You Became Accustomed To It...She Didn't

[Rhonda Jean]

Hi Everybody,
Some of you know I'm going through a painful divorce. This is one of those posts that I hope might help someone. I don't want any of you to go through this. This is not advice, really. Just observations that you may not be able to get until it's too late, as in my case.

When my wife left she said she couldn't take being married to a woman anymore. I swore it was just clothes, etc., etc.. I swore I'd get rid of everything, cut my hair, get rid of every vestige of my femininity and never revisit it. It did that and it didn't help, but...

It was only when I started to try to get rid of everything that I realized how pervasive my "feminine side" had become. I hadn't hid anything from her (or felt the need to) for years. I had more panties and bras than she did. I had more clothes, more shoes, higher heels, shorter skirts, tighter jeans, longer hair, longer nails. I had enough curlers and other hairstyling things to open a beauty shop. Even after I thought I had gotten rid of everything, as time passed I started to notice things that I had long ago quit attaching any cross-gender significance to. I found ponytail holders everywhere. I didn't ever even notice them until after I cut my hair. They were in the bathroom, in my car, in my desk, on my dresser. I had nail files in my desk, car, etc.. All my reading glasses were feminine, and they were everywhere. All my dress socks were women's trouser socks.

I won't go on and on. My point is, there were a lot of things that had lost significance to me. Yet, each of those things served as a marker, a reminder, to her that she was married to a feminine person, to say the least. When I moved out of the house and she was moving back in, she said, "You need to take this." It was my stuff out of the shower. Facial exfoliator, detangling brush, baby oil. It never crossed my mind that these were feminine "markers".

I've been a crossdresser for a very long time. Over time, lots of things had become routine. I no longer thought of them as cd related. Over that same amount of time, they never lost that significance to her.

A lot of things in my cd life have been that way. I see it played out on this board in the difference between the newbies and, well, me. The first time is so wrought with emotion that you notice everything. You watch every face for a reaction. I remember it well. The first time I wore makeup in public, or nailpolish, or earrings, or... you get the idea. Now it's no biggie. I rarely notice peoples reaction. I don't suffer such angst. The reactions are still there, I'm just not looking for them, so It's the same as them not being there (to me).

I'm sure that I passed better when I was 20, but back then I watched every face for a reaction and tried to analyze it. Now I rarely even look. At the end of the day I've seen virtually no reaction from the public. I didn't pass better, It's just that I've become accustomed to what I was doing and wearing and wasn't so overy analytical of every minute response from the public.

Take cding out of it and look at it this way. When you first started smoking or drinking or even driving a car for that matter, part of the experience, part of the thrill, was for people to see you doing it. It added to the pleasure you were already geting from doing it. After you'd done it for a while the "being seen" aspect of it lost all significance. That's the way it is with crossdressing.

At some point in time, all of the things I did or wore realted to being a crossdresser were thrilling. Over the years they lost their thrill, yet I continued to do them. I think that the fact that I continued to do them after the newness and the thrill was gone was evidence (probably accurate) to my wife that I had accepted these things as a natural and necessary part of who I am. It had become too natural, too comfortable, too common to just be done for kicks. If one of our male friends, for example had showed up at our card game with shaved legs, long hair, and long nails, I and everyone else would have found that very strange. Yet when I did it I didn't find it strange at all. I never gave it a second thought. That doesn't mean my friends didn't.

After all this I'm not sure I've even made my point. I'm trying to say that over the years much of my feminine side and all it's accoutrements had become quite ordinary for me. To my wife, none of them ever did. They just kept adding straw to the camel's back.

There is a difference between something that one does and something that one has become. I hope that makes sense. I think it's at the root of a lot of disention between partners. Just add that to the list of things about this "lifestyle" that's very difficult to quantify, justify, or explain. It depends on what side of the fence you're on. Hard to see it from the other persons' side.

Rhonda

[Oddlee]

Rhonda,

Thanks for the warning (for so I take it) that we need to remain mindful of others' points of view. It's easy, as you indicate, to take familiarity as normalcy. Unfortunately our perception of normal is different from most of society's. I'm not sure what the answer is, short of mindfulness and communication. I have experienced how I can take advantage of the one friend who knows about this part of my life. If you knew back then what you know now, what (if anything) would you have done differently?

Sorry about this painful question, and I am truly grateful for the insight we can all gain from your experience.

Thank you,
Lee

[sterling12]

And you are right! A lot of us are in the process of "becoming." The feminine side gets free rein and it becomes the preference.

The reality when that happened, your wife was faced with a choice. STAY or GO. She chose the latter, somebody else might choose to stay.

I think I have finally figured it out. I can't be responsible for someone else's happiness. Ultimately, that person makes themself either happy or unhappy, they do it all by themselves. It's the same for all of us.

If there is a next time, perhaps that person will find her own happiness, and might want to spend her time with you.

