Guy at work caught.

[Lee Andrews]

One of our sub-contractors was working away the other day and unknown to him his shirt came out of his pants exposing a lace black thong. No one said anything to his face but it is all over the job site. I personally did not see it or ever know the guy (there is up to 100 guys any given day) but it is amazing the stuff and unfounded things that are being said about this poor guy.

It was a sad thing to see but I couldn't do much about it. I work construction and the guys are ruthless. I couldn't say much it defence of the guy for fear of being exposed myself. I sat at the lunch table with the knowledge these guys are never going to accept a different way of life.


With those thoughts running around my head, I double checked my shirt was long enough so they could not see the silky pink panties I was wearing!:heehee:

[dl_pink_pink]

as long as you do not participate in the ridicule of this guy.

you can simply say "that you don't care what he wears"

a snowflake in an avalanche never feels responsible

[nikki_t]

It's herd mentality too though. When a couple folks start on their soap boxes everybody else wants to join in because they want to be part of the herd. I'll even wager some of the more vocal ones went home that night and dressed in panties and a bra. :winking:

[DW]

I too work construction, and have worn panties to work for years. The secret is wearing black panties without lace and no one can tell. I have even changed in locker rooms without anyone taking notice.

[Lee Andrews]

I didn't say anything good or bad. I felt the need to stick up for the guy but just couldn't do it. I was actually called out for not saying anything because I'm a far bit vocal nomally on most topics. I just kept my head down and read my paper.

[Tina Dixon]

How can you work construction in a lacy thong, granny panties would be much more comfy!

[nikki_t]

I felt the need to stick up for the guy but just couldn't do it. I was actually called out for not saying anything because I'm a far bit vocal nomally on most topics.

Hence the herd mentality.



granny panties would be much more comfy!

Got any spare you can loan out Tina? :p

[Ðarissa]

That would be a drag to be the guy who got caught. I bet there's more than just the two of you wearing panties around there. ;)

[Deborah Jane]

I didn't say anything good or bad. I felt the need to stick up for the guy but just couldn't do it. I was actually called out for not saying anything because I'm a far bit vocal nomally on most topics. I just kept my head down and read my paper.

I can sympathise with that..I work in the motor trade and once some of these guys get their hooks in you, they make your life hell:(

[Leah B]

Have you told the guy he's being gossipped about? There probably is a way to defend him without having to out yourself. And even if you did get outed, between the two of you, and a hundred other people, there are probably enough people to form a clique and push back against those jerks. I'd wager that there are a few other guys out there like you that want to back this guy up, but are afraid to because they think no one's got their back. Find these people. They're as intimidated by the herd as anyone else, but in a herd that large, chances are that there are people who agree with you.

Is there anyone you're solid with? Anyone with whom you feel shared loyalty? Maybe you could say something like "I don't think it's right how everyone's after so-and-so. It's his business, just let him alone." Then just gauge reactions.

OR, you could just come out to so-and-so and let him know he's not alone. You'll have an instant bond, and unless so-and-so is a total flake, you'll have his loyalty, which would insulate you from being outed by him.

I don't know what it's like where you work, but this seems like an opportunity to me. There are a few real villains here, to be sure, but I'm willing to wager that minds can be changed about this, and they NEED TO be. This is how our agenda as CDs and transfolk is advanced. Person by person, workplace by workplace until a plurality of people can say "I know a guy, and he ain't so bad. I don't get it, but there's nothing wrong with it."

That's how the GLBs are making it work for them, and thats how its going to have to work for us.

[Annesah]

Well Said Leah B! I too work construction. When presented to a new worksite I aquaint myself with some of the more reasonable and friendly guys and after a while find a convienient excuse to out myself. It's usually something like them hating to shop with the wives and SO's on the weekends
and my leting on how I just love the opportunity to go malling with the girls. Word gets around pritty fast after that. While I behave like a regular guy
I dress quite fem on the job during the warm months and have never had any trouble. Once they know they seem to accept it no questions asked. It's not as though they are wierded out or embarrased. It's just OK! It's as though if I'm open and unashamed of it crossdressing is not an issue. I think that you girls who suspect that there are more of us than we might think are right on the money. I wear my floral print panties with pride and confidence.

[Julogden]

With those thoughts running around my head, I double checked my shirt was long enough so they could not see the silky pink panties I was wearing!:heehee:
Hi Lee,

I'd be willing to bet that you weren't the only other guy who checked to make sure their panties weren't showing too. :heehee:

Carol

[Jordan]

that is why this type of life is so hand no understanding from anybody

[Butterfly Bill]

How can you work construction in a lacy thong, granny panties would be much more comfy!

Commando is the best, especially in the summer. In the winter I wear black Cuddl-Duds.

[Carroll]

Well Said Leah B! I too work construction. When presented to a new worksite I aquaint myself with some of the more reasonable and friendly guys and after a while find a convienient excuse to out myself. It's usually something like them hating to shop with the wives and SO's on the weekends
and my leting on how I just love the opportunity to go malling with the girls. Word gets around pritty fast after that. While I behave like a regular guy
I dress quite fem on the job during the warm months and have never had any trouble. Once they know they seem to accept it no questions asked. It's not as though they are wierded out or embarrased. It's just OK! It's as though if I'm open and unashamed of it crossdressing is not an issue. I think that you girls who suspect that there are more of us than we might think are right on the money. I wear my floral print panties with pride and confidence.

I don't doubt that we have seen each other, but there is only one way to find out......:D

[Wenda]

Another reason for me to not wear lace at work. Too much risk, not enough gain. nice little cotton thongs work well for me. w.

[Karren H]

Coal mining isn't much better.... But I do not wear anything fem underground... Way too much of a chance to get injured down there..... I'd hate to count on a bunch of guys to get me safely out of the mine after seeing me in a bra and panties... hehehe Lots of places to hide a body orr two in the gob.... But my trunk usually has a suitcase full of Karren's clothing!! lol For after work...

[Angie G]

It sucks that that guy can;t just be left alone people can be real sh-- heads :hugs:
Angie

[Jocelyn Quivers]

I'm sure several guys joining in on the joking were probably sweating bullets, and worrying that they might be outted as well.

[paulaN]

Wolfs I tell ya wolfs. Construction workers are wolfs. That's one reason I hated it so bad. I only managed to stay with it for 6 months, that was more than enough for me. That time in my life was a real low point. I had to do the same thing as you. I wanted to stand up and say HAY!!! A** HO*** What's wrong with you, but I did not have the ba*** to do so and I hated that part of me. It made me feel like such a coward. I hate construction workers back stabben bas*****. nuff said sorry for the rant.........

