The Continuum

[Mirani]

I was a lurker here for a while before "joining" properly. So I have read many posts and learnt a lot about the "condition" and myself.

One of the most impactive areas has been that we are so very different in many areas and have similarities too. I never before understood what a vast range of people that we are. To call me a crossdresser says nothig at all other than I like to crossdress.

On the CD - TS continuum there are just so many places to stand. And then, I realise I am not standing still ... I have shifted. (OR did I just not know where to stand?).

For me, self-awareness is important. I realise that some people are just happy to "be" - but I want to know why and where too.

Since Amanda came into my life in a significant way I have relaxed into my crossdressing in a BIG way. I now dress every evening and all weekends. This is probably a 100% or more increase. I am just happy and content as Mirani (or Mira as I have now become) and feel it to be my natural place rather than my "special" place.

As I am happy that is what matters. But I find myself asking "who am I?" Am I now Mira who has to be Steve for work? I used to be Steve who took opportunities to be Mirani when he could and careful to only go to CD friendly places.

Am I really more TG than CD? Does it matter?
I certainly dont want gender reassignment - (I like the way my bits work:)), but .. I want to be recognised as female when I am out and relate as Mira at home.

I am sharing this as I have found posts by others have helped me to understand myself. This MAY assist someone else who is in a similar place, or may assist an S.O. who wonders what goes on in our minds at times.

I know Amanda will read this too.

[kay_jessica]

Firstly, Mirani, I must say I have been following your other thread with tremendous admiration. You (and Amanda) have come a long way in a relatively short space of time. Many will envy what you have. It is precious and wonderful.



I never before understood what a vast range of people that we are. To call me a crossdresser says nothig at all other than I like to crossdress.

This is the cunumdrum of the spectrum. On the one hand you have the occasional panty wearer and at the other extreme you have full post op 24/7 TS. Though, I find most TS either pre op or post op tend to shy away from the term cross dressers as we no longer we feel that we are crossdressing. After all we identify as women so we can't cross dress as women. If anything, the times i have to present as male (i.e. at work) I feel I'm reverse crossdressing back to male.



On the CD - TS continuum there are just so many places to stand. And then, I realise I am not standing still ... I have shifted. (OR did I just not know where to stand?).


As you have become to accept yourself as Miani you have become more aware your true feellings. I do not know if one moves along the continuum or if you are there already but not knowing where there is. I think and this is just me, that our place on the continuum is set and our journey to find that place is our discovery of ourselves. Once you accept that CDing is not bad or something to be hidden, then the journey of discovery has begun. You can no longer hold back, the more you discover about your self more you want to discover.



For me, self-awareness is important. I realise that some people are just happy to "be" - but I want to know why and where too.


I'm not sure that knowing the why is ever going to be possible. There are many theories, many quite simply ludicrous, on why we are, but to be honest, does it really matter. OK so perhaps you were exposed to a little to much oestrogen whiles still in the womb or perhaps you were forced to wear your sister cast offs whiles still in the pram. Who knows. As to where to. I guess you will only know that when you get there.



Since Amanda came into my life in a significant way I have relaxed into my crossdressing in a BIG way. I now dress every evening and all weekends. This is probably a 100% or more increase. I am just happy and content as Mirani (or Mira as I have now become) and feel it to be my natural place rather than my "special" place.


To have some one so acepting in your life is so so very precious. I truly admire Amanda for her trust and loyalty to you. You are not crossdressing any more you are dressing as your true self.



As I am happy that is what matters. But I find myself asking "who am I?" Am I now Mira who has to be Steve for work? I used to be Steve who took opportunities to be Mirani when he could and careful to only go to CD friendly places.


You are exactly where I am accept I know I am Kay and I am TS. I am not a crossdressers.



Am I really more TG than CD? Does it matter?
I certainly dont want gender reassignment - (I like the way my bits work:)), but .. I want to be recognised as female when I
am out and relate as Mira at home.


You are TS, how far you go down the road is as far as you need to to be 100% you. And no it does not matter. What matters is that you do not lie to your self as that only leads to misery. If you try to deny something then it will eat at you until it drives you crazy or you give in.



I am sharing this as I have found posts by others have helped me to understand myself. This MAY assist someone else who is in a similar place, or may assist an S.O. who wonders what goes on in our minds at times.


I did not find the web resource until I was well down the road to discovery. Thus I suppose my journey has been some what longer than it need to have been. The existence of this and other forums is a god send to those now starting out on this journey.



I know Amanda will read this too.

Amanda, you are so special I hope to be able to meet both you and Mirani and give you both a big hug.


Hugs



Kay

[Carin]

Hi Mirani,

I posted a very similar thread, What does it mean to be on "Gender Spectrum" (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65574) some months ago.

