Silence of the Lambs

[SatinDoll00]

I was working today...and the folks at work have absolutely no clue that I am a CDer.

Well, a fellow CDer came into my establishment today. She (he) was really convincing. I had just finished some work in my office, and I came out, and one of my assistants (a female) was completing the transaction (no pun intended).

I went up to my assistant, and asked her if she knew that she was just helping a man. She said "I didn't at first, until it spoke".

Now, being a CDer myself, that sort of got my ire up a bit. I asked..."IT?"

My assistant responded by saying, "well, I don't know what to call a person like that...a freak maybe?"

So, rather than get excited, I ask "I can see it as different, but why a freak?"

Her response was "Didn't you ever see Silence of the Lambs? Those people are weeeeeeeeeerd!"

I decided that this was not the environment to stand up for TG rights (I know, me, right?)

I asked the assistant manager "what did she buy?" and the assitant told me.

My reponse..."what was your sales goal today?"

The assistant told me. It was less than the purchase.

My response..."looks like that "freak" just made your day huh?"

Nothing else was said on the subject.

I have thought about it alot after it happened. My assistant manager did nothing to make the CDer feel uncomfortable, but I am concerned nonetheless.

Is this really the image we portray to the 'general public'? Are we all considered to be some derranged, skin-wearing, insane, sick-os??

I think I want to have a discussion with this particular employee. Although she did nothing wrong to the face of our generous CD client...I am ill at ease about her level of acceptance...especially considering she herself is a lesbian.

Well...what do you all think? Should I talk with the employee? Should I let it go? If I do talk with the employee, I could risk revealing myself. I am a District Manager now, and I cannot really afford to lose this job. I wonder how many employees in all of my stores share this opinion of CDers?

At the very least, the managers in my district will get a lecture about diversity and acceptance at the next meeting :D

Morgan <---Could never look down on anyone, not even Hitler himself, if he made my store's goal for the day!!! :D

[Mya Summers]

wow this is a hard one actually "well at least for me it would be." Here's my idea, I would pull her to the side where noone could hear ur conversation and ask her views on why she relates CDers to freaks b/c of a movie? Then I would just politely ask her what do u think pple consider u to be considering that u r a lesbian? But at the same time don't let on that you yourself are a CDer if you don't want her to know about it so that it protects your job..For me it's b/c of pple like her I don't go out en"'femme. I wish you the best of luck w/the issue no matter what you decide to do.

Mya

[SatinDoll00]

Oh dear - I was with you until the "especially as she is a Lesbian" bit ...
Whats that got to do with anything? .. Just shows we all stereotype - ALL of us.
To me, it irrelevant what her sexual preference is.

Josi x

Just saying that someone that embraces an alternative lifestyle should be less prone to calling out others on theirs. (the whole glass houses and stones thing)

Morgan


wow this is a hard one actually "well at least for me it would be." Here's my idea, I would pull her to the side where noone could hear ur conversation and ask her views on why she relates CDers to freaks b/c of a movie? Then I would just politely ask her what do u think pple consider u to be considering that u r a lesbian? But at the same time don't let on that you yourself are a CDer if you don't want her to know about it so that it protects your job..For me it's b/c of pple like her I don't go out en"'femme. I wish you the best of luck w/the issue no matter what you decide to do.

Mya

Two quick things...

1 - Don't let anyone keep you from going out en femme. It really, where it counts, does not matter what people that are not in a relationship with you think

2- I am very concerned about having any kind of conversation with anyone on this level. In the corporate world, these kinds of conversations, especially when conducted in total privacy, tend to explode into sexual harrassment cases! Believe me, I have seen it happen.

Morgan

[trannie T]

Seems like some sensitivity training is in order for your crew. You made one interesting statment in suggesting that as a lesbian she should be more sensitive. Being a lesbian does not give a person any extraordinary insights, neither does being a Mason, a Methodist or a railroad engineer.

[Sheri 4242]

I am very concerned about having any kind of conversation with anyone on this level. In the corporate world, these kinds of conversations, especially when conducted in total privacy, tend to explode into sexual harrassment cases! Believe me, I have seen it happen.

You do have to be carefull about having these kinds of conversations (especially one-on-one or small groups) in the corporate world, but, that said, I do think you may have a broader opportunity that could be very productive!

