romance killed her!

[princessmichelle]

When I was dating I wasn't interested in cd-ing, or worried that I really wish I was female.

When I broke up--well, here I am.

If dating can kill my femme self, that seems to mean that I'm not ts. Which upsets me. I wish I was ts. But what does it mean that these feelings disappeared for three months when I dated?

Princess Michelle

[AllieSF]

Well, maybe you didn't kill her?? Maybe she was just put in the background for awhile? Over my many years I have always found that the male goes through a few distinct phases as he searches for, finds, makes the initial contact, pursues and finally hooks up with a woman before getting into what I like to call "the routine". You know, that phase where you start letting your hair down and let out your true male personality, watching sports, expecting something from your girl friend instead of pursuing her and putting up with those little things that bother you. Arguments start happening that never happened before, and then if you are alert and aware of what is happening (which is not at all easy) you can step back and see if you like who you are and if you like who she is to make the arrangement more permanent.

Based on my personal experience, 3 months is just not enough time to enter into "the routine". So what happens during the early phases, especially during the pursuit one, is that both parties tend to be a little blind and notice all the good things in the other and seem not to see nor realize that there may be a few not so perfect things about the other. Now the man is focused on getting to the "she is mine" phase and tends to ignore many other things that formed his daily life prior to "her" entering into the scene like relationships with other friends, preferred hobbies like hunting, fishing, hanging with the guys, and even something as important as CDing. What happens those "things" are not killed, but just put on the back burner for awhile until the pursuit is over and you can then dedicate some of your precious time to those other parts of your life.

I think that is what may have happened to you. Since I am new here to CDing, I have to rely on the opinions of others when they say, "once a CD, always a CD". So, I think that if you find someone you love and you enter into the daily routine of living (working, eating, being happy, sad, problems at work and home, etc., etc.) your CDing urges will eventually come back, maybe the same or different. But they will come back. I hope this helps a bit. Good luck and don't worry too much about it. It will only give you a headache, anxiety, upset stomach, acid indigestion and help prevent you from making the most of every sweet and not so sweet day that you have here on good old planet earth.

[Kate Simmons]

We do what we have to to live and survive. Humans are very adaptable in this respect and it is part of the "nature of the beast". We also have a built in biological imperative which is to reproduce and adaptability is essential in that respect. In short, we become who we have to become to fulfill part of our purpose.

This may mean setting part of ourselves aside for a time to accomplish our goal. Most don't even know why, we just do it and it is part of our instinct and we may not even be aware of this. it doesn't mean our basic sense of self has changed, we are just directing our energies to something important. This probably explains(at least partly) why, mid stream back in the 1970's I decided not to transition and got married instead. My TG feelings never went away of course and I started CDing again but I was somewhat content to be a husband and a father despite my basic nature.

Once that was accomplished(and the children were grown) my TG feelings came back with an increased intensity and I needed to find out who I was once and for all, so here I am. I guess what I'm saying is that sometimes it's necessary to put deep real feelings on the back burner to accomplish something. Since coming out I have learned to process and integrate these feelings into my overall self. The result is a person who can be anyone I want to be. The difference is, it is now my choice and I have these resources that can be called upon to accomplish many things. Recognizing that puts us ahead of most people who won't even acknowledge these feelings exist, let alone utilize them and that is what makes us successful.:happy:

[Teresa Amina]

I went for years finding things to distract myself with in order to not want what I want still. Getting in a relationship is the classic wall between you and yourself, but it's just a crumbly mud brick thing which needs constant repair. You're still you regardless of how well you (temporarily) hide.

[Ms_Judys_pet]

When I was dating I wasn't interested in cd-ing, or worried that I really wish I was female.

When I broke up--well, here I am.

If dating can kill my femme self, that seems to mean that I'm not ts. Which upsets me. I wish I was ts. But what does it mean that these feelings disappeared for three months when I dated?

Princess Michelle


:2c:
Similar things happen with gender preferences. i've had my interest in underdressing (the earlier expression of my crossdressing), interest in men, and my interest in BDSM fall off or disappear for times depending on the relationship i was in.

Eventually, they resurfaced. Three months may not be enough time for you to know what would have happened in the long run. Love does funkie things to a person. Lust, romantic interest, etc likewise. How high a priority dressing or other activities has in our lives will shift depending on the other priorities. A romantic interest can take the high priority. School pursuits, work, just about anything. Everything else slides down.

My experience is that things balance out eventually. The desire to dress, the gender interests, everything eventually wants it's place back.

