Where do they get the wrong view about CD and TG people?

[Maggie Kay]

I have seen some TV and movie refs about the subject in comedies and such but where does the sinister aspect of the misconceptions come from? Other than the "Birdcage" which I think really doesn't portray gays or CDers accurately, what other sources are there that causes the average person to instantly react that CDer's are gay or child molesters or mentally ill? ( Quick point: I am not equating gays with these other labels, but others do) Is this something that is universally taught to children by parents? My mother didn't ever talk about crossdressing. We didn't know anyone that was doing it. I don't even remember it being discussed or spoken of in Church and I was a fundamentalist Christian. They condemned just about every activity that humans do i.e. dancing, drinking, premarital sex gluttony etc. But not CDing or TS people. Just about every example I can remember and thanks to DVDs examine again of TV and movies show it as being embarrassing in a comedic setting. So where do people come up with the wrong ideas?

[Joy Carter]

No big mystery Kay. Television and movie comics have done it to get a laugh. And since thespians have been a source of entertainment. Sex is the biggie. If a guy dresses a female he must be gay.
Allot of myth out there about everything because of a lack of knowledge.:2c:

[karynspanties]

Log onto this site and see some of the poeple who dress in costumes or outfits such as ballerinas,wedding dresses or sissy types of outfits. Personally I think that does our cause alot of harm. Just my opinion.

[Lissa Stevens]

People fear, mock and vilify what they don't understand.

[Toyah]

Log onto this site and see some of the poeple who dress in costumes or outfits such as ballerinas,wedding dresses or sissy types of outfits. Personally I think that does our cause alot of harm. Just my opinion.


You just cannot split one section off and say its wrong, hell you are hitting out in exactly the way that society does. You just cannot say things like I dont like this form of CDing it makes us look bad, bloody hell I am angry you are using exactly the same divisive narrow minded crap that you are complaining about just stop and think what you are saying IE I dont like CDing of this type!!!! just get rid of the this type and you are saying its only ok to CD the way I do shit go join the women's institute or sing in the woman's choir just don't spill your vitriol here :thumbsdn:
Where do they get their views ???? from people like you !!!!!!!!!!

[Maggie Kay]

I was not aiming at the obvious answers to the question but a deeper source. If I decided that wearing a lamp shade as a hat would I get the same kinds of reactions? If I went to business meetings in overalls instead of a suit, would they think I am a molester? I don't understand economics yet, I don't vilify people that do. I was thinking about perhaps a deep seated primal fear as a possible cause. Is there something about CDing that scares people at a visceral level and they simply associate it with other fears?

[Julie York]

Personally I think that does our cause alot of harm. Just my opinion.

Whose cause?



But anyway, to the thread...
People attribute evil to things they fear and they fear them because they don't understand them.

That ugly woman with the cleft pallet is of course a witch.
The foreigner must have killed the local blind man because...well he's a foreigner dammit. Who else could it be?
The transvestite MUST molest children and murder women because.....well because they.....because they're sick o.k.


And so on.

[crunchysoda]

I agree that a lot of it comes from the media and add to that, people fear what they do not know, what is "different" than them.

Also I think women in general have been sexualized since the beginning of beginnings and have been seen as the "lesser" sex.

So mix that w/a man dressing like the above and well it's "easy" to see how CDing can be promoted as something "sexually deviant."

I am still learning what it means for MY bf to be a CD'er. I have at least known some very basic ideas of what CD'ers were but I too was fearing that he might be bi/gay. Which is fine if that's what he wanted, but that's not what *I* signed up for.

I knew from the get go he wasnt a child molester or anything like that though.
He's a good person, that will never change.

[Zee]

Honestly, I think people fear what they do not understand. And a lot of people do not understand people like us. They joke about us, use religion agaist us, and are plain cruel towards us because they can not (or will not) understand. A lot of people have this kind of attitude. If if does not fit within their paradigm of normalcy, they will judge us arbitrarily and use what ever tool they have at their disposal to make themselves feel more comfortable.

Those who do understand, or are accepting of people like us, do not have these preconceived notions and are willing to look at the person within rather than the person (as others see it) without.

[Sasha Anne Meadows]

try the movie Just Like a Woman circa 1995

[Maggie Kay]

I see a couple of misunderstandings out there that seem apparent.
First, the public in general doesn't understand gay men and that they generally go for male figures not female. So a CDer in femme is not a typical gay attraction.
Second, while there is sexually provocative dressing for women and for CDers, too. What about the CDer that only wants to be dressed in non provocative attire? The casual everyday wear of a woman not out to lure a mate? Many CDers choose this style yet are treated the same way.

