CD and submission - chicken or egg?

[Lucy Bright]

My cross-dressing these days is (or seems) relatively non-sexual in nature. That is, dressing sexily makes me feel sexy, but that's not the prerogative of crossdressers after all! Most of the time it just feels right - as discussed on this board many times. However...

When I first began to dress, and think about dressing, back when I was 12 or so, I had quite a few sexual fantasies. In some I was a girl, but in others I was a boy who was forced to dress and live as a girl - which I found a huge turn on. I believe this isn't uncommon among CDers, and the standard explanation is that it's our minds' way of getting around the censor: if we're forced to do it then we don't need to feel guilty about it, right? That may or may not be true: I'm not sure. Whatever the reason back then, though, I still find that I'm attracted to sexual fantasies in which I'm forced to be submissive - not usually through a physical threat but more often something like mind control (I'm scared of violence even in sexual fantasies, see!). Nowadays it makes no difference whether I'm male or female in these fantasies, and these days they seldom or never take the form of 'forced fem', as I think it's called, but still - there's a family resemblance with those early fantasies.

So, what I'm wondering - apart from the usual question of whether other people have had the same experience - is, did my submissive tendencies come about as a result of my finding a way to process my CDing tendencies, or did my CDing fantasies take a submissive route because I was already that way inclined? Is there a cause and effect here, and if so in which direction?

(One last memory, which makes me think my sub life goes back a long way, is from when I was about four, and had a simple jigsaw showing a dog with a suitcase, and I used to snuggle under the covers and imagine the dog had shut me in the case and was taking me off somewhere as a damsel - sorry, little boy! - in distress. I remember finding that most exciting!)

ETA: Rereading this it looks as if my sexual life revolves around submission, which would be a gross exagerration. It doesn't - but I do find that one form of attractive fantasy.

Kisses,

Lucy

[Kate Simmons]

Not sure Lucy. Even from an early age, I always considered myself a "tomboy", so I've always been empowered as a "man" or a "woman" and have never been that submissive in nature. Seems to go against my grain. I'm am interested in seeing what others have to say about this however.:happy:

[Pretty Sissy Dani]

My femme fantasies are almost always submissive in nature (like you, hypnosis and mind control play an important part). My earliest turn-on for this was a Mighty Mouse cartoon featuring a mouse being hypnotized and dressed in the girliest of things:

Svenglai's Cat (http://s153.photobucket.com/albums/s233/prettysissydani/?action=view&current=singin01.flv)

[RuthieER]

My sexual desires were frequently (though not exclusvively) submissive, even when before I discovered crossdressing and still considered myself hetero. I realized that I was bisexual and started dressing at about the same time, and the two aspects of my sexuality/gender identity have been bound closely ever since. I used to say I was attracted to men as a woman, and to women as a man, but it is more accurate to say that I am a femme submissive and a butch dominant, regardless of the gender of my partner. When I am the dominant one, my partner must be particularly submissive; I like to do to them what I want to be done to me if I was dressed. If I were to be dominant while crossdressed, my partner would have to be even more femminine and submissive than I am.

Ruthie

[SarahHall]

I would say that I enjoy being dominated by a man while I am dolled up in lingerie.:hugs:

[Carly D.]

So you're asking why did I start dressing.. well I got so turned on by women dressing up.. and when I started to dress, I would in fact be turned on sexually, relieve that area, and then undress and feel ashamed for a while.. then as I got older I would feel less ashamed and would wear at times without the sexual relief, and just wear to wear.. and now I pretty much just like the way it feels to wear panties, pantyhose, skirts and heels.. I think it was sexual before and might in fact still be, but with age comes an understanding of what the clothes are.. I think when I first started buying clothes for myself I saw myself as being a super model, and buying with the idea that the clothes made me look like I was beautiful like the women I saw wearing them, but now I see what I really look like through the pictures that I have taken of me and I realize that I am in fact a guy who wears womens clothing, and even look that way, or at least I think I do.. I am not a pretty girl (woman) when dressed up, dream as I might, but am, in fact, a moderate to somewhat ugly girl.. (homely) they might say, but I am also not out trying to pass in public.. my point here is that I just like the way the clothes feel, regardless of whether I look like a girl or not..

[Vivian Best]

I can't remember ever giving any thought to submissive/domination issue. To me, I was just a girl plain and simple. Oh, I struggled with the issue of why a boy would dress like a girl but I don't remember much role playing.

[docrobbysherry]

I am an "in control" type of person. For many people like me, men AND GG's, submissive fantasies or activities r a big turn on. To want to be helpless, or under someone else's complete control is quite common. The "forced femanisation" is probably one form of that fantasie.
Maybe my CDing started as an extention of my old bondage fantasies. However, it has grown into it's own catagorie of fetish now, and is quite sexual for me.
RS

[Mitch23]

i went from closet undie fetishist to full tranny by being in a submissive relationship with a pro domme who loved to feminize her men. so i guess the answer is yes ... or no ...

mitch

[AmandaM]

I'm willing to try! Oops, did I say that out loud?

[CatAttack]

i think ive always had feminine traits but i dont think it stemmed from my cding, but it might have, since ive wanted to be a girl since i could remember. and because it goes so far back, i cant really say how much its influenced me. if i didnt always want to be a girl would i still have feminine traits? i dunno! but im glad i do :happy:

[Samantha43]

I am more the dominant type. My CDing goes way back to my early teenage years. Even then I was one of the dominant kids in the group I ran around with. I don't think my feminine side has really ever influenced my personality either way. Cding was a sexual turn on for me years ago, but now it is more of an emotional release. I feel comfortable and content while showing my feminine side. When it is time to put it all away and go back to being the male me, I am fine with that too.

[MsJanessa]

As you might know I"m the Domme type, not submissive---getting dressed in leather, silk, satin etc brings out My dominant nature.

[Nicki B]

Being feminine to me means being strong - not submissive?? :strugglin

[Lucy Bright]

Being feminine to me means being strong - not submissive??

I agree! But I wasn't really equating being feminine with being submissive, so much as thinking about the ways in which ideas of submission may have been involved in my first learning to deal with the fact of my own femininity, and the heady cocktail of guilt and sexuality that came with it. I suppose I'm asking about the etiology of my CDing, rather than what it is or what it means to me now. Now, as I said, although I still have sub tendencies, they aren't especially associated with my feminine side. (And in fact, the dominant figures in my fantasies both then and now tend to be female - so go figure...)

Kisses,

Lucy

[katieblush]

At first i just dressed at home,then came the going out bit by bit dressed and still i had to push further so i started dating guys allways being in the submissive role,its strange i had to reach a goal of feeling as close to being a female as i could,after a few years of this i settled down with my first long term female partner.So CDing for me has been a bizzare journey.

[Bethany_Anne_Fae]

This board has had some really interetsing threads going!

Okay, from my point of view, while in female garb I had not even considered this subject in the slightest. I'm also weird in that compared to many there is just no sexual anything for me in it. Its always about the clothes and letting that feminine side out for a short time.... get my FIX so to speak.

Anyways, two weekends back while I was out and about as my Fae character femme self... a man came up to me dressed in some very nice finery. He obviously had spent a lot on his recreation of a Lord. He stepped in front of me and as I went to sidestep... he shifted to remain in front of me. All the while maintaining a constant and powerful gaze at me.

I actually hesitated and took a step back.. he then smiled at his companions and offered me his hand.

"I am sorry M'Lady, but I simply cannot allow you to flit about these grounds without a PROPER escort. I know that with thine wings you could asurredly fly, but allow me to show you about"

I actually accepted his hand and let him lead me around like a regal Queen for the next hour. It was so AMAZING how that felt. He led and I followed.

The clincher is... in my normal everyday life... I am almost totally a Dominant. Percentage-wise I'm a 90/10 switch, and my wife is the opposite being almost completely a submissive.

It was quite an experience being on the opposite side of things for a while ;)

[sherell]

I agree! But I wasn't really equating being feminine with being submissive, so much as thinking about the ways in which ideas of submission may have been involved in my first learning to deal with the fact of my own femininity, and the heady cocktail of guilt and sexuality that came with it. I suppose I'm asking about the etiology of my CDing, rather than what it is or what it means to me now. Now, as I said, although I still have sub tendencies, they aren't especially associated with my feminine side. (And in fact, the dominant figures in my fantasies both then and now tend to be female - so go figure...)

Kisses,

Lucy


I seem to have been down the same route as you Lucy in my CD .
In my early years I mixed it with sub fantasies and still enjoy it ocasionaly but in male mold Ime allways dom

[Raquel June]

I have fantasies that go either way. I think the ones that involve me being dominated really show up more when I'm feeling really frustrated in life. But in general, as a guy I'm very turned on by pretty solid curvy girls (usually a Jessica Rabbit type, but maybe an Amazon-type), and the largely involve these girls being fairly dominant and very aggressive. But I'm also really turned on by short and/or skinny girls and this usually involves much more dominant fantasies for me.

When I think about dressing up, there can be submissive fantasies that go along with that, but when I'm actually dressed up, I'm kinda in Amazon mode myself. And when I go out with other CDs at CD-friendly clubs, I definitely feel in charge (I really don't want to say "masculine") in that crowd, so it brings out a much more dominant/aggressive thing with me as far as sexual ideas are concerned. I just can't feel submissive wearing tight clothes and tall boots. I think that's a major psychological problem (and certainly narcissistic) that I'd like to have a 3-way with my guy-side, femme-side, and a little girl with a nice butt ;)

[dhampir]

Hi Lucy,
Great question! It got me to join up. I love the quality of introspection that I am seeing on this forum. Good stuff.

I still have mainly submissive fantasies, but I am trying to allow the CD to become what it wants. I want to just spend some time alone in drag without it having to be released in fantasy. We will see.

BTW, I have found that I have married women that tend to be emotionally abusive when what I really wanted was an occasional paddling.

Best wishes,

[Michelia]

In male mode I am very dominant. I do not intend to be. I do not always like or agree with it. Neither does my wife. I work on toning down this tendency, though.

In female mode, I am pretty submissive and my wife loves it. I do not necessarily think being female is submissive or agree with it philosophically, but it is the way it is.

Sometimes I think she enjoys it so much we may venture into a little more dom/sub play in the future. Right now we are having too much fun as it is.

Michelia

[Lucy Bright]

Hi Lucy,
Great question! It got me to join up. I love the quality of introspection that I am seeing on this forum. Good stuff.

:o Blushing with pleasure - thanks! Good to have you here.

Kisses,

Lucy

[Bethany_Anne_Fae]

:o Blushing with pleasure - thanks! Good to have you here.

Kisses,

Lucy

Indeed it was a good topic :)

Got me thinking a lot on this subject now

[Eugenie]

Hi Lucy,

I'm not at all submissive. I don't like pain so S&M is not in my life, not even in my fantazies...

However, I think that, if a gentle caring lover managed to seduce me, very nicely, I would love abandoning myself to his desires... Howver, still not S&M though...

Never happened to me... Unfortunately...
:hugs:
Eugenie

[Sally24]

In my case I think the submissive nature and fantasies came first, but not by much. I don't know if they are related at all but I do find it common when talking to other CDs.

[Lucy Bright]

Hi Lucy,

I'm not at all submissive. I don't like pain so S&M is not in my life, not even in my fantazies...Eugenie

Oh, nor me! I'm far too much of a wimp. Hypnosis, now, that's another matter...

Kisses,

Lucy

[Casey Morgan]

Lucy, as with so many things crossdressing is simply a part of who you are. If I had to guess, I would say that exploring your CD side made you more receptive to your submissive side. They have probably both been there for years, quite independent of each other. And like any two random things in your life it's always possible that there's some overlap. But that doesn't mean there's a cause and effect thing there.

BTW: S&M is different than, but can be part of, B&D (aka bondage) and D/s (which is where the submission comes in, for our purposes anyway).

Incidentally, I'm trans and submissive. Those are two different parts of my life, so if I "mix" them it's just what I feel like doing at the time. Sort of like SF BDSM. You know?

[kathy stockings]

i remember being submissive long before i began dressing as a girl. (Submission is such a THRILL!)

[Bethany_Anne_Fae]

i remember being submissive long before i began dressing as a girl. (Submission is such a THRILL!)

and on that note...

(Domination is such a thrill!) lol

Authority needn't raise its voice ;)

[Lucy Bright]

Lucy, as with so many things crossdressing is simply a part of who you are. If I had to guess, I would say that exploring your CD side made you more receptive to your submissive side. They have probably both been there for years, quite independent of each other. And like any two random things in your life it's always possible that there's some overlap. But that doesn't mean there's a cause and effect thing there.

Well Casey, that's certainly the way it feels. The two were harder to distinguish when my CDing had a greater sexual element. I've noticed that as CDing has become less sexual (I've been en femme for the last 48 hours, a rarity for me, without any noticeable sexual effect at all), the submission element has become more detached from it. I have a tendency to excessive introspection, though, so I'm always ferreting about for causes and influences - another lifelong obsession!

Kisses,

Lucy