When Does CD become TG

[wishonastar]

It seems to me for many CDing is a "test" or a step to TG.

Any thought on this?

[MonikaW]

I think labels are usually very fluid and depend on how a person may with to identify themselves. So I would ask by what do you mean by TG? Using the broadest definition of TG, those of us who crossdress are also TG.

[wishonastar]

I think labels are usually very fluid and depend on how a person may with to identify themselves. So I would ask by what do you mean by TG? Using the broadest definition of TG, those of us who crossdress are also TG.

If I was many years younger and rich I would probably have been TG.

I wanted to be normal with a normal family so that was stronger than my gender needs, not sure it was a good idea now. Maybe I could have had a family also and still be me, not a lie!

[Shelly Preston]

It seems to me for many CDing is a "test" or a step to TG.

Any thought on this?

I think you mean CD to TS

TG takes in the whole community CD FTM TS etc

I would say that CD is is only a step if you are TS

However you can be a CD without being TS

[Nicki B]

I said this to someone yesterday, who seemed to be getting hung up on artificial divisions between us:
I only see value in two labels - TG, for all of us - and TS, for that subset who specifically need medical intervention?

And by us, I mean both M2F & F2M.

We're all in the same [-]Pirate Ship[/-] boat?

We all suffer, however slight, or severe, from a gender dissonance???

[MJ]

It seems to me for many CDing is a "test" or a step to TG.

who in there right frame of mind would want to TEST out becoming a Trans woman or trans man This is something we are born with


[QUOTE=wishonastar;1081904]If I was many years younger and rich I would probably have been TG.

i have never meat a Rich transgendered person ..
i am not young or rich but i am tg

I wanted to be normal with a normal family so that was stronger than my gender needs, not sure it was a good idea now. Maybe I could have had a family also and still be me, not a lie!

i just wish i was normal ... you know we all have a life that we chose ... but how many of us get to relay live

[Kieron Andrew]

i just wish i was normal ...

by my reckoning you are 'Normal'....*anyone know what normal is anyway??* (rhetorical question, no answer required)

[LilahCD]

IMHO, there only distinction between hetero TS and TG is: what is your motivation?

If you go all the way with the clothes and makeup, enjoy yourself for a time and then tire of it for whatever reason.. say the rush ends and you feel silly, like you're fooling yourself and then strip it all off, wash up and step right back into your hetero life you're a garden variety crossdresser.

If it's a sexual fetish and you don't feel mentally any different while you crossdress (besides very turned on) pleasure yourself and then feel dirty, with a need to strip it off.. As far as I know that means you're a transvestite who only has a somewhat unhealthy fetish for women's clothes

Lastly.. If you dress up, do your makeup, your nails, etc. and can go out feeling more confident about yourself, more "normal", with a definite mental shift towards womanhood (I don't just mean submissiveness/servitude here, but wonderful, joyous, clean, free), are not turned on by any of it at all (or turned on very little), feel abnormal as your male self without at least some form of ladies underwear, look distastefully at your male genitalia, are mistaken in voice as female over the phone, or in dim light because of your bearing and general "vibe"... then maybe, just maybe, you're a candidate for M2F transitioning.

[RylieCD]

I understand, I too want to have the wife and kids but the cd kinda gets in the way. Worse yet the confussion of CD-TS and all the other Websites out there that have indicated that a happliy married CD wakes up one day and tells his wife that he just cant take it any more and he must go further?? I have told my Wife that I want the wife and kids but I cant quit the CD, no matter how hard I try.

[carhill2mn]

I think statements like this are frequently the result of a lack of knowledge and understanding. Certainly, there are those who crossdress prior to either having SRS or living full-time as a woman. But, INMHO, the vast majority of those that consider themselves to be crossdressers will never become anything else. They are content to remain crossdressers. Some will CD infrequently, others more often; some will never be seen by others, some will venture into society presenting as a woman. One size does not fit all!

[Emily Ann Brown]

Bingo Carole !


I at first considered myself to be CD. The more I accepted myself and asked more tough questions the more I realized I was TG (or TS). If I was truly just a CD I would have answered the questions differently, and been happy a CD for the rest of my life.


Emily Ann

[Raquelle C]

Lilah, well said. I have not heard it put that way before, although there are other in betweens that vary depending on the individual. Sometimes I feel like I need to take it all off after having a night of fun, while other times I do feel the need to live on as a woman, for at least a little while longer.

I personally would not give up my life, business, and the norm for anything. Although, for me a periodic expression of my fem side is a necessity. :)

CDing is seems like one of the first steps for someone transitioning to TS, of course it also seems that most do not.

[Julogden]

Hi wishonastar,

"TG" nowadays is an umbrella term that is used to include all people whose gender presentation varies from the "normal" male/man or female/woman, so if you're a CD, most, though not all people, would consider you to be transgendered.

There are some CD's here who strongly object to being called transgendered, and I'm not contradicting their opinions of themselves, rather this is intended to let you know how the term TG is usually used currently.

Carol

[MarinaTwelve200]

I said this to someone yesterday, who seemed to be getting hung up on artificial divisions between us:

And by us, I mean both M2F & F2M.

We're all in the same [-]Pirate Ship[/-] boat?

We all suffer, however slight, or severe, from a gender dissonance???

"Gender Dissonance"? Not all CDing is gender based. It could also be based on "ME vs NOT ME" for instance, in the case of CD being used as a personal identity "escape", for example, and also for mental and "taboo tripping" or the rush of "risk taking". or fetishes.

Dont let the gender variation aspects of CD blind one to the other aspects of the psyche that crossdressng services. A lot of personal angst and confusion in CD matters stems on dwelling on the "more obvious appearing" "gender factors" that may be involved in CDing when the REAL issue or motivation may not be based on gender at all. a fetish may not have anything to do with what a guy wants to be a woman or not, nor does being "NOT ME" mean I want to become a woman---its just that a woman IS not me.

[Lucy Bright]

Gosh darn, now I'm confused! I thought TG was a narrower term, one that in fact fitted what I consider myself to be - namely, someone who has no stable gender identity, who is uncomfortable being seen (by self or others) as male, but doesn't necessarily wish to be seen as wholly female either. In my own case, buffeted by the gender binaries of language and culture, I tend to flip-flop between male and female modes, but suspect that my 'natural' state may be neither (or both). That's what I thought TG meant - but if TG is just an umbrella term for everyone from recreational cross-dressers to transsexuals, I no longer know how to think of myself. On the other hand, I'm kind of used to that.

