The Military and the Crossdresser [Archive] - Crossdressers.com - #1 Community & Forum for Crossdressers, Family and Friends

dancinginthedark

09-14-2007, 02:27 PM

I have always assumed that the military was strict about dress codes & I wondered if any of you have first hand experiences on what would happen, if anything, if a solider was found to be "underdressing" under their uniform? Would it make a difference if the solider was off duty? Would it be against any regulations to be a crossdresser in or out of the closet? The only thing I can think of, and this is just a guess, is being found out of uniform. I haven't heard anything in the news or else where that addresses this, but I'll be the first to admit I am not a big fan of the news either. The closest I've heard is the don't ask don't tell rule for gays, but being transgendered doesn't mean you are gay. So no help there.

And what about those who are TS? Are there any regulations on soldiers who are found to be taking hormones or transitioning in any way? Is it possible to be "out" without being booted out of the service.

Nope. I have no one in RL who is currently in the service who is transgendered.

So anyone know?? I am not looking to turn this into is it right or wrong here. No politics in other words, just looking for some facts and information from someone who knows. Thanks in advance.

`
dancin

Toyah

09-14-2007, 02:59 PM

Not sure exactly how it is now but when I was in the forces anything like that in or out of uniform would be instant dismissal. it would be extremely difficult to hide anyway you cannot imagine how closely the forces live together

09-14-2007, 03:08 PM

in Canada you must wear the full uniform, the uniform as numbers and you must dress correctly ... but if out of uniform ...dress how you feel feminine or in drab , kinda tough if you live on the base

KirstyChibiMoon

09-14-2007, 03:21 PM

i served 7 years in the us army from 1987 to 1994 and was a closeted cd then...

that was when they had the big "don't ask don't tell" policy about being gay, and I was straight at that time.
Anyway, I was busted one during an IG inspection by a 2 star general <giggles> he saw a bunch of my ballerina clothes and some of my undies and dresses <giggles>

he just looked over at me and raised an eyebrow then left!
i never heard about it after that :)

btw im retired after only 7 years becasue i was hurt jumping out of plains in italy. AIRBORNE! weee! <giggles>
when i got hurt my biggest fear was the doc seeing that i was wearing tights and a leotard under my BDUs <giggles>

then round the last year of my service we had a sergent from the navy that changed service and he told me alot about some of the things that goes on on a ship! WOW...
he used to dress up as a girl as some kind of ceremony <giggles>
so then i told him about me being a cd so once in a while we would both go out on the weekends in drag :)

we got teased alot but we were both good soldiers and my CO didnt mind, sure we got teased alot by the others but who cares... i think they were just jealous! :tongueout

DonnaT

09-14-2007, 04:38 PM

I believe one can still dismissed from the service if caught CDing. One is subject to the uniform code of military justice 24hrs a day, so there is no such thing as off duty time in this regard.

So, if caught, or even if one tells a psychologist (they are obligated to report it), it depends on the person catching you if they report you. You can be judged unfit (mental defect?) for military service according to the military's medical regulations.

However, due to recruitment woes, a number of commanders are not likely to dismiss someone on the grounds of CDing.

I had a good link once. I'll see if I can find it.

DonnaT

09-14-2007, 04:40 PM

Here we go. (http://web.archive.org/web/20060512202214/http://www.sldn.org/templates/get/record.html?section=19&record=726)

Transgender service members also face the possibility of being discharged for having a personality disorder.

Service members who seek psychological or medical treatment through the military should know that conversations with military health-care providers are not confidential and any statement concerning being transgender can, and most likely will, be reported to their commands and separation proceedings begun. For those members who seek treatment from civilian providers, beware that each service has regulations governing military members seeking outside health care and may include reporting requirements. Failure to abide by these regulations could potentially place a member at risk for UCMJ action. Further, cross-dressing as part of the transition process, even when prescribed by competent medical providers, may be considered a violation of the UCMJ and can potentially be prosecuted at court-martial.

snip

Transvestitism or Cross dressing is addressed in regulations concerning conduct and separation proceedings. Each service has different regulations and the specific manner of addressing the situation will depend on the service member's status as an enlisted or officer, and by which component they are in, active duty, reserve, or National Guard. In some of the regulations, transvestitism is considered to be misconduct / sexual perversion / sexual deviation that subjects the member to potential UCMJ action and subsequent discharge.