[MJ]

my heart goes out to him , i understand boys will be boys .. but this is why we are still in hiding .. nobody as the right to put down another ... i would wear bright pink panties to work in support of him ..

just like the school boys did .. when a bully picked on a guy for wearing pink to school they did too ... now that takes bal*s

[shauna 9]

It sucks that that guy can't just be left alone

[Marla S]

Poor guy.
What irritates me though is that nobody said something when they saw it. Those construction workers I worked together for a while, wouldn't have had any problems to burst out laughing instantaneously.

[charllote34]

oh my god! that reminds me off the time i had a hole in my sock and my big red toe nail popped out :D

[Sarah Rabbit]

One of our sub-contractors was working away the other day and unknown to him his shirt came out of his pants exposing a lace black thong. No one said anything to his face but it is all over the job site.
I'd be questioning why some of these 'guys' was looking down at this guys butt...make you wonder doesn't it;)

Sarah R. :bunny:

[trannie T]

How can we even dream of gaining any kind of acceptance when we allow others to be degraded? By not saying anything we are participating in our own defamation.

It is not necessary to jump up on the table and scream thet the guy has the same taste in underwear as you. A quiet statement that he has the right to wear what he chooses, or simply asking your co-workers why they were checking out his butt should be sufficient.

[goofus]

One of our sub-contractors was working away the other day and unknown to him his shirt came out of his pants exposing a lace black thong. No one said anything to his face but it is all over the job site. I personally did not see it or ever know the guy (there is up to 100 guys any given day) but it is amazing the stuff and unfounded things that are being said about this poor guy.

It was a sad thing to see but I couldn't do much about it. I work construction and the guys are ruthless. I couldn't say much it defence of the guy for fear of being exposed myself. I sat at the lunch table with the knowledge these guys are never going to accept a different way of life.


With those thoughts running around my head, I double checked my shirt was long enough so they could not see the silky pink panties I was wearing!:heehee:

Wow...I thought Canadians were cooler than that...evidently not. Makes me glad I don't work in some super macho profession with super macho guys...

[Samantha43]

oh my god! that reminds me off the time i had a hole in my sock and my big red toe nail popped out :D

That happened to me in gym class in high school. We had to take our shoes off for gymnastics. Out pops a red toenail. :redface: No one saw it....thank goodness. I hurried up and turned the sock around so the hole was on the bottom of my foot. I can't imagine what would have happened if someone would have seen it.

[Stephenie S]

You know, girls, a simple statement like, "Hey, the guy has a right to wear whatever he wants to wear", would have meant so much and possibly done so much good that's it's almost shameful to hear you all agreeing that "Isn't it awful how insensitive guys can be."

Come on now. You don't have to "out" yourself to stand up for basic human dignity.

You are all lamenting how awful guys can act. Aren't you doing the same thing by keeping silent? Supose they were all making fun of the Jew, or the Spic, or the Black? Why is it only the fag or queer that doesn't deserve any basic human defense?

Listen to what Trannie T has said.

Stephie

[Lee Andrews]

What's wrong with you, but I did not have the ba*** to do so and I hated that part of me. It made me feel like such a coward. I hate construction workers back stabben bas*****. nuff said sorry for the rant.........

I felt pretty much the same but we are not all bad.


trannie T
"How can we even dream of gaining any kind of acceptance when we allow others to be degraded? By not saying anything we are participating in our own defamation.

It is not necessary to jump up on the table and scream thet the guy has the same taste in underwear as you. A quiet statement that he has the right to wear what he chooses, or simply asking your co-workers why they were checking out his butt should be sufficient."

It's easy to say but a lot harder to do. I have alot riding on my job and have worked very hard to get were I am in this company to throw it all away and start over again. I can't take a chance of outting myself at work. As you can tell life would be hell and I would have to leave.
I've never worked in an office so I can't compare the two environments but I think an office would be a little more accepting. Socially I do my part with friends and family and it helps to have a friend who is gay. People know I don't tolerate any b.s. when it comes to that.

It's bad enough my job can be dangerous and If I was hurt on a given day someone might discover my secret because I didn't take off my toe polish or happened to wear a pair of panties that day.


I'd be questioning why some of these 'guys' was looking down at this guys butt...make you wonder doesn't it

Sarah R.

From what I understand he was working in a high traffic area bent over doing whatever plumbers do and it was very noticeable.

[mike47]

I have worn my thongs and stalkings to work. I really do enjoy it but at the same time I am very conscience of my shirt being tucked and pants pulled up at all times. Rather strange but in the long wrong I did enjoy being dressed with these under garments.

[bgirl]

Wolfs I tell ya wolfs. Construction workers are wolfs. That's one reason I hated it so bad. I only managed to stay with it for 6 months, that was more than enough for me. That time in my life was a real low point. I had to do the same thing as you. I wanted to stand up and say HAY!!! A** HO*** What's wrong with you, but I did not have the ba*** to do so and I hated that part of me. It made me feel like such a coward. I hate construction workers back stabben bas*****. nuff said sorry for the rant.........

We are way worse then wolves. We have been known to imitate rugby players and eat out dead!!!! Ruthless!!! Believe it or not, there are many STRAIGHT non-crossdressing construction workers that wear pantyhose in the winter as a part of multiple layering. And I have heard guys who get grief just say @#$%& off! Usually they are mean enough to do what they want. They are 10 years behind in human rights and 100 years behind in respect and dignity. I just happened to be one of the crossdressing carpenters that didn't get caught. Now retired. But I never wore black lace thongs to work. The nerve of some people!!
I did have an electrician ask me if I was gay because I wear earings, I told if he was looking for a date he was talking to the wrong guy.
As to the coal miners, anything you wear becomes black so wear whatever you want down there. Its to dark to see anyway and if they are flashing their miners light down there, well.....enough said.

[noname]

If it were me I would have defended him. Of course I don't really care what anyone thinks. Besides, have you ever known the gossip crowd to really get ahead in life?

[Sally-Ann]

That would be a drag to be the guy who got caught.

Please tell me the pun was intentional? :)

[dl_pink_pink]

More thoughts in regarding a crossdresser engaging in crossdressing bashing

How do you expect to make any progress with being part of the problem? It would be like being part of a religious group and wanting that religion to come forward and be accepted but at the same time you are one of the police officers arresting people of that same religion.

