Hm, Fairy Tales (everybody's welcome)

[Marla S]

Just was knitting and watched Kill Bill Vol. 2 :D when a thought popped up (a new one for me).

Isn't listening to classical fairy tails (Brothers Grimm and the like) the first condensed experience we get with gender and gender roles, causing emotions and identification with the characters and genders?

If so, we should have a feeling for our place in gender land even before we know something about clothes (the dressed-and-got-hooked phase starting usually with about 4-5).
This could even hold true for the late bloomers.

My question:

What are your (most) early memories concerning fairy tales and yourself?
(Which one you remember best, which characters you identified with and the like)

Would be interesting to read what GGs, GMs, FTMs and MTFs have to say.

An additional question for those who have a deeper knowledge about gender studies:
Is there something like a study about this subject ?
If so, what's the conclusion ?



My answer: Well, I have to think about it, it is long, long, ago:D
A rough sketch:
In general I can say that most of the male characters are quite pale in my memory, whereas I can picture a lot of the female characters quite well in front of my inner eye.
And I think I had little princess dreams, before I actually started dressing.

[alysonatl]

I remember identifying with either Sleeping Beauty or Cindrerella, and being told that it wasn't "nice" for boys to play "make believe" as a girl character.

[Sheri 4242]

My question: What are your (most) early memories concerning fairy tales and yourself? (Which one you remember best, which characters you identified with and the like)

Marla: I don't have a clue where I heard this or where it came from, but when I was very little I recall hearing that if you could kiss your elbow you'd change your anatomical sex.

Tried it and tried it, but couldn't do it. :lol2:


In general I can say that most of the male characters are quite pale in my memory, whereas I can picture a lot of the female characters quite well in front of my inner eye. And I think I had little princess dreams, before I actually started dressing.

Ditto!!! The beautiful princess type girl characters stand out so vividly in my mind's eye!!! I would have loved to have dressed as "Alice."

[Marla S]

Marla: I don't have a clue where I heard this or where it came from, but when I was very little I recall hearing that if you could kiss your elbow you'd change your anatomical sex.

Tried it and tried it, but couldn't do it. :lol2:
You tell that now ?
In my younger days I've been more flexible, but now
:kiss: urggghhhh :kiss: aaarrrrrghhhhh
Can't reach my elbow :wall::wall::witsend:

[Tamara Croft]

Oh it has to be Cinderella, from as early as I can remember, I have always loved that classic story and of course the movie. I think I identified more with her, because of her situation, step sisters that were mean, my step father was (not now tho)... she had a wicked step mother, reminded me of my nana... it's hard to explain I guess...

[Veronica E. Scott]

The one that sticks out the most in my mind is Snow White and the seven dwarfs. I was always taking care or someone.Brothers or sisters and changing a lot of diapers. there were 7 of us and I was the 2nd oldest the job always fell to me for some reason. sure wanted Snow Whites dress.

[PaulaJaneThomas]

Badger in Wind In The Willows (best book ever written).

[Rosaliy Lynne]

althoough I don't recall every identifying with any single character more than any other, it is noteworthy that the male characters ALWAYS had to prove something or rescue someone while the women spent their time waiting for someone to defend or rescue them.

On the other hand, whether in movies or books, I do relate to strong women characters who are not defined by men but rather by their own efforts.

[Lisa Golightly]

Knitting whilst watching Kill Bill.... Mmmmmmmmmmmmm... Very interesting.

TBH I can't remember being told any fairytales... My earliest memories are of television and of identifying with men who dressed as women... Oh, and wanting to be a chorus girl on one of those saturday evening spectaculars... It was only later it all became wrong and not allowed, not that I paid any particular attention to that as you can tell. :)

[Deanna2]

I guess that I relate more to Goldilocks and the Three Bears better than, say, Jack and the Beanstalk. My early reading was Famous Five and Secret Seven. Then I moved on to Biggles and others such as Boy's Own Annual.

[Joy Carter]

Anybody recall Hayley Mills in Poly Anna ?
Not exactly a fairy tale but I idolized her. Red hair with pig tails and freckles.:D

[KatieZ]

Bugs inspired me!

[Daintre]

Although not a fairy tale I remember this from childhood:

What are Little Girls made of....Sugar and spice and everything nice......

Boys, not so much....Snipes and snails and puppy dog tails....

