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View Full Version : Becoming a GG (Long Post) Would you want to?



Nyx
04-09-2005, 12:40 AM
As I have expressed before, I see the current methods of transexualisation as extremely expensive and inefficient. They can turn a man into a sterile woman, with no guarantees whatsoever... You might just not look that feminine, even after facial feminization surgery... You might lose the capability to have orgasms, or even lose your voice forever if you try vocal cord surgery. Not to mention that you will have to take hormones for the rest of your life. It has its risks, its disadvantages, and high costs.

Nevertheless, since age 5, I always wanted to be a girl... And over the years, I have been trying to imagine how to make it possible. Being somewhat of a scientist myself, I didn't fantasizes on alien performing some more advanced SRS on me. Instead, I dreamt of something that could make it happen in this world. Something that could turn a guy, not into a transexual, but into a girl. A real girl. A genetic girl.

As you all know, normal humans possess 23 pairs of chromosomes. The chromosomes of these pairs come from mommy and daddy. 22 of these pairs are "identical" chromosomes. In the sense that they contain the same genes. One of these pairs, however, is not always identical. This pair is the pair of sexual chromosomes, known as gonosomes. In the case of a woman, this is an "identical" pair of two X chromosomes. In the case of men, however, the pair contains an X chromosome and a Y chromosome (which do not contain the same genes).

It is believed the Y chromosome acts as a trigger in order to make a potentially female individual into a male. So, where am I getting? Males and females have different sets of gonosomes, yes. However, there is an interesting fact. This fact is while females have two X chromosomes and no Y, men have the Y, but they also have the X. Hence, in a sense, men possess all the genetic code to build a female individual. In fact, in theory, if you could take any man's genetic code, replace the Y gonosome by an X gonosome taken in another cell, and take insert this modified genetic code in an empty ovula, you could produce a female clone of that man. Of course, that clone would not have the same memory as the man, etc... But it would be a nearly identical clone, except female... Much like a female identical twin sister. Now, this seems pretty pointless. We could basically recreate a clone of you "as a female", and see how that person grows up to be, but it wouldn't really affect you... But there are some other interesting genetic facts.

There exists a category of virus (of which the AIDS virus is part of), that can modify the DNA of human cells in order to insert its own code into them. Of course, the AIDS virus is not a very fun thing... But imagine if we could engineer our own retrovirus for our own purposes. A retrovirus with the special purpose of editing a specific person's DNA in each of their cells. Where am I getting, again. Well, I'm suggesting the use of a retrovirus to change a male's DNA into female DNA. That would make you a genetic girl.

This is not enough, however. As an adult person, all of your cells are specialized. For this reason, they cannot change function, or create new physical attributes, like stem cells (as found in embryos) can. Hence, if we modified your DNA, you would not physically change, apart from traits that only depend on the generation of proteins. We could basically change your eye/hair/skin color, and a few other things, but just like a person who has had esthetic surgery does not regress to their "natural" physical appearance, you would not physically become female. In fact, it is possible that your male attributes would keep functioning perfectly normally and even produce viable semen (that would only be able to produce female children, however, as you could no longer transmit a Y chromosome).

So, again, we are not yet at the goal. But, there are more interesting facts of nature. Some lizards have the capability of not just regenerating wounds, but also regenerating entire lost limbs through stem cells that can recreate them. And as a matter of fact, there are ways to make specialized cells (your cells) regress to the state of stem cells. So, if we could not only change your genetic code, but also find a way to create stem cells, or embryonic cells in your system that would trigger the formation of female attributes, we could make you a genetic (and physical) girl. All this without surgery, using only the injection of a retrovirus and possibly stem cells.

Of course, its not as easy as I make it sounds, but its not that far from reality either. And not only that, but if something like this were possible, it would have many more applications, like curing genetic diseases, regrowing lost limbs and curing diseases. Even more interesting, if we could regenerate you, we could make you become young again... And hence make it possible to extend human life expectancy by many orders of magnitude. Of course, if this ever becomes possible, it won't happen instantly, but most likely over the course of a few years. And obviously, it could apply to FTM transexuals just as well, although we would have to obtain a foreign Y chromosome to insert.

So, if this was a reality, would you want it?

Personally, if something reliable like this existed, with the guarantee of turning me into a real genetic girl (even if it took a few years), and without totally ruining me on the financial aspect... I certainly would. I would take this, and turn myself into a girl of physical age about 7 (if possible), and live my childhood and teenage years over, but as a female, so I could experience everything girls go through. I would only do it if I had the guarantee that my memories remain unaffected, however.

celeste26
04-09-2005, 01:36 AM
Scifi invades the forum. The last idea of becoming a 7 year old would be the hardest part. I hate to think about the problems that would create for yourself and everyone around you. The rest has been thought of before in some of the Trans fiction that I read (from many years ago.) It is still a fantasy and a fine one at that.

carolynhcd
04-09-2005, 02:27 AM
Just do me and I'll feel girlie enough. You make my head hurt.

Sweet Susan
04-09-2005, 02:38 AM
So, if we could not only change your genetic code, but also find a way to create stem cells, or embryonic cells in your system that would trigger the formation of female attributes, we could make you a genetic (and physical) girl. All this without surgery, using only the injection of a retrovirus and possibly stem cells.

Of course, its not as easy as I make it sounds, but its not that far from reality either. And not only that, but if something like this were possible, it would have many more applications, like curing genetic diseases, regrowing lost limbs and curing diseases. Even more interesting, if we could regenerate you, we could make you become young again... And hence make it possible to extend human life expectancy by many orders of magnitude. Of course, if this ever becomes possible, it won't happen instantly, but most likely over the course of a few years. And obviously, it could apply to FTM transexuals just as well, although we would have to obtain a foreign Y chromosome to insert.

So, if the final solution was a reality, would you take it?

Personally, if something reliable like this existed, with the guarantee of turning me into a real genetic girl (even if it took a few years), and without totally ruining me on the financial aspect... I certainly would. I would take this, and turn myself into a girl of physical age about 7 (if possible), and live my childhood and teenage years over, but as a female, so I could experience everything girls go through. I would only do it if I had the guarantee that my memories remain unaffected, however.

So, you would only do this if you could retain your memory? You want to be a seven year old girl and know that you used to be 20 something year old guy who wanted to be girl ever since he was five? Is that what you want? Welcome to science fiction.

Not only do I think that this will never happen, I also think I'd like to have a sip of what you've been drinking, if you think that this could actually happen. I have no doubt that you'd be able to retain your memory. My doubt comes in the form of the religious right in America would have you nixed (pun intended) before they'd ever let you do such a thing. But, hey, good luck with this one. It would make a great HBO series. Probably the best one, yet.

Sharon
04-09-2005, 02:48 AM
As I have expressed before, I see the current methods of transexualisation as extremely expensive and inefficient. They can turn a man into a sterile woman, with no guarantees whatsoever... You might just not look that feminine, even after facial feminization surgery... You might lose the capability to have orgasms, or even lose your voice forever if you try vocal cord surgery. Not to mention that you will have to take hormones for the rest of your life. It has its risks, its disadvantages, and high costs.

Nyx,
I have chosen to quote only the opening paragraph of your post as it is what I want to address. I did enjoy the remainder of the post however and found its premise intriguing to say the least. If not for family, I would certainly consider it, if it was available.

I have seen at least one other post by you where you mention that SRS is undesirable because a transexual could never become a "whole" (my word) woman. Whether to have sexual reallignment surgery or not should not be dependant on whether one would be beautiful or not. The need for having this procedure comes from within.
I wish I could be a beautiful woman if I decide to have surgery (not likely to happen though), but it would not be the determining factor on whether I proceed with it or not. I would do so because it is a female that exists in my soul; it being the essense of who I truly am. What I see written between the lines of your posts is that less attractive women are somehow lesser in value than those women we see on runways or movie screens -- what I view as stereotypical macho BS. We, of all people, should know better!
Cost would certainly be a consideration to take into account, but if it's something I want badly enough, then I would find a way to make it happen. And the ability of having an orgasm or not should also not be a major consideration since sexual gratification is at least ninety percent mental. And besides, SRS has made amazing strides in the last decade or so, so that it is more likely that sex will be even better since your body matches your brain.

It just sounds to me that you're just making excuses for not having the surgery, which means, of course, that you shouldn't -- at least not yet.

Dominique Melt
04-09-2005, 09:54 AM
For some reason, I have a problem with the term "Final Solution." Does anyone else or am I being hypersensitive?
Yes, I am an Israelite.

Nyx
04-09-2005, 09:58 AM
Scifi invades the forum. The last idea of becoming a 7 year old would be the hardest part. I hate to think about the problems that would create for yourself and everyone around you. The rest has been thought of before in some of the Trans fiction that I read (from many years ago.) It is still a fantasy and a fine one at that.

It might be "scifi", but its not that far from reality. It does not involve alien technology or anything. Only genetic manipulations, some of which we can already perform. Creating a female clone of yourself, as I mentioned earlier, is something we already have the means to do... And there are already experiments being done with stem cells that show positive results in the regeneration of damaged organs.


Just do me and I'll feel girlie enough. You make my head hurt.

Well... Maybe you're not a transexual.


So, you would only do this if you could retain your memory? You want to be a seven year old girl and know that you used to be 20 something year old guy who wanted to be girl ever since he was five? Is that what you want? Welcome to science fiction.

I value the person I am and what I have learned. If I lost my memory, I would just be a completely different person, and there wouldn't be that much point, honestly. To want to lose your all your memory, you would have to hate yourself or something.


Not only do I think that this will never happen, I also think I'd like to have a sip of what you've been drinking, if you think that this could actually happen. I have no doubt that you'd be able to retain your memory. My doubt comes in the form of the religious right in America would have you nixed (pun intended) before they'd ever let you do such a thing. But, hey, good luck with this one. It would make a great HBO series. Probably the best one, yet.

Well, I wouldn't have to tell anyone either. I could just do it, and then manage to get adopted or something ;)


What I see written between the lines of your posts is that less attractive women are somehow lesser in value than those women we see on runways or movie screens -- what I view as stereotypical macho BS. We, of all people, should know better!

Of course beauty isn't all, but denying that it has any importance is naive. If you were asked to describe the woman you would want to be, surely you would not say that you dream of being a 300 pound bald woman... Or a transexual woman that everyone sees as a man-in-a-dress, and not as a woman. Lets face it: everyone wants to be a beautiful person.


Cost would certainly be a consideration to take into account, but if it's something I want badly enough, then I would find a way to make it happen. And the ability of having an orgasm or not should also not be a major consideration since sexual gratification is at least ninety percent mental.

Sex is a very important part of love life... And unsatisfactory sex often leads to... Unsatisfactory relationships...

That said, none of you answered the most important question: Would you do it or not?

Priscilla1018
04-09-2005, 03:36 PM
Shalom Dominique,

I too have misgivings about the use of the term "Final Solution" I have Israeli friends that I work out with.The rest of Nyx post was facsinating.

Love and Hugs,
Priscilla

Kimberly
04-09-2005, 03:47 PM
For some reason, I have a problem with the term "Final Solution." Does anyone else or am I being hypersensitive?
Yes, I am an Israelite.
Isn't 'the final solution' the Nazi plan to iradicate the Jewish population of the world?? This phrase scares me a little too.

Nyx
04-09-2005, 04:03 PM
Isn't 'the final solution' the Nazi plan to iradicate the Jewish population of the world?? This phrase scares me a little too.

Are you serious? I didn't know about that and don't really want to be associated with nazis. I meant the final solution in the sense that it should solve any transexuality issues. Sorry about this! I will try to edit the name of my post if I can...


For some reason, I have a problem with the term "Final Solution." Does anyone else or am I being hypersensitive?
Yes, I am an Israelite.

You're not being oversensitive. Thanks for pointing it out, that way I can avoid calling it that in the future, and making unwanted enemies.

EDIT: I can edit it, but the thread name does not change on the main forum...

Natasha Anne
04-11-2005, 05:10 PM
I have no doubt about what I want to be.

I could quite happily switch overnight without complaint, personal circumstances (wife and children who I'd rather I died than be without) excluded.

I often wish I could capture the essence of what it was like to be a girl. I mostly feel cheated out of an experience I feel should have been accorded to me. I never wanted to be what I am physically, and it troubles me that if I ever went through the change, I wouldn't have the experiences I needed to make it real. Impotence and surgically created parts don't bug me at all. My soul is what I am.

If my wife dissappeared out of my life I'd go for it and not look back.

As for the 'final solution', although many of us know what the phrase stood for, the younger generation may not. Please give Nyx the benefit of the doubt, I'm sure she was not being deliberately offensive and values people who corrected her in a respectful way.

SilkenPrincess
04-11-2005, 06:51 PM
As I read your question, it boils down to this:





"Would you become a GG if you could?"





If you boiled down my response it would be this:


"Yes!"

What could be simpler?
Love,
SilkkenPrincess

ChristineRenee
04-12-2005, 06:44 AM
Hi Nyx,

Well I was fascinated by your post. The "final solution" phrase, however, unnerved me too and you'll want to refrain from using that in the future. But the rest of the post I found to be very interesting indeed. Kinda reminded me of that movie parody on Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde called Dr. Jekyll and Ms. Hyde starring Tim Daly and Sean Young from 1995. Even though it is a comedy, it has many of the same scientific elements that you mentioned. Would make a great series for HBO I agree.

I wouldn't want to go back to the age of 7 again however...whether my memory was retained or not. Puberty was tough enough to go through once as a boy and I don't care to revisit that territory again.

Good post though Nyx. I'm sure that somewhere...up above...from the dark shadows and regions of the Twilight Zone....Mr. Rod Serling is looking down, cigarette firmly in hand, and smiling very broadly!:)

Submitted for your approval....

Love,
Chrissie:cool:

Nyx
04-12-2005, 05:36 PM
As I read your question, it boils down to this:
"Would you become a GG if you could?"
If you boiled down my response it would be this:
"Yes!"

What could be simpler?

Of course, but I also mentioned that it could take a few years ;)

But personally, my main concern is actually the effectiveness of the transformation.


Kinda reminded me of that movie parody on Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde called Dr. Jekyll and Ms. Hyde starring Tim Daly and Sean Young from 1995. Even though it is a comedy, it has many of the same scientific elements that you mentioned. Would make a great series for HBO I agree.

I thought of that too. That would really be the ultimate fantasy (being able to transform from one state to the other instantly). However, I don't think it will ever be possible, which is why I've been trying to think of ways to make the transformation happen, even if it could take a while.


I wouldn't want to go back to the age of 7 again however...whether my memory was retained or not. Puberty was tough enough to go through once as a boy and I don't care to revisit that territory again.

There is much to learn though. Childhood is the foundation of your life.

androgynouskinky
04-12-2005, 05:47 PM
Dont know much about genetics, but if you follow this solution, allowing the body to "Regenerate parts" wouldn't you go through puberty again as your mature as a female and as a side effect how about teething. Other options could inclue mixed male and female using XXY or XYX chromosomes, I think the addition of this chromosome causes downs syndrome???? Have Fun :D

Nyx
04-12-2005, 09:55 PM
Dont know much about genetics, but if you follow this solution, allowing the body to "Regenerate parts" wouldn't you go through puberty again as your mature as a female and as a side effect how about teething. Other options could inclue mixed male and female using XXY or XYX chromosomes, I think the addition of this chromosome causes downs syndrome???? Have Fun :D

Actually XXY is the klinefelter syndrome... Which is not good at all ;) But by modifying other genes (not just chromosomic replacement), you might be able to get an androgynous state that is more interesting.

Davena
04-15-2005, 07:37 PM
YES

I like your idea... :)

Nyx
04-15-2005, 10:52 PM
YES

I like your idea... :)

Now, we just need ressources to finance a lab and research activities ;)

SilkenPrincess
04-16-2005, 11:20 AM
But personally, my main concern is actually the effectiveness of the transformation.

My ultimate goal would be to bear children. If that could be possible, I wouldn't care how long the process took. That would be the effectiveness level I would look for. And flip-flopping back and forth would NEVER be considered. Why would I WANT to go back to a condition of mismatched halves if I could be a unity? Flip-flopping may be something that some would want, but for the life of me I just can't see the reasoning behind it. For those of you who would like to go back and forth, more power to ya! But for me, once I was fixed I would never go back to being broken.
Love,
SilkenPrincess

Nyx
04-16-2005, 11:13 PM
I agree, I definitely want to have kids later on as well. This is another of the things I find is lacking from current transexualisation techniques. Even though its not as popular nowadays, being able to bear children is a great gift.

Nyx
04-17-2005, 12:54 PM
Yes, If this was "fantasy island". But it isn't. So we have to learn to live with it.

I still hope this will become possible before I die... And it just might be. In the meantime, I reserve myself the right to have scientifically coherent fantasies ;)


True GG's may have to go through puberty for a few years...but we have to go through puberty for a lot longer than that...it just never seems to end. We indulge and then purge....again and again. No wonder the rest of the world thinks we are "in need of professional help"?!!

I think most people are in need of professional help. People go to a yearly medical exam, why not a routine psychological exam? That could possibly solve and prevent many problems.

MarieTS
04-17-2005, 08:57 PM
I understand why Nyx said she would like to retain her male memory following her Brave New World transformation. Or, at least why I would want to. That reason being, that we often don't appreciate what we have. If we retained some memory of our male existance, we would be more appreciative of finally reaching our goal of being converted to the proper gender.

Nyx
04-17-2005, 10:04 PM
I understand why Nyx said she would like to retain her male memory following her Brave New World transformation. Or, at least why I would want to. That reason being, that we often don't appreciate what we have. If we retained some memory of our male existance, we would be more appreciative of finally reaching our goal of being converted to the proper gender.

I think you expressed it very well. Thats mostly what I was thinking. I wouldn't want not to appreciate myself afterwards. But its also because I value myself as a person... And if I ended up being a totally different person, then there would be no point. I would want to benefit from all that I have learned. I would want to be an improved version of me, not just a totally different person.

Sharon
04-17-2005, 11:17 PM
Of course beauty isn't all, but denying that it has any importance is naive. If you were asked to describe the woman you would want to be, surely you would not say that you dream of being a 300 pound bald woman... Or a transexual woman that everyone sees as a man-in-a-dress, and not as a woman. Lets face it: everyone wants to be a beautiful person.

I don't find this naive at all Nyx -- you're missing the point of the post. If I had my preference, of course I would want to be beautiful! But even more important is that I be able to be the person on the exterior that I feel on the interior.
I can't do too much with what was given to me by my Maker, but I do with it what I can. If the best I can do is be a "300-pound man-in-a-dress," then that is what I will be.
Modern medicine and surgery can do some amazing things nowadays if you have the means to take advantage of them. Beyond this though, would it be preferable to remain in a body that you feel is "wrong?" If so, then I seriously doubt you are a transsexual.
And don't forget the old adage, "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder." For every person out there, no matter how they appear, there are those who find their particular characteristics appealing.
I can tell by your posts that you're very intelligent and give great weight to the things you write. I'm just not sure your priorities are quite right.

Sigrid
04-18-2005, 01:43 AM
Nyx

I like your train of thought.....but,

<Nyx - "Creating a female clone of yourself, as I mentioned earlier, is something we already have the means to do".>

They've cloned one sheep, Dolly, who was put to sleep at the age of six, half the normal life span of sheep. Cloning a human being and expecting it to live a full life won't happen for decades if only for the moral and legal issues which first must be debated and resolved.

<Nyx - "Of course, if this ever becomes possible, it won't happen instantly, but most likely over the course of a few years".>

Again, decades. I've had some exposure in the medical industry and have witnessed just how long it takes to get breakthrough tools and drugs though the testing and approvals process. Years alone for even what seem to be the most innocuous and beneficial products. And that doesn't begin to address the years, even decades of research which preceed them.

In the late 1950's the medical community began seriously predicting that a cure for cancer was within reach. Fifty years later they may actually be seeing some real progress. And yet, still are cautiously estimating many, many years before a cure becomes a reality.

<Nyx - "It might be "sci-fi", but its not that far from reality".>

Of all the sci-fi I've read in my life, I've only seen two examples of where sci-fi predictions actually have become a reality;
1. France’s George Melies’ 1902 film "Trip to the Moon". We got there sixty seven years later.
2. Communicators ala Star Trek. I had a cell phone in my hand just twenty five years later.

<Nyx - "I still hope this will become possible before I die... And it just might be. In the meantime, I reserve myself the right to have scientifically coherent fantasies">

Technology has grown by leaps and bounds in my lifetime and appears breakthroughs may be beginning to grow exponentially. Based on the rate of progress in the last century - no way will this happen in your lifetime. Based on the rate of progress in the last five to ten years - who knows?

No technological, scientific or medical breakthrough was based on doubt. It takes allot of imagination and passion (and a shitload of money) to push the boundaries in these fields. Looks like you're at least two/thirds the way there.


As to your original question;

If indeed this could be accomplished, then yes I'd certainly entertain the thought. It would be nice to "naturally" assume the physical appearance of a female. But, my likely decision would be to pass, much for the same reason I've never given serious thought to the notion of undergoing SRS. You simply haven't explained how they would re-engineer the soul. In the soul is where the real woman resides.

~Sigrid

Nyx
04-18-2005, 05:07 PM
They've cloned one sheep, Dolly, who was put to sleep at the age of six, half the normal life span of sheep. Cloning a human being and expecting it to live a full life won't happen for decades if only for the moral and legal issues which first must be debated and resolved.

Cloning a human is no different from cloning a sheep. Also, its not illegal everywhere, and since its something many scientists want to do, its bound to happen, if it hasn't happened already.


Again, decades. I've had some exposure in the medical industry and have witnessed just how long it takes to get breakthrough tools and drugs though the testing and approvals process. Years alone for even what seem to be the most innocuous and beneficial products. And that doesn't begin to address the years, even decades of research which preceed them.

I was not reffering to this technology here, but to the actual transformation process.


In the late 1950's the medical community began seriously predicting that a cure for cancer was within reach. Fifty years later they may actually be seeing some real progress. And yet, still are cautiously estimating many, many years before a cure becomes a reality.

The technology I have been talking about could possibly cure cancer too, as a matter of fact.


Of all the sci-fi I've read in my life, I've only seen two examples of where sci-fi predictions actually have become a reality;
1. France’s George Melies’ 1902 film "Trip to the Moon". We got there sixty seven years later.
2. Communicators ala Star Trek. I had a cell phone in my hand just twenty five years later.

Computers, submarines, airplanes, even electricity, those are all things many people never thought possible. Its not because people are skeptical that its not possible.


Technology has grown by leaps and bounds in my lifetime and appears breakthroughs may be beginning to grow exponentially. Based on the rate of progress in the last century - no way will this happen in your lifetime. Based on the rate of progress in the last five to ten years - who knows?

Assuming I eat well, keep doing some exercise and live carefully in general, I might very well live 60 more years, and possibly even more. And since cloning, along with genetic engineering, are already possible, combined with the imminent need for such a technology (mainly to cure AIDS and cancer), it might very well happen early enough.


But, my likely decision would be to pass, much for the same reason I've never given serious thought to the notion of undergoing SRS. You simply haven't explained how they would re-engineer the soul. In the soul is where the real woman resides.

I assume you mean "the mind", here. If you are a transexual, then you don't need anybody to "re-engineer" your mind.

Sigrid
04-19-2005, 02:33 AM
Computers, submarines, airplanes, even electricity, .

yeah, just after I hit the post button, I came up with computers, submarines, television and lasers. Add nanotechnologies to the list too.



I assume you mean "the mind", here. .

No, I meant the soul. I believe there's a distinciton, but I'm not going there now.


Believe that I'm a strong proponent of scientific, technological and medical research and advancement. I sincerely hope that what you've proposed can be accomplished in your (hell, my) lifetime. The true implications would be unfathomable. Genetic Sexual Reassignment (GSR) would itself probably be just a footnote in grand picture. I'm not one to dissmiss out of hand such seemingly far fetched concepts. When I started my career designing 64kbps audio circuits, I wouldn't have dreamed that I would have ended it designing 2.4 gigabit fiber optic links.

Lets just agree to disagree on the timeline, however.



Back to your question;

I am not transsexual. However, if I were and I was already committed to sexual reassignment and this were a viable and safe alternative to surgury and it was economicaly within my means and they could reverse the aging process so I could assume the body of a 21 year old (I'd want to go clubbing soon after) and I could retain my lifetime of memories and.......well, sure, why not?

Danielle1960
04-19-2005, 08:11 AM
If you could become a beautiful woman but the deal came with a life expectancy of only 6 months, would you do it? If so you would wake up as a 10 but at the end of six months that is it......

Of course in this decision would be your current life you are leaving, so this would mean saying goodbye to your children, wife, family ect. ???


Oh well,, couldn't resist throwing a wrench into the conversation.

Danielle :)

Davena
04-20-2005, 03:24 PM
Nyx
Of all the sci-fi I've read in my life, I've only seen two examples of where sci-fi predictions actually have become a reality;
1. France’s George Melies’ 1902 film "Trip to the Moon". We got there sixty seven years later.
2. Communicators ala Star Trek. I had a cell phone in my hand just twenty five years later.


I remember the original ST series when I was a child. So what have you left out... Computers, shuttlecraft, a spacestation, color monitors, harmless energy weapons (taser and the other thingie with the electric spark?), cd music disc, DVD movie disc, widescreen televisions, home entertainment systems that rival theaters. Automatic opening doors. The neutron bomb would be like the photon torpedo I guess. Laserbeam weapons. MRI and Catscan... Thats all i can think of that I remember from the 60's ST series...

Sigrid
04-20-2005, 05:48 PM
yeah, I thought of several others too, some of which I've noted in my subsequent post. It was late, I was tired.

AmyCarter
04-20-2005, 06:22 PM
If you could become a beautiful woman but the deal came with a life expectancy of only 6 months, would you do it? If so you would wake up as a 10 but at the end of six months that is it......

Of course in this decision would be your current life you are leaving, so this would mean saying goodbye to your children, wife, family ect. ???


Oh well,, couldn't resist throwing a wrench into the conversation.

Danielle :)
Not for six months, but for 18 months, i would take up that offer in a heartbeat.
My schedule would be: first 3 to 6 months - find a husband, get married, get pregnant. Last 3 to 6 months - raise my baby.
At that point, my life would be 'complete'.

Elysia
04-25-2005, 09:29 PM
Nyx, thanks for your fascinating thoughts. I don’t know how far off any of this stuff might be and I’m sure there are a thousand moral and ethical dilemmas that will need to be addressed as this stuff becomes less theory and more reality but it sure does get one thinking. I thought what would happen if we could get cloning worked out so that we could produce a body into which we could transfer a mind.

Not only could you choose your gender but you could live forever. When the body you’ve got starts to get old just transfer your mind, memories and everything into a new one. Go the first half of the century as a blond, the next half as a brunette. You could try on all the colors of the world. Racism and sexism would end and we’d all end up loving each other for our minds. People would then realize that it’s what’s inside that really matters.

Ariel
04-25-2005, 09:41 PM
No thankyou, don't want to say bye to my lovely wife and kids. I have often thought bout the going back in time, and wanting to be able to remember everything that I now know. It would be neat, but I'm not sure that I would want to go through the painful times that I have been through, again.

stephanie1977
04-26-2005, 04:36 PM
If it were possible I think I would go for it but I would only want selective memories retained. I wouldn't want all the hardships that I've gone through to be kept. Only the good memories.

Ashley in Virginia
04-28-2005, 01:14 PM
Of course beauty isn't all, but denying that it has any importance is naive. If you were asked to describe the woman you would want to be, surely you would not say that you dream of being a 300 pound bald woman... Or a transexual woman that everyone sees as a man-in-a-dress, and not as a woman. Lets face it: everyone wants to be a beautiful person.

I don't find this naive at all Nyx -- you're missing the point of the post. If I had my preference, of course I would want to be beautiful! But even more important is that I be able to be the person on the exterior that I feel on the interior.
I can't do too much with what was given to me by my Maker, but I do with it what I can. If the best I can do is be a "300-pound man-in-a-dress," then that is what I will be.
Modern medicine and surgery can do some amazing things nowadays if you have the means to take advantage of them. Beyond this though, would it be preferable to remain in a body that you feel is "wrong?" If so, then I seriously doubt you are a transsexual.
And don't forget the old adage, "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder." For every person out there, no matter how they appear, there are those who find their particular characteristics appealing.
I can tell by your posts that you're very intelligent and give great weight to the things you write. I'm just not sure your priorities are quite right.
Something we can agree on :) lol. I think as one gets older we begin to be able to see the beauty of a person within. At age 18 I put off dressing fully becasue I knew I would never be beautiful like the women I see out in the world. But after socializing and learning more and more about people, you begin to overlook a few extra pounds or scars or a third eye or whatever makes them "not perfectly beautiful" and are able to see the beauty within.

Maybe in time, she will want to go ahead and transition and be a "man in a dress" so to speak because she found her beauty within? But we can't fault her for her thoughts on beauty now, because for all of her life she has been brainwashed by the media about what is or isnt beautiful. :)

girlintouch
05-13-2005, 12:04 AM
Yes of cource and more than ever every day

Vicky A
05-13-2005, 04:57 AM
My ultimate goal would be to bear children. If that could be possible, I wouldn't care how long the process took. That would be the effectiveness level I would look for. And flip-flopping back and forth would NEVER be considered. Why would I WANT to go back to a condition of mismatched halves if I could be a unity? Flip-flopping may be something that some would want, but for the life of me I just can't see the reasoning behind it. For those of you who would like to go back and forth, more power to ya! But for me, once I was fixed I would never go back to being broken.
Love,
SilkenPrincess

I agree with you SilkenPrincess as that would be the ultimate goal - to bear children like any other female. I could not stand flip-flopping either for same reasons you just mentioned.
love,
Vicky A

eleventhdr
06-17-2005, 02:01 PM
Yes I know just what you mean. But Yes I would still op out to become GG but not the way it is still being done now today this is still very primitive way for a male to become GG and is still very unsatisfactory really. Until they study and finally find out how lower animals are able to change sex this is the only way i would op out for this or maybe by using female hormones direct from female to alter a male complety or something along these lines indeed then yes i would do so in a minute you bet. Oh well!. Suzy!.

Milla
06-17-2005, 06:51 PM
Nano tech , but thats a long way away.

Deborah
07-12-2005, 03:24 PM
My ultimate goal would be to bear children. If that could be possible, I wouldn't care how long the process took. That would be the effectiveness level I would look for. And flip-flopping back and forth would NEVER be considered. Why would I WANT to go back to a condition of mismatched halves if I could be a unity? Flip-flopping may be something that some would want, but for the life of me I just can't see the reasoning behind it. For those of you who would like to go back and forth, more power to ya! But for me, once I was fixed I would never go back to being broken.
Love,
SilkenPrincess

I'm with you. ;)

Julie
07-14-2005, 08:10 PM
This is something that's been covered in other threads. In one, I responded with reference to an article I read years ago where scientists had discovered the aging gene in lab mice. They were able to stop the aging process. Of course I knew if this were to ever happen with humans it would destroy our delicate balance we now have with nature and havoc would ensue. The earth would soon become so overpopulated we'd probably end up killing one another just to get some alone time or for food, which become a scarce commodity.

But your idea has a problem that may not be solvable and that's de-aging. Can the human body actually grow younger? For your scenario to become a reality it would have to. Because even if you were able to alter the DNA to that of a female version of yourself you'd still have things like bone structure which would not be affected, except in the area of osteoporosis in later life. The only way to change bone structure is by de-aging and going through the growth process again, but this time as a female. Ponce deLeon couldn't find it and I doubt we will either.

Nice thought though. But for me, I'll just have to rely on reincarnation to do the trick. It's an easier pill to swallow.

Nyx
07-16-2005, 01:03 AM
I didn't think this thread would survive that long. Glad to see its still there ;)

As for de-aging. I would rather call it regeneration. Its mostly a matter of progressively replacing old tissues and organs. Of course, the trickiest part is really the brain, but I believe that even there, by introducing a slow neural regeneration, one could retain his/her memory and personality while the brain is being regenerated.

Some people believe that aging is caused by long-term use. I don't. If you look at young children, and young adults (up to say, 25 at least), it looks like they're not aging. Their condition is not decreasing. You only really see a certain level of aging in the 30s (perhaps at 35). I believe this is due to the fact that cells begin to reproduce at a slower rate, which inevitably means that sustained damage will not be fully repaired, which results in aging.

If we could create a regeneration process, using stem cells and retroviruses that would stimulate the reproduction of cells and stabilitze their reproduction rate at a higher frequency, it might be possible for people to become younger again, and stay that way for long. If its really impossible to just regenerate organs, we can just create new ones. It might be possible, at some point, to grow human organs in laboratories based on stem cell cultures.

As for bone structure, we can help it a bit by regenerating it, possibly by selectively destroying bone parts and making them grow again, but with female DNA and hormones, creating a naturally feminine bone structure.

Of course, all these procedures might sound very drastic, but if its done over the course of a long time (as long as perhaps 10 years), then the risks can be reduced.

kazeparker
07-29-2005, 05:38 PM
Some scientists have been working on a process similar to the described regeneration of old cells to a more viable state by reversing the degeneration of mitochondria in the cells to give the overall body a younger state, but it was unclear to me how far they can regenerate the mitochondria in terms of years. They seemed certain that one could not go the opposite way through puberty as I guess the mitochondria don't start wearing out to a noticeable extent by oxidation until after the body has fully grown (that portion of their research was also quite ambiguous, as they've only theorized based off of current test results). But who knows, really; I think there's been some amazing things to come out of scientific and medical research that boggles the mind as it is, and someone with enough imagination could figure out a way to do it. Maybe the methods of regenerating mitochondria could be used in conjunction with replacing tissue and organs, possibly on tissue that would be difficult to successfully replace. There is already a medication on the market that supposedly can slow mitochondria deterioration, though it's hard to determine the results as it's new and there's little that can be done to see the effects it has on an aging body.

As for the idea of using a virus to change genetic code, I'm aware that a cancer-hunting virus can seek out the cancerous cells and inject the DNA to fix those cells, but I believe their target is specific (though I'm sure having a healthy cell receive healthy DNA wouldn't do much harm anyways). Would it be possible to create a virus to change all types of cells, or would it require a series of viruses with specific targets?

I think the most interesting part is that any virus like that would be the first virus designed to change every single cell eventually. Granted, the viruses won't have created all of the cells as some of the newly-coded cells would divide and make a presence that way, but the thought of every single cell eventually changing is mind-boggling. So long as there were enough viruses to guarantee that the newly-coded cells would be able to divide and become the only cells remaining, as the old DNA would remain in many cells that would still have the ability to divide were they not stopped.

The second thing that intrigues me about this is it could potentially throw DNA evidence out the window if a criminal were to do something illegal and then immediately begin to change his/her genetic code severely, depending on the timeframe between when evidence was found and when the criminal is tested (which sometimes takes years). But maybe that would be an incentive to rework the system and make processes like the judicial system move faster, though, since the chromosomes wouldn't change overnight.

Anyways, to answer the initial post, I'd do it.

Kera_Efflorescence
07-30-2005, 12:17 AM
Definitely, I would do it. Maybe make myself a year or two younger... with a better metabolism... clear skin, healthy immune system.... but see, then we start getting into genetic manipulation to match an ideal of perfection. I guess it's a little better because it's on yourself instead of your children, but we're still talking about giving people the ability to remove everything they dislike about their bodies.

Now, this may sound like a wonderful world to some people, and I selfishly tend to feel the same way --- but the fact is, we'd quickly turn into a race of super-intelligent, beautiful, ultra healthy, eternally young beings. Ignoring the overpopulation issues, okay, great... but we have no variety anymore. Part of the reason people develop their different interests and personalities in life has to do with where their strengths and weaknesses lie. But in this world, everyone will have strengths, and no weaknesses. I mean, given the chance, why have it any other way? Why would anyone decide to have any part of their body be sub-standard when they can choose to have it all be perfect? And if they did choose imperfection, they would quickly be trampled and outpeformed by everyone else who did choose perfection (this is starting to remind me of movie Gataca).

In a way, it would be like playing a game of poker in which everyone cheats. What's the point of playing when everyone lays down a hand of 5 aces?


Erm sorry for rambling and getting more into the ethical issues of genetic manipulation.

A little bit more on topic though --- if you kept all your memories, you wouldn't REALLY be experiencing what a 7 year old girl experiences, because you'd be looking at everything through the veil of your past memories, thoughts and predjudices. What I'd prefer myself is to experience growing up again as a new girl with no old memories... but then being able to somehow regain my old consciousness and compare notes. Or somehow have had that consciousness present but not active... or something?

kazeparker
07-30-2005, 01:43 AM
Ah, but if we all became super intelligent, perhaps we could shed some of our ignorance that plagues us and solve the overpopulation issue ethically ;)

I'd imagine that if everyone had strengths and little to no weaknesses, then careers would be based on passions rather than abilities, and those passions would still be determined through experimentation. It's doubtful that even with all strengths, they would still vary from person to person (unless our genetic code became exactly the same in each person, which would possibly destroy our race as a whole because no child would be able to receive a different set of DNA from both parents, which would be comparable to what happens in an incestual relationship that results in children with deformities or the inability to sustain itself in the world). With all strengths but to varying degrees, there'd still be a variety of interests and career pursuits. Or, we'd learn to organize so those with the greatest strengths work towards a specific achievement for us as a civilization, and each group with their specific strengths could harmoniously contribute their specific achievement to make everything better for everyone. Though if that second option were realized, it'd probably mean an increase in science and technology research and development, while the arts would decline.

Anyways, those are my theories. It's also possible that everyone would want to play professional basketball with their strengths or something to that extent of a lack of diversity, though I still see people using their strengths in different ways.

MissBosie
07-30-2005, 04:13 PM
My brain hurts.

MarinaTwelve200
07-30-2005, 06:26 PM
I read a poll several years ago that suggested that up to 75% of hetro males would elect to be a female for a week or two, provided the change was COMPLETE and they could change back---Quite interesting. We guys are a curious lot.


Back to genetics, If the DNA could be changed, at the very most we could expect "soft tissue" changes. meaning the skin and organs and muscles might change, but the skeleton likely would not. It is mostly a lattice of "minerals" and ceases to grow at maturity. The only bones that MAY grow bigger, as seen in some forms of "giantisim" are the hands, Feet and jaw.---As females they wouldnt GROW anyway.--Indeed we want those to shrink, which they will not do.

Breasts, hips, and fat distribution wouldnt happen, despite complete DNA change, until The Testes athropied and the ovaries developed and started producing hormones.


Another thing to consider, aside from DNA change alone, is the Theory of the "BIOMETRIC FIELD" This has been proposed as an electromagnetic(?) or energy field that causes the individual cells, despite their DNA, to assemble themselves into the correct overall configuration of the organisim.----There MAy be some hope here, as even the skeleton deteriates and is replaced, cell by cell, the biometric Field might influence HOW the structures are replaced.---Eventually, the entire shape of the orgnasim MAY be altered.----It MAy be even more important than DNA in this respect.

Like2BAspen
07-30-2005, 07:23 PM
being a woman would be the most wonderful thing in the world but for all the benefits there are sacrifices I am not ready to sacrifice my children so I must be satisfied with just being aspen when I can. If I did not have my children I would already be a full time gurl all the way

Katie Ashe
08-08-2005, 11:21 AM
Tough Q. I wish I was born a GG. It would be easier on my feelings. But no I wouldn't have any surgery's. If my family and wife rejected me... I would move to a remote city in the middle of nowhere and not tell them where. Then live the life I want. I'm not comfortable with current tech yet, HRT is an option, but at what cost. My health is more important. I wouldn't want to lose my voice forever, or go blind, sexual feeling is important to me also. Everyone situation is different and dictates how they feel. One whom changes there body has to be for it 100% or not at all. You can't stop SRS in the middle or it... or I don't like my new chin out the old one back. We aren't built like cars, everyone needs to think about these things. I wish I had no body hair and had a girls voice... it would make CD'ing much easier. I'm happy being male/female for the most part. None of this make much sense I guess; sorry for rambling.

SammyGirl
08-09-2005, 02:13 AM
YESSSSSS! If only that was possible! I am with you as long as it does not affect my memory at all. I definitely go for it if all was assure would be successful.

Sammy

arula
08-09-2005, 02:40 AM
ah, yea. XO Arula

Vallari
08-31-2005, 04:53 AM
I am not a genetics enthusiast so I can't really say anything about all that.

If the technology was better and the risks of permanent possible damages (such as loosing your voice or ability to orgasm) were much much lower or non-existant, I would seriously consider it. Lately I have been intrigued by testosterone blockers but need to do research on this obviously.

For now I stick with silicone breasts, padded panties and a low male voice..:o