Did you really stop being the "Man" ? (for all to post in now)

[sara_also]

This should be for crossdressers only, I suspect. I intend no disrespect to anyone by this thread, BUT.....

We have all heard or read " I want the man I married ".

This is somewhat confusing to me because I need to ask.
IE: Did you stop being the provider? Did you stop being the person that changes the oil in the car? Did you stop being the one who fixes the sink when it leaks? Did you stop changing the flat tire? And so many other things that men do. Did you stop loving your SO or your family? You get my point..
Perhaps we should regress to being a couch potato that drinks beer and watches sports all day.
In other words what is that you changed to make you NOT the man?
What is it that you are doing different? ( A can of worms I know)..

[sissystephanie]

I am a Crossdresser! But underneath the satin and lace, I am still a man! Always have been and always will be. When my wife was alive I sometimes was her girlfriend! But I was still "her man"! Any married man who forgets that he is "her" man is risking his marriage.

Sissy/Stephanie

More Girl than man sometimes

[Kate Simmons]

Not the last time I looked Sara. Who else is going the do the stuff you mentioned? Although some may like to think that little "elves" come around at night to do it. No such luck here. I'm stuck with it whether I'm a "man", "woman" or something else. In my case, "person" seems to be more applicable because I know any person is able to learn how to do the things a "man" is supposed to do even though society as we know it continually attempts to press everyone into a certain mold. It's just that certain people are better at certain tasks but it all boils down to exposure and experience really and preferences. I'm all thumbs when it comes to something like sewing and would rather do plumbing, electrical or change the oil in the car but it doesn't mean I couldn't learn to sew if I really wanted to.

Nah, Rich didn't go anywhere and is still around. He can't help but pop up when he is needed and despite my affinity for being Sal, is always there. I just pass on the part about eating chips and guzzling beer on the couch, got better things to do these days it seems.;):happy:

[Holly]

Good question Sara, and one that will have more than one answer. Our transsexual members will see it one way, the TG members another, and the recreational CD yet another. There's a lot more to "being a man" than being the provider and the fixer of things. A man has to understand how to provide the emotional support his partner wants and needs. And I think it is in this area that sometimes we may stumble and fall down on the job a bit. I can only give you an answer based on my own experience but what I have found i that if I tend to my wife's emotional needs as diligently as I tend to her physical needs, then I can ask of her and do just about anything I want, be it golf, a new truck, or cross dressing. In the end, it boils down to her trusting that I wouldn't do anything that would hurt her, even if she doesn't fully understand it.

[Amy Lynn3]

Sara:
Your question has peaked my intrest, to the point I would love to hear the GGs comment on it, because they are the ones who ask it most (I want the man I married). Would you consider changing your title to ask for GG comments too ? Just an idea as you know what kind of comments you are looking for.
I for one have not changed a thing in the 40 plus years I have been married. I have always put my wife and children first in my life. I take a back seat (dressing too) to them and I will until I die. Well, maybe some things have changed. The mirror reminded me of that this morning.
I have provided a homebase for my family to run to, where nothing but love and happiness abounds. My family knows when they come to my house they will only be met with love. You know what ? They love coming here and they enter the door with smiles on their faces. That makes me a happy camper too.
Amy

[Marla S]

In other words what is that you changed to make you NOT the man?

You look different and that makes all the difference. Our SOs can't look into our minds ('you get what you see') and everything we do, even if it is the very same, with the very same intention, will be casted in a different light.

We all know that different lighting can dramatically change the mood of a scene, and can make all the difference whether we like it or not.

Changing the mood/aura is a main reason to dress, and the right mood/aura a person emanates is in important criterion to choose your partner. That can clash.

[Rachel Morley]

This doesn't really apply to me because my wife looked to date cder before she met me.. However, I think that what SOs say when they say "I want my man back" is that yes, as Marla above says, we do look different but also we've changed. We ourselves haven't actually personally changed, obviously, but we have changed as far as the SO's perception is concerned, because we are now (seemingly) not the person she thought we were. All along they thought they knew what we were (as a person) and we turned out to be something a little bit different.

The other thing is IMHO, is that it may be that part of what "makes her partner a man" (in her eyes) is how she perceives his "manliness" regarding his behavior. Men do guy things - right? If for the SO "being a man" means acting like one, then there could be a problem here too as dressing in women's clothes might not seem that manly to some SOs. :2c:

[Teresa Amina]

Kinda perpetuating cultural stereotypes with the whole "provider" thing there. Historically speaking the wifey staying home while Da Man goes out and wins bread is a recent (Western) development anyway. Through most of time marriage has been an economic partnership, not an accumulation of grateful (or not) dependents by the male. Fortunately my late wife was looking for a Partner, not a Provider- a role that's never suited me.

