A Question for Jewish Girls

[alysonatl]

First of all, darlings, let me wish you a happy and sweet new year. However, the new year presents a problem. When I go to synagogue, the CD in me wishes she could be wearing the new dress or skirt suit like the other women. I look at outfits, shoes, hairdos and manicures and think about how might have improved the outfit or what I would have worn. I long to be one of the "girls" gossiping and so-and-so's affair or someone's tacky outfit. Of course, this takes my mind off the business at hand, and at times I find myself staring at someone's outfit. How do you girls feel in such situations and handle it? Have you ever been tempted to dress for synagogue? How do my Christian sisters handle such conflicts?

[sterling12]

I'm not Jewish, but might I suggest that you try and find a congregation that's more liberal and welcoming to the idea of your dressing. There are Christian churches who are accepting, I should imagine you can find a Synagogue who would be the same.

It's your call, but I wouldn't waste much time trying to find An Orthodox Rabbi and congregants who would accept you. I imagine they would be much like our Fundamentalists, first thing they would do is start quoting that passage in Leviticus.

Peace and Love, Joanie

[JeanneF]

It's your call, but I wouldn't waste much time trying to find An Orthodox Rabbi and congregants who would accept you. I imagine they would be much like our Fundamentalists, first thing they would do is start quoting that passage in Leviticus.

Actually, it's not. Orthodox Judaism takes a rather interesting stance when it comes to transsexuality. I had this conversation with my Rabbi a few weeks ago (I grew up Reform but I'm studying with an Orthodox Rabbi to get a better grasp on my Judaism). Essentially, while it's not encouraged to transition, it's accepted that this is a struggle that does exist, and that a Orthodox TS will be treated as his/her true (as opposed to birth) gender by the community. Unlike Fundamentalist Christians, Orthodox Jews are rational and don't preach hate for GLBT people.

If you are Reform, the community is VERY accepting. To the point that there are now specific blessings for transitioning people.

http://davidsvoice.com/page.html?ArticleID=155124

Reform Publishes Blessings for Sex Changes
Ben Harris

NEW YORK (JTA) -- In a groundbreaking move to recognize the experiences of transgender Jews, the Reform movement has published several prayers for sanctifying the sex-change process.

The Union for Reform Judaism this week released the second edition of Kulanu, the union's 500-page resource manual for gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender inclusion. The guide includes two blessings authored by Rabbi Elliot Kukla for transitioning genders.

Kukla, who was known as Eliza when ordained in 2006 by the movement's New York seminary, originally wrote the blessings for a friend who wanted to mark each time he received testosterone therapy. Still, Kukla believes they are appropriate for multiple moments in the sex-change process, including "moments of medical transitions."

Broad sections of the Jewish community now accept gays and lesbians serving as rabbis and cantors, and many support rabbinic officiation at same-sex commitment ceremonies. But the Reform movement, the country's largest synagogue denomination, had never gone as far as to say that it is kosher to recite a blessing for a sex change.

"There was a conversation about what we should include and what we shouldn't include," said Rabbi Richard Address, one of Kulanu's editors and the director of the union's Department of Jewish Family Concerns. "This was going to be a little bit out there."

The first Hebrew blessing praises God as "the Transforming One to those who transform/transition/cross over." A second blessing, intended to be said after completing the transition process, praises God, "who has made me in his image" -- a reference to the description in Genesis of the creation of Adam.

A final blessing is the familiar Shehechiyanu, traditionally recited to mark special events or notable firsts.

"The midrash, classical Jewish exegesis, adds that the adam harishon, the first human being formed in God's likeness, was an androgynos, an intersex person," Kukla writes in a brief introduction. "Hence our tradition teaches that all bodies and genders are created in God's image whether we identify as men, women, intersex, or something else."

First published in 1996, the original version of Kulanu was a 150-page collection of texts intended as a resource for gay and lesbian inclusion. The updated version is significantly expanded, and includes liturgy for same-sex union ceremonies, a divorce document for same-sex couples and a prayer for coming out regarding one's sexual identity.

The new volume also includes a section on the history of Reform Judaism's response to the challenge of sexual and gender identity, documenting a 40-year period of increasing willingness to normalize the status of gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender individuals in the movement.

The issue of transgender Jews was first addressed in 1978 when the Central Conference of American Rabbis deemed it permissible for one who had undergone a sex-change operation to be married according to Jewish tradition. In 1990, the CCAR allowed such individuals to be converted. And in 2003, the union retroactively applied its policy on gays and lesbians to the transgender and bisexual communities.

"It's a logical next step in this process," Address said of the new liturgy.

Still, those involved in designing Kulanu -- Hebrew for "all of us" -- wondered if the movement, even with its trailblazing history on these issues, was prepared to sanctify sex-change procedures.

Along with the liturgy, the new version also includes essays by Kukla and Reuben Zellman, who in 2003 became the movement's first transgender rabbinical student, aimed at making congregations more sensitive. The material instructs congregants in matters of using the proper pronoun and encourages synagogues to install a gender-neutral rest room.