Peace and Love, Joanie

[Debbie47]

My first marriage failed but it was not the dressing up although she went along with it at times and fought it fiercly at other times. It turns out that she was bi-polar. There were many in her family that had issues like this or worse. My current wife of 11 years is very supportive of my dressing and is a blessing. Women are the worlds biggest crossdressers. You can as a woman wear anything you please and its called fashion. You can buy boyshorts in the Fredericks catalog but where can a man buy girlshorts? This is just one example of many. I have described to women that being a man is like a woman that goes to buy a car and is told by the salesman that the only ones she can have is the black, grey or brown ones. Our society is completely screwed up by ignorant people and those that specialize in ignorance and stupidity. I had a friend at work make a gay comment about men that wear pink and I jumped right on that one because he calls himself a christian. I told him that where in the bible does it say that a man cannot wear pink? God according to the bible is a man and ir a male figure and He invented pink for all to enjoy. Our stupid society says that pink is a girls color and blue is a boys. Once again where does it say that in the good book? If pink is a female color and a man is gay if he wears it then if women wear blue then they must also be gay. I think all women probably have some blue in their wardrobe. This is complete and utter imbecility. I get tired of the only places I can go are gay bars under the cover of darkness. I have pushed the envelope in broad daylight by wearing as much feminine attire as possible. I have been laughed at, pointed at and have overheard mothers telling their children that I was gay because I had on a toe ring. A man can finally wear earrings and necklaces in public but a toe ring makes you gay! I have went out dressed completely many times to major shopping malls on halloween and you know what bothers me is that I have never seen anyone else push the envelope. Sorry, I had to vent a little myself. I hope all goes well for you in the future. Back into the darkness.

Debbie

[charlie]

Hi Everybody,
Some of you know I'm going through a painful divorce. This is one of those posts that I hope might help someone. I don't want any of you to go through this. This is not advice, really. Just observations that you may not be able to get until it's too late, as in my case.

When my wife left she said she couldn't take being married to a woman anymore. I swore it was just clothes, etc., etc.. I swore I'd get rid of everything, cut my hair, get rid of every vestige of my femininity and never revisit it. It did that and it didn't help, but...

It was only when I started to try to get rid of everything that I realized how pervasive my "feminine side" had become. I hadn't hid anything from her (or felt the need to) for years. I had more panties and bras than she did. I had more clothes, more shoes, higher heels, shorter skirts, tighter jeans, longer hair, longer nails. I had enough curlers and other hairstyling things to open a beauty shop. Even after I thought I had gotten rid of everything, as time passed I started to notice things that I had long ago quit attaching any cross-gender significance to. I found ponytail holders everywhere. I didn't ever even notice them until after I cut my hair. They were in the bathroom, in my car, in my desk, on my dresser. I had nail files in my desk, car, etc.. All my reading glasses were feminine, and they were everywhere. All my dress socks were women's trouser socks.

I won't go on and on. My point is, there were a lot of things that had lost significance to me. Yet, each of those things served as a marker, a reminder, to her that she was married to a feminine person, to say the least. When I moved out of the house and she was moving back in, she said, "You need to take this." It was my stuff out of the shower. Facial exfoliator, detangling brush, baby oil. It never crossed my mind that these were feminine "markers".

I've been a crossdresser for a very long time. Over time, lots of things had become routine. I no longer thought of them as cd related. Over that same amount of time, they never lost that significance to her.

A lot of things in my cd life have been that way. I see it played out on this board in the difference between the newbies and, well, me. The first time is so wrought with emotion that you notice everything. You watch every face for a reaction. I remember it well. The first time I wore makeup in public, or nailpolish, or earrings, or... you get the idea. Now it's no biggie. I rarely notice peoples reaction. I don't suffer such angst. The reactions are still there, I'm just not looking for them, so It's the same as them not being there (to me).

I'm sure that I passed better when I was 20, but back then I watched every face for a reaction and tried to analyze it. Now I rarely even look. At the end of the day I've seen virtually no reaction from the public. I didn't pass better, It's just that I've become accustomed to what I was doing and wearing and wasn't so overy analytical of every minute response from the public.

Take cding out of it and look at it this way. When you first started smoking or drinking or even driving a car for that matter, part of the experience, part of the thrill, was for people to see you doing it. It added to the pleasure you were already geting from doing it. After you'd done it for a while the "being seen" aspect of it lost all significance. That's the way it is with crossdressing.

At some point in time, all of the things I did or wore realted to being a crossdresser were thrilling. Over the years they lost their thrill, yet I continued to do them. I think that the fact that I continued to do them after the newness and the thrill was gone was evidence (probably accurate) to my wife that I had accepted these things as a natural and necessary part of who I am. It had become too natural, too comfortable, too common to just be done for kicks. If one of our male friends, for example had showed up at our card game with shaved legs, long hair, and long nails, I and everyone else would have found that very strange. Yet when I did it I didn't find it strange at all. I never gave it a second thought. That doesn't mean my friends didn't.

After all this I'm not sure I've even made my point. I'm trying to say that over the years much of my feminine side and all it's accoutrements had become quite ordinary for me. To my wife, none of them ever did. They just kept adding straw to the camel's back.

There is a difference between something that one does and something that one has become. I hope that makes sense. I think it's at the root of a lot of disention between partners. Just add that to the list of things about this "lifestyle" that's very difficult to quantify, justify, or explain. It depends on what side of the fence you're on. Hard to see it from the other persons' side.