More generally, I tend to think of CDing as a behaviour, rather than as a label for a type of person. It's something that people do for many reasons, and you can no more generalize about people's motivations for CDing than you can about their motivations for, say, drinking or (to choose a more salubrious analogy) cycling.

But I'm fairly new to this whole world (the language of it, not the practice!), so more than willing to be corrected...

Kisses,

Lucy

[Julie York]

It seems to me for many CDing is a "test" or a step to TG.

Any thought on this?

Yes. But in the same way that going to school is the first test to becoming a rocket scientist.


It is the first expression of the desire. Where it leads is up to luck, genetics, and ............and....and stuff.


(QUOTE SOMEBODY)"If it's a sexual fetish and you don't feel mentally any different while you crossdress (besides very turned on) pleasure yourself and then feel dirty, with a need to strip it off.. As far as I know that means you're a transvestite who only has a somewhat unhealthy fetish for women's clothes."(UNQUOTE SOMEBODY)

Hey..you were doing o.k. until the 'unhealthy' bit.


:D

[Pamela Julie]

CD is how you dress on the outside. TS is how you feel inside. You can be one without being the other. CD will not lead one to become ts, however most ts are at least part time cd, or are going crazy trying to avoid it. Accept yourself for who you are, and I will accept you, regardless of labels.

PJ

[LilahCD]

Yes. But in the same way that going to school is the first test to becoming a rocket scientist.


It is the first expression of the desire. Where it leads is up to luck, genetics, and ............and....and stuff.


(QUOTE SOMEBODY)"If it's a sexual fetish and you don't feel mentally any different while you crossdress (besides very turned on) pleasure yourself and then feel dirty, with a need to strip it off.. As far as I know that means you're a transvestite who only has a somewhat unhealthy fetish for women's clothes."(UNQUOTE SOMEBODY)

Hey..you were doing o.k. until the 'unhealthy' bit.


:D

Hi hun, this is "SOMEBODY". :tongueout

And yes, I do believe that in most cases of our example, it is unhealthy; I may not be the most educated in this type of thing on these boards, but the way I see it.. it's almost a sure sign that this individual views women as sexual objects, hence the dressing up, getting a woody and.. pleasuring themselves, followed by the feelings of guilt and regret; deep down they know what they did was wrong, that their reasons for dressing up are far from noble; indeed, it can arise from the very basest of desires. *shudders*

Dress up, masturbate, cry in shame and strip it off.. If anyone here follows this behavior, then I'm sorry if my post offends you.. this is all my opinion, take it or leave it. :p And of course, if there's no shame involved for you.. then I could never understand you, but as is oft said, "The world takes all types"... whether you see the need or not.

[Jazzmine]

by my reckoning you are 'Normal'....*anyone know what normal is anyway??* (rhetorical question, no answer required)
I'll answer anyway!
In New Zealand we had a TV show to find the most "normal" person (using average criteria). Started off with tens of thousands of entrants, then down to 1000s, down to 100s, down to 10s, then to, you guessed it, 1 person.
This proved how stupid the concept of being "normal" is.....1 person now represents all of NZ as "normal". Think about it, ALL other people in NZ were eliminated because they were not "normal". And the person that won seemed quisically abnormal in terms of their interests, job and lifestyle.

And another thing, if you were to look at say, all rabbits, you would generally speaking, be hard pressed to find an abnormal one. They all behave in broadly the same manner.
The same for humans, if you were an alien looking down at earth you would be hard pressed to see "abnormal" human behaviour because everything we do is common to all races across the globe.
That's scary isn't it! Actually no, it's "normal".

YAY!!! We're all normal!

Hugs Jazzmine

[Rita B]

TG is the broad term that encompasses so many degrees of assimilation of the female gender. Some are happy wearing some articles of female clothing and that is ok. Others want to dress completely and act out their femininity, and that's ok too, while others won't be happy until they have accomplished a complete transition up to and including SRS.

Terminology seems to change with the times. It used to be that anyone who wore clothing of the opposite gender was called a transvestite which is mostly a clinical term. Then the term "crossdresser" became more acceptable especially in the media. Of course, the term transexual is self explanatory. Are all these people transgendered. To some degree or other, yes. Personally, I like to be called a T Girl and reserve the option of just what that entails when and to whom I want.

I have come to accept myself as a T Girl and I am quite open about it even though I am married and hetero. I love the many friends that I am acquiring in the TG Community. It's a wonderful family and we all have our little stories to tell.

Hugs and God Bless

[Sally24]

I'm confused! I thought TG was a narrower term, one that in fact fitted what I consider myself to be - namely, someone who has no stable gender identity, who is uncomfortable being seen (by self or others) as male, but doesn't necessarily wish to be seen as wholly female either.I tend to flip-flop between male and female modes, but suspect that my 'natural' state may be neither (or both).

I no longer know how to think of myself. On the other hand, I'm kind of used to that.


I think you are what some refer to as a "gender bender". You don't want to be defined as male or female and prefer to show attributes of both at the same time.

IDIC

[Melora]

I have always thought and read that a CD was one who does not do it all of the time, And that TG = Trans Gender was nothing more than an umbrella term, given to those who Dress. A Tranvestite is one who dresses all of the time, and a Transexual is one who has gone.. "All the way". A Drag Queen does it for acting. A ******* is one who looks totally female except she is a Male. That is all I have ever thought about it, But dont LABELS just suck for the MOST part?? We are all Human after all, Except Those who are Predjudous, racist, Judgemental and insensitive.. :2c:

[docrobbysherry]

Hi hun, this is "SOMEBODY". :tongueout

And yes, I do believe that in most cases of our example, it is unhealthy; I may not be the most educated in this type of thing on these boards, but the way I see it.. it's almost a sure sign that this individual views women as sexual objects, hence the dressing up, getting a woody and.. pleasuring themselves, followed by the feelings of guilt and regret; deep down they know what they did was wrong, that their reasons for dressing up are far from noble; indeed, it can arise from the very basest of desires. *shudders*

Dress up, masturbate, cry in shame and strip it off.. If anyone here follows this behavior, then I'm sorry if my post offends you.. this is all my opinion, take it or leave it. :p And of course, if there's no shame involved for you.. then I could never understand you, but as is oft said, "The world takes all types"... whether you see the need or not.

