The CD=Gay myth, an interesting twist

[MarinaTwelve200]

Listening to those news reports about that senator soliciting gay sex in public restrooms, and other men who do such things, it was speculated that many such men are in denyal of their homosexuality (or being Bisexual)
It then ocurred to me that there is an interesting "twist" to the public myth about CDs being "gay"----Many gay guys, especially those in denyal, think that if they DONT crossdress, then they are NOT gay.

Again this arises from the "ignorant" definition of homosexuality'' that we learmed from our peers in grade school that gay meant "A guy who wanted to be or thinks he is a woman" and dressed and acted as such. Too many people never bother to check it out from a proper source and even grow up into adulthood thinking that.---of course they later learn that GAYS have sex with other men (and a similar thing woman to woman), but its usually thought of as an adjunct to their original working definition, something gays ALSO do.

It is the reason that CDs are often equated with being gay by the general , uninformed public, but NOW we can see the other side of this Myth---Some can beleive that one can have gay sex and not be gay---so long as one does not do other "gay things" like Crossdress.---A very convinient cop-out, neglecting or missing the fact that gay sex IS what Homosexuality is all about, and crossdressing is not related to sexuality at all.

[Alaceann]

Good point. Well said.:hugs:

[Angie G]

Nice thread Marina you put that quite well :hugs:
Angie

[Toyah]

But crossdressing and sex are not mutually exclusive so why do we have to have ohhhh I dont do that mentality, maybe suppressed sexual anxiety ??
Sheesh stop thinking about the them and us thing and just get on with whatever you enjoy:happy:

[Deidra Cowen]

You did a nice job on this post sweetie. I agree with much of what you are saying.

It is funny that the great majority of guys out crusing in parks, restrooms and porn shops are actually married 'str8' guys. Yet they end up giving the gay community a bad reputation with the public.

Here in Atlanta once or twice a year they have big busts at parks or one of the porno theatres and haul off a bunch of guys. Gets lots of media attention...its just sad they can't come to terms with their sexuality and end up resorting to such dangerous activity which can kill them and/or wives, GFs from STDs or ruin their lives since they become a sexual offender.

Oh the public thinking CDs are gay...yes I know this drives you str8 girls crazy and indeed it is very common mispeception and most peoples first opinion is that CDs are gay.

I laugh sometimes out at the Clubs here in Atlanta. We get guys that are admirers that want to hit on the Tgirls. But well over half of our crew are straight...a good number more perhaps are bi yet only interested in other Tgirls. So these guys get frustrated that only a small minority of CDs at the clubs are even interested in guys.

[Patty]

Nice post Marina - well stated


Deidra - so true

[janet1234]

I wonder why the police sting that caught Sen. Craig was instituted. Ordinary harrassment or was the public restroom being abused by the gay community? I am concerned about entrapment.

[Georgette]

If the general public pictures the CD as being gay, then why do most gay couples seen on TV or news 1 or both of them have facial hair. That is a beard, oh how repulsive to be in a dress with a beard.:eek:

[MarinaTwelve200]

If the general public pictures the CD as being gay, then why do most gay couples seen on TV or news 1 or both of them have facial hair. That is a beard, oh how repulsive to be in a dress with a beard.:eek:

But those are GAY couples being shown on TV and the news---I think that this is a PC thing with networks, trying to show that GAYS can and do look "manly" rather than Fem or "swishy". Its a PR thing done for a "favored" group, gays. To break the "negative" (gays look like women) gay steriotype.

They are not that kind to CDs, most who are straight. The networks are content not to try to "break" the CD=gay steriotype, but the other way around.

Oh, there ARE CDs with beards---Repulsive to me too, but is a matter of taste and why an individual CDs. Obviously, the FACE part of the persona is not important to him, he is more body focused.---a variant of the CD who does not bother with makeup.----I, on the other hand, consider my made up face my "mask" and fem persona---the most important part.

[Rosaliy Lynne]

If the general public pictures the CD as being gay, then why do most gay couples seen on TV or news 1 or both of them have facial hair. That is a beard, oh how repulsive to be in a dress with a beard.:eek:

If you are gonna dress the part - at least get rid of the visible facial hair.

I well remember the first time I saw a man in a dress. I was visiting with my father (ward of the state at the time) and we were in the downtown section of Boston which came to be known as the combat zone. I was in grade school. As we walked up the street there was this woman on the other side of the street. Then as we passed I got a look at the front and she had this heavy flaming red beard.

ich!!

I shave my face as smooth as I can and keep my torso and legs relatively clear of hair too. I also wax my forearms and hands to get the excess guy hair off. That microwave wax stuff really is good for 7 or 8 weeks.