[laura47]

Quite the contrary as I ride big Harleys build hot rods do construction work. It is more of a Jeckel Hyde type of life. I would never switch sides but love the Cding.

[Annaliese]

This should be for crossdressers only, I suspect. I intend no disrespect to anyone by this thread, BUT.....

We have all heard or read " I want the man I married ".

This is somewhat confusing to me because I need to ask.
IE: Did you stop being the provider? Did you stop being the person that changes the oil in the car? Did you stop being the one who fixes the sink when it leaks? Did you stop changing the flat tire? And so many other things that men do. Did you stop loving your SO or your family? You get my point..
Perhaps we should regress to being a couch potato that drinks beer and watches sports all day.
In other words what is that you changed to make you NOT the man?
What is it that you are doing different? ( A can of worms I know)..

It is a can that needed to be open.

A lot to think about.

Anna

[docrobbysherry]

This should be for crossdressers only, I suspect. I intend no disrespect to anyone by this thread, BUT.....

We have all heard or read " I want the man I married ".

This is somewhat confusing to me because I need to ask.
IE: Did you stop being the provider? Did you stop being the person that changes the oil in the car? Did you stop being the one who fixes the sink when it leaks? Did you stop changing the flat tire? And so many other things that men do. Did you stop loving your SO or your family? You get my point..
Perhaps we should regress to being a couch potato that drinks beer and watches sports all day.
In other words what is that you changed to make you NOT the man?
What is it that you are doing different? ( A can of worms I know)..


I've read many posts about gurls doing their nails. How could anyone do the above mentioned things with long nails? I bend/break mine if they get an 8th inch long!
RS

[sara_also]

I thank all of you for your comments. It's a wonderful forum that we have here. I did not want to make it seem like any gg's could not comment.
Please feel free to join in if the mood stirkes you.
We are always interested in your thoughts and comments.

[Tree GG]

"I want the man I married" is repeated over & over, but is a very broad statement. Just as I'm sure in your mind you have a quick & easy summation of who your partner is, so do wives. No one's "mental picture" of their mate is all-encompassing nor can stand up under nit-picky dissection and analysis, but there's a set of characteristic and personality traits that will come to mind immediately if someone is asked to describe their spouse.

After many years with someone, whether completely accurate or not, this mental snap-shot is engrained in your base definitions of your reality and life. It's something you don't question, believe it will always be there, almost unchanged. Coming out as a crossdresser, and more importantly IMO, seeing this person you thought you knew full femme rocks your world to the core. I am not suggesting it is a right or wrong reaction/perception, I'm just saying that's the way it is. After 2 yrs, we still have no good, succinct explanation of "what's the big deal?" question. My husband can't understand why it upsets his family and we can't understand why he doesn't understand.

"I want the man I married" could more accurately be stated as "I want the person I married". My husband's behaviors, interests, focuses and goals have changed since coming out. A few changes I am not amused with, a few are no big deal, and a few are for the better. But there is change. You noted specific things like car maintenance and providing for family in your thread. I would like it noted that things like that don't make the man and are stereotypical. I have taken care of car repairs, have worked in mid-management for over 20 yrs and mixed concrete & mow the lawn. That doesn't make me a man. My point being that providing for your family and mechanical items are not the realm of just the "man" in a relationship.

Long enough. I hope you can see how that phrase isn't saying a crossdresser is not a man - it is saying that after coming out, the crossdresser is not the "same man" that the spouse thought she knew.

[sara_also]

Thank you Tree, A wonderful reply and comment. Your reply is exactly what I was looking for.
Thank You again

[Sheri 4242]

Sara,

Perhaps you should also consider asking our SO's since many of them are the ones that say they want "their man." It would be interesting, IMO, to get the input of those that actually say this. That hhaving been said, from my perspective I can see how some (even many) gg so's might, under the right circumstances, make such a statement, and I understand how it has nothing relational with the gm doing certain traditional chores, or being the breadwinner, etc.

First, a reverse look: a gm is dating his future spouse. They are "marriage serious." When they go out to dine or to a movie, she wears sexy, slinky, alluring dresses. When they go to bed she wears inticing nighties. When they go to a professional baseball game, or to the mall shopping, she wears a cute and sassy miniskirt. Then they get married. She begins wearing his t-shirts to bed, jeans to the mall, and a pants suit to dine. He wonders where his girly girl has gone?!!