Rhonda
Thanks for the warning Rhonda!
Your story is what will eventually get me caught. You at least were open to your wife and she still could not take it. Afterall, our wives want to marry a man. They think they are. How can they rectify their "man" wearing a mini skirt, bra and nylons?

[JoAnnDallas]

After reading your post, I got thinking about myself. My wife now knows about my fem side, I have just noticed little fem things that I do now that I have not noticed before or thought of. Like using anti-winkle facial produces, using a eyebow pencil to hid the grey hairs on my eyebrows, using fem body wash when I take a shower, using a spongy thing that exfloates my body, using morstizer on my legs, chest, and arms. Before my wife found out about my fem side, she thought that I was finially trying to take better care of myself. she did make a remark the other day that I take more time in the bathroom than she does. LOL

[Rhonda Jean]

Rhonda,

Thanks for the warning (for so I take it) that we need to remain mindful of others' points of view. It's easy, as you indicate, to take familiarity as normalcy. Unfortunately our perception of normal is different from most of society's. I'm not sure what the answer is, short of mindfulness and communication. I have experienced how I can take advantage of the one friend who knows about this part of my life. If you knew back then what you know now, what (if anything) would you have done differently?

Sorry about this painful question, and I am truly grateful for the insight we can all gain from your experience.

Thank you,
Lee

The bottom line to that question is that if I would have done it at all I would have stayed in the closet. If the question was "what do I think I could have gotten away with and still be married" I don't knkow. May be if she had known all about it, but I kept it completely separated from my daily life. Not wearing panties 24/7, not shaving my legs, not having girls clothes and things mixed in with my boy stuff. She might could have handled knowing, but it being inescapably in her face all the time was too much.

I t gets back to that give and inch, take a mile thing. I took the mile. I probably could have gotten away with the inch.

[Tree GG]

Rhonda, that is a beautiful writing. Full of compassion, perspective and honesty. I am deeply saddened that it took your marriage ending to give you that perspective, but that may have been the ultimate outcome anyway - who can say?

I don't like calling it a warning. I think it's a good example of how the "little things", the "little annoyances" can accumulate and become caustic. We have 2 teenage daughters - they and I shape our eyebrows. No one takes more than 5 or 10 minutes to accomplish this task. My husband will spend an hour or more in front of the mirror shaping his now. :rolleyes: That annoys me - I find it vain and silly to take so much time on a hygiene/grooming task. I fully realize however, that it's different for him. He enjoys the process almost as much as the result where the girls and I are doing it because we're told we have to to be considered attractive. One's a joy, one's a chore.

And as you left all those "insignificant" feminine markers around, the likelihood of someone finding out became greater. So now we're not dealing with a private crossdresser, but a publically out transgendered person. One is a hobby, one is a lifestyle. That's a big one, IMO. We're currently struggling thru that. Community & work can't know, but family should? That inequity bothers me.

Your posts just ooze with your pain, loss and saddness and I feel deep sympathy for you. :hugs: and hopes that you will heal quickly and with a renewed happiness.

[Katrina]

The bottom line to that question is that if I would have done it at all I would have stayed in the closet. If the question was "what do I think I could have gotten away with and still be married" I don't knkow. May be if she had known all about it, but I kept it completely separated from my daily life. Not wearing panties 24/7, not shaving my legs, not having girls clothes and things mixed in with my boy stuff. She might could have handled knowing, but it being inescapably in her face all the time was too much.

I t gets back to that give and inch, take a mile thing. I took the mile. I probably could have gotten away with the inch.

You can't second guess yourself though. Its quite possible that if you had stayed in the closet, you would have had other issues due to keeping something hidden like that. Several gay friends of mine said that a huge weight was lifted off their shoulders when they came out. Eventually, that weight would have gotten the best of them if they had stayed in the closet.

[Rhonda Jean]

Rhonda, that is a beautiful writing. Full of compassion, perspective and honesty. I am deeply saddened that it took your marriage ending to give you that perspective, but that may have been the ultimate outcome anyway - who can say?

I don't like calling it a warning. I think it's a good example of how the "little things", the "little annoyances" can accumulate and become caustic. We have 2 teenage daughters - they and I shape our eyebrows. No one takes more than 5 or 10 minutes to accomplish this task. My husband will spend an hour or more in front of the mirror shaping his now. :rolleyes: That annoys me - I find it vain and silly to take so much time on a hygiene/grooming task. I fully realize however, that it's different for him. He enjoys the process almost as much as the result where the girls and I are doing it because we're told we have to to be considered attractive. One's a joy, one's a chore.

And as you left all those "insignificant" feminine markers around, the likelihood of someone finding out became greater. So now we're not dealing with a private crossdresser, but a publically out transgendered person. One is a hobby, one is a lifestyle. That's a big one, IMO. We're currently struggling thru that. Community & work can't know, but family should? That inequity bothers me.

Your posts just ooze with your pain, loss and saddness and I feel deep sympathy for you. :hugs: and hopes that you will heal quickly and with a renewed happiness.

Hi Tree,
I hadn't cried for several days, until I read your post. I'm doing a lot better.
I don't consider this a warning either. Nor is it advice. It's just what happened. We were two people who loved each other. In the end she could no longer love me. She saw no value in being loved so much by me.

