Herbal Products

[Nyx]

Someone mentioned *herbal products* that give off feminine hormones in a previous thread. I would like more information about that. Information about their effectiveness, the potential dangers, potential side effects, if they have the same downsides as actual hormones (becoming sterile, for one). Has anyone in here used them? If so, I would like to hear what you have to say about your experience.

Thanks.

[LindaTS]

Hi Nyx,
I've been taking herbal products for about 18 months now and for me they are working, but very slowly. The reason that I can't take hormones is because of a medical problem. I have to say that herbal products don't work for everyone. I believe that the one thing that's helped me is that I started with a very low level of testostorene and even with that I take a blocker with the herbal things. They are expensive in the long run and without any gaurantees it may not be worth it to you. After all this time I'm a 36A+ but I'm still growing. A good place to start is www.myevanesce.com. Take a look and go from there. Oh yes, for problems. The liver has to process these things and that can be a problem. My doctor checks mine every six months. If I can be of any more help IM or e-mail me direct. lindma123@hotmail.com Good luck.

[crispy]

there is lots of discussion in the transsexual forum.

but if you are serious you should visit one of the other websites that run forums dedicated to transitioning like Trannyweb or Transgender Board. Google for them.

[Danielle1960]

Herbals work fine for me and I would recomend them for a start. Good luck, if you need details, PM me.
Danielle :)

[jennifer31191]

i am also interested in the hormones how much do they cost/how fast do they work?

[Nyx]

i am also interested in the hormones how much do they cost/how fast do they work?

From what I saw, synthetic hormones cost about $100 per month. They can take a few years to be fully effective, but you will see changes after a few months only.

[crispy]

i am also interested in the hormones how much do they cost/how fast do they work?
patches cost me $30 a month and I got some growth in 2 months. Any more would be obvious under my boy clothes. Estrogen only.

[Nyx]

patches cost me $30 a month and I got some growth in 2 months. Any more would be obvious under my boy clothes. Estrogen only.

Where did you buy them? Did you keep taking them? Got a prescription? Did it make you sterile?

[JOANNE]

This is a TS thread sisters and there is plenty of information about hormones on other sites. If you take oestrogen long enough you will become sterile. I was previously taking evanesce/feminol but switched to hop pellets 3 months ago because of the cost. There is a group on Yahoo named T-Girls-on Hops.
I am more than satisfied.

Hugs
Joanne

[Danielle1960]

I was discussing with a doctor the other day about the time for hormones to work. His answer was basically 2+ years to completely accomplish the goal. As I understand it when you start taking them you'll start a 2nd puberty and develope accordingly. Of course the curses of the big male frame, beard, body hair will more than likely stay with you and have to be dealt with by conventional means.

My use of the herbal stuff has been great. I'm 1 year into using the stuff I take and I've develope enough that it is getting hard to keep it hidden. After the end of 2 years on herbal though, I think I'll shift over to a monitor hormone regime. If I decide I might get an orchedectomy too. Still undecided on that.
Danielle

[Davena]

Where did you buy them? Did you keep taking them? Got a prescription? Did it make you sterile?

You can buy Estrogen patchs without a prescription...
http://www.inhousedrugstore.com/transgender/climara-t.html

And you can purchase progesterones for breast development without a prescription...
http://www.inhousedrugstore.com/transgender/prometrium-t.html

This is excellent androgen blocker that you can buy overseas but the USA is kinda funny about we TS girls importing it...
http://www.inhousepharmacy.com/transgender/aldactone-t.html

[Nyx]

You can buy Estrogen patchs without a prescription...
http://www.inhousedrugstore.com/transgender/climara-t.html

And you can purchase progesterones for breast development without a prescription...
http://www.inhousedrugstore.com/transgender/prometrium-t.html

This is excellent androgen blocker that you can buy overseas but the USA is kinda funny about we TS girls importing it...
http://www.inhousepharmacy.com/transgender/aldactone-t.html

Progesterone for breast development, does that have the same kind of adverse effects on the virility as estrogen?.

[Davena]

Progesterone for breast development, does that have the same kind of adverse effects on the virility as estrogen?.

It shouldn't... It doesn't affect the estro/testosterone balance..

[Nyx]

It shouldn't... It doesn't affect the estro/testosterone balance..

Hmm, how come there aren't more people taking it then?

[Davena]

Hmm, how come there aren't more people taking it then?

Maybe they don't know? My personal advice to CD's and anyone who thinks they are TS but not sure... Don't start HRT, it can be dangerous, and if you DIY like me... First, find a doctor and have the following test -

CBC - to detect anemia and other illnesses (undetected infections, leukemia)
Hg-A1c, necessary to know if you have diabetes or propensity to suffer it.
DHEA-S, indicator of your androgen production.
Free T, not necessary but good to know antiandrogen you will need.
Thyroid test, important before starting HRT.
A liver panel, if you have a history of cyrrhosis, hepatitis or other liver diseases.

Then you will need to get a benchmark blood test every 3 months for the first year. Your liver and potasium have to be monitored, in addition to your T and E levels.

[Nyx]

I just want to know two things:

1. Can progesterone make breast grow? If so, is it as efficient as estrogen?
2. What are the possible adverse effects on mascule equipment? I don't have any of the diseases you describe.

[janedoe311]

I have done lots of research in this. Progesterone is the "main" female hormone for lactation. Enough of it will develop the milk glands and will cause some breast growth depending on how much you have to start with. All my research has shown that it does not effect male fertility ie male equipment.

Estrogen on the other hand is the main female hormone with will "shut off" male hormones. After a month of estrogen sperm production will drop, more it will stop and stopping estrogen will not start the male hormones again, (I do not know why or if taking male hormones with get them started again.) I read on letter from a doctor saying that if you take estrogen for a month then take a couple of months off you might be able to avoid the total feminization of your boy parts.