Now, flip the scenario: a gg is dating her future spouse. He wears beautiful suits to go out to eat; he has some great sports coats for the movies. He wears polo shirts and nice slacks to the mall with expensive loafers. He wears men's pj bottoms to bed. They get married. Now . . .

A.) He isn't a crossdresser. He starts wearing tidy-whities to bed, hole-ridden jeans with old t-shirts and flip flops to the mall.

B.) He is a crossdresser. He starts wearing nighties to bed, panties 24/7/365, miniskirts and MMFMP's around the house.

In all three scenarios -- the gg, and the gm in (A.) and (B.) -- there is one spouse wondering where the person they fell in love with has gone?!!?!!?

It has nothing to do with the person doing chores, or being a provider, or whatever. It has everything to do with "remembering" what was, and subsequently yearning/longing for what was. I've heard many a SO on here say that at times they need the man they married -- and this is from some very accepting wives!!! They generally aren't saying that their CDing husbands are failing to provide, or do their chores -- they are saying that sometimes they'd like some sembelance of the man they married. My wife is as accepting as they come. That said, I know that at times it is okay to be playful in bed dressed as I commonly dress for bed every night (feminine) -- but I also know that from time-to-time she likes me the way were when we were dating and engaged. Conversely, from time to time I'd like her to be in a cute nightie for bed instead of what she usually wears (which is one of my t-shirts).

[Casandra Carrington]

I was dressed when I met my exwife we talked she knew what she was in for from the get go........

I was never the nighty to bed kind...boxers and a tshirt was more me...
I rarely wore wigs since my own hair was half way down my back....
But a face was a must if I was to leave the house...
And always my lets make a deal bag in hand....
his job/her job....thats so in the box...I am out of the box
I can cook and clean do laundry,sew,do crafts...as well as plumbing and mowing the lawn,and change the oil...
I worked 50+ hours a week and attended every P.T.A meeting open house baseball game football game cheerleading boy scouts girl scouts cup cakes for school for 3 kids classes homebaked cookies I never done my cding at home.....she ran the streets with her friends and laid out with other ("men") and I was not the man she married or met...........NO I WAS BETTER my children love me they are now grown but do not care if I am in jeans or a cocktail dress I failed nothing .....I was a success...I was more than a husband...I was a father

[Emily Ann Brown]

Since Tree is the only GG so far I'll pretend to be GG (not a big stretch for this TG) and offer an answer....


I want the physical body I married in bed beside me again. I like chest hair and such. I want to cuddle with someone that I sense is "manly" and "take charge"....I don't want someone beside me in female attire. I'm not a lesbian. When that person says he wants in my panties I want him to mean he wants what's IN my panties.

I want the romantic person I married back again. I want him thinking of my emotional needs, not how unfair it is he got read while out dressed. I don't want to come home to a drag show, I want "Ozzie and Harriett". I want to be the one that gets new female clothing and looks beautiful. I don't want to compete. I want to be the center of his attention again, not his wardrobe.

I want the "normal" person I married back again. I want to not have to worry about keeping our little secret, and all that includes. Life is too short to live like a secret agent. I hate lying to family and friends., and waiting for the bomb to drop.

I want the person back I felt I knew back when we dated and married. This person causes me to doubt everything I thought I knew, and I hate that.


Emily Ann

[sissystephanie]

Since Tree is the only GG so far I'll pretend to be GG (not a big stretch for this TG) and offer an answer....


When that person says he wants in my panties I want him to mean he wants what's IN my panties.

I want the romantic person I married back again. I want him thinking of my emotional needs, not how unfair it is he got read while out dressed. I don't want to come home to a drag show, I want "Ozzie and Harriett". I want to be the one that gets new female clothing and looks beautiful. I don't want to compete. I want to be the center of his attention again, not his wardrobe.

I want the "normal" person I married back again. I want to not have to worry about keeping our little secret, and all that includes. Life is too short to live like a secret agent. I hate lying to family and friends., and waiting for the bomb to drop.

I want the person back I felt I knew back when we dated and married. This person causes me to doubt everything I thought I knew, and I hate that.