Obviously, I've started crossdressing again. I've said before, I paid for it with my marriage, so why stop now. Your comment about a hobby vs. a lifestyle is intriging. That's a line that's pretty hard to define. That's kind of like my wife telling my therapist she saw it a a gender thing. I never did. I only saw myself as a crossdresser. I think one thing thatmade her think that, and bothered her is that, even though it'd been many years since she'd seen me fully crossdressed, she knew I made a pretty convincing woman, and that I worked at doing that. I remember years ago her making the comment "when you do it you look like real woman!". I answered something like, "I always try really hard to do that." I took it as a compliment. Actually, it was a harbinger of things to come.

Before I "sign off" here I'd like to comment about you, Tree, and others on this board. It still seems rather odd for me to recieve such value from the friendship of people I've never even met. I suppose that is the good side of the reality of the internet. Fact is, we're able to share things here that we can't share ANYWHERE else. Even though I've never met you all, you know things about me that no one else in the world does. Isn't that kind of wierd? Guess I'm showing my age. I've opened up my heart. Many of you have opened yours in return. Thanks!
(I'm gonna go have my cry now!)

[Marcie Sexton]

I'm sure that most all of us can feel your pain, especially those of us who have went through a divorce for one reason or another.
I can only wish you the very best in the future. I after reading numerous posts of circumstances where first there was acceptance, thern there wasn't, there are also those who have never, nor will ever gain acceptance from our SO's. Then there are the lucky ones like myself who hid my dressing for well over 15 years in various forms from my wife...As I have said in previous posts, I was extrememly lucky, after a stretch of rough road, my wife for what ever reason, thank GOD came to accept me...Not only did she accept me, she is now a supporter of our rights as members of the trans gender community.

She now buys jewerly, make up, snaps all the pictures of me, while that is not to say that fickle creature call fate may very well rear its ugly head against me, I will enjoy life and thank my lucky stars.

I wish you the best and will keep you in my prayers...I got to believe there is some one who will mold with you to become one and this pain you now feel will be not to far in the future a bad dream...

God Bless and good luck...

[Vaerise]

I kind of regard CDing as a form of hobby or past-time and people can overindulge and become obsessed with it.

People spending too much time on their model airplanes... computer games.. and etc.. if we start to become too focus on one thing we start to lose track of the people or things around us... maybe..maybe CD is similar and the fact that it is something very misunderstood and perceived wrongly makes it even harder...

[Oddlee]

Rhonda, that is a beautiful writing. Full of compassion, perspective and honesty. I am deeply saddened that it took your marriage ending to give you that perspective, but that may have been the ultimate outcome anyway - who can say?

I don't like calling it a warning. I think it's a good example of how the "little things", the "little annoyances" can accumulate and become caustic. We have 2 teenage daughters - they and I shape our eyebrows. No one takes more than 5 or 10 minutes to accomplish this task. My husband will spend an hour or more in front of the mirror shaping his now. :rolleyes: That annoys me - I find it vain and silly to take so much time on a hygiene/grooming task. I fully realize however, that it's different for him. He enjoys the process almost as much as the result where the girls and I are doing it because we're told we have to to be considered attractive. One's a joy, one's a chore.

And as you left all those "insignificant" feminine markers around, the likelihood of someone finding out became greater. So now we're not dealing with a private crossdresser, but a publically out transgendered person. One is a hobby, one is a lifestyle. That's a big one, IMO. We're currently struggling thru that. Community & work can't know, but family should? That inequity bothers me.

Your posts just ooze with your pain, loss and saddness and I feel deep sympathy for you. :hugs: and hopes that you will heal quickly and with a renewed happiness.



Many good points, Tree. Maybe "warning" was the wrong word, but there is certainly a lesson here for us. It always amazes me, how the same set of facts can be interpreted in such different ways. Rhonda's experience shows that we have to be mindful of this fact.

One thing I disagree with is the thought that being a CD is a hobby. I have many hobbies, and my need to wear women's clothing (whether privately or in public) is nothing like them.

I agree with Joanie, that we are generally not responsible for someone else's happiness. Anyone who has read Victor Frankl should believe we control our on attitudes. However, I also believe that when I enter a partnership (whether in business or a personal relationship) I willingly take the responsibility of contributing to the partner's success (or happiness, in a personal relationship).

I think this is one of three or four truly important and meaningful threads I've seen in the (roughly) year that I've been visiting this forum. I'm deeply appreciative of Rhonda's initial post and all the thoughtful replies. To Rhonda's point of revealing more of herself to us than anyone else - I think part of the reason we do so here is that it can be relatively anonymous. Another part is that we are a community of like-minded individuals. To the extent that we have accepted ourselves (or maybe to an even greater extent), we can be accepting and welcoming of others like us.

Again, thanks to everyone for the depth and meaning in this thread.

Lee

[docrobbysherry]

I kind of regard CDing as a form of hobby or past-time and people can overindulge and become obsessed with it.

People spending too much time on their model airplanes... computer games.. and etc.. if we start to become too focus on one thing we start to lose track of the people or things around us... maybe..maybe CD is similar and the fact that it is something very misunderstood and perceived wrongly makes it even harder...