While not a per se violation of either UCMJ Article 133 (Conduct Unbecoming) or Article 134 (General Article pertaining to good order and discipline), cross-dressing can be the basis for judicial, non-judicial, or administrative separation proceedings. The service is to look at various factors in deciding if cross-dressing by a member is prejudicial to good order and discipline: 1) the time, 2) the place, 3) the circumstances, and 4) the purpose for the cross-dressing.

snip

Every service member must abide by service regulations that address uniform and grooming standards.

Elsbeth

09-14-2007, 06:52 PM

Well Klinger seemed to think it would get him out of the Army - but they kept him anyway.

http://ladybunny.net/blog/uploaded_images/021107-721990.jpg

El

Sorry, I know that wasn't helpful but I could not resist.

Butterfly Bill

09-14-2007, 07:45 PM

I always confined my indulgences to hotel rooms and off-base apartments. I wouldn't have even thought about crossing the line while at work and on duty.

Linda Z

09-14-2007, 07:58 PM

I was in the navy for 6 years , if you are smart you find ways, they do not go out of their way to out good people.
it dose depend on the rating or group you are in.:2c:

Linda

KandisTX

09-14-2007, 08:06 PM

I underdressed for the last year I was in the Air Force. I was told on by my ex-wife and ended up being investigated by the USAFOSI, they found nothing that could be used against me as in any form of blackmail, since the AF now knew about my cding, it was no longer a security risk. It could have been bad if I had had a penpal from Russia at the time :) ~giggles~

Yes, they can be discharged however that would be pretty tough to prove since most psychiatrists know that CDing is not a "personality disorder". As to Klinger, well first, he was a character who was bucking for a Section 8 so that one really doesn't count. ~giggles~

Kandis:love:

nataliecd77

09-14-2007, 09:42 PM

Well when I was in the US Army....... we had the don't ask don't tell deal going on.....but it seemed like if you were otherwise a good soldier noone cared if you were gay, a crossdresser or liked to go around painted purple!
They could and occasionally did Chapter people for homosexual activities. The catch word was "propensity for homosexual activites" didn't mean you had to actually have gay sex.you just had to have a proven propensity for gay sex. The specific chapter title depended on wether you said something about it or wether Counter Intel caught you.
Most time people got out with a Honorable or General Discharge which isn't a a bad thing.
Having said all that I knew many many gays and lesbians in the service, alot of bisexuals and quite a few CD's or either persuasion.

I have my throries why that is but that's a whole nother story!
Natalie

TxKimberly

09-14-2007, 09:42 PM

I spent 12 years active duty Army (1983 to 1995). I would have never considered underdressing. I think DonnaT and KandisTx have pretty well covered it. If you have a security clearance, you didn't disclose this, and they find out later, it could be grounds for revoking your clearance. This is mostly because they fear it could be used to blackmail you.
Certainly Crossdressing while on duty and in uniform is out of the question for exactly the reason you mentioned - you would not be in proper uniform. Even if you were in 100% technically correct female uniform, you would still be "out of uniform" because they DO specify what uniform is for male/female.
Off duty, you are in a VERY grey area. I don't claim to be an expert on military law, but I do not think crossdressing is specifically addressed or prohibited. There are a number of other regulations that could be used against you IF someone wanted to push hard enough. Most of them would boil down to "Conduct Unbecoming of . . ", undesirable, unfit, etc.
I doubt very much any unit would tolerate someone doing it openly and repeatedly, like walking through the barracks every weekend in drag on your way out for a good time. In this case, even if they liked and respected you, I think most would feel obligated to process you out. All it would take is one close mided individual to be offended and push the issue
If you were not too blatant and were discreet, for instance people may know you do it but they don't see you, or someone catches you once, then it really does boil down to your chain of command. If they want to, I have zero doubt they can use it to get rid of you. If they like and respect you and your work ethic, they might be inclined to overlook it.