IMHO so much of our energy as a 'private' crossdresser is spent on keeping it private. So much so that we prevent ourselves for really exploring ourselves. There is too much at stake. We just explore what we can get away with. If we suddenly find ourselves free to totally immerse and express ourselves as much as we want, as is your case (was mine too for a while) we can so easily become overwhelmed with that self exploration. It takes time to figure out the bits and pieces. Self awareness is very important to me too. I don't like being in a fog, pink or otherwise. Once you have the freedom, it still takes time to find your center. It is just more fun.

I mentioned on two occasions recently that my 'condition' is an accident of birth. Both my SO and my therapist - separate occasions - thought I meant the accident was being a female born to a male body. I corrected them. The accident was being transgendered born to a male body. I can't explain it very well. A male with an overdose of femininity, part male and part female in my head (or maybe from the waist up), whatever ... . It is my sense of being (credits to MJ for the expression (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1120284&postcount=22)). It is so difficult to define for ourselves, let alone explaining to those around us that care. In general TG covers the CD-TS spectrum. But for me personally being TG is a much narrower window somewhere in the middle that I am still trying to understand - just for my own peace of mind.

My desire to have breasts challenges me. Instinct tells me that is part of my comfort zone, my sense of being, yet it is different from wanting to be a woman. Looking at it from the outside it is contradictory. Inside it just feels right. I think the 'private' TGer rarely gets a chance to figure it out. Can you really tell what feels right until you have experienced it consistently for a week, two weeks, a month, as required... With freedom to explore you can adjust the knobs, a little more of this, a little less of that, take time to see what works. Is it stagnant, a migration, an oscillation? I have more questions that answers.

By all means, if you have the space to do so, enjoy the ride of discovery.

My very best wishes for fun and for life's enjoyment to you and to Amanda.

[Nicole Erin]

Well yeah of course there is a huge spectrum of who we are.
I have seen everything from rich men to homeless men who CD. So social class means nothing.

There are CD's of EVERY age, weight, height...

There are some who are obsessed with it 24/7 and then there are ones like me who make time for it but it is not everything.

Every fashion sense, every attitude every "out"ness....

So it seems that those who hate CD's are silly cause it is hating just ONE aspect of the whole person.

So anyways, yeah...

[Bethany_Anne_Fae]

So it seems that those who hate CD's are silly cause it is hating just ONE aspect of the whole person.

So anyways, yeah...

I Love you for this response!

*hugs*

Zara

[Genifer Teal]

It reminds me of when I first let my hair grow. In the past getting ready was not complete until I put on the wig. That is when I could look in the mirror and only see Genifer. With real hair, it is like I always have the wig on. Now the question becomes when am I NOT Genifer. There is a great blurring of the lines. I look more like myself both ways. Breast forms and clothes are the main differences and that is not much.

It really made me think where this is going. How far will I take it. At some point I gave up being concerned. I am ok with who I am right now and that is all that matters. It is easy to say I'd love to be in your situation. Who knows, I might feel like you do, or not want to put on makeup EVERY day. I couldn't know unless I was there. It does sound like fun.

I joined my first CD support groupd over 10 years ago hoping to learn why I do this. I still don't know, other than I like it. I just had to stop being so concerned and enjoy it. I hope you do that same and enjoy your present situation for all it is worth. May it last forever.

Hugs - Genifer

[vivianann]

what you posted is right on for how I see myself, you are very lucky to have a supportive S.O. as you get older you will find that your position of where you are in the tg thought process does move abit, some more so than others.

[ColleenCD]

Mirani,

Glad to see a new posting update. Your saga has been captivating to read. Since your story is ongoing, you will find your comfort level now, but it will naturally change as Mirani becomes more present in everyday life. (The continuum)

Your patients and intelligence will help you determine Mirani's place in your life where you are most comfortable.

As a CD'er beyond my silver anniversary in marraige, I would offer this advice: Cherish the support given by Amanda. Show her your appreciation early and often.

Lastly, thank you for sharing and Merry Christmas!

Colleen

[Angie G]

I totally love being Angie it put me in a good place at work or in other public places and on weekend for my wife I'm Ed my wife still needs to know I a man and that is OK as I love har And what makes her happy make me happy.
So I'm happy being both of me And I get totaly enough time as time as Angie and never ask myself who am I :hugs:
Angie

[charllote34]

It sounds like you are becoming the person that you really want to be rather than pretending to , good on ya girl xxx:hugs:

[Amanda FAB]

The continuum ....... You can stand anywhere you like sweetheart :)

It is the core of a persons spirit that matters ,, kindness, generosity, warmth and a spirit of intrinsic goodness.

But you do look hot in your heels ;)

"in vino veritas"

[Carla Mel]

I don't think there is continuum, but two diferent roads.
I know my road: it has always been clear to me forever that I could never give up my masculine part. So I consider myself a "quantic" crossdresser or masculine or feminine. My road has been in improving and enjoying my feminity when I'm a girl, my masculinity when I'm a boy. And keeping both worlds separate.
I have seen another road for several friends ending (I should say begining) with SRS. But before achieving this goal there is a road where the masculine is little by little eliminated. Can be the hair, can be empting the closet of masculine clothes, or changing job, or taking hormones. Diferent steps to go on the road till you find your self.