After getting over the emotionality expressed in this thread, I have found much to consider. It is apparent that for "life style" CD's, (TS's?), keeping CDing a secret may not be a practical option. As a closet CD, secrecy is of utmost importance to me. I have my child for this whole week, as my ex is out of town. Before she was dropped off, I noticed how sloppy I had gotten with my lady's things. A bag of goodies here, a bra there. A set of forms easily seen. If she had just casually entered my bedroom, I might have been found out. I may have been getting too involved with my "hobby" to notice that my child was around.
As for the hobby aspect of CDing. For me, may be it is a kind of hobby. Being dressed is kind of like the thrill of my homemade rocket taking off, when I was young. I worked for days, weeks building them. Just like I work now, on my special faces and sewing my outfits. I don't build rockets anymore, and, who knows, I may not dress years from now. I never thought about it as a hobby before now. Not sure what it is anymore.
RS

myspace.com/robertsherry

[Vaerise]

I call it a hobby because I like to think..that we have a choice in it. If we have no control over it and the need to dress is just there, does it become a psychological disorder?
Or is it just the way we are?

[DonnaT]

Sorry about the divorce Rhonda.


At some point in time, all of the things I did or wore realted to being a crossdresser were thrilling. Over the years they lost their thrill, yet I continued to do them.

After all this I'm not sure I've even made my point. I'm trying to say that over the years much of my feminine side and all it's accoutrements had become quite ordinary for me.

There is a difference between something that one does and something that one has become.

It's not something you became. It's who you were and always have been. Being transgendered comes in many guises, the acutriments are how you expressed who you were.

So, why shouldn't they become routine, or ordinary?

It's the same for many women. As they were growing up, somethings like getting their ears pierced, their first bra, their first makeover at a salon, etc. were thrilling to many. And one can go into a store or salon and still see the thrill some still have. For others, it may not have the same thrill, but there is some satisfaction gotten out of it, or they wouldn't be doing it. For some it does become a chore.

Why would/should it be any different for us?

So, I wear panties everyday. Should I get a thrill out of it everyday? Of course not. Especially since I wear them to satisfy an indescribable urge that comes from being trans, not to be turned on or thrilled by them. It's not a fetish. I don't CD for the thrill. But I can get a thrill out of doing somethings, just like a GG might get a thrill out of doing something new.


I think that the fact that I continued to do them after the newness and the thrill was gone was evidence (probably accurate) to my wife that I had accepted these things as a natural and necessary part of who I am.
And what's wrong with that? It's the same for many of us. It is a natural and necessary part of who we are.

I guess you already know that, but are of the opinion that your wife hoped otherwise. That she hoped it wasn't so, thus you would be able to stop. Wishful thinking on her part? Your part?

We shouldn't try to fool ourselves or our SOs. We (most of us anyway) are transgendered. Or dual-gendered. We have an innate need to express that duality by crossdressing. Some are TS, and have a need to express that by how they look physically and in various degrees. Self acceptance is key to our well being.

I know that doesn't relieve the pain of a divorce. But just because your wife couldn't accept who you are and have always been, doesn't mean you should see that as a fault of yours.

And it's not a fault of hers either. Some people can adapt, some can't.

[Michelle (Oz)]

The bottom line to that question is that if I would have done it at all I would have stayed in the closet. If the question was "what do I think I could have gotten away with and still be married" I don't knkow. May be if she had known all about it, but I kept it completely separated from my daily life. Not wearing panties 24/7, not shaving my legs, not having girls clothes and things mixed in with my boy stuff. She might could have handled knowing, but it being inescapably in her face all the time was too much.

It gets back to that give and inch, take a mile thing. I took the mile. I probably could have gotten away with the inch.

I'm sorry that you are suffering Rhonda and appreciate the warning that you have given. It is too easy over time to integrate CDing into our lives as we gain confidence and want to be "better" at presenting but it is also easy to forget what it means to our wives. In a perfect world, I'd say that integration was also the sign of a successful CDer.

For some time I resisted having a separate life wanting my wife to fully participate and pushing her to help with makeup and go out dressed with me.

This lead to anxst for both of us. Now it seems easier to present as male at home and dress when I am traveling. I've stopped wearing any female clothing at home but take full advantage when away. Fortunately that happens pretty much weekly. I don't know that I could cope otherwise.

There is a fine line between my nails being too long for her and long enough for me. Thankfully she is OK with body hair reduction.

I try to keep my dressing out of her face. I hate having to keep a very important part of my life out of our relationship but it is our way of coping. Hopefully, over time, the situation will improve and tolerance will turn to support.

Michelle (Oz)

[RobertaFermina]

Rhonda Jean,

Thank you for sharing so openly and without rancor or self-congratulation or self-pity.

I love that you offer "just what happened" and "what you noticed" as your perspective was jolted.

I hope to see more posts from members of this type - heartfully objective, neutral, poignant.

:rose: Roberta :rose:

[Satrana]

In the end she could no longer love me. She saw no value in being loved so much by me.


That is the saddest part of all, it breaks my heart to hear it.

I agree with Donna though, you are beating yourself up unnecessarily due to the pain of your divorce. Many of these markers such as hair and facial products are not feminine at all. You had every right to use these as a man. If your wife did not know about the crossdressing, she would probably be delighted that you took good care of your appearance. These items only become markers that irritated her because she knew their context. So it was her knowledge that you were a crossdresser that made all the difference.