If any transgender or crossdressing bashing is going on, do not participate (saying that it is a herd mentality is a sign of weakness) You are better than they are

[Amy Hepker]

It makes me wonder how many others feel the same way you do. I mean in a guys world, nobody wants to let on you may be wearing girls things do to all the feedback just like this guy is getting. I would bet that probably out of the 100 that were there, that maybe at least 15 others probably dress at one time or another, they just don't get caught. I mean would you defend him in front of everyone else there, well then you know how every other crossdresser out there feels too.

[Jamie001]

Again as someone stated, it is "standing up for basic human rights". All that you have is that the guy has the right to wear anything that he wants. Some of you girls are so worried about outing yourself, that you won't even stand up for the basic human rights of another CDer. Yes I would stand-up for the CDer's rights and I have done so in the past at work.

Please, please don't be part of the problem! We need to be part of the solution. Basic human rights are more important that anything in the world.

To the original poster:

When they start talking about the guy that wore the panties again, stand-up and say that he has the right to wear what he wants to wear. I am sure that he is feeling very much alone and could use a friend and someone to take his side. Please don't chicken-out.

:2c: Jamie

[Leah B]

Besides, have you ever known the gossip crowd to really get ahead in life?

Yes! Gossip-mongering is an excersize in power. You can build and destroy reputations with gossip, you can make people fear you by turning others against your enemies.

Ask a middle school girl if gossip can get you ahead.

[bobby_hansen]

Maybe it was because he lost a bet, much like the concrete worker on "Dirty Jobs" that Mike Rowe caught wearing a black thong....

[Kris]

If it were me I would have defended him. Of course I don't really care what anyone thinks. Besides, have you ever known the gossip crowd to really get ahead in life?

Okay, I just have to add my :2c: and it's not going to be very..... liked. Yes the gossip crowd does get ahead in life, are you serious? If you fit in with the bosses crowd you are going to get what you want. It's easy to say you don't care what anyone thinks, as I don't and often voice my unpopular opinion - but I am not going to do it in a place that can be dangerous to my health and well being. In the construction field there are many ways to "hurt" your coworker and believe ME you want to feel that someone has your back in case that happens. You wont ever have that security again.


Again as someone stated, it is "standing up for basic human rights". All that you have is that the guy has the right to wear anything that he wants. Some of you girls are so worried about outing yourself, that you won't even stand up for the basic human rights of another CDer. Yes I would stand-up for the CDer's rights and I have done so in the past at work.

Please, please don't be part of the problem! We need to be part of the solution. Basic human rights are more important that anything in the world.

To the original poster:

When they start talking about the guy that wore the panties again, stand-up and say that he has the right to wear what he wants to wear. I am sure that he is feeling very much alone and could use a friend and someone to take his side. Please don't chicken-out.

:2c: Jamie

Standing up for human rights and the rights of cd'ers to wear what they want is important and I have to tell you there is a time and place for everything. I know that if I had been there, being a woman, I would have said... why do YOU care what undies this man is wearing? But then because I am a woman, I was "taken care of" by the guys that I worked with because I could shovel with the big dogs and dish the $hit back at them as well as they could.

Many times you are in a position where you need someone to watch your back and lets face it ladies there are people out there that are cruel and in "pack" situations, they want to out do each other.. and it is freaking dangerous. They feed off each others hate.

PLEASE stop judging a fellow cd'er who felt compassion and empathy for a man who was being made fun of. She didn't participate, she didn't join in with the joking, she just took care of herself by reading the paper. This is mighty close to victim blaming.......

It's not the posters responsibility to change minds.. IMHO, it is people who DONT cd. More progress is made when someone who doesn't cross dress says, who the heck cares?? And for goodness sake, PLEASE, if you do stand up and defend someone make sure it is in a place that you are SAFE and wont be hurt. These things DO happen.

:hugs: and :love:'s,
Kris

[Sinthia]

Stephenie S. hit it right on the head. 'A guy has a right to wear whatever he wants to wear'. And when you say that you do not give yourself out. Just your belief that people have a right to do as they please, so do not tread on their rights.

[Melinda G]

There's an old saying, "Pick your battles". Why waste your time fighting a battle you can't win. The guys reaction was wrong, but to be expected. Just one more good reason to keep your crossdressing and your employment separate. I've been CDing since I was 14. That said, I don't understand why so many of you feel the need to wear womens clothes to work or other places where you might get caught, and exposed. Some of you can't seem to put aside the crossdressing, long enough to go to work, and get back home. You are not going to change the world. And certain professions attract a certain type of macho guys, that will never change, or accept what we do. Why expose yourself to that kind of ridicule and embarrassment.

[traceyanne]

i work in a large computer manufacturing plant , work force is approx.60% male in my area and i have told them all that i c/d, mostly everyone just seems to accept it with some lite hearted ribbing, they like to ask what im doing weekends, what im wearing etc. i just tell them truthfully what i get up, but because none of them have actually seen me dressed they dont know if im kidding them on or not
some times if the ribbing is getting a bit much, i just point out that i bet im not the only one here who is doing it and that normally works, shuts them up quick

[MsJanessa]

I didn't say anything good or bad. I felt the need to stick up for the guy but just couldn't do it. I was actually called out for not saying anything because I'm a far bit vocal nomally on most topics. I just kept my head down and read my paper.

you simply say---"who give a s*&t? ? I've got better things to do than worry about some other guys underwear."

[flatlander_48]

Discussions and interruptions like tend to devolve to this: "I ain't working next to no fag...".

What you have to remind people of is:


Does than make him incompetent in his job?
Did he hit on you?
Last I looked, it was a free country and people can wear what they want...
He probably wouldn't hit on you. You're too ugly...

[Sarah Rabbit]

Why are some of you blaming lee20062 for not standing up to the pack of morons. Not a smart thing to do, especially in an industry that is probably saturated with narrow minded morons. It is easy to sit behind a keyboard and 'talk the talk'. Would you be so brave to 'walk the walk' if you were there in that situation. We all want to change societies views about us, but let us be wise and pick the right times and places.

Sarah R. :bunny:

[Annesah]

Wow. I guess I am lucky. How is it that my fellow construction/trades mechanic workers are not wolves, dogs, vampires and morons? As I have said I let them know about Annie not as a favor for them but rather to liberate myself to dress as I wish and, in process, defuse the effects of gossip and speculation. I have ocasionally suffered :heehee: a little "ribing" but always good hearted and good natured. These guys are mostly rough and tumble with backgrounds that do not include prep schools and vacations in Europe. Nevertheless, they are good and reasonably open minded people with a live and let live attitude. There is an occasional AH but the snickers quit when the other guys give him the evil eye! I am proud of them as they have been able to accept me.

[TxKimberly]

I'm the onl male in my family that is NOT in construction! lol
I have a cousin whi is TS in Las Vegas. I was just visiting my mother and step dad a week or so ago and when my cousin was mentioned, he just went off on a half hour tirade. My Mother asked me years ago to never let him know and so all I could do was sit there and bite my tongue.

[scherylnmke]

I've had the unfortunate luck to be on construction sites and most of these guys are total neanderthals!! I always try to stay away from them, and only deal with them when the job dictates. I don't chat or even hang out in the same area as they do on breaks or lunch. It's not just this topic, it's pretty much everything they say or comment on. And If I did encounter this I would probably say the same thing someone else here said' If that's what he wants to wear who cares, and by the way, were you checking out his butt?'

[Annesah]

Kim; time to speak up?:love:

[Kris]

Why are some of you blaming lee20062 for not standing up to the pack of morons.

Sarah R. :bunny:

YEAH .. and I hope that each one of you that gave her a hard time about this are prancing to work dressed where everyone can see you as well.

I am disappointed in the reaction here.

Kris :thumbsdn:

[Lee Andrews]

Thank you Kris, Sarah Rabbit and any others I missed for sticking up for me.

If I was not a CDer I would have said something but because I am that little voice in the back of my head said "Put your head down and don't say anything, someone might figure out a connection!" For all I know, not saying something to defend this STRANGER could have started someone wondering about me because it's out of character for me not to. It was just too close to home for this guy. If it was one of the people in the general contracting company I work for and work with every day then I would have stuck my neck out but not for someone to this day I have never met.

I am just coming to grips with this wonderfull thing I'll call my alter ego. I have been trying to figure it out for 30 some odd years, unsucessfully. Some of you out there know or have come to grips with your dressing and know where and how it is going to fit it into your lives. I am not that blessed, I'm slowly getting there but I have a long way to go. So with all of you out there with all of YOUR confidence in yourselves I bow to your superior state of mind and hope someday to have a big enough set to stand up in front of that crowd and declare "I am a Crossdresser!" and damn it if it screws up my life.:GE:

Lee.

[Stephenie S]

Whoa there Nelly.

I didn't say to "out" yourself. That is your own guilt and shame talking, as you mentioned yourself.

What I said was, "A simple statement that the guy has a right to wear what he wants to wear might have done some good". That's all. This has NOTHING to do with "outing" yourself.

Often we are so consumed with guilt and shame over what we do that we assume EVERYONE around us is just LOOKING for clues to condemn us for what we do. The FACT is that no one gives much of a s**t. And when we witness discrimination of any kind, we are just as guilty as everyone else when we don't speak up.

This is a common theme here. We hear all the time of people worried sick over someone else "suspecting" that we are CDers. Most of the time it's a foolish waste of time.

Yes, construction workers are often inconsiderate boors who tend to have a herd mentality. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt. I built houses in MA for many years. I listened to all this BS myself. But guess what? These "Neanderthals" as you call them are people too and often just need a short reminder that we all need to be tolerant of each other. They go home to family members that are gay and lesbian, other religions, and other races. They may be woried about this themselves. We live in a varied world now.

Just speak up when you hear discrimination. You don't need to get up on your soapbox, just a quiet statement is all that's needed. If no one pays attention, so what? At least you know you said your mind.

Lovies,
Steph

[michellebesweet]

I had the same thing happened to a guy I know. It was not a good thing for his family. It was ashame, because he is a very nice guy. You may want to talk to this guy, and tell him that not all his co-workers think he's strange. Sometimes it takes a strong person to stand up for his rights and still maintain the respect of his peers.

[Kris]

Thank you Kris, Sarah Rabbit and any others I missed for sticking up for me.

If I was not a CDer I would have said something but because I am that little voice in the back of my head said "Put your head down and don't say anything, someone might figure out a connection!" For all I know, not saying something to defend this STRANGER could have started someone wondering about me because it's out of character for me not to. It was just too close to home for this guy. If it was one of the people in the general contracting company I work for and work with every day then I would have stuck my neck out but not for someone to this day I have never met.

I am just coming to grips with this wonderfull thing I'll call my alter ego. I have been trying to figure it out for 30 some odd years, unsucessfully. Some of you out there know or have come to grips with your dressing and know where and how it is going to fit it into your lives. I am not that blessed, I'm slowly getting there but I have a long way to go. So with all of you out there with all of YOUR confidence in yourselves I bow to your superior state of mind and hope someday to have a big enough set to stand up in front of that crowd and declare "I am a Crossdresser!" and damn it if it screws up my life.:GE:

Lee.

Lee,
You are more than welcome for my assistance but I would have done it for anyone .. who it feels is getting blamed for not interrupting an abusers statements. What freaking CRAP that is............ it's not your job change the world. It's my job, is my childrens job, it's our future of the worlds JOB..... it' aint gonna happen in this life time no matter how much we hope so. And not in a construction site of all places.

PS.. People live in the illusion that they have a superior state of mind, and personally I bet MONEY half of the people who responded, are in the closet! :tongueout


Whoa there Nelly.

I didn't say to "out" yourself. That is your own guilt and shame talking, as you mentioned yourself.

What I said was, "A simple statement that the guy has a right to wear what he wants to wear might have done some good". That's all. This has NOTHING to do with "outing" yourself.

Often we are so consumed with guilt and shame over what we do that we assume EVERYONE around us is just LOOKING for clues to condemn us for what we do. The FACT is that no one gives much of a s**t. And when we witness discrimination of any kind, we are just as guilty as everyone else when we don't speak up.

This is a common theme here. We hear all the time of people worried sick over someone else "suspecting" that we are CDers. Most of the time it's a foolish waste of time.

Yes, construction workers are often inconsiderate boors who tend to have a herd mentality. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt. I built houses in MA for many years. I listened to all this BS myself. But guess what? These "Neanderthals" as you call them are people too and often just need short a reminder that we all need to be tolerant of each other. They go home to family members that are gay and lesbian, other religions, and other races. They may be woried about this themselves. We live in a varied world now.

Just speak up when you hear discrimination. You don't need to get up on your soapbox, just a quiet statement is all that's needed. If no one pays attention, so what? At least you know you said your mind.

Lovies,
Steph

Okay Steph.......

I gotta let you have it.. and it's just my opinion but I am going to take your advise, SIMPLY because you made it abundantly clear that this is our RESPONSIBILITY not choice.

