Passing in Public as a Woman; Guys there is hope

[Megan70]

Dear Sisters of the forum, especially those whom venture out:
I feel I must add my two cents:2c: on the subject of "Passing As A Women". I am a 50ish CD who has been going out dressed in public now for over 40 years, since my early teens. Sometimes I get "read" as we say, but most of the time I don't. Its because I've spent years perfecting my art as passing naturally as a woman an not to come of as a buffoon caricature of one. .. I want to blend in unnoticed and not be stared at or go for the big shock value. That ruins the whole thrill of the "acting" part passing naturally.
CD's will never pass 100% of the time, but the objective here is to minimize it as much as possible. The scenario of going out for 3 hours to the mall or shopping center and behaving and shopping exactly as a woman would, and fool everyone is a thrill beyond belief. CD's must remember however that to minimize being spotted they have a few things they MUST do.

1) Dress appropriately for the place you are walking around at-No silk blouse, miniskirt, black hose or high heels when you go to the mall or grocery store or shopping center. You'll be spotted in a second and probably be laughed at. Wear what others are wearing in that particular palce-like jeans and sweatshirt in the mall, look around you will see no legs showing .

2) Walk out the door with confidence and your head held high and don't slouch and stare at the ground avoiding eye contact. Its shows you/re afraid of something , mainly yourself.
I as a CD want to look and act like a woman occasionally because I emulate you so much. I admire woman and respect them that I want to look, act and feel"pretty" like them albeit for just a few hours. I often have to explain to women I meet in bars or clubs the huge difference between a drag queen and a cross dresser. Most don't have a clue. When they find out that I've been married for over 30 years and my wife knows of and accepting of my behavior they can't believe it. They always think I'm gay. The professional drag queens that I've talked to cannot,for the life of them understand why a heterosexual male would enjoy and get sexual and emotional gratication from wearing women's clothes. They do it as a performer, paid role-playing and performing for the money for a few hours at a club.,. They would never think of dressing up in women's attire at home on their own. I quess what I'm saying is that I wish I could experience for 24 hours in all ways what it would truly be like to live as a real woman. also. Here's to admiration to the beautiful gentle sex of the planet who gets all the fun looking pretty and feminine.

Megan:happy:

[michellebesweet]

Your comments were very well said.

[Rachel Morley]

Hi Megan,

A lot of what you said makes sense to me especially:


I want to blend in unnoticed and not be stared at or go for the big shock value. That ruins the whole thrill of the "acting" part passing naturally.
I do like to dress to blend in whenever possible. If nothing happens and I get nothing but a few "knowing smiles" then I'm happy.

The scenario of going out for 3 hours to the mall or shopping center and behaving and shopping exactly as a woman would, and fool everyone is a thrill beyond belief. I don't get a thrill because I seemingly fool everyone but it is a thrill for me if people treat me just exactly as if I was a woman. In other words they treat me and GGs the same.

I admire women and respect them that I want to look, act and feel"pretty" like them albeit for just a few hours.
Feeling pretty is what it's all about for me. That's one of the reasons I like to wear feminine clothes in (girly) boy mode because I like to "feel" pretty.

I guess what I'm saying is that I wish I could experience for 24 hours in all ways what it would truly be like to live as a real woman.
I would truly love to actually really know what it is really like to be a real woman. But of course that will never happen. However, the next best thing is trying to pass well. This is fairly important to me because if people believe you are "apparently" a woman then how they treat you will more likely be how they might genuinely treat a real woman. This might not necessarily be a good thing (misogynistic guys) but at least we'll (somewhat) learn what it "might be like" in the real world for women ... and I'm betting that it is not always a bed of roses. Having said that, I'd still like to be treated as though I'm female.

Hugs
Rachel

[mike47]

I fully agree. It would be great to do that. I don't believe that I could do it as we speak right now but who knows maybe someday.

[Brenda1423]

Megan,

That was about the best and most inforamtive post I've read in a long time. Thanks,
Brenda xxoo

[Samantha43]

Very well said.

[windycissy]

Thank you for one of the more intelligent and uplifting posts on this subject...I agree with all that you've said. Although if I had to limit myself to jeans and sweatshirts to maximize my ability to blend, dressing would get pretty boring. So I seek out places where well-dressed women actually wear skirts and dresses occasionally: a shopping mall at 6:00 pm when women are on their way home from the office, for example, or a downtown hotel restaurant, art museums, etc. But even in slacks or capris, it's always a rush to pass through the world as a woman.

[joann07]

Bravo! :)
You couldn't have said it any better girlfriend.

Hugs!

[vikki2020]

Nicely done, Megan.Hammer,nail--BullsEye!And you are so right about going out and the GG's are all wearing jeans and sweatshirts---sigh.I'm sometimes the only one in skirt and heels, but thats ok!--works for me:happy:

[Susan.]

Put me down as one of those that agree with you. I'm pretty much the wall flower type anyway. Sometimes I wonder if some of us aren't really trying to pass as a sex object instead of a woman. If you want to pass as a sexy woman then go to a bar not the mall.

[JOEY88]

me too

[crusadergirl]

Blending in at the mall isn't easy here b/c not all girls wear pants like everybody keeps saying. Plus blending in isn't any fun and its just not my style. Shopping at a grocey store i can understand blending in but a mall it's not going to work. If i'm going to wear pants i'm not going as kirra i go as myself.
break the walls down

[lisa_e_love]

Hear hear! Very well said.

While it's fun to dress up however I'd like at home, when going out it really is best to try and blend in. Trying to look sexy and scandalous in the wrong setting not only gets us spotted it likely has a tendency to hurt GGs who feel that we are portraying them as, like you said (or someone else in this thread) as "sex objects." At home or at a bar or a club, anything goes. But among real women in real situations in the real world, it's good to emulate rather than create a dangerous archetype.

[jill carey]

hi Megan,
I fully agree with everything you said, we girls need to blend in and not go over board, less can be more,there is a place for everything, but we need to study where we are going - time of day or night, we need to work at passing as a woman (well me anyway )
keep watching and listening and learning.
:hugs:

Jill

[Megan70]

My goodness!!! Girl friends, unanimous agreement here at something i said intelligently that hit som "good" nerves and made a point. Makes up for a few points where i ticked a few people (you know who you are) I don't care. I say what I think and feel, and finding this forum I believe more of us ladies should use our female intellectual side and express ourselves philoshically as I did above. I thank all you little sweethearts :love:for the kinds words, Bless You!!. Keep the comments coming and don't be afraid to expound lengthy as to your thoughs. I will have more to say later this afternoon. Have to get dressed now in my drab clothes(damn!) and go to work.

Oh how I wish it was secretary attire from the skin out and go downtown with lunch with the other otffice girls, al dressed nicely in skirts or dresses , stockings and heels.More later ladies.
Your Turn again. Thanks girls:hugs:

Megan :happy:
the miss Plato of the forum-Join Me!

[Chloe Jean]

Hi Megan

Ty for the advice. I do want to go out but no sure i could pass.
Maybe if i got a professional makeover that would help.

["Mary"]

I agree w/ Megan, too.

That said, I think I can offer some insight into the thinking of the bafoon wearing the evening gown to the grocery store, as I can count the number of times that I've ventured out on my fingers.

#1 - If you don't CD often and well, it doesn't seem that subtle effects would make a convincing transformation. Girl jeans vs snug guy jeans, girl sweatshirt vs guy sweatshirt, blush vs a wind burn, girl keds... etc. How can these little differences clearly change the gender I present? One feels the need to go big.

#2 Similarly, if one admires the way women appear and wishes to enjoy the feeling of being a woman - and only CD's occasionally, there's the tendency to go for the full effect, since one does not have time, energy, resources and experience to put on a convincing but ordinary feminine appearance. Instead going for the extraordinary woman look & feel.

So while I agree w/ Megan, I understand some folks tendency to go (what seems to others as ) overboard.

Just my two cents.

Diana

[Megan70]

Send me a pm sweetie with some photos, let me be at least one judge bit not the only one. Remember if one thing stands out the most to give yourself away its fear! It shows in your face, your walk, your deportment. having complete confidence in yourself as you walk outside is the most important thing(plus no.2 I found is wearing the right wig for your face and age-found out being read by experience there.

One thing I found that help me build my confidence and almost eliminate paranoia is never look over your shoulder TO SEE IF ANYONE IS WATCHING YOU. iTS A DEAD GIVEAWAY THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH THAT PERSON(You). First thought is you are a shoplifter. If you can feel eyes burning into your back SO WHAT its their problem, not yours.

You may want to even be bold enough (as i have) and turn around and reverse the embarrassment to THEM as approach them and say" "Can i answer any questions for you? I saw you string, do you have a problem?." I did this to a teenage SA counter girl years ago and she babbled and almost wet her pants. I ended it by saying , "yes, I'm a crossdresser but also a customer-my money is just as good as a females.":2c:

More from Abbys advice column later dears:happy:

Love

Megan

[Megan70]

I agree w/ Megan, too.

That said, I think I can offer some insight into the thinking of the bafoon wearing the evening gown to the grocery store, as I can count the number of times that I've ventured out on my fingers.

#1 - If you don't CD often and well, it doesn't seem that subtle effects would make a convincing transformation. Girl jeans vs snug guy jeans, girl sweatshirt vs guy sweatshirt, blush vs a wind burn, girl keds... etc. How can these little differences clearly change the gender I present? One feels the need to go big.

#2 Similarly, if one admires the way women appear and wishes to enjoy the feeling of being a woman - and only CD's occasionally, there's the tendency to go for the full effect, since one does not have time, energy, resources and experience to put on a convincing but ordinary feminine appearance. Instead going for the extraordinary woman look & feel.

So while I agree w/ Megan, I understand some folks tendency to go (what seems to others as ) overboard.

Just my two cents.

Diana
A case in point agreeing with the beautiful Diana.
Years ago my wife and I were shopping in a discount outlet mall .I was dressed male. Everyone was saturday summer casual. Along come strutting an overly obvious CD wearing a cocktail dress, high heels and clutch purse. Stuck out like a bad shade of lipstick.
Blend in with the crowd,dress as they dress. Keep your feminine sexy dressey for yourself, your mirror nad home.
Megan

[erickka]

Meagan, I couldn't agree more with you. I generally dress as a middle aged woman in conservative skirts,dresses,heels,etc. I feel great whether dressed to the nines, or grocery store casual. I also respect women, and try my best not to ever make some kind of mockery of them.

[tamarav]

Dear Megan and all,

I couldn't agree more. I am in virtually the same small boat as you and have been writing about my adventures in the public for many years. We seem to paraphrase each other. It is so good to see more of this line of thinking and the sound advice that you give. When I lived in the San Francisco Bay area a few years ago and belonged to a large group there (ETVC). I took a modeling class following a Tri Ess convention in the city and learned a lot from the young girls in the class and the instructors. I carried that forward and used to assist newer members with their passing abilities and take them out in the public for outings. We worked on downplaying the fishnets and the 6 in heels all the time.

My web site has a few pages of tips and tricks for getting by in public on the Tips page and I also have a lot of information on how to to do different things. Please read and take my information and build on it. We don't all have to make the same mistakes I and others have made over the years yet again.

I now live in the Pacific Northwest where overall tolerance is much less than the Bay Area but I have found that the core of humanity in this area is still appreciative of an attractive looking person. My wife coined the name of my web site "Apparently Female" years ago and I have used it as the centerpiece for my web site and my life since.

We as a group will either gain acceptance in the eyes of others or suffer ridicule at the hands of cruel people if we don't practice some restraint. I still suffer daily by exposing a little too much skin, or wearing 5 inch heels where not appropriate but have learned to deal with the looks and sneers. I now capitalize on the audacity factor by learning a new skill set and becoming a cosmetologist and permanent cosmetics technician. I can now wear anything I want anytime and get away with it even when it is out of place but it takes some getting used to.

I would prefer to wear my best cocktail dress with a great updo to the mall but it just doesn't fit so I have worked hard on looking like the masses.

Take a look at my tips and tricks on my web site at www.apparentlyfemale.com and see if any of the information can be of help to any of you.

Your sis,

Tami

[sue ellan]

it is like most of the girls have said. blend in. dress like the rest of the girls around you. i have only been out a dozen times and so far i have not been read that i know of. even when i apply for a credit card the sa dont know that im a man in women clothes until they see my driver license. i even asked a sa if she could tell that i was a man in women clothes and she said i thought you were a older lady. it made me feel good. also it helps if you have the confendence to go about your bussines and act like you own the place.

sue ellan

life is like a roll of tp. the closer to the end the faster it goes.

[LindaTS]

I have to agree with Megan 100%. I almost always wear jeans and some kind of top when I hit the mall but I always wear heels of some sort, usually something with 3" heels. It's very unusal for the women around here to wear a skirt or dress when shopping so when I do decide to wear a skirt I always get a lot more attention. It's mostly from the men and they do look at my legs so I guess it's not all bad. Just be aware of the added attention though.

[Mitch23]

i agree too - confidence, attitude, dressing to blend, good wig, make up right, not too much or too little. i usually go out en femme now about once a week and am surprised how little reaction i get. i guess most see me as a tall, skinny, funny looking woman but i really dont care too much - just enjoy the experience. i get read when in the zone or talking but SAs are happy to chat and help me find what i want

Mitch

[LindaMarie]

Megan,

What a great thread you've started.

While I think that part of the reason I dress is my admiration I have for women(and, honestly, probably a little jealousy), I haven't been able to express this well to my wife.

One of the things my wife hates about my dressing is that she feels it's insulting to women, that my wanting to look pretty implies that women are shallow and that apperance and clothes are the only things that are important to them.

Now, she's right in some respects. Crossdressing in women's jeans so I could scrub out a toilet doesn't hold much attraction for me. Part of the attraction of dressing up is that it give me the opportunity to be pretty (or at least try to be pretty - in my family, a boy or man trying to look nice was always thought of as less than fully masculine). Still, I don't become a blushing southern belle calling everyone dahling (not that there's anything wrong with that - it's just not me).

So, I know I'm taking this thread on a bit of a digression, but what advice do you all have for helping me help my wife understand that crossdressing is not insulting to women and that part of my attraction to crossdressing grows out of my admiration and appreciation for women.

Megan, thanks again for your original post. I hope you don't mind the slight detour I'd like to take.

Linda

[MJ]

thank you very well said. i feel passing is over rated just blend in with the girls

[charllote34]

Hey megan , i think you should write a book you really know what you are talking about .

[TxKimberly]

I agree with the majority of what you have said but . . .
Whats the point of crossdressing if you have to look frumpy to blend in? Jeans and a t-shirt/sweatshirt WILL help you pass, but why bother? I can wear them all day every day - What would be the point of crossdressing if you don't feel pretty and fem? Me, I'm stepping out in the prettiest skirt and shoes I can find and afford, and I'll live with the few who spot me because of it.

[Chari]

Megan, Your posts are what most of us feel and maybe hope to accomplish! Having confidence in yourself can change your entire outlook, regardless of what you are wearing. I have learned to observe GG's in areas I plan to visit to blend in better and so far have successfully "past the test", but it took alot of practice to be convincing. For me there is more to passing than just wearing female attire, makeup, and polishing your nails! :2c:

Hugs2U, Chari

[Nicole Erin]

Yeah, all of my jeans and sweatshirts are woman, as are my tennies.
I don't know what people think.
While I prefer even jeasns and shirt be woman's, I don't really have fun wearing them. And I don't wear makeup with jeans and tee/sweatshirts.

I can understand about blending in yet wanting to CD. Maybe one could wear a conservative dress, tan hose....

I Do have one short dress outfit that WOULD get me spotted, another evening gown that would look out of place anywhere but a ballroom, and a longer skirt/blouse separate that looks good but not attention drawing.
The rest of what I have looks like church clothes... :o

Crap I need more dresses.... :mad:

[jaina]

I wear skirts and heel 90% of the time. I don't even own a sweatshirt so the original post really isn't a "must do".
I'm not spotted in a second or laughed at.

[marie354]

thank you very well said. i feel passing is over rated just blend in with the girls

Blending in is right. Just be yourself and act like you know. You'll be OK.


I agree with the majority of what you have said but . . .
Whats the point of crossdressing if you have to look frumpy to blend in? Jeans and a t-shirt/sweatshirt WILL help you pass, but why bother? I can wear them all day every day - What would be the point of crossdressing if you don't feel pretty and fem? Me, I'm stepping out in the prettiest skirt and shoes I can find and afford, and I'll live with the few who spot me because of it.

Nope! No jeans for me anymore. I began that way before I came out fully 24/7 and I'm not going back. It's nice to look and feel nice. I'm about to hit the 3-month mark of living 24/7 as a woman and I'm not looking back. Just wish I'd made the decision sooner.
~~Sandy~~

[Megan70]

Agreeing with LindaTS and others about going to the mall. When you go, time wise and dress wise is very important when you don't want to be in jeans sweater, sneakers. For example.:

Been there and done it. Shopping after 5 pm looking like a business woman or secretary on her way home, and also around 1 pm on a Sunday afternoon. Giving the illusion I'm coming from church.That way we can wear skirts and dresses and nylon stockings and show our legs off when normally that mode of dress would not be appropriate. As long as its not garish...but believable.


Alright, here I go again attempting to glimpse some truth.

I have read here that so many of you seem completely defeatist when you think that you cannot or could never pass as a woman in public. Of course, that is not necessary if you are happy to simply remain at home but there is a definite gap somewhere which says to me that some of you at least would love to know what it feels like at a movie, on a date, at a restaurant etc.

I would like to provide once again a bit of cheerleading as I honestly think that some of you will someday discover that you may be more than cross dressers or a more "evolved" cross dresser to whom the clothing is only partially satisfying.

-Go to a mall or supermarket. Tell me how many women you see who are actually masculine.

-Go into your own family albums and have a look at some of your relatives who might have immigrated. Are the women beautiful?

Guys, some of you completely idealize w. Most of us are not only on the verge of letting ourselves go but many of us are just downright unattractive and that is simple genetics along with the fact that all of us have both hormones resident...and that is EVERY person on Earth.

My theory is that EVERY MAN can pass as some type of woman, even if it is a fishwife, ogre or bag lady! Of course most of you would be far more attractive than that!

Would you settle for simply being called ma'am and wearing clothes which might not be designer?

Are you willing to do a bit of work with the assistance of a makeup expert or plastic surgeon?

Have you not seen a genetic woman who looks so much like a man that she makes you wonder? Well, who exactly can force her to pull down her knickers and prove anything to you?

Will I end up looking like a few of my Russian cousins generations back who wore babushkas and were hunched over like crones?

So gentlemen/ladies, do not think that you will ever look like your idealized version of the true objectified GGs. And as you can see, this question that you bring up of genetic entitlements has and will certainly be an internal dialogue for the rest of my life.

I love being a CD/TV. If part of part of you is female, then you need the whole experience if that is what you wish. Do not confuse the beauty of GG's hose and lingerie with the fact that the qualification which we must meet as women to wear it involves any form of perfection.

Keep watching, gain your confidence and follow your dreams. The experience can be yours and I wish you love always.

Megan

[Megan70]

In response to your thread and your wife's opinion that we are insulting women. We're not. Speaking for myself I greatly admire and envy women!. The people that insult women and act as buffonery in a mocking way are drag queens. but remember, its their job!. They're entertainers only and deliberately go over the top in makeup and actions

A knife can cut bread or can be used as a weapon for murder.

A ladies outfit can be used as a fine escape for a man who uses effort and respect or as a tool for buffoonery and denigration of women. Their responses will depend on the input given and I know that is still asking them to judge you in a way; but if you go about things not being freakish nor going after shock value then at least some reason will take over.

A woman friend whois CD freindly said to me...
However, if you wish to walk up to me expecting me to make some proclamation about your wearing hose, my response will always be "Please go away and obtain some counselling." or "Despite what you are wearing, what good things have you done for others lately?"

Your job should be to blend with them, become one with them, sisters... and enjoy your lives. I for one would never stop you as you are not trying to proclaim that they should pay so much damn attention.

Have a wonderful Thanksgiving

I have coined a phrase....Compromise, don't apologize

Megan :happy:

[Sherlyn]

..as I read this ..it seems the general theme of this thread is blending in ..in a mall or supermarket ...?????..continue .....

[Megan70]

Or wherever in public. The theme here is passing, and it doesn't matter where you are. It could be a church, formal ball, wedding or funeral... just go with the flow and when in Rome...

Megan

[Sophie Haworth]

Just had to jump in and say thanks, blending in is what I have tried to do for years, and it is only the last 3 or so, heck since the girls help on here, that I have managed it.

Its more about trying to look plain and attractive, and not sexy

It is not just about the clothes, it is everything.

The walk, posture, toe nails, shoes, earrings, hair, bracelets, rings, fingernails, makeup and perfume.

Its more about trying to look plain and attractive, and not sexy

For me it is all about being a woman for a short period of time and completely blending in.

Most of the time I am a man, but there are fantastic times when I am just Sophie.

S.H.

[Sam-antha]

..as I read this ..it seems the general theme of this thread is blending in ..in a mall or supermarket ...?????..continue .....

I tend to think of the street, the public park the train etc if there are people around. Otherwise and mostly for me it is in the country,where it is not that easy.... fewer people to look at from thepoint of view of others pasing me by

[Sally24]

I do find that jeans are the "uniform" of most women, especially the young. I also know that if you pick the size correctly and use the proper undergarmets and padding that they can be damn sexy! I often wear jeans, especially out with my wife or daughter. One thing I do wear though is a bright top. It may be bright colored, or metalic, or just eye catching. You can wear jeans, and low shoes to blend, and then a fun, flirty, femmine top to be pretty. It works for me and is really fun!

[TxKimberly]

I do find that jeans are the "uniform" of most women, especially the young. I also know that if you pick the size correctly and use the proper undergarmets and padding that they can be damn sexy! I often wear jeans, especially out with my wife or daughter. One thing I do wear though is a bright top. It may be bright colored, or metalic, or just eye catching. You can wear jeans, and low shoes to blend, and then a fun, flirty, femmine top to be pretty. It works for me and is really fun!

And you look just awesome too Sally. Sorry though, you keep those pants - I'm sticking to pretty skirts that swirl and flare out when you twirl! Try THAT in a pair of jeans! :tongueout

[Cara Allen]

Megan,

That was wonderful! You have hit it right on the head for me!

Bless you!:love:

[Kimberly Marie Kelly]

:2c:Kim, I agree with you, dress's and skirts are beautiful and feme. looking on your Yahoo account I must say you look beautiful and sexy in dress's, I love the way you look. Hopefully, someday I will be able to look as pretty.

[Rachel Morley]

I do find that jeans are the "uniform" of most women, especially the young. I also know that if you pick the size correctly and use the proper undergarmets and padding that they can be damn sexy! I often wear jeans, especially out with my wife or daughter. One thing I do wear though is a bright top. It may be bright colored, or metalic, or just eye catching. You can wear jeans, and low shoes to blend, and then a fun, flirty, femmine top to be pretty. It works for me and is really fun!
:yt: ...I find myself agreeing with you so often ..... I'm rapidly becoming your # 1 fan! :D

[jennifer41356]

I agree with most of this , but I have gone out in business suits and office wear to the mall or grocery store and never have any problems. I am on the petite side and have a fem sounding voice, so maybe that helps.....

my advice wear what your short short skirts and 5" heels to the clubs, wear casual and business type clothes for daytime fair:2c::drink::love:

[Megan70]

Kudos to both these fine ladies in their responses to my thread. I suggest you really go visit either or both of their websites.

Tamarav's is so well done professionally with so many sub links within that it would take hours to examine every page. But pleasantly so. This lady KNOWS what she is talking about, shes been around the block a few times , and walks the walk.Plus she could open a wig store with her tremendous collection. Especially interesting is her no nonsense approach to dieting having gone from 189 lbs to 135 and looking GREAT!, yes she can pass and does well .....Kudos sweetie:hugs:

Now on to TxKimberly: she took a polite and respectful difference of opinion with me about jeans and sweatshirt mall casual to feeling womanly and making the point that wearing a dress or skirt swirling around her legs helps her do that. Well, SHE TOO knows from which she talks because after viewing her Yahoo 360 website she looks absolutely marvelous in very casual non-pretentious coloful long skirts and tank tops or tees. What kimberly has chosen to wear would work anytime at the mall, a hot dog stand or picnic in the park with the P.T.A. she looks good! and does not need jeans or shorts as her visit to Kennedy Space center in a skirt shows. Good like girls, you write well and know your stuff, proud to know you there darling's:love:

Megan :thumbsup:

[vikki2020]

I'll add to the pot:2c: I do think where you live adds to the equation.If I'm at a mall, or a grocery store, being in Chicago means that there are all kinds of business outlets or office buildings nearby, pretty much anywhere in the city.So, when I'm out in a skirt and heels, and I do try for the office look, I've thought I blended in pretty well,where ever I'm at.Thats the advantage of living with millions of people, I guess!

[Sallee]

I couldn't agree more look around see what the others are wearing. jeans, sneakers, sweat shirt. minimal make up and you to can pass at the mall. :2c:

[TxKimberly]

Now on to TxKimberly

Wow - thanks Megan! I wasn't sure anyone ever visits my 360 page! lol

By the way, I really didn't disagree with you. Your post is 100% correct - if you wish to pass, dress as most women dress. It aint rocket science, it's common sense.
My only point is that if I have to dress in clothes just like my male clothes just to pass, then I'd rather risk not passing to wear something pretty.

Dont forget, cross dressing is supposed to be fun! :-)

[LindaTS]

We certainly have a lot of input on this subject, as we should. I'm sure this is important to a lot of us. I just wanted to add a couple of things. I think it makes a difference as to where we happen to be located. In my area of central NY most females don't dress up for shopping. This is just something you don't see during the daytime. However, in bigger cities things seem to be a lot different. The last time I was in Boston I saw a lot of fems wearing skirts and dresses during the day. I would assume that these women were also at work, but my point is, you do see them. One other thing for those of you who don't think you'll pass. How many people do you think actually study those women walking around and say to themselves "Is that a man or woman?" No one does this. Therefore, I think a lot of you would pass. Give it a try girls. It can't hurt.

[daviolin]

Great Thread Girl. My biggest fear would be when I would have to speak I have such a low maculine voice It would be a dead give away. Everything you stated is right on Daviolin

[windycissy]

I'll add to the pot:2c: I do think where you live adds to the equation.If I'm at a mall, or a grocery store, being in Chicago means that there are all kinds of business outlets or office buildings nearby, pretty much anywhere in the city.So, when I'm out in a skirt and heels, and I do try for the office look, I've thought I blended in pretty well,where ever I'm at.Thats the advantage of living with millions of people, I guess!

Bingo! Walk around the Loop during lunch hour and you'll get quite a leg show (except in winter). When I travel, I usually drag along my girl stuff only when I'm gonna be in a place where it will be fun to dress up a little. One thing though, when it's really warm out the GG's break out their summer skirts and sundresses, and if you've got the figure for them, they are a hoot to wear.

[TxKimberly]

Great Thread Girl. My biggest fear would be when I would have to speak I have such a low maculine voice It would be a dead give away. Everything you stated is right on Daviolin

So you read it over and over and over . . .
The sales associates do not care if you are a guy! I'm not some arm chair quarter back trying to tell you this from a safe and comfortable chair, I'm telling you based on a pretty good deal of experience doing it. They do not care so why do we, why should you?
We let the silliest things keep us locked away from the sunlight and the fun of being in the world. Don't let this be one of them. Every single person I've had to talk to has "made" me, and it didn't matter at all.

[Mitch23]

i agree with kimberley on both points - you can dress like the girls and be pretty - you don't have to be drab. i have a masculine voice and when i speak to the SAs or get within about 4 feet of them I am read. They don't care and nor do I

mitch

[Megan70]

Wow - thanks Megan! I wasn't sure anyone ever visits my 360 page! lol
........
My only point is that if I have to dress in clothes just like my male clothes just to pass, then I'd rather risk not passing to wear something pretty.:-)
And you have no problem in that department darlin, there is no doubt in my mind that all the photos I've seen of you I see a 100 genetic woman, not a spot of masculinity. You are VERY pretty Kimberly, I'll say it again ... you know your stuff.
(now slip me that $5 bucks you promised for a phony sucking up to you): :heehee:

Daviolin- So don't use your voice unless you absolutely have. LISTEN to what my new friend Kimberly and Mitch say... it doesn't matter, Don't you care, they shouldn't either. Are yo going to bring these SA's home with you for dinner and give 3 hour dissertation why you dress and act like a woman. NO as they say on the Sopranos Hey FA- GETTA BOUT IT :hugs:

Megan :D

[TxKimberly]

(now slip me that $5 bucks you promised for a phony sucking up to you): :heehee:
Megan :D

What a bargain - I thought it was gonna cost me $10!

[Megan70]

I'm a cheap date...specially with newcomers. $10 next time out of the gate darlin'

Megan

[Sally24]

I have to chime in too I guess. My voice is at it's best androgynous but I don't let it keep me inside. Avoid talking much if you must, but get out there and enjoy. Most people don't notice and many that do notice are a little intrigued.

Kim your voice is much better than mine ($5) and I think you overestimate the number of people that read you ($10). I get paranoid sometimes but you've got a much more coordinated look than I usually do ($15). Ummmm....I'm in a hurry, can we just round this off to $20 and call it a day? LOL

Seriously, even those of us who have spent some serious time out and about can be too sensitive to those around us, even if we don't allow it to keep us indoors. On a bad day I think any laugh or loud exclamation is directed at me when in truth I can't remember anyone ever saying anything out loud while I am passing by. You just have to get to a place where for the most part you don't care about the external, you just get on with your life and enjoying being a girl!

[windycissy]

The trick with the voice is to pick your spots and keep it short and sweet. For example, last week I was at a hotel, and I got onto a crowded elevator. A guy held the door open till I got on, and his wife started to tease him about how he was nicer to strange women than he was to her! When we gt to my floor, as I got off I said to her, "He's very sweet." She laughed and I waited outside the door to see if they said anything like, "That was a guy" but they just carried on about what a flirt he was...if I have to carry on a long conversation I get in over my head real fast, but I can pull it off if I stick to soundbites.

[Megan70]

Here's a cute couple of stories that showed good (passing)and bad (being read)relatively close to each other even minutes apart in the same location.
Several years ago in a Fashion bug or Dots or similar store it was loaded with women. I was a 5 on a scale of 10 that day. A cute little black girl leaves the side of her mother , walks over to me and says "are you a man or a woman?, are you a sweetie?"( obviously a term her mother taught her. Then she asked if I was a mommy, I said yes, she was satisfied, I was cracking up because i was nicely read by her and her mother but they let it go, wondered around and left me alone.

Another time at Bare Necessities I was shopping en femme with my wife, she on one aisle, me up front (when she tells me about this later outside) when she hears the young SA counter girl softly ask the manager and looking my way.. "Is That a guy or girl"... the manager makes the excuse to walk with and talk to a customer up to the door by me to look ,and returns to the counter leans over and whispers "Its a woman". My wife smiled and thought was hysterical.

At the mall 2 years back, I thought I looked good, went into Claire's bought three pair of clip earrings, smiled chatted with (my femme voice) and made direct eye contact with teenage sales girl who rang me up and was very curious, thank you Mame and all. Then I walk 30 feet away to the food court to the Subway counter to order a Pepsi, a guy in his 30's comes over reads me immediately and has to look at the floor to keep from laughing, he's smirking so. He's trying to get the attention of 2 employees, by winks and elbowing them standing right behind him, but they didn't pay any attention and ignored me totally, engrossed in their conversation and apparently being a normal customer. Only 10 minutes, 30 feet and 2 totally different reactions.

One of my favorite and initially terrifying was one Saturday after stopping at a gas station 7-11 type store to buy some cigarettes,I'm the only customer who is in there .Behind the counter are two young female clerks and a wholesale beer delivery driver unloading. The whole place goes deadly quiet, the stares started as do the whispers and laughter and giggles. Hiding behind the card rack wasn't helpful, they read me big time and i was being ganged up on. I beat it out of there fast,ruined my whole day and attitude...but... I was determined that incident, that store, and that sales girl was not going to win-I WAS!. The following week, I went back to the same store where only only of the (same) female clerks was and bought my smokes, made eye contact, used my voice,said thank you, "have a nice day Mame"
You don't know how tempting it was to say "remember me from last week? Same person Ha-Ha.
Now you explain those differences, I can't. Its unpredictable:rolleyes::straightface:

Megan

[Kerrie Sifton]

Thanks Meg for the thread. I look forward to the day when I can step out, dressed appropriately and no one will mind or be distracted. I agree that if one dresses appropriately the chances of "passing"increase substantially and really who would care. Each time when I go to the store i am distracted by pretty women in skirts or great fashions, but when I poll the entire population, men and women I note that most are "in drab" jeans runnners sweatshirts ski jackets (yes its cold here)
I think it would do us all good if we all dressed up a bit more... skirts or dress pants... your choice
:2c:

[TxKimberly]

Kim your voice is much better than mine ($5) and I think you overestimate the number of people that read you ($10). I get paranoid sometimes but you've got a much more coordinated look than I usually do ($15). Ummmm....I'm in a hurry, can we just round this off to $20 and call it a day?

Your killing me! YOu ladies think I'm wealthy or what??!!

[Andi]

you can have it both ways. It seems in our area that the GG's go from church to the mall on Sundays dressed in their church clothes. Many wear a dress and heels, etc. So one could dress like the GG's and not attract attention and get to wear something very feminine and dressy. :happy:

[Cara Allen]

That's true!

On Sundays, you can go anywhere dressed prettily. I see ladies at the grocery store, at the mall, everywhere, dressed up from church. It works.

Also, if you can borrow someones kids, and have them acting up in the store, you are home free!!!

[Megan70]

Both the two above posts are true regarding being dressed pretty with dress and stockings from church,I saw it for myself yesterday BUT time wise that only last for so long before a GG would be home to change in her casuals. I'd say by 1 or 1:30 pm max that you wear the dress, then its mall blend in casual time.

Megan