Lilah, I'm waiting to hear your "healthy" and "noble" reasons for dressing. Now that you've trashed all of the dirty, unhealthy, hobby and fetish CD's.
RS

www.myspace.com/robertsherry

[ericalynncd]

Lilah, well said. I have not heard it put that way before, although there are other in betweens that vary depending on the individual. Sometimes I feel like I need to take it all off after having a night of fun, while other times I do feel the need to live on as a woman, for at least a little while longer.

I personally would not give up my life, business, and the norm for anything. Although, for me a periodic expression of my fem side is a necessity. :)

CDing is seems like one of the first steps for someone transitioning to TS, of course it also seems that most do not.
nicely said

[SarahMus]

Do not mean to interrupt this thread. Since I am one of 3 people who do not text or use abbreviations much, I have seen INMHO or variations of it on this site. What does it stand for?

Sarah

[LilahCD]

Lilah, I'm waiting to hear your "healthy" and "noble" reasons for dressing. Now that you've trashed all of the dirty, unhealthy, hobby and fetish CD's.
RS

www.myspace.com/robertsherry

YES!! Finally, a little fire on the boards! Conflict is good; it galvanizes us in our beliefs, strengthens them, forces us to think through our views; confrontation is nothing to run from, but should be embraced.... within reason.

I was referring strictly to those who dress up just as a sexual fetish; maybe it's my exposure to feminism showing through, but I truly believe that those who only do this for sexual reasons are objectifying women, lowering them to the status of sexual objects.

Let's think about this for a second: someone dresses up as a woman (let's say something nice and kinky, PVC or leather maybe.. or maybe a teddy? Something nice and ****ty...), do their deed with another or by themselves, then revert to strictly male mode, without retaining any feminine qualities.

Please, tell me how this is not just a little crass, a little crude and degrading to women.

I'm here seeking knowledge and knowledge is the only purpose of my being here, for good or ill.. If I'm completely wrong, I want to know in as clear words as possible. Forgive me if I seem prejudice, insensitive and judgemental.. I'm not in any way looking down on hobbyist CDs.. after all, maybe they had a messed up relationship with their mother and this is a healthy way to reframe their feelings about their feminine side.

And once again: I was strictly referring to those who dress as a ****, seek pleasure and go back to their hetero male selves. This is coming from someone who is a hobbyist CD theirself.

[docrobbysherry]

YES!! Finally, a little fire on the boards! Conflict is good; it galvanizes us in our beliefs, strengthens them, forces us to think through our views; confrontation is nothing to run from, but should be embraced.... within reason.

I was referring strictly to those who dress up just as a sexual fetish; maybe it's my exposure to feminism showing through, but I truly believe that those who only do this for sexual reasons are objectifying women, lowering them to the status of sexual objects.

Let's think about this for a second: someone dresses up as a woman (let's say something nice and kinky, PVC or leather maybe.. or maybe a teddy? Something nice and ****ty...), do their deed with another or by themselves, then revert to strictly male mode, without retaining any feminine qualities.

Please, tell me how this is not just a little crass, a little crude and degrading to women.

I'm here seeking knowledge and knowledge is the only purpose of my being here, for good or ill.. If I'm completely wrong, I want to know in as clear words as possible. Forgive me if I seem prejudice, insensitive and judgemental.. I'm not in any way looking down on hobbyist CDs.. after all, maybe they had a messed up relationship with their mother and this is a healthy way to reframe their feelings about their feminine side.

And once again: I was strictly referring to those who dress as a ****, seek pleasure and go back to their hetero male selves. This is coming from someone who is a hobbyist CD theirself.

Lilah, bear with me for a moment. There is some truth to what u r saying. However, I think u may be missing some things.

We live in a sexist society, and all of us have been subjected to sexist attitudes our whole lives. Is it any wonder that we r all sexist, to some degree
or other? Going further; isn't it true everyone here dresses for sexist reasons? If not, we would put on whatever clothes were handy and not notice the difference, wouldn't we?

Now, some here dress for immediate sexual gratification, others for a variety of other reasons. I fail to see why any one reason for dressing is better or worse than any other. Whether u r wearing a bikini or a house dress, if it makes u happy, for WHATEVER reason, why is one bad and the other somehow better? All the reasons r sexist!

After my divorce, I thought I was thru with women AND with sex. After I became Sherry, I discovered I liked women AND I seem to have discovered the fountain of youth, as regards the other matter! Some people may feel guilty from their dressing, but not me. I think it is odd, a bit weird, but I'm not hurting anyone with it, and it has kept me feeling younger than I thought possible. Nothing anyone can say would make me feel bad about Sherry becoming a harem girl and me having my way with her! U may feel entirely different, that is your problem.

Finally, u say that dressing for gratification objectifies women to some degree. I cannot argue with that. However, I acknowledge that defect in my character. I don't like that I can see them in that way. But, I can no more change the way I look at women, than I can the color of my skin. Altho I am trying to! I do NOT think I'm alone in this. Ok, there's my 2 cents, whew!
RS

www.myspace.com/robertsherry

[sterling12]

I think that once we accept ourselves, we then fall somewhere within The TG Spectrum. That spectrum is all inclusive, but it's highly individualized. Inotherwords, we are all in the same boat, some are paddling, some are sleeping, some are doing things differently. The point is that we are all in that same boat! Call it The Transgendered Boat.

And that is why I take umbrage with Lilah. Lilah, in two different messages you used the phrase JUST a CD, and JUST a Fetish Transvestite. You imply that somehow your calling is more noble, more worthwhile. Please get over it! Wherever you are at, your still in that same boat as the rest of us. Wherever you go, you will still be in that same boat. I have been around TS Groups and persons who use those kinds of phrases much too much. "Your just a CD!" Instead of identifying commonalities, they choose divisiveness. Today, more than ever "marginalized people," need to try and understand one another and pull together.

You can call yourself whatever you want, just try to remember that your also TG, and that's something you need to celebrate! Hopefully, you can celebrate it with us lowly CDs.

Peace and Love, Joanie

[LeeAnn_cd]

I too also read that same thing and thought it also. If I may I am going to quote from a website that gives definitions of each term.