Emily Ann

This is what I was trying to say in my earlier post. There has to be honest and open communication between spouses. But the CD must recognize the fact that his wife, and children, come before anything else. My late wife was very supportive of Stephanie, but there was one inviolate rule. I was never Stephanie in any way around our children. That meant no panties if I was staying in the house all day! I agreed to that, and lived up to my agreement.
What it boils down to is being a man first, and a crossdresser second! That is why it is so important to let your fiance know before the marriage, so she can decide if she can live with that. If she can't, and you cannot stop being a CD, then you better find another GG. My wife was supportive, and my GGF is also. Lucky me.:happy:

Sissy/Stephanie

More Girl than man sometimes

[Mitch23]

As usual, Tree, you have said it so much better than I could (and Emily Ann). My wife wants to curl up with me in bed and feel my hairy legs, not my shaved and prickly ones. she would rather that i don't go out with my weird friends on a friday night. i feel for her and know the hurt I cause

mitch

[Casandra Carrington]

Minerva you said it....NORMAL....Pleeeeease.... whats that....

[Jordan]

I agree with the rest we are still men under the make-up and clothes nothing has changed. We are just feel more comfortable and sexy in the clothes we choose to wear

[Carin's Wife GG]

"I want the man I married" is repeated over & over, but is a very broad statement. Just as I'm sure in your mind you have a quick & easy summation of who your partner is, so do wives. No one's "mental picture" of their mate is all-encompassing nor can stand up under nit-picky dissection and analysis, but there's a set of characteristic and personality traits that will come to mind immediately if someone is asked to describe their spouse.

After many years with someone, whether completely accurate or not, this mental snap-shot is engrained in your base definitions of your reality and life. It's something you don't question, believe it will always be there, almost unchanged. Coming out as a crossdresser, and more importantly IMO, seeing this person you thought you knew full femme rocks your world to the core. I am not suggesting it is a right or wrong reaction/perception, I'm just saying that's the way it is. After 2 yrs, we still have no good, succinct explanation of "what's the big deal?" question. My husband can't understand why it upsets his family and we can't understand why he doesn't understand.

"I want the man I married" could more accurately be stated as "I want the person I married". My husband's behaviors, interests, focuses and goals have changed since coming out. A few changes I am not amused with, a few are no big deal, and a few are for the better. But there is change. You noted specific things like car maintenance and providing for family in your thread. I would like it noted that things like that don't make the man and are stereotypical. I have taken care of car repairs, have worked in mid-management for over 20 yrs and mixed concrete & mow the lawn. That doesn't make me a man. My point being that providing for your family and mechanical items are not the realm of just the "man" in a relationship.

Long enough. I hope you can see how that phrase isn't saying a crossdresser is not a man - it is saying that after coming out, the crossdresser is not the "same man" that the spouse thought she knew.

Tree, you said so so well. It's about what you thought you knew. And now what you know is different. The person who CDs is the same person but is different to you because now you *know*. I miss (sometime) my husband. I understand and support his CDing. It is hard for me to understand and explain what this feels like to others including my SO.


Louise.

[JoAnnDallas]

"I want the man I married"

This statement not only applies to us CDer's. It would apply if I was overboard in any endever. That is flying, model railroading, amateur radio, etc.. Any activity where the male member over indulges into an activity. It can also apply to the wife in reverse. "I want the woman I married". In the case of the CDer, if the wife goes off to the extream negitive side of CDing, then her attitutes change and she is now no longer the woman you married. sword can cut both ways.

[crunchysoda]

I started a post and then erased it.

I think Im currently in a unique situation, at least compared to many of the CD'ers here.

I havent seen my bf dressed, the most Ive seen is Victoria's Secret Cotton bikini's he *sometimes* wears, painted toe nails, and sometimes shaved legs.

Currently he is all "guy", no shaved legs, no panties, no painted nails, nada.

When I first found out, I momentarily *did* look at him differently, more fem and dainty and swishy'ness were thoughts coming to mind, the bent wrist, coy look and giggle, nightmare. Those ideas totally turned me off.

After awhile though those ideas seemed more fears than our reality.

I *love*, I *lust* my man, pure and simple. I think about all the physical attributes that attract me to him. He's not a *big brawny* guy but what he has, he uses it well. From his dark black hair, strong neck and broad shoulders, He is mine. I also think he likes these things about him as well. I think he appreciates that I appreciate these things about him.

But when I look at the pictures of him in femme it just shatters all of that. I think why cover up all that yummy'ness w/girly stuff. I do try to understand intellectually, "why" but my heart and gut reaction still remains.

I dont know what I would do if he wanted/needed to dress while I was home or if he wanted to go out.

It's not just the clothes that can change, a person's attitude, personality, actions, mannerisms, ideas, just well about anything *can* change.

My guy likes to work on cars, work in the yard (ok maybe, *like* is a strong word but he does it), works around the house, he also likes to cook (he reminds me that in the professional world more men are chef's than women), he can also sew some, he's a photographer, he's highly intelligent, he knows what he likes (even he has images he wants to see in his reality). He's a talented boy.