After such a long time together it is also sad that your wife could not get accustomed to these things herself. It sounds like she was deceiving herself that she could live with a man with a developed feminine side. I suspect your emulation of a woman, especially if it was that good, did more damage than anything else. She should have communicated this to you clearly long before it reached the stage of divorce.


If one of our male friends, for example had showed up at our card game with shaved legs, long hair, and long nails, I and everyone else would have found that very strange. Yet when I did it I didn't find it strange at all. I never gave it a second thought. That doesn't mean my friends didn't.
Except if they did notice then it must have been nothing more than a passing thought as they remained your friends. That is the mark of a friend, they are non-judgemental and accept your quirks. After all we all have friends who have done weird things and we stick by them and support them, why should CDing be different?

Until we stop believing in the myth that crossdressing is bad and something to feel guilty over then we will never free ourselves. Crossdressing is no more strange than building model aircraft or whacking a little ball around the countryside. We need to understand the truth in that idea and stop believing that we are the problem.

Looking at how much women have taken from male culture over the past few decades shows us that transgenderism is a natural phenomena. Everyone has a masculine and feminine side. It is unnatural to restrict your self expression to just one gender.

[Kristen Kelly]

Rhonda Jean,

Thank you for sharing so openly and without rancor or self-congratulation or self-pity.

I love that you offer "just what happened" and "what you noticed" as your perspective was jolted.

I hope to see more posts from members of this type - heartfully objective, neutral, poignant.

:rose: Roberta :rose:


I agree with you Roberta loved the post heartfully objective, neutral, poignant, when I read it felt like I was looking in a mirror, been doing things so long I didn't remember why I started them but I am still doing it . It is now who I am, and I wouldn't or can't change that.

[Amanda Shaft]

Dear Rhonda Jean, I visit this site daily and enjoy the trivia, the gossip and the chat and I hope that in some way I have contributed to that side of things. Every now and again someone, like you, puts up a real heartfelt and emotional post: one that gets me thinking more deeply than the usual flim flam. Thank you for that.

There have already been lots of good comments here and I agree with most if not all, so I would just like to add my thoughts.

I got divorced about 20 years ago! I’d told my ex about my cross dressing way before we were married yet in the end (we were married about 10 years) it was the thing she said to me was the reason for her leaving. Perhaps like you I did the whole ‘I’ll never do it again’ thing and purged all my gear as to prove it. I never contested her over the divorce, she got what she wanted because I could understand why she went, or at least at the time I thought I did. We had two kids and the fact that she told everyone including them that the reason she had left was because of my womanising I could live with. I could live with it even though it wasn’t true; better that than telling the world what I really did! I suppose in some sort of weird way that was how she saw it: I was having an affair with another woman: she being me! I only told my current partner this year about Amanda after being with her for a number of years. One of the reasons was that I had decided I wouldn’t say anything about c’ding so that it wouldn’t be a reason for someone else to leave me: selfish and deceitful so I told her in the end and so far so good, touch wood.

So two points: One is that divorce for what ever reason is soul destroying but trust me time is a healer and with strength and the support of your friends you will come through this. Looking back now on my divorce I blamed it all on me and my c’ding, I took it on the chin and understood why! Yet the truth was something else, yes my c’ding was a part of the reason but there were others, we (me and the ex) just hung the blame there and I accepted it in a way because it was easier than looking harder at myself and my attitudes in general life that contributed to our marriages demise, I guess now she would say the same. Remember in the end C’ding isn’t the root of all evil!

Secondly I hear your advice since telling my SO I’ve been like a kid in a candy shop, buying stuff getting ears pierced: all the things you can’t do when you’re hiding. I see what you’re saying it’s easy just to let the brakes free and free wheel straight off the cliff! You have reminded me that however accepting my SO is I need to nurture her understanding and make sure she is still getting what she needs from our relationship.

Once again let me say that being able to talk freely and openly with friends about deep issues is to be treasured and it makes no difference if they be next door or in the depths of cyber space! Thank you all for just being there!

Lots of love Amanda

[kittypw GG]

Hi Everybody,
Some of you know I'm going through a painful divorce. This is one of those posts that I hope might help someone. I don't want any of you to go through this. This is not advice, really. Just observations that you may not be able to get until it's too late, as in my case.

When my wife left she said she couldn't take being married to a woman anymore. I swore it was just clothes, etc., etc.. I swore I'd get rid of everything, cut my hair, get rid of every vestige of my femininity and never revisit it. It did that and it didn't help, but...

It was only when I started to try to get rid of everything that I realized how pervasive my "feminine side" had become. I hadn't hid anything from her (or felt the need to) for years. I had more panties and bras than she did. I had more clothes, more shoes, higher heels, shorter skirts, tighter jeans, longer hair, longer nails. I had enough curlers and other hairstyling things to open a beauty shop. Even after I thought I had gotten rid of everything, as time passed I started to notice things that I had long ago quit attaching any cross-gender significance to. I found ponytail holders everywhere. I didn't ever even notice them until after I cut my hair. They were in the bathroom, in my car, in my desk, on my dresser. I had nail files in my desk, car, etc.. All my reading glasses were feminine, and they were everywhere. All my dress socks were women's trouser socks.

