Husband/wife roles - down the drain!

[Sejd]

It had to happen. My wife finally decides she can no longer play the wife while I have turned into her girlfriend. And how could I possibly blame her. It's another one of those BIG shifts though. I spent a week in Europe and when I came back, the tables had turned. On the positive side, giving up being the imaginary guy around, I can be fully who I am, and my now "Best friend" (no longer wife) likes me much better as a happy girlfriend, instead of a tormented Trannie. There are no plans of splitting up, but time will tell how our lives all develop. You know, the word "Develop" is latin and mean : to uncover. I feel we (my sweetheart and I) are both in an uncovering process. Very difficult, but at the same time quite amazing. :tongueout

[GypsyKaren]

I know that for Kat and I, our relationship has transitioned as much as I have. It's changed a lot from years ago, but it's all been for the good and we're closer than we've ever been. I know that most couples break up over this, but that was something we never allowed to come up as an option, and it's a real shame that more can't or won't do the same.

Karen Starlene

[penni]

Hi ya,
My partner and I have been together for 15 years and we have 4 sons and I have 2 daughters from a previous marriage.
Over the last 24 months much has changed in our relationship,some for the better and from my side of things,some for the not so best.
Marie has changed so quickly and for a while there, it was almost as though she would not let me mourn the husband lost.In fact within 4 months of beginning her transition she was telling me to just get over it..I really hated her for that..I thought how cruel you are,so in secret I cried,in the shower,the toilet...I cried like a baby.
Now many told me straight out get out while you can..how selfish she is and much much more.The hardest thing for me at that time was that I did understand,I had read,I had listened to her and I could feel the pain.So whilst she was coming out of suppression I began to suppress my feelings about her transition..I became spiteful..so one day I said to her I have much to say and here it goes...I blasted her,.I told her I hated the way I had to be the one who should bare all this on my shoulders,tell the kids,tell the family,explain what is happening why and how..and all the time feeling extremely hurt,lost and vulnerable.
All she could do was cry...I want you and the kids in my life..now I have never wanted Marie to be away from her children,i still loved this person,so I just could'nt walk out on her..but then there was just so many issues I had to face..and so I began my own journey.
In the last 24 months I have changed somewhat..I am stronger and I am making sure my feelings are heard and that the children are being heard,..after all they are hurting as well.They love their dad in the physical sense and they are now starting to Love Maddy.I know for sure I am not Gay..I have tried believe you me ,by having intimate moments with Marie,,,but it just is'nt me.
We are friends ,no longer lovers,we have discussed having an open marriage and at this point in time I don't see me ever having another guy..which does make my eyes...weep as I write.But then I am torn and Marie is torn that we both could'nt live apart from each other.So parenting we share,household duties I still do,hopefully I will find a job soon with the hours I need.But we both don't want each other to sacrifice our lives.So as I said before I am on a journey of re-invention..and finding out who I am..this will make me stronger and a better person..and who now's down the track when marie and I are ready,and have completed our transition and re-invention ,we may find ourselves still together or apart..but I know we will be really,really great friends,whatever the future holds.
We owe it to each other to give our relationship the best chance....the more we learn about ourselves the stronger together we will be...whatever the outcome.



Hugs Penny

[tori-e]

As for the traditional roles, I don't know that things have changed that much. She still cooks, we both clean and do laundry. I've always done the toilets and clean the gutters. She has always handled the money and I take the cars for oil changes. I did hear recently that I haven't mown the lawn in two years. Busted! And after all this time, I still have to take out the garbage. Geez!

We've been planning a small vacation for our 30th anniversary and someone mentioned to me, "How will you explain being married for 30 years?" I didn't understand at first, but she was referring to the fact that there was no gay marriage in 1977. I never thought of that. That people see us a lesbian couple, now that's a role shift.