I beg to differ when you say that you "simply stated and that's all" because you didn't. You even referred to someone elses point that was, as I saw as condescending. I.E. Tranny T. (and please excuse me Tranny T if it wasn't intended that way) Isn't not a fellow cd'ers responsibility to change the way the world looks at cd'ers or anyone in the tranny world. It's people who AREN'T. An example, if you see someone getting mistreated that is black....... and another black person runs to the rescue, in a pool of skinheads...... do you think that the other black person is going to make a difference? OF COURSE NOT.
If a white male was to walk up and stand toe to toe with these losers, then they "might" pay a bit of attention. For no other reason but to stop because they then have a witness.

The second part about your posting is that you are assuming an awful lot.. when you say "The FACT is that no one gives much of a s**t. And when we witness discrimination of any kind, we are just as guilty as everyone else when we don't speak up." You don't know what the facts are, you aren't there, or weren't there. When you witness discrimination you are NOT guilty of it if you don't speak up....... that is total crap and nonsense. If you laugh at blond jokes, does that mean you are sexist? I think it is the continuation of devaluing of women.

When a woman gets raped, often I hear the load of bull that people try to push off on her if she doesn't want to prosecute, "if you don't stop him you are responsible for the next woman he rapes" WHAT BOLOGNA! How on earth is being a victim of a crime than make you responsible for the losers actions that hurt you? You survived honey, that is enough. You did your job!

You said yourself, MOST of the time your fears are a foolish waste of time.... MOST! You aren't even convinced of your own thoughts to say .. YOUR FEARS ARE A FOOLISH WASTE OF TIME.......

Last, you said, "These "Neanderthals" as you call them are people too and often just need short a reminder that we all need to be tolerant of each other."

I don't know what kind of construction Lee is in and I know you said you built houses, but I did heavy road and it's much different than carpentry. I know that almost all of us have differences in our families that we have to tolerate. But I know that at MY job sites, not ONE of the guys that I worked with, EVER brought any of them up at work. Heck if a guy had a FAT wife that brought him lunch......... he got teased about that!! Yeah, that innocent ribbing, and it can cause problems.. words hurt peoples feelings.

I am not saying Steph that you are wrong about your idealistic way that you view the world. I think it's great and I wish it was that simple for everyone. I think you have the right idea, and that it's easy to judge others when you aren't there, and you don't have to live with the consequences. All I am saying is that Lee is just beginning her journey and having FELLOW CD'ERS judge you is not the welcoming wagon anyone wants.

Lets remember not to judge others, when we don't want to be judged ourselves. We have a thread that is about dead from all the heated debates on passing and not passing and the hierarchy of the T world........... I think this kinda fits in there. Lee is just as good as anyone else, and needs more TLC because she is just beginning to open up about her journey and I for one think it would be nice to have other "sisters" to talk to about this stuff, instead of feeling judged.

:hugs: and :love:'s,
Kris

Just my opinion, and I could be wrong :tongueout but I doubt it!

:hugs: and :love:'s,

Kris

[Delila]

I didn't say anything good or bad. I felt the need to stick up for the guy but just couldn't do it. I was actually called out for not saying anything because I'm a far bit vocal nomally on most topics. I just kept my head down and read my paper.

I have encountered a similar situation at my work. Being a supervisor i kind of set the rules and i used this to advantage. Any time anyone says anything negative about cding or anything of the sort i make sure and clear up the fact that "while i dont do that there is nothing wrong with anyone that does" in todays politically correct world people take that as its not ok to speak poorly of anyone who is different. This may not work in your situation but if you point out that people really dont want harrassment charges on them they should drop it they usually do.

[noname]

A couple people have asked if I was serious regarding my comment that the gossip crowd never really gets ahead in life.

I stand by my statement, that no they do not. They may climb the local coworker social ladder, but truely get ahead? IMO no. What I've found for myself is that demeanor and word selection is everything. Like a supervisor once told me, "it's all in the presentation". Nothing can beat a professional additude and correct word choice.

For instance, I recently got a covetted position working days instead of the 12 - 14 hour nightshift. I know some of the guys are jealous, and I've heard a few things that have been said. I was approached about it as well. I was asked, "What did you say to the boss to get day shift? You must working days a whole lot?" My responce was, "It's just kind of the way the cards fell, as for dayshift, being home at night is nice, but I also don't get all the overtime so I don't make as much. So like many things in life, there are always trade offs." Who knows, maybe I'm a freeking politician?

So really, you can say pretty much anything. It's all in the presentation.

[Leah B]

YEAH .. and I hope that each one of you that gave her a hard time about this are prancing to work dressed where everyone can see you as well.

I am disappointed in the reaction here.

Kris :thumbsdn:

Not that it really matters, because every workplace is different, but I've done so, off-duty and on Halloween. I'm completely out at work. But again, I don't work construction, I work in a liberal part of town in a liberal city.

And yes, outing yourself could be stupid. Standing up for a fellow being? Ballsy? Risky? Perhaps, but this doesn't out you unless you let it out you. The big risk here is pissing off the alpha male and having him take a hit out on your reputation. I'm not saying that wouldn't be completely awful, but it's not insurmountable.

As for outing yourself to the victim (and the victim only), again, risky, but it might pay off.

I didn't suggest these things JUST because it helps the cause, or because it would help Ms. Thong. Lee's suffering from this too, knowing that his privilege remains only because of circumstance -- Lee knows this could have been him if he only slipped up like that. I think it's in Lee's self interest to try to turn opinions on this.

And really, there are a thousand ways to do so. I'm just saying what's obvious to ME, or what I might do. But there are other, more clever ways to get it done. There are social dynamics here I can't see that may be exploitable. Indirect confrontation, AKA sneakiness, is probably better than open conflict here.

You could talk sh** about the alpha behind his back with people that you know would like to see him brought down as well. Work that network!

[Deborah Jane]

You,ve got to be pretty sure you can handle the "flack" standing up to these guys. Even in the best case scenerio, by taking on the so called "alpha male" you end up having to watch your,e back. These guys may be ignorant tw*ts but they tend to have a lot of other guys who want to keep in with them, they wouldn,t think twice about causing "a little accident", if it made them look good to "alpha". In the worst case, the "big "guy hammers you himself, but makes sure there aren,t "any witnesses". I understand we need to gain acceptance, but in some places we,re going to lose before we start, and winding them up won,t help anyone. Don,t think i,m being defeatist, i just know how these guys minds work..I,ve worked with enough of them over the years!!

[MJ]

A couple people have asked if I was serious regarding my comment that the gossip crowd never really gets ahead in life.
I stand by my statement, that no they do not. They may climb the local coworker social ladder, but truely get ahead? IMO no. What I've found for myself is that demeanor and word selection is everything. Like a supervisor once told me, "it's all in the presentation". Nothing can beat a professional additude and correct word choice.

For instance, I recently got a covetted position working days instead of the 12 - 14 hour nightshift. I know some of the guys are jealous, and I've heard a few things that have been said. I was approached about it as well. I was asked, "What did you say to the boss to get day shift? You must working days a whole lot?" My responce was, "It's just kind of the way the cards fell, as for dayshift, being home at night is nice, but I also don't get all the overtime so I don't make as much. So like many things in life, there are always trade offs." Who knows, maybe I'm a freeking politician?

So really, you can say pretty much anything. It's all in the presentation.

they sure do !!! , the gossip crowd just have to kiss the bosses arse and tell guess what .. and the crap starts to fly
try to transition on the job and see what happens

[Stephenie S]

Hey, didn't anyone read my post? There was nothing in it about confrontation, nothing about going toe to toe with anyone, nothing about intervention.

I just said that often a simple statement like, "The guy has a right to wear what he wants", can go a long way with these guys.

As I said, "been there, done that". I know JUST what construction, heavy and light, is all about. I've done it. I was a working stiff untill I was in my late 40s. And I still socialize with many of these guys.

Lighten up.

Are you upset because I said witnessing discrimination and not acting is wrong? Think this through. Yes, it is wrong. There is NO question about this. Someone talked about skinheads. Of course you don't challange a group of skinheads alone! (duh!) Maybe you could call the cops? Maybe call an ambulance?

We are getting a bit off the topic here, though. The original poster just related an incident he witnessed on the job. It happens a lot. Why? Because there are lots of us in all walks of life.

OK, keeping quiet is one way of living your life. That's everyone's absolute right (just like wearing the thong is that guy's right). I was merely suggesting an alternative to keeping quiet that didn't involve any confrontation at all. A quite, short remark can go a long way.

I certainly did not mean my remarks to be construed as an attack on anyone. For that I apologise. We need to stick together and stick up for each other, here as well as out in the world.

Stephie

[Stephenie S]

YEAH .. and I hope that each one of you that gave her a hard time about this are prancing to work dressed where everyone can see you as well.

I am disappointed in the reaction here.

Kris :thumbsdn:

And Kris, I DO prance to work dressed where everyone can see me. I work and live as Stephenie 24/7. I don't really do that much prancing, though.

But I was NOT trying to give anyone a hard time. Just an alternative.

Lovies,
Stephie

[Jamie001]

Stephanie,

Thank you for this comment. I really believe that "sums is up" and is the right course of action.

:love: Jamie


Whoa there Nelly.

I didn't say to "out" yourself. That is your own guilt and shame talking, as you mentioned yourself.

What I said was, "A simple statement that the guy has a right to wear what he wants to wear might have done some good". That's all. This has NOTHING to do with "outing" yourself.

Often we are so consumed with guilt and shame over what we do that we assume EVERYONE around us is just LOOKING for clues to condemn us for what we do. The FACT is that no one gives much of a s**t. And when we witness discrimination of any kind, we are just as guilty as everyone else when we don't speak up.

This is a common theme here. We hear all the time of people worried sick over someone else "suspecting" that we are CDers. Most of the time it's a foolish waste of time.

Yes, construction workers are often inconsiderate boors who tend to have a herd mentality. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt. I built houses in MA for many years. I listened to all this BS myself. But guess what? These "Neanderthals" as you call them are people too and often just need a short reminder that we all need to be tolerant of each other. They go home to family members that are gay and lesbian, other religions, and other races. They may be woried about this themselves. We live in a varied world now.

Just speak up when you hear discrimination. You don't need to get up on your soapbox, just a quiet statement is all that's needed. If no one pays attention, so what? At least you know you said your mind.

Lovies,
Steph

[Kris]

And Kris, I DO prance to work dressed where everyone can see me. I work and live as Stephenie 24/7. I don't really do that much prancing, though.

But I was NOT trying to give anyone a hard time. Just an alternative.

Lovies,
Stephie

Go Stephanie! I wanna see you prance :heehee:

I understand you didn't mean to but I could see how it would be hurtful is all. Just another way that text can be misconstrued for it's true meaning. Sorry if you felt I jumped on you, I did, and I shouldn't have - but there was another way to see what you wrote and I felt as if Lee needed to know that someone saw her frustration with the people at her work.

:hugs: and :love:'s,
Kris

[Stephenie S]

OK, Kris. Thanks.

Prance? Hmmm. When?

Stephie

[trannie T]

What a load of fertilizer!

If we defend sombody we are not outing ourselves. You do not have to say "I liked his panties, I have a pair just like them." Rather say that he should be able to wear whatever he wishes.
If we allow prejudice and discrimination to go unchallenged we deserve to be victims of discrimination and prejudice. If you do not stand up for your rights who do you expect to stand up for them?

[Jamie001]

I think that an interesting question would be" "Would you defend him if he were being attacked by the herd for being a minority (for example black or Chinese?

Several years ago, I was in a management position in mid-sized computer company and I didn't tolerate any bigotry against any employee for any reason. I believe that this is the same type of situation.

:2c: Jamie


What a load of fertilizer!

If we defend sombody we are not outing ourselves. You do not have to say "I liked his panties, I have a pair just like them." Rather say that he should be able to wear whatever he wishes.
If we allow prejudice and discrimination to go unchallenged we deserve to be victims of discrimination and prejudice. If you do not stand up for your rights who do you expect to stand up for them?

[Lee Andrews]

What everrr! Tranny T
Is that how they say it on the west coast?
You were not there. How is it you can judge the position I was in?
Should I have said something. Damn right I should have BUT I was scared at that moment in time. Looking back it's easy to say, I could have said something, no big deal, maybe, maybe not. Sitting on a computer somewhere on the internet and judging others is also pretty easy. Sorry I'm not perfect.

Jamie001 "I think that an interesting question would be" "Would you defend him if he were being attacked by the herd for being a minority (for example black or Chinese?"

I have done that at work and in my personal life.

Have you ever told a childhood friend to take a walk and never show their face again because he blames every minority in the country for his f**ked up life. Was the black guy he got into a fight with the reason he went to jail. No HE was drunk and He started it. Is it the East Indian guy to blame cause he get up in the morning to drive a big rig and you couldn't be bothered, so he's take'n all the jobs from white folks.
Guess what? I did, because I couldn't stand listening to it anymore and I told him so. It was one of the hardest things I've had to do.

In my original post I said "I sat at the lunch table with the knowledge these guys are never going to accept a different way of life." and I stick by that. There a time and a place for everything and that wasn't one of them.