charlie-50

09-14-2007, 10:22 PM

kims right you just dont do it on post ...by the way im ex navy 74-78....charlie...:hugs:

Billijo49504

09-14-2007, 10:25 PM

Does the term, Blanket party, have any meaning to you. You might find out what it means if the rest of your outfit finds out....BJ

jsavage

09-14-2007, 11:35 PM

It depends a lot on the Commander. If he/she wants to ignore it it will be ignored. If they want to pursue it you could get discharged. Not worth the risk.

Alice Torn

09-14-2007, 11:40 PM

I was in the Air Force, in the mid 70's, and cding never crossed my mind. I was 21, when joining, and, had suffered from a bed wetting problem, all my life, but it had been less, and less often. Nevertheless, in boot camp, I prayed, and prayed, that I would not wet the bed, there! And, I never did, after I joined. No, I wouldn't even entertain the thought, if I were in.

Ronda_B

09-15-2007, 02:06 AM

I was in the NAVY from 1975-1979 and only did it off base except when we were overseas. I had a good collection of panties and all my shipmates thought that they were trophies.....little did they know they were my own. Just having them made me feel better. When we in Barcellona Spain there was a big groupe of crossdressers and TG people and it seemed to be fully acceptable there. They even had stores that catered to them and I was in Heaven.

Suzy Harrison

09-15-2007, 02:33 AM

I used to work for a major UK airline - and there was a pilot who was sacked, as it was found out he was wearing a bra underneath his uniform.

I know it's not military, but it's interesting all the same.

rose382832

09-15-2007, 06:23 AM

Lawren

09-15-2007, 08:36 AM

WARNING!

This could happen to you just as it did to me.

I was caught wearing pantyhose while in the U. S. Air Farce. I was off duty but on base. I was arrested, taken to the hospital, examined, and ordered to get counseling. I spent the rest of my enlistment, (approx 18 months), in counseling. (Obviously it didn't change me. LOL) I have no proof of this but I think they used it as a factor when they denied me re-enlistment. This all happened in 1983 and I don't know if the policy about CDing has changed but I seriously doubt that it has.

Be very carefull!

dancinginthedark

09-15-2007, 09:26 AM

Mornin' ladies and gents. Thank you for all of your answers. The question was prompted by the many posts I have seen from people who are/were in the service.

With the current situation here in the States I couldn't help but wonder and worry about service men and women currently enlisted. Sometimes my mind takes me on some pretty odd rides. One of the latest went something like this: I am sitting at home reading here and someone mentions having been in the service. I hear a news brief in the background about Marines being injured... my mind flashes to some imagined solider under a great deal of stress... and that lead to thoughts of dressing to help relive stress ....and that leads to more stress on my imagined solider. My mind just goes round and round with it all. Which leads me to wonder just how many have struggled with this in the past and how many are now. :eek: :( So I post my questions and wait to see if it was/is just as bad as my mind tells me.

The longer I am here the more situations I stumble across that weren't considered when I first started learning about this journey you are all on. So if no one has said it recently , "What an amazingly brave lot you are." :hugs:

.

dancin

`

Jamie001

09-15-2007, 10:09 AM

It is really interesting that they would "arrest" and take a person to the hospital for wearing pantyhose! The military are unbelievable phobes. It seems that crossdressing is treated as a worse offense than being gay. Unbelievable that they care about either!

You did it ON base?!

