What does it mean to be on "Gender Spectrum"

[Carin]

Sometimes it all makes sense to me. Sometimes none of it does.

For each individual it is going to be different, depending on where they fit on the spectrum at any point in time, and how well they understand their self. I am not trying to pigeon-hole anyone, nor am I trying to get on a labels bandwagon.

How can you parse out gender identity from the rest of the chaos? What exactly is Gender Identity anyway? I found a good start in Wikipedia Gender Identity, though it is easy to get lost if you dig deep there. Add sexual preference (when dressed and/or not dressed), socially expected gender roles, (percieved (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65443) - thank you Wickanne) relationship values and expectations, upbringing, fashion. It starts to sound like a fruitcake recipe.

Of course you can say "You are what you are, enjoy it". OK, if you can. Yet the turmoil goes on. We are (rightfully) concerned about the impact on our children if they are to find out. The SO will (rightfully) resent the lack of truthfulness. Yet what is the truth. I am a crossdresser! Is that it? I can only tell you what has happened, because that is the only factual information I have. I can not tell you why. I can not tell you how it happened in meaningful terms because it did not happen in discrete logical increments. When did I change from someone who had put an 'odd' article of clothing for the fun of it, to being a transgendered person. Fact: I pushed agreed boundaries. Why: something inside me needed to go there but I don't know why.

In practice, we find out what is right for us by doing it, and it feels right, in spite of of all of our fears - real and perceived.

So how do we fit on the gender spectrum? Is an M2F CD trying to emulate being a woman, or it that emulation the closest fit (s)he can find in reality to being on the gender spectrum because any other reality is too hard to define? Do we confuse femininity with womanhood (being female, having female anatomy)? Or is that part of the spectrum for TG in general - not just the TS in specific who does desire womanhood?

So many questions. I think I think too much :thinking:. I am what I am, somewhere on that spectrum. Society is what it is. I guess I will have to make do with that for now.

Sorry if I have confused you. Thank you for bearing with me. It is human nature to question what is. Any :2c: welcome.

[Val702]

I haven't gone digging for this stuff. But I know where I stand as an individual. I am a crossdresser. That's it. Beyond that I fit the profile of a regular heterosexual dude, even though I probably spelled it wrong. I love the feeling of a woman in my hands. I also love to tase what it is like to be that woman. But just a taste. I mostly am in love with the fashion. Women get all the fun!

[Hippy Chic's Chick]

We're all on a gender spectrum.

You can't equate gender with genetic sex, it's something else entirely.

Genetically, HC is a male and I'm female. But I'll bet I'm further along the male gender spectrum than for instance my sisters and I'll put money on HC being more on the female gender side than I am. ;)

Sex and gender are not linked, unfortunatley, we use the same terms to describe both and have this weird opinion that it follows that they are the same thing.

[Billie1]

What exactly is Gender Identity anyway?

My take is that my identity is my unique result on experiences and expectations, with a recognation and respect of the same for others. The concept of 'Gender' is only one component of those.

When did I change from someone who had put an 'odd' article of clothing for the fun of it, to being a transgendered person.

I don't think you 'changed' ... I don't think I did.

So how do we fit on the gender spectrum?

In a wonderful place where we can express, with freedeom, our nature. Remember, man (woman) can create his (her) own emotional prisons.

[Wickanne GG]

You are most welcome cutie. I am happy to see your post because you're asking questions and not really ready to just "make do" for right now; use the forums and find some answers. :hugs:

:love:
Wickanne

[Toyah]

The best bet is not to start with Wickpedia it can be changed and is by those who have an agenda so the definitions there are at best biased !!!
I am a CD a guy who happens to like female clothing thats the end of it really, I try to do the best I can but I am still a guy and always will be

[Val702]

We're all on a gender spectrum.

You can't equate gender with genetic sex, it's something else entirely.

Genetically, HC is a male and I'm female. But I'll bet I'm further along the male gender spectrum than for instance my sisters and I'll put money on HC being more on the female gender side than I am. ;)

Sex and gender are not linked, unfortunatley, we use the same terms to describe both and have this weird opinion that it follows that they are the same thing.
Waitaminute. So this is saying that you are a woman wearing the pants. And your man is a man in a dress. Ok. I like you signature. If that is actauly your attitude, I would totaly work with that. I love doing house chores dressed up! And I used to obey my wife completely when dressed up.