His cd side is a small part of him and I try to remind myself of that and not get wrapped up in what everyone else is doing/thinking on the forum. If I didnt try to stay grounded, Id surely run screaming.

I know Ive changed; Ive gained 20lbs since we have been dating, but it's not a different persona. I still have my curves and Ive got the legs baby, that is beside the point though. I do want to lose the weight, mostly for me, I am not comfortable.
I think weight change is a "normal" (yes I know there's no such thing as normal) change, one knows it is a possibility.
When one enters a relationship, thinking about their mate gender bending, is not something most people usually think about.

So yes I do *want* my man, I have him, not just in what he wears or doesnt wear, but his attitude, his everything.

Nothing is perfect, no one is perfect. What is fem and what is masculine can be very blurry at times, it is in the eye of the beholder. I know what I like. I will not feel bad, I will not apologize for that.

[Linda C]

I like being a guy - I am a stay at home dad so I do alot around the house - I am not your typical guy - I ski, bike, hike, run - all the stuff guys like to do and I love hockey - I don't think that you have to become some other than yourself to become a CDer -

[Lisa Golightly]

Well.... I never ever was the man... It was always a case of what you see is what you get..

[Lovely Rita]

This should be for crossdressers only, I suspect. I intend no disrespect to anyone by this thread, BUT.....

We have all heard or read " I want the man I married ".

This is somewhat confusing to me because I need to ask.
IE: Did you stop being the provider? Did you stop being the person that changes the oil in the car? Did you stop being the one who fixes the sink when it leaks? Did you stop changing the flat tire? And so many other things that men do. Did you stop loving your SO or your family? You get my point..
Perhaps we should regress to being a couch potato that drinks beer and watches sports all day.
In other words what is that you changed to make you NOT the man?
What is it that you are doing different? ( A can of worms I know)..


Many if not most were not aware of this side of their man and so when the truth comes out it can make them feel like they got more than they bargained for. Would they have taken the plunge with full exclosure? Something to ask yourselves.

It is not easy for them when they had one image and now have a whole new one. Yes we still perform the same duties but many times there is more to their emotional investment. There is image and a slew of many other things.

I know that I am priviledged to have an SO who supports me but I also am sensitive to the fact that they have to deal with it too.

Thanks for letting me share

[Vaerise]

There's a lot more to "being a man" than being the provider and the fixer of things. A man has to understand how to provide the emotional support his partner wants and needs.

That took the words right out of my mouth.

I'm pre-op, so I'm not a GG either or exactly a CDer either..
But assuming if I'm a GG. I don't need to be a kept woman, both husband and wife can go out and work, both of us can take charge of keeping the house in one piece. If we can't fix it, call someone who can.

I don't expect my man to sit at the couch all day flipping channels, watching sports and guzzling beer. He doesn't have to be a tough guy. But he has to be there when I need a shoulder to cry on, or someone emotionally stronger to be there.

I hope this makes sense..

[Oddlee]

Interesting post, this, especially when compared to Rhonda Jean's post about our own becoming accustomed our cross-dressing. What we forget is the mental picture that someone creates of us. That is their reality. If we surprise our SO with our CD activities, their reality is shattered - which I would guess has the effect of bringing everything about us and their relationship with us into question.

Lee

[charlie]

This should be for crossdressers only, I suspect. I intend no disrespect to anyone by this thread, BUT.....

We have all heard or read " I want the man I married ".

This is somewhat confusing to me because I need to ask.
IE: Did you stop being the provider? Did you stop being the person that changes the oil in the car? Did you stop being the one who fixes the sink when it leaks? Did you stop changing the flat tire? And so many other things that men do. Did you stop loving your SO or your family? You get my point..
Perhaps we should regress to being a couch potato that drinks beer and watches sports all day.
In other words what is that you changed to make you NOT the man?
What is it that you are doing different? ( A can of worms I know)..
I think the thread can be summed up by how I would feel if my wife decided to remove her breasts (I add silcon ones), got Harley Davidson tatoos, cut her long beautiful hair off into a butch, and wore motorcycle boots around the house. If she still cooked, shopped, cleaned the house and did the clothes would she still be the same woman I love? Would she still turn me on? Would I still want to hug, kiss and cuddle with her like before? There is a visual, mental dimension to having a mate of the opposite sex. Crossdressing changes that i believe.