If you want breasts. Here goes. Brava, http://www.brava.com/ it is the only FDA approved vacuum bra that increases breast size with a vacuum and is $2000 and by prescription only. One has to wear it 10 hours a day, some sleep on their back with it. It is two domes with a small vacuum pump, not something you would ware to a formal ball! I have seen used ones on ebay that sold for $900. The sellers said that they worked so well that they did not need them anymore. The other method is to enlarge your nipples with the suction cups from a snake bite kit, it works. Then get larger suction cups larger that you areola to enlarge the areola and nipple at the same time. Do a search for squeeze bulb vacuum, suction cups etc. Stay away from breast enlargement sites. You will find vacuum domes and squeeze bulbs vacuums on lab and science supply sites as well as the Chinese suctions cup treatment. The possibility of progesterone cream applied to the breast actually getting to the milk glands and enlarging them is rare but using a cream first will make seal the vacuum and hold it. Progesterone cream can be purchased at health supplement sites for hormone balance for both males and females. (Males and females both need both hormones for good health and they both drop with age.) You can use a breast pump sold on ebay for $10 to $20, as well, but do not pay the usually $40 for it. They are simply a dome squeeze bulb (like a blood pressure gauge) and hose that one can buy “off the rack”. Do not pump till it hurts it will damage the tissue. Do it every day, it is best to do it more that once a day and for at least 1 hour a sitting, not easy if you a married and hiding your Gynecomastia, (the name for breast growth on men). The reason it works is the same reason straining your muscles makes bigger muscles. Your body makes the tissue grow when it is being stressed; it “thinks” that will stop the stress. Some herbal pills and creams say they do not effect male fertility like Natureday at http://www.natureday.com/ and Wondercream, http://www.sflintl.com/, I asked these two about male fertility and received an email answer. Do not know if they work. Search for breast enhancement reviews. You will find sites not selling products that have letters from people and their own analyses from reader surveys. In any case expect months to see any change, and not everything will work on everyone that is why the breast enhancement companies get in trouble as well as not honoring guarantees and make unreasonable claims. In the end you should have female looking breasts without “loosing” your boy part. The vacuum will not develop the glands. The herbal pills or creams will not make the nipples look like a woman’s. Only estrogen and progesterone injections will do that, from what I have found. Using the vacuum on the nipples then the areola will make them larger creating a similar appearance. Do not know if the nipple and areola will keep the size when you stop pumping. (One other thing I read about a couple that had the prospective father use a breast pump for milk for a couple of months and then started lactation so he could give his wife a break with the breast feeding! Trying to talk my wife into letting me do this with our next baby! This would develop the milk glands but once the breast feeding is stopped they will shrink but not to the original size.)

I do not know how much length your nipple with gain; it will make it wider, from personal experience. Good luck.

[Nyx]

Progesterone could be an interesting option then. Perhaps one month of estrogen and progesterone ;) And then progesterone alone.

[crispy]

I have done lots of research in this. Progesterone is the "main" female hormone for lactation. Enough of it will develop the milk glands and will cause some breast growth depending on how much you have to start with. All my research has shown that it does not effect male fertility ie male equipment.

Estrogen on the other hand is the main female hormone with will "shut off" male hormones. After a month of estrogen sperm production will drop, more it will stop and stopping estrogen will not start the male hormones again, (I do not know why or if taking male hormones with get them started again.) I read on letter from a doctor saying that if you take estrogen for a month then take a couple of months off you might be able to avoid the total feminization of your boy parts.

.
that is not consistent with my own experience of 2 months on estrogen, and the advice given on so many hormone information sites.

It takes many months or even years on a comprehensive hormone regime for irreversible changes to the male genitalia (i.e. sterility).

You have not mentioned anti-androgens which are an entirely different kettle of fish.

I don't believe that estrogen by itself will have much, if any, effect on testosterone levels.

[janedoe311]

I just read this on FAQ pages, written by doctors. I am sure it is different for everyone. Just do not assume that there will be no effect on male fertility after a few months of any hormones. I did not get into the anti stuff because I felt that there was not enough research on them, ie side effects, also do not be so impatient. Too much estrogen and/or drastic change in hormones can cause many problems, (like cancer), that you can look up. Some TS girls are too impatient and take too much and end up in the emergency room, (it happens in SF a lot.) I know the desire to have breasts, is strong, but be patient and do not assume it is reversible. I read on web sites that doctors said that two months or so of estrogen shots will cause the tentacles to shrink and will slowly stop producing testosterone, if it is much longer than that, never saw the same thing about progesterone shots. They also say the testosterone level will not come back if the shots are stopped! I assume the best way is a balance of both female hormones. FYI: taking hormones orally is considerably less effective than shots. The digestive system will break down most of it, sublingual, is the better oral way to get you hormones levels up.

[Sierra]

I have been using estrogens and progesterones for 5+ years,besides vacuum domes.If you reseached well you would know they use it for castration in sex offenders.Most people use synthetic forms called progestins like "Provera" ,I read this 5+ years ago so forgive my spelling of medroxyprogesterone or levonorgestrel both are more comonly used in hrt or bcp.They make a big differance in the firmness and gland engorment of breast.I've also used micronised progesterone and all forms do adversely affect virility..positively so I only use them in small doses.I back off on the hormones when it makes me limp and last night my wife enjoyed a good manly ride on my boy thing,and I still pull out before looseing a full normal size load.Spontanous erections are much less but happen sometimes[like 1 today] while looking and touching my breast.I dont mean to be rude,just think many folks are miss informed and could find a balance of control of virility.