Yes, folks, BE careful... Don't do it on base. And if you live in a big military town, find another place to dress... you never know when you'll run into someone.

brendasmith

09-15-2007, 10:24 AM

When I was going through the reception station in the army, we were all asked a few personal questions. Have always thought if I had answered one truthfuly I might have been sent home. The question was, Do you wear womens cloths or would you like to. Should have said yes, anytime I get the chance. May I can learn to would have went better. If I had answered yes, they would have made my life miserable, not only there but went I got home too. Brend smith

dancinginthedark

09-15-2007, 10:34 AM

Does the term, Blanket party, have any meaning to you. You might find out what it means if the rest of your outfit finds out....BJ

I wasn't 100% sure so I did a search. :eek: That's horrible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blanket_party

I also found this link to the The Servicemembers Legal Defense Network that may be of help to any who are currently enlisted in the States.

http://www.sldn.org/templates/legalhelp/record.html?section=19&record=726

09-15-2007, 11:46 AM

quote dancing :- " imagined solider under a great deal of stress... and that lead to thoughts of dressing to help relive stress ....and that leads to more stress on my imagined solider. My mind just goes round and round with it all. Which leads me to wonder just how many have struggled with this in the past and how many are now. "

OK so if i join the army this will all go away ........ well no it won't and the stress builds up .. British army reserve Royal Corps of Signals.. i wonder how many others made that mistake ?

TxKimberly

09-15-2007, 04:52 PM

Kitty Sue

09-15-2007, 10:46 PM

KirstyChibiMoon

Dude I was in Italy from 95-98.

tiffanysharon

09-16-2007, 12:02 AM

WARNING I Have not spoke of the reason I was scared that someone at work would turn me in or tell someone else at work. But that Could be it. Do not tell anyone you do CD if you are in the military or work for the military.. When we say you never know who is seeing listing looking. I spent time in the military and one thing the military just like the goverment does they spy on YOU!!!! DO NOT ADMIT TO ANYTHING EVER!

Kaya

09-16-2007, 03:17 AM

Yeah, if you value your job, then do everything possible to keep it a secret. That doesn't necesarilly mean everyone in the military is out to get you. Most people probably wouldn't be bothered by it, but there are those few immature people that will make a huge deal out of it. As a result superiors will fear that it'll cause more trouble amongst fellow servicemembers and they'll definatley feel more obligated to do "something" about it. If you don't plan on making the military a career, just try to wait until your term is up, then you'll be free do whatever you please.

Jamie001

09-16-2007, 12:21 PM

It is interesting that the military allows tattoos, but if you get caught wearing pantyhose, you are toast. Why?

KandisTX

09-16-2007, 01:00 PM

It is interesting that the military allows tattoos, but if you get caught wearing pantyhose, you are toast. Why?

I am inclined to think there was a bit more to the story than the person was caught wearing pantyhose.. Unless they were wearing nothing else.

CDing while on active duty can be done. Like I said, I did it and when the Air Force found out about it, there was not repurcussions against me, I was sent overseas to Desert Storm and received an honorable discharge when I got back in late 1991.

Kandis:love:

dancinginthedark

09-16-2007, 08:34 PM

Thank you for all of your replies.

dancin
`

TxKimberly

09-16-2007, 09:13 PM

It is interesting that the military allows tattoos, but if you get caught wearing pantyhose, you are toast. Why?

Actually, uinless that has changed since I got out in 95, the US Army doesn't allow tattoos. Let me rephrase that, they do not allow you to get them. If you already had one that's OK. Ok, so thats the policy - the reality is everyone looks the other way.

Jamie001

09-16-2007, 09:22 PM

Too bad they don't look the other way regarding crossdressing. I guess it has to do with having to maintain the macho image.

Actually, uinless that has changed since I got out in 95, the US Army doesn't allow tattoos. Let me rephrase that, they do not allow you to get them. If you already had one that's OK. Ok, so thats the policy - the reality is everyone looks the other way.

kymmieLorain

09-16-2007, 10:38 PM

Well when I was in the AF I never wore "regulation" underwear, but unfortunately not panties. I did wear mens lingerie( if it can be called that) thongs, bikinis, g-strings. Even when at work in the field for 3 days I wore bikinis. Never had any problems.

Kymmie

jessbcuzz

09-17-2007, 12:45 AM

I was on active duty and the reserves for 10 years. I dressed every now and then in my room in the barracks. That was until I had a room mate. I think CDing would fall under the don't ask don't tell policy.

