Is it worth it?

[Sejd]

Face it, if you have children in their twenties, they will tollerate you at best, but surely, they feel uncomfortable around you looking like a loggers version of Mona Lisa. Your wife has stopped feeling attracted to you because she was never a lesbian, your dog looks at you and starts thinking your wife is the Alpha. You can no longer go to the Spa, because the locker room situation is intolerable not to mention the beach scene!!! You start locking your car doors when it is dark, your co workers thinks you're a weirdo, your passport no longer looks like you are dangerous and you start wondering when your next door neighbor is going to beat you up. You start thinking, should I purchase a gun for my own protection. I'm beginning to think that there must be another way of dealing with this mind F..K. What do you all think. Do you think it's worth it?????????????:sad:
Sejd

[AllieSF]

I like your way of stating your situation and feelings. Since I am mature and new at all this I haven't arrived at the the phase where you are. So, I can not speak from experience, but rather from a thrid party's point of view. Instead of asking "Is it worth it to put up with what you put up with today", maybe a comparison of what it was like further back in your process when you were keeping most if not all in the closet would help you keep everything in perspective. Anyway, this is a great place to share your frustrations and get a lot of comments and recommendations, some of which may actually be helpful! Good luck and a big :hugs: for you.

[GypsyKaren]

It's been more than worth it for me, and I have absolutely no regrets whatsoever. Sure, I paid a price by losing my job and friends, but my life never revolved around that paycheck,and I'm much better off without those who ditched me.

Kat and I are closer than we've ever been, and while two of my kids are weirded out by this, they've stood by me, and my son Chris had me stand up with him at his wedding...and I could give a rat's ass about my neighbors, if someone has a problem with me they can bring it on, I'm easy to find.

I'm finally the real me, that has brought me more joy than I ever thought possible, and that's something you can't put a price tag on.

Karen Starlene

[Cai]

I'm in a similar spot - is it worth it that my mother and I are constantly on edge? is it worth it that I might lose a number of my closest friends? is it worth it that I could have trouble pursuing my dream career?

And the answer is YES. Because the alternative is death, by my own hand. No other choices. And I rather like being alive - when I get to be me, it's quite enjoyable.

[AmberTG]

You know, I think Karen's right on several points! why should you care one bit what your neighbor thinks? If you think he's actually that dangerous, it may be time to get some pepper spray or something. I'm all for gun ownership, especially for self-protection, but are you really prepared for the concequences of having to use it? Are you capable of using it if you must? If not, get pepper spray or mace.
My co-workers all accept that I'm weird, and I haven't even "come out" yet. It goes with the territory. I assume that most people who don't know me think I'm a "flaming gay" because I have certain "mannerisms" and I carry a fanny pack everywhere I go now, in guy mode. That's their problem, I can't help it if they are narrow minded and uneducated. They can think what they want, it doesn't bother me.
The "in between" stage can be the most difficult stage of transition, you don't fit into either catagory well enough to be accepted there. You just have to accept that there are certain things that you can no longer do, such as go into the men's locker room. It's just part of the deal.
I think a lot of people just don't realize how many things are going to change in their lives when they take the plunge into transition, there's a lot more to it then just altering your body. You are going to become part of the "lesser sex", if you want to keep your "male privileges", transition is the wrong path to take!
I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but sometimes, looking at the the harsh reality is necessary to know what you're really getting into. If all else fails, transition can be stopped.
This rant is not directed at any one person, it's just a dose of reality to ponder for all of us, me included.
Actually, in my case, I'm happier now, overall, then I've been in a long time.

[Sejd]

Thanks Amber, your response is well put. I think I overdid it a bit about the neighnour, I don't really have violent people next door, I am not an advocate for guns, but I would shoot if threatened. but the locker room - come on, the problem is that as a TG you are suddenly excluded from first, the mens, and seccond the womens locker room. You are just plain lost. And no one so far has commented on my remark about the dog. does anyone have any idea how frustrating it is when a Beagle turns to the wife for orders??? about Karen and your answer. Well, Since I know you personally from our meeting in Chicago, fine, you plot along and feel liberated, but you will never be accepted in society as a woman and so where does that leave you? I have met other TG's here in my hometown and it is especially these meetings which has rattled my belief in our whole journey. There is no amount of make up which is going to turn us into REAL women. No amount of surgery is going to change the fact that we were born male. Besides, how can anyone truthfully say: No problems that my friends are leaving me and my kids thinks I'm a weirdo and my wife is comtemplating having an affair with a REAL man, or whatever. Do we let it all go because of this "personal gratification" or do we take an extra look at how we maybe could incorporate our femininity into our gender malehood in a more constructive (I mean less destructive ) manner. I'm at a breaking point here and I think my thoughts are valid.
Sejd

[Cai]

The dog doesn't obey certain people in the household due to gender - I'm not even sure dogs understand human gender constructs. Dogs respond to a firm voice and consistency of commands. Nothing more, nothing less.

No amount of surgery will change the fact that I was born female. If I decide not to tell people, there is always the possibility of being outed. I accept that.

"Personal gratification." Maybe. But as I said, this is life or death. I think it's allowed to do something for yourself once in a while, especially when the consequences of not doing it are so high.

[GypsyKaren]

you will never be accepted in society as a woman and so where does that leave you?

Why should I care about how society sees me? I don't need anyone else's validation or approval in order to live my life, they sure don't come to me for my input.


There is no amount of make up which is going to turn us into REAL women. No amount of surgery is going to change the fact that we were born male.

What is a REAL woman? A genetically born female? What if she doesn't feel female but is only so physically, is she artificial like you imply that I must be? We could argue this till the cows come home, but this is what works for me...I feel real enough,and I have no problem with accepting the fact that I was born a physical male, that's the hand I was dealt, but that's why I keep an ace up my sleeve, and I played it by getting SRS. I see myself mainly as a person and only want to be seen and accepted as that, because that's what we all are at the end of the day...and I rarely bother with make-up anymore, it's a pain in the ass.




Besides, how can anyone truthfully say: No problems that my friends are leaving me and my kids thinks I'm a weirdo and my wife is contemplating having an affair with a REAL man, or whatever. Do we let it all go because of this "personal gratification" or do we take an extra look at how we maybe could incorporate our femininity into our gender malehood in a more constructive (I mean less destructive ) manner.

What else should I do, cry in my milk or hang myself? People who abandon you because you're "different" now aren't friends, they're bottom feeders who I have absolutely no use for, and I certainly don't want or need them around me, so they did me a huge favor by showing their true selves, and besides, I've somehow managed survive without them, and I'm much better off for it.

I love all of the talk about how a wife will want a REAL man, in fact it really cracks me up at times. What, are they nothing more than a penis to their wives? To me, a sex organ is so insignificant in the grander scheme of things, but if someone feels the need to wrap their lives around it, hey, go for it.

As far as the issue of kids, that's the toughest thing to face, and I surely didn't want to lose them, but I had no choice but to take the chance. I figured this...I devoted my entire life to them, and I worked real hard to give them a good start in life, so I guess I figured that it was my turn now to do for me, so I did. I didn't feel guilty about this decision, and I was willing to take the chance that I'd lose them, but it was either that or hook up a hose to the exhaust pipe on my truck, that's how strongly I felt about this. I was willing to lose EVERYTHING! Wife, kids, job, house, you name it, I didn't care, does this make me selfish? I don't think so...


I'm at a breaking point here and I think my thoughts are valid.

I agree, your thoughts are valid, as are mine. I'm a firm believer in "you gotta do what you gotta do, and only you know what's best for you". I don't tell people what they should do, only what works for me, we're all different and have to make our own decisions, such is life. You do whatever is necessary in order to be happy, I only suggest that you get far away from the breaking point, it's not a good place to be...you take care.

Karen Starlene

[Joy Carter]

Hi Sejd,

I have been full time for about four months now and in transition for just over two years. I have to say that while this has not been easy, it has been amazingly rewarding. I don't know if I am incredibly lucky or have just done enough things right, but this has been completely worth it.

I do care about what people think. Not that that will control my life and feelings, but I do want to try to help people feel comfortable with my transition. Most do, and with many people, I have a much better relationship with them now, that when they saw me as a man. Almost without exception, I have had no negative experiences and on the other side of transition my life is very much the same.

I have kids (31,27,11 & 9) and three grandkids. My 27year old son works with me and I see him everyday. In the beginning, he was fine with this intellectually, but it took some time for him to adjust emotionally. He calls me Terri and my three year old grandson says, "Poppi's a girl now"

My employees have been fantastic and my business partner's often tell me they feel a lot closer to me now than before. I even got a hand written card of support from the CEO of a corporation that is one of our clients.

My neighbours have been wonderful. Our kids still play and we still get together for dinner and wine. One of our neighbours that previously didn't know us well, invited us for their daughter's birthday party. The husband, a manly man, even gave me a big hug when we left. The neighbour hood kids still come to play and my nine year old son always ask his friends, "Do you know about Terri?"

Even my father in-law, whom I've know for over thirty years and would always shake my hand, now gives me a hug when I see him.

And, mostly, my wife and I. Our relationship has been rekindled since I came out to her. Our relationship seems to be not about gender so much. Just about two people that were meant to be together.

I think that as we move through transition, we need to remember that all this is very tough for others that are not trans. All we can do is try to help people learn what this is about. One of my managers says, "...you never crammed it down our throats..." We need to try handle this with dignity, courage and grace. For me this has been about educating people and letting them have lots of time to get used to it. I've also tried to tone it all down. I don't wears skirts very often and tone down the hair and makeup. If people know that this is something that you need to do for medical or health reasons and not some wild fetish and if you treat them with love and respect, the rest of it all falls into place.

Over the summer it just became apparent that it was time for full time. It was all very easy and comfortable. A bit of a non event really. Was it worth it. Absolutely.

Terri


You one never ending happy story Terri.
So glad you have found yourself. :hugs:

[Maggie Kay]

The question is in itself interesting. "Is it worth it?" because it implies an option. The option is that we could stop this somehow or choose another path. Other than self destructive choices, we don't have much of an option so I suppose a harder hitting question is " Is transition better than death?" Would life be worth living after transition? Most seem to say that it is and many say that it is much better. I too have faced many of the same concerns that Sejd brought up in her post. My relationship with my SO is severely damaged by my condition and I have the profound feeling of being backed into a corner. It is not necessarily by her but by all the many negative aspects of transition. It think that the terrible consequences of not dealing with TG outweigh the problems that occur. This path, is for certain, a very difficult one. The treatment is in many ways a bitter pill. However, I vote for life and will continue.

[SirTrey]

We all understand what you are going through, believe Me....I will say this, it's how I look at My situation, but it's a gut level truth....At the end of your life, when you are old and looking back, as we all will....YOU are the only one who will look back on YOUR life....Others, whose opinions seem so very important at the time, will be looking back on THEIRS, not yours....No one will be thinking, I wish Sejd had lived her life differently...Only YOU can decide how YOU want/need to live your own life...and what regrets you will or will not have down the road....I have chosen to be Myself...and let others choose for themselves how THEY live their lives...No one wakes up in the morning thinking, how does Trey want Me to live My life....They live it as they see fit...so do I....and so should you.:hugs: **Trey**

[melissaK]

What a read this thread is. Who started this thread? Sejd? It got so long I had to go back and check.

My :2c:. I have been in a 40 year fight with myself over transitioning. At first I didn't even dare. Then I didn't think it would be worth it on balance. BUT, and its a darn big BUT . . . I am not really happy.

My mental health has gone out the window a time or two, and the last time I nearly lost myself in a world of stress induced DID with overtones of Hi24home's issues. I had to ask myself "is not transitioning worth that?"

So, I charted a slow course to middle ground. A day at a time. The desire to put my foot to the floor and go flat out in transitioning gets harder to resist every day. Along the way its cost me some grief with my wife, but overall I am in better shape today than I was a year ago.

So I'd have to answer Sedj by saying even a little transitioning is worth it.

hugs,
'lissa

[Stephenie S]

Listen to Sir Trey.

One of the saddest things you can hear from an elderly person is, "If only . . . . ." Trey is absolutely right when he says that no one will wish you had lived YOUR life differently. Please don't get to the end on your life and have to wish you had only lived a bit of your life for yourself.

Has it been worth it for me? You bet your sweet bippy it has. Even with all the turmoil and trauma, I often find myself with a smile on my face at just the joy of living, free to be who I have always been inside. Free to stop pretending. Would my life be easier without this transition? Yup! But what kind of a life would it be? And what would I be able to say at the end? That I had lived my life the way others had wanted?

Am I a "real" woman? I think so. And what else counts? That you don't think I'm real? Sorry, hon. I'm real alright.

Stephenie

[AmberTG]

I think this thread has become a very important, eye-opening thread for all concerned! "Is it worth it?" goes directly to the heart of the matter, and may be the most important question we can ask ourselves, most of what we end up doing follows from the answer we give ourselves to this question. We should continue to ask ourselves this question until there is no longer any doubt about the path we choose to follow.

Plain Jane sounds a lot like me, I was small in school and was treated differently because of my size and actions. My ex wife filed for divorce from me.
This gets into something Karen said,"are they nothing more then a penis to their wives?" In my case, yes, that's what I was. My ex needed lots of sex to be satisfied, and constant attention to feel like she was a worthy person. She has no internal self-esteem and is co-dependent on others for her self value. I don't know how common this is with people, but she needed way more of both then I was able to provide her, so she moved on. I'm getting over it. My life is much less stressful now, not having to live in a state of constant kaos. I'm actually happier without her in my life because of the issues I just mentioned.
As for having a choice to transition or not, we all have different levels of need. Some of us can make the choice not to transition, or to stop transition, and live with that, some of us can't, it's transition or self-distruction. You have to decide for yourself where you fall in this. Personally, I could choose to stop my transition and live the rest of my life where I'm at now, I have thought about it, but I continue down this road as a conscious decision to be the person I've always longed to be. I will never be a "real woman" as someone put it, especially sense I will probably never be able to pay for SRS, but I'll be close enough for this life. I will be me!
Am I selfish, you bet I am! But, I have found that it's impossible to be of any value to anyone else until you can solve your own major issues. You simply must fix yourself before you can begin to help others. If you need an example, how useful are you to anyone when you're deep in depression with suicidal thoughts? You struggle just to get out of bed in the morning because it isn't worth facing another day of hell! Can you help anyone, or be there for anyone like that?

If you feel that transition isn't worth what you've lost or will lose, isn't worth the changes to your lifestyle, your best option is to stop transition and take stock of your life. You can always start again if you choose to do that afterward. If you continue transition, you begin to live under the same conditions and rule that all women live by in this society, it's part of the package. Say goodby to all the things of "male privelege". I'm OK with that, I never had much "male privelege" anyway.
OK I'll get off my soapbox now and behave myself for a while.

[Calliope]

My experience says a person can never tell "if it's worth it" unless - until - they are able to replace to all the people and places usually lost going into transition. For the transgendered, geographical cures can be heaven sent. Oh course you'd expect me to say that, but I still sense the losses on the way "home."

[Rita B]

"Is it worth it?" Absolutely! It's not like I have a choice. Either I find expression for my feminine self or I go into a very deep depression. There was a time when I thought that nothing short of a full transition would ever make me happy. Time and common sense have taught me that there are alternatives and that sometimes a half a loaf is better than none.

[michelleliz]

I think it is more of a question of who you really are not is it worth it. Do you have a choise or is your body and MIND telling you this is woh Iam

Michelleliz

[Mariah]

Well for me, I have no friends crapy job that I dont care about. and most of my family knows and does not care/ supports/half supports etc) so ya it's worth it to be me and I'm young enough to make a good go at it. :)

hopes
keris

[Sharon]

I believe with every fiber in my soul that it is worth it, at least for me. True, it has cost me the loss of some relations that I had thought were immune from that fate, but it has also allowed me to recognize and cherish those who love me regardless of what has occurred and have stayed beside me. It is also to their benefit that they have done so, because I am now so much happier and pleasant to be around.

I was so close to losing everything almost exactly two years ago because the fear of being ostracized and abandoned weighed so heavily on me that I was this close to just giving up. What a shame that would have been, because these past couple years have been, by far, the happiest years of my life. I have family who loves me, I have more than equal exchange for so-called "friends" who were not what I thought they were, and I am a heck of a nice gal in return..., well, maybe not when confronted with the haters and ignorant of the world. Luckily, that last group is rare and becoming more endangered every day.

And the day I carry a weapon, for any reason at all, is the day I abandon hope and give into the mindset of the idiots out there.

[Sejd]

Thank you all for your kind and in-depth answers. It truly warms my heart. However we look at it, it's not an easy road and not a smooth and effortless journey we are all on. I just spent thanksgiving dinner with 25 young people in our town, most of them "Gender Benders" and felt so happy because they all treated me with respect, me being there as an "older" TG. I find my state of being right now very confusing and I know I have to be more patient and trust that time will bring right answers and guidance. Thanks again for being so wonderful and honest all of you. :love:
hugs

[Kate Simmons]

I know it can be hard at times Sejd but this is the path some of us have chosen. As two spirited people it's about more than just us anyway. By virtue of being who we are, we help bring balance into the world, whether that balance is welcomed by others or not. The fact remains that it is there , however, and none of us really ever have to go it alone my friend.:hugs:

[Sejd]

Thanks Salandra
It helps to add the spiritual side of the whole experience. Like you, I've come to more and more see myself as a Two Spirit person, and my whole journey as such. sometimes I go though days of total discouragement like lately, but I know I get through it eventually, and the two spirits moves in me constantly. I wish there was more information available and more written about other TS who know they are "Two Spirited" beings. I have surfed the net but there is not much good stuff written about this. BUt I will share this with you my sisters, When my female spirit takes over, which is beyond my planning, I feel washed in femaleness and there is nothing I can do to resist. It just takes over. But I also have days when I wake up in the morning and know - This is a "Guy" day today!!!!! Very odd indeed.
Hugs to all.:heehee:
Sejd

[Priss]

It doesn't sound like my two cents is in any need here. What the hay.

This is another one of those questions you can only answer for yourself. No matter how far you choose to go with this, there will always be some loss. There's no getting away from it. :sad: There is just no perfect solution or cure to what we have.

For myself, the day I had my big revelation was not 'Oh, Iam really a woman...', I had known that all of my life. It was the actual listening to what I was really feeling inside, and realizing that I had the guts to go through with it. It was then just a matter of getting my foot on the correct path to my goal. Once I did that I have never really looked back. Yes there have been lots of pains and losses. But what I have now is so much better for me. I have to ask myself, was the shallowness of the relationships I lost worth keeping them? So far, my answer is no. But I'll probably be asking that question for the rest of my life. For now atleast, Iam happy where Iam.

But this is just me, there are plenty of people out there who are unhappy with where they have ended up, which is why only you can answer this question.

[AmberTG]

This thread has had me thinking today and I realized that I really haven't lost much at all so far in my transition. My ex didn't leave me because of it, there were bigger issues than that. I didn't really have any friends before I started, so I'm ahead on that account already. My kid both know and haven't disowned me, yet. My parents have both been gone for more then 10 years. I already don't have any communication with my siblings, I'm the "black sheep" of the family. I guess all I can come up with here is the possibility of job loss. I guess either I'm lucky, or my life was really sad before I started this, before I came to terms with myself. Food for further thought on my part.

[GypsyKaren]

There's so much talk about losses, but what about the gains? I have so many more friends now who are genuine, and I have happiness and peace of mind and heart, so the gains outweigh the losses so much that it's off the scales.

Karen Starlene

[melissaK]

I have happiness and peace of mind and heart, so the gains outweigh the losses so much that it's off the scales.
Karen Starlene

Nice to hear! And its true. I can be who I am with my SO and the few friends who know . . . and it seems to make better relationships. Pretending to be who I am not isn't a great foundation for a relationship.

How'd Han Solo put it in Star Wars . . . "Bring 'em on, I'd prefer a straight fight to all this sneaking around."

Well, ok, not a great analogy. But, Karen's right, there's more to be gained by being who we are than by sneaking around being who we are not.

Hugs,
'lissa

[CaptLex]

How'd Han Solo put it in Star Wars . . . "Bring 'em on, I'd prefer a straight fight to all this sneaking around."
Great line, Melissa, and he also said, "Never tell me the odds". I don't want to know the odds of this thing not working out, 'cause I have no choice in the matter. Nope, don't want to think about it or hear about it.

I think it all boils down to whether we're happier doing it or not doing it, and that's an individual thing. Personally, I know it's not a walk in the park some days, but (like Karen) I'm much happier now and would never go back to the way things were before. I'd rather give up the ship.

[AmberTG]

Ya, I guess I should have mentioned that I'm generally much happier and content with myself then I used to be. Just accepting yourself as who you really are inside takes a great weight off your shoulders and makes life better. Also, I have much better friends now then I ever had before!

[Sejd]

Reading all of your replies, I realize that once again, we tend to wrap it all up in boxes. There is the group of TS who has decided: It's GREAT, and there is the group of TS girls who has second thoughts. I think however that the truth for me is more in the middle. Yes, I have days when I think I am the luckiest girl in the world, and I have days when I grieve the loss of my partners passion for me as her lover. I have days when I mourn the feeling of having lost my "male libido" and there are days when I fold my hands in front of me on the table and feel pretty. It's not just one thing for me, and when I am in days of despair, that's when I ask myself the question if it is worth it. I also lthink: If there was a pill or some kind of medication I could take to make this go away, I would take it right now. Then there are other days when I stand in front of my wardrobe and look at my beautiful skirts for a long time and just feel like I'm on cloud nine. I don't think it's in just one way, and I just don't buy the statements from some of the TS here, that once they transition, it's all "Hunky Dory"
And Karen, as much as I admire your courage and determination, Give me a break, how can it all be so wonderful as you describe. If it was all that great, why in the world would you be spending time here on this forum. I don't think it is fair to all the TS who for whatever reason are not going all the way to constantly read that having transitioned is just "FANTASTIC" when the reality has to be that there are good sides as well as not so great sides about this process. At least let's be realistic here and talk about both sides of the matter. Yes, there are friends I don't grieve having lost, and there are friends who left who I truly miss. Yes, I love being Sejd and I love being who I feel I should be all the time, but I also miss the part I used to fulfill for my small community which was and is: my family. So reading my own rant, I can see that I am just experiencing my own transition, and thank you all for putting up with me.
hugs
Sejd

[GypsyKaren]

And Karen, as much as I admire your courage and determination, Give me a break, how can it all be so wonderful as you describe. If it was all that great, why in the world would you be spending time here on this forum. I don't think it is fair to all the TS who for whatever reason are not going all the way to constantly read that having transitioned is just "FANTASTIC" when the reality has to be that there are good sides as well as not so great sides about this process. At least let's be realistic here and talk about both sides of the matter. Yes, there are friends I don't grieve having lost, and there are friends who left who I truly miss. Yes, I love being Sejd and I love being who I feel I should be all the time, but I also miss the part I used to fulfill for my small community which was and is: my family. So reading my own rant, I can see that I am just experiencing my own transition, and thank you all for putting up with me.
hugs
Sejd

I've tried my best to give you an honest answer to how I feel, but that doesn't seem to be working, so let's do this instead...

Don't you dare tell me how I should or should not be feeling! You don't know a bloody damn thing about me, let alone enough to speak for me or to say that I don't know what I'm talking about! This is my life we're talking here, do you honestly think I would have gone as far as I have if I were in La La Land like you suggest? I'm sorry you're having problems with this, but that's you, it's certainly not me, so if you choose not to believe what I say, then ignore it and move on, but I resent your "give me a break" BS, so keep it to yourself, I don't want to hear it!

I miss NOTHING about my past life, I regret NOTHING of my new one, and the problems I faced in doing what I do and getting here are NOTHING compared to the joy that I feel now, so don't sit there and try to lump me in the same company as you! I am not you! My life and my feelings are different than yours, and I understand we are not all the same!

Why do I spend so much time here? Actually, it's none of your business what I do with my time, but I'll tell you since it seems to be bothering you so much. I work here! All of us moderators are here a lot because WE WANT TO HELP OTHERS! I want to help others, is that all right, is that a good enough reason for you? Do you have ANY idea about the number of hours I spend each week privately counseling some of the members here, or all of the time I spend talking to some of them because I've given them my private phone number and tell them to call at any hour because I try my best to be here for them? You don't have a bloody clue about me, so keep your misery to yourself, don't try to smear it on me.

Karen Starlene

[Kimberley]

I am going to put this as succinctly as I can.

Is it worth it? What is the price you are willing to pay for YOUR happiness.

Trying to draw conclusions from other's experiences is flawed thinking. It is your feelings and experiences that count. This is a highly unfair question. Anyone who has been through therapy knows it is about your willingness to go forward or not.

Kimberley

[Sally24]

You have children in their twenties, they will tollerate you at best, but surely, they feel uncomfortable around you.Nope, daughter knows so far and loves to talk fashion and raid each others closets!


Your wife has stopped feeling attracted to you because she was never a lesbian.Only when I have a skirt on, just take the makeup off and I'm her man again.


your dog looks at you and starts thinking your wife is the Alpha.He prefers women anyway so I move up the chain.


You start locking your car doors when it is dark.Duh...yeah!!


your co workers thinks you're a weirdo.They knew that a long time ago!


your passport no longer looks like you are dangerousProbably a good thing since 9/11.


You start thinking, should I purchase a gun for my own protection.You mean you don't already own a gun?



about Karen, you plot along and feel liberated, but you will never be accepted in society as a woman and so where does that leave you?.I would think comfortable in her own skin finally!


. I have met other TG's here in my hometown and it is especially these meetings which has rattled my belief in our whole journey. There is no amount of make up which is going to turn us into REAL women..Speak for yourself! There are many that can look attractive and there are some that can look damn sexy! I have personally met 2 or 3 that are indistingushable from a GG and that's without SRS or FFS!


Besides, how can anyone truthfully say: No problems that my friends are leaving me It can be a problem but life is full of problems. Do you chart your course thru life by what your friends will think of your choices? Close friends will make the effort to understand. Aqaintences are not friends.


Do we let it all go because of this "personal gratification" or do we take an extra look at how we maybe could incorporate our femininity into our gender malehood in a more constructive (I mean less destructive ) manner. I'm at a breaking point here and I think my thoughts are valid.
SejdYour thoughts may or may not be valid for you. You say personal gratification, I say this is MY LIFE. If I'm not here to live it my way, then what's the point?


Do you think it's worth it?????????????:sad:
SejdVery much a YES!!!

[Maggie Kay]

Karen,
I do wish to express my deepest thanks to you for the efforts that you and Kat have made on our behalf. I've been bouncing off the walls for a long time and you and the others here have really helped me to see things differently. The result is that I am bouncing much less and my path is getting clearer and clearer. I am beginning to see the light at the end of the tunnel and a future that I actually want to live in! I have grieved and grieved over the dismay of others as they react to my transition but in the end, there is only so much angst that is possible. The sun will come up tomorrow and I will have to deal no matter what. This does take a lot of the guilt over this condition. I have learned this is possible by reading the posts here and from your IM's Many many thanks to everyone. I pray that I will not have a major setback and progress to a stable existence. Being truly happy for the first time in twenty five years seems to be on my doorstep. That is worth it!

[Kris]

Face it, if you have children in their twenties, they will tollerate you at best, but surely, they feel uncomfortable around you looking like a loggers version of Mona Lisa. Your wife has stopped feeling attracted to you because she was never a lesbian, your dog looks at you and starts thinking your wife is the Alpha. You can no longer go to the Spa, because the locker room situation is intolerable not to mention the beach scene!!! You start locking your car doors when it is dark, your co workers thinks you're a weirdo, your passport no longer looks like you are dangerous and you start wondering when your next door neighbor is going to beat you up. You start thinking, should I purchase a gun for my own protection. I'm beginning to think that there must be another way of dealing with this mind F..K. What do you all think. Do you think it's worth it?????????????:sad:
Sejd

Your life sounds horrible.

I know there are many others who don't face those things. My kids would never think someone was a weirdo. I WISH I was gender gifted. Being a double spirited person is a wonderful thing - and I am sorry it was wasted on you. I think you need to figure out how to find supportive people in your life and you made a mistake in raising your children if they think you are a weirdo.

Your life sounds terribly sad and I wouldn't want it for everything. Please don't think that others have these same issues. I also would like to say that it's not fair for you say all the bad things and let some newcomer show up and think that your experience is all there is. Or that everyone has the same experience. Karens experience is important to learn about AND you appear to be a very narrow minded person by the way you tried to discount her.

Kris

[Kieron Andrew]

And Karen, as much as I admire your courage and determination, Give me a break, how can it all be so wonderful as you describe. If it was all that great, why in the world would you be spending time here on this forum. I don't think it is fair to all the TS who for whatever reason are not going all the way to constantly read that having transitioned is just "FANTASTIC" when the reality has to be that there are good sides as well as not so great sides about this process. At least let's be realistic here and talk about both sides of the matter. Yes, there are friends I don't grieve having lost, and there are friends who left who I truly miss. Yes, I love being Sejd and I love being who I feel I should be all the time, but I also miss the part I used to fulfill for my small community which was and is: my family. So reading my own rant, I can see that I am just experiencing my own transition, and thank you all for putting up with me.
hugs
Sejd
Back the heck off of Karen she along with her life partner Kat have done nothing but support this forum and educate those that wanted it to how her own transition was going, that to me takes a wonderful selfless person who is willing to share such a private experience with others, so that they can learn what is instore for their partners, themselves or family, ..... she's a giver not a taker! that is why she is here, she is secure and happy in her life that she is willing to give back to aid others in their lives, having been there for her almost every day that she was in Thailand i can wholeheartedly say that she has no regrets whatsoever....her life isnt yours, dont tar it with the same miserable brush

[Cara Allen]

It's been more than worth it for me, and I have absolutely no regrets whatsoever. Sure, I paid a price by losing my job and friends, but my life never revolved around that paycheck,and I'm much better off without those who ditched me.

Kat and I are closer than we've ever been, and while two of my kids are weirded out by this, they've stood by me, and my son Chris had me stand up with him at his wedding...and I could give a rat's ass about my neighbors, if someone has a problem with me they can bring it on, I'm easy to find.

I'm finally the real me, that has brought me more joy than I ever thought possible, and that's something you can't put a price tag on.

Karen Starlene

That was beautiful! I need a hanky... (smile)

Cara

[marie rose]

Thanks Salandra
It helps to add the spiritual side of the whole experience. Like you, I've come to more and more see myself as a Two Spirit person, and my whole journey as such. sometimes I go though days of total discouragement like lately, but I know I get through it eventually, and the two spirits moves in me constantly. I wish there was more information available and more written about other TS who know they are "Two Spirited" beings. I have surfed the net but there is not much good stuff written about this. BUt I will share this with you my sisters, When my female spirit takes over, which is beyond my planning, I feel washed in femaleness and there is nothing I can do to resist. It just takes over. But I also have days when I wake up in the morning and know - This is a "Guy" day today!!!!! Very odd indeed.
Hugs to all.:heehee:
Sejd

Sejd, your story is so similar to mine. I believe we are indeed sisters. Like you I am a big masculine guy however when my female side is in control I feel feminine to my very bones and my mannerisms and deportment are 100% female. This femininity comes so natural to me that my wife has often remarked that when I am in female mode I am much more feminine that she is. However, on the other hand when my masculine personna reasserts himself I am your typical macho male and have difficulty even trying to act female in the slightest way. It seems I can go from being and acting 100% female to 100% male or vice versa literally overnight and this transformation happens even though I try to fight against it, I haven't any control over it. When my feminine side is dominant which lately seems to be the majority of time I get this overwhelming urge to emasculate myself and sometimes this feeling is so intense it frightens me. It's as if I'm at war with myself. I believe this is the curse of being two spirited. At my age I am only looking for peace of mind and would much prefer to live out my life as the father and grandfather my family have always known. So as far as I'm concerned this is not worth it but have come to realize I haven't any controll over the situation. Cheers.

[Cara Allen]

And no one so far has commented on my remark about the dog. does anyone have any idea how frustrating it is when a Beagle turns to the wife for orders???

Now, THAT is funny! My Lab automatically assumes me the pack leader. I have to say that it HAS to be feromones, or something. Anyway, she goes right for me when we come in together. It bugs my wife a little. I would be happy to relinquish some of the dogs love, if it makes my wife feel better. It was supposed to be her dog anyway.

I think both dogs and cats are pertty perceptive. The pick up on body language like a scent. Sometimes, when I used to dress in front of my cat, she would scatter, and refuse to come out!



about Karen and your answer. Well, Since I know you personally from our meeting in Chicago, fine, you plot along and feel liberated, but you will never be accepted in society as a woman and so where does that leave you? I have met other TG's here in my hometown and it is especially these meetings which has rattled my belief in our whole journey. There is no amount of make up which is going to turn us into REAL women. No amount of surgery is going to change the fact that we were born male.

To say that Karen will not be accepted in society, is like saying that the cue ball will not accept the lettuce. It's irrelavant. Somehow, I get the message that Karen don't care... I can tell these things (smile.) She wanted it badly enough that nothing mattered to her. Worrying about whether you pass has the same result. It sends up flares.

You can't make an omlet without breaking some eggs. In one respect, the VietNam war ended because lots of people just got to the end of their rope and started protesting.

We didn't create this condition. We were born this way. Soooo... we can live a life that is incomplete, or we can be public about it and do what we can to be what we are. At least this way society finds better ways to fix either the condition, or better ways to make us women. Nothing happens without some discourse. I think that we, inadvertently create the discourse. The other possibility is that society changes. I think eventually, all three will come to pass, I think.

If you talk about passing, and whether this is a guideline, I have seen lots of women who don't pass, and know a few. They are still stellar people. Most women are.


Besides, how can anyone truthfully say: No problems that my friends are leaving me and my kids thinks I'm a weirdo and my wife is comtemplating having an affair with a REAL man, or whatever. Do we let it all go because of this "personal gratification" or do we take an extra look at how we maybe could incorporate our femininity into our gender malehood in a more constructive (I mean less destructive ) manner. I'm at a breaking point here and I think my thoughts are valid.
Sejd

See above.

Also, it is not more personal gratification for a transsexual. It is a serious mental disorder. My therapist (He has done this transition stuff for some time. I trust him) says that the end result for all (!) transsexuals is that they show amazing, positive emotional improvements from transitioning. For the last ten years, I have been taking what he calls "whopping big doses" of a prescribed SRI to keep depression under lock and key. And it works well. But you wind up kind of numb to things. I can see how resolving a core problem like GID might get other issues resolved, at least for me.

Try not to be so judgemental, Sejd. You will have some personal issues to resolve, before they allow you SRS (assuming you make it that far.) Have you considered that you were not cut out for transitioning? Nothing wrong with that. You must be truly driven to make it through "the cleansing fires of transition..." Sounds like something out of Indiana Jones!). Sometimes the HBSOC does save someone from a big mistake. It takes lots of courage to do it, but also knowledge to know when it's time to step back and see where you are (well, you know what I mean...)

Hmmm... You must be truly driven to make it through "the cleansing fires of transition..." sounds good. I think that's my new slogan!!!


Cara

[KrazyKat]

Okay, Ladies and Gentlemen, please relax, this is a supportive and informative site.

I think everyone knows that Karen and I do see ourselves as Ambassadors to the everyday average person world. No, we aren't famous, rich, or politically connected, nor would we care to be. :eek: But we are loving, caring, compassionate people who have the right to live our lives anyway that is unharmful to anyone around us. Being a different gender than the skin around you isn't harmful to anyone, and shouldn't be treated as a freaky thing, it just is what it is.

And this is my choice. How I live my life. I am incredibly happy, and working on getting a little farther down the road of personal happiness and peace everyday.:thumbsup:
My personal happiness, no one else's!!:D Because I can't control anyone else's happiness, and frankly, my Dears, that's more responsibility than I would care to take on!!:D
:heehee:And for the record, I have never been with a woman before, but the excitement that is building for the future "honeymoon" is pretty awesome!! :pBut I know that I would rather be with this wonderful loving person, who I trust more than anyone I've ever known, and that is enough for me!! The physical things are props, IMHO. :DI don't need props, my mind is enough!!

Thank you for your support and love. Please, let's remember everyone has confused feelings sometimes(or all the time)and they have the right to own them.
I don't think they have the right to tell other people how they "really" think, because they don't understand.

I forgot to share the goofy grin Karen has had on her face from the moment we stepped on the plane to present day. Ok, anyone is going to still have normal emotions, but this is something different, something that has changed her very soul, because I can "see" her soul singing these days!!

[Kimberley]

Kat, you are a sweetie as always. :hugs:

Cara, I dont know where you got that this is a mental disorder. It isnt, The mental disorders are the garbage we seem to pile up around our gender issues. Gender cannot be cured so how can it be a disorder? No one has yet been able to answer the question. SRS is an alignment of sex and gender. GID is destined for the scrap heap on the next DSM. It was supposed to go with the DSM IV but for some reason didnt. If your therapist is calling GID an illness I would be a little concerned. Mine has been doing it for 40 years and will not call GID a disorder other than to provide letters of recommendation for SRS.

Quite frankly I have serious dysphoria every day but I hardly think of myself as having an illness or disorder. Getting rid of the other stuff that cause anxiety and depression though; now that is another story.

:hugs:
Kimberley

[Sharon]

....I just don't buy the statements from some of the TS here, that once they transition, it's all "Hunky Dory"

At least let's be realistic here and talk about both sides of the matter.

I just erased a long and detailed post to reply to you, Sejd, but I decided that I would concentrate on the above.

You can waste your life bemoaning what you have lost if that's the way you wish to spend your time. But take it from me that it is a waste. Life is full of choices and compromises(and this is true for every human being, Sweetie), many of which are difficult and painful. But to say that those of us who choose to concentrate on the positive aspects of our lives, that we are not realistic, is just nonsense. I cry regularly about the two children who have told me that they don't want me in their lives anymore. I seethe at those who decide that they don't want to hire me because they can't handle dealing with a TG. And I sometimes wonder what obstacles I will face in the future, not the least of which is whether anyone will ever fall in love with me despite my not being born as a genetic woman.

But -- and this "but" is huge(one "t," not two) -- I have decided to face life with an optimistic and happy attitude. I still have my youngest daughter who seems to love me as much as ever, if not more, and I haven't entirely given up on the other two. And my sisters and the great majority of my other relatives also accept me. Believe me, I hosted Thanksgiving dinner for about 25 of them the other night and the only comments made to me were about the sensational meal they enjoyed. I also have more clients than I can handle who not only hire me, but they accept me and the quality of the services I provide. And I haven't given up on that falling in love and having someone love me bit either.

Attitude matters, Sejd, and we only have so much time on this world. Life is a bitch for everyone occasionally, but if you want to move on with your life and salvage even an iota of happiness, you need to learn to embrace the good things and file away the bad, still accessable when useful, but not right there at your fingertips.

Geez, this ended up being longer than the original, but I ain't erasing this one, even if it makes little sense or you choose to ignore it.

[Kimberley]

I agree with Sharon on this. If you are miserable before transition why would you be any different after? If that is the case then the therapists havent done their jobs.

In order to transition we have to have "clear mental states" meaning none of the other real disorders. Surprisingly when you are there, optimism just seems to follow. At least it has for me.

Transition is not a change of mind, only a change of sexual characteristics. Happy before, happy after. Miserable before, miserable after. It is just common sense IMO. You are what you make of it.

:hugs:
Kimberley

[GypsyKaren]

I think that one thing that many fail to realize is that transitioning and SRS isn't a magic pill that will cure all of your problems, you have to accept and embrace yourself and ditch all of the baggage you're carrying before you start down this path, if you don't you're wasting your time and doomed to fail.

Karen Starlene

[Sejd]

First of all, Confrontation in my book is not always a bad thing. And I was actually very pleased to see Karen coming out swinging at this one. Good for you!! I admit, I made a couple of statements which were harsh, that's how I felt and the responses which state it's my shit are all right. I don't want anyone to think that I'm miserable. But what I am, is in a transitional state which I am sure you all have gone through at one point ore another. this state is not easy, and it makes me upset when I read a lot of threads about how only wonderful it all seems. I simply have shared with you all some of my fears and also some of my frustrations about being on this path ( a path which we did not chose, but have to walk because of our sexual make up.) Now about the dog issue. Clearly, that was a joke, but I understand that it did not go over well. I do feel it is important to vent our opinions on this forum, or else it ends up being something very dull and not real. I at the same time apologize for pissing some of you off, and I beg your forgiveness. Yes, we all deal with our own stuff, and there was no attack intended.
Thanks You all :hugs:
hugs
Sejd

[GypsyKaren]

I hate to break this to you, but once I started my transition I never once looked back or had any doubts, I kept moving forward all the way. Sure I paid a price for it, including a rather high paying job which I couldn't afford to lose because I had just finished putting my girl through veterinarian school, but I don't care! Screw the job, screw the paycheck, because what I have now means more to me than any of that, it's not even close.

I never said it was easy or all kittens and lollipops, but I was willing to pay the price, and I've done it without judging or questioning others who choose not to. Everyone has their own life and reasons for everything, so I let them be and still try my best to support them, but that's just me.

BTW, I see everything posted here, and I've seen more than a few stories from those who had problems transitioning or changed their minds.

Karen Starlene

[Cara Allen]

Kat, you are a sweetie as always. :hugs:

Cara, I dont know where you got that this is a mental disorder. It isnt, The mental disorders are the garbage we seem to pile up around our gender issues. Gender cannot be cured so how can it be a disorder? No one has yet been able to answer the question. SRS is an alignment of sex and gender. GID is destined for the scrap heap on the next DSM. It was supposed to go with the DSM IV but for some reason didnt. If your therapist is calling GID an illness I would be a little concerned. Mine has been doing it for 40 years and will not call GID a disorder other than to provide letters of recommendation for SRS.

Quite frankly I have serious dysphoria every day but I hardly think of myself as having an illness or disorder. Getting rid of the other stuff that cause anxiety and depression though; now that is another story.

:hugs:
Kimberley


Websters defines the following;

dysphoria
Main Entry: dys·pho·ria
Pronunciation: \dis-ˈfȯr-ē-ə\
Function: noun
Etymology: New Latin, from Greek, from dysphoros hard to bear, from dys- + pherein to bear — more at bear
Date: circa 1842
: a state of feeling unwell or unhappy
— dys·phor·ic \-ˈfȯr-ik, -ˈfär-\ adjective

disorder
Main Entry: 2disorder
Function: noun
Date: 1523
1 : to disturb the order of
2 : to disturb the regular or normal functions of

or

1 : lack of order <clothes in disorder>
2 : breach of the peace or public order <troubled times marked by social disorders>


NOTE that there are 20 variations not listed here, but I think Number three following is the interpretation you object to...

1 : lack of order <clothes in disorder>
2 : breach of the peace or public order <troubled times marked by social disorders>
3 : an abnormal physical or mental condition <a liver disorder> <a personality disorder>


Kimberly,

I think you are objecting to a clinicians interpretation (the latter, above,) while I am implementing a broad adjective (the former.)

In any case, why do you discard one terminology, and embrace another?

Disorder is what it is. You might elect to tag it something else. However, if it is something that inhibits an effective execution of your life, I would consider that a disorder, perhaps in a broader sense than you. You cannot interpret what I feel, and I feel an intense disorder, actively screwing up my life.

So, disorder defines a lack of order, while Dysphoria, on the other hand, is defined as "a state of feeling unwell or unhappy." I am more than unhappy, but a lack of order is not exactly on target either.

As for my therapist, he is a board certified clinician who works in one of the most comprehensive and recognized Gender Clinics in the United States. I am very fortunate to be in this program. My therapist has been with the program since the outset, in the late 1980's, and has counseled many, many gender patients. His indication to me is that it is classified as a disorder in the DSM-IV. Most good clinicians will adhere to this interpretation until a new DSM is implemented. In the end, he tells me that he knows many, many people who have been helped by transitioning, and that the result is miraculous and life changing.

My kind of guy. I can only imagine what kind of a relationship you will build if you go into a therapists office, and start a debate with this kind of dialog. Dear, I am just not that concerned that a new DSM will be published in January of 2009, or something. I just want to have help and care in transitioning. The questions on his Board Exam are of little consequence to me.

I understand your arguement. I have been through 20 years of good therapy, and all of those peripheral issues have been adressed to my satisfaction. All that remains is a core issue. I wind up going to the same kind of resource to resolve this issue, too. For me, terms are not important for the purposes of this discussion. Also, please spare me any assessment of qualifying mental states for transition, or how my therapy should be configured to meet your perspective unless you can flash me at least a Masters Degree in clinical psychology.

At one point, I wanted to be a therapist, and I have over 30 hours of clinical psychology courses. I am a life member of the PsyChi honor society. I can differentiate between clinical diagnosis, and the clinicians intent to resolve a patient's disease. Disease is another of those words that can be split on different planes of understanding. No doubt another term that you will find objectionable. I mean dis-ease.

After all is said and done, I wish you would explain to me what we accomplish by dancing on the head of a pin in this forum?

Bad hair day? Testosterone count up? What up, Kimberly?

PS you called our condition GID. You do know that GID means Gender Identity Disorder, don't you?

[Like2BAspen]

Of course its worth it you just have to deside if your willing to do what it takes to pass. you have to come to the realization that your marriage wont most likeley last. be honest with her. Your children well if they arent living with you wont see you much anyway. How often did you see your parents once you were married? I mean really. and if your worried about the way you look then do something about it. this country has thousands of plastic surgeons. and well if you are transitioning hormones will take care of a lot and blockers like spirolacton will help break down muscle. I have been on hormones and blockers for a year and a half and I dont look like the same person. I was told by a policeman that pulled me over that I need a new pic. But I will be changing my name soon and will do it then. I need to loose weight but again thats something that can be worked on. I told my children and we go to my therepist regularly but they are 10 and 13 but were 7 and ten when we started talking about it. I was already divorced. So its something you have to decide for yourself electrolosis has cost me over 5000 dollars and im like half way done. the surgery will be like 16,000 and I want a bit of cosmetic stuff done that will be like another 10 to 14 thousand so if you really want this well your happiness is an investment. The cosmetic stuff includes boobs which I dont need much cause of the hormones. But every small step makes me happier but it isnt easy.
I wish you the best Luv Aspen

[GypsyKaren]

The last thing we need to be doing is arguing definitions because it serves no purpose, the only thing that matters is the bottom line of who we are inside.

Karen Starlene

[Di]

The last thing we need to be doing is arguing definitions because it serves no purpose, the only thing that matters is the bottom line of who we are inside.

Karen Starlene


EXACTLY....

[BrendaB GG]

I don't think it is fair to all the TS who for whatever reason are not going all the way to constantly read that having transitioned is just "FANTASTIC" when the reality has to be that there are good sides as well as not so great sides about this process. At least let's be realistic here and talk about both sides of the matter.
Sejd

I have to say that I disagree with this statement. All I ever heard about was the horror stories, the broken marriages, the disowned sons & daughters, all the bad stuff. We need to share our positive stories, because for some of us, that is actually what it is! I know if you are coming from a place where it has not been a happy story, then you can't see it. just because it is not your experience does not mean that it does not exist.
When I first became the 'spouse of a transperson', I felt very alone, and leaving was an option that most people assumed that I would take. Why is that? I believe its because spouses in this situation do not have any other examples, its all been too secret and hush hush. I found an online support group full of spouses who are staying and it has been my lifeline. I truly believe that when more spouses stay with their transpartner, then more spouses will stay. When more employers keep their trans employees, more employers will do the same. When more parents accept their trans children, then more parents will do the same and so on it will go. It has to start with the Karen's and Kat's of the world who are brave enough to be out there and say this is the better way to do it. My spouse Terri and I are doing our bit here in our corner of the world, we are out there and honest and people have responded to us in a positive way.
So people like you are free to discuss the bad sides as you put it, but you need to let people like us discuss the good sides without arguing that it cannot be true, because in fact it is true for us.
BrendaB

[KrazyKat]

Thank you, Brenda. May I add, "AMEN!"

Yes, so to answer the question, "Is it worth it?"

Yes, to me it is!! :thumbsup:
I did lose a girlfriend of 25 years, who said to me, "Kat, you can't change people's feelings!"
I replied,"You can make a start!"
She is my ex-friend, people's opinions mean too much to her, and she assumed condescending pity for me everytime she saw me. Made me angry.

Now I'm happy, she wasn't a true friend, not what I consider a friend, anyway.:oI'm too embarassing to have around her. I feel no anger for her anymore, but sad that she allows people to keep her in a prison of doing only what is "allowed" by them. :(

[Cara Allen]

The last thing we need to be doing is arguing definitions because it serves no purpose, the only thing that matters is the bottom line of who we are inside.

Karen Starlene

I apologize to Kimberly, and to the group if I got angry and projected it. I am under alot of stress right now...
Oh wait... you have problems, too! I should realize that, whenever I post something that might hurt other people's feelings. I promise I will consider that in every future post, Karen.

Hugs,

Cara

[Siobhan Marie]

The last thing we need to be doing is arguing definitions because it serves no purpose, the only thing that matters is the bottom line of who we are inside.

Karen, I couldn't have put it better myself and agree with you wholeheartedly honey.

Now if I can put my :2c: into the cauldron that is this thread. I know that what we do is not an easy thing to do or is it an easy road to travel. I think I've learnt that myself of late as I've been to hell and back with my folks and over my folks. They both knew about me and my being transsexual. They wouldn't deal with it, acknowledge it or even talk about it which left me wondering what to do as I'd done all that I could and in the end we went our seperate ways for a while. This was the scariest and loneliest time that I've ever known. If I didn't have the few friends that I have got to turn to, one being my friend Lisa, she is my best friend, my big sister and my rock. I would have gone stir crazy. My other friends were great, really understanding, really patient and will to listen even if they couldn't help or guide me. They were there for me and that is a debt that I can never repay. My folks and I have recently gone a long way to sorting things out between us, they have admitted that they what they thought they knew was based on ignorance and that they had their heads in the sand. I'm so glad and relieved that my folks are back in my life as I need them now more than ever.

:hugs: Siobhán x

[jandebs]

Sedj's original questions, about whether it's worth it or not, although directed to others, must surely have been about whether it's worth it or not for Sedj.And all the myriad answers, and the different degrees to which we find it 'worth it' in each reply raise the central question for me: what exactly is 'transitioning'? I see transitioning as being the relationship we have with the rest of the world, the extent to which we interact as female, regardless of the physical changes to become 'more female' each one of us chooses to make.

And the point along that path of transitioning at which we are, and how far along it we feel we can go, is profoundly wrapped up with how it affects our closest personal relationships. For me that means my two kids, both in their twenties ( i'm widowed and single ), and though i only ever resort to 'male' for the few hours a year i go through airports, and am accepted by my kids, for now the prospect of any surgery is on hold simply because i've decided that asking them to cope with that degree of change is too much to ask, regardless of whether they'd be ok with it or not. i just don't want to force them into feeling they'd have to support me over and above their own feelings on the matter. We end up in close relationships, family relationships, because of our history, and the fact that we feel differently about how and why we got there later on, doesn't mean they have to be jettisoned for our fulfillment as people.

If sedj is unhappy with the discomfort around her, pull back,find a different path. As far as I can see, the end of the transitioning road isn't turning into a female. No pill or treatment currently exists for that to happen. It's just the final degree of integration at this point of medical knowledge and possibilities.I walked along a cyprus beach yesterday and fell into conversation with a guy who took me as female, ( i can tell the difference between when i'm sussed or not ) which, by implication would mean that in his perception i'd always have to have been female, born female. If i'd been standing there with full reconstructive surgery would that have made me any more female to him?

[Sejd]

Jandebs, I hear you on your experience and wisdom of living your path. I went back and read all of the responses I had gotten on this original post. Clearly, I fell into the same ol' trap as I myself have seen others do on this forum, to lash out at someone because of what they wrote. In my case, I lashed out at Karen. Not smart and I admit it. However, to take this a bit further on the way let me share these observations.
I originally set out to share my own experience and asking the question: so is it worth it (understood - for you all?) I mentioned some simple facts that we all have to deal with when in transitioning. For example: this very past weekend my son who is 25 years old asked me if I wanted to go to the Sauna at a sertain spa with him. I had to tell him that I did not feel comfortable going to the spa because of my stage of trastition. Now you all here know what it means to go to the spa if you are in a mans body, but shaven all over and developing breasts. Not a good situation to be in public. For some of you, maybe, but for a lot of you, my self included - NOT. So this example as well as others is just a small part of what we have to deal with. We may be OK, about is, or not, but we have to deal with it. We do have to deal with family issues and we do have to face the children. I would so much like it if this thread had not been about how miserable or not my own life is, because I'm doing OK, but also living and feeling all of the effects of our path. This thread was not meant to be about who is more in transition or who is more perfect than others, not even about who is more happy than others. No this tread was originally thought only to acknowledge the fact that we all struggle with our individual transitions, and what are the thoughts we make ourselves about that struggle. Again, I apologize for derailing the process somewhat, but on the other hand. Maybe we all learned something more about ourselves.
Thank you all for all of your responses.
hugs
Sejd:hugs:

[Cara Allen]

Hi, Sejd!

Since your son is aware of your transition, and he asked you, why not go to the locker room, use the stall (if there is one) come out in a very largs, soft towel, and enjoy the sauna? Women go to the sauna, too?

The chance to bond with your son is very important. Or... why not get yourself a really pretty bathing suit, and put it on before you leave? Can you use the womens room to change in? If they have bathroom stalls, it might be OK... Sincerely wish you happiness, Sejd.


Jandebs, I hear you on your experience and wisdom of living your path. I went back and read all of the responses I had gotten on this original post. Clearly, I fell into the same ol' trap as I myself have seen others do on this forum, to lash out at someone because of what they wrote. In my case, I lashed out at Karen. Not smart and I admit it. However, to take this a bit further on the way let me share these observations.
I originally set out to share my own experience and asking the question: so is it worth it (understood - for you all?) I mentioned some simple facts that we all have to deal with when in transitioning. For example: this very past weekend my son who is 25 years old asked me if I wanted to go to the Sauna at a sertain spa with him. I had to tell him that I did not feel comfortable going to the spa because of my stage of trastition. Now you all here know what it means to go to the spa if you are in a mans body, but shaven all over and developing breasts. Not a good situation to be in public. For some of you, maybe, but for a lot of you, my self included - NOT. So this example as well as others is just a small part of what we have to deal with. We may be OK, about is, or not, but we have to deal with it. We do have to deal with family issues and we do have to face the children. I would so much like it if this thread had not been about how miserable or not my own life is, because I'm doing OK, but also living and feeling all of the effects of our path. This thread was not meant to be about who is more in transition or who is more perfect than others, not even about who is more happy than others. No this tread was originally thought only to acknowledge the fact that we all struggle with our individual transitions, and what are the thoughts we make ourselves about that struggle. Again, I apologize for derailing the process somewhat, but on the other hand. Maybe we all learned something more about ourselves.
Thank you all for all of your responses.
hugs
Sejd:hugs: