Discrimination from WITHIN the gender community

[Alicia_lynn419]

I had a troubling experience yesterday. On one of the web communities I'm active on, I saw the profile of a young (23 yr old) male to female transsexual from my home town. I sent her a simple greeting saying I grew up in her town and that I was a CD, telling her I would enjoy chatting and finding out what was new in my old hometown. Her response was quite ugly, saying she did not appreciate being associated with me, telling me I needed fashion advice, and that I was this that and the other for my :girly fantasies", and that I should not go out in public wearing "their" clothes....

I was shocked. I was only trying to say hello and strike up a conversation. What surprised me the most was the elitist attitude, the attitude that we (CDs) were somehow inferior to trans people. Its bad enough to feel discrimination from the general populations, but from people that we are suppose t feel something "in common" with... Geeze...

I was angry, hurt, and really confused. I did pull it together and write a response, simply stating that my intent was only social, and that I was sorry she felt so put off by me (a lowly CD) trying to be social. There were a lot of negative, nasty things I could of said, considering she thought herself a real lady (sorry,a real lady would have conducted herself with much more grace), but I decided not to shrink to her level. So much for the holiday spirit, huh?

Has anyone else encountered such attitudes from the GBLT community? Aren't we all in this together? I guess this just proves my theory to be true, that CDs are still the MOST discriminated group. Yo can be gay or transsexual, and have federally protected rights, but none for being a CD. I was really, really disappointed to come across these attitudes from people that I would expect to empathize with "us".

[Bethany_Anne_Fae]

Alicia, I've been through this many times as well, and it seems to be a stigma attached to us as we are not completing "the journey" as one TS told me. Another had the audacity to say "You don't count in the grand scheme of life as TG".
Its pretty bad when a part of a downtrodden societal group exerts the same prejudice that they themselves abhore.

Enjoy, and relish in what you do for YOU, and you'll find others like you who won't pre-judge.

*much hugs of support*

Zara

[kerrianna]

Sorry you got treated like that, Alicia. :hugs:


I think it speaks more of the person than it does of either you or even their 'category'. Lots of transexuals would have treated you better and with more kindness.

Elitism exists in every facet of life.

A rotter is a rotter, period.
A good person is a good person, period.

You sound like a good person because you didn't allow yourself to get dragged down to her level while you let her know what a bitch she was being.

Don't let individuals like her deter you.

There are lots of people out there who are secure enough with who they are, however they are, that know how to treat other people from all walks of life with dignity and respect.

Obviously she's not a person you want to spend time with. She can hang out at her own bitch party with like-minded judgemental people.

:love:

[Michelia]

I have been involved with GLBT groups and it never ceases to amaze me how little they know about us. We bear the resposibility in part because we are not active enough, politically speaking.

There are TS that will boast aloud that they do not understand CD and do not like CDs. There are gay bars that will not allow CDs or TSs in or at least make it a very hostile environment for them. Everyone has their own struggle going on and sometimes others are viewed as an obstacle to achieving their own agenda. This is normal human behavior.

Still, it is nevertheless much more common that we are accepted by TS and gay people than by the general population.

I am not excusing this barbaric behavior but it does highlight the fact we as a group are still not doing enough to change the way the world sees us and to change the way the laws are written.

Michelia

[Priscilla Ann]

There always seems to be a pecking order doesn't there?

[Karen Francis]

The posts are accurate, some TS are hostile to CD's. Some gay or lesbian individuals are hostile to TG folks.
These "elitist" TS(pre or post op) or gays are missing the boat that the larger community realized sometime ago. If you split the LBGT forces into their individual parts, they will have NO chance of gaining any traction in the politcal arena. Then if you split the TG community into pieces, CD's TS's etc. those groups don't stand a chance of changing the opinion/perception of the public.
As a united force we have the best chance of improving things in the political scheme of things.

[Stormgirl]

PM me this person's contact info, I will give her a piece of my mind.

[Kate Simmons]

Once a screwball always a screwball Alicia. No amount of change will help some people and they will never "get it" no matter who they are.

[trannie T]

No matter what one wears or what one's gender identity may be, one may still be a rude prejudiced #$%#@&^!