[PortiaHoney]

If the general public pictures the CD as being gay, then why do most gay couples seen on TV or news 1 or both of them have facial hair. That is a beard, oh how repulsive to be in a dress with a beard.:eek:

Lets please not offend those who are happy to be seen in a dress yet still retain their male persona. Not everyone in a dress is choosing to emulate a female..... It's a matter of choice.

It's not a matter of EEK, it's about personal choice.

[Roberta Lynn]

Lets please not offend those who are happy to be seen in a dress yet still retain their male persona. Not everyone in a dress is choosing to emulate a female..... It's a matter of choice.

It's not a matter of EEK, it's about personal choice.

:iagree: Absolutely right

IMHO if there were more men with beards wearing dresses we would all be more accepted.

[Violetgray]

.---A very convinient cop-out, neglecting or missing the fact that gay sex IS what Homosexuality is all about, and crossdressing is not related to sexuality at all.

You almost got it 100% correct. Keep in mind though that having gay sex does not make you gay. Wanting to have gay sex makes you gay. Gay men act in straight porn all the time, have sex with lots of women, it doesn't make them any straighter. Homosexuality isn't really about the sex, its the about the attraction that leads to it.

But other than that, spot on! :-)

[SirTrey]

:iagree: Absolutely right

IMHO if there were more men with beards wearing dresses we would all be more accepted.

My wife is Italian (and genetically male)...and She is VERY hairy....Too hairy to even fight it....When she dresses, I think she's sexy....hair and all....:)

[Robertacd]

I wonder why the police sting that caught Sen. Craig was instituted. Ordinary harrassment or was the public restroom being abused by the gay community? I am concerned about entrapment.

Basically the same sting as female cops posing as prostitutes.

Obviously they had enough complaints to run the sting in that area.

[Stephanie Blue]

Well I guess I am one of the freaks cause I love to have sex w/ both men and women. Especily when I dress it makes me want men and other t-girls even more. I live in Atlanta also and as Deidra stated (would love to meet you by the way)the parks,restrooms and porn shops are loaded w/ "st8" married men. It's a shame we can't all just get along. I wish bisexuality and homosexuality were widley accepted. Just like legalizing drugs. After a while nobody would notice anymore. Maybe I will come back as a woman in the next life. Until then I'll keep doing what I am doing. Steph

[DawnRodgers]

It seems that many of us are being very self=analytical, and even comdescendingly dismissive of some of us these days. I'm sure that, in thius group, as in every grouping of people, there are all kibds and in different stages of what we are (oir think we are). Hetrosexual, homosexual or whatever. In fact, if a man thinks like a woman and wants to be a woman, what sexuality is he if he is woth a woman, with a man. I know that there are GG's that wou;dn't even think of being sexual with their husbands when he is dressed as a woman. My wife is one. Says she has noi interest in being with a woman. That's OK with me and I understand it too. So does that make a GG who ius with a CD a lesbian? What about a CD who wants a man? Is he/she hetero- or homosexual? Some definitiopns are tough to get to. Frankly the mind plays a large part in how I feel. I find that when presenting as a man I am more like the stereotypical male and when Dawn I take on and present more as a female. In fact, I find, as time goes on, that Dawn is taking over more of my persona.
So it seems, that my life os ever changing as my experiences grow. Things I thought I was so sure of as a young man are, in many cases, the exact op[posite of what I think of them now. Life experience does change a person - at least most of us. Name calling and ostracizing others for their beliefs and ideals is not conducive to intelligent discussion. Especially if it is incidental and harms no one.

[sterling12]

I wonder why the police sting that caught Sen. Craig was instituted. Ordinary harassment or was the public restroom being abused by the gay community? I am concerned about entrapment.

Roberta kind of beat me to an answer, but I will amplify. Vice Cops are quite busy. They have more than a few places they could use to catch felons. Obviously, The Airport has had a problem and probably with this particular bathroom. Very likely it was a local "glory hole." No one will ever know if the Senator was in that bathroom because he knew about it's acquired status, or what?

Entrapment should not be your concern, unless you are hanging out in known "hotspots," and soliciting people. Then....you might get the attention of The Cops! Good rule of thumb...don't be like The Senator; looking under the stall, don't be making hand signals at other guys! Ain't it wonderful we can live in a country with such a load of hypocrisy!

Peace and Love, Joanie

[battybattybats]

But those are GAY couples being shown on TV and the news---I think that this is a PC thing with networks, trying to show that GAYS can and do look "manly" rather than Fem or "swishy". Its a PR thing done for a "favored" group, gays. To break the "negative" (gays look like women) gay steriotype.

They are not that kind to CDs, most who are straight. The networks are content not to try to "break" the CD=gay steriotype, but the other way around.


