Transsexual vs. Crossdresser

[erin_123]

I have two questions for the group.....

1) at what point did you identify as a transsexual and not just as crossdresser?

and.....2) What is the underlaying motivation to live full-time as a female, sexuality or identity, or both?

[Anthony Jake]

I have two questions for the group.....

1) at what point did you identify as a transsexual and not just as crossdresser?

and.....2) What is the underlaying motivation to live full-time as a female, sexuality or identity, or both?

:wall:
Umm Hello, just because someone is a transexual or a crossdresser does not mean they want to identify as female, perhaps you just havent noticed the amount of transguys in the world?

What is a female sexual identity? You think just because someone is crossdressing as a female they must have a specific sexual identity? Sexuality varies immensely, it doesnt matter what your gender definition. Take for instance, the Mtf crossdresser, who, though finds enjoyment in his female persona is still happily married and has a family. Just because one chooses to identify as female does not mean that their sexual identity will conform with that of the 'normal' female.

Personally I think your questions are very naive.

I think you discounted half the trans population without realising it, and I think you need to open your eyes a little more to the world.

Anthony.

[AmandaM]

I have two questions for the group.....

1) at what point did you identify as a transsexual and not just as crossdresser?

and.....2) What is the underlaying motivation to live full-time as a female, sexuality or identity, or both?

1. When I felt that it was more than clothes I considered why.
2. Identity, sexuality, the feeling that I am supposed to be a woman. At this point, I probably won't pursue it, but it is probably the correct path. I consider myself "mentally" to at least be non-op TS. I don't mind the bits working. But I "feel female". Does that make sense?

[erin_123]

Anthony - My point is that there is a clinical difference between a transsexual and a crossdresser. I was not trying to raise your temper. A crossdresser is someone who enjoys dressing up as a member of the opposite sex. A transsexual is someone who wished to live full-time as a member of the opposite sex and ultimately undergo sexual reassignment surgury. At least that is my understanding of it. What is your understanding of the difference?

erin

[shirley1]

i have a question here do all ts's know they are ts from an early age ? i recently watched sex change hospital and one person had never had these feelings till they by chance tried on womans clothing - i have been confused myself in the past i dont think i am ts i think i am tv but is it possible that if and when you start going out dressed regulary at any age you could either come to realise you are ts or get confused enough to think the only way to live life full time as a normal person (hate that word) is to transition ? why are there less female to male ts's could it be that society excepts woman dressed male in everyday life - i'm not saying its not possible to know your a ts till later in life in fact maybe i am i certainly wish i'd been born female but i just think there can be confusion for some people its a big step to take after all

[Cai]

Erin - His point was that some of us work very hard to present as not female. And that sexuality is completely separate from gender identity - being gay/lesbian doesn't make you trans, and being trans doesn't automatically mean you're attracted to the opposite gender that you feel yourself to be. (ie you can be a gay transman or a lesbian transwoman)

Shirley - I'm not sure you always know exactly what it is. I didn't realize precisely until I was almost 20. But there was a sense of wrongness my whole life that I couldn't put my finger on.

[Syr_SwitchyGQ]

Anthony - My point is that there is a clinical difference between a transsexual and a crossdresser. I was not trying to raise your temper. A crossdresser is someone who enjoys dressing up as a member of the opposite sex. A transsexual is someone who wished to live full-time as a member of the opposite sex and ultimately undergo sexual reassignment surgury. At least that is my understanding of it. What is your understanding of the difference?

erin

I'm pretty sure he was pointing out that there are Female to Male crossdressers and transsexuals as well as Male to Female. As in, your question was aimed only at transwomen, not all transsexuals (which include transmen). Given that this section of the forum is for transsexuals, the questions should be directed towards people who feel that they have been born into the wrong body, regardless of whether they were born men and identify as female or were born women and identify as male. So, your question, "2) What is the underlaying motivation to live full-time as a female, sexuality or identity, or both? " completely disregards the fact that half of the transsexuals of the world are going to be living full-time as male (even though they were born female), not female (even though they were born male).

[Lanore]

Hello Erin
I had a simular thread and took on a little heat. I was just curious, as I know you are. Good thread.

Lanore

[CaptLex]

why are there less female to male ts's could it be that society excepts woman dressed male in everyday life - i'm not saying its not possible to know your a ts till later in life in fact maybe i am i certainly wish i'd been born female but i just think there can be confusion for some people its a big step to take after all
It's a myth that there are less transmen than transwomen, we're just less visible - but we're working hard to change that. And there can be many different reasons why someone wouldn't realize they're TS until later in life. In my case, I knew it as a child, repressed it during most of my life and came to re-realize it again recently.

[María José]

I have two questions for the group.....

1) at what point did you identify as a transsexual and not just as crossdresser?

and.....2) What is the underlaying motivation to live full-time as a female, sexuality or identity, or both?

1) Perceived gender is not the gender they were assumed to be at birth. SRS is not nescessary.

2) Identity

[Stephenie S]

Speaking as a MtoF here, and not to disregard the other half, I have ALWAYS known that I was a woman. I did not always know that I could or would do anything about it.

I knew I was female as far back as I can remember. I never wished I was a girl. I knew I was a girl. I wished someone would fix my body. When, in my twenties, I realized that prayers, wishes, and magic, were just not going to fix anything, I set about to be the best MAN I could be. That didn't work at all. So for a good part of my life I was a public, and depending on who I was with, private CDer.

I decided to DO something when I started gender therapy. With the help of my therapist, I realized that not only was I a transexual, I also realized that I could actually DO something about it.

So now I am transitioned, or in transition, depending on your definition. I live and work 24/7. I am happier than I have ever been about myself. I have some REALLY gut wrenching problems concerning my loved ones. This is not easy, by any means. But I am finally free to be me, and it's wonderful.

Lovies,
Stephenie

[shirley1]

Erin - His point was that some of us work very hard to present as not female. And that sexuality is completely separate from gender identity - being gay/lesbian doesn't make you trans, and being trans doesn't automatically mean you're attracted to the opposite gender that you feel yourself to be. (ie you can be a gay transman or a lesbian transwoman)

Shirley - I'm not sure you always know exactly what it is. I didn't realize precisely until I was almost 20. But there was a sense of wrongness my whole life that I couldn't put my finger on.

ok i take on board what you are saying and i'm not saying that for some ts's theyknow who or what they are from an early age all i'm saying is for some the need to transistion is more for societies needs - senario i start dressing every day full time from tomorow maybe i'm happy to go back to male mode every now or then or maybe not but is it possible i might get to the point where i might wake up one day and think i must be ts - i dont want to live fulltime as a woman unless i've had the op now - i would just find it confusing if i knew a mate who'd never shown any tv/ts tendancies to try on a dress once and then announce hes ts - thats what someone said in this documentry i saw and it hit a nerve with me because i couldnt understand it i've been cding since i was 14 how can anyone get to my age 40 say and not know until they try a womans item of clothing that theres something wrong before about their life no i dont get that its got nothing to with genetics at 18 yeh undersandable but no not in middle age the person would have to be brain dead and i make no apologies for that statement 1

[Valeria]

It's a myth that there are less transmen than transwomen, we're just less visible - but we're working hard to change that.
I know way more trans guys in real life than trans women. The supposed statistics about prevalence for trans men and trans women are completely bogus (we are all more common than is commonly accepted). Trans guys are particularly more common than is supposed (that, or they've almost all moved to my home town).