[Deborah Jane]

The best bet is not to start with Wickpedia it can be changed and is by those who have an agenda so the definitions there are at best biased !!!
I am a CD a guy who happens to like female clothing thats the end of it really, I try to do the best I can but I am still a guy and always will be

Yep, that about sums me up too!!!

[Melanie R]

I think "Gender Spectrum" goes from the person who only wears a pair of panties infrequently to a person who crossdresses alone infrquently to a person who crossdresses and goes out in public to the person who is TG and lives full time as a woman without surgery to someone who is post op TS. You could change that term to "TG Spectrum". For many the Gender Spectrum is a continuum. Many begin with only wearing the panties or another article of clothing and then move to adding more items of feminine attire up to the time of completely dressing. That person may one day come to the realization that s(he) always wanted to be a woman and go through transition to become a woman.

[MarinaTwelve200]

Unfortunately, its not as simple as a single line continuum or a spectrum. Not only are we dealing with a "gender identity" spectrum, but also a sexuality spectrum that is seprate from that---so you can get a lot more variances than with a single spectrun---say Gay with a masculine Gender or femining gender idenity for example, and this may apply to either biosex. To further complicate matters, Bi-sexuality is starting to appear to be a different kind of sexuality in its own right, rather some zone half way between homo and hetro.

Then where does TRANSSEXUALITY fit in this thin---it dosent , TS, is its own "condition" which may be have to be considered along with all of the above.

Then we have the fetishes, the "escapisims", the CD based S/M and the simple "thrill seekers" and "tabboo breakers", that may have NOTHING to do with any of the above.

People from all these areas Cross Dress as a response to their unique condition---its something they Do, not what they ARE, and each CD for different reasons depending on the different "settings" above.

[Satrana]

Do we confuse femininity with womanhood (being female, having female anatomy)?

If the question is about specifically about crossdressers and not TG/TS then the answer is yes. And that is a major problem for CDs. Because it is so difficult to define exactly what we are feeling and want to achieve, we end up resorting to a simplistic catch-all phrase "I want to be a woman". And when that statement is made to anyone else who is not a CD, usually our SOs, the statement is quite definitive, it leaves no wiggle room. And the response is usually equally definitive "You can't be a woman, because you are a man"

Society is busy conditioning us to be the perfect man or woman. We are all lead to believe that if only we could reach the dizzying heights of perfection, we would be blissfully happy and the world would be at our feet. The problem is this is all just advertising hype. Gender is a social construct, it is an artificial ideal that nobody ever attains. It is a mirage on the horizon that we will spend a lifetime marching towards but will never reach. We will always be imperfect.

IMO, where CDs take the wrong turn is resorting to "I want to be a woman". What they should be saying is "I want to be ME".

Wanting things which appeal to us or wanting to behave or express ourselves in a pleasing manner is normal human behavior. It is what we all do all day long. We want what everyone else has and can do. We want access to the same freedoms, the same experiences, the same goods as everyone else. What we don't need to do is to switch gender to achieve this.

For me, the idea that you need to switch gender is indicative of someone who has yet to break free of the cisgendered rules of society. Listen up, you don't need to follow these rules. Also it is indicative of someone who believes that anything inbetween male and female is abnormal or undesirable. No it is not. Don't listen to prejudice and hype.

Women (in liberal environments) are already leading a transgendered lifestyle. They reached this point via a different route that that being traveled by CDs, namely feminism and equality rights. Women take the elements of masculinity that appeal to them, and leave behind those elements that do not appeal. How much masculinity they express depends on them. Although a few feminists did declare that women had to act like men to achieve equality, most women paid lip service to that idea. They defined themselves not by conforming to gender ideals but by creating new definitions of womanhood that reflected who they were i.e. "I am ME."

IMO, this is what CDs should be doing, defining new definitions of ourselves that reflect who we are rather than chasing after impossible ideals of femininity. It is OK to do that for fun if we are just responsible for ourselves, but if we want others to understand and accept us then we have to come up with better answers.

[christina marie]

to me it means that i am just a little bit more interesting than your average joe type guy. more opportunities to enjoy life. a chance to know my wife a little better by putting myself in her shoes(not literally,their too small;) ) and then theres the matter of all these pretty clothes... all in all not a bad place to be!