[az_azeel]

Log onto this site and see some of the poeple who dress in costumes or outfits such as ballerinas,wedding dresses or sissy types of outfits. Personally I think that does our cause alot of harm. Just my opinion.


Your opinion is noted... but do you mean this forum or have you forgot a link to another site... If by this site you mean then I suggest you open your eyes c/ders come in all shapes and forms and not the typical stereotype.. I for one do not even come close to looking like a woman but that does not stop me wearing womans clothes, whatever I choose if I want to wear a wedding dress or anything else i choose, its my choice... and as it is for so many others on this site... there are many deep-rooted reasons for dressing and support is whats needed not ridicule.

[Deborah Jane]

Your opinion is noted... but do you mean this forum or have you forgot a link to another site... If by this site you mean then I suggest you open your eyes c/ders come in all shapes and forms and not the typical stereotype.. I for one do not even come close to looking like a woman but that does not stop me wearing womans clothes, whatever I choose if I want to wear a wedding dress or anything else i choose, its my choice... and as it is for so many others on this site... there are many deep-rooted reasons for dressing and support is whats needed not ridicule.

I agree, we are all different, so live and let live. The last thing we need is discrimination on here!!

[Kieron Andrew]

Where? the media of course

[christina marie]

3 words... Jerry,Jerry,Jerry

[sterling12]

As young children, Mom and Dad always warned us about Strangers! By inference...Stranger has "Strange," as it's root. And so, someone who isn't inside the sexual norms, is by definition a Stranger to all "The Normal People," and is by definition strange.

Most folks believe all those lessons they get when they are young. They have them reinforced by stereotyping, public institutions, their peer groups, and their families.

UNTIL, someone or something comes along and upsets The Apple Cart and wrecks all the perceptions. Then a thinking person has to reevaluate. Example: I have seen dozens of wives come to Tri-Ess Meetings, bitter, angry, and completely at odds with their Hubby's little hobby. After they start to talk to others, actually meet other CD's, interact with The Community, and learn about things.....the majority have to drop their old perceptions and rethink their whole situation. Usually, The Rethink comes out positive, and everybody gets a benefit.

It's the same thing with The General Public. That's why I urge our Community to start going out and interacting. Amazing how many folks will drop that idea of "weirdo," once they have actually met a genuine transgendered person.

Peace and Love, Joanie

[az_azeel]

Where? the media of course


Its always been a natural part of british humour... pantomime dames and things like Jack and the beanstock where jack is played by a female... is it no wonder we are all a form of crossdresser....

[Glenda58]

They get their ideas from us. When most of us go out where do we go the first time out. A Drag Show or a Gay Bar. You are who you associate with. Now I not saying this is bad because the way we are treated at those places is very good plus I have a few gay friends. But people see us coming out of places like that and assume that we're gay.

[flatlander_48]

The sad truth is that the accepted definitions of "normal" behavior are restrictive. If you fall outside of the accepted definitions, you are immediately suspect. Doesn't make any difference if you are gay man, heterosexual crossdresser, etc.

Consider how westerners tend to think about Asians. There is a very strong tendency to think of them as one group, but the reality is that Chinese are different from Japanese who are different from Koreans who are different from Taiwanese, etc. Often we take the easy way out and think of these groups as one monolithic culture, when in fact there are some similarities and also some BIG differences. In the same way it is easy to lump all GLBT folks together, when in fact we are distinctly unique.

I think the problem is, and why we often take the easy way out, is that if we lump everyone together we don't have to try to figure out how to interact appropriately with each group. We take one approach which means that it will right for some and wrong for some others.

[Karren H]

Dress the way you want to and let them think what they want... Who cares anyway... not me for sure!!! People will always have misconceptions about us mainly because there is no US... No single definable TG or TS or CD.... Too wide a spectrum for anyone to get a good reading on... imho....

Karren

[angelfire]

There are a number of reasons. As someone previously mentioned, women are viewed as the "weaker" sex. As a man, being of the "stronger" sex, why would one want to be "weaker"? I think this in and of itself baffles most people.

Then there is the obvious one: The media. Generally portrays us poorly, particularly jerry, which was mentioned, as an example.

And then there is the 'fear what you don't understand' argument, as also mentioned.