This combination has even happened with my historical research. i'll stop for a while, then it will begin driving me crazy that i'm not doing anything with it.

So, don't give up on yourself. You're just finding a balance again. Some interests do disappear. But most things reappear again.
So hang out here, wear the comfy stuff, nice comfy night gown and fuxxy slippers, or the garter belt and skirt...
:hugs:

[Cara Allen]

When I was dating I wasn't interested in cd-ing, or worried that I really wish I was female.

When I broke up--well, here I am.

If dating can kill my femme self, that seems to mean that I'm not ts. Which upsets me. I wish I was ts. But what does it mean that these feelings disappeared for three months when I dated?

Princess Michelle

I joined the Army, in 1969. I am a VietNam Era Vet. The whole time I was in the Army, I was in remission.

When I met my wife, and got married, I was in remission for quite a while too.

When your life changes at some basic level (and falling in love does that,) you focus on incorporating that into your life... Your priorities shift, but you are still the same person basically. Being TG goes to the core of your personality. When things calm down, you get back to who you are, I think.

[Sharon]

I don't understand why you wish you were a transsexual, Michelle. Why is that better than just accepting yourself as you are, whatever that may be.

Even if you are a transsexual, going without dressing as a female for a few months isn't indicative of anything. It is what is in your mind that matters. Do you feel as if you are female, no matter how you present yourself? You can dress in the most masculine manner possible and that doesn't change who you are in your heart.

[Vivian Best]

I don't understand why you wish you were a transsexual, Michelle. Why is that better than just accepting yourself as you are, whatever that may be.

Even if you are a transsexual, going without dressing as a female for a few months isn't indicative of anything. It is what is in your mind that matters. Do you feel as if you are female, no matter how you present yourself? You can dress in the most masculine manner possible and that doesn't change who you are in your heart.

Very well said in a very few words Sharon.

[Kimberley]

To be TS is to just know your gender and sex are misaligned. It really has nothing to do with dating or marriage (a mistake to many of us make, myself included)

Being TS is no picnic. It is to live with dysphoria of knowing your life is mostly a sham, that there is only one way to correct this (self acceptance) and that massive mutilating surgery is going to help you face the world on an equal footing.

It is to know that when you "come out", family and friends will often turn away from you, your career is either gone or in serious jeopardy, the healthcare system doesnt want a lot to do with you, and finding friends is extremely difficult. The reality is that many of us (but not all), are both lonely and alone.

Life as we know it has to change and be rebuilt from the ground up including relationships with those we love. Sometimes that is impossible.

Michelle, please dont wish you were TS. Being a CD while it has its downsides as well, is far less of a life problem. Coping in either sphere can be a challenge but more so for the TS.

Why anyone would wish for this, and more, is beyond me.

:hugs:
Kimberley

[GypsyKaren]

If dating can kill my femme self, that seems to mean that I'm not ts. Which upsets me. I wish I was ts.

You can't wish yourself into anything, you are what you are. Jane has good advice about talking to someone, you really should do that.

Karen Starlene

[Kimberley]

Say what??? You obviously know very little about modern surgical techniques. I'm not even healed yet and my results are GREAT. I would replace the word "multilating" with the word "corrective".



I think this is exactly the kind of response Karen et al have been trying to get people to avoid. I take personal exception to it.

Time for me to leave ... again. I certainly do not come here to be insulted thank you.

Kimberely

[GypsyKaren]

I think this is exactly the kind of response Karen et al have been trying to get people to avoid. I take personal exception to it.

Time for me to leave ... again. I certainly do not come here to be insulted thank you.

Kimberely


Relax Kimberley, no one's insulting you. Jane's quite right, it is not "mutilating" surgery and you're way off base there, we're both speaking from experience and you'd take exception to calling it that if you had SRS too.

Karen Starlenee

[Cara Allen]

I think this is exactly the kind of response Karen et al have been trying to get people to avoid. I take personal exception to it.

Time for me to leave ... again. I certainly do not come here to be insulted thank you.

Kimberely

Kimberly,

I do not see one single reference in Jane's correspondence that was insulting to you, or anyone. I do note that your demeanor was abrasive, dear. For many, that surgery that you refer to as "mutilating" is life saving, and a dream to behold. Consider what you say, before you say it, please?

From a TS perspective (and I do not pretend to speak for anyone else but me,) this is a difficult to attain solution, but a miraculous option. To refer to it as a mutilation is harsh and misses the mark by miles.

Cara

[princessmichelle]

To be TS is to just know your gender and sex are misaligned. It really has nothing to do with dating or marriage (a mistake to many of us make, myself included)

Being TS is no picnic. It is to live with dysphoria of knowing your life is mostly a sham, that there is only one way to correct this (self acceptance) and that massive mutilating surgery is going to help you face the world on an equal footing.

It is to know that when you "come out", family and friends will often turn away from you, your career is either gone or in serious jeopardy, the healthcare system doesnt want a lot to do with you, and finding friends is extremely difficult. The reality is that many of us (but not all), are both lonely and alone.

Life as we know it has to change and be rebuilt from the ground up including relationships with those we love. Sometimes that is impossible.

Michelle, please dont wish you were TS. Being a CD while it has its downsides as well, is far less of a life problem. Coping in either sphere can be a challenge but more so for the TS.

Why anyone would wish for this, and more, is beyond me.

:hugs:
Kimberley

Kimberley,

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

I've wanted to BE female since at least 7th grade. Before that I had many cross-gender play preferences and soon after that I discovered crossdressing.

I've publicly stated that transition is to be avoided if at all possible, because it is dangerous on every level: physically dnagerous, mentally dangerous, emotionally dnagerous, financially dangerous. My own mother hates this aspect of myself, and I'd lose at least one of my best friends.

Almost being in love with a woman is the only thing that has ever lessened the feeling of wishing I was female, and that damaged my confidence that I am ts : How can two decades of gender angst be dismissed so easily? That is the way I meant I "wish" I was ts. Because this in between "hate being male but how could I ever transition" feeling is agony. Agony. The only way I "wish" I was TS is the daydream that it would solve the agony.

But because my destress is so long, so strong, and more about wishing my BODY were female than about anything else, I must ask the ts question. For my whole life, most of my interests and hobbies have put me as one of the only males: hula hoops in elementary school, library science in graduate school. I can sort of do the gender roles as male (Mr. Mom etc), but it is more difficult: at best its harder to connect with the women than it would be if I were a woman, at worst I'm ridiculed for liking woemens stuff.

But I can't really say I AM female if I don't have a body to match. (I might not even be able to say it then, which is another of my hesitations about being ts--that I'd feel like an impostor, or ambiguous). I feel like I wouldn't be much into girly clothes if my body were female, but since my body is not female, I wear skirts, blouses, and makeup (but only in private). Part of that is self defence: with beard cover, an adams apple, and legal documents that say I'm male, I'd better do all I can to counteract the natural assumption of-- myself: one thing genetic women have that I envy is the belief that they ARE female, not just that that they can prove it medically and legally, but their sense of self.

I won't say I am female, but I'd fit in better with life if I were, and experience far less "I hate my body for being male" feelings. I'm not certain I'm ts--the stakes are too high, it's too scary. But I've wanted ovaries since puberty, and have no attachment to being male, except law and and sad practicality. But better to be male forever than to make a mistaken transition. But I have to ask if it might be right for me.

Princess Michelle

[princessmichelle]

...

What I will say is there is a HUGE difference between being a CD'er and being born transsexual. To be blunt transitioning is NOT about the clothes. It's about being the real you. If you're female inside transition is like getting out of gender prison. ...

Women do get all the cool clothes, but I've often felt that I'd mostly wear boring male clothes IF I ONLY WERE FEMALE! Most of my female role models aren't into makeup or fancy dresses. But they have three things I don't:
1) medical proof they are female
2) legal proof that they are female
3) a lifetime of being told that they are female.

I wont deny that I prefer female clothes, but they're a poor substitute for being female. Except for Prom and Academy Awards, it's not about the clothes, much. It's about ovaries.

Ovaries can't be seen. But I'd trade almost all my clothes of either gender for a pair of ovaries. I played with doll houses and liked hopscotch, but was told, usually politely and subtly, that boys don't do that. I liked Home Ec class more than Shop Class. I did gymnastics for five years: for four of those years I was the only boy in the class. I loved gymnastics and there are some great male gymnasts. But none in my town. More than two decades later I'm a grad student in a field where men are outnumbered about 5 to 1. It just happens to be true of the career I gravitated toward.

I've had more female friends than male. But I'm too girly for most men and too genetically male to be one of the women.

Without ovaries or a lifetime of being told I'm female, I can't say I AM female. I can't say that. But have I wished it almost my whole life? Yes. And its not about the clothes.

Combine all that with the relentless wish to magically wake up AS female rather than with the body of a male, and, well, maybe I'm ts.

Princess Michelle

[JOEY88]

wow ,princess i feel like i have so much in common with you,except ive decide i am ts , but i totally relate with the difficulty to consider your self female in fact i believe Ive stated something along those lines to my therapist recently

[GypsyKaren]

Without ovaries or a lifetime of being told I'm female, I can't say I AM female. I can't say that. But have I wished it almost my whole life? Yes. And its not about the clothes.


What does ovaries or the assurances of others have to do with your identity? That's not what makes a person who they are, and neither do wishes.I'm not saying you are or aren't TS, but I think you're on the wrong track in your thinking.

Karen Starlene

[kerrianna]

Michelle, I was thinking of starting a seperate thread about the concept of 'wishing I were TS' because it is something I have read on this site a few times...and kind of thought myself...but after reading your last two posts I think I'll just fold it into a reply here. If I can. Tricky ground.

I totally relate to a lot of what you are going through. As far as who is and who isn't TS, well it's kind of an inexact science (wouldn't it be nice to take a foolproof test so you'd know and could get on with things?)...and it seems to me self-identifying is still the most common way of knowing. I think having professional, gender- identity experienced help is a necessity at some point of the way if your gender identity is causing grief and turmoil in your life.

It sounds like from what you describe that you could be TS and if you did decide you were and wanted to transition you may be a candidate. But that's why most places have a process to help you and them understand how important transitioning is to you.

Yes...the cost of transitioning can be very high, and to some of us, especially if we're older with a complex life built on our assigned gender identity, that cost may not seem worth it. But that compromise is sadly always going to leave us with teeth of unhappiness and discontent gnawing at us...unless somehow as individuals we can find a way to surpass gender as an important part of our existence. Most of us can't do that. It's with us everyday and the world reacts to us according to the gender perception they have of us. Transcending that takes a special path. I like to believe it can be done, because I actually do believe that my spirit force is supremely more powerful than my biological underpinnings...but my day to day life is still rife with a lot of discontent, depression and anxiety about my gender identity. And it seems to be slowly getting worse.

In my case I have a really mixed feeling about referring to myself as TS. On one hand I don't want to know that I am, because most people who are really do have to transition to remove that sharp edge that cuts at them all the time. But like we know, it comes with a huge price and can disrupt a life.

So why would anyone want to be TS?

Because it does have some absoluteness to it. It means you KNOW and you can get on with the changes or finding a way to deal with it. But more than anything, you have a surety about what's wrong. If you successfully transition, you finally get to have an idea what cisgendered people feel like. (I hate using the word 'normal')

Not being TS, but still being TG to the point of having a confused or even shifting gender identity is a really tough place to be too. We live in a binary gender role model. It seems even more binary to me now, despite all the middle ground people like us are flooding to. Our society is in a real "Pimp and Ho" mode which makes a pretty clear delineation of the 'two' sexes.

Not being able to check the M box or the F box on forms really does make one feel like an outcast. What are you then? Queer. Oh wonderful...I get to walk around the rest of my life feeling like a misfit, like I don't belong. I think that's why some of us who may not be TS, but are closer to that end of the scale kind of envy people who can claim an M or F box, even if they have to go through a lot to get there.

Sorry, this might not be too helpful. Really you are danged if you are and danged if you aren't...BUT...the thing is you DON'T have to live danged, either way. There are always routes to freedom and happiness. Each of us has their own path to travel. What's important is believing in ourselves and believing in our abilities to not only make changes when we need to, but that we will succeed and excel with those changes. If you travel further and come to the realization that transitioning is worth the gamble of what you might lose, that the return is now worth it for you, then make sure you go in with your head up, knowing it will work for you. I think Gypsy Karen is a good example of someone who did that WHEN she decided the time had come. It didn't happen overnight, but when she decided she seemed sure and confident and happy about it, and she still seems to be. :happy:

But if you're not sure, then the path isn't right, or the timing isn't right. Develop and trust your instinct, your intuition.

My experience so far with this is that it's tricky balancing the finding out information and getting guidance and support, and trying not to be influenced by others and their own paths. Anytime a transitioned transwoman tells how happy she is, my gut feeling is to push her aside and take her place so I can be happy too...but who's to say I would be in her shoes?

Michelle, we all have to find our own places. It's like anything else. There will always be someone we wish we were more like, or had the certainty they seem to have (which btw most people didn't always have or don't have as much as they show).

Being out in the broad expanse between the two polars of Male-Female gender seems like a lonely isolated place...but if you look you'll find there are lots and lots of us there. In fact, probably most of the members on this site are in between somewhere. It's a hell of a confusing place to be in a cisgendered society, but it does have it's merits.

I really liked what Carrie Davis at the LGBT Community Center in NY had to say in this film (http://www.gaycenter.org/program_folders/gip/gip-transgenderbasics)
about how people keep trying to change to fit into the gender model of our society, when in fact it might be better if the model changed instead.

Maybe the in betweeners are the ones who are going to help change that model and allow everyone to breathe a bit easier.

[Kate Simmons]

Kez had some good points. I just want to say this. We seem to have ingrained within us by society(Due to the binary gender system model?) the need to play some kind of role. The simple truth is we don't. We only have to do a few things in life and that is to die, pay taxes and drink beer (for me anyway:heehee:). As I mentioned before, humans are extremely adaptable and we have the capability of becoming whoever we need to be to accomplish things. If we have the binary precepts or concepts stuck in our mind, we limit ourselves in a very extreme way. Once a person breaks free of that, the sky is the limit and we can do whatever we set our minds to. There is no "trick" or "secret" to achieving this. All that is required is being honest with yourself and being true to yourself. After that, everything else follows. If there is any "secret" to the flavor of the barbacue, it is in the "sauce", which is who we really are inside and that is what makes us a "winner".:happy:

[princessmichelle]

What does ovaries or the assurances of others have to do with your identity? ...
Karen Starlene

The two things that will always separate even a post-op MtF from a genetic woman. (I'm simplifying a bit, but that's basically true). Ovaries symbolize the medical proof of "FEMALE", and that's simple, but women also have their femininity validated by being referred to with female pronouns etc since forever.

But fear that those two things would keep me from being accepted as female even if I had grs.

PM

[princessmichelle]

Michelle....
if you're not sure, then the path isn't right, or the timing isn't right. Develop and trust your instinct, your intuition.
....
Maybe the in betweeners are the ones who are going to help change that model and allow everyone to breathe a bit easier.

I will check out the link: it does seem that middle path would be easier for me.

And I very much liked your comment of "path or timing" : that's exactly what I'm trying to figure out.

Thanks!

PM

[GypsyKaren]

The two things that will always separate even a post-op MtF from a genetic woman. (I'm simplifying a bit, but that's basically true). Ovaries symbolize the medical proof of "FEMALE", and that's simple, but women also have their femininity validated by being referred to with female pronouns etc since forever.

But fear that those two things would keep me from being accepted as female even if I had grs.

PM

So if a woman has her ovaries removed, is she no longer a woman? And as far as pronouns are concerned, how should a handful of 3 letter words mean anything? You're only a woman if people call you "Miss" or "Mrs." a bunch of times? Don't mean a thing to me, I was called "Sir" and "Mr." an awful lot but that never made me a man.

Karen Starlene

[Stephenie S]

Interesting. I think you would KNOW. What do you really believe?

I have known since as far back as I can remember that I was female. I used to wish, pray, and search for the magic spell that would fix my body. I was in my twenties before I learned that wishes, prayers and magic were just not going to work. I then set about to be the best MAN I could be. I suceeded pretty well, raised and supported a family, and learned about life, but never lost the conviction that a mistake had been made at some point.

I finally realized that if something was going to happen, I was going to have to MAKE it happen. I finally started living my life as the woman I always knew I was. Is it easy? Yes and no. I know that my first attempts were clumsy and comical, but here I am, living and working as a woman, 24/7. Society is AMAZINGLY accomadating and accepting. I attribute this to the fact that I KNOW I am a woman, and perhaps to the fact that I am carefully following the HBSOC. There is heartache on the part of some of my family, most notably my wife, as she has lost her husband. But almost universally I am accepted for what I belive I am.

A co-worker and good friend once said to me when we were discussing my transition during a break at work, "I don't know why anyone would want to be a woman."

"But Katy," I said, "I don't want to be a woman, I am a woman".

My hair dresser asked me yesterday if I belonged to the local TS support group. I told her I had attended a meeting once, but that no, it really was not for me. "Oh," she said, "I get it, you're not a transexual, you already ARE a woman."

In a sense, she was right. I am, and have always been, a woman. Of course I am TS. I am, or have, transitioned. I have a male body, I was raised a male. But hearing myself sir'd and he'd did little to cement that fact in my mind. Just as hearing myself she'd and her'd now doesn't make me any more a woman. I am a woman because of a deep down BELIEF that I am a woman.

TS is really not something to wish for. It's not something you "try out". If you are wondering if you are, get some good GENDER therapy. That's where it all starts. A therapist can help you with many of the questions you are asking here. And they can do it better, perhaps, than we can.

And sweetie, SRS is only "horribly mutilating" from a male point of view.

Lovies,
Stephenie