Actually there is a massive thing going on in the gay community, a gay friend was complaining about it recently. Gay culture is turning against camp and feminine gays. Gay singles ads mostly now apparently ask for 'manly men'. My friend thinks it's all about the new conservative and conformist movements in gay culture with people trying to be as 'normal' as possible to gain acceptance. Mind you there have always been very mucho gays, if one is attracted to men some wanting a 'manly' man makes sense.

Still a very feminine gay man came close to winning big brother australia this year.

[Tamara Croft]

The networks are content not to try to "break" the CD=gay steriotype, but the other way around.Well I'm going to be the one who has to say... well I agree!!! Judging by a hell of a lot of threads on this forum lately - have you been with a guy - want to be with a guy etc etc... they aren't far wrong are they eh? How can something be changed if it's flaunted so much on a CD forum?? :2c:

[Sugar]

I am bi and I like to wear women's clothing. I do not go out dressed to find a sexual partner. Especially not to try fool someone into thinking I was GG. I do not cruise parks or restrooms (that's gross) but to each his/her own. That's a risk that no one in their right mind should be taking part in. AIDS has not gone away and if you want to get arrested, you're taking a risk at that too.

Most of you girls seem to be nice but very opinionated, some of you come across as, well, constipated.

Just maybe a bit much on the PC (politically correct) thing.

I understand that most on here are trying to put a positive spin on the lifestyle(s) associated with this site. But I honestly think that the people you are trying to impress are pretty disgusting in their sexual appetites. Maybe that was a little overstated.

I can take an ass whooping but I don't like to be ignored...talk to me.


sugar

[Alex!]

The mixup is generally because most people don't know the difference between gender and sexuality.

For me, gender is a much, much more complex thing than sexuality. I think people add too much complexity to the latter at the expense of the former. In other words, more focus should be placed on gender and all that entails and stop trying to find so much mystery and intrigue in sex, which is premordial and basic even if enjoyable.

[janet1234]

Sugar,
I think they call it anal retentive.

[Jennaie]

I once encountered a woman here on the forums that stated: If my husband has sex with a man while he is dressed, it is heterosexual sex because he is thinking of himself as a female while he is having sex with the man.

Add one more twist to that rope.

[BarbaraTalbot]

It is funny that the great majority of guys out crusing in parks, restrooms and porn shops are actually married 'str8' guys. Yet they end up giving the gay community a bad reputation with the public.

...its just sad they can't come to terms with their sexuality

I laugh sometimes out at the Clubs here in Atlanta. We get guys that are admirers that want to hit on the Tgirls. But well over half of our crew are straight...a good number more perhaps are bi yet only interested in other Tgirls. So these guys get frustrated that only a small minority of CDs at the clubs are even interested in guys.


Good points in both Marina's OP and here about the problem being people not coming to grips with who they are. I was alluding to this in another thread (best not mentioned). I said that it seemed a little lonely to try to explore that side of oneself in a way that tended to be with married 'straight' men.

The phrase "Our Crew" cracked me up!! I had this image of t-girls piling out of '68 Impalas,or '40 Mercs six at a time, wearing festive bandannas.....

[Darlene Rochelle]

A lot of these types of men are sex addicts looking for another fix,why else would they engage in such risky behavior??:2c:

[Sugar]

Sugar,
I think they call it anal retentive.


:heehee: I really didn't want to use that description.

[Satrana]

Getting back to the mind games, there is a perfect example of how this works.

In male prisons there is a fair amount of sexual conquest ie rape. A heterosexual man entering prison, especially a young one, is often "requested" to perform sexual acts. If he "allows" himself to be violated then he is forever considered to be a homosexual and then is traded among the other inmates as a "bitch"

However the men doing the raping are never considered homosexual they are considered to be strictly heterosexual because the sexual acts are considered heterosexual. This is a very strange concept to grasp as clearly there is no way to crossdress in a prison to create the illusion that you are having sex with a female but this is exactly how it works.

So if men in prison can engage in clearly homosexual acts and still be perceived, not just by themselves but by everyone else around them, to be strictly heterosexual then this proves perception is everything.

[CaptLex]

Many gay guys, especially those in denyal, think that if they DONT crossdress, then they are NOT gay.
Where do you get this stuff?! :eek: I thought the fiction/stories section was further down. :rolleyes:

[MarinaTwelve200]

So if men in prison can engage in clearly homosexual acts and still be perceived, not just by themselves but by everyone else around them, to be strictly heterosexual then this proves perception is everything.

I have read that for such men, SEX is a form of dominance---the ultimate way to "prove" that they are "men". They usually come from subcultures where "being a "man" " is of supreme importance and any less extreme mode of behaviour is somehow "gay"----Again we have an ignorant (and in this case dangerous) idea of what 'gay" is, that propigates in such cultures. In their minds the one who "Gives" it is the "man" and the one who "gets' it is the queer---whether he is willing or not.