I think I'll go read the post on Panties or Thongs at least no one gets attacked for liking one or the other........:drink:

[trannie T]

"There is a time and a place for everthing."
Including prejudice and bigotry?

[Kris]

What everrr!
Is that how they say it on the west coast?

I think I'll go read the post on Panties or Thongs at least no one gets attacked for liking one or the other........:drink:

Yes Lee it is how we say it on the West Coast...

I was talking to a friend in Texas and she upset me a bit and I said ..
WHAT EVERRRRRRRR to her and did the 'W' sign with my hands.. and she CALLED me on it.

I felt an inch tall. So you hit the nail on the head my friend.

Sorry to get off topic but I had to add some humor into this. It's getting entirely too serious.

:hugs: Kris

[Christine1826]

I wear panties to work everyday, and even some lacey ones. I work in construction and I dont care what anyone thinks anymore. I dont dress for them, I dress for me.

[nataliecd77]

I have a long time friend of mine, works for the same company I do, as a diesel equipemtn mechanic. He knows I cd and that I am bi. His opinion on it is so long as it doesn't involve him it doesn't concern him.
He has an employee in his shop who paints his toenails and it is a widely known fact. ONe afternoon this guy asked my buddy who we'll call Joe. " Joe what would you do if I wore a dress to work?" Now this guy is not what you'd call a stellar performer. Joe told him " so long as you do your job in a dress I don't give rat's *&#@ what you wear!!" The guys asked Joe" It wouldn't freak you out? or anything like that?" Joe laughed and said "man you have no idea what it would take to freak me out, let me say I've seen more than you'd believe!". Now everyone discussed this guys toenails for a month or so, soime laughs some snickers, some "that's a strange due!", but after awhile no one cared so long as he does his job well!

Did I immediately jump up to defend him....NOPE not at all!!!!!!!!!!!! He's a man doing a masculine type job......occasionally you have to stand your ground by yourself in that environment! If you can't stand and fight your own fights you'll never make it...If you can and do, everyone will let things pass and judge you on your work not your clothes! Would it have helped him for me to defend him? Nope. Would it have brought me into the line of fire, betcha. No worries ...no hamr.. no foul!
Natalie

[unclejoann]

In my office the other day one of the Admin Assistants asked me if one of the other engineers was gay. I told her that I didn't think so, why? She said she wondered because of the clothes he wears. If he were gay it would be ok to wear clothes like that, but if he is straight it is definitely not ok. It really bothered her.

I never noticed anything special about his clothes, they don't look that much different than my drab. Anyway, I told the gossiping Admins that I didn't understand what different it made, unless they had the hots for him.

I didn't tell them that my nails were painted and my panties were pink. I think I supported him without outing myself.

[Jamie001]

You should have asked if the admin wears any "masculine clothing" and used the old "double standard" defense. You should have also explained that Eddie Izzard and Rudy Guliani are not gay and they wear women's clothing.


In my office the other day one of the Admin Assistants asked me if one of the other engineers was gay. I told her that I didn't think so, why? She said she wondered because of the clothes he wears. If he were gay it would be ok to wear clothes like that, but if he is straight it is definitely not ok. It really bothered her.

I never noticed anything special about his clothes, they don't look that much different than my drab. Anyway, I told the gossiping Admins that I didn't understand what different it made, unless they had the hots for him.

I didn't tell them that my nails were painted and my panties were pink. I think I supported him without outing myself.

[rachael devry]

i know there are a lot of us who maybe been unknowingly been caught. but is it wrong is there a reason that we keep gettig condemmed over and over again. my shorts ripped one time and everytime my shirt rode up my red panties showed at first i would quickly pull my shirt down after a while i couldn't be bothered. i never heard anything about it not that it would have mattered. keep the faith, rachael

[Cindi Ann Kelly]

My shirt slid up one day while wearing black lacy panties.
I was busted! Life got very interesting, but I survived.

Cindi ann

[crusadergirl]

I don't blame lee for not standing up for this guy, he should be wearing that stuff at work anyways if he don't want to be caught.
I don't know what the right answer for any of you on this one.
It is easy to say you will stand up for him when your just siting here using a keyboard. But if you were in person most of you would do nothin then still complain about why no one would do anything about it. But one thing if you do nothing what will change nothin at all. Jobs come and go so defending someone and losing my job isn't going to mess my life up. Party on

[lynn27]

Lee, One thing I would have done is to approach the poor guy and let him know about what is being said. Letting him know what you know so he can react in an informed manner would have been my approach.:2c:

Facing down a mob, speaking out to support the poor guy, or somehow outing yourself is not wise and you did the right thing not going there. Even walking off in disgust could be taken as a sign you are with the guy and would wrap you right into the gossip. Changing the subject in a good move, I've worked construction among the herd and you cannot control them only guide them. Even when I was their boss at times I really have little control.
Thank you Kris, Sarah Rabbit and any others I missed for sticking up for me.

If I was not a CDer I would have said something but because I am that little voice in the back of my head said "Put your head down and don't say anything, someone might figure out a connection!" For all I know, not saying something to defend this STRANGER could have started someone wondering about me because it's out of character for me not to. It was just too close to home for this guy. If it was one of the people in the general contracting company I work for and work with every day then I would have stuck my neck out but not for someone to this day I have never met.

I am just coming to grips with this wonderful thing I'll call my alter ego. I have been trying to figure it out for 30 some odd years, unsuccessfully. Some of you out there know or have come to grips with your dressing and know where and how it is going to fit it into your lives. I am not that blessed, I'm slowly getting there but I have a long way to go. So with all of you out there with all of YOUR confidence in yourselves I bow to your superior state of mind and hope someday to have a big enough set to stand up in front of that crowd and declare "I am a Crossdresser!" and damn it if it screws up my life.:GE:

Lee.


Stephenie, It is hard to say your advise is on the mark this time. Going up against a herd that would make every minute at work a living hell might seem right to you, but being 24/7 puts you in a different realm. You don't have to worry about an outing leading to the loss of your job or even carreer.

In fact anyone that has critized Lee for her course of actions is just wrong, imho. Say what you might have done differently, but don't ridicule someone after the fact. The poor guy had a choice, made a mistake and must deal with his action. There is no reason for Lee jump in front of the herd to save him.


What I said was, "A simple statement that the guy has a right to wear what he wants to wear might have done some good". That's all. This has NOTHING to do with "outing" yourself.

A statement like that would do nothing to redirect the herd and, because you are right there, it could cause them to turn and head right at you.