[Zee]

We (as GM's) tend to forget that there is a lot more going on in a womans mind than what logic would dictate. Normally, a man has the ability to articulate quite effectively the entirety of his emotion in a few sentances. We have thought about it, we know where we are comming from and we have made our decision.

Women tend to be somewhat more complex. Moods often switch without a moments notice which startles both the man and woman in a relationship. Often, it is hard for the woman to explain the mood swing as she doesn't fully understand it herself or the reason for it.

The same goes here. As a GM, we have already delved into the emotional pit and defined crossdressing for ourselves, logically and emotionally. Rarely this ideal changes, however it does change, hence the rollercoaster ride CD'ing GM's tend to go through. However, even during the rollercoaster, we have already defined crossdressing for ourselves.

A GG often can be supportive and accepting. Yet, without warning, can almost immediately long for her childhood image of what a man should be. She has defined what it is for her man to be a crossdresser emotionally, not with logic. This will cause her to emotionally react to the changing situation and not use her logic at the outset of the feelings.

A woman often defines her reality with her emotional state; a man often defines his reality with his logic. Rarely are the two compatible on their own. Only when we (both male and female) combine emotion with logic can we really understand where the other is comming from.

I do not think "I want my man back" is indicitive of not being the bread-winner and support mechanism that logic would tell a man. Rather, when a woman states that, it usually means that she has undergone an emotional swing and requires understanding and support. It is important to listen to her at this point, without interruption or explanation, as she most likely wants to get something off her chest. Most likely, this is not an attack, so try not to take what she says as one, but it most likely is an attempt at trying to have her man be supportive while she tracks down her emotional well spring. Often, once she has found the source of her emotion, she will be in a better place to listen to your logic.

So no, " I want my man back" is not an attack upon the man who does the things expected of him around the house. It is a time for the man to listen to the woman he loves and support her in trying to identify why she feels this way. Only when she can identify it, can she listen to the GM and his reasoning.

[Tray]

Like Emily said, I like chest hair and such. I want to cuddle with someone that I sense is "manly" and "take charge"....I don't want someone beside me in female attire. I'm not a lesbian. When that person says he wants in my panties I want him to mean he wants what's IN my panties. These are the same things I was trying to get my husband to understand. Although I am trying to be accepting and supportive, I want the "normal" person I married back again. I want to not have to worry about keeping our little secret, and all that includes. Life is too short to live like a secret agent. I hate lying to family and friends., and waiting for the bomb to drop. I want the person back I felt I knew back when we dated and married. This person causes me to doubt everything I thought I knew, and I hate that. Having him to just recently tell me that he'd tried on woman's panties in his teen years and yet we had to be together this long before he could be totally honest with me about it makes me wonder "what else hasn't he told me about". I am not a private person and so keeping a secret like this from family & friends is hard for me (thank god he stumbled on this forum or I'd be completely nuts)! And like one of the other posts mentioned, change is "normal" in any relationship (I'm not the same size I was 12 years and 2 kids ago) but since "coming out of my closet" he has started kissing me goodbye (something that stopped years ago)and saying I Love You again (something that was said less and implied or "known" over the years). My :2c: is that we all want the people we knew (or perceived) when we were first dating or were newly married back again... problem is that life has happened to us all since then and that in and of itself changes us and so we either accept or at least tolerate the changes or turn tail and run so that we can get that "newness" with someone else, only to have life change them too. Like I've said before, I've invested too much in my relationship to turn tail so I guess I'll accept/tolerate what changes come about and keep telling myself that while he has shaved his chest, put on my dress & used my make-up (even if I help), that underneath it all he is still the man I decided to marry which means I must take the pants with the skirts!

[Michellebej]

I came out to my ex sometime in the first 90 days. Our relationship was one of those whirlwind romances. I was happy and single and WHAM living with a woman and wondering "what in the h*ll happend?".

I believed in being open and honest. After all we were talking about starting a family. So I told her all of my secrets and totally opened my soul to her.

Interestingly; it took me TWELVE YEARS to learn all of her "little" secrets.

When she met me I was in Law Enforcment, with a Military background that included assignment to a Special Forces Group. That was a result of my overcompensation.

I wanted to make sure that she understood exactly what she was getting into. Unlike some, I am more of a "two spirit" type of girl. When I am in the "zone" my mannerisms, attitude, poise, and everything else you can list change.

So; I told her to meet me at a bar in the City ( San Francisco) and pick me out. She thougth it would be easy. She walked past me three times on her circuit of the room, and never gave me a glance. She finally had me paged and you could have knocked her over with a feather.

We did a lot of talking about it. Seems she liked it. A lot. She seemed to open up and would tell "me" things she could/would not tell "him".