I won't go on and on. My point is, there were a lot of things that had lost significance to me. Yet, each of those things served as a marker, a reminder, to her that she was married to a feminine person, to say the least. When I moved out of the house and she was moving back in, she said, "You need to take this." It was my stuff out of the shower. Facial exfoliator, detangling brush, baby oil. It never crossed my mind that these were feminine "markers".

I've been a crossdresser for a very long time. Over time, lots of things had become routine. I no longer thought of them as cd related. Over that same amount of time, they never lost that significance to her.

A lot of things in my cd life have been that way. I see it played out on this board in the difference between the newbies and, well, me. The first time is so wrought with emotion that you notice everything. You watch every face for a reaction. I remember it well. The first time I wore makeup in public, or nailpolish, or earrings, or... you get the idea. Now it's no biggie. I rarely notice peoples reaction. I don't suffer such angst. The reactions are still there, I'm just not looking for them, so It's the same as them not being there (to me).

I'm sure that I passed better when I was 20, but back then I watched every face for a reaction and tried to analyze it. Now I rarely even look. At the end of the day I've seen virtually no reaction from the public. I didn't pass better, It's just that I've become accustomed to what I was doing and wearing and wasn't so overy analytical of every minute response from the public.

Take cding out of it and look at it this way. When you first started smoking or drinking or even driving a car for that matter, part of the experience, part of the thrill, was for people to see you doing it. It added to the pleasure you were already geting from doing it. After you'd done it for a while the "being seen" aspect of it lost all significance. That's the way it is with crossdressing.

At some point in time, all of the things I did or wore realted to being a crossdresser were thrilling. Over the years they lost their thrill, yet I continued to do them. I think that the fact that I continued to do them after the newness and the thrill was gone was evidence (probably accurate) to my wife that I had accepted these things as a natural and necessary part of who I am. It had become too natural, too comfortable, too common to just be done for kicks. If one of our male friends, for example had showed up at our card game with shaved legs, long hair, and long nails, I and everyone else would have found that very strange. Yet when I did it I didn't find it strange at all. I never gave it a second thought. That doesn't mean my friends didn't.

After all this I'm not sure I've even made my point. I'm trying to say that over the years much of my feminine side and all it's accoutrements had become quite ordinary for me. To my wife, none of them ever did. They just kept adding straw to the camel's back.

There is a difference between something that one does and something that one has become. I hope that makes sense. I think it's at the root of a lot of disention between partners. Just add that to the list of things about this "lifestyle" that's very difficult to quantify, justify, or explain. It depends on what side of the fence you're on. Hard to see it from the other persons' side.

Rhonda

I can relate to much of what you have said. It is difficult to quantify, justify or explain from either side. From the gg perspective it is hard to tell your husband that all of their femm stuff and actions are getting in the way of their need to be in a loving relationship with a man. It is hard to put your finger on why this is so dammaging to a relationship. When I try to explain this to my husband I sound trite and selfish. In my head it makes sense but it is very difficult to put into words. Perhaps it is all of the reminders of a second life or self that get in the way. For me to truly believe that it is something fullfilling for my husband to do I have to believe that he cares about his male self as much as the femm self. In many cases the femm self over powers and becomes out of balance and control. This is when it is hard to believe you when you say you don't want to be a women. Where is the evidence that you like being a man? I think, for me, this is really what I need. Balance for me is for him to nurture both the male and the fem self.

I am so sorry that your marriage is ending in divorce. Thank you for your words. Maybe some will read them and come to some conclusions that will save their marriages and relationship before it is too late.

:hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs: Kitty

[Rhonda Jean]

Mine was a case of not seeing the forest for the trees. One reason I couldn't see it is because I thought it was O.K. with my wife. I was truly blindsided. This is a difficult thing to talk about, from both sides. We had serious communication problems. I wish I'd known. Wish I'd had a chance before it was too late. She did not and would not believe that I could permanantly change. I think I can, for her. She is the only prize worth giving this up for. She has quite firmly decided that I'm truly a woman inside. I still think she's wrong, but I can't totally disregard her opinion given that she's been with me my entire adult life.

Now that I'm living alone, I've allowed crossdressing to once again dominate my free time. It is the only thing that seems to adequately kill the pain. I wish it wasn't. I don't think there's a realistic chance to get her back. If it happens, you all will have seen the last of me. If that doesn't happen, all bets are off.

I have kids to think about, and a job. I'll never be a woman full time. Don't think I'll ever want to be.

I worry about my future. I don't think I'll ever have another close relationship. I'll never trust anyone else with the secrets (and thus the ammunition) that I trusted to her. That leaves me to be alone for the rest of my life. I can't imagine living the rest of my life without a woman to love... and to love me back. But, I can't imagine ever loving anyone else enough to give it all up. That leaves casual sex. I've never done that! That's just not me. I can't imagine that it'd ever become me.

My future looks really messed up to me. A man when I have to be. Appearing as a woman when I want to. Integrating a certain amount of femininity into my male life wherever I think I can get away with it. Sleeping alone. Being jealous of whoever ends up with her, knowing that she sees them as the real man I wasn't (to her). It kills me to think of someone else making her happy. I should be that person!