Transgendered or TG - Dead simple, anyone involved in activities which cross normal accepted social boundaries of gender behavior can be said to be transgendered or crossing gender boundaries. That could be as clear and radical as physically altering one's body with anything from clothing and make up to surgery and hormones. Or it could be as subtle and hidden as the way you think.



Transexual (transsexual) or TS - To be Transexual means that you fundamentally view yourself as being of the opposite sex to your physical body. You could have a male body with a female mind, this is called Male to Female Transexual (often abbreviated MtF or MtoF). There is also the reverse, a person born with a female body and a male mind. This is Female to Male or FtoM. In fact this condition affects not only Humans but animals too. Although it's exact causes are yet to be conclusively understood, current medical knowledge classes Transexualism as a birth defect. A part of the individuals brain which deals with gender is formed as that of the opposite sex to the physical body. Fortunately this condition is relatively rare and whilst transexualism certainly isn't the norm, it is a natural phenomena and definitely isn't invented or "chosen".

Transvestite, tranny or TV - A transvestite is a person who chooses to outwardly express their inner feelings through their appearance. They could be male or female yet have the desire to show their feminine or masculine nature through dress. Think of it this way. You have a line numbered from 1 to 100. 1 is 100% female and 100 is 100% male. The majority of people would be a comfortable mixture of both genders in the way they think - say 90% male, 10% female. However, some people have a strong feminine or masculine side, maybe 60-40. Having this stronger leaning within they may feel unable to express themselves fully within the constraints of their day-to-day gender and so find release in spending time within the opposite gender role.
By far the majority of Transvestites are heterosexual, marry and live otherwise "normal" lives save the odd girls night out at a TV club or group or they dress at home. The majority of Transvestites do not take their need for expression into their sex lives and topics on discussion at TV groups are normally very clean, along the lines of a woman's magazine - make up, dressing nicely, where to shop for bargains etc.


Cross Dresser or CD - Whilst most Transgendered groups could be considered as a form of cross dressing, within the TG community Cross Dressing is often seen as something more specific; it's when dressing is done for sexual pleasure. It often centers on wearing more intimate apparel such as lingerie or underwear, as well as fetish wear like PVC or leather. There can be a huge gulf in outlook between a Transvestite and a Cross Dresser since the Cross Dresser is motivated by sex, whilst the transvestite is motivated by the need for expression. Therefore Cross Dressers may not feel the need to look convincing or act in anyway like a female would.
For some cross dressing can be part of a complex about their sexual orientation - some people cannot accept themselves to be bisexual or gay and so cross dress because the thin veil of the woman's role allows them to act out fantasies that their own mental conditioning is at odds with. It's basically like saying to yourself it's OK for me to be having sex with a man because at the moment I'm a woman.





With this in mind I would not then consider myself as a crossdresser I would consider myself as a Transvestite.


All this information can be found at http://www.danistroom.com/inspirations/help/transgendered-terms-definitions.htm









I have always thought and read that a CD was one who does not do it all of the time, And that TG = Trans Gender was nothing more than an umbrella term, given to those who Dress. A Tranvestite is one who dresses all of the time, and a Transexual is one who has gone.. "All the way". A Drag Queen does it for acting. A ******* is one who looks totally female except she is a Male. That is all I have ever thought about it, But dont LABELS just suck for the MOST part?? We are all Human after all, Except Those who are Predjudous, racist, Judgemental and insensitive.. :2c:

[melissaK]

Oooo, this thread makes my head hurt. Should come with a university credit in anthropology or sociology or perhaps logic. Might need to come with a compass too as I detect some drift from the point of the original post. :heehee:

For me, CD isn't a test, it isn't a walk on the wild side. I knew I was TS at 14or so. Didn't dare do anything about it for all the usual reasons, and now CDing en femme is stolen moments of who I really am; I mean for me dressing en homme (that the right opposite?) is like cross-dressing. I did spend a year or two trying to tell my SO I was "just a CDer," but my SO didn't buy it - she knows what's in my heart of hearts. Kinda sad I suppose. :sad: But please, no tears, I got a lot of good things in the trade-off - wonderful SO, kids, grandkids, professional success in a male field.

Hugs,
'lissa

[Lucy Bright]

Do not mean to interrupt this thread. Since I am one of 3 people who do not text or use abbreviations much, I have seen INMHO or variations of it on this site. What does it stand for?

Sarah

In My Not So Humble Opinion, I think. And variations thereof.

[charllote34]

Having no wish to lose my "pride and joy" i am more than happy being cd and no wish to be ts

[Lucy Bright]

I too also read that same thing and thought it also. If I may I am going to quote from a website that gives definitions of each term.

The definitions are interesting, but it makes it pretty clear that people are using these terms in quite inconsistent ways! Elsewhere for example (possibly on this site) I've read that cross dresser and transvestite are synonymous (one is just a Latin version of the other, after all) but that cross-dresser was now the 'preferred' term.

I guess language often behaves like this when there's the possibility of offence being taken, and when medical and social ideas about what's involved are rapidly evolving. Eventually it'll sort itself out, maybe, but in the meantime we just have to be careful to say what we mean...

Kisses,

Lucy

[Patti Girl]

The definitions are interesting, but it makes it pretty clear that people are using these terms in quite inconsistent ways!

Bingo! Give that lady a prize! :)

As far as I can tell, there is tremendous variation in how people view the terminology. I once had a person jump on me (in a yahoo group) because I described myself as CD/TG. I then quote the Wikipedia defintion of TG (which is broadly inclusive) and I never heard another word from him.

Bottom line, I have come to understand there is a tremendous amount of variability among those of us who don't fit the absolute binary male/female expectations of "normal" society. There are many variations in people here on this board and I expect that some of us will change and vary over time as we learn about transgender and about ourselves.

AND there are very different interpetations of the various terms and definitions. So we have to be flexible and recognize that what one person calls one thing, may mean something very different to someone else. There are no clear, broadly accepted and understood definitions of the various terms.

Myself, I feel I am "somewhere inbetween" and I'm becoming more comfortable with it. Of course, the support and encouragement of my wife helps a lot!

I find the Dr. Harry Benjamin Gender Disorientation Scale http://www.genderpsychology.org/transsexual/benjamin_gd.html to be useful.