So . . .


I think I want to have a discussion with this particular employee. Although she did nothing wrong to the face of our generous CD client...I am ill at ease about her level of acceptance...especially considering she herself is a lesbian.

Should I talk with the employee? Should I let it go? If I do talk with the employee, I could risk revealing myself. I am a District Manager now, and I cannot really afford to lose this job.

At the very least, the managers in my district will get a lecture about diversity and acceptance at the next meeting

I wouldn't have further one-on-one talks with this employee on this topic, BUT giving a "sensitivity" presentation -- re diversity, understanding, and acceptance -- to the managers could be quite productive and handled very professionally!!! Without naming the one employee, you can report to your managers what you witnessed (and what ensued in the short talk you did have, sans mention that she is a lesbian), then go into some factual information -- like you've learned that even police departments are undergoing this type of training -- as you know, we've discussed this on here before -- but your talk doesn't have to say where you learned this, it just needs to show that you are a DM with a keen understanding of diversity issues!!! Handled correctly, you could have a healthy impact upon your district -- and isn't that intrinsic to the job?!!!

[Vicky_Scot]

Just saying that someone that embraces an alternative lifestyle should be less prone to calling out others on theirs. (the whole glass houses and stones thing)

Morgan

You are 100% correct SD.

I judge no one and I expect no one to judge me.

[RachelDenise]

I think some diversity training is in store for all. Nobody will be singled out and it can pass (yes, intentional) as something that is being sent down from corporate.

[Angie G]

It's a sad thing people think if you not like them your a freak so somthing :hugs:
Angie

[Fab Karen]

My response would have been to ask,"are the stereotypes about lesbians in movies accurate?"

But the idea of diversity training is excellent.


BTW, I think in the movie as well as the book, Dr. Lecter says something to the effect that this person isn't a transsexual, but feels inferior to women & is so mentally unbalanced as to think that building a "suit" out of women's flesh would make him a woman & thus no longer "inferior."

[MsJanessa]

ever since the movie Psycho we have generally been portrayed in a negative light in film---exceptions are Priscilla, To Wong Foo and Kinky Boots---hopefully with more of us out and about the public will take a different view of us---your employee does need some sensitivity training---particularly if she is in a job--like retail sales---where she might run into us often---tell me does she feel the same about gays, black people etc--if so she is a lawsuit waiting to happen. you might want to remind her that it wasn't too long ago that lesbians were considered weird

[DonnaT]

My wife said she is reminded of Silence of the Lambs when I dress. Even though I'm nowhere near like that guy was.

I would suggest typing up a memo, or store policy, pertaining to dealing with trans individuals. Remind everyone that we are not freaks. That when dealing with us they should use the pronoun appropriate to the gender we are presenting, not "it". Remind them that we will be repeat customers if treated with respect and dignity, which will result in better sales numbers.

[Emily Ann Brown]

Morgan hun,


As a corporate upper management type let me toss my two cents in and state that a short "sensitivity" lecture including our willingness to spend good money and being 5% of the male population that your business doesn't need to lose is the proper way to go. It's well within normal procedure and is not a risk to your career.

Don't bring up your employee's sexual preference....EVER. Not good business, not your business. But I understand what you were thinking.


Emily Ann

[Suzie Green]

It can all be boiled down to a written statement to the fact that company policy dictates that we treat all of our customers and fellow employees without judgement or bias in any form. That would preclude the use of titles such as "Sir" or Ma'am" and the like.

[ubokvt]

I would talk to her, but I would approch it fron a strictly professional and sales point of view. We have to be aware of our judments with any client, be they CD, Gay, overweight, trashy, ignoratant, whatever. We are here to sell them a product they want and our judments might be percieved and in turn hurt sales and the business. A sales persons here have to suspend their judment and treat all clients, costumers with tollerance and totall acceptance. She, because of her orientation should be accutly aware of how a person who is judged differnt by our society can be aware of and looking for those judgements in the people they deal with, and not return to a place they feel is not accepting. Which means tomorow she might not make her sales goal. tollerace and open acceptance is just good business.