[Val702]

I think that people like me who are too skeerd to be open with people about this are part of the problem. And a society that is increasingly more uptight and ignorant. I find that most people would tolerate the presence of a guy crossdressed, but it is not generaly accepted or understood. When everyone els is gocking or snickering under their breath. I am looking on in envy. The fact is no real interesting and accurate examples of this or anyting els are presented by the media. Which has taken the role of a passive educator.

[sterling12]

Glenda is right! We should be going to places other than Gay Bars and Drag Shows. I personally prefer going out to Restaurants and Entertainment Venues that are "straight." I find that we often end up talking to folks, answering questions, and doing a lot of outreach.

However, I also think that Places frequented by The LGBT Community are also golden opportunity's for us. There is just about as much misperception among Gay Men and Women about us, as you get in the regular community. I have been studying some history lately and apparently the separation of Gay, Lesbian, and TG, is a relatively new phenomenon, since WW2. In the past, to avoid hassles from the law, just to have a friendly place to socialize, the 3 communities were more interrelated.

These days, we need to make all the friends we can find. I'm back to harping about "The Cause," again. And, Karen and others will probably say something along the lines of they don't give a damn about That Cause. But, for the rest of us I think it's wise to be friendly, answer questions, and convince EVERYONE we can, that we aren't "strangers with strange ways."

Peace and Love, Joanie

[Marcie's GG]

Did anyone watch All My Children this summer??

I didn't like how they portrayed Zoe...

What is everyone else's take on the show???

[lizbendalin]

I think that in this, there are no easy or quick answers, and I think that it may very well be a number of things that when combined create this situation.

One of the aspects that no one has yet mentioned is our tendency to divide everything into two categories: true/false, us/them, good/bad, gay/straight, male/female, married/single. Probably the first question every new parent is asked is, "Is it a boy or a girl?" As a society we have much difficulty when we encounter something that does not fit into our two column categorization of everything. Look at how we react to individuals who don't quite fit: bisexuals, intersex, swingers, political independents, I'll stop there before I say something to upset someone. Most people get upset, "You can't have it both ways." "Make up your mind." etc.

Another aspect is the role of social hierarchy and the status of men and women. For the last several thousand years, men have ruled the roost in most societies. This has had some interesting results in regards to non-conventional gender expression. Women have been regarding as second class citizens, while men have been first class. When a woman made the decision to be more masculine (or act in a more masculine manner), society treated it differently, she was trying to improve herself, get ahead etc; that is, as long as she was still a woman. Men on the other hand, when they took on more feminine traits, were voluntarily lowering themselves on the social ladder. Society asks, "Why would a man do this? They aren't gaining anything, so it must be for an evil purpose."

I do not want this to be read in any way as diminishing or belittling the battles that all of us face in our desire to express who we are. I fully recognize that both the FtM and the MtF face battles that are difficult, and neither battle is specifically easier than the other, just different.

:2c:

[Cara Allen]

I was not aiming at the obvious answers to the question but a deeper source. If I decided that wearing a lamp shade as a hat would I get the same kinds of reactions? If I went to business meetings in overalls instead of a suit, would they think I am a molester? I don't understand economics yet, I don't vilify people that do. I was thinking about perhaps a deep seated primal fear as a possible cause. Is there something about CDing that scares people at a visceral level and they simply associate it with other fears?

I think that there is an inherent cause (or causes.)

First of all, TG's threaten masculinity.
Secondly, untill recently, we were pretty rare, and information was even rarer. it was easy to generate a stereotype when none existed.
Third, women have had a second citizen status. Anyone male who wanted to be female, must be nuts! Can you imagine the "stay in your place" effect this has on women, too?

The first time I saw a crossdresser was when I was like, 10 years old. "Psycho." Can you imagine the guilt and fear I felt?

There was also "Silence of the Lambs." We took a major thrashing over that one. They tried to pay lip service to real TG's by saying that the killer was a TG wanna be, and this was not the typical TG. A quick one liner that no one ever heard, and I assume to avoid protest or litigation by GLT groups...

there was another one too... With Michael Caine as the crazy crossdresser... At least there were some (very few) positives in that one...

[Leah B]

You just cannot split one section off and say its wrong, hell you are hitting out in exactly the way that society does. You just cannot say things like I dont like this form of CDing it makes us look bad, bloody hell I am angry you are using exactly the same divisive narrow minded crap that you are complaining about


SHe didn't say it was wrong, she says it does the cause harm, and I'm not sure I disagree.

I guess it comes down to this: are you flaunting a fetish? Because generally folks are don't want to hear about other people's sexual lives. I've had my share of sissy and BDSM fantasies, but it's generally out of place to bring it up in normal conversation. I don't think it's any more appropriate when people talk about who they banged last night (which happens more than it should, and is every bit as irritating).