Patti

[Lucy Bright]

I think you are what some refer to as a "gender bender". You don't want to be defined as male or female and prefer to show attributes of both at the same time.

IDIC

Thanks, Sally. I've heard that term, but kind of associated it with people like David Bowie who deliberately play with gender expectations in their self-presentation. I suppose what makes me a little uncomfortable with it is the implication of choice - as if I'd made a decision to bend my gender, whereas most of the time it feels more like it's bending me! Mind you, I quite like the idea of a television show called Avatar - the Last Gender Bender! Wouldn't that be fun? :heehee:

Kisses,

Lucy

[sybercom11]

CD is how you dress on the outside. TS is how you feel inside. You can be one without being the other. CD will not lead one to become ts, however most ts are at least part time cd, or are going crazy trying to avoid it. Accept yourself for who you are, and I will accept you, regardless of labels.

PJ



This is exactly how I understand the difference based on what I have experienced and what I have read from the experts.

If you feel that you are truly transgendered, you do not necessarily have to dress up. I for one do not go around in a dress and high heels and makeup and lots of red lipstick in public. But I am no less transgendered that most crossdressers. I feel transgendered when I wear ordinary clothes -- and I do wear the feminine version in most cases, such as for jeans, shorts, shoes, tops, etc. I just don't go out all dolled up like I mentioned above. Again, I am no less transgendered.

Right now as I am sitting her typing this I am wearing sort of a juniors lounge set, shorts with a silly design on them and a tank top. Something you can also sleep in. Of course, I am shaved smooth all over, but I don't have on a wig or makeup. A nice scent though.

I remember when I was a youth there was that sexual thrill, but that has long passed. I am wearing what I think I should be wearing based on my inner thoughts and feelings.

Also, I seem to recall reading that the experts consider the girls who have had SRS to be transsexual and all others to be transgendered, including pre-op girls and CDs. But even different experts say different things.


stevie

[DonnaT]

I was born TG (transgendered), then, to satisfy some unexplainable urge (now known as being trans), I started CDing at around age 10, but had felt the need at around age 6, just never had the chance.

[Michelia]

YOU ARE WRONG!

Is this clear enough?

You are trashing people you do not understand. You may be seeking to better understand through debate, but you are going about it the WRONG way. You will not get people engeged in a serious debate when you are coming at them from such a judgemental point of view.

Allow me to remind you you are entitled to your point of view. And it is all a matter of perspective and relevance. In the eyes of the world all of us crossdressers are wrong and perverted. You are being just as critical with some of us.

We've heard it all before.

Enough

Michelia

[LilahCD]

I was going to use this space for an apology, but I think I've said enough.. even if I completely lacked the sense to know when to shut it, having a thread of mine deleted in The Lounge should clue even the biggest idiot in.

From now on, if I have an issue with someone I'll keep it to PM or Y!/MSN/etc IM

[Julogden]

I too also read that same thing and thought it also. If I may I am going to quote from a website that gives definitions of each term.

Transgendered or TG - Dead simple, anyone involved in activities which cross normal accepted social boundaries of gender behavior can be said to be transgendered or crossing gender boundaries. That could be as clear and radical as physically altering one's body with anything from clothing and make up to surgery and hormones. Or it could be as subtle and hidden as the way you think.



Transexual (transsexual) or TS - To be Transexual means that you fundamentally view yourself as being of the opposite sex to your physical body. You could have a male body with a female mind, this is called Male to Female Transexual (often abbreviated MtF or MtoF). There is also the reverse, a person born with a female body and a male mind. This is Female to Male or FtoM. In fact this condition affects not only Humans but animals too. Although it's exact causes are yet to be conclusively understood, current medical knowledge classes Transexualism as a birth defect. A part of the individuals brain which deals with gender is formed as that of the opposite sex to the physical body. Fortunately this condition is relatively rare and whilst transexualism certainly isn't the norm, it is a natural phenomena and definitely isn't invented or "chosen".

Transvestite, tranny or TV - A transvestite is a person who chooses to outwardly express their inner feelings through their appearance. They could be male or female yet have the desire to show their feminine or masculine nature through dress. Think of it this way. You have a line numbered from 1 to 100. 1 is 100% female and 100 is 100% male. The majority of people would be a comfortable mixture of both genders in the way they think - say 90% male, 10% female. However, some people have a strong feminine or masculine side, maybe 60-40. Having this stronger leaning within they may feel unable to express themselves fully within the constraints of their day-to-day gender and so find release in spending time within the opposite gender role.
By far the majority of Transvestites are heterosexual, marry and live otherwise "normal" lives save the odd girls night out at a TV club or group or they dress at home. The majority of Transvestites do not take their need for expression into their sex lives and topics on discussion at TV groups are normally very clean, along the lines of a woman's magazine - make up, dressing nicely, where to shop for bargains etc.


Cross Dresser or CD - Whilst most Transgendered groups could be considered as a form of cross dressing, within the TG community Cross Dressing is often seen as something more specific; it's when dressing is done for sexual pleasure. It often centers on wearing more intimate apparel such as lingerie or underwear, as well as fetish wear like PVC or leather. There can be a huge gulf in outlook between a Transvestite and a Cross Dresser since the Cross Dresser is motivated by sex, whilst the transvestite is motivated by the need for expression. Therefore Cross Dressers may not feel the need to look convincing or act in anyway like a female would.
For some cross dressing can be part of a complex about their sexual orientation - some people cannot accept themselves to be bisexual or gay and so cross dress because the thin veil of the woman's role allows them to act out fantasies that their own mental conditioning is at odds with. It's basically like saying to yourself it's OK for me to be having sex with a man because at the moment I'm a woman.





With this in mind I would not then consider myself as a crossdresser I would consider myself as a Transvestite.


All this information can be found at http://www.danistroom.com/inspirations/help/transgendered-terms-definitions.htm


Hi LeAnn,

Take a look at Dani's disclaimer at the top of the page you linked to: "Before I start, I best say that these aren't Oxford English Dictionary definitions of Transgender Groups. To some a word may connotate more or less and so these are the definitions I use in lieu of the world actually having any decent ones!". So quoting anything from that page as if it was an "official" definition is not a good idea, as those words are just the opinion of one person.

This all points out the futility of trying to nail down hard boundaries for any of us.