[Carin]

Nicely put Satrana.




Originally Posted by Carin
Do we confuse femininity with womanhood (being female, having female anatomy)?
If the question is about specifically about crossdressers and not TG/TS then the answer is yes.
...
IMO, where CDs take the wrong turn is resorting to "I want to be a woman". What they should be saying is "I want to be ME".

While it may not fit across the spectrum, your response fits very well for me. If I try to be a woman "Who I am" is still not in sync with "What I do". I have just exchanged one discord for another. Finding that equilibrium that is 'Me" without resorting to the binary gender definitions, and pulling that off in my own environment, I believe that is my goal.

[susan2067]

Melanie has made a good point. It is such a wide spectrum that things get confused when we try to apply labels.

I think maybe most of us are on a journey. For me it has been that unknown driver that makes you try on your sister's clothes, as you get older the erotic attraction, and then later it's an overwhelming need to reach this other part of you.

OK, so I have a femme name, but I have never felt that Susan was another person or my alter ego. I don't think it has ever been a real attempt to emulate womanhood, or even femininity, it's more being that softer, gentler and feminine side of who I am. Being dressed allows me to live that other dimension of the whole me.

Like Satrana says - "I want to be ME".

Susan

[renee99]

I think "Gender Spectrum" goes from the person who only wears a pair of panties infrequently to a person who crossdresses alone infrquently to a person who crossdresses and goes out in public to the person who is TG and lives full time as a woman without surgery to someone who is post op TS. You could change that term to "TG Spectrum". For many the Gender Spectrum is a continuum. Many begin with only wearing the panties or another article of clothing and then move to adding more items of feminine attire up to the time of completely dressing. That person may one day come to the realization that s(he) always wanted to be a woman and go through transition to become a woman.

So, on this spectrum, where would a guy who enjoys wearing panties -- and that is all -- be, compared to a guy who fantasizes about being a real woman but never acts in any way outside the definition of masculine?

[Charleen]

I gotta ask- does it actually matter? I thought Melanie hit it on the head. This is a far flung community encompassing the whole spectrum as she pointed out.
I have gone past the "why" to I am. I have gone past "what" to knowing and accepting who I am inside. Labels don't mean diddley. I could list all the outward characteristics of me, yet you would not be any closer to knowing who I am except superficially.
Instead of trying to put EVERYTHING and EVERYONE in a box, why don't try to work on acceptance of who we are and those around us as well?

[Melanie R]

So, on this spectrum, where would a guy who enjoys wearing panties -- and that is all -- be, compared to a guy who fantasizes about being a real woman but never acts in any way outside the definition of masculine?

I would think that in both examples they are at the beginning of the gender spectrum. I think we need to accept everyone who is on the gender spectrum. How many of us started with a pair of panties as an adolescent and now crossdress completely and go out in public. This is the "gender continuum".

[WendyCD]

Thank you carin for starting this wonderful thread! Satrana, wish I could have used words like yours to express the often un-expressable. These discussions resonate...

:2c:
Within this thread poles of spectrum has been defined as "male/female", "man/woman", "masculine/feminine". It was also pointed out that these may be separate (but perhaps not so distinct...) spectra. I'd like to say more on that, but words would fail me and I'd sound idiotic...

It was suggested that a female may move along the spectrum to try equalize her influence on society (politically, financially, etc...hope I got that right!) to that of males.

I bet many who belong to this forum don't see that as necessary, as do many powerful, yet, unmistakably "feminine", females clearly, do... and, have always... And because power - politically, financially, interpersonally - in western culture, is seen as good - females who adopt male attributes - dress, for example:D,are not so overtly stigmatized.

Do females who move between the poles ("masculine/feminine") experience the inner dysphoria and self loathing that (many) males do as they cross between?

Please forgive me if my post is too far off topic...

WendyCD

[Lilith Moon]

Unfortunately, its not as simple as a single line continuum or a spectrum. Not only are we dealing with a "gender identity" spectrum, but also a sexuality spectrum that is seprate from that---so you can get a lot more variances than with a single spectrun---say Gay with a masculine Gender or femining gender idenity for example, and this may apply to either biosex. To further complicate matters, Bi-sexuality is starting to appear to be a different kind of sexuality in its own right, rather some zone half way between homo and hetro.

