%^&*$#@

[CaptLex]

****! I just got word that my passport application was rejected. :Angry3: They want me to provide proof that I've had surgery or that I'm planning to have it before they can change my passport. Grrrrr!

Guess that means I'll have to travel as a girl - even if I look like a boy. Or maybe I'll be like Elvis and never leave the country. :rolleyes:

I'm beyond bummed out right now - where's the rum? :sad:

[Adam]

that sucks lex :hugs: its not right

i got told the same thing too :sad:

[SirTrey]

OMG.....That is the most ridiculous thing I have heard in a long time....Government interfering in our personal lives and wanting to SUPERVISE it again....Dude, you have facial hair, a deep voice, and take TESTOSTERONE....I, for one, am outraged....and really sorry to hear it, man. :(

[Kieron Andrew]

****! I just got word that my passport application was rejected. :Angry3: They want me to provide proof that I've had surgery or that I'm planning to have it before they can change my passport. Grrrrr!

Guess that means I'll have to travel as a girl - even if I look like a boy. Or maybe I'll be like Elvis and never leave the country. :rolleyes:

I'm beyond bummed out right now - where's the rum? :sad:

grrrr!!!!! not fair at least over here if we decide to stay non op we can apply for a gender recognition certificate to prove we are under supervision for gender issues/transitional stuff i.e on T, also we can ask our docs for letter to state we are in transition

im so sorry Lex

[Kieron Andrew]

that sucks lex :hugs: its not right

i got told the same thing too :sad:

how come you got rejected Adam, didnt you send a letter with proof from Charing Cross?

[Adam]

how come you got rejected Adam, didnt you send a letter with proof from Charing Cross?


no because i have not asked cx for a letter for the passport i should do really and see what they say about it or i could leave it untill hormones work some more. my passport sucks its in a draw annoying me being wrong

[Kieron Andrew]

no because i have not asked cx for a letter for the passport i should do really and see what they say about it or i could leave it untill hormones work some more. my passport sucks its in a draw annoying me being wrong

Chx WILL provide you with proof, ask them next time you are there or write to them

[Marla S]

Oh sh**:om:
rum
:drink:
:drink::drink:
:drink::drink::drink:
:drink::drink:
:drink:

[nikki_t]

That really is a bummer. I am so sorry. :(

[Tobie]

That really sucks!

[Syr_SwitchyGQ]

That's a load of stinking bullsh*t Lex! I'm sorry :hugs:

Here's a :drink: on me.

[Kris]

I'm confused, are you in the US ? I am only asking that because in Oregon you can get a drivers license in your name before surgery, so I don't understand what the difference is here?

Anyway you slice it, it really isn't fair and I am so sorry to hear that you are being discriminated against.

:hugs: Kris

[MJ]

Dear captain

Welcome to my world ... That really sucks! ... any tips on going to the USA as a boy ?

[Cai]

Stupid government and their old-fashioned rules. :mad:

I wonder if they realize how much trouble it is to ask you to travel with non-matching IDs? Or the fact that since you've got a BEARD, the TSA agent might not accept your female ID? :mad:

Anyway, whose business is it what shape your genitals are?!

[BarbaraTalbot]

****! I just got word that my passport application was rejected. :Angry3: They want me to provide proof that I've had surgery or that I'm planning to have it before they can change my passport. Grrrrr!

Guess that means I'll have to travel as a girl - even if I look like a boy. Or maybe I'll be like Elvis and never leave the country. :rolleyes:

I'm beyond bummed out right now - where's the rum? :sad:


This is the same country that decided in ROE v WADE not that a woman has a right to an abortion or not that a fetus isn't a human with rights, no they dodged and decided since only a woman and her Doctor needed to know what she was doing that it was a "right to privacy" issue. How, then can they inquire about ones genitals, if they cant inquire about how you use them???????????