[Melinda G]

I would just let it go. This is a good example of how many people think of us, and a prime example of why you don't want to "come out" to anyone.
As long as she was polite, and didn't offend the customer, let it go. If you protesteth too much, you may give yourself away. Not a good career move.
Most of us don't understand what we do or why we do it. And I for one, am not going to waste much time trying to educate the world on crossdressers.

[Georgette]

Be very careful on this one, it could lead to HARRASMENT if you go one on one, treat as a group training where you have witnesses., Be there done that, never thought a second about until I recieved a sommons for Harrassment charge, had a heck of a time with it.:straightface:

[bobi jean]

Satindoll. I have read many, many times on the forum that we, as crossdressers, must take tiny tiny steps toward acceptance in our communities. Hon, you now have the opportunity to make one really large step towards our goal of acceptance. In your position you are able to, through proper channels, make an entire chain of stores more accepting, and more willing to assist ALL PEOPLE no matter what/who they are.
I believe, I would take the matter up the ladder first. you will have to explain to your boss what you had observed and how it makes you feel, knowing that at least some of the associates aren't or do not appear to be accepting of all customers. BE CAREFUL AND DO NOT RUSH THINGS.
The very best to you dear and good luck.

[nikki_t]

Treading on eggshells with this one. But maybe if she realized that just a couple of short decades ago, lesbians and gays were also considered "freaks" and actually considered mentally ill in most circles then maybe she would be more accepting. Not only that but same was said of women who wore pants 60-70 years ago.

Glass houses and stones for sure!

The problem is in deciding whether to talk to her about it.

[tammie]

Good Morning All: I have to comment on this one. The crossdresser is a unique individual. For the most part we R closeted and shackled with this terrible shame that we get when we start as adolescents. It is only with encouragement and acceptance from someone (this forum is priceless) that we
ever escape that shame.

We almost never hurt anyone, except ourselves or SOs so we have less in common with serial killers and Hitler than they do with each other.

I am amused that a lesbian would be put off by a crossdresser. That is what my grandmother used to say was "the pot calling the kettle black". If U say anything it should be about acceptance is not something we reserve for our own kind only.

This is an educational issue and nothing more. Pehaps U can say something without outing yourself. It is only a tempest in a teacup.

[KarenSusan]

I would just let it go. This is a good example of how many people think of us, and a prime example of why you don't want to "come out" to anyone.
As long as she was polite, and didn't offend the customer, let it go. If you protesteth too much, you may give yourself away. Not a good career move.
Most of us don't understand what we do or why we do it. And I for one, am not going to waste much time trying to educate the world on crossdressers.

I agree with Melinda. All the "sensitivity training" in the world is not going to change what this person thinks unless she is receptive to it.

[kristine239]

Also it sounds like you company may need a diversity HR policy, that containes TG issues. almost all of the major corporations have one.

I have resources available to the policy writting and staff training if you are interested in any assistance.

Love Kristine

[SatinDoll00]

I have a district meeting coming up, my first one with all of my store managers. I plan on adding diversity and sensitivity training to the agenda. I want the managers to go back to their stores and train their people on it. Our company does not really have a written policy on it per se, so I am typing one up. I will, of course, have to have it approved by our corporate office...but knowing the good folks in HR the way I do, there is no way they would not want this.

I certainly do not want anyone to have an experience like I did at a certain shoe store.

Thanks for the all the input everyone!!

Morgan

[nikki_t]

I have a district meeting coming up, my first one with all of my store managers. I plan on adding diversity and sensitivity training to the agenda. I want the managers to go back to their stores and train their people on it. Our company does not really have a written policy on it per se, so I am typing one up. I will, of course, have to have it approved by our corporate office...but knowing the good folks in HR the way I do, there is no way they would not want this.

I certainly do not want anyone to have an experience like I did at a certain shoe store.

Thanks for the all the input everyone!!

Morgan

What happened at the shoe store Morgan? If you don't mind me asking?

[Melinda G]

I really think you are getting all worked up over this. According to your post, the clerk did nothing wrong, despite her personal feelings. As long as she completed the transaction and treated the CDer with respect, you are making a big deal over nothing, trying to change her personal feelings. It borders on "thought police".
I've been a crossdresser all my life, and I don't give a damn what people think, as long as they keep it to themselves, and don't embarrass or harass me. Changing behavior is one thing. Trying to change peoples thought process is a whole different thing.

