Another Zarabeth thinkin question...

[Bethany_Anne_Fae]

I was out and about recently and I came across a CD who was 74, and wearing essentially a Brittany Spears type Catholic schoolgirl outfit.

Suffice to say she looked very out of place in a public setting (of course I did not say this to her), but she said to me (after we got to talking) "when I look in the mirror, I can only see myself at 18".

She was very well spoken and oblivious to the looks she was getting.

My questions (youthful looks at an older age aside):

1) Do you feel the same way or see something different when you look in the mirror?

2) Are you afraid of becoming a charicature in regards to what you think a woman is supposed to be?

3) Does anyone not care if they become a charicature (screw what anyone thinks I'll dress the way I like) at any age?

These are just thinking questions and not designed to put anyone on the spot. No need to answer if you feel it is inappropriate for you.

*hugs*

Zara

[KatrinaAshley]

I see myself and nothing more. I can't condemn anyone who chooses to dress inappropriately for their age if that's what they want to wear that day. They may stand out a lot, but no more than the guy screaming for attention on the street corner or a sports streaker. Maybe they want the attention, maybe they don't care and just want to live the moment.

[Kate Simmons]

Doesn't matter what I think I see Zara, when I try a look, I usually take a few pics as pics don't lie, even though I pay off the mirror.:heehee: I'm Salandra, caricature notwithstanding. Don't know what that means really but with me, what you see is what you get Hon (and then some :p).

[jaina]

She was very well spoken and oblivious to the looks she was getting.

My questions (youthful looks at an older age aside):

1) Do you feel the same way or see something different when you look in the mirror?


No, I have a pretty good idea who and how old I am.



2) Are you afraid of becoming a charicature in regards to what you think a woman is supposed to be?


not at all




3) Does anyone not care if they become a charicature (screw what anyone thinks I'll dress the way I like) at any age?


I've never gone for the Mutton dressed as Lamb look.

[DawnRodgers]

My who;e goal is to look as much as a typical lady as possible. Do not wear excessive makeup, short skirts, tight fitting clothes. Want to look like a woman that a normal man would like to take out to dinner. Want to be looked at, not stared at.

[docrobbysherry]

[QUOTE=Lady Zarabeth;1115483]

My questions (youthful looks at an older age aside):

1) Do you feel the same way or see something different when you look in the mirror?
I may not see what everyone else sees. But, I DON'T WANT to see the male me at all when I dress!

2) Are you afraid of becoming a charicature in regards to what you think a woman is supposed to be?
I guess if I'm NOT a caricature, I'm nothing at all as a CD!

3) Does anyone not care if they become a charicature (screw what anyone thinks I'll dress the way I like) at any age?
Well, Sherry has been described as a, " blowup doll", and, "Barbie doll". I thought those were compliments. Because they r both hot.

I have some pics where I think I look like a girl under 18, and, as a 60 y/o, I'm proud of those pics! However, maybe I cheat with my special faces, and my look would NEVER pass. Just me, Sherry, my mirror and camera!
RS

[Nicki B]

Each to their own? Let her have her fantasy now, if she couldn't have it before?

The one thing I've learnt about transgendered people is we come in a huge variety of flavours, some of it (DQ, LG) unashamedly caricature - and that's our strength..

[lisa_e_love]

1) Do you feel the same way or see something different when you look in the mirror?

2) Are you afraid of becoming a charicature in regards to what you think a woman is supposed to be?

3) Does anyone not care if they become a charicature (screw what anyone thinks I'll dress the way I like) at any age?



Zara, I don't know if you've ever seen Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, but the Kid is always turning to Butch and saying, "You're a thinker, Butch. You just keep thinkin'. That's what you do best." I feel like swapping Zara for Butch and saying that to you every time you post one of these wonderful thought-provoking threads.

1) I feel something different when I look in the mirror after I am all done. I feel like I'm still me, but I'm so elated to be able to look so pretty.

2) I don't really want to be seen as a caricature. In the comfort of my own home I'd have no problem trying on a Britney Spears catholic schoolgirl outfit if one miraculously fell into my lap but I wouldn't wear one out in public. When I'm out I want to be seen as a woman.

3) I'm in a lucky position of being in my 20s - I don't really have to start worrying about dressing my age for several years. But, when the time comes, I would try and match my outfit to my years.

[carolinewalker_2000]

As they saw; "you are as old as you feel". In private, I think we should allow ourselves to be and dress however we like - after all many of us only came to dressing later in life and so missed out on all those "girly" years - (lucky Lisa, and girls like her, who have embraced their femininity at such a young age). If, therefore, we feel like dressing in mini-skirts, or whatever, at home, no harm done.

Where I have an issue with inappropriate dressing is when girls go out in public. We face enough misunderstanding and prejudice from society as it is, we can't really afford to encourage the belief that we are all freaks. I say, dress and behave appropiately to your age and venue when out in public; - at home; let your wildest fantisies rip!!!

[Sally24]

Where I have an issue with inappropriate dressing is when girls go out in public. We face enough misunderstanding and prejudice from society as it is!
Got to agree there. If you're at a club, then anything goes. But if you're at a more traditional public function, try not to dress like a hooker!

As for me, I try very hard to be realistic in my goals. Usually I am too hard on myself. I want to look as good as I can be, but not push the envelope of reality. I'm in my 50's but usually dress as if I was in my 30's and 40's. I usually seem to get away with it too!

[Vicky_Scot]

I look in the mirror and see me, thats all I ever see.

I really think that if we are all honest we obviously become wordly wise with age but on the inside we feel as we have always felt. Do we really ever age on the inside although our exterior shows the passing of the years.

What I will say is you must dress according to the exterior and not the interior........Unfortunately!!!

[Nicki B]

Where I have an issue with inappropriate dressing is when girls go out in public. We face enough misunderstanding and prejudice from society as it is, we can't really afford to encourage the belief that we are all freaks. I say, dress and behave appropiately to your age and venue when out in public; - at home; let your wildest fantisies rip!!!

I disagree, very strongly - there's room for all of us? Hopefully any of the UK girls who've met Miss Michaela Marbella will understand why? What she does is effectively performance art, and I've never seen the general public not be impressed, nor smile at what she does? She certainly stops the traffic.. :heehee:

And there's always Claire/Grayson Perry (http://arts.guardian.co.uk/turnerprize2003/story/0,,1090056,00.html)...

From L to R - MMM in London, Brighton (Races) & NYC.

[uknowhoo]

Thanx for the thread Zarabeth. The more recent posts have me harkeneing back to a great thread from 2 years ago. (damn, does that kinda sound like "when I was a girl..." :p) Here's the linky dinky - pages 2 and 4 are well worth the read (kinda downhill after that IMHO): http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19187

Here's one of my contributions from back then...

Stephanie, Marlena, Susandrea, Becky, Haley, Marla, and especially Sophia... thank you all so much for your thoughtful contributions to this thread. This [page 2 of thread] is the best page full of posts I've read in a very long time.

To me, this issue is a bit like the flag burning debate (here in the U.S.). The flag represents many liberties, chief among them freedom of speech. Burning a flag is quite a statement indeed.

We are lucky enough to live in a country where we can express ourselves freely. Do I want to be able to express myself freely as a crossdresser? Of course I do. Do I think the several examples of "over the top" expression referenced are going to advance our cause? Most likely not. Do I think being good ambassadors by being good people will advance our cause? Most asssuredly, and I applaud such efforts.

That said, the idea of one guy in a dress (who just a minute before was decrying the social inequities we suffer) pointing his very well-manicured finger to condemn a fellow CDer whom he considers "over the top" strikes me as not just hypocracy, but ridiculous.

A key point many seem to miss is we are legally permitted to do what we do (short of indecent exposure or disturbing the peace). There's nothing legally stopping any one of us from getting all ****tied up and walkin down the street with a sign on our chest reading "I am a proud crossdresser." The only reason we don't is our own (albeit justified) fear of non-acceptance. So some of us stay in the closet, some of us confide in just a very few close friends, others get out there a bit, others are way out there. And you know what? It's all good, because the more progress we all make toward accepting ourselves and others, the more our cause is advanced.

I just heard the ramble warning go off. I'll shut up now. Thanks to those of you who read this far. **curtsey** Hugs, Tammi

[Marla S]

IMO the problem is:
Are there boundaries beyond the line we all cross by crossdressing ?
We already broke the main taboo ! Are there others beyond that line ?


A caricature is either a portrait that exaggerates or distorts the essence of a person or thing to create an easily identifiable visual likeness, or in literature, a description of a person using exaggeration of some characteristics and oversimplification of others.

According to this definition, we are all caricatures of women by exaggerating "femininity" wearing wigs, breast forms, and usually stereotypical clothes etc.

Is any better than the other ?:idontknow:
Who throws the first stone ?

[Bethany_Anne_Fae]

Thanx for the thread Zarabeth. The more recent posts have me harkeneing back to a great thread from 2 years ago. (damn, does that kinda sound like "when I was a girl..." :p) Here's the linky dinky - pages 2 and 4 are well worth the read (kinda downhill after that IMHO): http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19187

Here's one of my contributions from back then...

Stephanie, Marlena, Susandrea, Becky, Haley, Marla, and especially Sophia... thank you all so much for your thoughtful contributions to this thread. This [page 2 of thread] is the best page full of posts I've read in a very long time.

To me, this issue is a bit like the flag burning debate (here in the U.S.). The flag represents many liberties, chief among them freedom of speech. Burning a flag is quite a statement indeed.

We are lucky enough to live in a country where we can express ourselves freely. Do I want to be able to express myself freely as a crossdresser? Of course I do. Do I think the several examples of "over the top" expression referenced are going to advance our cause? Most likely not. Do I think being good ambassadors by being good people will advance our cause? Most asssuredly, and I applaud such efforts.

That said, the idea of one guy in a dress (who just a minute before was decrying the social inequities we suffer) pointing his very well-manicured finger to condemn a fellow CDer whom he considers "over the top" strikes me as not just hypocracy, but ridiculous.

A key point many seem to miss is we are legally permitted to do what we do (short of indecent exposure or disturbing the peace). There's nothing legally stopping any one of us from getting all ****tied up and walkin down the street with a sign on our chest reading "I am a proud crossdresser." The only reason we don't is our own (albeit justified) fear of non-acceptance. So some of us stay in the closet, some of us confide in just a very few close friends, others get out there a bit, others are way out there. And you know what? It's all good, because the more progress we all make toward accepting ourselves and others, the more our cause is advanced.

I just heard the ramble warning go off. I'll shut up now. Thanks to those of you who read this far. **curtsey** Hugs, Tammi

Thanks for that link Tammy :)

I sorta wish I had found that (thread) in my search before I posted my questions. It seems to have been a hotly debated topic and this new version coming from me must have some of you out there a tad upset (even if you haven't posted anything of the kind).

My problem is that I get curious about the "why" part of what we do, more than the "what is acceptable" aspects. I brought up the older CDer as an example of something I had seen recently.

Personally, my very first thought when I saw her was ...

"Now there is a person who is NOT afraid".

Second:

"Her outfit was a bit over the top as to what I would expect normally"

Third: Was me starting up a conversation her to say "Hi". I was in guy mode as well. She was really nice, always smiling and was seriously enjoying life at that moment.

When I got home I sat thinking about her and the encounter and then decided to pose my questions.
Now, after having read through that whole thread, I can understand where a lot of other peoples mindsets are.

Am I open-minded... somewhat. Probably not nearly as much as I like to think I am. If I were to take what I read at face value then I could see where someone like me (who passes well) is an anathema to some. The Picture thread references part of that made a lot of sense, but (for ME), I don't believe in telling someone they are gorgeous when they are not. I am known for being brutally honest from (MY) perspective. I'm not saying I am right. I'm only saying (and have since my very first post) that if you ask my opinion I will tell you the truth as I see it.

Last thing: I think the interpretation of "BEAUTIFUL, GORGEOUS HOT etc is subjective to each of us. One person's ugly duckling is someone else's Marilyn Monroe ;)

You're mileage may vary

*much hugs*

Zara

[uknowhoo]

I sorta wish I had found that (thread) in my search before I posted my questions. It seems to have been a hotly debated topic and this new version coming from me must have some of you out there a tad upset (even if you haven't posted anything of the kind).

It's not a problem at all Zara:hugs: I'm not upset in the least. I think it's great to have these discussions. It's the nature of this site that threads on the same topic tend to be repeated over time. It's all good though. The thread I linked to was a very good discussion for me, and others who participated... though it may well have been a repeat of a thread a year earlier. :o It's all good, as it allows us - newbies and relatively newbies included- to think and have discussions which hopefuilly contribute to our development, understanding and acceptance (and to find out who the real freaks are!! :p j/k :D)


My problem is that I get curious about the "why" part of what we do, more than the "what is acceptable" aspects.
Zara

I wouldn't consider this a problem at all. I'm sure there are many others who are grateful for thoughtful discussions like these; and those who don't like them, don' have to participate. :) See... it all worx out! :D

Thanx 4 the thread.

xoxo

[Vieja]

What I see, unfortunately, is not what I wish I could see. But I can live with it.

Vieja

[Nicole Erin]

I was out and about recently and I came across a CD who was 74, and wearing essentially a Brittany Spears type Catholic schoolgirl outfit.

Suffice to say she looked very out of place in a public setting (of course I did not say this to her), but she said to me (after we got to talking) "when I look in the mirror, I can only see myself at 18".I imagine when someone hits 74, they realise each day could be their last and are probably DONE worrying about what others think. Heck at that age, might as well quit worrying about the future [aside from spiritual needs]

My questions (youthful looks at an older age aside):

1) Do you feel the same way or see something different when you look in the mirror? When dressed I tend to see a serious lady. That is the dead opposite of my male personna who thinks everything is a big joke. Drab I just see some crazy guy.

2) Are you afraid of becoming a charicature in regards to what you think a woman is supposed to be? NO, like some other CD's, I tend to try to emulate what I think is sexy of a woman. Well dressed and confident. [ain't too sure what charicature is, and MS WORD don't wanna tell me]

3) Does anyone not care if they become a charicature (screw what anyone thinks I'll dress the way I like) at any age? I think age would cause a person to worry less and less. I am GUESSING that peer pressure lessens as one ages. It has for me anyways.


Zara

again

[Michelia]

to go in a mall or any other place dressed, I'll be damned if I am going to worry about whether I am wearing a mini skirt or hose or jeans. I will wear what I want to wear if I think it looks good on me.

Yes, we are all ambassadors to the cause, but I do not believe for one minute that public opinion is formed by what we wear at the mall, as long as it is in good taste.

Just look at the personal ads on the net and on craigslist and CDs are everywhere touting their "oral" skills. This is how most people see us more than anything. Because the ones seeking sex are out there. The ones like us are mostly in the closet or pass.

Yeah, I know I do not get out. Sorry about the contradiction.

Michelia

[Alex!]

My aim is to look as much like a woman of my real age as possible. It would be horrifying to me to appear as "in drag" or "sissy" or "fetish" or whatever.

So many people have this individualistic approach in attitude, and damn what other people think. This is not a healthy approach for citizens in a democratic society, and is even less healthy in an oppressive society (because you can be injured or killed). Being an individual and all that entails is important, indeed critical to one's identity. Individualism - "I am crossdresser, hear me roar!" - is really not impressive and accomplishes very little. In fact, in many instances it becomes self-imposed excile.

But, to each his/her own. We all have our own journeys to undertake. Mine does not involve shock and awe.

[trannie T]

When I dress I try to look a bit dignified and mature. The girl Lady Zarabeth saw was not, she had chosen another way to express herself. Hopefully she was not doing a full Britney impression and was wearing undies. She can dress any way she wishes, some of us are 18 going on 30, others are 74 going on 14.

[Billijo49504]

I dress like I look, a 60 yr old broad that doesn't look a day over 59...BJ

[Melinda G]

I dress to turn myself on! I'm not attracted to old frumps. So why would I dress like one. Nuff said. :D