It has been noted that these men are like that and hold these attitudes BEFORE they go to prison----and is considered an indicator of a future or eventual criminal conviction. As most of these guys will eventually commit (usually violent) crimes as a direct or indirect result of holding such distorted social and sexual attitudes.

[Annette_boy]

Hi
those that troll for sex in public bathrooms should be aware of the dangers involved the Senator was lucky to only be arrested as the wrong macho type would have beaten the hell out of him such places are known to be spots for police to make a quick arrest.
the other observation I have is how some men delude them self's about there orientation
If he is in a gay bar with me dressed, buying me drinks and chatting me up in hope of getting into my panties He is not straight he is at least Bi perhaps cause I was dressed en fem made it seem less gay to him He did not achieve his goal but I give him points for trying but he was to full of ____ for my tastes I ditched him by going to the ladies room
Hugs to all who want them
Annette

[SatinDoll00]

I am bi and I like to wear women's clothing. I do not go out dressed to find a sexual partner. Especially not to try fool someone into thinking I was GG. I do not cruise parks or restrooms (that's gross) but to each his/her own. That's a risk that no one in their right mind should be taking part in. AIDS has not gone away and if you want to get arrested, you're taking a risk at that too.

Most of you girls seem to be nice but very opinionated, some of you come across as, well, constipated.

Just maybe a bit much on the PC (politically correct) thing.

I understand that most on here are trying to put a positive spin on the lifestyle(s) associated with this site. But I honestly think that the people you are trying to impress are pretty disgusting in their sexual appetites. Maybe that was a little overstated.

I can take an ass whooping but I don't like to be ignored...talk to me.


sugar

Hey Gurl!

Do not feel ignored. Your words are being heard, even if you do not get the responses.

Despite what many say...there is nothing at all wrong with being attracted to men, or women.

Children on the other hand...that is wrong.

Morgan <--- Looking at YOU Michael Jackson

[Satrana]

Again we have an ignorant (and in this case dangerous) idea of what 'gay" is, that propigates in such cultures. In their minds the one who "Gives" it is the "man" and the one who "gets' it is the queer---whether he is willing or not.


Exactly the whole notion is based on dominance and submissiveness, masculinity and femininity. If you check out CD fantasies then you will see a very strong correlation with BDSM fantasies with the CD inevitably playing the submissive role.

The sad fact behind all of this is the continuing concept that femininity equals weakness which is one reason why CD men are so despised and laughed at, we willingly reduce our status in society so we are submitting ourselves to the will of others.

[MsJanessa]

well the fact is that many of us are gay or bi and many of us are into bdsm---it's as much a part of the TG culture as straight crossdressers.

[SirTrey]

well the fact is that many of us are gay or bi and many of us are into bdsm---it's as much a part of the TG culture as straight crossdressers.

I agree....The two do seem to go hand in hand frequently...Not all the time, but there are a lot of people who are into both CD and BDSM.....**T**

[kristiCD]

It's a complicated issue for me. I am "mostly" attracted to women. If I am on a beach or a busy street in the city I am always checking out all the girls, love looking at sexy legs and butts. Women in high heels really turn me on. I do not check out the guys, not attracted to them. But at the same time I like playing the role of a sexy **** girl and will be sexually submissive to a man and enjoy it, but would never want to kiss or cuddle with a man. I have never been with another sexy CD, not sure how that would feel. So I would say that I am bi-sexual but only feel romantic and physically attracted to women. I am very attracted to sexy women and also like to be a sexy girl. My ideal mate would be a female who likes to be sexually Dominant.

[JoAnnDallas]

Here is a little tibit of knowledge. Back when the Roman Empire was going around conquering other nations. When the Legions were in the field, it was permissiable for them to have sex with each other. It was consisdered OK, since no women were in the Legion and they may not be close to a town or city for weeks. Even the wifes of the legion members were OK with this.

[Sugar]

So...when in Rome???:tongueout




Here is a little tibit of knowledge. Back when the Roman Empire was going around conquering other nations. When the Legions were in the field, it was permissiable for them to have sex with each other. It was consisdered OK, since no women were in the Legion and they may not be close to a town or city for weeks. Even the wifes of the legion members were OK with this.

[Satrana]

The Greeks took it further. They thought soldiers would fight harder if they had to protect their lover in the field of battle, so they promoted homosexuality in the army as a positive attribute. How times have changed.

It is funny to see how liberal and accepting the old civilizations were, stuff that was so ordinary then now gets our knickers in a twist thousands of years later.