[Fab Karen]

I agree with Melinda. All the "sensitivity training" in the world is not going to change what this person thinks unless she is receptive to it.
That's a big assumption. It's possible her eyes might be opened. And even if they're not, plenty of other people will be exposed to understanding.

[sterling12]

I think that The Conversation you Did have, probably got your point across. At least it probably got her thinking about not p*****g off the Boss!

You showed concern for the shopper, you emphasized that a sale was made that helped her reach her quota and it doesn't matter who the customer was.

I think that the only thing I might have added was something like: "Do you believe that characters in movies actually portray people in real life?" Sometimes all you really need to do is, "get them thinking." That often makes a point without beating them over the head with it.

I hope that your customer comes back to shop again. Your assistant might just find out "it's" a real person with a character and personality, not someone portrayed in a movie.

Peace and Love, Joanie

[Deidra Cowen]

Things are getting better out there. Charlie Brown the famous Drag Queen here in Atlanta was doing a show one night at Hoe Down's. I was there with one of my Tgirl friends and a GG.

Anyway, Charlie at one point in the show just sat on a stool, chatted, told jokes and picked on people in the crowd. She told the story of how when she started her shows 25 years ago her Girls had to dress in drab and would hide their femmy cloths in garbage bags on the way to the Club. Why? Because they would have gotten beaten up if in femme mode.

These days you can run around all over the place and generally people leave you alone and tolerate ya. If you actually get into a deep conversation, like I did with some straight people at a bar recently, you start finding out many still deep down think we are freaky, but regardless its better now that ever.

[SatinDoll00]

I really think you are getting all worked up over this. According to your post, the clerk did nothing wrong, despite her personal feelings. As long as she completed the transaction and treated the CDer with respect, you are making a big deal over nothing, trying to change her personal feelings. It borders on "thought police".
I've been a crossdresser all my life, and I don't give a damn what people think, as long as they keep it to themselves, and don't embarrass or harass me. Changing behavior is one thing. Trying to change peoples thought process is a whole different thing.

My concern is not for that particular customer...my concern is that employees have not received the proper training in how to deal with situations like these.

To briefly recap an experience I posted here, seems like forever ago...

On my first trip out, I went shopping in a shoe store. I purchased some shoes and on the way out the sales associates in the store told me to "have a nice day sir" ... rather loudly.

At the time I was devestated and upset...now I am more in awe that they would even consider treating anyone, especially a paying customer, like that.

The bottom line is, we deserve respect. I do not seek to change the way people think. First of all, you cannot do that...they have to do that for themselves. Secondly, it is not about controlling people's thoughts...it is about making sure that they understand that is not acceptable under any circumstances to refer to a crossdresser or TG of any kind as anything other than the sex they are presenting.

It is also not acceptable for them to refer to minorities, gays, lesbians, the elderly or anyone that walks through the door of our stores as anything that would be considered derogatory. In fact, it is not acceptable to treat anyone that walks in one of our stores rudely or to make fun of that person...to that persons face or otherwise. This is not the 4th grade, it is a professional environment.

Morgan

[DonnaT]

Sounds like a plan Morgan. :)

[Chantelle CD]

I totally agree with your last reply here Satin doll, Maybe by teaching them to handle others that are different in the store the popper way, they may also learn that it is just simply a moral way to treat others, and not just a way to treat others in a work only environment. Reality is, yes, most everyone will be nice to your face, and tare the strip off your turned backside when you leave. It hurts yes....but does it have to???? If we are strong in forgiveness, because we know, they don't know what there doing, and they don't because they are hurting others, and this goes against the laws of life, and love, the opposite way to be, if you want to connect to the light from witch EVERYTHING came from. So what if we do forgive them?? Then they do not hurt us anymore, then the only ones they are hurting is themselves, by mocking another being of the light! So we forgive them, be what we are, and love ourselves, keep those that are close to us, understanding and evolved souls, and we grow, those people cant hurt us anymore, there negative energy bounces off of us, instead of us getting hurt by it, because we know how to forgive! Then we feel better about ourselves, enjoy our time out, others cant get us down, and peoples minds will change, the more they see us, interact with us, and there knowledge grows.