Lawren

09-17-2007, 08:15 AM

I am inclined to think there was a bit more to the story than the person was caught wearing pantyhose.. Unless they were wearing nothing else.

CDing while on active duty can be done. Like I said, I did it and when the Air Force found out about it, there was not repurcussions against me, I was sent overseas to Desert Storm and received an honorable discharge when I got back in late 1991.

Kandis:love:

That was 24 years ago. I have nothing to hide now. I was wearing pantyhose under men's shorts and nothing else fem. I was taken to the hospital for an exam so they could shove me right into the shrink's office.

jonnie64

09-17-2007, 05:44 PM

i spent 20 years in the navy in a career field that let's just say would not have been to happy about my CD'ing. i indulged when i could, but never, NEVER wore anything under my uniform.

malissa0311

09-17-2007, 10:10 PM

i just got out of the marines i did it behind closed doors and im sure i would have been discharged or charged under the ucmj just before i deployed to iraq we had a marine in my unit get into a little truble and when we went threw his things to send them home we found out that not only cd but he did a lot of crazy things with some crazy looking objects (ill leave it at that) when he was getting a bad conduct discharge his private life was menchond as part of the reason for being discharged

this all took part in 2004

KandisTX

09-18-2007, 08:58 PM

That was 24 years ago. I have nothing to hide now. I was wearing pantyhose under men's shorts and nothing else fem. I was taken to the hospital for an exam so they could shove me right into the shrink's office.

And that was why you were arrested. Wearing them under mens shorts, visible to the public. I'm not saying you were wrong, I'm saying that there had to have been a reason for it. I know when I was questioned as I posted earlier, they interrogated me for a few hours trying to find something that could/would warrant a courts martial and then dishonorable. They couldn't do it, so they had to allow me to fill my term and they just "barred" me from re-enlistment. ~shrug~ Oh well.. their loss ;)

Kandis:love:

Jocelyne

09-18-2007, 09:42 PM

I also found this link to the The Servicemembers Legal Defense Network that may be of help to any who are currently enlisted in the States.

http://www.sldn.org/templates/legalhelp/record.html?section=19&record=726

OK, so far that is the best info, I've seen posted. Since I just retired from the Marine Corps, cross/underdressed all that time, (20+years) I'll try to shed some light on this.

The article mainly addresses transitioning, but does briefly mention cross dressing. The rules vary by service, so I can only state what I experienced, but the other services should be similar.

The key is being cautious, very cautious.

I will start be saying that I did it on base, yes one base! Many a time, I went to work underdressed, you just have to know what the plan of the day is. Have to be aware of things like when the gas chamber is, what they are doing for PT etc. Never worried about inspections much, as they don't examine what you have on underneath. The only exception, might be what we call a "junk on the bunk" where you have everything you were issued on display, and they may check for markings on your undershirts and skivies(underwear), but those were rare and always advertised well in advance, as a commander never wanted to fail one of those.

Now, for the full cross dressing, you might be able to get by with that on base if you were single and you had a single room, but most have 2 - 3 to a room, so it would be a bit harder. Living in the on-base housing was different, I could do that all the time (well as long as the wife and kids weren't around)!

I was afraid of getting caught, but not discharged. The key is your performance, if you're constantly getting into trouble and can't keep up, then they look for any reason to get rid of you. On the other hand, if you can perform and keep up, no one ever looks for anything. As the article stated, they can always use the "conduct unbecoming" or the "general" articles of the UCMJ, but the key there is "cause" they have to have something else to go along with it. So again, the key is to stay out of trouble and do your job and no one ever has to know what color your panties are.

Well, hope that helps.
Jocelyne :2c:

Jamie001

09-18-2007, 10:31 PM

Never having been in the military, I find this to be an interesting thread and am trying to understand that rationale for disallowing any type of crossdressing. I am also aware that crossdressing is no longer considered to be a psychological illness in regard to obtaining a security clearance as long as you are honest about it. So why does the military seem to have a different view on crossdressing? Do they still believe that everyone that crossdresses is a homosexual? For that matter, why do they care if a person is homosexual as long as they don't make advances toward anyone that is in the military? Isn't there a rule regarding that anyway?