[Joy Carter]

I know what your saying Hun. Just to bad that this happened to you. I think you look just fine. :hugs:

I'm on line in various web sights and there is allot of the younger crowd (even none cd's) who have no respect. They think nothing of calling you names or insulting you. This "person" you encountered, fits the bill in my view.
What web sight was this Alicia ?

[Lisa Golightly]

What an absolute rotter... Pride goeth before a fall and all that jazz.

[battybattybats]

Hmmmm....

A thought.
Could this person feel threatened by CDs because we sit between the poles of binary gender?
This person might feel that the idea that you are meant to be just one or the other might justify or reinforce her feelings wheras the idea that others could be hapilly in between might make her uncomfortable because it might lead her to question her comittment to her change. Or she just might deny the possibility that some might be happy in between because she is not. That lack of imagination (like trying to put herself in others shoes and then complaining because she does not like those shoes so nor should anyone else) could lead her to incorrectly conclude that CDs are just TS without conviction or courage or perhaps straight people trying to take all that is good and valuable about being TS without having to go through all the pain and suffering of body modification....

Any of this sound familiar?

Because if we compare it to the arguments of people who have argued that transexuals are just changing so they can conform to gender roles and gain acceptability rather than deal with their bisexuality or homosexuality and struggle with the rest or if we compare it to the arguments of some who feel that crossdressing in general or fetishistic crossdressing is insulting to women...

We can see the same arguments. Made for the same reasons. Leading to the same errors.
You can only be A or Z and if you try and be Z you can't cause you weren't born that way and your trying to be Z without having earned it, without really being Z, just a mockery of Z and that is insulting.

This assumes that only A and Z can possible exist. Any data that doesn't fit into this polarised view is considered hostilely and 'rationalised' or shoehorned into it.

In this case the TS seems to think that you can be born Meant-to-be-Z and someone who might be for example a U is considered a Meant-to-be-Z without the guts.

I don't think this is elitism, more the primal fear that occurs when a theory or worldview that is very precious to them, that they have invested a lot in, that in fact might be their sole self-justification or source of self-identity meets something that threatens to cause it to collapse like a house of cards.

To defend it a strong emotional reaction is brought forward to aggressively reject the source of discongruity in their worldview, the threatened tenets are restated fervently to ensure conviction in the worldview or belief, casting out doubt or the consideration of doubt let alone any notions of testing or reexamining or revaluating the worldview.

In fact the same pattern of behaviour can be seen in all sorts of subjects from racism and homophobia to simple work practices or inconsequential day to day life things.

[Kate Simmons]

In either case, it's the idea that people have to fit into a model or a standard. They don't. Why try to over analyze it and just simply accept folks for who they are? None of us are the "be all" and "end all" of human development. Anyone who thinks they are is self deceptive. As we continue to learn we realize that diversity is indeed the name of the game and if we attempt to define eveything to the the "Nth" decree, we have already given up our quest for ourselves and have allowed someone else to define it for us. I, personally am not ready to do that and value the fact that we are all unique individuals. We contiue to learn and grow together.:happy:

[DAVIDA]

All of us have a**h***s and then some are!

[Tasha T]

I used to date a post op TS who dumped me after I revealed to her that I was a crossdresser. This is a person who at one time worked with cd's doing hair and makeup, but her quote to me was, "I don't want no man in a dress!"

I've had a few other transsexuals pull the elitest thing on me too and I just don't get it. Can't we all just get along? Apparently not, but that's human nature.

[kay_jessica]

Perhaps, and I know this may be a little controversial, but it reflects something that is happening more an more here the UK. Specifically in Milton Keynes as its where it directly effects me. Now I have always said that MK in a very T tolerant city. Indeed it still is. Except that is when certain T events are held at Pink Punters. Now I shop in MK dressed very often. I go to PPs both on T nights and ordinary nights. On two occasions now I have had a little negative response from sales assistants when I wanted to try on a dress. On the latter of these occasions, which was this Friday I made an issue of it with the SA. Now the store has a T policy which so far as I know and experienced apart from these two occasions is very accommodating to the transgendered community. When pressed however, the two SAs qualified there stance by saying "We have been told that this weekend we are not to let "men" try on clothes in the ladies dressing rooms". More to the point they did not want me to try on such expensive clothes. It would seem that this store has a recurrent problem, in that every few weeks they get descended upon by TVs coming in heavily made up trying on really expensive dresses and clothes leaving make up smudge all over them and not buying a single thing. In fairness the SA did say come back another time and we'll sort you. They recognized the difference between me as a TS and and the "others". So perhaps the TS/TV thing is a reflection of the "bad press" that some TVs (CDs) are giving to the wider community and we are all getting tarred with the same brush. I discussed this with a couple of TS friends and they had noticed the same thing. They also confirmed that on the day in question that there were half a dozen CDs wandering around MK centre making a spectacle of them selves. So I guess on certain weekends I avoid shopping in MK centre.....

Perhaps Alicia, the TS was just be over protective of herself. I've met CDs, and regretted it afterwards as i) they use me as a cover to give them someone to hide behind, ii) usually blow away any anonymity I had whilst out (I get treated totally different when I'm with a CD rather that a TS.) iii) Often turn up in totally inappropriate dress for the occasion thus exasperating i and ii.

Hugs


Kay

[Marla S]

Her response was quite ugly, saying she did not appreciate being associated with me, telling me I needed fashion advice, and that I was this that and the other for my :girly fantasies", and that I should not go out in public wearing "their" clothes....

Actually that doesn't surprise me.
I am not exactly sure why that is, but it seems to happen frequently. Some TSs seem to fear CDs or fear to be confused with CDs.
This "wearing their clothes" I even have read here on CD.com lately (last week) ... not nice and not wise.
In a documentary about a TS on TV, a TS after SRS said " I am more than happy that I am a woman now and can't be confused with the "short skirt fraction" (meaning CDs) anymore".

Yes it is some kind of elitism, but I think it is one that has its roots in a lack of self-confidence which is covered and compensated by some kind of arrogance.

In a more subtle way you will find this "elitism" if you ask the question "what makes a woman/men". Those people usually have a definition that is precisely as general to describe their condition. A more strict definition will be seen as an rude insult (because it would exclude them), a wider one is "nonsense" because it would include more than their condition.
It's annoying.

[Wendy me]

see it dose not matter who or what group your associated with those persons will be in the mix ... you know "I AM BETTER THAN YOU"........"YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO THINK ON ANY LEVEL YOU MIGHT BE LIKE "US"......... "I AM SMARTER OR BETTER THAN YOU"...

see these people are carriers of stupidly .... they can't see that in order to gain respect and acceptance for them in their lives issues .... they too must respect and acceptance others ..... "WHEN ARE WE ALL WITH ISSUES OF GENDER IN SOME WAY OR A OTHER GOING TO UNDERSTAND WE TOGETHER NEED TO ACCEPT EACH OTHER BEFORE WE CAN EXPECT THE REST OF THE WORLD TO DO THE SAME ???????"..........

don't worry for her feel sorry for her as she truly missed the whole idea that we are all different and we are all the same ......

i stopped with accepting my self as a CD ... (a comfort zone if you will) might i be trans what ever ??? could be and might not be ..... i look at the different groups here MTF'S ....FTM'S.... TRANS WHAT EVER ...GG'S ....FAB'S........and i see people all the same no one better than the next ..... and we all need the same respect and understanding ..... if we don't start here within our own how can we ever to be seen as we would all like to be ????.........

[Eugenie]

Well, some transsexuals are quite nice with transgender or x-dressers, other aren't. Likewise for the LGBT community, some are nice to us while some are hostile.

In most cases it is often a question of personal expérience. Having had a bad one with one or more of us may have shaped their perception of X-dressers.

I am currently involved in discussions with a large LGBT organisation in Europe and I have excellent relation with them. And yes, it is trus that they don't appreciate very well out situations... It is made even more difficult as the term X-dresser covers a wide variety of styles and behaviours...

Not an easy case to make for x-dressers given some of the excentric behaviours that are displaued, even though they are rather rare.

Note that in a true "non discrimination" spirit, even excentric X-dressing styles should be accepted...

:hugs:
Eugenie

[kay_jessica]

........................
Not an easy case to make for x-dressers given some of the excentric behaviours that are displaued, even though they are rather rare.

Note that in a true "non discrimination" spirit, even excentric X-dressing styles should be accepted...

:hugs:
Eugenie

Even when the eccentric CDer (even Fetish) dresses provokingly in normal public spaces, however, I do not wish to be associated with exhibitionist. I am not saying that Alicia is such a person, but put your self in the TS's shoes, she is living in the community full time and may not like the idea of some one coming into the community and drawing unwanted attention to her. She may well be accepted within her community and know to be TS on the other hand nobody may know. As a TS you have no control over how a CD may present when in your company, so it is often better to stay clear. When I go out I go out to blend to be NOT noticed, and is it unfortunate but true, some CDers put there fetish desires above general acceptance, and once the spotlight is on them it does not take much for the audience to start to question the girl with them.

Hugs


Kay

[Marla S]

Even when the eccentric CDer (even Fetish) dresses provokingly in normal public spaces, however, I do not wish to be associated with exhibitionist. I am not saying that Alicia is such a person, but put your self in the TS's shoes, she is living in the community full time and may not like the idea of some one coming into the community and drawing unwanted attention to her. She may well be accepted within her community and know to be TS on the other hand nobody may know. As a TS you have no control over how a CD may present when in your company, so it is often better to stay clear. When I go out I go out to blend to be NOT noticed, and is it unfortunate but true, some CDers put there fetish desires above general acceptance, and once the spotlight is on them it does not take much for the audience to start to question the girl with them.

If you think about it it is an extremely narrowed few.

That is like every woman has to be considered a prostitute because some women are prostitutes.
That is like every men is an exhibitionist, because some men are exhibitionists.
That is like all humans are murders, because there are some murders among human beings.

I think it is an expression of the lack of ability to define yourself by yourself. An exaggerated dependency on others which you use to define yourself. The consequence is that you have to higher some and lower others in order to make the "generalized" border more obvious and justify your being. No good.

[MJ]

Sorry you got treated like that, Alicia.

i would never treat anyone like that .. after all we have in common and what we go through , A like minded soul would be a welcome treat ..
and yes i have had that problem .. IMHO it's her loss :hugs:

[Angie G]

Alicia I have found that whatever the group there are some a-holes who think they are better then others and have no problem showing it don't let that jerk bother you.
You and most other CD's are beautiful kind abd loving people as you are and may I say a far sight better then that person ever may hope to be. :hugs:
Angie

[Wendy me]

see this upsets me to no end ..... Kay ???? the CD might drag you down ????? excuse tmf out of me ..... i am if i have to be labeled a CD .... though i not dressing and living full time dressed as a women .....i am as i have been my whole life been a full time person with real like gender issues......

who tmf might see some one as they are with gender issues to what ever extreme be put on the frigging pestle ???????..........oh true we have some Fetish CD'S and some that might put that spot light on them .... but all walks of life have this as well .....not just CD'S and people with gender issues .......


so in this regard should the CD'S stay home in the closet???? might the TRANS persons be keep out of sight until they have SRS???????...... after all we don't the "NORMAL " foke to be put in a spot light ..... for some god dame freak show out running around .....

exactly we all do and need our level of comfort and acceptance .... and the thinking that you might be put in a spot light because of some "SUB STRANDED CD FREAK SHOW" shows that once again we have a lot of work to do in our own back yard.....

in every day life there are a lot of different people we choose to be around and also those we don't ..... that's fine thats life ...... same here with this thinking US/THEM thinking ....


lol we are not on the same page buy that type of thinking ..........hell we are not even drinking out of the same six pack............

how sad this thinking of US /THEM is right here with us??????........

[Sharon]

Do not judge a whole community by a relative few.

[kay_jessica]

If you think about it it is an extremely narrowed few.

That is like every woman has to be considered a prostitute because some women are prostitutes.
That is like every men is an exhibitionist, because some men are exhibitionists.
That is like all humans are murders, because there are some murders among human beings.

I think it is an expression of the lack of ability to define yourself by yourself. An exaggerated dependency on others which you use to define yourself. The consequence is that you have to higher some and lower others in order to make the "generalized" border more obvious and justify your being.

Excuse me. Where on this planet do you get that from. I certainly do not depend on fetish hairy panty wearers to justify my existence. As for defining my self I am totatly at ease with who and what I am. I don't hide behind any closet. The profile pic of me is me and there are plenty of girls that can confirm it. I am merely stating a fact and I'll make absolutely clear. On Friday afternoon in Milton Keynes Centre there were no less than 6 CDers prancing around as though they were gods gift to transism. People were laughing at them. They had no clue what to wear and how to present themselves as female in public. Their skirts were so short and tight that you saw their panties and stocking tops (not just a glimps). Bulges in their fronts you could hang your coat on. And they expected to be treated like girls. Consequently, when I went legitimately to a store I have shopped in many times the SA asked me not to try on a dress I wanted to buy and that was because they are fed up with CDers taking taking piss. Give us a break. If people want to go out like that then I do not blame any TS for not wanting to ever risk associating with a CDer incase that CDer turns up dressed as he wants his fantasy girl to dress. We are there all the time, we have to live with the consequencies of a HPW flashing a bit of dick around every time there is a tranny night at a local club.

[kay_jessica]

Do not judge a whole community by a relative few.

But we are being judged by the action of that that few and its pissing me off.

[Sally24]

Everybody, no matter what type of "group" they belong to, are frequently judged by the worst of their "type". It's just human nature to remember the bad and apply it to others in the future. It's not right, but it is pretty common.

I have seen many CD's that I would not want to hang out with in public. Their attitude, their presentation, their innappropriate fashions. I just don't apply that to anybody else but them. I try to judge each person by themselves and that works pretty well for me.

TS have their own set of problems and being that they are full time, they probably have a right to be cautious. That doesn't require being rude, mean, or bigoted. You can be careful with who you associate with and still be a class act.

This girl was probably a jerk before and is still a jerk. Move on and don't take it personal.

[Wendy me]

Kay my dear i love you and accept you for just who you are i truly do .... but my dear you and that kinda thinking is what is bring us all down..... so cross dressers ain't on Your level ...and they "MIGHT' do say or wear and act in a way that pisses you off ?????

I certainly do not depend on fetish hairy pantie wearers to justify my existence. As for defining my self I am totatly at ease with who and what I am. I don't hide behind any closet.


your rude and nasty on so many ways ...... excuse your self .... be more thoughtful as to who's home you just shit in ..... look around here see were the flying fuc* you are.... you ( and i won't stoop so low as to include any one with you) have just insulted most of our members here ....

might your existence on God's green earth lead you to the point in your life were your eyes open to see the wrongs you spread with a close mind..... truly sad .... truly sad.....

[PeggySue]

Hi Alicia,

I'm sorry you got such a harsh response. That is too bad they had to let their anger come out. You don't deserve it. Some people have trouble controlling themselves.
You are Ok in my book. Just stick with us.
Hugs,
PeggySue

[Marla S]

Excuse me. Where on this planet do you get that from. I certainly do not depend on fetish hairy panty wearers to justify my existence. As for defining my self I am totatly at ease with who and what I am. I don't hide behind any closet. The profile pic of me is me and there are plenty of girls that can confirm it. I am merely stating a fact and I'll make absolutely clear. On Friday afternoon in Milton Keynes Centre there were no less than 6 CDers prancing around as though they were gods gift to transism. People were laughing at them. They had no clue what to wear and how to present themselves as female in public. Their skirts were so short and tight that you saw their panties and stocking tops (not just a glimps). Bulges in their fronts you could hang your coat on. And they expected to be treated like girls. Consequently, when I went legitimately to a store I have shopped in many times the SA asked me not to try on a dress I want to buy and that was because they are fed up with CDers taking taking piss. Give us a break. If people want to go out like that then I do not blame any TS for not wanting to ever risk associating with a CDer incase that CDer turns up dressed as he wants his fantasy girl to dress. We are there all the time, we have to live with the consequencies of a HPW flashing a bit of dick around every time there is a tranny night at a local club.
Please accept my apology and sorry, for phrasing badly. That was not in particular aimed at you.

On the other side if I judge a particular behavior in the wrong way, I can't moan about being judged in the wrong way.

If there are some idiots prowl around in fem clothes, is it because of the clothes or because they are idiots, and would also be in drab ?

Yep it is giving us a hard time sometimes, but the way out is not to aim that on the appearance but on the behavior, which is inappropriate in any mode.
Otherwise we have to say the incident happened to Alicia is completaly justified, because it follows the same pattern.
And it would also be justified to say that any GM should not wear fem clothes at all and it doesn't matter whether he identifys as CD or TS, because just this will piss some off and will give some a bad image ... never had trouble with loosing job, friends, family ???????
The boss doesn't want to have is business identified with trans people, "friends" don't want to be seen with a "freak", family feels embarrassed or hurt. It is the same way of thinking and judging.

Applying this way of thinking makes it hard to draw a line what is allowed and what not.

My way out is to convince others by my own personality and not by presentations, behaviors, or bad manners of others.

[SweetCaroline]

I'm a straight male CD, and maybe it's just the circle I belong to, but I've never met anyone who was TS, full-time, FTM, Bi, gay, or however they choose to define themselves, who wasn't sympathetic and understanding to what we go through as cross-dressers, in spite of rumors that some groups were snobbish or unfriendly.

I tend to agree with the others and chalk it up as a "don't judge a group by one jerk" instance. Some of us have been heckled and harassed by straight, non-CD men, does that mean that all CD men hate us? I think not.

[Billie1]

I agree, and have experienced firsthand, that 'eliteism' exists in individuals regarding CD'ing. After further review, however, my conclusion was that this is a rather narrow-minded and selfish perspective that certain individuals seem to carry with them. I do understand that the flamboyant drag queens and exhibitionists do not help with any positive attitudes, but judging an entire group by one particular segment is not fair, either. The person who made the 'fetish' statement is a CD entertainer, with breat implants, undergoing hormone therapy, but with no intent of SRS. In other words, what's the diff? I was initially hurt and confused, but then, my feelings turned to resentment and distain - almost down to her level.

Luckily, however, it makes me appreciate the wonderful, supportive and understanding group that we have here all the more. Thanks, girlz!

[kay_jessica]

Kay my dear i love you and accept you for just who you are i truly do .... but my dear you and that kinda thinking is what is bring us all down..... so cross dressers ain't on Your level ...and they "MIGHT' do say or wear and act in a way that pisses you off ?????

I certainly do not depend on fetish hairy pantie wearers to justify my existence. As for defining my self I am totatly at ease with who and what I am. I don't hide behind any closet.


your rude and nasty on so many ways ...... excuse your self .... be more thoughtful as to who's home you just shit in ..... look around here see were the flying fuc* you are.... you ( and i won't stoop so low as to include any one with you) have just insulted most of our members here ....

might your existence on God's green earth lead you to the point in your life were your eyes open to see the wrongs you spread with a close mind..... truly sad .... truly sad.....

What is truly sad is that people don't like the truth. And the truth is that there are some that just can't hack it, They are told they look gorgeous even when they asked for an "honest" comment. I know exactly where I am. I know many girls on this site and I like and respect them. Some are in the closet and others are more open. I respect them because they don't pretend to be something they are not. Maybe I was a bit harsh when I said I don't hide in the closet, but I am here to and it saddens me that we as a community aren't honest to others on here.

Alicia made a post about being shunned by a TS. I am just putting over a reason why some TS's would'd be seen dead with a CDer. The truth can be brutal, but as I said in an earlier post if exhibitionist HPW are occasionally out and make a spectacle of them selves it effects those of us who live and work in the community. We get tarred with the same brush.

I appreciate that many girls here don't go out, so you can not appreciate what it is like to be totally accepted within a community. Yes girls take their first steps out dressed and they may or may not pass, but that is not the important thing about being out. What is important is how you fit in with the community at large. People do not like nonconformity thrust into their faces. You may not have the figure or looks to pass as a woman, but so long as you present "normal" then bye enlarge you'll be accepted. And yes I resent having that acceptance taken away from me by the inconsiderate.

[Marla S]

I appreciate that many girls here don't go out, so you can not appreciate what it is like to be totally accepted within a community. Yes girls take their first steps out dressed and they may or may not pass, but that is not the important thing about being out. What is important is how you fit in with the community at large. People do not like nonconformity thrust into their faces. You may not have the figure or looks to pass as a woman, but so long as you present "normal" then bye enlarge you'll be accepted. And yes I resent having that acceptance taken away from me by the inconsiderate.
A transperson doesn't fit in the community which is called society and a transperson is not considered normal by the community society. Being trans gives our families and friends a hard time and is considered inappropriate.
If this arguments hold true, we all should purge and present the gender that is determined by our sex. End of transpersons in public. Period.

[kay_jessica]

A transperson doesn't fit in the community which is called society and a transperson is not considered normal by the community society. Being trans gives our families and friends a hard time and is considered inappropriate.
If this arguments hold true, we all should purge and present the gender that is determined by our sex. End of trans person in public. Period.

I disagree, I know 20 or so TS's (pre op to post op) within a 20 mile radius of where I live and many more out with. We are accepted within our communities. We have normal jobs, normal lives. Some know that we are trans but don't care. There were SAs in that very same shop on Friday that knew me and served me because they accepted me regardless of the directive from above. They were the ones that told me about the problems with the "others". Never the less I still resented being barred from the other dressing room because of them.

[Marla S]

I disagree, I know 20 or so TS's (pre op to post op) within a 20 mile radius of where I live and many more out with. We are accepted within our communities. We have normal jobs, normal lives. Some know that we are trans but don't care. There were SAs in that very same shop on Friday that knew me and served me because they accepted me regardless of the directive from above. They were the ones that told me about the problems with the "others". Never the less I still resented being barred from the other dressing room because of them.
That is a good thing, I am happy for you and the others, and it shows that some "normal folks" is more tolerant and has a less narrow view than some TG folks. So, there is hope.

[AmberTG]

My thought on the issue that started this thread is that young person has self esteem issues and needs to seperate herself from the "lowly CDers" in order to be able to be comfortable with her own gender issues. She probably justifys her gender issues by saying that she's a girl on the inside so it's ok for her to be what she is. That opinion seems to be too common on various websites, but it's wrong. There is no black or white on the gender spectrum, just many shades of gray.
Just because I call myself a transgendered person does not make me one bit better then a CDer. Any time I would start to think like that, I'd better remind myself that I was a CDer for 30 years before I knew there was a different description for my gender issues.
AS far as associating with another non-TS CDer, that depends entirely on the person. There's a lot of "regular" people that I wouldn't associate with also, depending on the person, the CDing issue isn't very important, the person's attitudes toward life issues would be much more important.

[Amanda Shaft]

Have I got this right? A pre op TS trumps a CD, a post op TS trumps a pre op TS, a GG trumps a TS, a GM trumps a GG, and a CD trumps a GM? and those panty loving lowlife don't trump anyone.
Amanda

[Joy Carter]

Civility..Acceptance..Respect..Tolerance

Some of the most important words to live by. I make a stand when its necessary, but I won't let another's opinions ruin my day.
You can't change someone no matter how wrong they maybe. That is on them.:2c:

[AmberTG]

I agree with Joy on this one!
Just because you have an opinion, doesn't make it right! Unless, of course, you're my "born again" ex father-in-law.

[Holly]

What is really sad is that this thread is doing nothing more than perpetuate the "us verses them" attitude so many are fighting so had to abolish. It appears that there are still those who feel that if another's trans activity does not fit within their ideal definition then it must be deemed inappropriate and therefore damaging. How self-centered and egotistical! :(

[Tamara Croft]

Whilst I don't agree with a lot of the things you have said, you have also come across as an elitist TS, I do have to agree with this quote.
What is truly sad is that people don't like the truth. And the truth is that there are some that just can't hack it, They are told they look gorgeous even when they asked for an "honest" comment. I know exactly where I am. I know many girls on this site and I like and respect them. Some are in the closet and others are more open. I respect them because they don't pretend to be something they are not. Maybe I was a bit harsh when I said I don't hide in the closet, but I am here to and it saddens me that we as a community aren't honest to others on here.It is a sad, but true fact, I have seen some pictures on this forum that people have said... oh wow you look fantastic... that person 'doesn't' look fantastic and then said person goes out looking like that and gets ridiculed... I don't want to sound mean and I know people come here looking for support and want to hear the 'oh you look great' comments, but let's face the facts, if you are coming here for support to go 'out in the community'... you should be giving people realistic comments.