Then where does TRANSSEXUALITY fit in this thin---it dosent , TS, is its own "condition" which may be have to be considered along with all of the above.

Then we have the fetishes, the "escapisims", the CD based S/M and the simple "thrill seekers" and "tabboo breakers", that may have NOTHING to do with any of the above.

People from all these areas Cross Dress as a response to their unique condition---its something they Do, not what they ARE, and each CD for different reasons depending on the different "settings" above.

Absolutely ! I would add another factor...many of us have a *mixture* of several of the assorted collection of conditions and preferences that you mentioned. People are complex, almost too complex to be classified, there is no single "spectrum".

:2c:

[sterling12]

The first problem is: "Whether or not you are going to buy into the idea of a TG or Gender Spectrum?" Many people within our community do not accept this idea, they go out of their way to separate themselves from TS People, Drag Queens, fetish crossdressers, or whatever. You take your pick, and you will find someone who will say: "I'm not like those ______'s. I am a _______. And so I'm different."

On the other hand, there are a lot of people like myself who believe that we are all, "going down that same road, just at different places along the road." Some of us go so far and STOP. Other's go further, it may take them years, it may happen quickly, or it may never happen.

So, I think your question is how do you decide where you are located along that spectrum? Surprize, you get to decide! I can't tell you where your head is at, nor can anyone else.

Sometimes, it really helps to just consider yourself in a transitory state. Voila...no pressure. Maybe you will get something decided tomorrow, maybe not ever.

Peace and Love, Joanie

[renee99]

I would think that in both examples they are at the beginning of the gender spectrum. I think we need to accept everyone who is on the gender spectrum. How many of us started with a pair of panties as an adolescent and now crossdress completely and go out in public. This is the "gender continuum".

What I meant is that one is thoroughly transgendered but just as thoroughly in denial, where the other one is transgendered very little if at all, but is completely comfortable with it. Are you placed on the spectrum/continuum based on what you acknowledge or express, or what your nature is? I guess that's what I was asking.

[Phyliss]

If the letter "A" = the perfect, ideal, straight male, and the letter "Z" = the perfect ideal straight female, then that leaves 24 other places where anyone of us can be at anytime, and we aren't "locked into" that particular place. In fact we may have to invent some new letters just for some groups, or single persons.
I guess it really doesn't matter to me where I am on this "SPECTRUM", within an hour from now I may very well have moved along either forward or backward, depending on outside influences.

At this precise second I know exactly how I feel and where I would "place" myself on any kind of line drawn from "A" to "Z"
If I have to explain it, you wouldn't understand, if you understand, then I don't have to explain it.
One thing I've learned is that: I refuse to allow OTHERS to tell me how to live. Having said that, I fully realize there are "rules of polite society" that really should be followed, and I do. There is also much latitude in those rules.

[Rachel Morley]

I don't usually think too much about this because it's quite complicated, very personal, and what does it really matter anyway. But IMHO we are all on the gender spectrum (somewhere) but in my case, it means that I don't think or feel that I am in a place that fits either "box A" or "box B".

Genetically, I am male but I don't feel like what we're told by society media etc males are supposed to think and feel like. All the things I identify with are usually associated with being female. I think gender expression means expressing on the outside what you feel on the inside. Gender is your internal sense of how masculine or feminine you feel you are in your consciousness. It's got nothing to do with you body but more to do with the sex of your brain.

[Carin]

Absolutely Rachael, it is quite complicated and personal. The concept I am really working on is "What does it mean TO ME to be on 'Gender Spectrum'" No one else can answer that. But opening up the general question allows me to learn or understand more as a result of other peoples, opinions and expressions. Which I did, and I thank you all for you great posts. That is forum in action.

As for "what does it matter..". Well, the answer to the real question (What does it mean TO ME...) will impact other important people, such as my SO, my children, their friends, our friends etc. in a significant way, and that impact is getting closer. I don't need to explain or justify myself to the whole world. But here are a few that deserve a little more.


I don't usually think too much about this because it's quite complicated, very personal, and what does it really matter anyway. But IMHO we are all on the gender spectrum (somewhere) but in my case, it means that I don't think or feel that I am in a place that fits either "box A" or "box B".