Bridget Fitzgerald

09-18-2007, 10:50 PM

They make your wig fit easier first thing when you get there ! :p

CD Tammy

09-19-2007, 04:30 AM

I was US Army from 1984 - 2004. First four years during college. There is no doubt that being outed would have ended my career. I was a closet crossdresser the whole time. I think I wore pantyhose under my uniform 90% of the time and sometimes more. In the winter I'd wear leotards, camisoles or body stockings.

Fortunately for me, I never had to give an article 15 for any crossdressing type behavior. I'm not certain I could have kept a straight face.

Now I wear frilly things under my work clothes...

LindaG

09-19-2007, 04:56 AM

I have a story for you when I was in the Marines. A gurl got caught in womens clothes. they took her to the sgtmajor. he looks her up and down notices thatshe is wearing flats, and says
why are you not wearing high heels. and told him that they hurt
her feet. then the MP.s took him to the main side macdonlds took off her wig in the resturant, with him cuffed and had lunch

KirstyChibiMoon

09-26-2007, 06:11 PM

Off duty, you are in a VERY grey area. I don't claim to be an expert on military law, but I do not think crossdressing is specifically addressed or prohibited. There are a number of other regulations that could be used against you IF someone wanted to push hard enough. Most of them would boil down to "Conduct Unbecoming of . . ", undesirable, unfit, etc.
I doubt very much any unit would tolerate someone doing it openly and repeatedly, like walking through the barracks every weekend in drag on your way out for a good time. In this case, even if they liked and respected you, I think most would feel obligated to process you out. All it would take is one close mided individual to be offended and push the issue
If you were not too blatant and were discreet, for instance people may know you do it but they don't see you, or someone catches you once, then it really does boil down to your chain of command. If they want to, I have zero doubt they can use it to get rid of you. If they like and respect you and your work ethic, they might be inclined to overlook it.
hmmm well thats odd...
i never had any warnings or investigations taken out on me while i served... and i have a top secret clearance too...
of course i was in a pansy aviation unit so maybe that doesnt count <giggles>

Patricia Danielle

09-27-2007, 01:29 AM

I think it sucks! Here we fight for rights and freedom of choice but in the military you have none. Whats wrong with this picture? Patricia..

Andrea Elva

09-27-2007, 06:09 AM

I do not know of any policy in the South African Defence force. Anyway there was an article that appeared in the Military mag concerning pantyhose to be issued to all troops as it is cold at night when they are on guard duty etc, the problem was that a colour could not be decided on, this is fact around 1980 I think. I do know of a transsexual that transitioned while serving and she is still working for the defence force but as a civilian now. That is support.
I served for my time some years ago, and there was often anti gay attitudes around camp...Cover ups for those who were uncertain of their own sexuality...During basic ther were two gay fellows in the barricks that i know of but they were "deep undercover"...no found out as far as I know.

DarcyAnne

09-27-2007, 07:11 AM

I served too, in the time of don't ask, don't tell. My sergeant told me that in one of his former units, they had an inspection and found a soldier's CD stash. They razzed him but left him in the service. I just wore hose to keep warm on guard duty in the winter.

dancinginthedark

09-27-2007, 08:14 AM

http://www.holtesq.com/military.htm

TRANSGENDER WARRIORS, PERSONNAE NON GRATA: AN OVERVIEW

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
USA uniform regulations. Please use with caution.

United States Navy Uniform Regulations can be accessed at this site or downloaded as a self-extracting zip file.

http://buperscd.technology.navy.mil/bup_updt/508/unireg/uregMenu.html

United States Army Uniform regulations available as an Adobe file here:

http://www.usapa.army.mil/pdffiles/r670_1.pdf

United States Marines Uniform regulations and all updates are available here:

http://www.marcorsyscom.usmc.mil/sites/mcub/

United States Air Force Uniform regulations

http://www.e-publishing.af.mil/shared/media/epubs/afi36-2903.pdf

Jocelyne

09-30-2007, 01:11 PM

Wow, dancinginthedark you are good. I have heard many of my Marines tell me they didn't know where to find the uniform regulations, but you found them for all the services. :thumbsup::thumbsup:

There are two issues, crossdressing, which is actually easier to do, now at leas, and then there's the transitioning which is where the tough battles come in.
In all those regulations, they don't really specify much detal on what type of under garments they have to be. For most it just uses generic terms, like briefs, boxers, crew-neck or v-neck and the colors white, black, brown or neutral. So If one wanted to, they could go to Victoria's Secret, buy some white briefs and a white crew-neck, marked them properly then technically there is nothing that could be done. Now of course they may try and send you to see a psychiatrist at that point. (I can provide some insight on how to safely do that in the Military latter if needed).
Transitioning on the other hand is much more complex, and the hardest thing to overcome, is that "technically" they look at ones body similar to how they look at "government property". An example would be that if I go to the beach and get a sever sunburn, the first time or two, they might might not say anything, but if I constantly am getting severely sunburned at the beach, then they probably will charge me with something as it will likely be taken as willful damage. Transitioning will most likely be taken the same way, in that one is willfully doing something that affects and prevents them from doing their duty for an extended period of time.
So, cross dressing isn't really that difficult, if approached smartly, but unfortunately, the military just hasn't quite warmed up to transitioning yet.

Jamie001

09-30-2007, 02:51 PM

Do you think that that world will ever be progressive enough that the military would allow males to wear female uniforms if they would like? The problem is that the military is the core of the macho-boy mentality! If they ever drop the macho crap then maybe crossdressing will be tolerated. What does everyone think?

Jaydee

09-30-2007, 02:56 PM

I was in the AF for 25 years. I did occasionally underdress with pantyhose under my flightsuit, when it was cold and I knew I would be in the office all day.

I just thought I would throw out something that might give you a laugh. When I was a flight instructor, and the AF was just starting to get women pilots, they changed the uniform regulation to require that all underwear had to be cotton only, because of the fire hazard of nylon. My female students complained how difficult it was to find cotton only bras, and how they didn't fit right. I just wondered who was supposed to inspect to ensure that they were wearing the appropriate type of underwear. The regulation lasted about a year or two then disappeared. LOL.:happy:

Jaydee

JoAnnDallas

10-01-2007, 08:34 AM

I read once that right after they started allowing women into Service Acadecies, the regulation stated that all cadets would wear slacks. Then when one of the first Cadet dances came along, the higher ups did not like seeing what looked like two male cadets dancing close together. So the regs were changed to allow female cadets to wear skirts at the dances.

Jocelyne qutoed:

in that one is willfully doing something that affects and prevents them from doing their duty for an extended period of time.

That was why many years ago, if a female service member got Pregnant, she had to leave military service. This was challanged and now they even have military Maturity clothing.

robbie

10-02-2007, 11:10 AM

1985 was the year I was caught. I served on subs. They gave me a choice of counceling and going to the surface fleet or an honorable discharge. My JA, Judge Advocate, for those who didn't know thought this was the best idea she had ever seen to have people which didn't want to be in the service be discharged with honor. I started wearing 24/7 after that. The only sad thing was I had a pair of black bikini panties with a mesh front. You would pay about 50+ dollars for them. They had the comed nylon gusset VF used to have. The most comfortable pair of panties I have ever had. I lost them in the move home. I know someone who cleaned the hotel room kept them. I hope she had many nights of great sex.

SaraD

10-05-2007, 06:50 PM

I just got couseling as part of the reenlistment proccess and was unaware of the policy as it was explained to me. But the Navy has a policy for discharging a member for homosexual acts only after being caught in the act not once but twice. I was flabergasted. Who knew? I brought up the crossdressing issue and the Navy has no policy on this as long as you are in uniform, you must wear uniform items, excluding underwear. This means you can wear panties as long as they are undetectable in uniform.