Terri

[penni]

Hi ya Tori-e,

Here in Australia we do not have a law that allows same sex marriage.
Since Marie has come out ,I have struggled to find couples that are still together,sadly they all part.
It is lovely to hear that you and your partner are celebrating 30 years of marriage soon.Marie and I have been married for 15 years,and I hope that we have many more.
We still are going thr ough the push pull thing,I am still mourning husband lost...she wants me to get over it, she does'nt want me to say when I am feeling low,why I feel low....it does'nt happen everyday,used to happen weekly for me,were I would cry,now it seems to be monthly...her not wanting to hear it and getting quite angry is probably the only thing that will push me away from her.In fact it proves to me that some of the old her still resides within..that angry resentful person.

I am extremely supportive,everyday I am supportive,telling her how great she looks,or look how far you have come,you are so strong you can achieve anything..lifting her spirits, or reminding her that yes people do find it difficult to understand so be patient ,however from her I get deal with it etc etcwhen I feel myself just tread watering.I would like to know from you and others who are still together ,how you got through one partners mourning.For those that are in Transition did you comfort her,did you listen,or did it just make you angry.Did you feel her mourning or her talking to you about her feeling of loss,did you say you were sorry this was happening to her,did you tell her it is o.k to feel this way.

Sorry to ramble on,had a bad morning this morning.Things have been going really,really well for the last few months,almost normal really.Then last night out of the blue,I really missed the closeness of marc my husband...that then led me into the children the youngest who is 7 not having a male role model .Well Marie had been out at the beauty therapist for 2 hours and when she got home I was distant...did'nt have the energy to tell her why at 11.00pm .Today or this morning I showed her an article written by Dianne Wilson for wives and significant others of Transsexuals.It talks about the feelings you have and how they do even years later can pop up out of the blue.I wanted Marie to read it,however she was of to work.
I need her so desperately to see that all the emotions I go through are also a journey and they need to be justfied as they are real.I need her to accept and not get angry,that these feelings are normal for a spouse such as myself.I need her to understand that I don't just pluck them out to cause her grief or rub her nose in it because she is transitioning..they just come..you feel that surge and bang there it is.

Hugs Penny

[Vivian Best]

We still are going thr ough the push pull thing,I am still mourning husband lost...she wants me to get over it, she does'nt want me to say when I am feeling low,why I feel low....it does'nt happen everyday,used to happen weekly for me,were I would cry,now it seems to be monthly...her not wanting to hear it and getting quite angry is probably the only thing that will push me away from her.In fact it proves to me that some of the old her still resides within..that angry resentful person.

Hugs Penny

Hi Penny,

You are a very special person to be so tolerant of Marie and the way she treats you! If I were in your shoes I think I would hit her when she says "get over it". She has to realize that she may go through more physical trama than you, But you go through just as much or maybe more emotional trama than she. I hope she remembers that she is achieving a long sought goal and you are losing what you thought was a life time relationship with a husband.

[penni]

Thankyou Vivianne,

Sometimes I do feel I just want to slap her..but thats not me..always been the peace keeper even as a child.

What I find as Marie transitions is how quick she can forget that we were ever husband and wife,despite our 4 sons.For Marie she can't understand my pain,because for her the Husband ,Father thing was a huge strain and an act she needed to do ,so no one knew her secret self.
In the many arguments that we had early in transition..she would always say..it was your dream..to be married..your dream Pen,I was living a nightmare of sheer hell.Now my reponse was WHY THEN GET MARRIED...why not just tell me the truth,why keep having children with me...It was I that wanted many,many children..Her responce is that she felt loved,that someone loved them for who they were.
When we first met Marie was Crossdressing and contemplating Transition,she had been on hormones for about 2 to 3 months...now when we started to fall in love,she stopped everything.I asked her over and over is this what you want,are you sure..she would always reply with yes..I am happy,sometime later she asked me to marry her.Now the strange thing is she never spoke of transition again,I would ask...are you happy are you sure this is what you want..she seemed very happy,we were renovating our home and Ben our son was born.Marie was over the moon,the girls were over the moon,everything was fantastic .The other strange aspect of the relationship was that she never dressed again,or at least in front of me..I have always been an accepting partner and would often say..you used to dress ,now you don't.