What possible difference to security can an M or an F on a form make. A form with fingerprint, (not a D!@K print!!!) a picture and in the future a retinal scan?????

yet in the name of Cultural and Ethnic sensitivity, any Hispanic (who often have maternal and paternal surnames) can interchange them at will. Any Asian can choose either western convention of family name last or the other way around like it is done in Asia. Any Arab can and El or Al to his name (or drop same) and befuddle the computers. For that matter change your name entirely and get any number of sub Saharan countries to issue you one. Not a slap at ethnicities, just pointing out their absurd sense of when to ask and when to look the other way.

Passports are a JOKE. My dad said a lot of dumb things but one gem I keep. Locks are intended to keep honest people honest.

Aren't you glad I was feeling soft and gentle and held back the vitriol I really feel?

[kerrianna]

Aarrghhhh!!!!!! :ap: That's just bureaucratic BS.

That does it! Lex, you're just gonna have to become a pirate in real life. Pirates don't need passports! :raspp:



I'm really sorry Lex. I know how important it is to you. :hugs::hugs::hugs:

you too Adam :hugs::hugs::hugs:




You should take the entire crew over to their offices to 'correct' their mistake.

55414

[Kate Simmons]

Bummer Lex. Just another "benefit" of homeland security. Need I say more?

[Cai]

How, then can they inquire about ones genitals, if they cant inquire about how you use them???????????


Sadly enough, in some states, they still can inquire into use of genitals. Sodomy is still illegal in places (meaning anything other than standard hetero relations). I remember at least one case of a woman being denied a state job in NC after mentioning that she was marrying her lesbian partner. The HR person said they couldn't hire her because she'd admitted to committing a crime.:mad:

[Tristan]

Lex, that makes me so blooming mad. I don't know what to say. :Angry3: The lack of respect that trans people get in this country infuriates me beyond words. I'm so sorry they did that to you. I say we all stock the ship with lots of ammo and swords and go pay those %$# wipes a visit!

[bi_weird]

Dude man, that really sucks. Sorry that happened...brownie to make you feel better?

[CaptLex]

I'm so glad you guys are here . . . even when the rum is gone. Thanks for the refill, Marla. And the brownie helps too, Bi. :hugs:

There's a glimmer of hope on the horizon . . . I asked Greg to bring me the letter (he had read it to me over the phone) 'cause I was working late tonight. Anyway, I called the number on the letter - turns out the passport office is open till midnight (in case anyone ever needs to know that). So I spoke to a very nice man who told me that I should submit another letter from my doc explaining why I can't have the surgery, and he also suggested I submit any other letters that might help, like something from my therapist (who knows more about my situation than my doc) and a letter from work saying that I've been living as male for about a year and a half and that all my documents there have been changed, including my health insurance. He agreed that if my license (which I sent them a copy of) had been changed, then it would be confusing (not to mention nuts) to travel with conflicting documents.

He also told me that they don't run into this situation very often (really? there are how many of us . . . ? :eek:), so take notes boys and girls here in the U.S. Then he wished me luck. So the fight's not over yet - will keep you posted. Thanks for listening. :bighug:

BTW, Adam, I suggest you get the letter you need too and I hope you can have that taken care of soon. :happy:

P.S. Love the pic, Kerri! :D

[Tristan]

I'll be crossing all my fingers and toes for you Lex. I hope it works out and they straighten out their silly little mistake. Government can be so much red tape and hassle.

[Kieron Andrew]

I'm so glad you guys are here . . . even when the rum is gone. Thanks for the refill, Marla. And the brownie helps too, Bi. :hugs:

There's a glimmer of hope on the horizon . . . I asked Greg to bring me the letter (he had read it to me over the phone) 'cause I was working late tonight. Anyway, I called the number on the letter - turns out the passport office is open till midnight (in case anyone ever needs to know that). So I spoke to a very nice man who told me that I should submit another letter from my doc explaining why I can't have the surgery, and he also suggested I submit any other letters that might help, like something from my therapist (who knows more about my situation than my doc) and a letter from work saying that I've been living as male for about a year and a half and that all my documents there have been changed, including my health insurance. He agreed that if my license (which I sent them a copy of) had been changed, then it would be confusing (not to mention nuts) to travel with conflicting documents.

He also told me that they don't run into this situation very often (really? there are how many of us . . . ? :eek:), so take notes boys and girls here in the U.S. Then he wished me luck. So the fight's not over yet - will keep you posted. Thanks for listening. :bighug:

BTW, Adam, I suggest you get the letter you need too and I hope you can have that taken care of soon. :happy:

P.S. Love the pic, Kerri! :D

will be hoping and praying for you lex, i mean geez how many non op Ts' are there in ur country not to mention the world :rolleyes:

[ZenFrost]

They're b******s. You shouldn't have to go through so much trouble for them to change one freakin' letter.

[Nicki B]

I'm so glad you guys are here . . . even when the rum is gone. Thanks for the refill, Marla. And the brownie helps too, Bi. :hugs:

There's a glimmer of hope on the horizon . . . I asked Greg to bring me the letter (he had read it to me over the phone) 'cause I was working late tonight. Anyway, I called the number on the letter - turns out the passport office is open till midnight (in case anyone ever needs to know that). So I spoke to a very nice man who told me that I should submit another letter from my doc explaining why I can't have the surgery, and he also suggested I submit any other letters that might help, like something from my therapist (who knows more about my situation than my doc) and a letter from work saying that I've been living as male for about a year and a half and that all my documents there have been changed, including my health insurance. He agreed that if my license (which I sent them a copy of) had been changed, then it would be confusing (not to mention nuts) to travel with conflicting documents.

He also told me that they don't run into this situation very often (really? there are how many of us . . . ? :eek:), so take notes boys and girls here in the U.S. Then he wished me luck. So the fight's not over yet - will keep you posted. Thanks for listening. :bighug:

BTW, Adam, I suggest you get the letter you need too and I hope you can have that taken care of soon. :happy:

P.S. Love the pic, Kerri! :D

Lex,

I'm sorry. :hugs:

My first instinct would be, push back - they're bound to be people who deal with high volumes of applications and the number like this will be, relatively, very small?

Here in the UK, there seem to be specialist offices who do have the experience - and surgery is not a requirement (there are many transfolk who, for various reasons are unwilling or unable to have surgery)?

Ask them to find someone who has dealt with this before - and can you furnish a letter from a Doctor to say that you live fulltime, take hormones, etc?


But, speaking as an outsider, I always find American bureaucracy highly intimidatory - you feel like you're dealing with a very big, thick-skinned elephant that couldn't care less about you? (Try passing Immigration on a non-US passport, at least on the East Coast - or Miami!!)

[DanielMacBride]

Lex that really sucks - but it sounds like you have a handle on it. It's just another example of f***ing stupid red tape crap and a royal pain in the a***.

:hugs:

Daniel

[John]

Ah, that sucks, I'm sorry. I hope you manige to get it sorted out somehow. In the meantime: :drink:

[Tree GG]

Failure is just not an option - you have an unconfirmed, yet free-standing and non-cancellable reservation on a Caribbean Island with me sometime.

As a professional paper-pusher, I can attest to the frustrations of bureaucracy, but it can be done with persistance and documentation. Any good bureaucrat is taught to have a paper trail - supposedly for accuracy's sake, but in reality it's a CYA (Cover Your A$$) policy.

Once you get them documentation and 3rd, 4th, 5th & nth party verification of your gender presentation, they'll get tired of revisiting the same application and stamp you on thru.

Hope your passport bureaucrat has a short attention span!

:hugs: Tree

[Emily Ann Brown]

So how the crap do sisters leave here a man and head to Thailand, become a woman, and get back in the country?????

Call you state rep in Congress dude.....bureaucrats hate calls from their superiors.


Emily Ann

[Kieron Andrew]

Call you state rep in Congress dude.....bureaucrats hate calls from their superiors.

that was gonna be my next suggestion if the proof of paper work didnt work

[Dasein9]

Best of luck, Lex! Everyone here has given good advice. Outlast them, wear them down. Call in the big guns. C'mon! You're in NYC! Call Hillary! (Remember what Bill did for me when I needed help pending surgery? I know I've told you that story!)


Sadly enough, in some states, they still can inquire into use of genitals. Sodomy is still illegal in places (meaning anything other than standard hetero relations). I remember at least one case of a woman being denied a state job in NC after mentioning that she was marrying her lesbian partner. The HR person said they couldn't hire her because she'd admitted to committing a crime.:mad:

She needs to sue the pants off them. In 2003, the Supreme Court ruled sodomy laws unconstitutional. So, while the laws are still on the books in some states, they are illegal laws.

[Lovely Rita]

Very sorry to hear about this Lex.

[Laurie909]

Or maybe I'll be like Elvis and never leave the country.

He was stationed in Germany when he was in the Army. He just never toured outside of the US. That was because of Col. Tom. He was the one that couldn't leave the country.

[CaptLex]

Thanks all for your kind words, support and suggestions. :hugs:


He was stationed in Germany when he was in the Army. He just never toured outside of the US. That was because of Col. Tom. He was the one that couldn't leave the country.
Yeah I know, Laurie - it was a lame joke. :p


Failure is just not an option - you have an unconfirmed, yet free-standing and non-cancellable reservation on a Caribbean Island with me sometime.
Tree, I'll meet you in the Caribbean if I have to swim it! :love:


Here in the UK, there seem to be specialist offices who do have the experience - and surgery is not a requirement (there are many transfolk who, for various reasons are unwilling or unable to have surgery)?
You're absolutely right, Nicki, and I'm trying to gather as much "evidence" or at least written proof as possible to submit, but it's been a slow process. The letter from my therapist was easy to get, and I think it's the most important one because he and I have discussed my transition at length and he took the time to explain that transition doesn't necessarily equate SRS.

My doctor has been on vacation for two weeks, and I did leave her a message asking if she could provide another letter, but I don't think she can add anything to what she said in the first one. They're really asking for a letter from a surgeon (who has either done or will do SRS on me). That's not what she is, she's the doc the prescribes my hormones, but she and I have never discussed just how far I intend to transition physically. My therapist is the one that knows all that.

I asked my job for a letter simply explaining that I have changed all my papers at work to male and that I've been living as male at work for over a year. Well, I asked my supervisor who had to submit the request to the main office in Chicago - and Chicago refused to do it. Their excuses are really lame - basically, that they can't provide personal information and that if they do it for me, they'll be "opening the door" for everyone to make that request. They also said they would not give me a letter unless it was a definite "requirement" from the passport office - a specific request.

So I asked my friend, Phil (who is also a partner at the firm) for advice and he said he would call the main person in Chicago personally (when he returns from his business trip tomorrow) and try to reason with them. He told me that's all BS because they can supply personal info if it's requested by the person (me, that is) and that this would not open the door for anyone anyway 'cause there's no one else here in my situation. He also pointed out to me that, as he sees it, the letter is a "requirement" because the cumulative effect of several documents would better present my case and reverse the outcome so far.

It's so stupid, I'm not asking them to lie and say I've had surgery . . . just to confirm that this is who I am in real life and this isn't a whim, a phase or something I'll change my mind about next week. Anyway, I'm glad he wants to help me.

So that's pretty much how things stand so far. Still gathering stuff to send back to the passport office. Will keep you posted on the final verdict. :praying:

[ZenFrost]

:hugs: I can't believe how annoying they're being! It's not like it's going to ruin the U.S. economy for you to change one little thing.

[Kieron Andrew]

So that's pretty much how things stand so far. Still gathering stuff to send back to the passport office. Will keep you posted on the final verdict. :praying:

i tell ya, once they finally get their finger out their butts and sort this, after all you've gone through, i'll start a bleeding whip round for you to get to england as celebratory thing lol....cos it seems to me they are quite willing to give the damn passport they just want paperwork to clog up their filing systems....idiots i tell ya

you are a non op Ts what the heck is so hard to grasp!

[CaptLex]

you are a non op Ts what the heck is so hard to grasp!
They're very uneducated. :rolleyes: I think what's going on is that they don't see too many of these from FtMs and that the MtFs they've seen request a change in their passport have had, or will have, surgery. Our government needs to be educated about us - all of us - but mainly about transmen. :straightface:

[Nicki B]

They're very uneducated. :rolleyes: I think what's going on is that they don't see too many of these from FtMs and that the MtFs they've seen request a change in their passport have had, or will have, surgery. Our government needs to be educated about us - all of us - but mainly about transmen. :straightface:

It feels like you need to get further up the tree - or nothing's gonna change?

But, also, you can't be the first person to do this... Has anyone any suggestions for groups who would lobby in this area (an M2F group might also be able to help)? I could tell you about the UK, but not the States.. :sad:



Tree, I'll meet you in the Caribbean if I have to swim it! :love:

I don't think they're very used to transpeople, but I can recommend it... :)

[CaptLex]

I don't think they're very used to transpeople, but I can recommend it... :)
Great pics, Nicki. We'll have to "commandeer" a ship and sail out there with our whole crew. :titanic:

[SirTrey]

Beautiful pics, Nicki....but I already knew you were a beauty. :)

[Kieron Andrew]

Great pics, Nicki. We'll have to "commandeer" a ship and sail out there with our whole crew. :titanic:

hey can we go 55940 with the offices that are dealing with your case lol (PS this smiley so needs to be added)

[ZenFrost]

hey can we go 55940 with the offices that are dealing with your case lol

Yeah!

[Nicki B]

And just where did you nick that idea from, then? :hmmm:

[Kieron Andrew]

And just where did you nick that idea from, then? :hmmm:

from you!!! :D hey im giving you ALL the credit and glory for thinking of it :D

[Felix]

Hi Lex just wondered how ya getting on with all of this hun?? xx Felix :hugs::hugs:

[CaptLex]

Hi Lex just wondered how ya getting on with all of this hun?? xx Felix :hugs::hugs:
Very, very slowly - like swimming in mud, man.

Due to some help and interference from my partner friend, the firm has agreed to give me a letter - which I should get Monday. Still working on other documentation.

My therapist did a little research and found out that not only is a surgeon's letter required, but sometimes medical records and surgical notes are also requested in order to change the passport, so my chances are looking very slim. He was also told that what I would probably get is a temporary passport that's valid for 3 months so that I can take ONE trip. That's it! :Angry3:

He did cheer me up a bit when we discussed this because he told me about his discussion with another gender therapist who writes these kinds of letters for her MtF TS patients and they got into an argument about how difficult (and futile sometimes) SRS is for transmen (she disagreed) and he stood up for us. :clap: I had to laugh when he rolled his eyes and said, "therapists!" :rolleyes:

[Kieron Andrew]

He was also told that what I would probably get is a temporary passport that's valid for 3 months so that I can take ONE trip. That's it! :Angry3:
presumably for the purpose of surgery :rolleyes:

[Syr_SwitchyGQ]

I'm so sorry Lex... :hugs: This whole situation is so messed up... I don't understand why it's such a big deal to get your paperwork changed. Honestly! Why all the red tape? What are they afraid of?

This is such :censor: I'm sorry you have to sort through all this. :sad:

[ZenFrost]

I'm so sorry Lex... :hugs: This whole situation is so messed up... I don't understand why it's such a big deal to get your paperwork changed. Honestly! Why all the red tape? What are they afraid of?

This is such :censor: I'm sorry you have to sort through all this. :sad:

:yt: :ap:

[Anthony Jake]

you know what i think i think it is all BULLS*IT really.. if everything else is legit then why the hell the problem with a passport? Some people and some people perceptions of stuff really affect so many other people and they dont give a f*ck how we all feel.
Lex, i really hope that you can find a way to sort it, and that some good people can come forward to help you.
I mean, we fight so damn hard to be who we are and to be happy but there is always some bast**rd on the other side of the fence waiting to knock us down.
Its not fair and it totally sucks.

[happyfish]

Dude, that freaking sucks. :Angry3: Hang in there. Have some hugs and some more rum. :hugs::hugs::hugs::drink::drink:

[Charleen]

Oh, Captain, my Captain! My heart goes out to you! HUGS!

[uknowhoo]

i dunno if it'll help much, but


:hugs::hugs::hugs:



T

[Tobie]

Hey Lex, I was looking around for some info, would you be able to apply for the NEXUS program instead of a passport? As in, would they be more lenient with the gender issue?

I have a link..
CBP and NEXUS (http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/trusted_traveler/nexus_prog/nexus.xml)

[Kieron Andrew]

Hey Lex, I was looking around for some info, would you be able to apply for the NEXUS program instead of a passport? As in, would they be more lenient with the gender issue?

I have a link..
CBP and NEXUS (http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/trusted_traveler/nexus_prog/nexus.xml)

but that doesnt allow to fly out of country to say the UK or France for example and i guess thats what Lex wants, to be able to go overseas, good altenative on US soil though

[KrazyKat]

:devil:Give 'em Hell, Lex!!

They can't learn if we don't stay after them!! Glad you found someone on the phone who would give you some helpful info, stay after it!!

[Sarah Rabbit]

****! I just got word that my passport application was rejected. :Angry3: They want me to provide proof that I've had surgery or that I'm planning to have it before they can change my passport. Grrrrr!

Guess that means I'll have to travel as a girl - even if I look like a boy. Or maybe I'll be like Elvis and never leave the country. :rolleyes:

I'm beyond bummed out right now - where's the rum? :sad:
Show them some of those expletives you put as the Thread Title, that will remove all doubt..:p

:lol::lol:

Sarah R. :bunny:

[CaptLex]

Well, I sent all the letters I could get off to the passport office and now it's wait-and-see time again. I'll keep you all posted, but I'm not holding my breath that I'll get what I want. :straightface:

[CaptLex]

Well the verdict is in . . . today I received a passport with a big fat ugly F on it. With a lovely letter explaining that it's valid for one year, during which time I'm expected to submit surgical proof of SRS. :wall: So now I feel like I've been castrated twice - once by Mother Nature and the second time by the government. So . . . where's the rum? I need to get drunk. :drink:

[KrazyKat]

Okay, so Lex, that's what Karen got, a temp passport for a year to submit the SRS letter, but her's said F, so, shouldn't yours , the 1 year temp say M?

I'm confused!! I guess they are too.

I drank too much champagne yesterday, or I'd say, "Cheers!!":heehee:

So, somehow through networking we need to find another way "around the barn" or move the barn??!!

Hey, here's a slap on the back, Matey, and a chug-a-lug!!:skull:

[bi_weird]

Dude, sorry, that sucks a lot. Have a rum-brownie?

[CaptLex]

Okay, so Lex, that's what Karen got, a temp passport for a year to submit the SRS letter, but her's said F, so, shouldn't yours , the 1 year temp say M?

I'm confused!! I guess they are too.
Now I'm confused too. :confused:


Dude, sorry, that sucks a lot. Have a rum-brownie?
Aw, thanks sweetie . . . that helps. :koc:

[Syr_SwitchyGQ]

I'm so sorry Lex! :mad: That's completely and utterly ridiculous that they're putting you through this much red tape. Honestly, don't they have more important things to worry about than some poor transguy who wants his docs changed? Yeesh. You'd think they would have real threats to the American public to watch. Well, here's some :drink: on me hon, and some extra :hugs: for ya.

[Kieron Andrew]

ok now thats just spoilt my day! they are utter ****ing assholes!!!! im utterly disgusted that there is so much red tape that a non-op TS can not live in the gender they desire and get such a ****ing simple thing as a passport!!!, ESPECIALLY when all your other documents are in male!

PS excuse the cussing im angry stoopid bureaucratic idiots!!!

Can you appeal?

[CaptLex]

PS excuse the cussing im angry stoopid bureaucratic idiots!!!
Don't worry about it, I was cussing a lot more than that in the post office when I opened the envelope (think I scared some woman).


Can you appeal?
I don't know. Right now I'm too tired of the whole thing to think about it, but I'm sure I'll try something else again.


Well, here's some :drink: on me hon, and some extra :hugs: for ya.
Thanks, hon. :hugs: