I 'disgust' her, yet she says she's 'supportive'

[rachel_jean]

I'm quite confused.

My wife told me that's she thinks it 'disgustting' whenever she sees me dressed (at all), but, still claims to be 'supportive'. This doesn't make sense to me.

A little background. Thursday night, we were getting ready to go out (the kids weren't home) and I was trying to decide on which of my mens dress shoes to wear. Since the dress pants I had on were a bit long, I put on my black boots w/ a 3" heel and jokingly said to my wife that they went better with my pants (due to their length) better than my shoes.
That did it. She starts saying 'Why do I always do this to her' and she thinks it 'disgusting', but, won't say why. We 'talk' for a few minutes and she claims to still be 'supportive'.

The 'disgusting' part actually sounds like something her mother would say. My wife confided in her several years ago, when she needed someone to talk too. My wife has also lost a lot of weight and quit several meds since this past spring. Her mother has been telling her I just want her to lose weight so I can wear her clothes. This is where I could easily see her mother saying 'that's just disgusting'.

What confuses me the most is that at times she seems to be OK/tolerant of it. Last weekend I ordered some clothes on line, a top, bra and a few skirts and then made a second order with several items for her. She didn't appear 'disgusted' at all when I told her about it or placed the order for her stuff (and my bra) with her. Further, one package came today, she looked in itand pulled out a skirt, held it up to herself (we're the same size now), said she liked it and might have to borrow it.

Sorry for the rant, but, can someone truly be disgusted by something and still be supportive of it???

Thanks,
Rachel Jean

[CatAttack]

i guess you could call that 'tolerance'...

god i hate it when people say that 'tolerance' is the next step for society. thats just dumb, because tolerance still implies hate or dislike (kind of like to put up with something unacceptable). acceptance is a way better word! sry about the off topic
http://www.stickergiant.com/Merchant2/imgs/125/pmg014_125.gif
vs
http://www.kalilily.net/weblog/coexist.jpg

edit-
you should get her the tolerance sticker, and tell her when she's ready you'll let her move on to coexist! haha

[tricia_uktv]

Rachel,

I think the best way is to talk it through with her. I was in the same position and my partner appeared to support me but I took it to far. I notice you've got kids and that, I suspect is the problem. She will want to protect them from your strange behavior ha-ha. Find out whats really bugging her,

Good luck

[lisa_e_love]

It sounds like she may have a gut reaction to be disgusted by a man in a dress but deep down doesn't really see what's wrong with it. But there's no way to tell that for certain without long hours of conversation.

[rachel_jean]

i guess you could call that 'tolerance'...


I'd be happy w/'tolerance'.

Another example, we spent the day together Wednesday and we bought her 2 new pair of boots. I told her I'd buy them for her if I could use the pair we bought few her a month or so ago which are too big for her. She said OK. (BTW, the sales girl told her she was very lucky as most husbands wouldn't help her the way I did in the store). Anyway, a little while after we got home I just put the older boots on with she made a comment about me wearing them. Just boots and the rest was guy stuff ???

Regarding the kids (teenagers), we've agreed not to say anything to them right now, therefore I don't dress, at all, when they're home which is the vast majority of the time.

Thanks again,
Rachel Jean

[annieelmira]

The only real parallel I can draw from this is my mom.

She LOATHES the fact that I'm gay. Gay intimacy is very disturbing and disgusting to her (she of course uses much more colorful language than that) but she loves me because I'm her son and supports me for being who I am. This could be the along the same lines as what your wife is going through...

You are her husband and she loves you. Part of that love is supporting you (insert standard wedding vows here). Your being a cross-dresser is a part of what makes you you... so while she might find the idea of Henry in a dress pretty icky (especially if you have horrible legs :tongueout), she supports and acknowledges the fact that you are still the Henry she loves.

Also, depending on how long she has known, she may flip-flop.. it takes a long time to come to terms with new things. Heck, I've been out 15 years and my mom STILL brings some weird crap up every once in awhile.

Just my :2c: of course

[rachel_jean]

Annieelmira,
Wow, that really does sound very similiar.
My wife has also known for about 15 years

Her mother has been giving her a lot of grief all year with extra tossed on when we told her we were going to visit some of my family, out of state, for the holidays.

We both love each other and I'm backing off for a while, as I usually do.
Just hope her 'flip' doesn't 'flop';)

Rachel Jean

[annieelmira]

Annieelmira,
Wow, that really does sound very similiar.
My wife has also known for about 15 years

Her mother has been giving her a lot of grief all year with extra tossed on when we told her we were going to visit some of my family, out of state, for the holidays.

We both love each other and I'm backing off for a while, as I usually do.
Just hope her 'flip' doesn't 'flop';)

Rachel Jean


Well, now it ALL makes sense! Your mother in law is just jealous because you make a more beautiful woman than SHE does! LOL

In all seriousness though, sounds like your MIL is the real issue here. Your wife seems to be seeking her approval on things (which is a Dr. Spock issue) even though she herself is ok with it. So, lose the MIL and keep the wife! ;)

[Kris]

My opinion is that she hasn't kicked you out...... so you are blessed with a supportive wife. LOL Please understand that I don't feel that way but this might be her thought pattern.

Personally I don't think that she is supportive but tolerant. She might see it as supportive because she hasn't totally freaked out on you. Saying you are disgusted with someone is pretty strong. I would feel horrible if someone said that to me.

I wouldn't even call someone tolerant that used the D word..... pretty harsh. I would say talk and talk and talk some more.. and see if she felt pushed too far at one point. You never know what she is thinking or feeling until you ask.

Good luck!!
Kris

[rachel_jean]

So, lose the MIL and keep the wife! ;)

While the MIL has never and will never see me dressed, she is a major source of all sorts of problems.

And my wife does seem to look to her for 'approval'. She is also a very jealous and self-centered person and never happy for my wife.


I'm actually waiting for the TV reality show InLaw Island so I can ship the MIL and her other daughter off to a far, far away place :D:D


..I would say talk and talk and talk some more..

I've tried and will try again.

Earlier this evening, I told her that I was hurt by her telling me that I disgust her. She turned it around saying it's all her fault then, and proceeded to be upset most of the evening.

And when I do ask to talk she usually says there's not much to talk about, since I'm going to do what I want (dressing) and don't want to stop. The 'not wanting to stop' part is pretty truen, as I don't want to, usually it's my 'escape' and helps me relax and reduces stress, but, she doesn't see it that way. I've asked her to come to this site, but, she just says 'Why, they're all for it'. Sometimes it almost seems better not to talk.

[kim85]

I would agree with kris that your wife seems more tolerant than accepting. I can understand why she has had this reaction and i can see why it hurts you. The only way that you are going to get to the bottom of it is to talk it through weather between yourselfs or with a counseller/therapist
Hope it works out for you
Kim
xxx

[Melinda G]

Most women want to be married to a man. Keep your crossdressing private, and not in her face. She may just be staying with you for the kids.

One way to analyze a situation is to put yourself in the other persons place. Imagine your wife letting the hair on her legs and underarms grow out, getting a mans haircut, and dressing like a man. Most of us wouldn't like it.

[Nicole Erin]

Yep this is typical, women are "supportive" one minute and against it the next.

You want friends or acceptance, don't look to women for it, not with this matter of CD'ing. You would think it would be safe since we want to emulate them in ways and be closer to them, but that ain't how it works.

[Melinda G]

Actually I think we are a threat to women. Some of us look better than women. And most women don't know how to deal with us. The fact that CDing is a sexual outlet for most of us, also is a threat to most women, who don't know how to compete with it, and don't want us to have other sexual outlets besides themselves. It definately reduces their leverage, when you don't really need them, or prefer something else.

[charlie]

I'm quite confused.

My wife told me that's she thinks it 'disgustting' whenever she sees me dressed (at all), but, still claims to be 'supportive'. This doesn't make sense to me.

A little background. Thursday night, we were getting ready to go out (the kids weren't home) and I was trying to decide on which of my mens dress shoes to wear. Since the dress pants I had on were a bit long, I put on my black boots w/ a 3" heel and jokingly said to my wife that they went better with my pants (due to their length) better than my shoes.
That did it. She starts saying 'Why do I always do this to her' and she thinks it 'disgusting', but, won't say why. We 'talk' for a few minutes and she claims to still be 'supportive'.

The 'disgusting' part actually sounds like something her mother would say. My wife confided in her several years ago, when she needed someone to talk too. My wife has also lost a lot of weight and quit several meds since this past spring. Her mother has been telling her I just want her to lose weight so I can wear her clothes. This is where I could easily see her mother saying 'that's just disgusting'.

What confuses me the most is that at times she seems to be OK/tolerant of it. Last weekend I ordered some clothes on line, a top, bra and a few skirts and then made a second order with several items for her. She didn't appear 'disgusted' at all when I told her about it or placed the order for her stuff (and my bra) with her. Further, one package came today, she looked in itand pulled out a skirt, held it up to herself (we're the same size now), said she liked it and might have to borrow it.

Sorry for the rant, but, can someone truly be disgusted by something and still be supportive of it???

Thanks,
Rachel Jean

Rachel Jean,
I believe that Kris has answered your question to a T. Your wife supports you as a husband, but not your actions. She isn't leaving you over CD, but does not "support" (your word) it either. From your post she isn't tolerant of your CD really at all. She hasn't left you though. She still is your wife. Probably your best bet would be to try and not puch your CD on her to the best of your ability. Dress without her when possible. Don't wear her clothes and don't buy your clothes and hers at the same time. Give her space with this. Good Luck!

[CharleneCD]

she isnt leaving you. She isnt forcing you not to dress. She allows you to buy stuff to dress, so she obviously allows it when she is not there. I would call that supportive. Ok maybe not open and enthusiastic support, butt support none the less. Be happy with what you have got. Many girls here have much less.

Oh yes, make sure you do what you can so that your wife knows you love her for what she is doing.

[jaina]

Sorry for the rant, but, can someone truly be disgusted by something and still be supportive of it???

Thanks,
Rachel Jean

NO.
She using the disgusting part as a lever to cause guilt and stop the behaivour she doesn't like. Thats not accepting or supporting.

[MsToriJones]

Is it possible for you to back off dressing around her? wear your girl under things when you want but not let her see them ON you?

She may need some time to adjust, even though you said she has known 15 years.

She may be stuck in the thoughts of society and what they "expect". If so then that is why seeing a man in fem clothings is "disgusting" to her. At one time I thought someone who wanted to be spanked was nuts, then I met someone who is submissive, enjoys being spanked and is a very GREAT friend. I met him as a friend first, then found out the rest and now my view has changed. Same for CDs. I knew Carl on an email list I am on, then Carl became Carla for several years and now is post op Carla and talking through the years about feelings, emotions, etc it opened my eyes.

I hope for the best that she too will be able to open her eyes in the future and be more open and accepting of things.

Tori

[Jacqui]

Thursday night, we were getting ready to go out (the kids weren't home).....I put on my black boots w/ a 3" heel and jokingly said to my wife that they went better with my pants (due to their length) better than my shoes.
That did it.


Regarding the kids (teenagers), we've agreed not to say anything to them right now, therefore I don't dress, at all, when they're home which is the vast majority of the time.

Rachel, to me, this seems like a case of boundaries.

Since you mention that you both have agreed not to let the kids in on this, it seems to follow that she expects to keep this PRIVATE between the two of you. And therein lies her tolerance.

Joking about going out in PUBLIC breaks her implicit understanding of the boundaries. And therein lies her disgust.

It could be that your asumption of the boundaries of your CD'ing differ from hers.

"Disgust" is a strong word and although there is no good reason to use it to describe someone you love, it could be that she felt betrayed. (Still no reason for such a word).

Apologize for the joke, talk about your boundaries.

Sometime in the future you can talk about expansion of boundaries, but not now.

Be thankful, as others have said, for the tolerance that you do get. Many of us have none.

Jacqui

[carhill2mn]

From what I have read and experienced it is quite common for SO's to be, at times, tolerant, maybe even supportive and then in another moment hate it, detest it etc. She, too, is a product of her environment, upbringing etc. and will act accordingly. It seems to me that it would be a good idea not to push the subject very hard as your wife appears to be only somewhat tolerant, at best. Good luck!

[Zee]

Never underestimate the power of mood swings. We all have them. Males are often a little better at biting ones lip, however, than females are.

You can never really pin down a womans emotional state as they often do not know themselves what that state is until after the fact. I have found that dealing with my 3 mothers (yes, count em, 3) my five sisters and my wife (not to mention the abundant aunts and grandmothers) is that they will often shoot out these remarks for no other reason but to ascertain what they are feeling at that particular moment. I really wouldn't give it a second thought.

As a male, we have a hard time understanding these emotional waves women go through. So, we become upset when we feel that their comment was an attack. Usually, it is not an attack but an observation about thier particualr state of mind.

The best way I have found to deal with these little quips are just to pretend they didn't say them. If they continue with the line of quips, then obviously something else is bothering her and its time to talk. But for a one off little burst, I wont deign it with response, in my opinion, its not worth the potential for an arguement.

[Tree GG]

Wow, this thread really has taught me something about me. Your wife did not react positively by what you felt was a harmless little joke. You've gotten explanations of her behavior ranging from MIL influence to changing her description of her CDing label (supportive vs tolerant) to excusing her actions because of mood swings!

I too was going to jump in and say why your wife did what she did based on what feelings would've made me do something like that - and I have. Everyone, you and me included, are assuming we know what's causing her to behave the way she is and are even correcting her on her own self-descriptions! :eek:

Respect her and trust her judgement. Write down these specific instances, show them to her (maybe just one at a time to keep it manageable), tell her your interpretation of their meaning and ask if she can share her feelings at the time or if she was trying to say something specific. Then listen, stop thinking it's about you or your CDing or your relationship or her mom or your kids. It's about her and let her talk and you stay off the defensive. Don't try to solve anything....she can do that all on her own once she isolates the feelings and thinks about her actions/comments. Be the sounding board and emotional moaring she may be needing right now.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if she were that for you? :hugs:

[melissaK]

. . . . Then listen, 1) stop thinking it's about you or your CDing or your relationship or her mom or your kids. It's about her and let her talk and you stay off the defensive. 2) Don't try to solve anything....she can do that all on her own once she isolates the feelings and thinks about her actions/comments. 3) Be the sounding board and emotional moaring she may be needing right now.:

Couldn't agree more. I am sure her wavering support scares you . . . it is always scary when our relationship seems uncertain. But it will be a big help if you can be her confidant and that means unplugging your own "buttons' and just listening to her like a therapist.

If you don't play therapist, MIL will keep doing it. Her bond with her mother can be destructive to your relationship. She can feel safe & secure with Mom (who is obviously needy in her own way) and then use Mom as her safe harbor while she dumps you.

Just my :2c: and it can be all wrong.

hugs,
'lissa

[melissacd]

Actually I think we are a threat to women. Some of us look better than women. And most women don't know how to deal with us. The fact that CDing is a sexual outlet for most of us, also is a threat to most women, who don't know how to compete with it, and don't want us to have other sexual outlets besides themselves. It definately reduces their leverage, when you don't really need them, or prefer something else.

This is an interesting perspective worth pondering. In as much as I always tried to look at the more noble aspects of my relationship some incidents have happened recently that make me see that there is a lot of truth to the feeling of threat and perhaps more importantly the loss of control. I know that it is way more complex than this, but there certainly is merit to this point that a woman may feel there is a loss of control going on here. For example, my ex always assumed that the reason that I wanted to dress was to attract men (albeit a loss of sexual control for her). I said that that was ridiculous. Then I asked her why she dressed up nicely and she said to feel good about herself. I said, did you ever think that that could be the reason that I do it as well?!

This pointed out to me that she made a very strong connection between cross dressing and sexuality. It was not possible for her to see this as something that was an enjoyable experience for me, to just enjoy the whole process of dressing in the absence of sex. She clearly saw this as aberrant and perhaps perverse sexual behavior, after all why would a male do this? So looked at in that light, the support she shows you is her love of you as a partner and her disgust may be tied to threat, loss of control and feelings of this being a perverse sexual thing.

Maybe I am way off base but it gave me pause to reflect on this aspect of how we may be viewed by others.

[Emily Ann Brown]

It would be wonderful if we all spoke the same English...but we don't. Supportive to one means something else to another. And wouldn't it be nice if we all said what we mean as well.

I have a sister friend whose wife constantly turns everything she says around and takes offense. Your one paragraph reminded me of that. It's a defense move. Sounds like your wife is on the defensive a lot.

If you are one of those "always upbeat" people and she isn't, maybe you need to start feeling sorry for her unhappy state and try to deal with that first. Looking back at my own divorce I see that while dressing issues were what fueled the breakup, there were deeper issues going on long before and we were "surviving" before the discovery because I was just letting a lot "slide off" my back(side) and figuring it wasn't all that bad.

Emily Ann

[Vivian Best]

I does sound like you are getting mixed messages from her. I don't think you can be supportive and disgusted at the same time. Is it possible she is supportive on OTHER things but disgusted with dressing? Just a thought.

[heidi99]

Rachel Jean,
I believe that Kris has answered your question to a T. Your wife supports you as a husband, but not your actions. She isn't leaving you over CD, but does not "support" (your word) it either. From your post she isn't tolerant of your CD really at all. She hasn't left you though. She still is your wife. Probably your best bet would be to try and not puch your CD on her to the best of your ability. Dress without her when possible. Don't wear her clothes and don't buy your clothes and hers at the same time. Give her space with this. Good Luck!

First, I think Charlie (and Kris) are right on track. Mixed signals are going in both directions. It sounds like she may not (yet?) be comfortable getting to know your CD'ing side, despite the fact that she's known about it for 15 years. No more jokes, dress when she is not around, and buy things only for yourself for a while. See how it goes.

A couple more things leapt out at me from your tale. First, I found it alarming that there was a possible breach of confidence by her confiding (your secret) in her mother. I didn't see any information about whether you were informed that that was what she was going to do or not. If she did it without your knowledge, I'd be/would have been a little upset. The MIL appears to be stoking the embers of disagreement. It's a pretty safe bet that we (the people on this forum) are beyond her reality. Perhaps, as part of separating your dressing from your wife, you could request that she refrain from discussing that part of your life with her mother (as part of the deal of establishing acceptable boundaries.) Communication is the only solvent that is going to help improve things (by that I mean kind of holding off discussing the really hard things for a while.) You asked her to join the forum. Her response equates to the fact she might not be ready for that (her level of confront isn't high enough to handle it.)

Hopefully I haven't rambled too much, or sounded like an expert ('cause I'm still learning.) This is all very difficult stuff!

Heidi99

[Oddlee]

Couldn't agree more. I am sure her wavering support scares you . . . it is always scary when our relationship seems uncertain. But it will be a big help if you can be her confidant and that means unplugging your own "buttons' and just listening to her like a therapist.

If you don't play therapist, MIL will keep doing it. Her bond with her mother can be destructive to your relationship. She can feel safe & secure with Mom (who is obviously needy in her own way) and then use Mom as her safe harbor while she dumps you.

Just my :2c: and it can be all wrong.

hugs,
'lissa

I agree with both Melissa and Tree. I also agree with Chris that "disgust" is a pretty strong word.

In any conversation about cross-dressing, you will have to restrict your conversation to facts. At the same time, when you talk to her about her statements and reactions, you should objectively state what she has done/said, and then provide your response. Keep what you say about her actions strictly factual, then proceed with "My interpretation..." or "This makes me feel..."

Good luck - it seems like an unstable situation to me...

Lee

[obsessedwithpantyhose]

with in the first week of meeting my now X wife i showed her i dress,, she loved it at frist because if i was wearing pantyhose she was gona get some,,
then i started wearing pantyhose more often and we had less and less sex till it was non existent,,(we wer never in love but we loved each other),, we get along better now,,our son knows i dress,,

anyways,,,having to hide a part of what makes u you is no way to live, i think u may be heading down the road to splitsville and your MIL is in the back seat givin ur wife directions,,:2c:

tiz better to be alone and happy than together and miserable,:2c:

as for therapy,it only works if ur gona be honest and spill ur guts,i used to see a few and if it aint brought up by u then it aint gona get fixed..

my X hated that i looked better than her,,she did buy me a few things tho,i had my own clothes to wear but she would ask me to wear something of hers just to see how it would look on me then get mad because i looked better in it

its 2 am and i have lost my thought process so ill end this here...

i remeberd something else i wanted to say... um how discussted are u when ur wife wears pants?? as for me a woman wearing pants is crossdressed

Heidi99 ummm u look HOT in ur avatar:o

[Carla Mel]

Option 1: Can't be supportive and disgusted at the same time. Means or she's not supportive or she's not disgusted?
- Option 1 a) she is disgusted and plays the role of being supportive because don't want divorce, need your money and support, love you, is affraid of change, think this "defect" is minor with respect of what you are etc etc.... My advice: She probably will not overcome her disgust, so you have to avoid mixing your crossdressing with your family life. Crossdress outside your house, when she's out, and think about you: the pain in your heart you have because your wife is disgusted by an important part of yourself puted in the balance against you own material interests, fear of change, love for her, fear of divorce, children interest etc etc...
- Option 1 b) She is supportive and plays the role of being disgusted because don't want to give too much support thinks then things can get out of control. Don't understand you need to crossdress, think it is something you control, and do because you want, think if you have too much liberty, then she will loose you, and she don't want to loose you. My advice: show her you are a much better person when you crossdress, and show her you can do both family life and crossdressing: it is not one thing or the other but both that you need.
Option 2 She is at the same time supportive and disgusted. Why not? I personally think it is the case why? Because she said so and I trust your wife (you probably do as well). She supports you because she loves you, and has a long history with you. She is disgusted because there is a fracture between what she see, imagine of you as a woman and the image she has of you as her lover/husband/fiance/friend. My advice: try to make her understand you are neither an ideal male/charming prince she has built in her mind, neither the young student she perhaps still has in her memory, neither a freak, but all this together, the young student of the past, the husband and father of their children, and the crossdresser with a feminine soul forever in yourself. You are yourself, very diferent of the "ideal" image she can have in mind of you, with much more to offer.

Kisses
Carla

[Melora]

Wow, Just reading Your first post and not the other posts.. It seems like you have a semi good relationship, and that She actually kinda accepts YOU, But there Might be problems down the road maybe...
Just KEEP positive with Her and make it Fun with her IF POSSIBLE! Be creative with it! Let her get an interest in it, If you know what I mean.. You can do IT!
Good Luck!
~

[MJ]

Sorry for the rant, but, can someone truly be disgusted by something and still be supportive of it???

one word ** WOMEN** never try to understand then ..

[Shelly67]

when Michelle arrived fully , it too caused many a misunderstanding . I now know delicate communication must be kept flowing , and I agree if humour could be involved , then all the better. I started the ball rolling shortly after coming out ( thank god we did,nt wage a verbal war ) asking my darling wife for support in make up application , just asking her what she uses and gauging her responses . After a time frank exchanges of opinion came flowing . then we started buying clothes online , eventually she started buying some for me - then pinched some back ! My make up box gets raided too....and I love it !
all in all we decided whatever went on in our home was private , and if worries or misunderstandings arose , we,d try to sort it and hopefully laugh about em later .......lifes too short ...
Good luck.

[Angie G]

I don't know I've been married 39 1/2 years and still don't know what the H is going on in her head :hugs:
Angie

[Carin]

I think Tree and melissa have got it pegged.

The relationship between your wife and her mother is a critical piece of your own spousal relationship. The more you can help her understand that relationship the more she will be able to separate her own feelings from her mothers.

You DON'T want to be married to you MIL.

[Genifer Teal]

she made a very strong connection between cross dressing and sexuality. It was not possible for her to see this as something that was an enjoyable experience for me, to just enjoy the whole process of dressing in the absence of sex. She clearly saw this as aberrant and perhaps perverse sexual behavior, after all why would a male do this? So looked at in that light, the support she shows you is her love of you as a partner and her disgust may be tied to threat, loss of control and feelings of this being a perverse sexual thing.


I think much of society feel this way about us. Well said!

On another note, my brother broke off an engagement years ago because he saw the MIL controlled everything she did. He said it felt like he was marrying her mother. I'm sorry for you troubles. There is a bright side to every situation. Sometimes you have to look a little harder to find it.

Hugs -Genifer

[Genifer Teal]

Option 1: Can't be supportive and disgusted at the same time.
Option 1 a) she is disgusted and plays the role of being supportive
Option 1 b) She is supportive and plays the role of being disgusted
Option 2 She is at the same time supportive and disgusted.
Kisses
Carla

What? No 2 a), 2 b)? LOL You had me at 1 a) :love:

Actually I'm quite lost, but it was fun to comment anyway.:happy:

Gen

[Kelsy]

supportive and discusted equals, she tolerates it. It might be wise to tread lightly!!

Kelsy