In fact all through the relationship,she has asked me if I was happy,what makes me Happy.I always responded,my family is what makes me Happy as this is all I have ever wanted.

So 24 months ago when we moved from the country back to Perth..I had no idea what was to happen a month from moving.Valentines day came,I got the biggest bunch of roses,cards and chocolates,1 weeklater Marie tells me she no longer can keep this act up...she needs to transition it is a life or death situation.Now when she said this I blamed myself for her pain..but at the time I met Marie also,I did'nt really understand what a Transsexual was...but still I blamed myself.
At that time I could'nt see a future because all of a sudden I went into carers mode..Marie had since that day tried to take her life.I was trying to keep myself together for the kids,whilst she fell into a heap of tears and emotion.We had hours and hours of talks,we spent hours in each others arms and days apart from each other,not getting close at all.
I have read as much as I can,I have been on every forum..asking questions galore..I wanted to know the insides and outsides of everything.I went with Marie to the Specialist for many,many visits,asking questions etc.I needed to be sure ,I needed to hear that there is no other road for her or us.

I have had many hours just thinking,about me, the kids.I have never wanted much out of life,just to be the best person I can be,but most of all I wanted a family who would love each other,be there for each other,working as a team to make our little part of the world a special place to be.
I did'nt want that to end,so Ineeded to know what Marie had planned for herself..as transiton is solo and once suppression is lifted you really see a new person.She wanted her family as much as I did...so I needed her first to take responsibility in talking to the children as well as me..because up to that point it was me doing all the talking to friends,kids,family,Teachers etc.So slowly she has become the best parent ever and the best friend ever,she listens to the kids now,rather than telling them well this just has to be and you need to try and understand.She is trying to listen and be more empathetic when I do have those moments of sadness. As I have told her and still do tell her,everyone deals with this news differently,it may take some a short time to understand the context of what is happening,it make take a life time,however through all this she must be patient and she must be willing to communicate to them when they seek answers to questions.She needed to take responsibility for her journey not mine.Just as much as I have to be reponsible for my journey in finding out more about Penny a 43 yearold who knows life as mother...not really much else.

Right now for us as I said before we still have the push pull thing happening,,probably will for sometime to come.However most days now,life has slipped into normality,which is great,the kids call daddy Maddy,sometimes they say dad out in the shops and Marie gets rather angry,however I just remind her of what they have known,how old they are..and that she should'nt be embarressed after all she is dad.I need her to understand that if they shout out dad in the shops they are not purposely trying to make life difficult,in fact I often say what you need to do is making their life a little difficult...again I say give them time...and if anyone asks why they call out dad to you..then what a perfect opportunity to educate another member of the public.

So I am still with Marie because i still love her,I am having my own issues on how people see us,but everyday I realise that other people don't really care.We love our children together and though life has been a strain,I know that they will come out stronger than ever,they will be the next generation to help educate,they will know what is empathy,they will know what diversity is and how to accept it.

Gosh I could keep talking ..but I would take up to much space.
Just thankyou for listening.

Hugs Penny
Spouse to Marie MTF TS,mother to 4 boys,2 girls,
www.chameleonswa.com

[tori-e]

Hi ya Tori-e,

I would like to know from you and others who are still together ,how you got through one partners mourning.For those that are in Transition did you comfort her,did you listen,or did it just make you angry.Did you feel her mourning or her talking to you about her feeling of loss,did you say you were sorry this was happening to her,did you tell her it is o.k to feel this way.


Did I say I was sorry? For several months I was apologising about every five minutes. I really felt like a huge <four letter word for feces>

For us the biggest thing was communications. We talked for hours on end for weeks and months about this before anybody else knew. Mostly we talked in bed in the dark and sometimes stayed up very late. For me, the person transitioning, this is something I'd be thinking about and wanting my whole life. For her, it was new and really something she didn't want. Taking things slow, at what seemed like a snails pace to me, gave her time to catch up and get used to things. We talked a lot about every step and considered our options before I did anything. Having her keep me grounded was key to my success. I don't really understand the mourning. Probably anymore than she understands having GID. I'm still here. But we talk about and try to understand each others feelings. We talked a lot about the five stages of dying. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%BCbler-Ross_model Later she was aware that she had gone through them all. So it really is a type of loss. I think my adult son went through the same thing.

