Family Problems

[DebsD]

How do people cope with losing their marriage?

I have been married 16 years and my so has known about the dressing from the start, i am at the start of the long road to transition but she says she can`t be with me if i go ahead!! V confused but i must trans otherwise i will lose my mind, she also doesn`t want my young sons to know, impossible as only way for them not to know is to disappear!! I love them too much for that, i do have an escape plan on offer to me, my mother lives in spain and has said i can go there while i transition, bet i can`t get anything done on the nhs there though!!!
Do i hurt my boys more by staying or going, very hard decision, but i need to transition, of that i am 100% sure. Where do i tell them i am if my so won`t let me tell the truth!!

Debs

[Holly]

Hon, sometimes we have to make tough decisions. It is not always possible to make everyone (including yourself) happy. What's most important to you? What is in the best interests of those you love (including yourself)? Some heartfelt searching to the answers to these questions will reveal the path best for you. Best wishes.

[SirTrey]

Hi Deb....That's the thing about this....So difficult to make it all come together between family issues and balancing that with the need to transition....Maybe a little time for your S/O to get more used to the idea? I know you said that she has known about the dressing, but you didn't say how long she has known about the fact that you want/need to transition...That can be quite a blow to a S/O and sometimes they can't handle it at all, but others, it takes a little time for them to adjust to the idea....I have three kids Myself...and am going through transition, as well, but the opposite way (ftm)...I am taking it slow so that My kids (all adults now, but still My kids) get used to it a step at a time.....but....ultimately, it is something that only you can decide...If you do decide to, there really is no way that you CAN keep it from your kids....Over time, your S/O will have to accept that....You are still their other parent....I wish you the best of luck, dear....:hugs: **Trey**

[geri]

deb,
i can relate to your ordeal. my so doesn't care or want to accept my transitioning. it will not be long before she hits the road. i love my so but i love this lady more so something has to give.
just keep your chin up so it won't hit your breasts.

hugs,
geri danielle

[Sharon]

This happens so often when transitioning occurs and it's always so sad. It is my feeling that children are better off not losing contact with a parent, no matter what, and your soon to be ex-wife has only one vote on the matter, just as you do. You don't say how old your young sons are, but if they are that young, it will be so much easier for them to accept you as you are, then they will be as they grow older and you are more of a stranger to them. Because your wife isn't able to accept this, she probably feels that the children won't either, or at least they shouldn't. But that thinking is just wrong. Delaying their exposure to you will only make it tougher in the future if and when you decide it's time.

Good luck! :hugs:

[helenr]

what a dilemma. Every situation is so different. I don't recommend anyone follow my path, but I want to save my marriage, if I can. I believe many wives have their own 'agenda' and may be planning -to use the popular phase today- an 'exit strategy' on their own! So, a transgendered person may be in the dark about what the future holds in many respects.
For me, taking Spirolactone has been very effective. For me, the fetish component of transvestism had crowded into a transgendered mindset. I would love to be an attractive female and all that goes with this, but that is not my reality. You are young so it may be very different. I guess I would have to side with the opinion that saving your marriage, keeping your relationship with your sons is of higher importance . If sex is not a part of your marriage at this point, and you don't plan on additional children, spiro might be helpful in calming everything down and helping you cope. As this 'condition' never goes away (I am nearly 61) you will have lots of time later on when the boys are grown to pursue changes. not a great solution, but maybe the most practical. good luck! helen

[Vivian Best]

This happens so often when transitioning occurs and it's always so sad. It is my feeling that children are better off not losing contact with a parent, no matter what, and your soon to be ex-wife has only one vote on the matter, just as you do. You don't say how old your young sons are, but if they are that young, it will be so much easier for them to accept you as you are, then they will be as they grow older and you are more of a stranger to them. Because your wife isn't able to accept this, she probably feels that the children won't either, or at least they shouldn't. But that thinking is just wrong. Delaying their exposure to you will only make it tougher in the future if and when you decide it's time.

Good luck! :hugs:

Hi Deb,

I agree 100% with what Sharon says in her statements above. If you make the decision to go ahead and transition, the children will be much more able to accept transition the younger they are. You must consider the mother's influence on them if she has custody of them. If she won't accept you she might influence them against you. May you make the right decision in your family.

[Rita B]

Thank God I am past the age where transition could be an issue. I do not envy you the dilemma. If the need to transition is as strong as you say it is, then I would think that you have to go through with it. It could not be any more painful for your family than seeing you depressed and unhappy all the time,

[Stephenie S]

How do people cope with losing their marriage?

I have been married 16 years and my so has known about the dressing from the start, i am at the start of the long road to transition but she says she can`t be with me if i go ahead!! V confused but i must trans otherwise i will lose my mind, she also doesn`t want my young sons to know, impossible as only way for them not to know is to disappear!! I love them too much for that, i do have an escape plan on offer to me, my mother lives in spain and has said i can go there while i transition, bet i can`t get anything done on the nhs there though!!!
Do i hurt my boys more by staying or going, very hard decision, but i need to transition, of that i am 100% sure. Where do i tell them i am if my so won`t let me tell the truth!!

Debs

While this is a personal tradgedy for you (and your wife), it is not very reasonable to expect your wife to stay married to a woman. She married a man. She wants a husband. You are effectively murdering the man she loved and expected to grow old with. Murdering the father of her children. The marriages that survive this traumatic event are few and far between.

I feel for you hon. I am going through the exact same thing, as are many of us. We have had a lifetime to get used to this, and to us, we are no different. We are the same person we have always been. Why, oh why, can't our spouses see that? Well, for them it's a different situation. They are loosing their husbands. They are loosing their future. All of their hopes and dreams are GONE. Where is that wonderfull retirement with grandchildren playing at their knee? Up in smoke. Suddenly here we come, expecting them to begin a new life in a lesbian relationship. Or a sisterly relationship. Or whatever. It's NOT what they wanted. It's NOT what they signed on for. And for most of them, it's not what they are going to put up with.

This is a harsh reality for us, but it's reality, none the less. If your marriage survives, you are indeed fortunate. I do not know how mine will. I know with ALL my heart and soul that my relationship with my wife is the most important relationship in my life. And yet, how can I expect her to cope with the loss of her husband and ALL her dreams and expectations? It's not an easy thing we are asking of them, is it?

Lovies,
Stephenie

[Sejd]

Well said Stephenie
That's exactly the harsh truth to this reality for all of us. But we are only doomed to despair if we hold on to the illusions and the dreams shattered. If we look at the now, we may see a beautiful new woman living her new life with joy.
hugs :hugs:
Sejd

[helenr]

I so agree with Stephanie's comments. Spiro is no magic elixir, but it might just calm matters down to allow continuing to live externally as a male to save the family situation. Worth trying. I don't think most wives are that upset about hidden crossdressing-lingerie,etc-just the thought of the embarassment of an apparent 'lesbian' relationship, for want of a better term is too much for most. There are rare women out there-some at this forum seem to be married to them-who will work with virtually any changes a TS desires, but they are so rare as to be statistically non existent, in my view. Maybe it's sexist, that daughters can better cope with Dad becoming a she, but I don't think it is ever possible for a boy. isn't it cruel how we become afflicted by this mental focus. hugs, helenr

[Maggie Kay]

I am in a similar situation but I do not ascribe to the notion that I am murdering a husband or destroying the dreams of my wife. These imply choice and an agenda but I have none. I am reacting to an internal force which is not in my control. If I could, for my wife's sake, change and stop this progression towards full womanhood, I would. I love her dearly and to see what pain this condition has caused her and my adult daughter is more than I can bear. I'm not getting out of this and in today's harsh world, we all have difficult burdens to live with. My wife realizes that to split up is a temptation but in the reality of life apart, this is much better. Is it so easy today to find a new mate? Can one just walk away with all parties safe and financially secure? She realizes that she has lost her husband but not her best friend. She still wants me to be OK. We are now trying to give each other space to re-develop a relationship based on different things. In truth, it shares some of the characteristics of other medical trauma where one partner can no longer be what they were. She has Vaginismus, a condition that does not allow vaginal intercourse, should I have left her years ago when that happened? I didn't and now it is her turn to accept a difficult situation. The marriage vows say "for better, for worse" I am still married and just because my gender is in transition, what God put together is not coming apart. We were never promised a perfect life without conflict or tragedy.