Are they bridges between this roads are they others roads? I can't tell because I just know my personal experience, and give you my feelings, but I bet Miriani that you have already thinked about it. Can we do mistakes, or travel too fast or too slow on this roads, again I think that each one of us should know as it is extremly personal.

Kises
Carla

[Billijo49504]

I think that the term of being a CD, covers a very broad spectrem of ppl. From the person who wear a pair of panties once and a while. To the person that are full dressers in a closet to the person that is comfortable around certain family members and going to certain places, to the gurls that are comfortable going every where dressed. But we all fit in the mold. There is room for all of us. This is a support forum for all of us. And I only hope that the support I give, is half as good as I got when I first got here....BJ

[Patti Girl]

Mira,

Good posting and thought provoking.

As to whether we are shifting on the spectrum, or just finding our places, it's probably a bit of both. The more we experience and the more we learn, the more we learn about ourselves, parts of ourselves that are hidden from us.

But no one ever stands still on their development , we are always growing, so we may also change with time in our gender development.

The pleasure may be in our journey more than reaching our "destination".

Patti

[Mirani]

Well whether it is a road or a continuum - I have had a another full weekend en femme.

Until or unless I have some laser/light hair removal, I have a regular reminder of my maleness. When I feel the stubble starting through my foundation, it irks me and frustrates me that I have to remove my makeup, shave and reapply. I cant spend all day without this interference. I am not sure how much it is visible, but because I know its there, I am uncomfortable.
I dont take off my mascara and eye makeup and it is SO odd seeing myself with a top third Mira and a lower 2/3rds Steve.
I am comfortable tho with the thought of all non-work time in Mira mode. So, I think I am past the halfway mark on that continuum.
(and I do look hot in heels!:))

[Genifer Teal]

Well whether it is a road or a continuum - I have had a another full weekend en femme.

Until or unless I have some laser/light hair removal, I have a regular reminder of my maleness.

I'm glad I did. It drastically reduced the maintenance. Legs & arms as well as face. Even just a few sessions made shaving my legs a breeze. I don't mind now & I can skip a few days. Once you start lazer you will never look back. Do your research and choose wisely grasshopper. :happy:

When I feel the stubble starting through my foundation, it irks me and frustrates me that I have to remove my makeup,

I understand. That would not be fun.

I dont take off my mascara and eye makeup and it is SO odd seeing myself with a top third Mira and a lower 2/3rds Steve.

:eek:Yikes!:eek:


I am comfortable tho with the thought of all non-work time in Mira mode.

Way Cool!

So, I think I am past the halfway mark on that continuum.

Whatever makes you happy!

(and I do look hot in heels!:))

You go girl!:thumbsup:



Hugs - Genifer

[MarinaTwelve200]

I was a lurker here for a while before "joining" properly. So I have read many posts and learnt a lot about the "condition" and myself.

One of the most impactive areas has been that we are so very different in many areas and have similarities too. I never before understood what a vast range of people that we are. To call me a crossdresser says nothig at all other than I like to crossdress.

On the CD - TS continuum there are just so many places to stand. And then, I realise I am not standing still ... I have shifted. (OR did I just not know where to stand?).

For me, self-awareness is important. I realise that some people are just happy to "be" - but I want to know why and where too.

Since Amanda came into my life in a significant way I have relaxed into my crossdressing in a BIG way. I now dress every evening and all weekends. This is probably a 100% or more increase. I am just happy and content as Mirani (or Mira as I have now become) and feel it to be my natural place rather than my "special" place.

As I am happy that is what matters. But I find myself asking "who am I?" Am I now Mira who has to be Steve for work? I used to be Steve who took opportunities to be Mirani when he could and careful to only go to CD friendly places.

Am I really more TG than CD? Does it matter?
I certainly dont want gender reassignment - (I like the way my bits work:)), but .. I want to be recognised as female when I am out and relate as Mira at home.

I am sharing this as I have found posts by others have helped me to understand myself. This MAY assist someone else who is in a similar place, or may assist an S.O. who wonders what goes on in our minds at times.

I know Amanda will read this too.

There is NO continuum as you describe. First of all you cant BE a CD, like you can be a TS or TG. CD is something we ALL DO, not what we are.

TS is a very different thing than fetishisim, which is a different thing than S/M which is different than Escapisim---each of which we can experience or BE a degree of, but people in each type of condition Crossdress. and each type often involves some degree of TGisim.

Truth is there are SEVERAL PARALLEL CONTINUUMS, and the first trick is to find just what level you are at and on WHAT continuum. The escapist continum has a different range of intensity, for instance, than the TS continuum. You can be an escapist and not CD untill you reach a certian stage. an actor who takes male roles is not along on the escapist line as the person who CDs to escape his normal self. A TS might feel like a member of the opposite sex, but not want to actually have SRS unless he is is on the other end of the TS spectrum.----ETC, ETC.

Different continuums, not only your place on the line are in force here.

[Nicki B]

First of all you cant BE a CD, like you can be a TS or TG. CD is something we ALL DO, not what we are.

I'd agree completely - until you transition? Then you are not crossdressing, you are living in your normal gender


The escapist continum has a different range of intensity, for instance, than the TS continuum. You can be an escapist and not CD untill you reach a certian stage. an actor who takes male roles is not along on the escapist line as the person who CDs to escape his normal self.

But why is a male who escapes to a feminine role not, to some extent, trans, as you've told me before? :strugglin

[Patti Girl]

There is NO continuum as you describe. First of all you cant BE a CD, like you can be a TS or TG. CD is something we ALL DO, not what we are.

I don't understand that statement.

If one crossdresses, then are they not a crossdresser?

In my view (FWIW), one can choose to crossdress, but certain levels (or types) of TG are not something one chooses but what you are by nature. I feel that I am somewhat transgendered. I can express it and celebrate it by crossdressing, or I can hide it, but I can't make it go away. It is what I am.

Patti

[shirley1]

i replied to this thread earlier didnt go through dont understand the question to be honest i may be thick or stupid still never mind - the bottom line is this we as men/girls whatever we call ourselves dont have the same rights as women in what we can wear - only the brave venture out and stick 2 fingers up - someone has said that we are the last group of people who need to come out and fight for our rights i think maybe theyre right ! i.m english what the hell does continuum mean - you say sidewalk i say pavement - i say hood you say bonnet - love the differences betwwen our lingo - ramifications just about know what that means we say "knock on effect" or something to that effect - crossdress we all understand that hey

[Mirani]

I didnt mean to start an arguement :)

But Shirley, I am from Brighton England ... not the USA. Continuum is a standard English word. Not having encountered it before doesnt make you stupid or thick ... but as you are on a computer you can use search engines to check out words ... ;)

As for going out, I dont see it as sticking up any fingers at anyone. I am not challenging anyone .. I am just being me.

Marina - no offence but for some reason, on a number of threads, we seem to take issue with definitions rather than try to understand a concept.
And lets not get hung up on semantics - whether Crossdresser is a noun or an adjective or a verb (to crossdress)! It doesnt matter whether I say am am a crossdresser or that I crossdress -
All I was trying to do was say that I am in a state of flux. I find myself seeking understanding of myself, by myself. Things are changing and I am perhaps not who I thought I was.
Kind regards

[pamela_a]

I find myself seeking understanding of myself, by myself. Things are changing and I am perhaps not who I thought I was.Mirani, isn't this the essence of life? Growing, changing, evolving: it's all part of living. We are curious beings by nature, constrained mostly by our limited understanding of everything around us. We are able to grasp bits and pieces of our surroundings but we are unable or unwilling to see the entire picture.

You ask if you are Steve or Mirani and the answer is yes to both. Mirani has always been there. It was your conscious that finally allowed her to express herself openly. Looking at it as a continuum or path is just another way of expressing the same thing. Where you are on it is always changing, just as you change in the daily course of life. Where you are now is not where you were yesterday; nor will it be where you are tomorrow.

You were helped along by this wonderful woman Amanda. Moved, perhaps not in a direction you consciously chose but, to where you need to be now. Your opportunity to experience and learn new things has exploded. It seems somewhat ironic but the one thing you attempted to hide from the world contained the key which opened up a whole new world to you. You may never find the answer, but we must also question if we are asking the right questions.

Please pardon the apparent disjointed ramblings. I too struggle to understand and find the more I think I understand the less I really do.

As always, love to you and Amanda.

-Paula-

[Nicki B]

I don't understand that statement.

If one crossdresses, then are they not a crossdresser?

From my perspective, crossdressing/transvestism simply describes what one does. Trans (in whatever form) is about who we really are? :strugglin

Correct me Marina, if that wasn't what you were getting at..

[Carla Mel]

From my perspective, crossdressing/transvestism simply describes what one does. Trans (in whatever form) is about who we really are? :strugglin

Correct me Marina, if that wasn't what you were getting at..

Marina said:
"First of all you cant BE a CD, like you can be a TS or TG. CD is something we ALL DO, not what we are"

Apparently you think that there is a diference between what you are and what you do. It implies you suppose there is an "essence" preceding the "existence". A transexual essence but not a crossdresser essence.

I think you are wrong for two reasons: First because the existence preceed the essence, we are what we do, some are ts others are cd. Second even if you have some kind of idealism where an idea of tg or ts, an essence preceeding what you do, something you are before doing anything (what a strange idea!!!), even so then you can not deny the same exact "ideal" for a crossdresser. Or don't you think a crossdresser cannot simply by closing her eyes feel he is a woman?

Kisses
Carla

[kim85]

A very heartfelt thought provoking post. Your suitation is similar to my SO's

He is a CD but has been offered the surgey before in his life so is tech a TS. He tried before we got together to allow her to live but he said she wasnt strong enough. He is happy been a CD as he gets to have his cake and eat it too :devil:

I am not navie enough to think that he never thinks about becoming her fulltime but as our convos have progressed i dont think he would. Ive seen that she isnt strong enough to live as just her without him. They are a wonderful mix although im not in love with her i love her as a best friend is kinda scary i never thought i would.

But going back to your post (yes its not all about me) I only see Mira i dont see Steve, i dont think it matters if your more CD or TS as long as your happy doing what your doing. After all thats all that matters :hugs:

Kim
xxx

[Patti Girl]

He is a CD but has been offered the surgey before in his life so is tech a TS. He tried before we got together to allow her to live but he said she wasnt strong enough. He is happy been a CD as he gets to have his cake and eat it too :devil:

I am not navie enough to think that he never thinks about becoming her fulltime but as our convos have progressed i dont think he would. Ive seen that she isnt strong enough to live as just her without him. They are a wonderful mix although im not in love with her i love her as a best friend is kinda scary i never thought i would. [/COLOR]

Some of us are just naturally "in between". It can be difficult to accept since most of the world sees gender as binary. I really don't believe that it is binary, some of us are a mix of feminine and masculine and that is our place in nature.

Patti

[Genifer Teal]

Marina said:
"First of all you cant BE a CD, like you can be a TS or TG. CD is something we ALL DO, not what we are" . . .

I think you are wrong for two reasons: First because the existence preceed the essence, we are what we do, some are ts others are cd. . . .

Kisses
Carla


I'm confused. Can't we or can we be a cd?

Gen

[Patti Girl]

I'm confused. Can't we or can we be a cd?

Gen

Gen,

I think the basic problem is that there are hundreds of different definitions running around the Internet. Some people have a definition of CD as a verb only, not a noun (e.g. person), and are very strict in their application of the word.

IMO, it is indeed unfortunate that there are so many conflicting definitions of CD/TV/TG/TS/etc. especially on the Internet. It makes communication difficult, but that's a fact of life with the Internet.

Just my :2c:

Merry Christmas to all. Oh, "winter" arrived yesterday. Happy Winter too! :( Spring is only three months away and the days are starting to be longer too! :)

Patti
who is TG and a CD :)

[Carla Mel]

I'm confused. Can't we or can we be a cd?

Gen


In Marina and Mirani (Hi girls are you sisters?) post aparently not. If I understood well because you are not what you do but some kind of "essence" there is a ts essence, so can be ts but there is no cd "essence" so you can't. I don't like to put words on other's mouth it is what I understood Please M&M tell me if I understood well.

In my opinion yes of course you can be a cd, you are what you do, it is your existence what counts. A fireworker work with fire and a crossdresser with dresses. In your case Gen I will prefer to see you in a dress than near a fire.

Kisses
Carla

[Andine]

Hi Mirani and Amanda!

Happy Christmas and have a great New Year .
I have thoroughly enjoyed the rendition of your saga, and stand in awe at you maturity and comitment! I wish you all the best for the coming year!
Reading your posts, and those of others on this, and the last thread, convinces me that this forum is realy worthwhile ... So I shall write something in the introductory category within a few weeks, and I will stay if you will all have me!
( Things are a bit busy at the moment)

best regards

[damini]

i am damini and i wear saree and bangals and nose ring if any who is itrested please email me on enjoy5186@yahoo.com damini

[Brianna1]

I have been reading this thread and trying to understand the importance of the labels CD/TS/TG etc and wondered if the computer joke applies...there are 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't...thanks to Patti for reminding me of it!
It seems to me that whether people understand the distinctions or not they/we are there and we are all better off working together than apart. If anyone wants me to explain the joke, pm me!

[docrobbysherry]

You ask if you are Steve or Mirani and the answer is yes to both. Mirani has always been there. It was your conscious that finally allowed her to express herself openly. Looking at it as a continuum or path is just another way of expressing the same thing. Where you are on it is always changing, just as you change in the daily course of life. Where you are now is not where you were yesterday; nor will it be where you are tomorrow.-Paula-



A very heartfelt thought provoking post. Your suitation is similar to my SO's

He is a CD but has been offered the surgey before in his life so is tech a TS. He tried before we got together to allow her to live but he said she wasnt strong enough. He is happy been a CD as he gets to have his cake and eat it too :devil:

I am not navie enough to think that he never thinks about becoming her fulltime but as our convos have progressed i dont think he would. Ive seen that she isnt strong enough to live as just her without him. They are a wonderful mix although im not in love with her i love her as a best friend is kinda scary i never thought i would.

But going back to your post (yes its not all about me) I only see Mira i dont see Steve, i dont think it matters if your more CD or TS as long as your happy doing what your doing. After all thats all that matters :hugs:

Kim
xxx

I've read so many posts about men with women inside them. Apparently trying to get out. This sounds schitzophrenic. If u r Steve and Marani, the two could be fighting to take over. Or, they could both be on the same for described continuum. With male at one end and female the other, cooperating to the same end?
Altho I've fantasized about being a woman, my alter ego, Sherry, is nothing more than a made up entity. I can see her in the mirror, and feel what she feels. However, I NEVER feel like a woman in reality. Only a man looking at a pretty woman and fantasizing!
It sounds like a frightening enough situation to have to deal with your own place on the gender scale. Without having to deal with an actual seperate female personality, that wants to come out and take over. Is that what it's actually like? Or is it more like a cooperation between the two personalities?
Or, just one personality with different genders? I'm having a difficult time getting my mind around this, for some reason!
RS

[MarinaTwelve200]

I didnt mean to start an arguement :)

But Shirley, I am from Brighton England ... not the USA. Continuum is a standard English word. Not having encountered it before doesnt make you stupid or thick ... but as you are on a computer you can use search engines to check out words ... ;)

As for going out, I dont see it as sticking up any fingers at anyone. I am not challenging anyone .. I am just being me.

Marina - no offence but for some reason, on a number of threads, we seem to take issue with definitions rather than try to understand a concept.
And lets not get hung up on semantics - whether Crossdresser is a noun or an adjective or a verb (to crossdress)! It doesnt matter whether I say am am a crossdresser or that I crossdress -
All I was trying to do was say that I am in a state of flux. I find myself seeking understanding of myself, by myself. Things are changing and I am perhaps not who I thought I was.
Kind regards

What I mean about CDing is that it is something we all HERE do, but we are all NOT TS or SMs, for example. Its like being a "Cougher" we may cough for different reasons, a cold, something caught in throat or a reaction to smoke.

We cough in reaction to different things , we CD in response to different things. To ME CD is just too general of a term for a similar response to several very different conditions.

A person who coughs usually is not called a "cougher" but rather has a cold, or is sick or has something caught in their throat, etc. A CD may be a TS, a thrill seeker, a humiliationSM, an escapist, etc. So the term CD really means very little save for a proclivity to dress as the opposite gender, it dosent tell us the CONDITION the person has that wants to make them CD.

A person who coughs because of something caught in their throat is NOT the same thing as a person who coughs because they have Pneumonia--even though they share a sympton. CD is like that--a CD who CDs because he is a TS is not the same thing as a CD who CDs to relax.

I hope this clarifies my position

[Genifer Teal]

So the term CD really means very little save for a proclivity to dress as the opposite gender.


I never took it to mean anything more.

Gen

[Carla Mel]

What I mean about CDing is that it is something we all HERE do, but we are all NOT TS or SMs, for example. Its like being a "Cougher" we may cough for different reasons, a cold, something caught in throat or a reaction to smoke.

We cough in reaction to different things , we CD in response to different things. To ME CD is just too general of a term for a similar response to several very different conditions.

A person who coughs usually is not called a "cougher" but rather has a cold, or is sick or has something caught in their throat, etc. A CD may be a TS, a thrill seeker, a humiliationSM, an escapist, etc. So the term CD really means very little save for a proclivity to dress as the opposite gender, it dosent tell us the CONDITION the person has that wants to make them CD.

A person who coughs because of something caught in their throat is NOT the same thing as a person who coughs because they have Pneumonia--even though they share a sympton. CD is like that--a CD who CDs because he is a TS is not the same thing as a CD who CDs to relax.

I hope this clarifies my position


Mirani, don't you think there are diferent reasons as well to "transex". I could use the exact same rational as yours to say "transex" is what you do, not what you are, so there is no point to define somebody as beins transexual. I know two different reasons to "transex" being a woman trapped in a man body (the majority of transex who transition very young) and just wanting to be a woman, not having any interest and pleasure in being a man, loving so much the feminine that you want to be a woman (the majority of transexuals wanting to transition in rather advanced age). So my guess is there are several "reasons" to be transexual, crossdresser, or whatever. Is it a reason to say that there is no transexual, or no crossdresser?
Even if a different crossdresser may have a diferent reason to crossdress than mine, I do feel I have something in common with her and more than with a transexual. Thrill seeker, a humiliationSM, an escapist perhaps but crossdresser as myself.
Having a proclivity to dress (sometimes) as the oposite gender is being a crossdresser and is much more than what you do, even if you do it for different reasons. And by the way are you sure these different reasons are so different? Do you think that the difference between the "reasons" of a "thrill seeker" cd and an "escapist" cd is bigger than the difference between the reason of a "woman trapped in a male body ts" and a "man worshiping so much the feminine that he want to change sex ts"
Kisses
Carla Mel

[Valeria]

I know two different reasons to "transex" being a woman trapped in a man body (the majority of transex who transition very young) and just wanting to be a woman, not having any interest and pleasure in being a man, loving so much the feminine that you want to be a woman (the majority of transexuals wanting to transition in rather advanced age).

<snip>

Do you think that the difference between the "reasons" of a "thrill seeker" cd and an "escapist" cd is bigger than the difference between the reason of a "woman trapped in a male body ts" and a "man worshiping so much the feminine that he want to change sex ts"
Ugh.

I know of really only one reason for "transsexing", that being that your subconcious gender does not match your assigned gender. It's pretty much as simple as that.

In my experience, the vast majority of younger transitioners do NOT believe they are a "woman trapped in a man's body" - that's a melodramatic phrase made up by someone that wasn't TS and used to describe the feeling of gender dysphoria to other people who aren't TS. Most trans women I've known consider it a ridiculous description.

As for older transitioners, I'm less conversant with their rationales, but I've yet to meet anyone that told me that they had transitioned because they were a "man worshiping so much the feminine that he want to change sex" (and incidentally, I find it disturbing that you use a masculine pronoun to describe anyone that has transitioned to living as a woman, regardless of supposed rationale). I'm pretty certain that for older women that transition, internal gender identity is still the driving force.

Oh, and for probably the umpteenth time, someone that identifies as female (especially if they are also legally and anatomically female) isn't crossdressing when they wear female clothing. Not all trans women "crossdress" before transition, and very few "crossdress" (i.e. wear male clothing) after they transition.

Some transsexuals crossdress pre-transition, as a coping mechanism for their suppressed gender dysphoria. Some do not. Some crossdressers have significant gender dysphoria, possibly even bordering on gender identity disorder. Many do not.

The fascination with feminine clothing and makeup is often not there with trans women. I've been known to go an entire year while living as a woman without wearing makeup or a dress or skirt once. Transitioning is generally NOT about a desire to wear pretty, feminine clothing.

[docrobbysherry]

Ugh.
I know of really only one reason for "transsexing", that being that your subconcious gender does not match your assigned gender. It's pretty much as simple as that.

In my experience, the vast majority of younger transitioners do NOT believe they are a "woman trapped in a man's body" - that's a melodramatic phrase made up by someone that wasn't TS and used to describe the feeling of gender dysphoria to other people who aren't TS. Most trans women I've known consider it a ridiculous description.

I'm a hobby CD, and not sure I get your point. TS's aren't, " Women trapped in men's bodies", but their subconscious is female. What, exactly, is the difference? Can u describe it so that a lay person can understand?
RS

[Valeria]

TS's aren't, " Women trapped in men's bodies", but their subconscious is female. What, exactly, is the difference? Can u describe it so that a lay person can understand?
I can try. :happy:

Simply put, I don't feel "trapped" in my body. It doesn't feel alien to me. I don't hate it. In fact, I'm rather fond of my body - I just had funny shaped genitals and a few other issues with it, most of which have now been resolved. Granted, I'd like to lose 5 to 10 pounds and find a way to have a flatter tummy, but I blame society for giving me those particular body issues (and I share them with many other women - at least I don't hate my thighs :p ).

The phrase "trapped in a man's body" makes it sound like my mind is divorced or alienated from my body in a manner atypical of most people. That's not the case with me (or lots of other transitioners with whom I've shared experiences). The phrase simply doesn't resonate with me, and I've found that viewpoint to be close to universal. I'd never have described it that way.

As for my subconcious being female, what I mean is that there are numerous ways in which acting or being treated as male felt "wrong" to me, or in which my male anatomy caused a sense of wrongness. As an example, in my personal case, I was not capable of performing sexually as a man. I don't mean that euphemistically - I didn't have to be "dressed" or anything to have sex. I mean I was sexually attracted to women, but I was literally not interested in (or capable of) performing the male sex role. I'm trying to not be too explicit, so hopefully that is clear, but ultimately, anything that a lesbian couldn't do, I didn't do - ever.

That's not the same thing as feeling trapped in my body, or that I had the wrong body. I didn't even hate my genitals. I just didn't use them in a male fashion, and I'm happy they've now been corrected.

Now that I'm fully female (anatomically and socially), those feelings of wrongness have gone away, and I just feel normal.

Does that help?

[Mirani]

Just for clarification, I am Mirani .. not Marina :)

and thanks Marina for your posts.

I think that one label can mean so many different things to different people and people use different lables to say the same thing!
We cant/dont agree over such labels ... what chance does the "outsider" have ???

Back to my original issue tho ... whatever label is applied to me by myself or others, I have found that the more I have dressed recently (and within a relationship), the more I find myself eager to spend my time in femme mode and behaviour.

I have been surprised by this as I thought I was someone who was happy to identify in femme mode on occasions rather than for a majority of the time.

Thank you everyone for your thoughts and views.

[docrobbysherry]

That is the best description of what being TS is like, that I've ever heard! I certainly understand more than I did!
RS


I can try. :happy:

Simply put, I don't feel "trapped" in my body. It doesn't feel alien to me. I don't hate it. In fact, I'm rather fond of my body - I just had funny shaped genitals and a few other issues with it, most of which have now been resolved. Granted, I'd like to lose 5 to 10 pounds and find a way to have a flatter tummy, but I blame society for giving me those particular body issues (and I share them with many other women - at least I don't hate my thighs :p ).

The phrase "trapped in a man's body" makes it sound like my mind is divorced or alienated from my body in a manner atypical of most people. That's not the case with me (or lots of other transitioners with whom I've shared experiences). The phrase simply doesn't resonate with me, and I've found that viewpoint to be close to universal. I'd never have described it that way.

As for my subconcious being female, what I mean is that there are numerous ways in which acting or being treated as male felt "wrong" to me, or in which my male anatomy caused a sense of wrongness. As an example, in my personal case, I was not capable of performing sexually as a man. I don't mean that euphemistically - I didn't have to be "dressed" or anything to have sex. I mean I was sexually attracted to women, but I was literally not interested in (or capable of) performing the male sex role. I'm trying to not be too explicit, so hopefully that is clear, but ultimately, anything that a lesbian couldn't do, I didn't do - ever.

That's not the same thing as feeling trapped in my body, or that I had the wrong body. I didn't even hate my genitals. I just didn't use them in a male fashion, and I'm happy they've now been corrected.

Now that I'm fully female (anatomically and socially), those feelings of wrongness have gone away, and I just feel normal.

Does that help?

[Carla Mel]

[QUOTE=Kehleyr;1134423]Ugh.

I know of really only one reason for "transsexing", that being that your subconcious gender does not match your assigned gender. It's pretty much as simple as that.

In my experience, the vast majority of younger transitioners do NOT believe they are a "woman trapped in a man's body" - that's a melodramatic phrase made up by someone that wasn't TS and used to describe the feeling of gender dysphoria to other people who aren't TS. Most trans women I've known consider it a ridiculous description.

As for older transitioners, I'm less conversant with their rationales, but I've yet to meet anyone that told me that they had transitioned because they were a "man worshiping so much the feminine that he want to change sex" (and incidentally, I find it disturbing that you use a masculine pronoun to describe anyone that has transitioned to living as a woman, regardless of supposed rationale). I'm pretty certain that for older women that transition, internal gender identity is still the driving force.


QUOTE]


Thank you Kehleyr in helping me. My point was exactly this when answering to Marina (not Mirani sorry for confusing you girls): there is no point in looking for the causes, lets just define what we are by what we do.
In the case of people "transexing" at the very end you are probably right the ultimate reason could be as simple as some "subconcious gender" (even if it could be hard to explain what is this subconcious gender). So I do accept your 'ultimate" and simple reason for "transexing". Yet some can "categorize" and even if you don't like the expression 'men trapped in a woman body' or the idea of autoginefilia, there is people like Blanchard or other, doing this kind of categorization. I'm not defending them, not defending their "scales" or categories. They probably understand much less than you on the matter, but yet to define their poor categories, they do see some diferences, and these differencies exist. Just as an example in just focusing in one diference we can segregate "families". Let say for example that some transexual have always since birth have clearly understood their "unconscious gender", and others not. They will have diferent histories and behaviours. The fact that we can arbitraly difine families has any meaning? No, because as you said at the very end people "transex' because they transex, and i say we are what we do.
And then whatever reason makes a firefighter be a firefighter (hates fire, as his father, to help people etc...) a firefighter is what he does.
And then wathever reason a crossdresser crossdress, and even if you or Blanchard or anybody can categorize acording to some "reasons", at the end are crossdresser so different. Or do we just have a "subconcious" pulsion to do it.

Kisses
Carla

PS sorry if my description of "autogynephiles" hurted you. It is dificult to discribe it simply and without using male adjectives and nouns, to tell you the truth, I'm french and not used to speak politically correctly.

[Andine]

Wish you all a happy new year!

There seems to be quite a wide ranging lot of views on this. I feel that most of you all understand where you fit in quite well.
Being confused would be a problem I expect, and you would need to seek professional help to resolve the issue. Also to consider is the simple question ... Will it work or will I be a miss fit forever?
That might be a far worse fate.

As for me I would not trade in my male body for a female one as the one I have works exceedingly well!
Having said that ... If I were able to come back as a female knowing what I know now of the current world I would have to be able to make a choice of where, and what I would look like .... So it is not realy simple at all.

We are blessed with a great living standard where women are equal to men ... It would be terrible to be trapped in some of the other societies we know.

I would have to say that I am very lucky to have all the options open to me, and the ability to play in both camps, so to speak!

Regards