Things were great. Till she entered a 12 step program to control her prescription drug abuse. The group she was with had a slightly conservative Christian slant to it ( Ironic in that I'm a Republican, and she is an extremely liberal Dem.). All of a sudden she needed "the man she married". Of course this was three months after she had started her affair with the man she left me for. Turns out it was only the first of many demands that were scripted to tick me off enough to toss her out.

One day she called me on the phone and told me that I was the best friend she ever had, the best lover, the best husband ( I was number 2), the greatest father she had ever seen, and that she still loved me. But; she loved her boyfriend more than she loved me. That was that.

Well that and she had a "New God"; a "New Path"; a "New Life"; a "New Family"; and she 'needed' a "New Husband" who could "understand" her. And; since I had never done drugs, or been promiscous ( she had cheated on me several times in our marriage); well then "how could I possibly understand and support her?".

The new guy was a "manly man". Tall, blond, handsome. Came from money. Truck driver, BMXer, four-wheeler, didn't do chores or as he calls them "womens work" around the house. Slightly homophobic. The ex tried to make points with him by playing the "Abused wife". Not in the physical sense, but; in that "he made me play those awfull cross dressing games". This resulted in him actually attacking me as I walked down the street. I guess the ex forgot to tell him about my Grandfather, the former boxer( and middle weight contender), raising me......

Ten years roll on and now she is a drunk and an addict, Her Drivers lic. is gone; her car has been impounded; she is back on drugs; and the darndest thing happened a couple of months ago. She hates her "ex husband". But; she called to talk to "Michelle". She "remembered" that Michelle was her best friend, and the "only one to really know me". Somehow in her drunken stuper she honestly thinks that "Michelle" is a seperate person from her ex-husband.
and; in a way she is right.

She complained that "her manly man" was always neglecting her "doing Manly man things". She complained that their sex life was almost non existant and when it occurred it was short and over when her husband was through. Usually three to five minutes. We talked for a couple of hours.

The short version is that at one point she thought that she needed the non-existant "man I married", and when I wasn't it, she found a man who was. And; ten years latter she is miserable with nowhere to go.

Who says there is not a GOD?

Love

Michelle

[Joann0830]

At my age 59 I am still who I was when I was born and still do what has to be done no changes, I am stii a CDM but still fix and do everything else I have been doing all my life. We are here for you in thoughts and I will say in prayer Joann:love::heehee:

[Angie G]

I'm still the man she Married I'm just a bit softer as times I still do all the things I did befor she knew IMHO! :hugs:
Angie

[Satrana]

It is mostly driven by perceptions and expectations.

Did you ever notice that "bad boys" never seem to have trouble finding partners even though logically they should not have as they have many disagreeable behavioral traits. In contrast, a meek, quiet, unassuming man who does not project a stereotypical masculine look or behavior is considered weak and impotent and does not attract female attention.

The more masculine trait boxes that are ticked, the more "manly" the male becomes in the eyes of others, and the more desirable he becomes as a partner. Women want to be proud of their partners not ashamed of them.

And therein lies the problem. Because the male role remains strictly defined, any deviation, especially towards stereotypical feminine looks and behavior, is regarded negatively. Unlike women who have ventured into male domains and are considered heroes, men venturing into female domains are disregarded and usually mocked.

So not only do GGs have to deal with the visual shock of changes in appearance but as the stereotypical masculine boxes get unticked one by one, the manliness quotient disappears and the resulting personality is something which society despises. How can a GG remain proud of her partner under these circumstances?

It is a very grating experience for GGs to remain supportive of this process and understandably they desire to return to the normality of conformity and stereotypical traits which match their expectations. It is comforting to know that you fit in and are "normal"

It is a sad indictment on society that people can not recognize that a man remains a man even if he does not project the standard traits expected, regardless if he is a CD or not.

[Wendy me]

i think i have two people liven in me ..... no i know i have two people liven in me .... see i can be as girlie as any one loven my fem side not relay buying into that pink fog thingy it is what it is loven my fem side ..... on the other side we have "HIM" and we visit that side as often as we need to "HE" can do almost any thing "manly" .... fix things or break them ..... "he" dose the hunting and fishing and takes care of things around the house ...

see i think i am quite happy with my two sides each have their place and each their purpose ....and it's taken a lot to get to the part were i can be happy all femed up .. or up to my elbows in grease ..... what i call playing nice together .......