[Stephenie S]

I am in a similar situation but I do not ascribe to the notion that I am murdering a husband or destroying the dreams of my wife. These imply choice and an agenda but I have none. I am reacting to an internal force which is not in my control. If I could, for my wife's sake, change and stop this progression towards full womanhood, I would. I love her dearly and to see what pain this condition has caused her and my adult daughter is more than I can bear. I'm not getting out of this and in today's harsh world, we all have difficult burdens to live with. My wife realizes that to split up is a temptation but in the reality of life apart, this is much better. Is it so easy today to find a new mate? Can one just walk away with all parties safe and financially secure? She realizes that she has lost her husband but not her best friend. She still wants me to be OK. We are now trying to give each other space to re-develop a relationship based on different things. In truth, it shares some of the characteristics of other medical trauma where one partner can no longer be what they were. She has Vaginismus, a condition that does not allow vaginal intercourse, should I have left her years ago when that happened? I didn't and now it is her turn to accept a difficult situation. The marriage vows say "for better, for worse" I am still married and just because my gender is in transition, what God put together is not coming apart. We were never promised a perfect life without conflict or tragedy.

Well dear, I used the word murder for it's emotional effect and I seem to have elicited some emotion from you. You may not agree with the term "murder", but in fact, that's just what you are doing. The term does NOT imply choice or agenda. None of us feel that we are CHOOSING to transition. As I have said before, those of us that actually DO this, do this because we HAVE to, not because we WANT to. None of us feels much of a choice in the matter. If it were merely my CHOICE, I would stop it in a heartbeat.

Now perhaps you would rather not use the term murder. It does carry a fairly brutal connotation which, of course, we don't really feel. But from your wife's point of view, her husband is gone. GONE. And who did this to him? You did, hon. You did. The person she loves more than life itself. Can you understand the dilemma she is in? Of course she loves you. But she is probably angrier with you than she has ever been with anyone ever in her life. In her mind, or at least in her emotions, this is YOUR fault. She didn't do anything wrong. Asking her to just suck it up because you didn't leave her when she could no longer provide an outlet for your sexual apetite seems a bit unfair.

Now you are absolutely right when you say marrige is for better and for worse, but I stand by my statement that those marriages that can survive this trauma are few and far between. Will yours survive? I doubt it. Will mine? I doubt that also. I do know that I will do everything within my power to see that it does, and I can see that you and your wife intend to do the same. My point is only that it's a VERY, VERY, difficult situation we are asking our wives to accept here. The likelyhood of sucess is slim indeed and is no place for platitudes, only the grim reality of truth.

Respectfully,
Stephenie

[Maggie Kay]

Stephanie,
Relating to this medical condition as to the equivalent of a crime is not appropriate. There is enough guilt and shame associated with the condition as it is. I did not demand that my wife accept. I prayed that she would be able to see through the issues to find a way to stay. She seems to have done this. I really don't think you were assuming that I went to her one day and said, "I stayed so you have to too" . My point is that after countless hours of discussion we have begun to see that there is a foundation deeper and more secure than we thought. This is our second marriage for us both and we know what it is like to get divorced. One doesn't just up an leave without life changing consequences. I am still recovering from the wounds from that divorce twenty one years ago. Instead, we know that there is no perfect mate and there is no guaranteed life without trauma. We are in our late fifties and have learned some really important life lessons. One is that the world is very difficult and family is all we have to survive. Going it alone is much much harder than living with a transgender spouse. Too much of our society is based on "throw away" people. It justifies all sorts of hurt. Not in my book.

I can see from your words that you are hurting from the condition and what it has done to your marriage. I feel for you and have felt as bad or worse many many times. I may be there again. However, answering Deb's query this way gives her no hope and as dim as it is, there is hope. Better to look for that instead of increasing the pain.

[Stephenie S]

Stephanie,
Relating to this medical condition as to the equivalent of a crime is not appropriate. There is enough guilt and shame associated with the condition as it is. I did not demand that my wife accept. I prayed that she would be able to see through the issues to find a way to stay. She seems to have done this. I really don't think you were assuming that I went to her one day and said, "I stayed so you have to too" . My point is that after countless hours of discussion we have begun to see that there is a foundation deeper and more secure than we thought. This is our second marriage for us both and we know what it is like to get divorced. One doesn't just up an leave without life changing consequences. I am still recovering from the wounds from that divorce twenty one years ago. Instead, we know that there is no perfect mate and there is no guaranteed life without trauma. We are in our late fifties and have learned some really important life lessons. One is that the world is very difficult and family is all we have to survive. Going it alone is much much harder than living with a transgender spouse. Too much of our society is based on "throw away" people. It justifies all sorts of hurt. Not in my book.

I can see from your words that you are hurting from the condition and what it has done to your marriage. I feel for you and have felt as bad or worse many many times. I may be there again. However, answering Deb's query this way gives her no hope and as dim as it is, there is hope. Better to look for that instead of increasing the pain.

Just a couple of thoughts here. "Going it alone is much harder than living with a transgendered spouse", is true for YOU, but may turn out to be untrue for your wife. Most women have difficulty with this.

While it is true that I am hurting from this situation, I am not hurting anywhere near as badly as my wife is. She (as your wife is too) is the one who is loosing. You and I get to keep our wives. You and I get to maintain the life we are used to. It's the women who get the short end of the stick here. They are (I repeat) loosing their husbands and the father of their children. It's not easy. I think that's my only point here. It's not easy. VERY few marriages survive. If yours does, you have an exceptional marriage. I know of only one or two that have, and they are both on shakey ground. Is it possible? I certainly hope so. I am trying, and as I said, I can see you are also. Reality is against us, though, that's all I'm saying.

Stephie

[Maggie Kay]

Just a couple of thoughts here. "Going it alone is much harder than living with a transgendered spouse", is true for YOU, but may turn out to be untrue for your wife. Most women have difficulty with this.

While it is true that I am hurting from this situation, I am not hurting anywhere near as badly as my wife is. She (as your wife is too) is the one who is loosing. You and I get to keep our wives. You and I get to maintain the life we are used to. It's the women who get the short end of the stick here. They are (I repeat) loosing their husbands and the father of their children.

Stephie

Just to clarify, I was referring to my wife in that statement. She has enormous difficulty dealing with my condition but realized that leaving solves little and creates huge problems of it's own.

Actually, we both lose a lot. I lose the world that I used to know too. I can't go play golf now. In a random foursome, with a TG person it won't go well. Many of my Internet friends must be kept at a distance as when they find out that I am actually female, they will probably abandon me. I dare not get close to my neighbors as they might be TG hostile and cause trouble for me or my family. I can't go to places that were common to males before without major considerations. Just think now about taking a car in for service, or going to the auto parts store or dozens of situations where as a male, it is just communication of the problem at hand but now, it is disrespect, doubt and disdain. How about when my wife and I walk through the mall and she gets flirted with and I am ignored as the unfortunate looking girlfriend. No one ever dared to flirt with her when I was a male walking beside her.
Do I find that she is the only loser? No way. At best, transition gives some inner peace but it will never be for me that I lived my life as a woman. I can look forward to a life as a crone and treated as such by a chauvinistic male dominated society.