"We are living in the midst of one of the greatest transitions in American Jewish life," Address said. "And this is part of it."

L'Shana Tova.

[Monique Althea]

...the CD in me wishes she could be wearing the new dress or skirt suit like the other women. I look at outfits, shoes, hairdos and manicures and think about how might have improved the outfit or what I would have worn. I long to be one of the "girls" gossiping and so-and-so's affair or someone's tacky outfit. Of course, this takes my mind off the business at hand, and at times I find myself staring at someone's outfit...

I've never been to a synagogue, but this pretty much sums up my attitude towards the opposite sex. I have no interest in male bonding, and I am jealous of women's ability to instantly bond with one another even more I am jealous of the wardrobe options...Simply put, I am overly preoccupied with females and femininity.

[Rita B]

As a Catholic I have actually gone to Mass dressed en femme many years ago and it felt completely natural. I just had to mind my P's & Q's and not join in the singing and be sure to keep my knees together when sitting or kneeling. . .and yes, Catholic women also check each other out.

Rita B

[Paula Wilder]

Good question. As it happens, I was at services at our reform congregation last night and enjoyed both the spirit of the holiday service and the excellent fashion show. It's fun to watch the younger teenage girls try to walk into or out of services in their brand new 4-inch heels. I often know how they feel! I've not been tempted to go to services dressed, but I know our Temple would accept it if I did.

[kassandra richard]

To answer your question, yes as a Christian CD'er I check out some of the women in the congregation to see what they're wearing. Granted, as a busy worship leader :eek: I'm not usually paying attention to that anyway, so it's not a huge temptation for me :) Often, the person who's outfit I admire the most is my wife's, although some of the young adult women have looks that I like too.

As for the larger issue that's been brought forth about acceptance, I think I'll leave that for a later essay or something. Suffice it to say that my thoughts on the matter are probably all over the map.

Anyway, L'shana Tova -- Ketivah vi-chatima Tova.

Kassandra

[Samantha Thomson]

first off i am a jewish girl but to your question i dont think i would have the nerve to go to synagogue dressed up would love to but just dont have the nerve i get jealous looking at all the ladys in there dresses skirts and having there nails done wish i could but what can you say

[Alice Torn]

I am not physically Jewish, but, the church of God I attend, keeps the Saturday sabbath, and the annual Hebrew holydays. Very conservative. Almost no single ladies in it, but quite a few of us older bachelors. If I came dressed, I would be escorted to the door, as our church keeps the statutes, where applicable. I do always notice the dresses, skirts, tops, sweaters, heels, hair. As a love starved 53 year old virgin bachelor, How can I not? The thing that really hurts, in my church, and most churches, is the lack odf concern, for the lonely single men, so many, who have had raw deals in life, ground to powder, taking it in the shorts! The huge majority of people, in churches, are married, with family. I, and some other single men, most poor, never had a chance, to marry, struggle with shame, not just for cding, but, for being considered odd, gay, loser, etc, etc. Yet, I have been serving and helping poor old ladies, and mentally ill people, doing hard, and menial work, while young married men, with kids, are promoted, and put over me, who have not suffered 1/1000th, the grief, being branded. I just hope the Great Judge, and King, is more kind, and fair, when that time comes, in the future world. Single older men, are considered the lowest form of life in our society, and in Jewish, and Christian tradition, too. That is too bad. Weren't some of the prophets single, and Paul, and even Jesus!?

[Sheri 4242]

The Christian girls out there could always go looking for a liberal Whiskeypalian -- eh, make that Episcopalian -- Church. You can't swing a dead cat without running into liberal Episcopalians!!! :D

[sterling12]

Actually, it's not. Orthodox Judaism takes a rather interesting stance when it comes to transsexuality. I had this conversation with my Rabbi a few weeks ago (I grew up Reform but I'm studying with an Orthodox Rabbi to get a better grasp on my Judaism). Essentially, while it's not encouraged to transition, it's accepted that this is a struggle that does exist, and that a Orthodox TS will be treated as his/her true (as opposed to birth) gender by the community. Unlike Fundamentalist Christians, Orthodox Jews are rational and don't preach hate for GLBT people.

If you are Reform, the community is VERY accepting. To the point that there are now specific blessings for transitioning people.

http://davidsvoice.com/page.html?ArticleID=155124


L'Shana Tova.


OK Lisa, I have a better idea of how they feel about TS persons, but I still don't know how they would respond to someone who is crossdressing only. I think that was kind of the original question.

If you are "out" to your Rabbi, please ask him what's the 10/4 on CD?

And by and large, you are right about The Fundamentalists. Might be a few isolated pockets somewhere, but why bother to even try. Much simpler to go find an accepting place to worship.