I don't think I ever got angry for her emotions. I encouraged her to let it all out. If you plan on staying together the two of you have to transition. It's not just about me.


Sorry to ramble on,

This is the place for rambling. No apologies.

[melissaK]

The narrative of Penni and the reference to stages of grieving by Tori-e, both have a symmetry with Sedj's original post about being in the process of "uncovering." A nice thread to read.

Life is not static. We try so hard to make it so. Yet, it changes. The people around us change. Our jobs change. The world changes. Our kids grow up. Our parents pass away. Change is indeed manifest and there's nothing we can do about it. How we cope and adjust and accept the new days changes is what life is all about.

For us, we have this gender change issue. As it changes us, it brings a change everyone around us has to accept in some way or another. And in the end the gender change is not much different than the many other changes which will befall us in our lifetimes.

Congrats on 30 years Tori-e. You and your SO are obvioulsy pretty adept at accepting and adapting to change.

hugs,
'lissa
__________________________________________________ _______
"You get what anyone gets, you get a lifetime." -- Neil Gaiman

[penni]

Hi ya Melissa,

I agree with you that life does change,that it is a natural occurence in many situations and some that are not in our hands,and yes we do need to adapt if we are to be happy and survive.

if it was just Marie and myself I feel the change and the stages that one goes through as a spouse may not be as they are right now.
When you are responsible for little individuals who have yet to discover themselves,their dislikes and likes it can be very different.
It is easier when one has elder children,which I have 2 ,girls 18 and 21..they have found it easier and as they have said it is easier because Marie is not their biological father.
The boys however are aged 6 up to 13,one child has Aspergers which is a form of Autism..and he has difficulty understanding or copeing with change at the best of times.
Also for most Aspergers people their is no grey it is either black and white.

Though this change in Marie brings much in the way of positives..it also takes away from the children their rights..For example my 13 year old said once..if dad knew he was a Transsexual then why have children,he has taken away my right to have a Father,it is not like my friends whose parents are seperated or divorced.....
So I am having to understand from where my children are coming from,seeing from their point of view.They know Marie loves them very much and that she is there for them.
So you see change is not always that easy or adaptable..sometimes other circumstances prevent or stall the adaption to change..for example our son Chris with Aspergers.Does'nt mean the adaption won't happen for him,it just may take a very long time.

Hugs Penny

[Cara Allen]

This has some real relevance for me, as I just gained acceptance from my wife for my transition. Her initial reaction was, "Well, no one ever thinks about me! What my needs are!" My reaction to that was, well what about my needs? I realized this could go on for ever, and I left things be for a couple of weeks. When I brought up the issue again (my therapist insisted,) she was more accepting. She has known this was a distinct possibility for quite some time. We are older now, and our relationship has changed with time. Our kids are grown, our life together is good... At our age, sex is not really an issue. When you tally these things, our age has kind of negated most of the things that get in the way of transition. The issues that existed 10 years ago are just not in play anymore. The clinic that I want to attend for gender assistance is more conducive to older transitioners. At first, I was kind of insulted, but after considering these things, it kind of makes sense that they might be.

However, it is still hard for her to understand why I must do this, but she is getting closer to understanding deep inside, what makes me tick. Logic takes time to be removed from emotion. It is also hard for me to understand what still remains that would make her resistant to this, but there is alot. She is loosing her husband. The specific things that make that a core problem are sex, parenting, being the major provider. Some things remain the same at this point in our lives, transitioning nonwithstanding... friendship, emotional support.

I guess that I am glad I waited as long as I did, but there is no reason that a transgendered should put their life on hold for 10-15 years... that is a prison sentence. In retrospect though, I am glad I did. Things are so much less complicated now. I have always had a huge concience about making this terrorizing decision. My concience is clearer now. I think I can do this much easier with the other baggage gone or behind us, and I think she can, too. I considered this back then, and just...could...not...do it. It left me feeling empty inside. I would have lost too much that was too important.

The other night, when we discussed it again, I asked her to consider our lives now, and to think about, really, what will change. I do not think that I will be very different. I know that many here will take exception with that statement, but really, I will have the same politics, the same jokes, the same snoring, the same agreement that she drives everywhere when we are together. I will be more sensitive, more caring (more emotional.) but as people grow older together, that is what they need, want, and usually get. Having transition in this period of my life has many down sides... but there is also positives. Always. I think that we can work this through. I must make a concerted effort to not be an ass, and to try to deeply understand.

Thanks to everyone, especially Penni, for sharing their private parts. I know I benefitted, alot.

[Tiffy]

I realise I am not TS. But my wife and I have switched roles as well. I have been her stay at home housewife for 5 years. The first 2 years I was the stay at home hubby that dressed. Now, I am the housewife, and I cook, clean, laundry, dress daily, decorate, balance our books and pay our bills. She works and comes home to relax. And we are both fine with it and love it greatly. Though we do not intend to change anything else, it just fits us. She is not the homemaker type. I am not the punch a time clock type. So in home roles are reversed excpet I still make all the desicions. I am not sure this is realvant but I wanted to share and say that I am happy for you. And our roles all seem to change to fit us as we change.

Tiffany

[Sejd]

Seems like I can relate a lot to you Tiffany, I am not considering a sex change, but like to live as a woman anyway. I am also the stay at home kinda girl who likes mending the laundry and keep the house tidy. My wife is now persuing a PHd, and she has my full support. Life keeps changing indeed. We still love each other to pieces, and who knows. Maybe it's true that love can survive everything. At least gender switches. Who knows?
hugs
Sejd

[Tree GG]

...When you are responsible for little individuals who have yet to discover themselves,their dislikes and likes it can be very different.
It is easier when one has elder children,which I have 2 ,girls 18 and 21..they have found it easier and as they have said it is easier because Marie is not their biological father.

...For example my 13 year old said once..if dad knew he was a Transsexual then why have children,he has taken away my right to have a Father,it is not like my friends whose parents are seperated or divorced.....
So I am having to understand from where my children are coming from,seeing from their point of view.They know Marie loves them very much and that she is there for them.
So you see change is not always that easy or adaptable..sometimes other circumstances prevent or stall the adaption to change..for example our son Chris with Aspergers.Does'nt mean the adaption won't happen for him,it just may take a very long time.

Hugs Penny

So far D says he doesn't want to transition, but I think my 18 yr old daughter sees no difference between CD & TS.

That "protect mode" is a killer in this circumstance: protect the spouse AND protect the child. There is not right/wrong; worst/best choice; only shades of grey. And the person you had always counted on to to help with those grey parenting decisions is now biased.

Most days I'm sympathetic to both sides - others I'm mad as hell at both of them for not working this out.

I have yet to find the win-win. Right now, all we can do is keep looking.

Tree

[Sejd]

right now, that's all we have anyway. The problem with the pain we cause our children is not impossible to solve. I think that the younger the children are, the more difficult it is for sure.
Our kids are in their twenties, and they have accepted that there is no way I can fight the way I am as a Trans-Sexual. they are not crazy about the thought that their dad now wears a skirt, but they understand, from their own development into adult human beings, that we all need to do what we are called to do. I think as a golden rule it is safe to say: since we are the ones changing so radically, we are also the ones who need to show extra compassion and understanding to our spouse and children.
hugs
Sejd

[Cara Allen]

God, this is difficult.

Having children does not mean that you become Shel Silversteins Tree... giving and giving, until all you become is a stump for them to sit on. More akin to a tree that creates apples, drops them, gives them shade and protection until they begin their lives. After that responsibility, you still are a tree, and you go on living.