[lynn27]

Well, that said, I did out myself once. Worked with a builder friend for many years. One day i finished another job early and stopped to see the new street of homes he was working on. Turned out he was pouring a basement floor and was shorthanded [there were three of a five guy crew there]. Now normally I 'dressed' for installing kitchens or finish work like hanging doors and didn't expect to be helping with concrete, but i grabbed a bullfloat and went to work. after an hour or so i noticed the builder and another guy behind me watching. I suddenly sensed that my Tee-shirt had ridden up and because I was bending over the wall my jeans had moved down exposing my pink panties. No hiding them. I stood up, faced them, smiled and fixed myself, turned and went back to work. Nothing said.:p

Never heard anything and I didn't feel a need to explain anything. Of course, within six months i lost this guy's kitchens to someone else.

[Darla in Pa.]

Now if it was boxers with pink pigs they would have wanted to know where they came from! Go figure Darla

[Nicole Erin]

Hi Lee,

I'd be willing to bet that you weren't the only other guy who checked to make sure their panties weren't showing too. :heehee:

Carol


You see all these guys tugging down their shirts as they say with a grimace, "Yeah what's up with Robert and his lacy undies, he is such a fruit... yeah"

So I guess construction is probably the last job one would want to be outed as a CD?

[cindylou_acd]

That's a tough one. I've worn panties and hose too many times to recall but I don't anymore based on fear alone. He should have worn something a little less risque, but you just have to feel for him and keep on moving.

[Kimberly Marie Kelly]

I wear thongs pretty much all the time, depending on size, style and clothes your wearing you will occassionally risk having the t-backs being seen in some situations. I'm sure people have seen mine from time to time, but I don't care anymore. I don't make a habit of showing them off, but if seen so what. I am a crossdresser.

[HalloweenDragon]

I used to work construction, and as a handyman for years. Yes, men are disgusting and vile. Especially those men. I HATE those kind.:Angry3:

I am shocked they didn't mess with him right then. I exposed myself to a co-worker in construction only after he admited he was a little curious about the"other side"" When I showed him my toes were painted sparkly blue, and had a matching thong on, he changed his tone a little. Not suprisingly I was laid off a month later.:sad:

Honestly, I stopped wearing my thong after that for fear someone would call me out on a job site about my CD. Especially when we had to work in the room of a female, and I thought someone might catch me and REALLY start some sick trouble.:eek:

This is a sad world we live in, and it will NEVER change. I am SO VERY HAPPY I found this website and all of you!!!!!!!!!!:D

[PameeSue]

Many times I wore panties or bikini bottoms to work and was often bent over equipment cleaning or fixing stuff. I know a few times the pantie waistband must have shown a little. No-one ever outed me right there and then, but I heard a number of rumours, and several times different people would say that they didnt care what underwear guys would wear to work....(and I would wonder why that should come up in work conversations) With that stated I thought that I had been 'busted'.....maybe I was.
Being competent at my profession, it was never bought to my attention directly, but I know it got to my bosses and much higher up.
I've always been vocal and supportive and tried to show compassion to others who display differences to the "norm"....piercings, tats, hair color etc..
I'm certain that this stance has seen me as being fair, but has also lent something to others who LOVE to gossip.
Instead of trying too hard to be too supportive, I've found that I could just state, in a "guy" way......So What!...Get over it, now can any of you guys please gimme a hand with this?....
Hey, maybe everybody knew about my dressing then, but no-one told me directly....I've often thought that!....y'know, maybe I'm the last one to be told that everyone else knows.

An enemy of my enemy is my friend.......a friend of my enemy......well y'know....
That last line is a bit strong, but the sentiment rings a "dong".

Suzie

[Melora]

Something that came up in my profession in a casino and wanting to be "out there".. And not really wanting to DO IT..
I was once a Casino Security officer, in charge of Drop (taking $$$ out of machines). We had a TS girl working for us. She came OUT I mean REALLY OUT overnight. I felt for her and her problems about 7 yrs ago, but I COULD not say anything about it, at the time.. She created such a hassel whithin the company.. IE = Her own locker room and problems with sexual jokes and inuendoes as well as the legal possibilities.. . = Quite a hastle for the company.. Later SHE was forced out to a better life I hope.. My question is how can a company actually deal with one such as her or one of us, IF we wanted to live life on the other side?? Quite a weird and tragic thing for the weastern corporate world for sure, and a question that has lots of answers, but what are your thoughts??

[Anna the Dub]

Are there no laws in the US that protect people? In my company, we recently had a new 'Dignity at work' pamphlet distributed. In it, it stated that 'no employee, or interviewee, will be discriminated against on the grounds of gender, race, religion, marital status, sexual orientation, sex change (think they added that one because of me :happy:), alternative lifestyle'. There were a few more but I can't remember them all. It pretty much covered anyone. And if any one did discriminate, then the disciplinary procedures would be implemented. This is pretty much standard fare in the UK, does it not happen in the US? I only ask, because everyone on here seems to think that you have to put up with discrimination or ridicule at work, and I just wondered are there any anti discrimination laws in the US.

[Fab Karen]

Anna, in the U.S. there is anti-discrimination law covering basically: gender, race, religion ( possibly), & marital status. sexual orientation isn't covered, and TS's have to battle sometimes with an employer.

As for the original post, those guys speaking loudest about how wierd the guy is, are the ones going online trying to hook up with T-girls for a quickie.
"the more he talked of his honesty, the more we counted our spoons" - Emerson

[mylilsecret8]

My shirt slid up one day while wearing black lacy panties.
I was busted! Life got very interesting, but I survived.

Cindi ann

I used to live in fear that my panties would show and someone would see. Now, I rarely care if someone notices i;m wearing lacy panties and openly change at the gym and no one has done more than maybe a slight snicker or whisper. I even wore panties in the hospital under my hospital gown (the kind where the back ties at the neck but don't cover very good) when I had knee surgury last year. I'm sure the nurses and Dr.s saw and I really don't worry about it and find it kind of liberating.

And if you ever wear low rise womens pants, you can't really bend over without your panties showing which I think is kinda sexy!

[JoAnnDallas]

At a different job, one of the workers decided to inform Management that he was GAY. Management turned around and published a memo, stating that you may heard one of our employes is GAY. Management has no problem with this issue and we expect all employes to use good candar with this issure.

Needless to say, we all knew who it was, but with the memo, no one said a word to this person. Most just went back to their normal routine. Even his co-workers went back their normal routine.

Issues like this at a office can be handled in a way that defuses the issue from the start. If you company has anti-discrimination policy that includes TG issues, you be assured that they will act acordingly.

I checked my compaines policy and it does include "Gender and Gender Presintation". So I sure that covers TG issues.