Love is such a complex thing. This strange compulsion for a man to dress and appear as a woman is also extremely complex. Combining the two into such an intricate and complex thing as an ever-lasting marriage is mind-boggling. Somehow, it works for some. I thought for 29 years that I was one of the really lucky ones. That thought was terribly over-simplistic, and wrong. It is a sensitive explosive. At least it was in my case. It messed up both of us, albeit in very different ways.

I have always been prettier as a girl/woman than I was handsome as a boy/man. But... If I could snap my fingers and become the most beautiful and feminine woman in the world at will, it will never be as fullfilling as a truly loving marriage with the woman who was my wife. Oh, I'll be able to go on. I'll find some level of happiness in my messed up life, but there'll always be a hollowness. That's just the way it is.

She always thought (as, I suppose, did I) that crossdressing made me feel "complete". Within our marriage, that may be correct. Without our marriage, there is no "completeness".

I hate these heavy threads. I only introduce them to inspire thought, encourage open communication between partners, and hopefully help someone out there avoid what I'm going through. I enjoyed the "it's so fun to be pretty" threads as much as anybody. Posts like this are a real downer for everybody. I used to skip over them, now I start them. As I've said before, it's not a warning and it's not advice. Your mileage may vary. It is, for me, fulfilling a responsibility to people who have become my very caring friends.

It is so easy for a crossdresser to become so wrapped up in fulfilling those long penned-up feminine compulsions that they overlook the real value in their lives... their WIFE! I did it. I didn't mean to (boy is that an understatement!). I didn't know I was doing it. But I was.

Rhonda

[Carin's Wife GG]

for sharing your story. Communication is really the key to making any of this work. Sometimes we forget to hear the other person's POV. Both sides do this. Again thank you!


Louise.

[sissystephanie]

[B]

Rhonda,

I am sorry for your divorce. I very much respect the vows of marriage and always hate to hear of them being dissolved. That said, I am going to use my 49 1/2 years of marriage to a wonderful, fully supportive lady to do little critiquing of your problems.

Did your wife know you were a CD before you were married? If not, why not? If you were not a CD then, of course you could not have told her. But if you were, and did not tell her, then it is no surprise that you had communication problems.

You said you were "blindsided." I disagree, you just weren't paying attention to the right things. Your "compulsion" to dress apparently was overriding everything else. Including your obligation to place your wife first in everything! Reading your posts in this thread I would be of the opinion that you are not just a CD, but really are a transsexual. That goes along with your wife saying you are more of a woman. It seems that you want to be more of a woman then a man. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but that is obviously not what your wife wanted. You said you would give up being a CD entirely if that would help, but yet you are dressing again! If you really want her back, why? I would suggest a talk with a Gender Therapist to find out what you really want.

If you have read some of my other posts, you would know that I told my fiance before we were married. Her responce was, "do you go out in public dressed?" When I told her no, because I was not good with makeup or my wig, she said, "I can fix that." We had a very happy life for 49 1/2 years before she passed away. The major reason was honest communication! I don't think you and your wife had that, IMHO.

I don't mean to hurt you in any way. I just think you are confused about what you really want, or how to attain it. Plus, of course, you are hurt by the divorce and those of us who have never gone thru that cannot know the feeling. You have my sympathy, and please do consider some professional help!

Sissy/Stephanie

More Girl than man sometimes

[Rhonda Jean]

sissystephanie,
I'm not going to get into it. I thought I was pretty clear that I was/am far from perfect

I went to therapy every week for months. With the divorce, I just can't afford it anymore.

Glad you were able to pull it off so seamlessly for 49.5 years. Not all of us are so lucky.

[Vaerise]

I'm sorry to hear that. I would feel the same as you if I were in your position.

[docrobbysherry]

sissystephanie,
I'm not going to get into it. I thought I was pretty clear that I was/am far from perfect

I went to therapy every week for months. With the divorce, I just can't afford it anymore.

Glad you were able to pull it off so seamlessly for 49.5 years. Not all of us are so lucky.

Rhonda Jean, no one's perfect. Marriage basically, is about two people trying to get along well enough to live together. There's no such thing as "being the perfect partner" unless your SO refers to u that way. And is not being condescending. No matter how hard u try, u cannot make the other person love u or stay with u, if they don't wish to. Some marriages work, a lot don't. I've been there! It's not your fault. Please remember that and move forward with your life. U can do it as long as u keep looking ahead, and not back.
RS

[Michellebej]

Rhonda,

I feel for you, I truely do. The ending of an relationship is seldom easy or painless.

I have seen some good advice and some I believe is kindly meant but; just plain wrong.

Yes; your wife should have been number one in your life. And; you should respect her wants and desires.

But;that ALSO means that YOU should have been number one in her life. And she should respect your wants and desires.

Neither one of you should try to change the basic essense of the other.

The sad fact is that if the two of you, or any two people, can not let the other be who they are AND still maintain them as number one in thier life; then the relationship is doomed.

For most of us, we are who we are because of biology. You can't change who you are.

Good luck hun, and may you find peace and happiness

Love

Michelle