I always thought that I preferred what the girls were made of, so I choose Girl please

[dancinginthedark]

Don't remember anyone reading any to me but do recall those Disney specials from time to time. I remember wishing I was as beautiful as Cinderella and I really really wanted a princess dress. I wasn't as knocked out by all the work she had to do or how mean her family was to her.

Wishing I could be Peter Pan even if he was a boy because he could fly. [Concepts like male and female were still pretty limited for me at that age] I recall my mother made a comment I could not be Peter because I was a girl. But at time I stomped my Mary-jane's and insisted, "I can too be a boy if I want." :hmph:

Oh and I wanted to have magic like Tinker Bell. :fairy1:And being petite would have been cool too, well maybe not quiet that petite. :p

dancin
`

[Ann D Bluebird]

No, I'm not picking this because I think I'm ugly (ugly is as ugly does, I reckon Forrest Gump may say!!!) just averagely Ok looking, but because I always felt some empathy for the poor little "ugly" duckling......I have often felt a little like the odd one out. Now maybe this is just sympathy-for-the-outsider. On the other hand, maybe if I'd mixed with a more ilke minded folk....like I can now do here :happy: things might have been different for me sooner.

Then there is Sleeping Beauty, awaiting her awakening....(although for me I'd have been waiting for Princess Charming....!)

[KimberlyS]

Bugs inspired me!

Katie, I am glad I was not the only one. Most of the cartoons had at least one if not more episodes with main cartoon character in some type of drag.

But the ones I like the most were the ones with some type of princess in them wearing a beautiful dress or gown. Sleeping Beauty, Cinderella, Snow White, and more current Shrek. The shows and movies feed my softer feminine side along with getting to see the lovely clothes.

[Deborah Jane]

I think the wolf in Little Red Riding Hood inspired me, especially at the end when he turned out to be a crossdresser:heehee:

[My Lady Marsea]

[QUOTE=Sheri 4242;1011431]Marla: I don't have a clue where I heard this or where it came from, but when I was very little I recall hearing that if you could kiss your elbow you'd change your anatomical sex.

Tried it and tried it, but couldn't do it. :lol2:



If I EVER dislocate or break my shoulder I 'll try this before they fix me 'cause the pain would be worth it LOL.

[Marla S]

... it's hard to explain I guess...
That's why I asked :D
I am myself not quite sure about the whats, whys, and ifs.
My assumption is/was that the emotions or memories one has concerning fairy tales and related stories tell something about the self, because otherwise one probably wouldn't memorize a particular character, story or mood. But it's hard to nail it down.


The one that sticks out the most in my mind is Snow White and the seven dwarfs. I was always taking care or someone.Brothers or sisters and changing a lot of diapers. there were 7 of us and I was the 2nd oldest the job always fell to me for some reason. sure wanted Snow Whites dress.
There is one phrase that is absolutely vivid in my memory:
"... skin white as snow, lips red as blood, and hair black as ebony."
A type of femininity I still find very attractive.
Blond and tanned looks good but ....


Badger in Wind In The Willows (best book ever written).
I missed that one :straightface:


althoough I don't recall every identifying with any single character more than any other, it is noteworthy that the male characters ALWAYS had to prove something or rescue someone while the women spent their time waiting for someone to defend or rescue them.
Yep, that's one of the typical patterns.
Stereotypical gender roles. That's why I think how one experienced them tells something.


On the other hand, whether in movies or books, I do relate to strong women characters who are not defined by men but rather by their own efforts.
Don't know if 'strong women' is the right word for me.
I'd rather would say independent female characters.
Somehow The Little Mermaid comes to mind. I hardly can remember the plot though.



Knitting whilst watching Kill Bill.... Mmmmmmmmmmmmm... Very interesting.
Could be worse.
I am glad that I didn't shed blood whilst watching a knitting show. :D


TBH I can't remember being told any fairytales... My earliest memories are of television and of identifying with men who dressed as women... Oh, and wanting to be a chorus girl on one of those saturday evening spectaculars... It was only later it all became wrong and not allowed, not that I paid any particular attention to that as you can tell.
No, not really.


I guess that I relate more to Goldilocks and the Three Bears better than, say, Jack and the Beanstalk. My early reading was Famous Five and Secret Seven. Then I moved on to Biggles and others such as Boy's Own Annual.
Arrrghh, never being told or read those.
If read The Three Investigators but only remember the caravan as their headquarter .... what ever that means :thinking:



Anybody recall Hayley Mills in Poly Anna ?
Not exactly a fairy tale but I idolized her. Red hair with pig tails and freckles.
Nope, sorry, never heard of it. Probably wasn't very known over here.



What are Little Girls made of....Sugar and spice and everything nice......

Boys, not so much....Snipes and snails and puppy dog tails....

I always thought that I preferred what the girls were made of, so I choose Girl please
Yep the girls are made of and have all the good things :heehee:



Wishing I could be Peter Pan even if he was a boy because he could fly. [Concepts like male and female were still pretty limited for me at that age] I recall my mother made a comment I could not be Peter because I was a girl. But at time I stomped my Mary-jane's and insisted, "I can too be a boy if I want."

Oh and I wanted to have magic like Tinker Bell. And being petite would have been cool too, well maybe not quiet that petite.

dancin
I think I've been 11 when I saw Mia Farrow as Peter Pan (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sGdXUmy3zA&mode=related&search=) in an widely unknown 1976 TV movie.
What can I say, I was hooked. Not so because of the plot, but I guess rather because of the 'gender blend'. I think this movie kind of paved my way for me.
I remember that the first fem item I bought about the same time (maybe a year later) was a green pantyhose.:heehee:

BTW: Time for a new avatar :D.



No, I'm not picking this because I think I'm ugly (ugly is as ugly does, I reckon Forrest Gump may say!!!) just averagely Ok looking, but because I always felt some empathy for the poor little "ugly" duckling......I have often felt a little like the odd one out. Now maybe this is just sympathy-for-the-outsider. On the other hand, maybe if I'd mixed with a more ilke minded folk....like I can now do here things might have been different for me sooner.

Then there is Sleeping Beauty, awaiting her awakening....(although for me I'd have been waiting for Princess Charming....!)
I don't have much memories about the Ugly Duckling, but it could be because I felt a bit like the odd one out too and repressed it.


But the ones I like the most were the ones with some type of princess in them wearing a beautiful dress or gown. Sleeping Beauty, Cinderella, Snow White, and more current Shrek. The shows and movies feed my softer feminine side along with getting to see the lovely clothes.
My early memories don't really circle around clothes, though I probably could tell a lot about how they are described in the stories. It's kind of the mood the characters spread.


Bugs inspired me!
First cartoon show we got over here was The Porky Pork Show.
I only remember the big uproar by the pedagogues, because they thought this show is too violent for children:rolleyes:
Hardly have any other memory than ... pink ... a pink pork :heehee:


I think the wolf in Little Red Riding Hood inspired me, especially at the end when he turned out to be a crossdresser
That fairy tail really scared me, almost as much as The Goose Girl (her horse's head cut off and hanging on a wall whilst still speaking)

[Rosaliy Lynne]

Don't remember anyone reading any to me but do recall those Disney specials from time to time. I remember wishing I was as beautiful as Cinderella and I really really wanted a princess dress. I wasn't as knocked out by all the work she had to do or how mean her family was to her.

Wishing I could be Peter Pan even if he was a boy because he could fly. [Concepts like male and female were still pretty limited for me at that age] I recall my mother made a comment I could not be Peter because I was a girl. But at time I stomped my Mary-jane's and insisted, "I can too be a boy if I want." :hmph:

Oh and I wanted to have magic like Tinker Bell. :fairy1:And being petite would have been cool too, well maybe not quiet that petite. :p

dancin
`

I wonder if your mother ever realized that Peter Pan was played my Mary Martin.


Bugs inspired me!

I never gave it all that much thought but I do recall the fun that the cartoon chaaracters had being dressed. Certainly was a safe way to open ones eyes to cross dressing since no one would ever take a cartoon character seriously.


Katie, I am glad I was not the only one. Most of the cartoons had at least one if not more episodes with main cartoon character in some type of drag.

But the ones I like the most were the ones with some type of princess in them wearing a beautiful dress or gown. Sleeping Beauty, Cinderella, Snow White, and more current Shrek. The shows and movies feed my softer feminine side along with getting to see the lovely clothes.

Oh yes. All those lovelies had the most beautiful clothes.

I love Princess Fiona ... as an ogress. I rather thought she was beautiful and sexy. Of course I think Miss Piggy is sexy too. And lest anyone miss it, these submissive appearing ladies also have a tough, no-nonsense, I can take care of myself, side that also appeals to me.

[jonnie64]

I know its not a fairy tale, but I remember the first time I saw the Wizard of Oz, I may have been six.... When Glinda rode down in her bubble and stepped into munchkin land, I COVETED her dress!!! wow............I still do!!!