Peace and Love, Joanie

[Laurie909]

First of all, darlings, let me wish you a happy and sweet new year. However, the new year presents a problem. When I go to synagogue, the CD in me wishes she could be wearing the new dress or skirt suit like the other women. I look at outfits, shoes, hairdos and manicures and think about how might have improved the outfit or what I would have worn. I long to be one of the "girls" gossiping and so-and-so's affair or someone's tacky outfit. Of course, this takes my mind off the business at hand, and at times I find myself staring at someone's outfit. How do you girls feel in such situations and handle it? Have you ever been tempted to dress for synagogue? How do my Christian sisters handle such conflicts?

Let me tell you that I ushered at my shul Wednesday night. When viewing the women, these two words came to my mind....."entirely inappropriate." I couldn't believe some of the things the women were wearing. It was unbelievable! I know I could have looked better (and dressed better) than 90% of these women. It's hard to believe some people have such bad "taste." One woman that I know had on a long purple dress and black mules that looked absolutely horrible on her...which was a shame because she is a very pretty woman. Yes, it brings to mind that phrase...."What were they thinking?"

[JeanneF]

OK Lisa, I have a better idea of how they feel about TS persons, but I still don't know how they would respond to someone who is crossdressing only. I think that was kind of the original question.

If you are "out" to your Rabbi, please ask him what's the 10/4 on CD?

Will do. I never really asked about CDing, because it doesn't really apply to me, but I'll bring it up to him the next time we get together (the week after Yom Kippur). My guess is that if someone isn't living 24/7 (or at least reasonably close), that it would be discouraged, but that's mainly because in the Orthodox synagogues men and women sit in separate sections and as such being dressed as a woman but living as a man, where would you sit?

In the Reform temples, I don't think it would be a problem at all, as long as you presented yourself with a level of decorum. The only thing is that if it's anything like the temple I grew up in, you'd be subjected to the "OMG look what she's wearing" that all the women do during the high holidays to each other. So you better look good. ;)

[alysonatl]

My many thanks to all you wonderful girls who took the time to explore the basic subject of my thread. L'shava tova to all!

At services, I fif however inspect the various nuances of the female jewish high holiday experience, from the 14 year olds in their new heels to the woman dressing way too inappropriately for her age (I mean, short tiered skirt, boots and big jewelry--maybe borrowed from her grandaughter. It made the day a little more interesting enjoying seeing these interactions.

[MJ]

First of all, darlings, let me wish you a happy and sweet new year. However, the new year presents a problem. When I go to synagogue, the CD in me wishes she could be wearing the new dress or skirt suit like the other women. I look at outfits, shoes, hairdos and manicures and think about how might have improved the outfit or what I would have worn. I long to be one of the "girls" gossiping and so-and-so's affair or someone's tacky outfit. Of course, this takes my mind off the business at hand, and at times I find myself staring at someone's outfit. How do you girls feel in such situations and handle it?
Have you ever been tempted to dress for synagogue? How do my Christian sisters handle such conflicts?

i go all the time to church as mj no big deal and our church totaly accepts all who cross dresses ...


To answer your question, yes
as a Christian CD'er I check out some of the women in the congregation to see what they're wearing. Granted, as a busy worship leader :eek: I'm not usually paying attention to that anyway, so it's not a huge temptation for me :) Often, the person who's outfit I admire the most is my wife's, although some of the young adult women have looks that I like too.

As for the larger issue that's been brought forth about acceptance, I think I'll leave that for a later essay or something. Suffice it to say that my thoughts on the matter are probably all over the map.

Anyway, L'shana Tova -- Ketivah vi-chatima Tova.

Kassandra

Kassandra
omg :eek: you should go dressed you would love it :D.... the congregation well maybe not so much he he :tongueout thats what i say to them

[Trinni]

My guess is that if someone isn't living 24/7 (or at least reasonably close), that it would be discouraged, but that's mainly because in the Orthodox synagogues men and women sit in separate sections and as such being dressed as a woman but living as a man, where would you sit?

That is an excellent point. When I was thinking about the original question that did not come to mind. If it is an orthodox Shul it could cause a major problem.

As for the original post I converted so my take on going to Shul is a little different than some. I feel like I'm so far behind the eight ball, I don't really pay attention to anything but the Torah portion or what is being said on the Bimah. That is why I personally would not want to dress at Shul. I find when I'm dressed, my mind wanders more about clothes and just feeling more feminine.

As for a side note, I don't know if you have natural long hair or where a wig but the look of some of the shaitels I have seen, you might make some of the women really jealous. On the other hand they might make you jealous.

[Laurie909]

In the Reform temples, I don't think it would be a problem at all, as long as you presented yourself with a level of decorum. The only thing is that if it's anything like the temple I grew up in, you'd be subjected to the "OMG look what she's wearing" that all the women do during the high holidays to each other. So you better look good

I did appear at my shul one time completely dressed. It wasn't during a service or anything but it was on or near Halloween. There were some activities going on there that night. Anyway, I walked down the hallway and the cantor's brother saw me and said "hello", whether he recognized me or thought I was a woman, I don't know, but he was polite. Also, I remember I used the restroom while there...though for the life of me I can't remember if I used the "men's" or the "women's"!!!