Regarding the definitions of transvestite, it was originally an umbrella term, basically a synonym for the current "transgender", and was coined by Magnus Hirschfield in a book he published in 1910.

I've recently given up on defining most of these terms. It's basically useless to try to define "crossdresser" or "transvestite", as there's a large range of people with a huge range of behaviors and presentations who self-identify as either crossdresser or transvestite and each seems to have their own definition of terms.

No two people are exactly alike anyway, so even if two people agree on definitions and both identify as the same group or variety of TG-dom, they are still each bringing their own unique twist on gender expression and sexuality to the table, so they're not exactly the same.

I personally feel that "Transgender" as a term does have value to denote anyone who wants to or actually does present themself, publicly or privately, in dress or behavior, in a manner opposite of that which society considers appropriate for their genetic sex, for reasons of gender identity expression or for sexual gratification. Some dress for completely non-sexual reasons, some dress only for sexual reasons, but most seem to be somewhere in between.

"Transexual" is more difficult to define, as bad or worse than transvestite or crossdresser, and I'm not about to try to define transexual. I've seen TS's labeled as as pre-op, post-op, non-op, androphilic and autogynephilic. Gets my head spinning, and I'm sure there are varieties I'm missing there too.

So anyway, I'm fairly comfortable with using the TG term as a reference to all of us, but getting more specific than that with labels is just asking for trouble in many, maybe most, instances.

Carol

[Nicki B]

A label thread - always a good way to have an explosive argument... :rolleyes:


IME the best thing to do is avoid them - particularly sub-divisions (so you're a TV, not a CD???).

However, CD is much more widely used in the US than elsewhere - my understanding was always that it was originally a creation of Tri-Ess, to try and distance themselves from connotations they didn't like?



'Tranny' can also be used as a diminutive for TG - it's a bit like the N-word, it can be taken as offensive when used by someone outside the community, but doesn't have to be seen so inside it - but some people (particularly those identifying as TS) can get upset if they think they're being called TV...

Perhaps we should all agree to use 'trans' - or maybe that's still a step too far... :hiding:


But one thing I have learnt is never 'label' anyone else - let them do it themselves.

[LaFem]

I just want add something; getting dressed, getting off, feeling ashamed, ripping your girl clothes off and trying not to hate yourself, is a very common "phase" for many TV\CDs. I would even venture to say, based on reading this forum, that it is almost universal. I also think that very few CD\TVs actually get permanently stuck in that condition.

When you start to accept yourself, through knowledge, thinking, and experience, this phase passes, at least it did for me and many others I have read about on this forum. I love the eroticism of dressing and acting like a woman, and I never want to give up that wonderful swishy sexy feeling. I stopped feeling ashamed a long time ago. I stay in female mode for days.

I love labels, I like to know the price and the size of everything. Labels help us identify who we are, to ourselves and the world. The problem arises when we don't like our label, and we are not honest about our true feelings and who we really are.

There are no second class CD\TVs. We all get off on it, we all share this little hobby, and sex is a big part of it., alone or with someone. Admitting it is totally personal, and up to the individual. It is my choice to believe or not believe what is said, as it is yours.

Docrobbysherry rocks!

[wishonastar]

This was not a thread on the difference between CD, TG and TS.

I guess I meant when does crossdressing becomes someone who wants to change gender in one degree or another?

Example some crossdressers get real breasts but that is as far as they go.

TG and TS are changing in definitions. TS is a person going in gender transition. The so called experts are trying to get the sex out of Trans-sexual to be politically correct. Just like the question “what is you sex” is being replaced by “what is your gender”.
Sex is a verb, Gender is a noun.

Some terms in change.

Transvestite is seen as a sexual fetish is being replaced with Crossdressing.
Most CD’ers do not want the label transvestite.

Transsexual being replaced by Transgendered, seen as the same.

However it seems that TS is now becoming its own definition over TG.

Again from my experience TG it politically correct and TS is not but both mean the same.

You can look TG and TS up and get different definitions in just about every location, including the medical experts. It will take years for the new definitions to be accepted if they stabilize which I doubt.

[Nicki B]

Like it or not, you started with labels? :strugglin

You're trying to put people in separate boxes, when actually we're on a continuum (and we can move, over time)?

But can I point you back to my post #5 (I've added italics)?
TS, for that subset who specifically need medical intervention?



And sex and gender can both be nouns??? :confused:

[bonita]

Thank you for asking that question because not that I want to label people but because you give me more insight and understanding from the responses.

[wishonastar]

Thank you for asking that question because not that I want to label people but because you give me more insight and understanding from the responses.

I just wanted to brain storm. But it went in the wrong way.

Yes they are labels. So why do we have to have labels. Ask the government?

Nicki B

TS, for that subset who specifically need medical intervention?
The problem for some of us "needing" and getting is not the same. I have no intention of changing gender, but I should, I think. I am not happy with my body or its parts. But I a perfectionist I would rather be a "full" man physically than a man made women! Hope that does not offend anyone!

Nicki B
In the US it is being politically correct. Not such a problem in the UK, lucky you.

"In my opinion the US is (politically correcting) it's self to death!"

So here they are trying to get the sex out of gender and keep it just "a thing to do". Not correct for me that that is they way things are going here.

Maybe when they can grow my girl parts I might change my mind!

[bonita]

Thank you all. I am learning much that I need to because I am in love with a wonderful man who feels good when he is enfemme.

[wishonastar]

I end this thread with this.


SOME terms for gender bending!

You pick your definitions it is to confusing for me.

This does not include the sexual orientation terms, that is just another can of worms I do not what to open!

Transvestite
Transgender
Transsexual
Tranny
*******
Ladyboy
Drag queen
Drag king
Crossdresser
Female impersonator
Sex change
Gender change
Gender confusion
Gender disphoria
Gender bender
gender identity disorder
Transwomen
Transmen
Klinefelter syndrome, XXY chromosomes
Turner syndrome
Androgenous
Hermaphrodite
Intersex
Intergender
Third gender
Third sex

[desireehelene]

Crossdressing is something we do.
Transgender is who we are.

Any questions?

Class?

Class?

Bueller?

[wishonastar]

Crossdressing is something we do.
Transgender is who we are.

Any questions?

Class?

Class?

Bueller?

But most crossdressers are not transgendered or transexual, or want to be women, they just like to wear womens clothes once in a while!

[Nicki B]

INicki B

TS, for that subset who specifically need medical intervention?
The problem for some of us "needing" and getting is not the same. I have no intention of changing gender, but I should, I think. I am not happy with my body or its parts. But I a perfectionist I would rather be a "full" man physically than a man made women! Hope that does not offend anyone!

Perhaps you should just change your sex, so that it better matches your gender?




Nicki B
In the US it is being politically correct. Not such a problem in the UK, lucky you.

"In my opinion the US is (politically correcting) it's self to death!"

I'm not sure what you are replying to, here... :idontknow:




So here they are trying to get the sex out of gender and keep it just "a thing to do". Not correct for me that that is they way things are going here.

Maybe when they can grow my girl parts I might change my mind!

How are you using the terms sex and gender?

To me, sex is about male and female body parts (or plumbing). It's about mechanics. Gender is masculine and feminine (and is language) - it's about emotion and feelings?

You can go and have very good surgery, nowadays? :confused:



But most crossdressers are not transgendered or transexual, or want to be women, they just like to wear womens clothes once in a while!

I think that's a huge assumption - but, how do you define transgendered? I'd use it to describe anyone with any degree of dysphoria..

[Niya W]

whoa when did TG=TS. For me TG has always covered the spectrum. Funny to see people throwing labels around, in a need to defining things. I'm tired of being labeled by society. The need for others to be able to put me in this nice neat mental box with a label. I am me .

As for who I am I'm trans women and proud of it.

[silkenhose]

ok, now i am confused and a little put off.

i thought i was a transvestite, i like to dress for sexual reasons.....healthy sexual reasons. I do not want to be a women however i like dressing up like a women and being controlled. it all started with wearing pantyhose when i was young, then moved to panties, heels, then skirts, then dresses as i entered adulthood. this all happened over a long period of time as i became more comfortable that i was not "wierd" which leads me to the "put off" part. My SO is dominant, i when dressed am submissive, we have an absolutely wonderful time. We are not hurting anyone so why would this be considered "unhealthy". it would be if it was hurting someone, which it is not.

even though my dressing has gone from one item to many i do not think i am on any path of wanting to become a women, come to think of it if i do not have pantyhose in the mix none of it works for me?

one last note after i dress and "get off" as decribed in one other post i do not feel quilty or embarrased....anymore....years of therapy have helped me to realize what i like doing is healthy:tongueout

[LeeAnn_cd]

I did not quote it as official definition I heard, and read this sort of information from more then one place here on the web, tv, and read it from different books all the same sort of information. I only used this website only because it had the easiest to understand definitions. But yes I would have to quote since I am using someone elses words.




Hi LeAnn,

Take a look at Dani's disclaimer at the top of the page you linked to: "Before I start, I best say that these aren't Oxford English Dictionary definitions of Transgender Groups. To some a word may connotate more or less and so these are the definitions I use in lieu of the world actually having any decent ones!". So quoting anything from that page as if it was an "official" definition is not a good idea, as those words are just the opinion of one person.

This all points out the futility of trying to nail down hard boundaries for any of us.

Regarding the definitions of transvestite, it was originally an umbrella term, basically a synonym for the current "transgender", and was coined by Magnus Hirschfield in a book he published in 1910.

I've recently given up on defining most of these terms. It's basically useless to try to define "crossdresser" or "transvestite", as there's a large range of people with a huge range of behaviors and presentations who self-identify as either crossdresser or transvestite and each seems to have their own definition of terms.

No two people are exactly alike anyway, so even if two people agree on definitions and both identify as the same group or variety of TG-dom, they are still each bringing their own unique twist on gender expression and sexuality to the table, so they're not exactly the same.

I personally feel that "Transgender" as a term does have value to denote anyone who wants to or actually does present themself, publicly or privately, in dress or behavior, in a manner opposite of that which society considers appropriate for their genetic sex, for reasons of gender identity expression or for sexual gratification. Some dress for completely non-sexual reasons, some dress only for sexual reasons, but most seem to be somewhere in between.

"Transexual" is more difficult to define, as bad or worse than transvestite or crossdresser, and I'm not about to try to define transexual. I've seen TS's labeled as as pre-op, post-op, non-op, androphilic and autogynephilic. Gets my head spinning, and I'm sure there are varieties I'm missing there too.

So anyway, I'm fairly comfortable with using the TG term as a reference to all of us, but getting more specific than that with labels is just asking for trouble in many, maybe most, instances.

Carol

[Patti Girl]

But most crossdressers are not transgendered or transexual, or want to be women, they just like to wear womens clothes once in a while!

I don't think ANYONE KNOWS what most crossdressers want, since many (probably a large majority) keep their activities private.

I doubt that anyone even has a clue as to how many crossdressers there are, much less their reasons. How many crossdressers are going to honestly answer a survey? LOL!

Patti

[Denise Barrett]

Wow. What a great discussion. TV, TG, TS, CD, BVD, the only letters I’m interested in are TGIF. :happy: As many of you have said, in various ways, and in various forums, if it makes you happy, if it makes you feel good, if it makes you feel like the person you are inside, then it’s right. So why do you need to label it?

It is fun to read, but what I'm learning isn't so much about the labels as much as it is about you ladies.:hugs:

With much love and respect for you all,
Denise

[Kristen Kelly]

[QUOTE]

who in there right frame of mind would want to TEST out becoming a Trans woman or trans man This is something we are born with



i just wish i was normal
... you know we all have a life that we chose ... but how many of us get to relay live

Now there MJ we are normal it's the world that is not right, not in my life I would not give this up for anything to be "NORMAL", this is a blessing to be able to understand women how many "Normal men" can say they can do that.

[Patti Girl]

So why do you need to label it?

Denise,

Labels can help us understand where someone is coming from and what all this means to them. For example, if someone says that they are a post op TS, then I understand that their comments and viewpoints are likely to differ from the way I see (and need) things. OTOH, if someone says that they only dress up once a month for sexual kinks, well, that again is a different need and perspective.

Labels are useful as a way of communicating if we understand them and are not judgmental. They can also help avoid arguments by helping us understand each other's position.

At least that's my two cents worth :) And yes, you have your TGIF although that's not important to me, I'm retired so every day is Saturday, LOL.

hugs,

Patti

[wishonastar]

How are you using the terms sex and gender?

To me, sex is about male and female body parts (or plumbing). It's about mechanics. Gender is masculine and feminine (and is language) - it's about emotion and feelings?

Yes that is right, but in the US they are trying to change that. Saying “what is your sex” instead of your gender is now politically incorrect. That is why they are replacing transsexual with transgendered, because the word transsexual is becoming politically incorrect.

They are trying to restrict the word SEX as the act of making love not gender that is they are trying replace the word sex with gender. At least that is what I feel is going on from the change in the forms in the last 20+ years.

You in UK do not see this but it is in our faces every time we fill out a form.

"In my opinion the US is (politically correcting) it's self to death!"

That is because the government is going out of the way to make everyone happy by making everything, every statement, every form “politically correct”. Again you do not see that in the UK, lucky you. But here it is a problem.

On en.wikipedia.org “politically incorrect” is used to refer to language or ideas that may cause offense or that are unconstrained by orthodoxy.

I still feel we are in the US are (politically correct) are selves to death because of this obsession not to upset any group. Just read the US newspapers. “Example West Side Story would not be politically correct today. I very much doubt it would be remade because of that. If it is they would have to remove the ethnic part somehow. But on Broadway you can get away with it! Saying that there are more blacks in prison than whites or more white homeless would not be politically correct. True or not! I will not make any more examples because it will just make this thread a fight.

Yes this politically correctness is insane. It makes us afraid of saying anything because it will offend some group, even if what you say is 100% correct. I work at a college and have to be very careful because of the fear of being sued.

That is why I say "In my opinion the US is (politically correcting) it's self to death!" and it will get worse.

I hope UK does not get into this politically incorrectness mess!

As far as “most crossdressers”. Surveys in the US find that most are heterosexual men that do not what to be women. I have seen percentages of men that CD in about 20% of the male population. Most are married, they dress because they like the clothes, to relax or just for a sexual turn on, and the list goes on. There are many CD sites you can search. This one seems to be mostly people that are tansgendered/transsexual. I have been reading it for a while but never felt like posting.

In the end it is labels. Why do we need them? I do not like labels. You are who you are who cares what the world labels you as!

By the way in my opinion a TG person is not crossdressing because they are women with a defect “a male body”.

We are not disagreeing it is just a definition and "culture" difference. I am 1/4 British and 1/4 Irish so I am a bit in touch with the UK and the differences.:love:

[LaFem]

Don't ever quote Wikipedia. It is not a valid source, it's only a place to start.

[DeniseNJ]

My 02 cents in this nickel conversation. {It is what it is} Many girls in here had said in the past {If I had been born a girl I would had been a lesbian... As for me I truely believe woman are the true essence of Beauty. I dress, not only because I enjoy it but because I wish I had been born a girl. Guys don't do anything for me , I think guys are DRAB but seeing a pretty cd /ts tv ******* I see a work of art. And yes we are all entitled to our opinion I commend those special girls that take it a little further than most . , I mean if society would not judge ////how many of you crossdressers out there would alter their bodys to appear more feminine. I would love to have a nice large (C) cup to wear nice lacy bra's and show great cleavage.., with that said enjoy life and admire those the push the boundries , for it makes our dreams a little easier to achieve. Some may never fulfill their dreams while others will. We share a common passion, lets not let our opinions get into debate..

[lizbendalin]

Interesting how many times a similar thread has appeared here over time. It seems that as much as many of us hate labels, or disagree with them; we all have a strong opinion on them. I wish that in some way the dressing community (whether for erotic reasons, fun, expression of an inner self, expression of a true self, or for whatever reason) could come to some agreement on the terminology. I think that if we could all be on the same page term-wise, we would be better able to explain who we are to the public in a less confusing way.

[sissy_she_boy]

It seems to me for many CDing is a "test" or a step to TG.

Any thought on this?

IMHO, one becomes a TS when he/she gives up her male or female identity to become the opposite sex. There are many GG's that have become men and many men that have become women. Until one makes that commitment, you can consider yourself to be a CD, TV or whatever else you prefer to call yourself. There is nothing wrong or abnormal about being any of the above mentioned. However, it is very hard to make that final transition to becoming a fulltime female. I know a few girls that have made the commitment and it has been very difficult for all of them. Once you transition, you have to be prepared to give up just about everything. In some cases that means your family and your profession. In one extreme case she gave up her whole family as well as a great profession. This girl was very successful as a man, and while I don't know exactly what she was worth. I do know that she had a really nice home that was worth over a million dollars and I am pretty sure that her income was over 500K a year and maybe more. Once she transitioned, she lost all of her clients, her business eventually went under, she sold her house and now lives in an apartment with a man that is F2M. Even though she lost everything, I think she is happy that she is finally living as a woman.

kisses
sissy dana

[CamillaCD]

Just to comment the post by wishonastar. Here in Norway the label transsexual has been replaced by transgendered for several years.

[Monique Althea]

I've given up on the labels. Two years ago, when I finally acknowledged my dressing, I was told that the "TG" label was the "umbrella" term for the entire CD/TS community, and that I should consider terms like "transvestite" and "*******" to be highly offensive. Fair enough (I guess--to me "crossdresser" vs. "transvestite" is sort of like to-may-to/to-mah-to)

I didn't think about it until a year later when, in talking to...er...a person who was in the process of getting a sexchange to become a woman told me that she preferred the term "transgendered" to "transsexual" because she wasn't changing her sexuality, she was changing her gender. Again...fair enough.

Ultimately, I've found that none of these labels really matter. Say I decide whether I am TG or TS (as opposed to CD versus TV). Then I have to announce whether I am pre-op or post-op, not to mention the fact that a pre-op TS or TG goes from gay to straight when he/she transitions--or from straight to gay?

But then, back to the CD (or TV, as the case may be.) Is it a fetish or not a fetish? Is it about sissification? Getting tied up? Domination or submission? Top or bottom? Pitching or catching? Let's face it--I've learned wayyyyy more than I ever wanted to know about ways of having sex that never would have occurred to me on my own.

So I've stopped caring about using said labels any more than necessary. For clarification's sake, I'll just stick to the tried-and-true CD and TS (with both being TG) and if that offends anybody, so be it.

In the meantime, the one label that I'd really prefer for myself would have to be..."beautiful" *sigh*