[KimberlyS]

Sara, a good thread. Before my wife and I were married, I was a handy guy to have around. I could build kids toys to houses, fix the toaster and other things, worked on the car, loved power tools, could cook and bake, made a great pot roast and caramel corn, would load the dish washer and do dishes by hand, would vacuum and clean the house, and sew not only buttons but clothes from scratch, and many many other things both "masculine" and "feminine".

After we were married I have done the same things, some we do together, some either of us do the tasks, and some we just split most of the time. And yes on the ones we split they tended to be by gender stereotypes. But I still do or help with many "feminine " tasks, and my wife does do or help with some "masculine" tasks. And this has not changed since my coming out to her as a CDer. Well except for I do more feminine shopping.

But when we were working through the CDing issues about 10yrs into our marriage, my wife did state the "I want the man I married". While working through the issues I was able to finally make her see that I had not changed who I was. I only looked more feminine at times.

And interestingly just last night during a discussion we were having my wife restated to me that while I was dressed enfemme my "male" traits, personality, and actions come though. So I am true to what I say. I am just a joe in a skirt.

KimberlyS-CD / joe

[MJ]

well for me i was never the man !! but god knows i did my best to be the man. in the end i just gave up .. now what you see is what you get

[JULIE33362]

Perhaps we should regress to being a couch potato that drinks beer and watches sports all day. LOVE IT IF THAT WHAT MY WIFE WANTS I SAY GO FIND HIM SEE YOU I LOVE WHO I AM

[sara_also]

Iwant say that this thread has done exactly what I had wanted it to do.
MAKE PEOPLE THINK
I love all of your comments and different attitudes.

I said to my very supportive wife this morning that by reading between the lines you can almost tell what kind of a relationship each of us have.

It is a wonderful thing this forum, and I believe that it can help us all. No matter where each of us is at. Beginner, novice, or old hat.

Thank you again for your time and efforts.

Huggs to all......Sara

[Tip or Ozma]

. . . While working through the issues I was able to finally make her see that I had not changed who I was. I only looked more feminine at times

Kimberly,

That is where my wife and I are in our relationship--excellent way to state it. The challenge is balancing the two "looks' to suit us both.

[Carin's Wife GG]

I had to go back 29 years and remember what attracted me to my DH. I had lots of choices back then. Plenty of young and even older men who were interested in me, lol. I met my DH at 15, he was 22. That first time I saw him I knew I would eventually marry him (we lived in Ireland). We met each other without my strict prents knowing. When I was 17 he immigrated to CA. He came back to visit, I had time to *play around*, we did get married when I was just 20.

I chose HIM because he was not the typical male. Somehow i knew he would always be faithful, honest, loyal a great father and responsible. He has been ALL of those things and more. And I found him sexy (still do). He was sensitive, thoughtful and very intelligent. He was not a drinker or a womanizer, ever. Looking back there WAS a feminine part of him only I did not recognize it (nor did he) at the time.

In all the years we have been together (24 years next month) he has made me the most important thing in his life. He adores me, I know this. Take away all the CD/TG stuff and he is still the same wonderful person I married.

Over the years we have been very busy! We raised 7 children and a few who stopped by for periods of time. There wasn't much time to think of what if anything I was missing! This thread really made me think. I think I am missing the *male* male. Nothing to do with CD/TG stuff, just a *different* kind of man to be around. Not that I would want to marry such a man, lol, but sometimes that grass is greener over there.

In reality I am faithful and adore my husband. I want us to be together for as long as we are both alive. I wouldn't want to be with anyone else. Sometimes the CD/TG stuff can be a bit overwhelming but we are getting better at communicationing with each other about all of that.

So yes he is the *MAN* around here, he just has that softer side that attracted me to him in the first place.

I hope he reads this, we have had a rough year. He has been beyond wonderful under the enormous pressure our family has been through. So for that i thank him and say again I love him!


Louise.

[chantelle]

I am sitting and reading all these posts. Thoughts running through my mind that makes me aware how different i am. I never try to be the man. Never feel the need to be a man. THinking back upon my marraige, i was told that she hated me being girlish. Now she is sitting with another mans child and i am living my life like i want.
Strange world we life in. There is a reason for cds,ts and ftm people on the planet. Let the woman want what they want. It is their right to want a man. Yet those same women must not return later and say "He beats me, or drinks beer all the time."
Given that we are different doesnt that make us better men than the regular "Men "
Just a thought.
Hugs all
Chantelle.

[morgan51]

[I]'ts so difficult to keep in mind I need to keep my family's needs before my cd needs I am selfcentered and must work at putting them first all the time and I know the are times I fail miserably. Morgan.:2c: