Been told to move out... Update

[Mitzi]

Well, it’s hit home…the threads about being discovered by the wife and told to move out.

Last Friday my wife came home from her volunteer job unexpectedly and caught me in full femme mode. She’s known of my dressing for, like, twenty years, but had never seen me dressed. She abhors it, totally closed to any discussion of the subject, but for years tolerated it as long as it remained under the radar. Occasionally in the heat of an argument she’d bring it up and spew out mean, hurtful things. A few years ago, an unfortunate mixup with an ebay purchase almost resulted in my having to moving out. I purged all and made a half hearted effort to quit, but started again before long. As far a she was concerned, I’d given it up.

So imagine her anger this time. She demanded I move out within a week, tell our three adult kids and my sister about my crossdressing, the cause of our impending separation, or she would. So I called them, they were understandably surprised/shocked but completely accepting, (what great kids and sister!) and were more concerned about our separation. My wife probably expected them to react as she has.

At first I dreaded the prospect of moving out, but as time goes on, it’s kinda appealing, the freedom from her scrutiny and disapproval.

Mind you, she is not a bad person, in fact she’s a very good person, but has issues when it comes to dealing with her spouse. She is very traditional and concerned about others’ opinion of her and her family.

In the interim while I look for an apartment, other than for her occasional irritated outbursts, we are going on as if nothing untoward has happened. This puzzles me, I’d expected total isolation from her.

Mitzi

[Joy Carter]

So sorry Mitzi. :hugs:
I don't know her or you. And speaking in general terms. Where is the love a relationship is supposed to have ?
So many girls here have suffered the same fate. I just can't see why this act of CDing, can't find some sort of understanding.

I hope in the coming days things get better for the both of you.

[Joni Beauman]

Mitzi - I am terribly sorry. If this disruption happens, I hope you find peace. I worry about the same outcome someday - similar circumstances. I think there must be that question lurking with an unaccepting spouse whether they want to commit for the long haul with a cder. Best wishes, Joni

[Daintre]

I am very sorry this had happened Mitzi. What gives me some encouragement is the reaction by your kids and sister. It must be very hard on you after all these years, surely your wife knew you dressed while she was gone. I hope that something good can happen here.
All my best Jenni

[Denise Barrett]

Hi Mitzi, :hugs:

So sorry for your situation but at the same time, glad. Before, she knew, but now she knows it's not boing to change. If we could, most of us would change I think; it would make our lives sooooo much easier. I've never been married so I'll tell you what I tell everone in this situation, if you can get her to this forum, to discuss it with the other SO's, it might make a difference. Most of all ours fears are caused by ignorance. Whether it works out with your wife of not, at least the rest of your immediate family are accepting and that's big. Who knows, that may give your wife pause for thought. I wish you the best. There will be plenty of experienced ladies here with advice so, for now, try not to worry about it too much.

With all my love and respect,:love:
Denise

[Sallee]

Mitzi
I am so sorry to hear about it I assume you have tried counseling. It seems like some thing could be worked out. It is nice that the rest of the family is accepting or at least understanding. If you wife is sold on seeing you gone I think she will be the one hurting in the future. Good luck I hope it works out...Sallee

[Melinda G]

If you haven't moved out, don't! Assuming the house is jointly owned, and you are making the mortgage payments, she has no right to demand that you move out. Many women demand a guy move out, but if the house is jointly owned, she cannot make you move out. And if you do, it tilts the divorce in her favor. If you leave, you have abandoned her, in the eyes of the law! Years ago, my wife said "I'm not happy. I think you should move out". I said, "This is my house. I'm not going anywhere"! I knew she had a boyfriend at work, and it wasn't long before she announced that she was moving out. I wound up with the house, the kids and the dog.
Many women demand a guy move out, and a lot of uninformed men go ahead and move out. But she can't force you to move out!
I wouldn't even tell anyone about the crossdressing. If she tells, and someone asks you, go ahead and admit it. If she blabs it all over the place, she may come off looking like the villain.
On the positive side, it may hurt for a while, but in the long run, you will be happier with this controlling woman out of your life.

[Kate Simmons]

I guess each situation is different Mitzi. When my wife and finally had our big blow up over my CDing, I didn't "move out" in the sense that I left, I only moved to the room in the basement since she didn't feel right sleeping in the same bed. Not only was it partly my house but I was still supporting my wife and family and realized my responsibilities which I never hesitated to fulfill. Eventually, even being in the same house was too much for her, so she ended up moving, I ended up staying. There are other factors in my case involved, including religion. Nothing bad per se, mind you but it's tough sometimes when two people have two different ideologies..
I guess it depends on the situation but in my case I had no intention of leaving and did not do so. Bottom line is that the family depended on me and I willing retained my responsibility but I reasoned that unless I committed the unpardonable sin, I had every right to stay in my own home.

[CatAttack]

omg im soooo sorry! i don't even know what to say it must be hard for you, but it seems that your children are taking the crossdressing thing very well. so i wish you luck in the future! i hope you find the freedom that you've been looking for!

[Gemma1968]

um that's not so good. melinda has the right idea, tell her to move out!

[1950sclothes]

Mitzi, I think your wife may be troubled with her own, undisclosed internal turmoil than she is with your interest.

And I can't abide people who say "Ii'm gonna tell!"

Tell then! :D

[kim85]

Where is the love a relationship is supposed to have ?
Where is the trust between both the partners aswell. Realtions are based not only on love but trust aswell if you cant trust the other person you start to have negative feelings......Not wanting to sound mean or nasty or upsupportive but if my SO told me that he/she could/would stop (which i doubt he/she ever will but im fine with it) then i found about that it was another lie i wouldnt be able to trust them again.

Im so sorry that your going through this Mitzi breakups are never easy. :hugs:
Kim
xxx

[RachelDenise]

Mitzi, I am so very sorry about your situation. I can see that happening to me one day so I do feel for you. I think you have recieved some excellent advice from the girls here. You may want to talk to a lawyer before you do anything.

[Joanna-Louise]

i can't offer anything that hasn't already been said,

I hope in long term the things that you desire work out for you, maybe in time your wife will understand, more so if the rest of your family have.

I'm sure you will find great amount of support within the forum to help you through this messy time.

Take care and good luck huni

Jo
xx

[Melora]

So sorry about your problems Hun.. I can not immagine! Your Kidds and Sister MIGHT just be a ground of strength for you now as well as the future.. Good luck to you!

[tiffanythecd2001]

Hi; i know how you feel,ive just went thru a dev 2 months now, moved out, got my own apt, now moving out again, but heres the weird part,i was driving 18 wheeler, she wanted me home, so ii said ok, so we can spend time togther, i said ok, so i got land line job or one that dint move around, i cut my pay in half to be with her, for two years was like that,at first it was fun to be with her, then i notice she was getting home latter en latter from work, even wrecked the car one night, i knew wat happen to car but she wouldnt tell me cause she done the same to me, but anyway i just acceptted it, gave me more time cd, she never did accept that, tought i needed help ,but ive been cding since 8, and will countue to do so,i think i mad her mad cause i was skinny-pretter then her she was 223, plain jane like,then she blew up at me one day, told me to move out just like that ,when i came home from work, no reason at all, only reason was i could figure out was i was intefering in her man life, and i found her out one night on the adult dating site she joined up as,and that turned into a very heated argument en told her as lest i keep in the house, and would touch her for fear of getting aids er something,she denued it but i printed her pic off , to give to lawer,
i told her i did it for her ,got off the trk cause i wanted to be with her, if i known that i woulda stayed on trk i told her, so basicly im trying to say is,all boils down to is , your suppse to trust each other, just like the marriage vows, i did ,but she didnt, so even in the long runs its hurts now, in time youl mayby find somebody whos total in tune with you and help go clothes shopping with you, i know thats what im doing,sorry for long post buts thats only way i can explain it ,thanks-love Tiffany.:hugs::love:

[MJ]

Mitzi, i am sorry to hear this .. but you lied to your wife you told her you quit
you took her trust and shattered it when she came home and saw you fully en femme ...
yes i did the same thing i should have been honest with my ex but i did not and sooner or later we all get caught ...


should we tell our S.O ... This is a good example

i wish you well
hugs

[erickka]

Hi, Mitzi, I have a wife that, unfortunately, has the same opinion of CDing as yours. We had a lot of heated arguments years ago, and , as it stands now, if she catches me again, we're through. That is pretty harsh, since we have been married 25 years. I hope all works out for you both, and you can at least remain friends. I love my wife, so I really have to be careful (kinda fly under the radar like you stated) I can't quit, since it is the completion of the real me to be a woman at times, so this battle is still going on inside my emotional being. Hopefully, as we get much older, she (my wife) may someday understand me, or at least other girls like us. Anyhow, my thoughts and prayers are with you. Erickka

[Michelle S]

Mitzi,

If you have not done so, you should talk to a lawyer before you move out.

[Kelsy]

Cding is a difficult thing to accept by some women. But she had accepted at least to the point of knowing you did it. It is always sad when a relationship dissolves. I am so sorry. You must have wonderful children and sister. This time around I told my wife before we got married and gave her total control in her decision to marry me and she has imput . if she is uncomfortable with anything we disscuss it. I wish you well!

:hugs:Kelsy

[il.dso]

What a terribly upsetting story. You are NOT alone. I hope that is of some solice to you. My situation is somewhat similiar. I told my wife about my crossdressing before we got married and she was "accepting." Now, for complicated reasons, I'm back in the closet, terrified that she'll find out again. The fear of being caught is pervasive. It's a stressful way to live, to say the least.
Please accept my best wishes and support through this wonderful website.

[Shadeauxmarie]

Mitzi,

If you have not done so, you should talk to a lawyer before you move out.

Excellent advice!

I would assume it's your home too? Perhaps sleeping in another bedroom?

Might I suggest you talk to her about both of you going to a marriage counselor?

This saddens me as well.

[melissaK]

Darkest before the dawn, when one door closes another opens, and all that kinda sappy trite maudlin crap is true, so hang in there. :happy:

On a serious note, gender counsellors know you can't change. Realistically your only hope to keep the relationship here is for her to change. http://www.avitale.com/cdcouples.htm A counsellor/therapist who understands you can't change can help. One who thinks you can change will just get you more grief.

Maybe watch "How the Grinch Stole Christmas" with her. Even the grinchiest of us can grow if we want to.

And cool points for telling your kids. That's gota be a load off your mind. Perhaps their acts of accepting you will be like the Who's of Whoville who still had Christmas even though it wasn't dressed up like Christmas, and your grinchy wife will see this and her tiny heart will grow 50 sizes in one day . . .

Hugs,
lissa

["Mary"]

Good advice here. Don't move out. You haven't committed a crime or anything. What if she discovered some other vice that is frowned upon - some legal gambling, smoking... The kids are grown and gone, right? She can't throw you out! I'm a million miles away, but I wouldn't think for one second that going quietly will keep her silent.

Mostly, I'm sorry you are going through this and feel bad for you. Hang in there.

Diana

[charllote34]

Mitzi , i was so upset to read of your plight , what a terbible thing to go through .I wont take sides as i dont know you both but that must of been hard on the pair of you ,thinking of you and i hope you can stay friends for your childrens sake .Wish people who dont understand why we do this could see just how much mental hurt we can go through xxx

[Stacye Rose]

And speaking in general terms. Where is the love a relationship is supposed to have ?

"Heaven hath no wrath like a woman's love turned hatred,
Hell no fury like a woman scorned"
William Congreave

I don't think I would give up my home without a fight either. I did that once, three years later and I still don't have a home of my own.

Ladies,
There may be cultural implications here that have yet to be touched on.
In some cultural sub-groups in this country CDing and the "shame" it might bring are a very strong taboo. I say this based on the spouses insistence that family members be told.

I hope things work out well for you Mitzi. Hold your head up high. fix your lipstick, smile sweetly, and tell the B**ch to go to H*ll!!

[Julogden]

Hi Mitzi,

So very sorry to hear this. At least take solace in the fact that the rest of your family has accepted things and haven't rejected you.

My gut instinct is that you should not tuck tail and run. Why should you move out of your own home? You have rights and you haven't committed any crime, you haven't hurt anyone.

If you're fed up with her, and want to move out, then that's different. I know that feeling from when my marriage fell apart.

Good luck,
Carol:hugs:

[docrobbysherry]

My wife and I separated about 8 years ago. Divorced about 5 years ago. She knew I CDed, but my "sports on TV watching", was a much bigger problem for her. I was VERY broken up by our split. I continued seeing our therapist for over a year after our split. It helped me a lot. My CDing helped also. As, it increased dramatically with me living alone part time, (I have kids we share).
Mitzi, my guess is that u have other problems in your marriage, besides your dressing. Which doesn't sound like it is so advanced, that she has a legitimate complaint. Your kids r grown, maybe this a chance for YOU to grow, too. Move on with your life, and leave the missus behind, if u must. After I got over our breakup, I recovered quite well. My life is SO much better since I received my freedom! I loved my ex, but the love was gone, after several miserable years of living with her constant b----ing!
Wishing the best thing for u in your situation. I DO feel for u!
RS

[Melinda G]

Forcing you to tell the kids, that you are a crossdresser, and that it was the reason for the divorce, was over the line too. That is personal stuff, and should not be spread around. Suppose you had forced her to tell the kids that she was lousy in bed, and that was the reason for the breakup. Not much difference.

[sissystephanie]

As a very long time CD'er, I will add my :2c:! This situation is exactly why I have said many times over, tell your intended before you get married!! If she rebels, then find another girl! One who will be accepting, as my late wife was.
Of course, it is too late for that now, but there are other things that need to be looked at.

On the issue of moving out, those ladies who advised you not to move are correct. If you are making the house payments, even if only partially, then she has no right to force you out. My recommnedation is that you get her to go with you to a marriage counselor, who is familar with Crossdressing. Since your children and your sister are O.K. with it, why can't your wife accept it? Does she think you might be gay? You need to have some conversation with her, which is why I suggested the Counselor. She might have some problems herself. One question that will probably be raised is, are you still being a real husband? Remember, she married you as a man, not a woman!

Hope everything works out for you!!!

Sissy/Stephanie

Girl on the outside, man underneath

[Melinda G]

I would suggest to anyone who gets caught CDing, not to make a full confession and tell all. The best reply would be to say it was just normal sexual curiousity, and you tried it a couple times. For every wife or SO who accepts it, probably a dozen don't. A full confession just makes it worse in most cases.
I crossdressed through 17 years of marriage, without getting caught, until I finally shaved my legs. One morning in bed, my wife noticed my legs were shaved, and asked me if I shaved my legs. I should have just told her I wanted to see how it felt. Instead I came clean, and told her everything. I even showed her some Polaroids I had taken, which I was rather proud of. She didn't say much, but the look on her face said it all. Within a couple weeks, she had a boyfriend at work, and moved out a few months later.
I'm normally a pretty honest person, and don't hide much. But I really think you can carry the honesty stuff too far. Besides, women have plenty of secrets, they are never going to tell you. So, for all you serious CDers, part of being a woman, is learning to keep secrets. :D

[ReneeCD]

Mitzi,

I feel for you. I got "officially" divorced two years ago in April, but our marriage (of nearly 18 years) had been going south for a long time.

It's really none of my business, but had you told her of your CDing before you married? I've always felt that that was a good idea, rather than hiding it and having it discovered sometime in the future. Actually, BOTH of my wives knew before marriage. Obviously, that doesn't guarantee anything!

The others are right--you DON'T have to move out. You have rights too, even though your wife might not think so. Try to keep your head about this (I know, it's hard!) and don't be intimidated by her threats. If you have been honest from the beginning, this thing is her problem, not yours. Both my wives and I had been to marriage councellors in hopes of saving the marriage(s), but both left councelling in disgust when the psychologist told them that what I was doing was neither illegal, immoral nor fattening. They don't like to hear things like that. I think both agreed to consultation because they were of the opinion that the councillor would side with them and chastise me for being a bad boy (girl?). When that didn't happen, both were convinced (at different times, of course) that the doctors didn't know what they were talking about.

After two failed marriages, I am understandably gun-shy of a third marriage. My girlfriend is VERY understanding and, even though she is unsure of her long-term feelings about my CDing, is willing to explore the possibilities. She has been through a bad marriage herself, and is in no hurry to remarry, although we do talk about it. I am convinced, by my own observations, that if a prospective spouse is negative in any way about CDing initially, don't look forward to things improving. In the beginning of a relationship, we are all on our best behavior. As time goes on, and the "new" wears off, those things which were minor irritations become amplified. I should have seen this in both my previous marriages, but was blinded by what I thought was love (maybe it really was!).

Sorry for the long ramble, but your thread struck a chord. I'm still working through the anger and pain two and a half years later. My ex has remarried (for the fourth time--I was ol' number three), and lives three states away (yay!). I have resolved to not let it happen for a third time (a bad long-term relationship, that is). The main thing is to COMMUNICATE (duh!) and remove problems as soon as possible. My girlfriend and I have been doing that so far (over two years now) and it sometimes hurts feelings, but in the long run makes for a much healthier relationship. Neither of us wants the other to change who they are just to accomodate the other. We both did that during the lives of our marriages, and it is an awful thing.

I wish you well. Hang in there, and stick up for yourself! You are NOT a worthless piece of shit just because you crossdress! I'm sure you have made many sacrifices for your wife's sake. Be strong but gentle. Caring but adamant. You have rights as much as she does.

Good Luck!

Renee

[MsJanessa]

My wife and I separated about 8 years ago. Divorced about 5 years ago. She knew I CDed, but my "sports on TV watching", was a much bigger problem for her. I was VERY broken up by our split. I continued seeing our therapist for over a year after our split. It helped me a lot. My CDing helped also. As, it increased dramatically with me living alone part time, (I have kids we share).
Mitzi, my guess is that u have other problems in your marriage, besides your dressing. Which doesn't sound like it is so advanced, that she has a legitimate complaint. Your kids r grown, maybe this a chance for YOU to grow, too. Move on with your life, and leave the missus behind, if u must. After I got over our breakup, I recovered quite well. My life is SO much better since I received my freedom! I loved my ex, but the love was gone, after several miserable years of living with her constant b----ing!
Wishing the best thing for u in your situation. I DO feel for u!
RS
WOW!! she left you because you liked to watch sports on TV too much?? I've practiced law for 18 years and that's a new one---if she was that much of a control freak then you are right---much better off w/o her. Love the red gown in your avatar btw.

[Lizzie Kay]

Look likes your dealing with a lot of anger from her, right now. It might be best to protect yourself by filing for separation first. Personal experience has painfully told me,that being the respondent to the petitioner is not a good situation to be in with a soon to be Ex that is angry. Hang in there girl, but protect yourself too!

[Violet]

I'm sorry for the pain you are going through, Mitzi. That really stinks.

I don't have much else to add, except that a lot of ladies have given some great advice in this thread.

[RobertaFermina]

I hear you are puzzled.
She probably is too.
I doubt this makes much sense to either of You.
Then again, You never found out how to fully integrate your whole selves together into your Relationship.

You did not say that you were hurt, though somewhere beneath your puzzlement, you may well be hurting. If so, please accept my sympathies. I welcome any grief you wish to express. Better to let it loose, honey.

As for now, you are in the Adventure of creating a new way of life for yourself and your Relationship.

Move Out...I find that conflict with women is incredibly flexible. Whenever I took what they told me literally, I feel I missed the point.

I got told to move out once, and she interpreted my move-out, and subsequent distance from her as an "ending of the relationship."

It wasn't what I wanted, nor what she wanted....yet in all the confusion, it is what came to pass.

It may be a very important time to communicate more closely with your partner, even as you are steadfast in your intention to move out. The result could be a best possible relationship under the circumstances.

I hope you find your strength and happiness, whatever comes.

:rose: Roberta :rose:

[joann07]

Mitzi,

Sorry to hear about your situation.
It's unfortunate, but I hope that things will work out in the near future.

Hugs!

[Mitzi]

Gurlz, thank you all for your input.

My wife and I have been married some 50 years (yes, the avatar is a recent pic), but ours has not been an idyllic union for some time. There were many, many times I’d considered leaving, but just couldn’t bring myself to do it. Yes, part of it was the fear she would out me to the world. Even so, I’ve always cared for her, and wanted no harm to come to her. As I mentioned in my opening post, she is a very good person, but naive in many ways.

We were going through a difficult period back in the early 70’s. At the urging of a friend, I went to see a psychiatrist alone. Of course he only heard my side of the story, but he said if my description of our rather dysfunctional relationship were accurate, she indeed had unresolved issues, which she could never acknowledge, and would never accept counseling.

The issue of fighting for my rights…that would only raise the conflict to an ugly level, I don’t want that. As far as I’m concerned, I’d like to remain friends. And under the right arrangement, I believe she will be accepting. Even now, we are planning to spend Christmas together with a daughter and her kids. I don’t believe she hates me, just finds me difficult to live with and thinks she would be a whole lot happier if I weren’t around. The crossdressing just gives her a defensible justification.

Yes, it’s really liberating to have opened up to my “kids” (they’re all older than many of the gurlz in these forums). They all reacted as I thought, or hoped, they would. My wife’s threat to out me to them no longer hangs over me.

While I’m not anxious to move out, I don’t dread it as much as I’d thought.

As someone mentioned maybe our staying together despite our problems may have been a cultural thing.

Mitzi

[Kimberly Marie Kelly]

:2c:You should not move out till you consult with a lawyer, as the act of moving out can be considered abandonment in the world of divorce and could hurt you big time, later on. Espeacially, if you move out. That would also be considered the Date Of Separation in the world of Divorce and could affect how your monies and properties are divided in the future.

Simply put, Don't move out, seek counseling for you and your wife and seek advice of a good divorce attorney. Then if you need to move out you are educated. Went thru a divorce 8-9 yrs ago where part of the reason, she said, was my CD'ing.

Good luck, hope things improve, but remember life goes on even after separation and a divorce. Especially, if your children are understanding.
:happy:

[Sally2005]

One thing you might want to ask her, is if you don't move out, what will she do? This might get her to think about an alternative arrangement that might work for both of you. Maybe instead of moving out, go on a vacation to let the emotions calm down then decide what to do. It seems a bit radical to make such a huge change after 50 years. I wish you well.

[tammie]

Hi Everyone: Well not to be left without getting in a word. Do everything suggested. To be forewarned is to be forearmed. Information is crucial to a good decision here.

Now that U will be protected financially here is what is going to happen. U and your SO will reach an agreement on the property.

Because she has lost her trump card IE the threat to "out U", so now she must deal with U in some reasonable fashion.

U get your own place and life. U can be dressed all the time as U want without anyone's permission or judgment.

U can shop for new tops or skirts shoes or bras as U want and wear them too. Hooray for U.

[Melinda G]

Maybe instead of moving out, go on a vacation to let the emotions calm down then decide what to do. It seems a bit radical to make such a huge change after 50 years. I wish you well.

I disagree. You might find the locks changed when you get back. Stick around and look after your interests.

[Nadia-Maria]

I am puzzled since you tell us (and did repeat it) that she is a *good person*.
I am very tempted to believe you, however I would be more inclined to believe that *you* are the "good" person in the couple, and I wonder whether you are not a "too good person".

You are a sensible person, and maybe you hesitate to fight for your rights.
Nevertheless, you have to do it, I mean.

I know for experience what a divorce is, and how bad can a presumed "good person" become when faced to a too kind husband.

Good luck ! We are all with you.

Nadia-Maria

[Marcie Sexton]

I am sorry for your loss, but from the things I see "between" the lines, I am assuming that the kids are grown...

The second thing is they along with your sister has an open mind and willing to accept you...

...if I am right all this is good. The sad part is your wife isn't willing to accept all of you...Perhaps it is best you cut your losses and run...

What amazes me is the lack of understanding the wives and so's have for us...My wife perhaps put it best when she said that we really are the same person underneath all the makeup and clothes...

Good luck...

[S. Lisa Smith]

Wow, I'm so sorry this has happened. Be cool and calm (I think you are), don't do anything rash and consult an attorney. Don't know you or your wife personally, but this may blow over or it may not... Be prepared and have a plan B!

[jill carey]

hi Mitzi,
I am very sorry to hear about your situation, but do I get an inkling that ma-by your wife doesnt really want you to leave, would she sit down and talk about it, talking it out could help.

[melissaK]

Gurlz, thank you all for your input. . . . My wife and I have been married some 50 years . . . Even so, I’ve always cared for her, and wanted no harm to come to her. As I mentioned in my opening post, she is a very good person, but naive in many ways. . . . she indeed had unresolved issues, which she could never acknowledge, and would never accept counseling. . . . The issue of fighting for my rights…that would only raise the conflict to an ugly level, I don’t want that. . . . staying together despite our problems may have been a cultural thing.

Some thoughts, don't know if any of these shoes fit you or not.

From your last post it sounds like you view your relationship with your wife as having strong caretaker elements. It perhaps explains why you don't want to escalate the conflict with her, it would be taking advantage of someone who you don't believe is on equal ground with you for whatever reason. Sometimes patients/wards/students rebel against their caretakers/teachers because they want to be on equal ground . . .

And as for "fighting for your rights," I know many who have walked away from homes and possessions rather than fight for them. I'd count myself among them if asked.

Relationships aren't about material things - they are about intangibles of trust, love, compassion, self. Fighting over the "things" is really fighting about what the "things" symbolize in the relationship. Thus, litigation is a mirror to the soul of the litigants. Those litigants who care to pause and look in the mirror can learn something about themselves. Not fighting over the things says something as well.

A friend of mine coined a phrase about life - "change is manifest." So even after 50 years your marriage turns a page and adds to the ever changing story of your life.

hugs,
'lissa

[Mitzi]

melissaK...

You are sooo perceptive. That is exactly how I view our relationship. Of course, the caregiving goes both ways. I try to shield her from hurt in financial and other areas in which she is vulnerable, and she has provided me a comfortable life, if under often trying circumstances. I guess that's what love is after the glow is gone.

Your observation on fighting over material things are also my thoughts so well expressed. I'm hoping we'll never get to the divorce stage, and that she'll be satisfied with not having to deal with me on a day to day basis.

She is a giving person who's always trying to help others, me included. She considers me selfish and self centered because I fall far short on that count. Everyone who knows her thinks highly of her, but also knows she's headstrong.

Of course, I consider myself a "nice guy", but it's a biased opinion...:D

Mitzi

[Butterfly Bill]

Only one question, who is the one who owns your house? If you do, tell her she is the one who has to leave. If it is joint ownership, continue getting the a divorce you should be getting and fight for it in court. If it is a rental, just boogie. Whatever you do, stop living with her. She is doing you more bad than good.

[krisla]

Mitzi, sorry for you trouble, but I think it is great your children and sister were accepting. I wish your wife could accept but that is not in your control and maybe it is not in hers, tradition and prejudice are hard masters. It may be better in the long run, I will keep your family in my prayers

Kris

[karren]

Don't see many of us out there...
former teamster

[Kimberly Marie Kelly]

:2c:In my previous post I suggested to not move out till you consult a lawyer etc. to protect your interests in the marriage. To leave and leave everything to your SO is very noble and generous, but I am not saying keep everything or take everything.

Remember you contributed and provided much of what both of you attained, you are entitled to your half to provide you a new start, remember she is asking you to leave and after a divorce many women become vindictive expecially after they obtain lawyers, and see what they can get from you. In my divorce it started with an agreed 50/50 split between us, but then she wanted more and I had to fight to keep half. If I didn't fight to keep it as close to 50/50 as possible I would have been unable to live anywhere.

Needless to say it's taken 8 years plus to recover financially. Be fair with her but don't roll over and capitulate on every item. Remember who's asking for who to leave, you need to be able to live on your own and have a relationship with your children as well.

Also remember pre-marrital assets, anything you owned outright before your marriage is yours after the marriage. Be fair to yourself and to her, don't become greedy but don't give her everything either, you need to be able to continue your life, not shoot yourself.:happy:

[Mitzi]

Not sure anyone wants to hear any more of my situation, but I realize I may have given an erroneous view of our relationship.

It's not that we're at each other constantly, on the contrary for the most part we're very friendly, if not intimate, but whenever something comes up to irritate her, she says mean and hurtful things, not limited to the CD ing, justifying her words as "speaking the truth". Trying to respond is pointless, she just digs in deeper Then it'll blow over until the next episode. Even though I understand what makes her behave this way (thanks to the counseling session), it hurts.

It's been a week now. After the first few days of venting her rage, it's as if nothing happened. I thought maybe she's relenting on making me move out, but then she dropped a remark on how good it's going to be when I'm gone...

Go figure...

So many of you advise I protect my rights. I know you mean well. I don't really care if she takes the house and stuff, as long as I'm left with enough resources to live decently. I don't intend to remarry, cohabit? well, that's another matter...:o

Mitzi

[Melinda G]

It's been a week now. After the first few days of venting her rage, it's as if nothing happened. I thought maybe she's relenting on making me move out, but then she dropped a remark on how good it's going to be when I'm gone...

That statement right there ought to tell you something. She's calm and cool, because she knows you are leaving, and she's just bideing her time. It's very noble of you to want to protect her, and leave her everything. I doubt she feels the same way about you. Once a woman makes up her mind that it's over, self preservation kicks in, and she wants as much as she can get, with little regard for your needs. Right now, you are feeling somewhat guilty, and still care for her. But a few years from now, you will wish you had considered your own needs a little more.

Also, in many cases, discovering the crossdressing, is just the last straw in a marriage that was teetering on the brink anyway.

[JennaDesire]

I can understand what you are going through as I have a similar situation. I am married 13 years with 3 kids. I have recently been found out by my wife. She had the same kind of reaction. For some people there is absolutely no understanding about this. I have been given the ultimatum to stop or move out. I know that stopping is out of the question. At the moment she thinks I have stopped. I am waiting to see what happens when she finds out that I have not. Reading your story it is exactly the same situation I find myself in. I admire you for being strong. This is not an easy thing to go through.

[Mitzi]

Jenna, yours is a far more difficult situation to resolve. I could never have moved out while my kids were growing up. Not for their sake, I just couldn't bear to be without them. I don't know what I would have done, had this occurred back then. Joint counseling would be a start, but if your wife is like mine, she'd never go.

After 50 years together, I have a sense of how she functions. When enraged, she'll think of the worst possible ways to punish me, but after she calms down, she's fairly rational. Besides I'm sure our kids will intervene if they perceive she is being totally unfair.

I seriously doubt either of us will remarry, so what remains of our joint property will pass onto our kids one way or another.

Mitzi

[Mitzi]

The last several days have been as if nothing had happened. I was starting to think maybe after cooling off, she'd changed her mind. I need to make a commitment soon on an apartment I've located, so I broached the subject this morning.

Her nonnegotiable demand...if I won't quit, I'm out. As far as she's concerned my dressing is a selfish choice that I can choose to quit but won't. Maybe so, but I know I don't have the willpower to stop. Sooner or later I'd be dressing, lying about it, until I get caught the next time. All the while her suspicions would always hang over me. I don't want to lie and sneak around her back anymore. She probably thought I'd repent and promise to quit. So a new chapter is about unfold in our lives.

I'm not angry, a little sad, but in a way relieved. It doesn't change the way I feel about her. I hope even in absentia she'll let me continue as her caretaker in areas she is vulnerable.

Mitzi

[Lucy Bright]

So many of you advise I protect my rights. I know you mean well. I don't really care if she takes the house and stuff, as long as I'm left with enough resources to live decently. I don't intend to remarry, cohabit? well, that's another matter...:o

A few years ago my first wife wanted me to move out as well. It was nothing to do with the CDing, though some other aspects of the situation sound very familiar - particularly the "speaking the truth" mantra, which she used to give even her moments of self-indulgent spite an aura of pained righteousness.

At that time a dreadful che sera sera lethargy can take hold, in which you're very tempted to say, "Take the house, my needs are few, my shoulders broad, my skin thick, I'll be okay, I don't want a fight, etc". That happened to me, and it took quite a while and the intense persuasion of some close friends and family (and a lawyer) to get me to pull back from what seems, in retrospect to be a total lapse of judgement and (in my case) self-respect. (But then self-respect is something I've only been learning in the last couple of years.)

PLEASE don't make any such committment at this point. You will almost certainly regret it later - and you absolutely certainly won't win any brownie points from your wife for taking the bullet. If my experience is anything to go by, you could go out and hang yourself and she'd still feel like a victim because you used her favourite rope.

Now, of course your wife and mine are different people, but if this sounds at all familiar, just stop and take a few weeks or months to think this through, and GET A LAWYER!!

Sorry if this comes on a bit strong, but I was there not so long ago, and I'd not like you to have to go through the same experience.

Kisses,

Lucy

[Mitzi]

I’m pretty sure most of you are tired of reading this ongoing soap opera, but finally a happy ending. This morning, she declared sternly, “Don’t dress around the house anymore!!”

She’s often said she would be happy if I were gone, quite apart from the dressing, but faced with the reality of not having me around, she perhaps realized life wouldn’t be all that good after all.

So, happily, we’re going back to our sometimes dysfunctional, but in our own way, mutually caregiving, marriage. The upside of all this…coming out to those closest to me, and to not having to lie about my dressing any more. Hopefully it’ll be a don’t ask, don’t tell thing.

Mitzi

[Di]

Well glad there is a semi happy ending for you.Things do look brighter.:hugs:

[AmandaM]

Do you think you can get away with telling her that you "won't do it around her"? Then, there's no more sneakin' and stuff. It's not a perfect solution, but it gives you your release valve.


I’m pretty sure most of you are tired of reading this ongoing soap opera, but finally a happy ending. This morning, she declared sternly, “Don’t dress around the house anymore!!”

She’s often said she would be happy if I were gone, quite apart from the dressing, but faced with the reality of not having me around, she perhaps realized life wouldn’t be all that good after all.

So, happily, we’re going back to our sometimes dysfunctional, but in our own way, mutually caregiving, marriage. The upside of all this…coming out to those closest to me, and to not having to lie about my dressing any more. Hopefully it’ll be a don’t ask, don’t tell thing.

Mitzi

[Melinda G]

I’m pretty sure most of you are tired of reading this ongoing soap opera, but finally a happy ending. This morning, she declared sternly, “Don’t dress around the house anymore!!”

She’s often said she would be happy if I were gone, quite apart from the dressing, but faced with the reality of not having me around, she perhaps realized life wouldn’t be all that good after all.

And you want to hang around for that?
Well.........good luck. You're gonna need it.

[Mitzi]

In my euphoria, I neglected to mention I'll still dress whenever I can, but at Carla's in San Jose, about 40 minutes away. I have a locker and 24/7 dressing privileges there. Had I confined my dressing to doing it there, instead of bringing stuff home, this crisis might never have happened.

My wife knows about Carla's, so her "not around the house" tacitly gives me permission, however reluctantly, to "do it" outside of her consciousness. I know it will continue to be a sensitive issue, but I can just keep my mouth shut when the rants come, and not have to lie.

Yesterday was good. She was so much more relaxed and seemed at peace.

Mitzi

[Mitch23]

i'm pleased that you have managed to sort things out and that you both seem to have found a level of compromise that you are comfortable with.

mitch

[Cai]

This:

She’s often said she would be happy if I were gone, quite apart from the dressing, but faced with the reality of not having me around, she perhaps realized life wouldn’t be all that good after all.



does not sound like a functioning or healthy relationship, to be brutally honest. It sounds like she doesn't want you, she's just afraid of being alone. Not really a situation you want to remain in.

But I'm glad you're happy. Maybe I'm wrong and it'll work out. One can only hope.

[Mitzi]

I know it sounds insane, but as an old WW2 song goes..."with all your faults, I love you still, it had to be you, it had to be you..."

After 50+ plus years and even hearing how much happier she'd be without me, I still far rather be with her than without her. And deep down I'm sure she feels the same way. It's her internal issues that get in the way sometimes. Somewhat like a child who shouts "I hate you, I hate you" in a fit of anger...

Mitzi

[tracigirl_tv]

Mitzi, I have been following your thread with interest. I wish you (plural) well....peace and happiness (no mean feat).

*huggggg*

[RobertaFermina]

Mitzi,

I'm glad you have each other.
The best part of these tiffs is when they are over, and you remember how much you are a part of each other.
Enjoy your Marriage, however you can!

I hope to catch you around Carla's or one of her events someday !

:hugs:

:rose: Roberta :rose:

[Bethany_Anne_Fae]

I know it sounds insane, but as an old WW2 song goes..."with all your faults, I love you still, it had to be you, it had to be you..."

After 50+ plus years and even hearing how much happier she'd be without me, I still far rather be with her than without her. And deep down I'm sure she feels the same way. It's her internal issues that get in the way sometimes. Somewhat like a child who shouts "I hate you, I hate you" in a fit of anger...

Mitzi

Mitzi,

You certainly sound like you have a heart of gold. Hang in there, keep the faith, and you may find the peace you seek out of it all.

All I can offer you is an internet hug of support.

*hugs*

Zara

[kathy stockings]

i tell every tv who is single that i chat with to avoid marriage unless the partner is VERY supportive.

i thought i could stop dressing, so i went ahead and got married - big mistake. i couldn't tell her ahead of time because i was afraid she would blab it to everyone.

[sybercom11]

i have not read every single reply to this thread, so forgive me if this has been addressed.

but i once read that if CDing is the only issue between you and your spouse, then you are doing quite well. my wife is accepting of my CDing and at our house the issue falls somewhere between my leaving dirty dishes in the sink and failure to provide her with clean cat dishes.

otherwise, she loves the way i treat her and she has even told me that she was attracted to my soft side from the start.

so i would think that if a wife leaves or husband is told to leave over CDing, there might be some other problem there.

[Melinda G]

Sounds like that Luther Vandross song, "I'd rather Be Miserable With You, Than Happy With Someone New.
Actually the title is I'd Rather Have Bad Times With You, Than good Times With Someone New. Same thing.

[Raychel]

I am so glad that you were able to work things out with you wife. Just take it slow, and give her some quality time that she needs.

[melissacd]

Sounds like that Luther Vandross song, "I'd rather Be Miserable With You, Than Happy With Someone New.
Actually the title is I'd Rather Have Bad Times With You, Than good Times With Someone New. Same thing.

Each of us has to handle this in the way that feels best to us. While this may be the case, it is still what she wants to do at this point in time.

Now this being said, I have been following this thread with great interest because it mirrors my situation so well. After 10 years of Being miserable with her than happy with someone new, she and I both agreed that it was time to move on so that we could be happy somewhere else. That is what we are doing and I know that for me it is the right path, but it is not the right path for everyone.

She is still my friend we just know that we cannot live happy lives together anymore.

[Mitzi]

Just had to add this...in one of my last posts, I said...

I know it sounds insane, but as an old WW2 song goes..."with all your faults, I love you still, it had to be you, it had to be you..."

Yesterday, as I was picking out a birthday card for her, that very song came over the store speakers...made me misty...

We are getting along well, she seems content, and so am I.

Mitzi

[Julogden]

Hi Mitzi,

I am SO glad to hear that things are working out for you two, you deserve happiness.

Carol:hugs:

[obsessedwithpantyhose]

im sorry i just dont get it......it seems women would rather live with a drunkin wife beater than with a cd,,
we r NOT hurting anyone or out raping kids or selling/duing drugs or even cheating,,,,i just dont get it,,F$%n people..

Mitzi dont fall for her dont ask dont tell,, she already has told u how she feels about ur dressing,this just the calm b4 the BIG storm,,u say u dont care about the house or who gets what?? well if thats the case i feel u should split while ur still in one piece even tho she is the one with the problem and should be the one who should leave

you would not be the person u are if u didnt crossdress,, my X knew of my cding from the start and she didnt try to change it because then i would have been a diferent person.....

this whole post is ALL my :2c:

closed minds should come with closed mouths

[MsToriJones]

Mitzi, maybe in time you can tell her that there are support groups for wifes of CDs and that you would not mind her joining if she would like some answers or to understand "why" just a little more. give her links to support groups and say no more If she is curious she will go look and learn or she will remain as she is. She made need assurance that you are not trying to get someone else that you don't want someone else. That may be part of her fear is that you are "gay" or "bi" and looking for men?

All you can do is 1) assure her it is not about her and that you don't want anyone else but her 2) that you don't mind if she seeks support groups of women just like her 3) that you never wanted to hurt her in any way

I am not in a relationship with CD but just a gg looking in from the outside

[MsToriJones]

im sorry i just dont get it......it seems women would rather live with a drunkin wife beater than with a cd,,
we r NOT hurting anyone or out raping kids or selling/duing drugs or even cheating,,,,i just dont get it,,F$%n people..


Not all, just those who won't take the time to get to know anyone who is "different" from what they THINK is "normal"

:2c:

[Mitzi]

Thank you, Carol, and Ms Tori for you kind words...

I sense that the kids knowing and being accepting has made her more relaxed. Like me, I think she realizes life together is far better than apart, just don't let the dressing intrude, do it elsewhere.

It's a better outcome than I could have hoped for...

Mitzi

[obsessedwithpantyhose]

:thumbsup: :hugs:

[Carla Mel]

I just caught the thread now, tried to read all of it.
I'm really happy of the happy end, since I feel both need each-other. On your side it's clear, even if you could find some attractive in leaving your reluctance was showing that your attachment was more that the expression of your intentions as care giver. On her side I feel she was extremly shocked, and the first reaction was of course excessive and instinctive. As you say she is not always rational and can be excessive and knows how to hurt you. The first reaction was perhaps ment against you, not in her benefit. She probably did not think about what was convenient for her, but wantied to hurt you as you had hurted her. Then she acted as if nothing happened, probably she was thinking a little bit about her own life. Perhaps she thought about you (the real you for her which is not the crossdresser that she probably wants to ignore). She told you she will be happy when you will be gone probably she ment hurting you again.
Now it seems that she is recognizing she need your relation. It is a huge concession she made, took time? Not so long.
Now I expect they will be times when she will be hurting you again and again, she knows how and you know she will. And you will have long periods of calm "don't see don't tell", I hope you will enjoy them.
You were planing to see together your children, it will be probably great for everybody, as it could shows the crisis is over, and both recognize that 50 years and still loving all your faults (except one??)

Kisses
Carla

[Shelly67]

Mitzi , I,m sorry you must be really hurting , and my heart goes out to both you and youre wife.
You say she ,s known for over 20 yrs ? Well thats a long time and you,ve a real history with youre partner , sadly it resulted in an ultimatum .That wasnt fair , but catching someone enfemme really blows a womans mind...... I admire the way you,ve handled it tho, you were totally honest and upfront to those who really love you - they showed support and a tried understanding - well done to you all . I think that may have annoyed youre wife a little , truth be told . Perhaps there is only one way for you to continue relations with youre wife... in short , be calm , be open and go very slowly .
If you have to move out in the future, try to keep things as calm as possible . Many a scornful is said in the heat of the moment , and sometimes its impossible to be heard when you say sorry and really mean it .
Its a pity you cant come to an agreement , regarding youre dressing at home . Is ther anyway that you could dress ...say one night a week in a seperate bedroom / part of the house ?? After all , yes , I agree we all are respective of our homes , but , it is only bricks and mortar.........
If things dont go well it does come to where you,ll be living elsewhere , give it time , at least you,ll have to communicate on issues , so perhaps an understanding will develope and hopefully be the foundation toward a happier future for you both , be it separate or together .
Don,t forget , whoever said absence makes the heart grow fonder wasnt telling porkies ........
Good luck .

[Stormgirl]

ugh just wow

[Mitch23]

thank you for updating us again -its really good to know that you guys are working through some difficult and painful issues

mitch

[Hali]

In my own opinion if you see your SO becoming unnecessarily pissed/mad/angry/unforgiven/irritated at your CD they might have one of the following issues:

1-She hates being a woman (wat is it in being a woman stuff)
2-has high religious and "moral" expectations from people.
3-She might have bits of BISEXUALLY deep...deep...deep inside her.
4-she is not too happy with the relationship.
5-she is shocked at the turn out of events e.g. things are beyond her expectations and doesnt know what to do.

[Mitzi]

Sosoft...

I responded to a PM

Both my wife and I are of Japanese descent, born and raised in the US. She is anything but the stereotypical submissive "Japanese" wife. She's headstrong, argumentative and proud, but at the same time vulnerable. Had I known how she would be, I would never have married her, but after being together for so long, I don't want to lose her.

She is very sensitive about how others perceive her, and by extension, her family. So she wanted a husband without blemishes...but she got me. She's very casual about sexuality/gender issues as long as they don't affect her.

Regardless, I love her in my own way. She seems content, now that the crisis is over.

Mitzi

[Charlotte Cross]

Hi Mitzi,

I'm not sure exactly how I read you in this one. Seems like you're more relieved than anything, and in some ways, I can understand why.

What else I read here is that your dressing could not have been the only problem in your marriage and that your SO was looking for an excuse to end your relationship. She used you wearing a dress. There are a whole lot of worse things than that.

Lastly, unless the house is in her name, STAY! Who makes the house payments and pays the bills? Who supports the marriage financially? Will a separate apartment prove to be a financial burden for you?

Don't give her the satisfaction. Fight this thing. You didn't hurt anybody.

One thing for sure, she can't divorce you for infidelity.

Get mad as hell, and FIGHT BACK!!!!

[sybercom11]

[QUOTE=obsessedwithpantyhose;1154202]im sorry i just dont get it......it seems women would rather live with a drunkin wife beater than with a cd,,
we r NOT hurting anyone or out raping kids or selling/duing drugs or even cheating,,,,i just dont get it,,F$%n people..


There is something to this! My brother is divorced. He and first wife did not get along. My one sister is separated; the other (we think) tried to OD on drugs because of her relationship. (Half the people I talk to say she did try; half say it was accidental). I know lots of people who are divorced.

Anyway, because I have sissy in me, I treat my wife like a queen. She would be foolish to dump me and she knows it.

Just today she was saying the woman across the street lamented to her that her husband does not help around the house and cannot even cook something for himself! He's good at finding time to get out on the golf course though.

I do all the housework; I can cook a full-course meal. I take care of all our household finances and make sure the cars are maintained. I also give great oral sex without asking for reciprocation.

Hopefully, wives will be like mine and take these things into consideration.

[Tree GG]

Mitzi, we've spoken of this before and I get exactly what you're saying and applaud you for knowing what's best for the two of you, even if it doesn't sound like the "ideal" or "CD utopia". I believe I understand your reasons.

I'm glad it's working out and you are both content. I wish you continued success. :hugs:

[Celeste]

Mitzi-Now that the first real meltdown is over,I would take the time to consider your feelings a little more.Is this amount of control by another what you really want for the rest of your life?By her asking you to out yourself to family,what Doe's that really say about how much she cares for your privacy in other matters as well?Have you thought about how real freedom from a controlling spouse could benefit you emotionally?

I was terrified of divorce and our separation was unrelated to cding .Now that it has been 3 years,I can't imagine I ever allowed someone to dictate my actions period.For me, years of marriage and the fear of being alone, clouded my judgment.I stayed in "people pleasing mode" way to long.I never said," what about my feelings".It sounds like you've fulfilled many obligations in your marriage and it could be time to take a full inventory of what you truly want for the rest of your life.

[yms]

Your story about getting caught reminds me exactly of an incident with my first wife. All I can tell you is that for me, ending that marriage was the best thing that ever happened to me.

It will be a little weird at first, and you will feel ups and downs, but int time you will feel better about things. Hang in there.

Good luck.

[Mitzi]

Celeste and Yvonne...

Celeste expressed exactly how I felt at the time. And the thought was appealing. Now my family knows, if I chose, I could leave. And yes, I'm in a "people pleasing mode", but then so is she, at least for her. But you know what? I want to stay with her. That could change, but for now, that's how I feel. Almost sounds like the plot of some tearjerker movie.:happy:

Mitzi

[Shelly67]

Stay with it ....fight for all those years together , but this time with total honesty......like I previously wrote , see if you can find a common ground solution ... Is there anyway you can dress , say once a week in private - but at home ?? In another room perhaps ? Maybe even suggest she spends time out alone ,doing something she likes . You did write she knew of youre dressing , and came home unexpectidly to find you enfemme . I fear that most women to find hubby dressed in this manner to be horrified that he was doing something in private , secret even and consider it deceitful .For the two of you to part over this issue after bringing a family into the world , I,m sure one day it would be looked back upon with deepest regret.
There is a secret to be told and learnt here - communicate ...don,t brush it under the carpet and suffer in silence , and that goes for both of youre views . As for one anothers morales ....well , somethings must be put asided for the sake of peace......
If it all goes wrong in the long run , at least you,ll both have to agree on one thing - you both tried .

Wouldnt the world be a nicer place if we all talked openly more .
Be a damn sight cheaper for some too , as only solictors and lawyers are the only winners in reality.
good luck.

[SherriePall]

Mitzi -- With all our advice, only you know what is best for you. Good luck and take care.