Men in dresses

[Kelsy]

Years ago when I was quite young I remember my mom coming home from work and telling a story about a peculiar man. She worked in a gift shop that also sold womens clothing. This gentlemen ,who was known in this small town as a quirky kind of guy, had the audacity to enter this shop and attempt to buy a dress!! He was vilified and veiwed as a dangerous person, children were told to stay away from him. "tar and feather the pervert".:eek: Thank God things have changed some since then!! That was the first time I had been exposed to the fact that some men want to wear dresses - just like me!! Are there any stories out there of first time experiences hearing that there might be others with the same desires as you???

Kelsy:happy:

[Tracy_Victoria]

Sorry, but as far as I'm aware these people still exsist. As far as I'm Aware we still can not freely do this, with out those thoughts entering some peoples minds.

Thankfully the views of the majority of the many is changing, and most are not bothered by a guy in a dress, however there will always be a few small minded people, that only see the negative, of what we do, rather than just the fact that the reason we do do this, is because we enjoy it.

It will be a long while, before we all can freely express our selfs as we wish, but I'm sure it will come one day, but sadly I don't think it will be in my lifetime.

[Kate Simmons]

I first read about it as a teenager in Midnight (a weekly tabloid)in the 1960's. I said to myself:"Damn, you mean I'm not alone in doing this?" Surprisingly, the article was very well written and not derrogatory at all. At least I knew then I wasn't the weirdest kid on Earth like I thought.:happy:

[katieblush]

The "Panto Dame" who allways gets mocked,i guess this view of crossdresseing made me aware at a young age of the publics grasp on how to act when faced with a man in a dress.:sad:

[alter_3]

I remember being on a business trip, waiting at the airport and browsing through the books in one of the stores in the terminal, and there was a book called something like "Men Who Dare to Dress as Women". I almost passed out, since I had very little clue about others doing this (pre Internet). If I hadn't been there with a fellow business person, I might have been able to pick up the book and look at it, but instead I had to keep up normal appearances. That rocked my world!

[Ruth]

Attitudes have changed over time and will no doubt change again. In Shakespeare's time all the female parts in the theatre were played by men, and were done in all seriousness, not as some kind of parody.
How we got from this to the pantomime state of affairs, with the dame as a parody of an aging woman, and the principal boy as a parody of a young man, I really do not know. The attitudes behind this have obviously contributed to the mistrust and ridicule of crossdressers which has existed. Maybe it's on its way out again (we can hope).

[Nicole Erin]

Being a child of the 80's, the first time I ever heard about it was Boy George in that band "Culture Club".
I thought it was hilarious back then, little did I know...

Of course not long after, there were bands like Poison [They looked stupid tho, not feminine.]

[Ðarissa]

First time I noticed that others dressed was when watching MASH and saw Klinger dressed as a woman. LOL. If that doesn't count then I remember reading the paper and in the 'advice' column (Ann landers or one of those ladies) answered some women who discovered her hubby crossdressed. That's what I remember anyhow...


Being a child of the 80's, the first time I ever heard about it was Boy George in that band "Culture Club".
I thought it was hilarious back then, little did I know...

Of course not long after, there were bands like Poison [They looked stupid tho, not feminine.]They did look pretty nice IMHO on that one album cover, 'Look What The Cat Dragged In (http://usuarios.lycos.es/hardrockbuenosaires/caratulas_cds/caratulas_cds/poison_lookwhatthecatdraggedin_front.jpg)' but they didn't fully dress, just did the makeup thing and long hair.

[MJ]

my first experience was from a news rag that outed a British top super model her name was " Tula " omg that day change my life for EVER ..
because i now know i am not alone .. AND if *he * can do it so can i , and let me tell you Tula is one amazing woman

looking back trying to buy womans clothing and shoes was my biggest problem the 80"s lol and now ... well it's too easy :heehee:

[Lucy Bright]

Attitudes have changed over time and will no doubt change again. In Shakespeare's time all the female parts in the theatre were played by men, and were done in all seriousness, not as some kind of parody.
How we got from this to the pantomime state of affairs, with the dame as a parody of an aging woman, and the principal boy as a parody of a young man, I really do not know. The attitudes behind this have obviously contributed to the mistrust and ridicule of crossdressers which has existed. Maybe it's on its way out again (we can hope).

Funny, but this morning I went to pick up my daughter from a rehearsal at a local school, and there was a poster advertising some kind of Xmas celebration where the sixth-form boys (aged 16-18) were going to be in drag. It read (from memory) "[Name of school] Ladyboys! Wince as they Mince! Come and watch grown men in dresses mincing and prancing..." (and much more in the same vein). I'm not a big one for political correctness, but I do think that any boy at that school who happens to be CD will be getting a very clear message that his condition is risible and to be treated with contempt - however much it's 'all in fun'.

It just depressed me, rather.

Kisses,

Lucy

[Ruth]

That school thing sounds very bad to me. I'm not in favour of encouraging CDing in teenagers - I see no reason for it and anyway a few of them will make that choice privately and for their own reasons - but if the subject comes up at all it should be portrayed in a tolerant and non-judgemental way. "Ladyboys", "wincing"and "mincing" seem to be outside the non-judgemental part of the spectrum as far as I can see.
Though it would be difficult to complain to the school without them getting one or another unfortunate impression about you.

[Lucy Bright]

Though it would be difficult to complain to the school without them getting one or another unfortunate impression about you.

It's not even my daughter's school: she just rehearses there. I'm not sure if that would make complaining easier or harder.

Kisses,

Lucy

[Dian077]

I have to say I have been interested in dressing all my life, but it was not until I got on the internet for the first time, in the mid 90's, that I found out there were others like me, Heterosexuals males that like to dress in womens cloths. But with young childern at home, and a not so great married life to start with, I have been unable to dress as I wish.
Now that I am single again and my kids are all almost grown, I hope to change that:happy:

[Deborah Jane]

I remember as a child [about 10 or 11] walking through Brighton with my family and seeing my first crossdresser out and about. My dad made some comment about look at that weirdo, who does he think he is? After that i knew i could never tell my dad about the fact i like to do the same thing. About 10 years after my dad died i came out to my mum and she has been ok with it!

[Zee]

I have had these feelings all my life... I have always wanted to dress, be a woman since I can remember. But the first time I realized that there were others like me was in the mid 80's when I saw a documentary on a man who underwent SRS (though they called it something different back then, I can't remember). It really opened my eyes.

[Stephanie-L]

I have been dressing since I was a 12 year old kid, about 1974 or so. The first time I came across a serious handling of CDing was in the magazine "Nugget", a "mens" magazine that leaned towards the kinky end of the spectrum. That was in about 79 or 80. They used to have a CD/TG columnist who went by the name Haley Tiresius, who wrote about the problems we face in our gender bending. She gave advice about dressing, shaving, makeup, shopping, and some of the social and psychological aspects of CDing. Looking back some of her advice was not even close to correct, but the positive atmosphere she created definately helped me to accept myself. Sadly her column only lasted a few years, and the magazine went out of business a few years ago.........Stephanie

[Mitzi]

I saw a banner ad with a link called "Men in Dresses" just yesterday. I think it was on a website linked by a poster on this forum. It led to a shopping mall in San Jose (CA) and to what appeared to be a music store. Is that a musical group?

We (Japanese) celebrate a festival called Obon in August. A part of the celebration included an old folk "dance" called Bonodori. There were always a number of men who danced wearing dresses, with no pretense of trying to look like women. A few would don traditional Japanese kimonos. On one such occasion, I was probably 10 or 11 years old, one of the dancers was in traditional kimono, face discretely hidden, and wearing hose and sexy high heels. No one would have suspected she was a he, except the dance involved the dancers joining in a chorus here and there, and he joined in in in his unmistakable male voice. He obviously was flaunting his CDing. Seeing him/her in hose and heels really turned me on. And that was long before I knew what being turned on was...

Mitzi

[Daintre]

Stephanie, I remember "Nugget" magazine very well, and of course Haley Tiresius, I always looked forward to her column and of course her pictures. I agree, sometimes her advice was way off base, but at the time, I do believe that it helped me start to accept myself.

[TxKimberly]

When I was in my early teens, I walked in while my mother was watching a talk show of some sort and they were discussing crossdressers. My Mom turned to me and asked me what I thought about it. Of course the first thing to go through me head was "Aw, hell, she DOES know and is pumping me for info". Once my heart stopped pounding so hard I formulated what was probably the most articulate answer my mother had ever received from me on any topic. I was so scared that moment is still a clear memory:
"I think it must be a very intense need or desire to drive someone to do something that is so far out of the acceptable norm".
Yeah, I was like 14 - how could this answer not send up flags to my Mother? lol

[Penny]

Men in dresses! Not me! Why the very thought!

Woops! I forgot to change my avitar. :eek:

:hugs:

Penny

[celeste26]

Just to spill the beans on my age, I remember Christine Jorgenson and Virginia Prince ! Actually got to meet Virginia Prince in person while shopping in a TG store in Los Angeles. (probably 1972) and I was full grown then.

[michelle812]

My mother dressed me at a very you age as a girl. It stopped somewhere around age 8. Well, when I was 11 or so I started to play in my sisters closet when I was left alone. I was very confused and enjoyed it.

In the late 90s AOL be came big and I got a computer for x-mas, I remember that night while Mom was cooking X-mas dinner I found a chat room called "wearing hers". I had no idea that there where other's that like to wear the clothes of the opposite sex for a so called hobby. I am so glad that I found that chat room, I no longer feel weird.

I now dress part-time and I am not yet passable, I have a g/f of 12 years and she knows about my past. We have been to a therapist, and it somewhat helped. My therapist is a female and she sees nothing wrong with crossdressing. My g/f does not like the fact that I dress as a women when she is not at home. She tolerates and wants nothing to do what so ever with my expensive hobby.

Michelle

[tricia_uktv]

Times are changing and a lot of the reason for that is becausewe are changing them. The more girls who go out there and risk ridicule (what the heck thats their problem) the closer to acceptance we become. It is getting better and will get better still. Just wish I was 18 again - but then don't we all

[Ms_Judys_pet]

In the 18th Century boys were commonly dressed in shifts and things similar to dresses until they were 6ish. Boys and girls dressed alike.
i'm not sure how long after the custom continued. But it was present for some time before.
susie.

[Dian077]

Well. I have to say that I got my start from my sister. She would dress me up when I was very little. After I got a little older, probably about 5 or so, my brother would pick on me so much I made her stop. It was closet time from then on. My best friend from high school like pantyhose like myself, but never got any further in discussion than that. We would both take some of our mothers things and "camp out". Man was that fun times. That was the only time I have ever wore anything female in the presents of someone other than my ex wife.
Oh what memories.

[Lucy Bright]

That school thing sounds very bad to me. I'm not in favour of encouraging CDing in teenagers - I see no reason for it and anyway a few of them will make that choice privately and for their own reasons - but if the subject comes up at all it should be portrayed in a tolerant and non-judgemental way. "Ladyboys", "wincing"and "mincing" seem to be outside the non-judgemental part of the spectrum as far as I can see.

I've been thinking about this, and you're right. So, I've drafted a letter to the school (which turns out to be C of E)...


Dear Head Teacher

I am not a parent of one of your pupils, but I was at your school today waiting to pick up my daughter from drama class. While I was waiting for the children to finish their class I was admiring some of the art work and reading the notices, when my eye was caught by one which was advertising the "[name of school] Ladyboys" (or something very similar). The poster invited us to come and watch your sixth-form boys in drag, and to "wince as they mince" in suspenders, etc. The idea that "grown men" [sic] might wear dresses was presented as inherently risible.

Now, I'm not sure of the exact size of your intake, but I think it would be safe to say that there will be several dozen boys in your care who are intensely confused at the moment about their gender. Some 4-5% of men say that they have cross-dressed at some time, whether out of curiosity, for fetishistic reasons, or because they feel themselves to be transgendered or transsexual. In almost all cases this practice started in childhood. Although I am sure that the Ladyboys are performing in a spirit of good-humoured fun, I would ask you to consider what message this sends to the pupils you have who are currently cross-dressing in secret and in shame (and I assure you, there will be some). Will they feel that their school is a place they can expect to have their concerns and fears listened to seriously and sympathetically? I doubt it. You wouldn't dream of making fun of gays, racial minorities or the disabled in this way, I'm sure, but for some reason cross-dressers - very few of whom choose to be the way they are - remain fair game for contempt and mockery.

Your school is far from alone in taking this attitude, but given its Christian ethos I hope you will not take it amiss if I bring this matter to your attention, and ask you to think through the implications of your actions.

Comments?

Kisses,

Lucy

[occdresser]

this is the reason that I put on a ,dress,wig,make-up pantihose,nylons,high heels,lipstick,mascara,bra,paintedtoenails,painted fingernails,panties- did I miss anything? If a guy walked out of his house in only a dress & not shaven how would you interperet this person-as some wierdo right?

[Jaydee]

Great letter Lucy

Jaydee

[CatAttack]

i remember when i was really young maybe 3 or 4 i saw a man singing in drag on tv. i said something like "i want to do that" and to that my mom said something along the lines of "no you dont"

[annieelmira]

Flip Wilson's "Geraldine"... Klinger from MASH when I was younger... never thought anything about it... Odd thing is that when I was younger I always assumed Dolly Parton was a man in drag too...

[Dawn Marie]

I may date myself, but I remember when Cristine Jorgenson came back from over seas after her change, and what a fan fare she received.

[EDNA]

Yes and I am sorry to say. That there are people. That stiil put CDs down.b Plus I get upset. When I hear that a Man. Would just CD to pick up kids.

The CDs and Female Impersonators. That I know. Had a standing Rule.
That kids and other CD mates. Were a NO NO. In which we all still stand by.

[Jamie14]

I was in high school channel surfing when i came across a news special (20/20) or something that did a story on a guy that crossdressed. It showed him shopping in a mall en femme with a gg and it all of a sudden hit me that that would be something fun to do when I got older. I had not done anything before that- I just remember thinking how jealous I was of this guy- being out in public in beautiful clothes with a beautiful woman. Weird, huh?

[wishonastar]

I saw a women on TV that said that men should not wear skirts or kilts, because they do not have nice looking legs!

Like all womens legs look nice.

More double standards and ignorance.

[Nicki B]

Good letter, Lucy.. Go, girl! :)

[Vivian Best]

This gentlemen ,who was known in this small town as a quirky kind of guy, had the audacity to enter this shop and attempt to buy a dress!! He was vilified and veiwed as a dangerous person, children were told to stay away from him. "tar and feather the pervert".:eek: Thank God things have changed some since then!!

Kelsy:happy:

Have they?

[Alex!]

Guys wearing dresses?? That's just plain weird.


Oh. Wait...

[Elizabeth Ann]

Lucy,

This is a really great letter. I know that the "mental health" issue is sensitive on this forum, but you might consider adding after:

"You wouldn't dream of making fun of gays, racial minorities or the disabled in this way, I'm sure, but for some reason cross-dressers - very few of whom choose to be the way they are - remain fair game for contempt and mockery."

something along the lines of:

"Even if you consider cross-dressing to be a mental health problem, is there ANY other mental health issue that you would expose to such ridicule?"

Elizabeth

[Lucy Bright]

Thanks for the encouragement! I emailed the letter yesterday (your good suggestion came just too late, Elizabeth) and got one back from the deputy head pretty much instanteously, thanking me for bringing the matter to her attention and promising to look into it. She said she hadn't been aware of the notices - so it's possible that the sixth-form pupils had done it off their own bat, or that it was the brainchild of some teacher who hadn't thought it through.

Of course, she could have just been fobbing me off - I guess I'll find out when I next go to pick up my daughter from drama class - but I don't think so. And at least it's planted a seed of awareness that there is an issue here.

And thus my career as a public campaigner is born...?

Sorry to Kelsy for slightly hi-jacking this thread, by the way. To answer the original question, I think my first introduction to men in dresses was British comedy of the '60s and '70s. They were everywhere, from Monty Python to Dick Emery. I particularly remember a Two Ronnies series called *The Worm that Turned* about a Britain in which the women had taken over and men and boys were forced to wear dresses. How I longed to live there!

Kisses,

Lucy

[Ashly]

I don't want to insult people...so I only wear a skirt or kilt in public...Honestly.... I think, you should be able to pass 100% in public..no questions asked. :2c:

[Michelia]

I would not venture trying that in a small town where everyone knows who you are if you do not want to risk total ostracism. We get lost in the anonimity of the larger towns and cities.

Michelia

[JoAnnDallas]

Lucy Bright........Lets not forget "Benny Hill". He did a lot of CD skets.

[Lucy Bright]

Lucy Bright........Lets not forget "Benny Hill". He did a lot of CD skets.

Right enough - so he did. Also the Goodies (Tim Brooke-Taylor in particular). In a pantomimish way it was pretty ubiquitous. Less so now, Little Britain apart.

Kisses,

Lucy

[Carly D.]

One thing that is good about the way I look is that nobody thinks twice that I could be buying a dress for myself to wear.. not even if the dress was a perfect fit.. (big).. however I do wonder what people (men and women) think when they see me looking through the pantyhose or tights or panties/bras section... do they wonder?? I think certain clothing is ok to look through as a man looking for clothing for their girlfriend/wife (dresses or skirts or tops) but other clothing is questionable at best (ph, tights, bras, et.al.).. or that's always been my mindset as to how I feel.. oh yes and shoes are probably ok as well, I mean most women might go to a store then tell their boyfriend what they want and what size, or that is what I would tell the clerk should they ask me...

[Ashly]

.... however I do wonder what people (men and women) think when they see me looking through the pantyhose or tights or panties/bras section... do they wonder?? ......

Most of the time I wear skirts ...jeans skirts that is...I go to through any section to get what I want to buy. Do people look? ...Certainly they do...I just don't care..that's all

[Violet]

That was a great letter, Lucy. It's something I have noticed now, since I learned my boyfriend is a CD, the public attitude towards CDing. I'm sensitive to jokes about it on tv or in movies, and I find many of them to be extremely offensive.

My first exposure to cross dressing was when I was very, very young (seven or eight, maybe?). I was shopping with my mom and there was a man, fully dressed, picking out clothing. I remember being curious about it and that one of the ladies who worked in the store told my mom that the man was a regular customer. My mom explained to me at that time that some men feel they were born with the wrong body, that they feel like women inside and that they can take steps to become a woman. She also explained that some men just like to dress in women's clothes without wanting to become a woman.

Obviously, it made an impact, or I wouldn't have remembered it, but I am so grateful right now to my mom for providing me with a background of acceptance, tolerance and a willingness to ask questions and figure things out before immediately judging a situation. In a lot of ways, I wish that everyone had a mom like mine, someone who teaches their children that there are alternative lifestyles out there and that even if it's not something they want to participate in, the people who do so are not inherently bad or evil or weird.

Bigotry on any level disgusts me and I am hopeful that with all the changes that have been made in the LGBT world in the last 25 years, that sort of bigotry will become a thing of the past. The changing of societal attitudes takes an awfully long time, but some great (though not enough) progress has been made.