In sum, this condition is excruciatingly difficult for everyone and in spite of the selfish connotations of TG people, I have mixed feelings about getting it "my way" That is like saying that talking a medication for an illness is a selfish act.

[Stephenie S]

No hon. Your fears are a vast exageration.

All the disadvantages you site are imaginagtions of a fearful mind. I am speaking from experience here, dear. You will be able to maitain your life with impunity. The auto parts store sells parts to women just as quickly and professionally as they do to men. They still let women on the golf course. Talk to your neighbors, you will find them friendly and accepting. Taking your car in to be serviced is no problem. If your mechanic cheats women as a matter of course, he's not a good mechanic for male or female. Friends will stand by you. Those who reject you for this are not real friends at all. To be specific in my case, I have not lost a single friend ot relative. And flirting? Better get used to it. It's a fact of life for almost anything in a skirt.

Will you be uncomfortable hanging out with the guys in guys only haunts? Yup. But honey, didn't you want to be a woman? Now you get to hang with the girls. That just comes with the territory. You don't get it both ways. Lamenting the loss of your guy priviledge seems unfair at this time.

Sweety, life goes on. I am living it. You will too. The one who has LOST is my wife (and yours). HER life is different. Her dreams of a comfortable future with her husband at her side are gone forever. She is still at your side. No matter how you twist this, it doesn't work out to an equitable trade off.

I'm sorry, you just haven't convinced me that you are loosing anywhere near what your wife has lost. I guess I haven't convinced you either, so perhaps we need to get off this thread before they shut us down for hijacking it. I will be happy to correspond with you in PM if you would like to continue this discussion.

Stephie

[Maggie Kay]

I agree, enough said. Let's move on.

[Cara Allen]

While this is a personal tradgedy for you (and your wife), it is not very reasonable to expect your wife to stay married to a woman. She married a man. She wants a husband. You are effectively murdering the man she loved and expected to grow old with. Murdering the father of her children. The marriages that survive this traumatic event are few and far between.

I feel for you hon. I am going through the exact same thing, as are many of us. We have had a lifetime to get used to this, and to us, we are no different. We are the same person we have always been. Why, oh why, can't our spouses see that? Well, for them it's a different situation. They are loosing their husbands. They are loosing their future. All of their hopes and dreams are GONE. Where is that wonderfull retirement with grandchildren playing at their knee? Up in smoke. Suddenly here we come, expecting them to begin a new life in a lesbian relationship. Or a sisterly relationship. Or whatever. It's NOT what they wanted. It's NOT what they signed on for. And for most of them, it's not what they are going to put up with.

This is a harsh reality for us, but it's reality, none the less. If your marriage survives, you are indeed fortunate. I do not know how mine will. I know with ALL my heart and soul that my relationship with my wife is the most important relationship in my life. And yet, how can I expect her to cope with the loss of her husband and ALL her dreams and expectations? It's not an easy thing we are asking of them, is it?

Lovies,
Stephenie


Puleeze.

When you married, you married for better or worse, richer or poorer, till death.
If you had come down with Multiple Sclerosis (a member of my family has it,) she would stay by your side because that is what good people do. The fact that she didn't marry you when you were ill would have no impact on that, unless she was an uncaring distant person. If you were struck down by lightning, she would nurture you back to health. If you were disfigured by fire, she would do her very best to help you, and stand up for you, and help you deal with it. You would do the same for her, or you don't deserve her.

We are born this way. We made no choices. We did everything we could do to be something else for her and for society, but it didn't work. So... who is the guilty party here? There is none. Feeling guilt when you are a good person is not only a waste of time, it is emotionally unhealthy.

Sit around, if you like, and hate what you are. Mope about what ills you have brought down on everyone... or... maybe the best option it to be happy? If people truly love you, they want you happy and well. It may be that she cannot maintain a contract with you to stay married, but does she write you off as someone who is now unimportant to her? Can she do that to someone she truly cares about?

If you had died in a car accident, she would never, ever be able to talk to you again. She is afraid that you will be different. She is afraid that she will loose you. She is afraid of her future. Fear comes from resisting change. From what is not known, like being in a dark room.

You can stumble around and hate being in the dark, or you can turn on a light. It is all a choice thing.

I have the feeling that wives are not going to like this, but they make a choice, every moment to accept or resist. Keep an open mind, or go with an unfounded emotion. They have a choice. We don't. I am sorry, but this is not a choice thing. You can choose to keep your job, or change it. Vote Republican or Democrat. Break the law, or obey it. But you cannot deny transgenderism, or that is is not choice.

It would be like your expecting her to dress like a man and try to pass, for the rest of her life. She wouldn't do it, but you are expected to dress the way she wants you to, and to pretend to be someone other than who you are, for the rest of yours.

There is a balance here, and the only thing that I am sure of is that guilt is not the pivot point.

[Stephenie S]

Dear Cara,

Gosh hon, we don't disagree. Lighten up. This is just a discusion. I was trying (sucessfully I guess) to open a bit of dialog on the difficulty of the situation for our wives.

Transition, MS, disfiguring fire, are all traumatic events that put a terrific strain on our marriages. The difference here, and it is a real one, is that all those tragic occurances can be imagined by our wives. To "stand by your man", for better or for worse, is a socially acceptable, laudable action. Standing by your "woman", is not so easy, and certainly not as socially acceptable.

Of course we have no choice. All of us who are actually DOING this are well aware of that. And therin lies the rub. How can she be angry at me for doing something about which I have no choice? How can she be angry at me for wanting to be me? How can she deny the obvious joy she can see in my heart at finally being free? And yet she IS angry. Not all the time. Not even most of the time. But it's there. And the anger stems from loss. Loss of her future, loss of her dreams, loss of her romantic view of a retirement of beaches and cruises with her handsome HUSBAND at her side.

To get personal, rather than to generalize, my wife is mortified to be seen out in public presenting to the world as a lesbian. Is this a noble sentiment? Probably not. It reeks of homophobia. None the less it's a reality for her. When we married, she most emphatically did NOT marry a woman. She did not want to marry a woman, and if she had known I was a woman, she would not have married me. If I had told her I might get MS, I think she would have married me anyway. But if I had told her I was really a woman, I think it would have ended any thoughts of marriage.

I DO know about difficulty in marriage. My first wife developed MS after she remarried. We (my ex and I) are still close and we see each other fairly often. Her husband has stuck by her. He is the sole caregiver for someone who demands TOTAL care. Is it easy? No way. Is it what he signed on for? No way. But I suspect that if she were transitioning into a man rather than suffering from MS, it would be a bit harder for him.

I am doing all I can to maintain my marrige. If I have a goal in life at this time it is to stay married. But glib statements about "for better or for worse", do nothing to ease the task of adjusting to being married to a woman, for my wife or for yours.

My only point in ALL of this is to reiterate the difficulty for our wives. It is not easy. It is not ANYWHERE near as easy as it is for us. And I am well aware that it's not that easy for us at all. What we are asking of them is perhaps far more difficult than we at first suspect, and certainly just as difficult, if not more so, than what we are going through ouselves.

If your marriage survives, if my marriage survives, we will have exceptional marriages. It's a goal to work hard for.

Lovies,
Stephenie

[melissaK]

How we wish it worked:


Happy ever after in the market place
Desmond lets the children lend a hand
Molly stays at home and does her pretty face
And in the evening she's a singer with the band.

Chorus

In a couple of years they have built
A home sweet home
With a couple of kids running in the yard
Of Desmond and Molly Jones.

Happy ever after in the market place
Molly lets the children lend a hand
Desmond stays at home and does his pretty face
And in the evening she's a singer with the band.

And if you want some fun - take Obladiblada.
Obladi Oblada
(Beatles, of course)

How it too often goes:


She's leavin' in the morning sing a sad song for me
Keeping me in the dark don't know how long it will be
But I've heard that tune before she says she's gotta be free
But I know that's not true and that's what's bothering me
(Clint Black)

or it goes even worse:


But she's leaving me
Because she really wants to
And she'll be happy when she's gone
She'll be happy
She'll be so very happy
She'll dance and sing
Or even learn to fly
And spend her time with anyone but me
(Lyle Lovett)

So, here's hoping for a Beatles ending for us all
hugs,
'lissa

PS Anyone actually ever asked the pharmacist for some Obladiblada? I mean what have we got to lose? ;-)

[Stephenie S]

Yaaaay!

[Cara Allen]

Dear Cara,

Gosh hon, we don't disagree. Lighten up. This is just a discusion. I was trying (sucessfully I guess) to open a bit of dialog on the difficulty of the situation for our wives.

Transition, MS, disfiguring fire, are all traumatic events that put a terrific strain on our marriages. The difference here, and it is a real one, is that all those tragic occurances can be imagined by our wives. To "stand by your man", for better or for worse, is a socially acceptable, laudable action. Standing by your "woman", is not so easy, and certainly not as socially acceptable.

When my brother in law came down quadroplegic, it was instantaneous. One day, he was walking, the next, he was helpless. When this happened, I was shocked. I had some real personal issues about it. I couldn't look him in the eye. I was ashamed for him. I was also concerned that I might catch what he had. I was not the only one that had these issues too. But, when the shock wore off, we got around, under, over it and made it through to be supportive in ways that made his life better.

To continue to use the unnaturalness of a situation as a club, a crutch... or to use someones guilt as a way to control them is dispicable. I am not taking about your wife, or any of the others, for that matter. However, when you use something like this and try to control another through guilt, that is base and wrong.

When I hear some of the others talking about how their wives resist it, hate it, won't tolerate it, I wonder it the TG wouldn't be better off starting over? Life is a rare opportunity. We don't know that there is ever a second chance to do this thing right. Even if we do, the time we have here can seem like a prison sentence if we are not allowed to grow and be happy



Of course we have no choice. All of us who are actually DOING this are well aware of that. And therin lies the rub. How can she be angry at me for doing something about which I have no choice? How can she be angry at me for wanting to be me? How can she deny the obvious joy she can see in my heart at finally being free? And yet she IS angry. Not all the time. Not even most of the time. But it's there. And the anger stems from loss. Loss of her future, loss of her dreams, loss of her romantic view of a retirement of beaches and cruises with her handsome HUSBAND at her side.
To get personal, rather than to generalize, my wife is mortified to be seen out in public presenting to the world as a lesbian. Is this a noble sentiment? Probably not. It reeks of homophobia. None the less it's a reality for her. When we married, she most emphatically did NOT marry a woman. She did not want to marry a woman, and if she had known I was a woman, she would not have married me. If I had told her I might get MS, I think she would have married me anyway. But if I had told her I was really a woman, I think it would have ended any thoughts of marriage. .

Why is she angry again? How old are you two? Why would she be perceived as a lesbian, unless the two of you were making out on the corner? As you get older, the sexual aspects become less and less important. People of the same sex live together all the time. Anyway, if she lives her live wanting to control what other people think, or trying to prevent being judged, other people decide what your life is, you don't.


My only point in ALL of this is to reiterate the difficulty for our wives. It is not easy. It is not ANYWHERE near as easy as it is for us. And I am well aware that it's not that easy for us at all. What we are asking of them is perhaps far more difficult than we at first suspect, and certainly just as difficult, if not more so, than what we are going through ouselves.

Well, hate society for the unrealistic conditions they place on you as an individual. Hate the bigots that will crucify you, if they had the chance. Make changes in how we are perceived and accepted. Don't hate your husband for these pressures. He has been carrying the weight of them for years. If you love him, then help him. Don't make him an object of condemnation. He gets that already.

IF you're not strong enough to help or stand up, then what happened to your love? Transgenderism will not go away. Be grateful that your spouse will love you even more with acceptance. He will resent you if you shame him. Human nature.

[Stephenie S]

When my brother in law came down quadroplegic, it was instantaneous. One day, he was walking, the next, he was helpless. When this happened, I was shocked. I had some real personal issues about it. I couldn't look him in the eye. I was ashamed for him. I was also concerned that I might catch what he had. I was not the only one that had these issues too. But, when the shock wore off, we got around, under, over it and made it through to be supportive in ways that made his life better.

And, hopefully, this will be what happens in our mariage. I have had almost 60 years to get used to this. Although she knew from the beginning, she did not internalize it (she thought it would just "go away"), and has had barely 2.

To continue to use the unnaturalness of a situation as a club, a crutch... or to use someones guilt as a way to control them is dispicable. I am not taking about your wife, or any of the others, for that matter. However, when you use something like this and try to control another through guilt, that is base and wrong.

Don't worry. She is not trying to make me feel guilty, and I don't. I do feel really aware of the pain that the loss of her husband is causing her.

When I hear some of the others talking about how their wives resist it, hate it, won't tolerate it, I wonder it the TG wouldn't be better off starting over? Life is a rare opportunity. We don't know that there is ever a second chance to do this thing right. Even if we do, the time we have here can seem like a prison sentence if we are not allowed to grow and be happy

Unfortunately, many wives DO resist it, hate it, and won't tolerate it. My point in all this is to underscore that this NOT an unreasonable position. As I said before, standing by your "woman" is not such an easy task. This is just a fact. There is no question. Ask her yourself. Is it easy? We both know the answer.


Why is she angry again? How old are you two? Why would she be perceived as a lesbian, unless the two of you were making out on the corner? As you get older, the sexual aspects become less and less important. People of the same sex live together all the time. Anyway, if she lives her live wanting to control what other people think, or trying to prevent being judged, other people decide what your life is, you don't.

OK, here goes. She is angry at ME for robbing her of her husband. I said in my first post that I had killed her husband. What ever you want to call it, he is gone. And with him went ALL her dreams of the future. A future with the two of us, retired, playing on some romantic, far away beach, or strolling the deck of some cruise ship with her handsome HUSBAND at her side. In it's place is a picture of two old ladies sitting in deck chairs knitting, or playing shuffleboard poolside at some resort.

We are in our early sixties.

Why would she be perceived as a lesbian? She would be perceived as a lesbian because we are obviously a couple in love. We both want to hold hands, cuddle, and relate as a couple. We might very well be "making out" on the corner. She does NOT want to just live together as two people of the same sex. She wants to be able to "make out" on the corner without society's condemnation She wants her MARRIAGE. She wants her MAN. Sure, people of the same sex just live together all the time. But that's not marriage, and it's NOT what she had in mind for the future. I said nothing about sex in all of this, and frankly, it's no one's business. It has nothing to do with the discussion.

She's not trying to control how I think. She is only reacting to how she FEELS. This may not be very clear thinking. As I said in one of my previous posts, it reeks of homophobia, something that she doesn't believe intellectually, but clearly feels emotionally. Hopefully therapy will alow her to overcome this. We are also searching for a good couples therapist. I believe we can save our marriage. She is not so positive about it. We love each other dearly and fiercely. We are both commited to our mariage. Can we overcome this traumatic event?