I think there are several reasons trans guys are undercounted. One is that some of the statistics are based on how many people have bottom surgery, and guys are a little less likely to do that because it's so much more expensive and the outcomes aren't as spectacularly successful. Another is that it's awfully hard to transition without strong role models or at least a lot of information, and until recently there hasn't been as much of that on the guy side of the equation.

Also, the media isn't as interested in trans guys, because they can't open the report with the image of someone putting on lipstick (because we *all* know that for trans women, it's all about the lipstick). :rolleyes: Because of our misogynistic culture, trans women are viewed as more sensational.

There was a wonderful article earlier this year in bitch magazine (a third-wave feminist magazine, for those not familiar with it) entitled 20th Century Boy. It related the story of a man named Michael Dillon, who lived before the word "transsexual" had been invented, and his quest to live his life as a man in a world where the concept of a trans man didn't exist. Really quite interesting - he actually started taking testosterone in 1938 (only a few years after the substance had been discovered), and he had a series of surgeries to affect his physical transformation. I liked the article so much I based a paper on it.

Anyway, one of the interesting things is that Michael wrote an autobiography, but he died before it was published and his family blocked publication. Otherwise, he might have been the male equivalent of Christine Jorgensen, and have changed the lives of untold men around the world. It's quite tragic, really.

[Valeria]

at what point did you identify as a transsexual and not just as crossdresser?
What makes you think that all of us have ever identified as a crossdresser? For that matter, don't you think some crossdressers might take exception with being labeled "just" a crossdresser, as if it's some lesser state of being?

Anyway, while it seems that some trans people think (or hope) that they might be "just" a crossdresser at various points in their quest for self realization, that's not the only path (and I'm not sure it's even the most common path).

Also, I don't "identify" as a transsexual. I identify as a woman. Since I happen to have been born with genitals that are commonly associated with being a man, that makes me a transsexual woman (or a trans woman, as I prefer). But being transsexual is not a core part of my identity. My identity is that I am a woman - more specifically, a lesbian woman (or as I prefer, a queer woman).

[mike47]

I can't really explain why I decided to dress in womens clothing and go out. I would really have to say it is the feeling of the nylons/stockings. I enjoy showing my legs in them. I really feel more relaxed while in a dress/skirt. It is by far more comfortable to me. I enjoy men because of the feeling I get when with them. I like the strength and harshness about them. But I also enjoy the gentleness too. If I could I would live my life in a dress everyday. That would be a dream come true to me.

[John]

Erin, there are several active threads on this bord pointing out our existance, and asking people not to overlook us like that, may I sugest you read some of them?

at what point did you identify as a transsexual and not just as crossdresser?

I never identified as a crossdressers. for one thing there is rather a diference in criteria betwean ftm crossdressing and mtf crosdressing. I know there was something wrong with my gender, and eventually figured out I was transexual.

What is the underlaying motivation to live full-time as a female, sexuality or identity, or both?

My motivation to live fulltime as not female was identity. To be honist once I'd sussed what was going on it never even ocoured to me to not.


As to the ftm/mtf transexual balance, stats (I think from charring cross clinic) indicate prety much a 50/50 split (I think there may be some verience by a few percent in one direction).

And as Cai said, sexuality and gender are scientifically considered as two spereat things. The ambiguity ocoures in that it can sometimes be hard to determin you're true orientation when you don't know you're pysically the wrong sex, so perseaved/beleaved orientation can shift then working out gender isues.

[kerrianna]

I just want to take a moment here to applaud our FTM people here because time after time they get ignored, discounted, invalidated, disbelieved, dissed...and yet, with dignity and grace (which frankly is more than I can muster after a year of witnessing the same thing), they calmly state their position. I wish truly, that the world were made up of more men like them, because I think they are great leaders in this time.

So I will not myself go errrrrr....or errrrrgggh...or arrrggghhh....cause I know they can look after themselves.


I will answer then Erin's questions, especially given as I am one of the assumed females.

1.at what point did you identify as a transsexual and not just as crossdresser?

it was a gradual process...although quick in some ways. In the one year plus I have been here certainly. I think maybe I haven't totally because I can't quite get my head around how I could live blind for so long. So I'm really suspicious of my own perspective still. We'll see where it goes...but I have to say, when I read about other TS perspectives I totally see myself there, so I guess in that regard it's been coming on over the last year and has taken hold pretty good.

So I'd say it was when I learned there were other people who felt like me and when I learned about how they identified.

When I look in the mirror now I see only female.
It's kind of weird..kind of nice too. Actually...a lot nice.


2) What is the underlaying motivation to live full-time as a female, sexuality or identity, or both?

Motivation? Wow. That's a weird way of putting it.

Huh. I guess what feels TRUE to me. What feels right.

I have no other motivation.

I mean if I had some kind of THING I was trying to achieve, I'm sure there must be an easier way to get it.

I am what I am.

Pretty much it.

Oh, I get it...sexual..or identity..or both.

Well both.

Definitely.

But the brain came first...or did it? Maybe not. It doesn't matter.

BOTH!

[MarciManseau]

1. When I felt that it was more than clothes I considered why.
2. Identity, sexuality, the feeling that I am supposed to be a woman. At this point, I probably won't pursue it, but it is probably the correct path. I consider myself "mentally" to at least be non-op TS. I don't mind the bits working. But I "feel female". Does that make sense?

I agree that you don't have to have surgery to feel more feminine. In my mind, I'm as female as any other woman, and that's how the world perceives me now that I'm full-time. Having SRS would only be a plus for me if I could have children, and sadly that's not possible. Maybe we truly are a third gender, Amanda. We're evolving and improving :happy:

Hugs, Marci :hugs:

[Lisa Golightly]

I have two questions for the group.....

1) at what point did you identify as a transsexual and not just as crossdresser?


When boredom proved senstation pointless...


and.....2) What is the underlaying motivation to live full-time as a female, sexuality or identity, or both?

To stop living as a mere 50%er or as I viewed myself... the unborn.

[Siobhan Marie]

Erin, I will try and answer your questions as best as I can.


1) at what point did you identify as a transsexual and not just as crossdresser?

I am what you would call a late onset transsexual as I only realised what and who I am when I was 30 (am 31 now). For me the female feelings have always been there and I've not been able to deal with them. The confusion grew worse as I grew older to the point of coming very close to taking my own life when I was 19. Nearly two years ago, my friend, Lisa came out as being trans, I found that very hard to deal with. After talking to her at length which was wonderful as it was so nice to be able to talk to someone who understood. It was about 6 months after Lisa came out that I realised that I am trans and that I have to do something about it. It'll sound strange but the fact that I am who I am "hit" me when I was having a shower to get ready for work one morning and it was then that I knew who was and what I have to do to get there.

I've always liked wearing women's clothes from a very young age and couldn't understand why and thought that I was some disgusting pervert with no right to live on God's earth. I didn't even know what a crossdresser was until I found this site.

2) What is the underlaying motivation to live full-time as a female, sexuality or identity, or both?

I'm Siobhán on the inside and Bruce on the outside and the two need to be aligned so that I can live the life that I should be living. For me, it is identity and not sexuality. I need to be who I really am on the inside. I got screwed over by Mother Nature when I was concieved and cannot and will not stay as I am currently as it's not right and not me.

What people need to realise is that you can change the outside but you cannot and will not change who you are on the inside. You are who you are on the inside and this will never change. This is not a quick fix and will not cure every problem that you have.

:hugs: Siobhán x

[shirley1]

i am going try try and retract what i said now because having had time think i do think people can suffer from gender euthoria (cant spell) basically they know somethings wrong with their life but they cant identify what it is - yes i thiink thats possible but i still think if you were happy in your male mode for years you would surely not be thinking of getting a sex change anytime soon - as a tv i would love to be a woman but could i change sex ?

[Cai]

i am going try try and retract what i said now because having had time think i do think people can suffer from gender euthoria (cant spell) basically they know somethings wrong with their life but they cant identify what it is - yes i thiink thats possible but i still think if you were happy in your male mode for years you would surely not be thinking of getting a sex change anytime soon - as a tv i would love to be a woman but could i change sex ?

Gender dysphoria - the exact opposite of euphoria.

Just because someone manages to be happy in the wrong gender, they're not really TS? I can't see that being true. It's possible to be happy because you have good things in your life, but have the wrong thing niggling at you the whole time. I had no idea I was trans until this spring, didn't even know such a thing as FtM trans existed until last year. To most outside eyes, I was happy as a girl. My realization was fairly sudden - I dressed up as a guy just to try it out, and never wanted to take those clothes off. It just kind of hit me. I can absolutely see how someone might, late in life, put on a dress and realize who they are, as that's almost exactly what happened to me.

[kerrianna]

You know Shirley, if you had asked me a few years ago whether I was happy as a male, I probably would have shrugged and said "I guess so."

But what I have discovered this past year or so is that I was NEVER happy. I had no idea what HAPPY was until I truly felt it.

That was like a revelation, an epiphany for me. It coursed through my blood, it sang in my bones. I asked myself what was this strange feeling I had and I realized I was beaming from ear to ear and felt light as a feather. I felt like kissing everyone.

There is nothing I can recall, from an early age, that comes close to how I feel now...happy and ALIVE.

That's when I knew I had finally picked the right door.

:happy:

[Valeria]

Just because someone manages to be happy in the wrong gender, they're not really TS? I can't see that being true. It's possible to be happy because you have good things in your life, but have the wrong thing niggling at you the whole time.
Before I went full time, I knew I was TS and knew I was female, and yet I still managed to cope pretty well with pretending to be male as necessary.

Actually, I think the people that are happiest post-transition are often the same people that were happiest pre-transition. Gender dysphoria can certainly impact how satisfied people are with life, but how generally agreeable, cheerful, and optimistic you are is mostly independent of gender issues.

I'm not saying that GID can't cause depression, but some of the people that struggle with severe depression pre-transition still suffer from depression afterwards. Transition may still have been right for them, but it doesn't necessarily cure everything. If you have other mental issues, they'll still be there.


I had no idea I was trans until this spring, didn't even know such a thing as FtM trans existed until last year. To most outside eyes, I was happy as a girl. My realization was fairly sudden - I dressed up as a guy just to try it out, and never wanted to take those clothes off. It just kind of hit me. I can absolutely see how someone might, late in life, put on a dress and realize who they are, as that's almost exactly what happened to me.
These stories always amaze me, but I have no doubt that they are true.

I used to be close friends with this one woman that transitioned, and while she wouldn't admit to this publicly, she told me that she initially tried taking estrogen on a whim. She didn't used to think she was a woman - at one time, she thought she was a gay man. But somehow, her life didn't seem quite right, and she decided to give transition a try and take hormones, just to see how well that worked for her. She eventually went full time, changed her name, had several surgeries, and sailed off into the sunset, happily living life as a woman.

I don't really understand that path, because mine was considerably different, but she seemed perfectly happy after transitioning. Even though she said it was just a whim, something (some sort of subconcious processing) must have prodded her to take the first steps she took towards transition.

Oh, and to tie this back to the original post, she never wore women's clothing until well after she'd already started transition and was taking estrogen.


There is nothing I can recall, from an early age, that comes close to how I feel now...happy and ALIVE.
This may sound contradictory with my saying earlier in this post that I coped pretty well with pretending to be a guy on occasion, but I'd agree with this as well.

I was part time for a long time (female socially and romantically, "male" in work environments), and I was reasonably happy back then. But when I went full time, and I was just able to relax and be myself all the time, life became far more vibrant and fulfilling for me. By comparison, my prior existence seems almost like a shadow life to me now.

[Stephenie S]

There is some wisdom in Kehleyr's post. Read it again.

Lovies,
Steph

[Sarahgurl371]

I have two questions for the group.....

1) at what point did you identify as a transsexual and not just as crossdresser?

and.....2) What is the underlaying motivation to live full-time as a female, sexuality or identity, or both?


1) I am now, at 36 and a year and a half in therapy, starting to identify as a transgendered person.

I have lived the past 20 years or so believing I had a fetish, so I was a crossdresser I thought. Like Lisa's post stated "when boredom overcame sensation", I started to look at things with a microscope. For so long I wouldn't look at things at all. I would engage in some activity, and immeadiately afterwards consume myself with guilt and shame, maybe to not look at things to closely. But I was never quite able to put it down.

I think what happened was that at around the time of puberty, my sexual impulses became a "primary" reason for CDing. I had been dressing since around the age of six. Mostly in undergarments I guess, and my motivation for doing so still eludes me today. Once my sexuality became intertwined with expressing myself physically as a girl, it was a runaway train. I wished I was a girl so badly during those times. I thought of it so often. And afterwards would try to ban it from my mind and thoughts. I put myself thru a living hell in an attempt at "correcting" this thing, purging it from my life. That hasn't worked either.

I guess that I have always felt something wasn't quite right with my life, it ain't bad, I should be happy. So when I started to look at things deeper, started to read some personal experiences of TS people (who "knew" this to be true) I found that I identified with alot of what they where saying. Not all, I have taken a different path than those who have "known" all there lives.

So I went to a therapist who has worked with other gender variant people and was extremely honest with him. The past couple of years have been almost devistatingly hard. I am still trying hard to be the man everyone wants me to be, but am asking myself if I should try?

The words I can use to describe the way I feel when I allow myself to dress are "floating, light, ahhhhh, taking a deep breath, happy, like hugging myself, almost awash in emotion."

So how do I differentiate these feelings from the ones that I felt when I thought I was merely CDing for a "sexual" thrill? I am not sure, they are different no doubt. For one, I don't want the experience to end. I find it very comfortable to be dressed, especially when any sexual urges have evaporated. Comfortable with the exception of the "male" (wishing they would just go away) body parts, or the ones that I perceive to be overtly male. I want to be able to go do "normal" things, go out of the house, mow the grass, go to the grocery store, visit people, just live.

I have noticed, really it was pointed out to me by my wife, that my physical mannerisms have changed. She says that I prance around like a girl while at home in "male" mode. Something that I am extremely conscious of "not doing" in social settings. I think I have just started to move like I want to. No acting, or trying, just moving in a comfortable way. When I think about myself at these times, my body feels cumbersome, huge, too large, I wish I where more petite, having a woman's body. It isn't like I am someplace else mentally, I am me, I just want my physical body to be different.

Maybe I am in denial. I still try so hard to "just be a crossdresser" as the question asked. My life would be so much easier if that is the case. It seems the more I talk about this, the more "evidence" comes out of my mouth that there is alot more to it than that. While it feels good to reach that level of honesty about it all, it is very frightening as well. I have fought so hard all my life to stop dressing, stop the thoughts, and they are becoming more and more unstopable. All I have ever wanted to be is "normal", and have felt as though I am not. So to acknowlege these things is very much the opposite of what I have tried to be. I am so afraid that I am misleading myself. I just want to be true, whatever that is.

I do believe that my mental patterns, emotions, are more aligined with the "female" spectrum. I think that sexuality has confused things for me. I think that all my life I have wanted to be a girl, but thought to myself that I must be a boy because of my physical body. So I have assumed that I am looking at things as a male. Hence the confusion. I have recently begun to ask myself to start looking at things as though I am female, and things seem to be making sense.

2) the underlying motivation to live as a girl is both Identity and Sexuality.

[AmberTG]

I have to agree with what Kerrianna said also. I didn't realise how unhappy I was before, until I started transition. I'm so much more at peace with myself now, even if I don't finish transition, it's still soo much better then it used to be!

[Nicki B]

Can I just say I hate the idea of "Transsexual v. Crossdresser" - IMHO, there's far too much of it about and way too much overlap in the people I personally know for it to be true that they're wholly separate 'animals'.

The concept that you would transition because of your sexuality is also something that you'll need to explain to me - why would that ever be a driver to transition??

[Bethany_Anne_Fae]

Some may not understand this, but I identify as both male and female... just not at the same time.

Confused yet? lol

Zara

[Valeria]

Can I just say I hate the idea of "Transsexual v. Crossdresser" - IMHO, there's far too much of it about and way too much overlap in the people I personally know for it to be true that they're wholly separate 'animals'.
And on the flip side, sometimes there is really no overlap at all. Lots of TS people don't crossdress at all before beginning transition (and once we transition, we don't view wearing clothing appropriate to our gender and social roles as crossdressing).

My crossgender feelings and explorations did not start with clothing (or makeup either), and they really weren't centered around them. There are a lot of experiences and feelings that are reported by crossdressers that are quite foreign to me.

I think that there are some people who are transgendered in a fashion similar to trans people, and who deal with those feelings by crossdressing. OTOH, I'm pretty certain that there are other people whose feelings are very different, and I'm far from convinced that there aren't multiple superficially-similar conditions involved. I think that it's entirely possible to be a crossdresser without the sorts of gender dysphoria and cross gender identity central to being transsexual, and likewise I think it's possible to be transsexual without the urges related to dressing and looking feminine.

The existence of people who have difficulty sorting through their feelings about gender does not necessarily imply that transsexuality and crossdressing are related manifestations of the same condition, differing only in magnitude.


The concept that you would transition because of your sexuality is also something that you'll need to explain to me - why would that ever be a driver to transition??
There is a theory (that I'm not very fond of) that some transitioners are gay men who are transitioning because it's more convenient and socially acceptable to be a woman than a man if you are feminine and sexually oriented towards men. There are a lot of things wrong with this theory (way too many for me to take the time to elaborate on), but that would be a hypothetical example.

In my own case, sexuality wasn't a factor at all in my living as a woman. It wasn't even the deciding factor in my having surgery (in fact, I'd still be happier with a female body even if I never had sex again).

Still, I identify strongly as lesbian (to the point where I've never had sex in a heterosexual male fashion), so I was arguably somewhat sexually dysfunctional before. My life partner likewise identifies strongly as lesbian and has no interest in penetrative sex, and this combination profoundly affected our sex life (though we were quite creative in working around our body issues). Anyway, I'd be lying if I didn't say that genital surgery was helpful in improving our sex life (for some reason, some people assume that only the sex lives of straight trans people will improve from having surgery, but that's not necessarily true).

But mostly, I think the questioner is confused. Sexuality can often be a reason (one of many) for wanting surgery, but it's generally not a motivation to live as a woman (or man) in the first place.

[melissaK]

I have two questions for the group.....

1) at what point did you identify as a transsexual and not just as crossdresser? ]

Ummm. 13? Heard about Christine Jorgenson. Knew that was me. Didn't kinow there was a group called CDers. Later when I learned there were supposedly two camps, I worried the issue like a dog with a bone. Tried just regular cross dressing. I always wanted more. Decided I was right at 13 because it takes all I've got not to go live in the opoosite gender role.


[/QUOTE]
2) What is the underlaying motivation to live full-time as a female, sexuality or identity, or both? [You meant live "as other than your birth sex" so as not to offend mtf or ftm] [/QUOTE]

I don't live as other than my birth sex. It takes everything I've got not to, and I've paid a price with my mental health. Rarely does an hour pass where I don't think of it. I can't hold the line anylonger so, a year ago I've moved slowly into a middle ground.

What motivates me? An irresistible desire within me. Kind like Close Enounters where the people who were contacted HAD to go to the alien landing site. :heehee:

hugs,
'lissa

[DanielMacBride]

That was like a revelation, an epiphany for me. It coursed through my blood, it sang in my bones. I asked myself what was this strange feeling I had and I realized I was beaming from ear to ear and felt light as a feather. I felt like kissing everyone.

I can TOTALLY relate to this - unlike some others I did not know from an early age that I am male, but I DID have a constant feeling which I define as being like I was walking through a Dali painting and being the only one who KNEW it was a Dali painting. I always knew *something* was wrong with my life but until August of this year I had NO idea what it was.

My exploration of gender started last year when I realised after some deep thought (and therapy LOL) that I was not bisexual at all, but lesbian. For a little while this was great because I thought I had figured it all out - but then the nagging doubt surfaced again and life was back to being a Dali painting, and it was only after talking to a MtF friend and identifying with her feelings as she struggled to accept her gender, that I realised what it could be (I had NO idea that FtMs even existed up to that point!).

So I researched on the net and it was in August of this year that I told my therapist that I am male (although it took me a few weeks from July to actually decide where my gender sits, before I did I slid from being very femme, to gradually more masculine as I knew I was not entirely female but just not how male I was!) I also made possibly the smartest decision I have ever made in my entire life at that point - the day I realised I am trans, I also decided to go fulltime and did exactly that, that same day. And I have never regretted it for a second.

So not everyone knows from when they are small, and not all of us ever identify as crossdressers either. I am also one of those who had suffered severe clinical depression for over 20yrs before I came out as male, and then literally the instant I realised I am trans, the depression lifted and has been completely gone ever since (I was never able to take medication because I am hypersensitive to all psych meds, and had been constantly depressed for that long, even my best days were just mediocre and "blah"). But now I have been well and happy for 5 months and I KNOW I am on the right road and I have to say, life ROCKS :D

Daniel

[Stephenie S]

I am one for whom dressing holds absolutely no sexual connotation. If it did, I would be in deep trouble as I "dress" 24/7. For me, as for any other woman, clothes are a way to keep warm and to cover my body while trying to look presentable.

I can remember a time when putting on feminine undergarments DID provide a sexual rush, but it was years ago when I was very young. Actually, almost anything provided a sexual rush back then. I was probably LOADED with raging hormones.

Wearing women's clothing is, for me, only a signal to the world to help others recognize who and what I am. I want people to say, "Oh, here comes a woman", when they see me, so I wear clothing appropriate to my gender. This can be pretty boring when I am mowing the lawn, or working around the house. Women's jeans and work shirts can sometimes be indistingishable from men's jeans and work shirts. A bit lighter perhaps, and with some decoration at times, but pants and tops are pants and tops.

I recognize that this phenomenon exists, but I cannot for the life of me imagine wanting to transition because women's clothing provided a sexual outlet. Why bother at all? And my goodness, however would you deal with yourself every morning as you got dressed?

Lovies,
Stephenie

[Dania]

The gambit of responses here has run to a number of places that I can identify so strongly with, and I can see a bit of my story in almost every one.

I suppose I should answer the question posed though :). I think I first felt TG feelings when I was about 5 or 6 and started to feel so excluded and so out of place in a mans world. Everything that I saw around me, my interests, my desires (many of which were then repressed and not acted upon) were more aligned with that of a female. I turned to my writing and computer programming to help me get through it. At that young age, I had the epiphany that something was wrong.

I started dressing when I was 8 or 9 years old, and the feeling that I got was indescribable. It felt as if that longing was fulfilled, but I still felt as if things weren't going right. I knew something, even in a dress (and a really cute one at that, I could fit into a size 6 then *sigh*) I knew that my life wasn't complete. At that time the sexual feelings that I'd later experience weren't in the mix, so it was a pure feeling, a real feeling of loss. Not because of the clothing though.. I caught a fleeting glimpse, if only for a moment, of aligning my deepest (and typically repressed) feelings with my outward presentation.

I found myself soon depressed when not dressed, and that brings us to present day. The hell of puberty hit (and I'm only 21, so still going through it). Having to keep a secret through that time limits ones options, and dressing became somewhat of a sexual experience. This made me question my very assumption that it wasn't just the clothes. So, here I am. Saddled with the very same question I answered 12 years prior. And still, without an answer. Sometimes in my quietest of moments, walking outside at night I try to ask myself, "Am I TS, am I a CD?"

I won't lie, the sexual part confuses the hell out of me. I hate the anatomy I have, and I really don't enjoy it being there. I guess that is more of a textbook definition of a TS then anything.

I wonder if realization is just a way of delaying being honest with yourself, that is to say, putting yourself in the bin of TS, CD, TV, TG, etc limits your options. I've always said, whenever you have a real question to ask of yourself find a quiet moment. A moment in which all background noise is tuned out, and you can ask yourself a real question. Just ask. The answer that you get doesn't have to fit in a label, a bin, it is just who you are.

As for question 2, I think that because I am a male bodied female it has influenced every part of my development. It has shaped who I am as an individual, and my underlying motivation to live full time (if I decide to go that route) is to be myself. It's identity, it's sexual, it's both. It's each component wrapped up and intertwined in such a way that it is impossible to untangle.

In short, I am Dania, I have been and will always be a girl. There is nothing I'd ever do to change that. Everyone else sees me as a man, and that is something I can change. Problem? Yes. Inner conflict and turmoil? Undoubtedly. Something that has created the person I am and the person I am becoming, in all aspects of life? Yup! :)

[melissaK]

Can I just say I hate the idea of "Transsexual v. Crossdresser" - IMHO, there's far too much of it about and way too much overlap in the people I personally know for it to be true that they're wholly separate 'animals'.


I second that opinion.

hugs,
'lissa

[CaptLex]

CDers have a male gender identity. People born transsexual (MtF) have a female gender identity.

Being female is a fantasy to CDers.

Being female is a fact of life for people born transsexual (MtF).
It's not always so black-and-white, Jane. Some people are in-betweeners, neither exclusively male nor exclusively female - not really CDers, and not totally TS either. For some people, identifying as the gender opposite to what their body looks like (even partially) is not a fantasy - it's part of their identity. Just another stop on the TG spectrum, but not one to be dismissed.


Those fundamental differences make me wonder why I hang out here at all because the site name says it all. I don't belong. Even in what is supposed to be the section for people born transsexual the place is dominated by people who don't share my experience, that weren't born transsexual. I know a couple others here that do share my history, but I can count them on one hand. One stays for the intellectual challenge of debate. Others stay out of obligation. To them I say:

It's not worth it, move on with your life. This place is an anchor to your past. You found your way out of the maze and so will others like us who come after us. Just like you left your Mom and Dad, you need to move on to the next phase of your life/development.
You should do whatever is right for you, of course. Hang out here, don't hang out here. If you want to be here, that's cool. If you feel that you've moved on, then good luck to you. However, you shouldn't tell others whether it's their time to go - that's up to each individual to decide. :Peace:

[Valeria]

I know a couple others here that do share my history, but I can count them on one hand. One stays for the intellectual challenge of debate. Others stay out of obligation.
I suspect I'm the one that you think "stays for the intellectual challenge of debate", but if all I wanted to do was debate feminist, gender, and queer theories, I'd go to forums where such topics are more popular subjects. That's not why I'm here.

It is true that I enjoy exploring those subjects, and that might be part of why I'm still a mod at a certain forum for younger transitioners (where there are a lot of people who like discussing those types of topics).

But mainly, I want to help people. I've spent years learning about hormones, surgery, voice therapy, and other topics. I've spent years gaining confidence in and understanding about my gender and my identity (although on some levels, those explorations remain ongoing projects). There were wise women that hung around long enough to give me clues at times, and I feel inclined to do the same for a while.

It's true that I find this place frustrating at times, and I think that 90% of what I post just gets ignored, but I think I'm occasionally useful to some people. Granted, other forums (ones that contain people that are mostly certain they want to transition) have more people that I have a lot in common with. The forum where I mostly post has far more people of similar age and worldview to me. But there are a lot of people here still in the "questioning" phase of their existence, and arguably they are the people that need voices of experience most of all.

My participation here is subject to the demands of baby, school, and life partner, but time permitting, that's why I'm here.

[GypsyKaren]

I hate to be off topic, but I'm here because I want to be here. Yes it's frustrating at times, but all it takes is one thank you from someone I've helped in some small way to keep me going, but if someone's waiting for a pat on the back, gather up a bunch of friends and get a game of Tag going, I for one have never found them necessary.

Karen Starlene :star:

[Nicki B]

And on the flip side, sometimes there is really no overlap at all. Lots of TS people don't crossdress at all before beginning transition (and once we transition, we don't view wearing clothing appropriate to our gender and social roles as crossdressing).

My crossgender feelings and explorations did not start with clothing (or makeup either), and they really weren't centered around them. There are a lot of experiences and feelings that are reported by crossdressers that are quite foreign to me.

I think that there are some people who are transgendered in a fashion similar to trans people, and who deal with those feelings by crossdressing. OTOH, I'm pretty certain that there are other people whose feelings are very different, and I'm far from convinced that there aren't multiple superficially-similar conditions involved. I think that it's entirely possible to be a crossdresser without the sorts of gender dysphoria and cross gender identity central to being transsexual, and likewise I think it's possible to be transsexual without the urges related to dressing and looking feminine.

The existence of people who have difficulty sorting through their feelings about gender does not necessarily imply that transsexuality and crossdressing are related manifestations of the same condition, differing only in magnitude.

Kehley, you have your view, from where you sit? :)

My perspective comes from, as Lex points out, one of those sitting in the middle, and knowing personally a large number of trans people (I mod a UK-based forum of some 5,000 and have met many of those people in person).

Some of us transition, some of us don't, but we all share share some form of dysphoria (and as I've said before, I see different types of dysphoria evident). We are that overlap? :idontknow:


There is a theory (that I'm not very fond of) that some transitioners are gay men who are transitioning because it's more convenient and socially acceptable to be a woman than a man if you are feminine and sexually oriented towards men. There are a lot of things wrong with this theory (way too many for me to take the time to elaborate on), but that would be a hypothetical example.

I'm well aware of it. The first and biggest obstacle is that gay guys don't go for people who look like women, they go for men who look like men? :heehee:



I am one for whom dressing holds absolutely no sexual connotation.

Steph, forgive me, but it sounds like maybe you protesteth a bit too much - ask yourself, are you perhaps just trying to distance yourself?

Of course, you're saying what any other woman might say - except other women do sometimes dress to make themselves feel sexy, they do sometimes dress up to have sex? Like you also say, most of us are sexual animals, our sexuality is wrapped around most of what we do.. :hmmm:


I recognize that this phenomenon exists, but I cannot for the life of me imagine wanting to transition because women's clothing provided a sexual outlet. Why bother at all? And my goodness, however would you deal with yourself every morning as you got dressed?

Has anyone ever transitioned, just for the sexual outlet? I can't believe it - you know just how hard it is... :strugglin


The key thing is, we are all different. But we are all trans...

[Stephenie S]

Nicki,

Nope, I don't use clothes for a turn on. I guess you may be correct when you say some women DO, but I ain't one of 'em. As I said, I can remember a time when I WAS, but it was long ago and in a different universe. Do I love to shop? Yup. Do I love new clothes? Yup. Do I like dressing up to go out? You bet! But is it a sexual turnon? Not at all.

Men don't need all that "sexy" stuff that the pornography industry pushes. Most men I know are turned on all the time (when young) and by anything in a skirt (when older). I wear ordinary, plain, normal clothes. Boring white underwear and mostly jeans and warm (now that it's winter) tops. I am a woman of a "certain age". Can you get any less sexy? Yet I am flirted with regularly. I am in a commited, monogamous relationship, but were I not, I would have no lack of companionship of the male persuasion. I don't NEED sexual response from my clothes and I don't expect or get it.

JMHO

Stephie

[melissaK]

This thread has taken an interesting turn, and I have enjoyed everyone's opinions. I like that long time CD's/TS stick around and moderate or chime in, or scold, or debate. I like that members stay and share their journey and their own changing insights. It is all meaningful to me, anyway.

I have been years in a deep denial, in a very deep closet. It is taking me a long time to get out without falling back in. The fact others stay here for years is a big help. An intense fear of being alone goes away when the online network remains constant.

If I forget to say it, thanks.

hugs,
'lissa

[helenr]

I wonder if there is a place in this analysis/discussion for a 'neutral'? I crossdress underneath daily, it doesn't carry any sexual trappings any more. I don't have any interest, however, in spending hours in front of a mirror-makeup,etc. I am too busy daytime working on vintage cars so my nails aren't pretty,etc. I don't view myself as a male, know I could never be a real female. I am attracted to females, but know women have little use for any thing 'trans' so I am reconciled to be an 'it' or a 'neutral' . Accepting this does provide a sense of relief. I truly think that there as as many different definitions of what each of us is so as to make any generalizations pointless.It is important, however, for all of us to support others at the website since I am sure we would be viewed(by outsiders) as weirdos-that would be the only generalization that would group us all!

[Sejd]

Little boxes! what does it matter what we call ourselves? We are what we are and what we project into this world. We are what we love and what we fail to love. I see different needs from all kind of different people. I think this label game is way old and useless. At the same time - this wonderful paradox - it is important in political measures. How do we define ourselves to gain political justice? that's a hard one. Oh, it would be so nice if it was all just pre-packaged and all thought out. The truth is, we are all accountable for our own unique sexuality. Good luck finding this one out everyone!
hugs
Sejd:hugs:

[chrissietoo]

1) at what point did you identify as a transsexual and not just as crossdresser?

well, possibly today, when I came to this forum for the first time. Hi, everybody!

So many things you have said here have hit home. Even so, I step over here gingerly, unsure of myself or where I might be going....

When I was eight, I asked my mom if I could be a girl for Halloween. It was not about the costume, it was about the feeling. And it felt, well...just right. I was very happy, and calm. My mom took photographs, and the look on my face is positively serene. I felt like me.

As was expected of me, I went on learning to be a boy, and grew up able to pretend at doing man-things. My feelings and eyes on the world were always feminine, though, indeed my friends have always overwhelmingly been female. Many girlfriends came, stayed a while, and then went off with guys who would marry them and give them children. They might love me, but something was missing with me, something was different.

I had a girlfriend about five years ago, and I began to wear her clothes in secret. Not for sex, but because I felt calm and warm. I told her, and we became girlfriends. We stopped having intercourse; we laughed and kissed and took warm baths together. I thought this was because I was a cross-dresser.

I checked the net, visited sites, dressed, chatted and all the rest, always looking for something that was missing. But really, how could I be a cd? I'm not really into clothes! And dressing for me isn't sexual, I just feel warm and right when I do. So many times I felt like an impostor amongst cd's, just as I had felt I was pretending to be a man.

:happy:Yesterday, I spent in the office, dressed as Chrissie. The clothes didn't matter, the feeling was wonderful. This morning, one of the girls came to the office and, well, we sat and talked as two girls for an hour. It was not a fantasy, but a feeling. She told me she really had always considered me a girl, and so had her friends. Funny, because I don't "act" like a woman. I was very happy.

Then I logged on, and looked at the CD forum. But I felt like I was looking for something I wasn't going to find there. I scrolled down, and clicked on "transgender", and so here I am. Perhaps I'm an impostor here, too, a weekend woman, Trans-Lite. I don't know, but I think it is more.

I won't say I'm not confused, or VERY cautious. I didn't wake up one morning, to suddenly realize that I'm a woman. Nor did I feel that something was wrong, that I got the wrong body. But I have, slowly and gradually, come to realize that I have always been more woman than man.
Thanks for being here. :hugs:

Chrissie Taylor :blushing:

[AmberTG]

Hi Chrissie, I'm glad you found something that you can relate to in the TG section. Most of us had lots of questions about ourselves when we first came here, that's quite normal. This place tends to point us in a general direction and help us sort out our feelings. Knowing who you are and where you want to go with it takes some time, but eventually it will become clear to you who you really are and what you want to do about it. There's a lot of good information in this section, I hope it's useful to you!

[Jena11]

1) at what point did you identify as a transsexual and not just as crossdresser?

I new from my earliest memories that I wanted to be a girl. It just took me many years to learn and open those feeling up.

2) What is the underlaying motivation to live full-time as a female, sexuality or identity, or both?

for me both, I really only see myself as female and I only want to be with women. The harded part of this was that when I was young and did not know much, I was very fearful of being gay and I did not want to be with a man so how could I be a woman.

[Alex R]

Some of us transition, some of us don't, but we all share share some form of dysphoria (and as I've said before, I see different types of dysphoria evident). We are that overlap?

I feel that's spot on. Let me quote Dr. Carl Bushing from TransGenderCare.com (http://www.transgendercare.com/guidance/what_is_gender.htm):


.... during my work with gender folk I have come to the belief that there is only one cause, one conflict, one condition — but there are many reactions and adjustments to it. I have gradually come to the conclusion that one's coming to terms with the conflict between one's knowledge of their true gender and one's need to be "normal" fosters the same conflict in all gender folk. Because a child's greatest desire is to be normal (like everybody else), the great majority of transgendered individuals create an artificial self which meets this goal. They are often so successful at this that they not only fool everyone else but themselves as well — at least part of the time, in some way....

That really rings true for me. Some of the previous contributors said they couldn't believe how some folk don't realise they are TG / TS until late on in life. Well that's what exactly happened to me. After years of considering myself as enjoying very mild and infrequent needs to crossdress, it wasn't until my late forties, two years ago, that I started to suspect it was something a bit more. At that point I, for the first time, got the opportunity to dress fully. This new experience then made me re-assess my previous conclusions and do something that went totally against the grain of my male persona; visit a therapist.

These sessions along with much reading about others in a similar situation made me realise I am TG, who know perhaps even TS.

So yes, I feel CDing can be a precursor to TSism and it doesn't lose any authenticity or credibility just because it happens late in life.

[Anna the Dub]

1) at what point did you identify as a transsexual and not just as crossdresser?

I started crossdressing as a child. I always knew I was different from other boys, but did my utmost to hide my feelings and to fit in, as all kids do really. Did I want to be a girl? Absolutely. But it was just a pipe dream to me, something just to wish for but never really possible. On into my 20's I left my home country (Ireland) because I just had to get away from everyone, so I moved to England. I pretty much crossdressed all the time in my flat as I spent all my time alone. As time went on and I got more and more depressed, I became very friendly with a female work colleague. Nothing sexual (I don't really have any sexual feelings for women or men) but we became very, very close. We were out on the town one night about 3 years after we became close, and we had had a few drinks. She opened up to me and said that she was bisexual, she was pretty much messed up about it at that time. We had a long chat, and I thought that it was now or never. So I told her I crossdressed. She was ok about it, just said give her a day to get her head round it. I was in misery, of course. However, next day we met up and immediately she started planning shopping expeditions and how to make me look as good as possible (I love her to bits still). I dressed quite a few times with her and we talked and talked. Now that someone knew, and I wasn't the freak I had always believed myself to be, I really started thinking about it all and my future. I knew then that the clothes didn't matter, it was how I felt inside. This is when I knew for certain.

2) What is the underlaying motivation to live full-time as a female, sexuality or identity, or both?

I am not living full time yet, but I will. My motivation is identity. It is who I am. I am not male. I may have been born with a male anatomy, but that is only the outside. God knows, I tried to be one, but struggled constantly. I can act the part pretty well, so well that everyone will believe it, but I am only pretending. When I visit my family, I have to act male as, although they all know about my hormone treatment, they pretend that it doesn't exist. As I don't live in Ireland anymore, I can easily slip back into my male persona when I need to when on a short visit home (although it does leave a sour taste in my mouth).

[Rachel_740]

I have two questions for the group.....

1) at what point did you identify as a transsexual and not just as crossdresser?

I've identified as female from the age of around 6/7 years old. Transexual is just a label and I have never felt it applies to me.


2) What is the underlaying motivation to live full-time as a female, sexuality or identity, or both?

I'm a woman!!!!!!!!

That said, I tried for most of my life to live 'as was expected of me', but I eventually had to give up and be myself.

Rach
xxx

[AmandaM]

It's not always so black-and-white, Jane. Some people are in-betweeners, neither exclusively male nor exclusively female - not really CDers, and not totally TS either. For some people, identifying as the gender opposite to what their body looks like (even partially) is not a fantasy - it's part of their identity. Just another stop on the TG spectrum, but not one to be dismissed.

Exacta-mundo, Mon Capitan! If I could decide I was just a transvestite, or just a transsexual, I'd be a lot happier. I think the in-betweeners have it worse than someone who knows.

[Bobby Anne]

Anthony - My point is that there is a clinical difference between a transsexual and a crossdresser. I was not trying to raise your temper. A crossdresser is someone who enjoys dressing up as a member of the opposite sex. A transsexual is someone who wished to live full-time as a member of the opposite sex and ultimately undergo sexual reassignment surgury. At least that is my understanding of it. What is your understanding of the difference?

erin

They all secretly or not want to be girls.
I think they are all DRAG QUEENS.

[CaptLex]

They all secretly or not want to be girls.
I think they are all DRAG QUEENS.
wha? :confused:

[Sharon]

They all secretly or not want to be girls.
I think they are all DRAG QUEENS.


wha? :confused:

Yeah -- do you wish to clarify?

[UASIANGAL]

oh I am still confused with the term Transexual or Transsexual. Clinically, it suppose to mean someone who has gone through a sex change operation but it seems some many who has not - calls themselves transexuals here. I'm I just to naive to go by the dictionary's definition?

I am a CD and a transvestite as far as I know! And that has no bear if I was gay or not.

[azalea]

Those who have not gone through a sex change operation can still be transexual - they are "pre-op" or "non-op" transexual. I like to use the term transgender or just trans, though.

When did I stop considering myself a crossdresser and start considering myself trans? When I found out that it existed. Before I researched this kind of stuff, I always thought all people that wore clothes opposite their physical sex did so because they felt that their gender was opposite their physical sex.

[kerrianna]

It's a little confusing because Transexual has the word 'sexual' in it, but it has nothing to do with one's sexuality at all.

A transexual person can have pretty much any sexual orientation.

The main distinction of the term is explained in a lot of places on the net, including here I think....help, Karen or Sharon. :p

Really what it means, at least to me, is someone who identifies pretty much entirely with the opposite of their biologically assigned sex. You don't have to actually want to or carry out transition, although most TS people certainly consider it seriously. Like I said, sexual orientation is a secondary thing. It's not even 'wanting' to be the opposite sex, although it can feel like that....it is BEING the opposite sex, in some form or another, usually quite deeply...which makes us want to present to the world as such.

Being transgendered can be all or part of the above description.

At least that's my take on it. :happy:

[Kate Simmons]

Well that's a pretty good "take' on it I must say Kez. Where you been girl? Seems like you missed all the "fun" we've had here lately, debunking steroetypes, etc. Anyway, on the "biologically assigned" thingy. What I've noticed is that many of us take that with a grain of salt and really tell them where to put it. Biology be damned, nature it seems doesn't always know everything and who and what we are is nonetheless determined by--you guessed it--us! Some of us have no need to change the "packaging", some of us do. The most important thing is for US to know who we are and go with it.

We are the "final operator" and we are the final determiner of our final disposition. In that respect, taking ownership is essential. Once we do that, we will no longer be scattered thither and yon by the thinking and opinions of others. We are the best expert when it comes to being ourself and we know what is best for us. That is an unshakable fact. Savvy?

[kerrianna]

The most important thing is for US to know who we are and go with it.
We are the best expert when it comes to being ourself and we know what is best for us. That is an unshakable fact. Savvy?

Ha ha Sal, I saw some of the 'debunking' threads just now and almost jumped in... but it's kind of like chasing your tail.

As usual, kiddo, you said it best.

You're really cool... anyone ever tell you that? :hugs::love:

I see Lex has gotten to you too. :D

[Katie Ashe]

Well from age 4 to 29 I was refered to as a sissy, and loved to secretly wear girly things. At age 29 I found the term Transexual, and was told by my doc your not a crossdresser. What drives me, tough... Severe depression for pretended to be a man, I don't like any thing related to men mostly, sexually I'm Lesbian and will never be with a guy. I have a compulsive eating disorder. I am a failed perfectionist. I am rejected by society and served in the USAF for 10 years, college for 6+ and yet deliver fast food for a living because my kind is not wanted here. What drives me is mostly something my grandfather said to me before he died. I'm tired of be whom THEY expect me to be. I like pink and my fav color is aqua not blue, I like nylons and lace, I like heels not flats, I like ladies not men, in a binary world I simply fit in much better as :gorgeous: girl

[Cai]

Exacta-mundo, Mon Capitan! If I could decide I was just a transvestite, or just a transsexual, I'd be a lot happier. I think the in-betweeners have it worse than someone who knows.

I agree. It's a lot harder for those who don't have a specific gender identity.

I always define transsexual as being born into a body of a "different" gender than the physical sex (instead of opposite), just because I've run into enough in-betweeners. Not everyone wants to be completely male or completely female.

[StephanieC]

Having ready the other responses to this question, I felt perhaps I was in the wrong room. I feel really old and perhaps misplaced.

I'm not one of those people who has "always known something was wrong". I just remember dressing when I was in 7th grade (went to school with my Mom's undergarments). Used to snatch discards from the apartment laundry room during my early 20s. And only recently have dressed "in the closet". Does that make me a CD?

I've spent decades doing what I thought I was supposed to do. Learning, working, helping others, raising children. I never had much time to determine whether I was in the right skin. Was I happy? Never thought about it. I do know I don't have many pictures of me smiling but maybe I'm just grumpy.

I can say that I have a much better rapport with the girls at work than most of the guys. And I see them more as peers than something sexual.

I see gender and sexuality as different aspects. I was raised at a time when Moms stayed at home and Dads went to work. But as my Mom got older, it was clear she was growing and my Dad was not. Once he retired, his growth pretty much stopped and he's been reliving his past. But my Mom continues to grow and change.

I don't think we are every totally one thing or another. I happen to be in a phase where I don't like hairy legs but I'm not sure that means I definitely want to be a female.

I liked KerriAnn's response. When I saw her response, that really resounded with me

...Put me down for 'not sure'