Now, sometimes the issue's murky. Few of us have had the blessing of a girlhood, and there can be a large non-sexual appeal to making up for that lost girlhood, and CD.com is a good safe space to get it out there.
But seriously, This ISN'T a sex forum, so if you're just coming here to brag about your latest conquest, whether it's your hot co-worker from cubicle 3b, or it's the japanese rope bondage technique you tried out last time, then yeah, you're not doing trans people any favors. This is America, land of the extremely uptight about sex. Trying to get a slip a fetish in with the larger trans agenda is just deep-sixing everything.

So here, yeah, there's a lot of leeway to discuss otherwise taboo topics. There are sissies, Dommes, and other "others" here I like, so far be it from me to say they should leave or shutup. But in the world at large, greater discretion is appreciated.

[Cara Allen]

try the movie Just Like a Woman circa 1995

Oh, that was a wonderful movie! Also, Transamerica, and Crying Game (sigh.)

Now look at THIS! I found this Transgender Movie Guide on the web. I had NO IDEA that there were so many movies with transgender issues represented!

http://members.fortunecity.com/jayekayetv/tmovies/

[Fab Karen]

People will always have misconceptions about us mainly because there is no US... No single definable TG or TS or CD.... Too wide a spectrum for anyone to get a good reading on... imho....

Karren

This is true of any group: You can't say "all black people are..." or "all white people are..." Ignorance combined with stereotypes fostered by people fearful of anything different leads to negative images, whether you're a CD, a black person, a middle aged white man, etc.
Many of us enjoy going out and hanging out where we can be with groups of our sisters & that's wonderful. We can also go out other places like other clubs where we aren't the majority, and restaurants & such. Experience helps to erase stereotypes.

[Ruth]

This is not exactly on-topic but what strikes me about the negative views of CDing is the tremendous power of clothing. Put on the clothing of the oposite sex and you are making an extreme statement. But why should this be? It's only clothing.
Clothing specifically designed for women is probably giving out a strong subliminal message. Is it all sex or is it social gender role? And if it's on the wrong person, why is this upsetting?
When I dress as Ruth I don't regard it as a sexual turn-on but there is a powerful effect on my personality and demeanour. And I guess it's going to have an unsettling effect on anybody else who can see what I'm doing.
I have no answers but it seems we're releasing powerful forces when we do this.

[Cara Allen]

This is not exactly on-topic but what strikes me about the negative views of CDing is the tremendous power of clothing. Put on the clothing of the oposite sex and you are making an extreme statement. But why should this be? It's only clothing.
Clothing specifically designed for women is probably giving out a strong subliminal message. Is it all sex or is it social gender role? And if it's on the wrong person, why is this upsetting?
When I dress as Ruth I don't regard it as a sexual turn-on but there is a powerful effect on my personality and demeanour. And I guess it's going to have an unsettling effect on anybody else who can see what I'm doing.
I have no answers but it seems we're releasing powerful forces when we do this.

I like that last business, Ruth. It is very much, on-the-money, I think. We have unlocked something, I agree. I don't know if it is because it is a societal taboo, but I think it's more. What does everyone else think? Whatever the case, it is almost mystic. Perhaps that was why transgendered people were revered in some societies?

[Maggie Kay]

Wow, great answers. I have mulled them over and come to a new level of understanding.
It seems that in spite of the feminist movement there is an asymmetry in the gender roles. Women still have a special position as the embodiment of sexuality. They are the core of what is the beautiful in art and media. A major difference exists for women's clothing than men's. It is not only functional but designed for attraction at some level. That level can range from overtly hot to classic and refined. Even a woman in a business suit has some component of her outfit that is to indicate beauty or that she is attractive. Let's not kid ourselves, lipstick is meant to define and enhance the lips by definition is sexual. The concept that it is much more than clothing then makes perfect sense. Therefore when a male wears women's clothing ( universally agreed that it is designed to attract men), it is understandable that he is assumed to be gay. Is it that the source of the strong feelings about CDing comes from an internal instinctive reaction that is unwelcome? Perhaps these strong feelings then also surface as rash statements like CDers are molesters or crazy. This makes more sense to me than media influence because it is at a universal level spanning every one of us.

For me I don't even consider how attractive I look to males. It is no where on the radar for me. Yet, my goal is to look pretty and then I would be attractive to males. I am doing it because I feel that I am female inside. I like it and I need to express it. CDing is how I express it.