Well, hate society for the unrealistic conditions they place on you as an individual. Hate the bigots that will crucify you, if they had the chance. Make changes in how we are perceived and accepted. Don't hate your husband for these pressures. He has been carrying the weight of them for years. If you love him, then help him. Don't make him an object of condemnation. He gets that already.

She does hate society for the unrealistic conditions placed upon us. She does hate bigots. She does not hate her husband (Wife?) (Partner?) (SO?) (Lesbian lover?) (What am I?). See what I mean? She does love me. She does help me. She does not condemn me. This is just HARD for her. And to me, it's understandably hard. Probably harder than what I am doing. My transition is filled with joy and happiness for me. My transition is filled with sadness and loss for her. If she didn't love me with all her heart, she would be GONE. She's not. She's here and doing her best to get over and through this. I lover her for that.

And BTW, nobody has condemned me at all.

IF you're not strong enough to help or stand up, then what happened to your love? Transgenderism will not go away. Be grateful that your spouse will love you even more with acceptance. He will resent you if you shame him. Human nature.

See above. I think she is incredibly strong. I see everyday what has happened to her love. It's still here, and I will never resent her.



Dear Cara,

I think you're missing my point. She's not hatefull. Only angry. Angry at the one who took her husband away. And yet, the one who took her husband away is the one she loves and lives with, the one she crawls into bed with every night. The one she kisses goodbye every morning. I repeat again. My only point in all of this is to say that this task we are expecting of our wives is not easy. Not by any means. It's hard. Very, very hard. And if statistics and anecdotal evidence mean anything, not very many marriages survive the trauma.

Lovies,
Stephenie

[kittypw GG]

Sorry to interrupt a conversation that I know little about. But I do know about children and no matter what, they are better off with BOTH parents than not. Your wife will be harming your children if she keeps them away. Keep focused on what is good for them and they have every right to expect a continuation of love and will always benifit from that love from BOTH parents regardless of the details of their situation.

Stephanie S. you are very wise. What a wonderful person you must be. :love:

Kitty

[KrazyKat]

Thanks, Stephanie, this thread has so much thought and caring being bared for all to see. It is a great thing when we can share our feelings.

I am sending bestest wishes that you and yours can find your path to peace and happiness, side by side on the front porch rockers. This is something Karen and I continually use as a tool of something to look forward to!!:hugs:

I hope that the two of you, with so much love in your hearts, can find a way through the darkness to find your own kind of happiness, one that only the 2 of you together can share!! No one else in the world can truly be a part of your own intimacies, something I had to understand and let go of in the past.:love:

[Stephenie S]

Thanks Kitty, and thanks Krazykat. Thank you both for your well wishes. They do help, really.

Lovies,
Stephenie

[kim85]

As an SO when i found about my partners dressing one of the first questions i asked was do you want to go all the way the answer was no........ but even with that in mind i am not naive enough to think that this will always be the case. I have made it very clear to my SO that it this was to be the case then i couldnt stay. Im in love with "him" not "her" i would never stop it if that was what she wanted but i would struggle with it. Be annoyed and hurt. I feel that as partners of CD you have to at least be open to the possablity that they may want to go the entire way.

I think that your wifes react is a just one. As you yourself and many others have said she married a man. In a way she may be feeling rejected by you and hurt so she may be trying to make you feel the same (notice the may as no-one can comment on her state of mind) Best thing i can think of is give her time and space to try and get her head around it maybe even counselling will help

Good luck to you both
Kim
xxx

[Cara Allen]

Dear Cara,

I think you're missing my point. She's not hatefull. Only angry. Angry at the one who took her husband away. And yet, the one who took her husband away is the one she loves and lives with, the one she crawls into bed with every night. The one she kisses goodbye every morning. I repeat again. My only point in all of this is to say that this task we are expecting of our wives is not easy. Not by any means. It's hard. Very, very hard. And if statistics and anecdotal evidence mean anything, not very many marriages survive the trauma.

Lovies,
Stephenie


Well said.

I hope you find happiness, Stephanie.

[Sejd]

It's a journey for sure. I find my wife (a word I we now don't use anymore) to be extremely understanding as we process this path together. Lately, I have seen that there is this way we think we need to react, and then the way we end up really coping with it. theoretically, we need other partners especially for the sex, but in reality, how do you actually go that route when you are best friends and partners for life? I think we are at the beginning of this strange partnership exploration, dealing with Trans Gender issues, but I also think our good relationship makes this journey a good one, maybe even fun!!!
hugs to you all
Sejd:hugs:

[Stephenie S]

Well said.

I hope you find happiness, Stephanie.

Thank you, hon, thank you very much.

Stephie

[Sarahgurl371]

I do not know how you cope with losing a marriage over this. I wish I did, for her sake as well as mine.

I have read a ton of books, threads, web pages, looking at this thru the wife's eyes. I have tried to understand her point of view. I have tried to give her control. I have tried to give her space. I have tried to ally her fears. I have tried. And yet we are still, after better than 3 years of trying, on the verge of divorce. We both profess to loving each other. She is aware, or at least I have told her a million times, that I am the same person I have always been. Sometimes love just isn't enough. And maybe if I loved her enough I would set her free, because living with me hurts her, and that hurts me.

For me it is about trying to find acceptance of myself, and I need her help with that. Finding a balance between what I would do, and what I can do. While trying to maintain the personna that I have built up for the outside world. For her, just knowing what is in my head is too much. Even though I have yet to make any physical changes at all. Just the knowledge of what I think about is too much.

This leads to her not wanting imtimacy emotionally or other from/with me. Which in turn leads me to resent of her. It is so diffucult to keep putting yourself out there to someone who rejects YOU everytime. Yet I stay. She stays. We stay miserable. Both of us not able to see how we can get thru this with what is acceptable to us.

She says that she did not marry a woman. And that is how she sees me. I try to not let her see that. Hell, I even reufse to believe it about myself. But this is what she sees.

A couple of years ago she tried. It was the happiest time of my life. It wasn't for her though and she discovered that this isn't what she can live with. Which leads me to resent her more. To take something away that is this important....

In the end, I repsect her enough to not push the issue except in words. She has lost all repsect for me. but we are still together. At least as roomates?

So it seems that neither one of us can cope with losing a marriage.

[melissaK]

I do not know how you cope with losing a marriage over this. . . . I have read a ton of books, threads, web pages, looking at this thru the wife's eyes. . . . We both profess to loving each other. . . . . Just the knowledge of what I think about is too much. . . .
This leads to her not wanting imtimacy emotionally or other from/with me. . . . She says that she did not marry a woman. And that is how she sees me. . . . but we are still together. . . . . So it seems that neither one of us can cope with losing a marriage.

Way tooooo similar to my own story. Have you ever told her "No, you did marry a woman!" I am NOT recommending you say this, just wondering if you have already tried this argument and if so what were the results?

Obladi-obladi
Hugs too,
'lissa

[kim85]

I have the feeling that wives are not going to like this, but they make a choice, every moment to accept or resist. Keep an open mind, or go with an unfounded emotion. They have a choice. We don't. I am sorry, but this is not a choice thing. You can choose to keep your job, or change it. Vote Republican or Democrat. Break the law, or obey it. But you cannot deny transgenderism, or that is is not choice.

How do we have a choice..... Many cd's do not tell there SO's about their dressing when they get together. Feelings develop and you either fall in love or you dont we do not get to pick and choose who we fall in love with. Yes many of us CHOOSE to stay and try to come to terms with it or to come to a compromise. Its not as easy as saying we can walk away. On the flip side of it would you be able to walk away easily if your SO said she couldnt cope with it or would you try to think of another solution/compromise.
Kim
xxx

[Stephenie S]

Listen, hon, let me pick through your letter and give you some of my opinions, OK? Maybe some of what I have to say will help, maybe not, but let's try.


I do not know how you cope with losing a marriage over this. I wish I did, for her sake as well as mine.

I have read a ton of books, threads, web pages, looking at this thru the wife's eyes. I have tried to understand her point of view. I have tried to give her control. I have tried to give her space.

I don't think she wants control, or space, she wants her husband. She wants her MAN. Control and space may be useless to her at this point. These are things that partners in every relationship need, but her need is to relieve the HURT over the loss of her husband.

I have tried to ally her fears. I have tried. And yet we are still, after better than 3 years of trying, on the verge of divorce. We both profess to loving each other. She is aware, or at least I have told her a million times, that I am the same person I have always been.

But dear, you are NOT the same person you have always been. To YOU you are the same, but to her you are a completely different person. Telling her you haven't changed may just anoy her. She can see perfectly well you have changed. Come on, in her mind you're a woman now. That's a bit different, isn't it?

Sometimes love just isn't enough. And maybe if I loved her enough I would set her free, because living with me hurts her, and that hurts me.

I'm sure you love her enough, but that's not really the problem here. The problem is that she does not want to be married to a woman, and she can think of NO way around this.

For me it is about trying to find acceptance of myself, and I need her help with that. Finding a balance between what I would do, and what I can do. While trying to maintain the personna that I have built up for the outside world. For her, just knowing what is in my head is too much. Even though I have yet to make any physical changes at all. Just the knowledge of what I think about is too much.

This leads to her not wanting imtimacy emotionally or other from/with me. Which in turn leads me to resent of her. It is so diffucult to keep putting yourself out there to someone who rejects YOU everytime. Yet I stay. She stays. We stay miserable. Both of us not able to see how we can get thru this with what is acceptable to us.

Please stop with the resentment thing. That's gonna go nowhere fast. How can you possible resent her for not wanting to be intimate with a woman? She's not a lesbian. She has TOLD you that. And she has told you that she sees you as a woman now. So intimacy may be out for you both, but for sure, RESENTMENT about this should be OUT, OUT, OUT, for you at this point. That's only going to fan the fire.

Clearly she is not rejecting YOU. She is still with you, and trying to work this out. What she is rejecting is the thought of intimacy with another woman. Give the resentment a rest.

She says that she did not marry a woman. And that is how she sees me. I try to not let her see that. Hell, I even reufse to believe it about myself. But this is what she sees.

A couple of years ago she tried. It was the happiest time of my life. It wasn't for her though and she discovered that this isn't what she can live with. Which leads me to resent her more. To take something away that is this important....

In the end, I repsect her enough to not push the issue except in words. She has lost all repsect for me. but we are still together. At least as roomates?

Roomates may be all you can hope to salvage out of this relationship. That will be a tragedy, but it may be reality. The fact that you are both still here is a HUGE plus. Try to work really hard on the positive aspects that you still share and let go of the guilt, blame, and resentment. You have GOT to show her what positive reasons she has for staying with you. If all she can see is resentment, nothing will save your marriage.

So it seems that neither one of us can cope with losing a marriage.

Many others are working on the same thing, hon. Let's keep sharing and working together. It's a hard job, but most of what's worth having in this life doesn't come easy.

Lovies,
Stephenie

[Cara Allen]

How do we have a choice..... Many cd's do not tell there SO's about their dressing when they get together. Feelings develop and you either fall in love or you dont we do not get to pick and choose who we fall in love with. Yes many of us CHOOSE to stay and try to come to terms with it or to come to a compromise. Its not as easy as saying we can walk away. On the flip side of it would you be able to walk away easily if your SO said she couldnt cope with it or would you try to think of another solution/compromise.
Kim
xxx

Kim,

It is true that you usually do not know when you get involved. However, you chose this person as a life partner. You know you did. If he was physically or emotionally repulsive to you, then you wouldn't have become involved. To say that love chose for you is just not the way it works. If it were, lots of fat, old guys would be hooked up with young good looking girls, and lots of older women would have young studs. Women are almost always in the drivers seat when it comes to choosing a mate.

On the flip side, that is a real possiblilty that she might choose to make her own way. What I am has something to do with that, but people get divorced for lots of reasons. If what I am is not what she wants, then she has to come to a decision about what she wants. What I am, is what I am. It would be psychologically unhealthy for me to not make this change. I don't want her to leave, but in the end, if that were necessary, we can both be happy. Others do not make your happiness, you do, Kim. Your happiness is based on what you want from your life. You shouldn't compromise, and neither should she. When you do, you resent it.

[kim85]

Kim,

It is true that you usually do not know when you get involved. However, you chose this person as a life partner.If he was physically or emotionally repulsive to you, then you wouldn't have become involved.
Intially the person i chose to devlop a relationship with was "steve" at that point i didnt know about joanna-louise. I was attracted to "him" and then my feelings devloped into love which is the point i was trying to get at. When i fell in love it was with "him". I wasnt saying that you fall in love as soon as you see them, i was getting at the point that once in the relationship you do. Thats then when the bombshell is dropped the choices you are left with is to either continue the relationship or leave at that point then yes we do have a choice. i have already admitted to him that had i know about it before the realtionship then i probly wouldnt be with him. Shallow......yes it is and i can understand why a lot of CD's dont tell their partners. I dont hold any resent towards him/her for not telling me infact in a twisted way im glad that he didnt. At first i hated the fact that i was lied to but what made it easier for me is that "she" had been locked away about 6 months before we met.


You shouldn't compromise, and neither should she. When you do, you resent it.
I disagree that you resent it sometimes you need to compromise in order for both people to be happy. If you truly love them walking away is the hardest thing to do

[Cara Allen]

One more thing: People who think this way (the marriage can be saved, there's always hope) need a dose of reality because they seem to be in denial. Denial of what this journey really is and denial as far as what it means to their partner.

Transition is NOT a hobby. It's not something you do for kicks or in a vacuum. It's something you do because you have to. And because this is a CD board let me clarify that: This isn't about acting or playing a part. It's about being who you really are, who you've always been, but the outside world hasn't seen it. This isn't about becoming more feminine, it abouit becoming more YOU. If you haven't felt totally out of place your whole life transition isn't for you. If you have a problem with being seen as a second class citizen or about giving up the privileges that come with being male in this society (and there are many), MtF transition isn't for you.

But if you really are a female on the inside, transition, and all the trials and tribulations inherent therein, are worth it. There are no words to describe the joy of finally being seen for who you are. To be able to interact with other women on an equal plane and not seen with suspicion or as a threat anymore. Life really is different on the other side and if you are not prepared for that, if you are not female, you will really be in deep poo poo.

Sorry, that was more than I intended to write. But I hope you get the point: Transition is SERIOUS business.

Nicely and succinctly put, Jane. This is very serious business. If you think for one second that your spouse is faking it, or has a choice to do or not do, best think again. It angers me when an SO indicates, "whell, what about MY feelings?" You have no idea. For the TS/TG, this has nothing to do with your feelings. This has to do with a serious and unreasoning condition that is not ameniable to therapy, and is hard wired from birth. The suicide rate among TG people is unbelieveably high.

Consider that this is just the tip of the iceberg. There are gender clinics now, all around the country who are there to address this condition with comprehensive care, an entire groupo of doctors and clinicians. GID won't wash off, it can't be negotiated with, it won't stop. If you love someone, close your eyes and try for just a minute to even consider what this must be like, then open your eyes and look at the person you love. Realize that this is something that they have been laboring with for all of their lives. Realize that your impact, what you want or think, has absolutely no bearing on this condition. Believe it, because it is true.

What can you do now? I can't answer that. Only you can answer that. Either you stay and try to help, or you choose to go. If you stay, you assume some of the Heat that he has been taking his whole life, privately. Why should you? I can't answer that, either. You know the rest.

I do know that since this is a real condition, and it is not ameniable to any conventional form of resolution, that it is NOT up to the TS/TG to change, but to accept himself and try to be normal (whatever that is.) S/he has to learn to be personally integrated, and not conflicted. It is going to be up to society to change, if there is to be a change. With regards to that, the SO can be part of the problem (resisting and holding out,) or part of the solution (helping her to integrate for the first time in her life.)

[Maggie Kay]

It seems that the recommended position here is that a TG person should assume that their marriage is doomed and to proceed with divorce or separation. Why even try to find a working solution, I suppose. I know that in my case it has been seven years of arguments as my TG condition progressed and unfolded. I should have just up an left instead? Is that preferable or evidence that I am not in denial? Does it matter that I love my wife and that she still loves me? We are now going though another terrible time as we have to adapt to the fact that I am in therapy for transgender care and every time I come back there is a coldness in the house. She is the one that set it up for me as she was so concerned about me talking about my death every day. I may have to distance myself from my SO to protect her from my emotions. In our house, raising one's voice is considered being abusive and I get so fearful that I do talk loudly and that is then considered being abusive. So I will avoid talking to her and shut her out of most of my life. This after 21 years of marriage, facing cancer, partial blindness, being disowned and bankruptcy after losing a business. Now this will tear us apart? I guess so.

[Stephenie S]

It seems that the recommended position here is that a TG person should assume that their marriage is doomed and to proceed with divorce or separation. Why even try to find a working solution, I suppose. I know that in my case it has been seven years of arguments as my TG condition progressed and unfolded. I should have just up an left instead? Is that preferable or evidence that I am not in denial? Does it matter that I love my wife and that she still loves me? We are now going though another terrible time as we have to adapt to the fact that I am in therapy for transgender care and every time I come back there is a coldness in the house. She is the one that set it up for me as she was so concerned about me talking about my death every day. I may have to distance myself from my SO to protect her from my emotions. In our house, raising one's voice is considered being abusive and I get so fearful that I do talk loudly and that is then considered being abusive. So I will avoid talking to her and shut her out of most of my life. This after 21 years of marriage, facing cancer, partial blindness, being disowned and bankruptcy after losing a business. Now this will tear us apart? I guess so.

Oh sweetie, I don't think anyone is saying that your marriage is doomed and you should just file for divorce tomorrow. Far from it.

What I, and a few others are saying, is that it may not be as easy for our wives to accept this traumatic occurance as it may appear at first glance.

Many, many, times I have read here on this forum and on others the lament, "Oh, why can't they just understand? Why can't they just accept me for who I am? What is so hard about continuing a relationship with me now? Can't she see that I'm really no different? Can't she see I'm really the same person underneath?"

My point is that it IS hard. Probably harder for them than it is for us. Transition is an all encompassing act. It's hard for us to think about anything else. We also have the advantage of being the transitioner. It's US. We know all about who we are and what we are like. She doesn't have a clue. For her, her whole world is turned upside down. Everything she thought was true about you is in question now. Listen, girl, you are experiencing this first-hand. It should be obvious to you how hard this is for her. She's still there. Still by your side. Still willing to find some resolution to this.

You hint in your post that, in your view, you have a very minor role to play in your family. That of money provider only. This seems to imply that your wife is with you only for financial reasons. If this were really true, you would be better off without her. I am convinced that this can't really be true as she could have divorced you and continued to receive spousal and child support. None the less, it can't be very good for your self esteem to look upon yourself that way.

I think that there are other issues in your relationship that need resolution. Other issues that might respond to couples therapy regardless of the gender issue. I am not a therapist, and I don't know you from Adam's off oxe, so I won't presume to try to tell you what is wrong with your realtionship. I can't. But I will say that I am worried about your lack of self worth. "Pond scum" is not a phrase I would use on my worst enemy (well, my worst enemy? Maybe I should re-think that). Anyway, certainly not for anyone like yourself.

Anyway, please keep talking. Freezing her out does carry a guarantee of failure. I know you can talk to her without raising your voice. Maybe ask for her help with that. Perhaps you could have a signal from her that you are getting too loud (raising a finger?).

The picture you paint of your relationship as it now stands is not a picture of a relationship that I would want to save in any case. I really think couples therapy would help you both. Stay together, or split apart, whatever you do you will have to remain friends for the sake of the children. Please try to work on the POSITIVE aspects of your relationship because whatever you do, you will remain the parents of your children for ever.

And always remember this is a support group. We support you. There is no condemnation here even when we sound a bit harsh. Not for you, hon.

Lovies,
Stephenie

[Sarahgurl371]

Stephenie.

OUCH! I guess that was my first reaction to your post.

I absolutely understand that resentment is not a pleasant feeling to have aimed at you. I know becase she feels it as well.

For the record. I have tried to be supportive of her, still do. To the point that I always tell her that she is ENTITLED to her feelings, they are real and they are valid. I would never want to coerce her into acceptance. That would be so wrong.

I continue to do all the "manly" things I have always done. I do most of the "womanly" things around the house as well. I guess as an attempt to show her that this is not some game where all I want is the glamorous side of things. Like I said, I read a ton of information, took it to heart, modified my behavior, in an attempt to give her something to hold on to. These things are now just taken for granted. Oh, there comes that resentment again. At any rate, the qualities that she says she loves/loved about me are definitely more associated with the steroetypical female range of personality. Again, to her I was a man who possesed these emotions/traits, I understand.

I know this is a poor medium for acurate conversation so let me just say that I think I have tried everything I can to help her through this. I know she just wants her man. I get it. The fact of the matter is that I have never felt that way. Just a little lost all my life. And yes that is how she saw me.

Resentment comes when you feel that you have exhausted all options. That your patience is at it's end. That you are the only one trying, bending, giving, compromising. Resentment comes when there is no compromise, and she won't tell you that she cannot live with this anymore. She won't talk to you, or about you to someone who may help. Her fix is to ignore me, it, our problem until it goes away.

I have fear of us ending. I have told her this. I have fear for myself if I am free, where will it lead? I have told her this. These are a part of my wanting to fix our marriage, absolutley. Part. I have told her this as well. For me, it would be no good to be dishonest ever again. I am ashamed of the deceit I practied for those several years, oh so long ago. The secret made me act in a manner that I am embarassed of.

I have held out hope for some workable solution for so long now. But we are both in this relationship and we both have to work at it. I am just finding little reason to have hope anymore. This in turn leads to resentment.

I know this is my problem. I own it. I just have this idealogic notion of friendship/marriage, that we are supposed to help each other thru. Of course if I where to have known 16 years ago that this was not going to leave me alone, that love wasn't a cure for it, there would have been full disclosure then. I thought I could make this all go away. I thought love would. I thought someone else could give me what I thought I was lacking. I know that there are things wrong with me on so many different levels, and I try to be a better person. But I am me.

And I don't know how I would react if the shoe where on the other foot. I would like to think that I would try to be a better person. Its hard for me to have that perspective having this life experience. I would have to assume I am normal, which I am not.

I sit here thinking about this, thinking. There is no way to fix this. To make her happy and myself as well. I just don't want to accept that either.

[Stephenie S]

Hmmm.

I think many of us didn't realize so long ago that this would come to a place where we could do nothing but transition. I know I didn't. I thought I could go on and on, pretending to be a guy for as long as I needed to.

For me what did it was getting older. Now that I am a woman of a "certain age", I realize that I don't have forever any more. Now I realize that my life is more than half over. Now I realize that this will only happen if I make it happen.

That's a little off track now, isn't it? We were talking about resentment. Resentment is poison, you know. I am well aware of how easy it is to justify. I just know it will do nothing to help your cause. I have no idea how old you are, hon, but how much of your time do you have available to spend resenting anything in your life? I don't got any.

I am sorry for the "ouch". I really don't mean to be so brusk sometimes. Certainly not with you. My apologies.

Lovies,
Stephenie

[Cara Allen]

It seems that the recommended position here is that a TG person should assume that their marriage is doomed and to proceed with divorce or separation. Why even try to find a working solution, I suppose. I know that in my case it has been seven years of arguments as my TG condition progressed and unfolded. I should have just up an left instead? Is that preferable or evidence that I am not in denial? Does it matter that I love my wife and that she still loves me? We are now going though another terrible time as we have to adapt to the fact that I am in therapy for transgender care and every time I come back there is a coldness in the house. She is the one that set it up for me as she was so concerned about me talking about my death every day. I may have to distance myself from my SO to protect her from my emotions. In our house, raising one's voice is considered being abusive and I get so fearful that I do talk loudly and that is then considered being abusive. So I will avoid talking to her and shut her out of most of my life. This after 21 years of marriage, facing cancer, partial blindness, being disowned and bankruptcy after losing a business. Now this will tear us apart? I guess so.

I can say that it does not have to be that way. My SO will probably stay. I was talking to another TS this evening on the phone, and her SO has chosen to stay and she has been transitioning for two years.

You say that raising your voice is not allowed in your house. I have found that, for me, when I raise my voice, it is because I am loosing my temper, and things are getting out of control. Maybe you need to try and talk about how you feel with her, and listen to her tell you how she feels. It is a hallmark of femininity to be nurturant and listen. Not offer advice, just listen. Woman don't allways want solutions, they want understanding. Woman are very social people. Men want to be solution providers.

Try to speak the language that you have, buried deep down. It's in there. You're TG.

Use the Force, Luke!

[Ema1234 GG]

Nicely and succinctly put, Jane. This is very serious business. If you think for one second that your spouse is faking it, or has a choice to do or not do, best think again. It angers me when an SO indicates, "whell, what about MY feelings?" You have no idea. For the TS/TG, this has nothing to do with your feelings. This has to do with a serious and unreasoning condition that is not ameniable to therapy, and is hard wired from birth. The suicide rate among TG people is unbelieveably high.

Consider that this is just the tip of the iceberg. There are gender clinics now, all around the country who are there to address this condition with comprehensive care, an entire groupo of doctors and clinicians. GID won't wash off, it can't be negotiated with, it won't stop. If you love someone, close your eyes and try for just a minute to even consider what this must be like, then open your eyes and look at the person you love. Realize that this is something that they have been laboring with for all of their lives. Realize that your impact, what you want or think, has absolutely no bearing on this condition. Believe it, because it is true.

What can you do now? I can't answer that. Only you can answer that. Either you stay and try to help, or you choose to go. If you stay, you assume some of the Heat that he has been taking his whole life, privately. Why should you? I can't answer that, either. You know the rest.

I do know that since this is a real condition, and it is not ameniable to any conventional form of resolution, that it is NOT up to the TS/TG to change, but to accept himself and try to be normal (whatever that is.) S/he has to learn to be personally integrated, and not conflicted. It is going to be up to society to change, if there is to be a change. With regards to that, the SO can be part of the problem (resisting and holding out,) or part of the solution (helping her to integrate for the first time in her life.)

I actually can't believe that post. They way you talk is as though the SO's feelings on anything do not matter. Infact, you even say it out right. I find it unbelievable that someone who themselves is part of a minority group fighting for acceptance can belittle someonelse's feelings so easily.

A relationship is about compromise, regardless of whether there are TG or TS issues involved. And it's the lies and deceit that are often the main problem, quite often these even continue after she has found out. How is that conductive to a fully functioning relationship.

You tell us to try and see it from your point of view? What the hell do you think we are all doing? Perhaps if the TG/TS slowed down a little bit and tried to see it from the SO's point of view, it would make things a little bit easier. A relationship is not all about one person and if a TG/TS wants everything to be about them, maybe it is them who should leave a relationship, rather than trying to blame it on their SO. It's about compromise from both sides, and if the TG/TS expects their SO to compromise, but isn't prepared to do the same, it's them with the problem not the SO.

[Maggie Kay]

You tell us to try and see it from your point of view? What the hell do you think we are all doing? Perhaps if the TG/TS slowed down a little bit and tried to see it from the SO's point of view, it would make things a little bit easier. A relationship is not all about one person and if a TG/TS wants everything to be about them, maybe it is them who should leave a relationship, rather than trying to blame it on their SO. It's about compromise from both sides, and if the TG/TS expects their SO to compromise, but isn't prepared to do the same, it's them with the problem not the SO.

I agree with this statement whole heartedly but, when the slowing down becomes so slow that progress stops, then there is a major issue. We have to live with this condition in our minds 24/7 so slowing down is on our plate all the time. For the SO, she can and my SO does have other activities and literally forgets the problem.She has told me that she doesn't think about it much most of the time. As for waiting, I have been in a state of transition for seven years and on HRT for five. I'm 56 should I wait another seven to be a whole person? At 63, I might be then able to start to live? Or is the compromise really delaying the transition as long as possible?

[kim85]

I agree with this statement whole heartedly but, when the slowing down becomes so slow that progress stops, then there is a major issue. We have to live with this condition in our minds 24/7 so slowing down is on our plate all the time. For the SO, she can and my SO does have other activities and literally forgets the problem.She has told me that she doesn't think about it much most of the time. As for waiting, I have been in a state of transition for seven years and on HRT for five. I'm 56 should I wait another seven to be a whole person? At 63, I might be then able to start to live? Or is the compromise really delaying the transition as long as possible?

I get where your coming from i am under no illusion that its easy for anyone who is a cd/ts. i totally get that its on your mind 24/7 and it always will be. BUT part of the reason that the transition is been delayed is because you yourself are willing to compromise. You care about your so and the impact that your transition is having on her :cheer: for you. If it is is really making you that unhappy YOU have the choice to leave. Its no easy thing to leave a realtionship and im not saying that it is. But if you are truly unhappy you need to think about what will make you happy. If you feel that your SO is holding you back due to the fact that you no longer feel the compromise is working for your suituation you will come to resent her and thats never a nice thing

[Ema1234 GG]

I agree with this statement whole heartedly but, when the slowing down becomes so slow that progress stops, then there is a major issue. We have to live with this condition in our minds 24/7 so slowing down is on our plate all the time. For the SO, she can and my SO does have other activities and literally forgets the problem.She has told me that she doesn't think about it much most of the time. As for waiting, I have been in a state of transition for seven years and on HRT for five. I'm 56 should I wait another seven to be a whole person? At 63, I might be then able to start to live? Or is the compromise really delaying the transition as long as possible?

That sounds like a really tought place you're at Maggie. I'd have to agree with Kim on this one, and say that if you really cannot be happy without fully transitioning, yet she can't live with that, then perhaps it's time for some difficult decisions. I really feel for you and your wife. :hugs:

I guess what it comes down to, is what is most important. Your wife or transitioning. Such a difficult question I know, but if she can't accept you transitioning, are you willing to accept not going full through with it, or are you willing to walk away from the relationship in order to complete it. I guess she may well have put her cards on the table and it's up to you to make a decision now.

BUT, perhaps it is just a way to delay it, and faced with loosing you she may become more accepting. Who knows. It's a situation I certainly don't envy you in. I hope in some way, you find a compromise you can both be happy with.