I have seen a few TS that don't want to be seen with CD's, I've seen it on this forum, but even though we are all a community, isn't that the TS actual right? I wouldn't want to be seen out with a CD that looked like a clown and acted like a complete idiot... that may be elitist, or whatever, but isn't that my choice who I want to be seen with?

Those with children think about this... how many times have you said to them... 'if you're coming out with me, you aren't going out like that!!!'... and you make them go get changed to look at least half respectable?

[Genifer Teal]

I feel I have some insight as I know a few who transitioned.

First, I will say this persons actions we inappropriate. There is no reason to be like that even if you want to steer clear of CDs. Secondly, this attitude does not represent all TS women. With that said, I can explain a little of her perspective.

For a TS, it is all about being a woman and being percieved only as a woman every minute of every day, all the time. For them passing is PARAMOUNT. Stealth is the best path to success. If at any time they are potentially percieved otherwise, their whole world can be turned upsidedown. This can and does include their friends, living situation, carrer - their entire life. Many TSs who came up through the CD ranks leave those friends behind. They feel a need to avoid any visible connection to their male past. To be seen with a CDer could start people thinking and they might make the connection to the TS's past.

Not every TS can be total stealth. For each there may be some peoeple who know their history. When most of us CDs are out there, we are obvious. People notice us. Since the public doesn't know any better, they lump the CDs, TVs and TSs together, including the guy driving naked in panties & a bra at 2 am. How do you explain that to someone? How do you stop them from thinking you did that too or that is what you really are?

Imagine your SO discovered your CDing on her own and came here to do research. Your first concern would be to let her know where you fit in the wide spectrum of CDing represented here. She might think you want sex with guys, she might think you will definately transition some day, she might think its a quick sexual thrill. None of this might be correct and much of it might be worse (to her) than your actual situation. Now imagine you are never allowed to explain where you fit in to her. What if she packed her things and left, never to speak to you again? You would feel like that is so unfair, you don't know what I'm like.

Welcome to the TS mind set. This is what we do for them when we go out and the public sees us. We open the book and the public gets to pick and chooses what to belive. The TSs get stuck handling damage control and it is them against society. They need to explain themselves to everyone. We all try hard to look our best. We also know that is not easy. For those of us who trek out into society, how did you look your first time out? That fuels the publics perception of all of us.

Society is harsh and unforgiving. The TS's deal with it every day. Some of us deal with it occasionaly, some never. I am not justifying this girls behavior. Hopefully I have given some insight as to where it comes from.

Gen

[SiobhanW]

including the guy driving naked in panties & a bra at 2 am

Yeah, sorry about that. It won't happen again.

Signed,
Fetish hairy panty wearer.

[Mary Morgan]

In the final analysis, no one can hold me back or keep me down, or subordinate me unless I give them the power to do so. The real message here for all of us is not to be like that when we encounter something with which we are ignorant, or someone with whom we are uncomfortable. We can be better than that.

[AmberTG]

Genifer, I think you're pretty much right on the mark! It's not easy being green!

Tamara, once again, you've brought up a very important observation about this sight! I really don't want people "blowing smoke up my ass" with my looks or my pictures! If I'm ever to be sucessful in my presentation, I need honesty, maybe not brutal honesty, we all do have feelings after all, but honesty when I post a picture.
I'll be quite honest here, there are some pictures here that make me cringe when I see them, sorry, but that's just me. I don't think I'm any better then they are, I cringe at my own pictures also, I know my own faults all too well. I refuse to tell someone that they're beautiful when they don't look that way to me! I just choose to shut my mouth and keep my comments to myself rather then hurt someone else's feelings.

[Megan70]

I've seen the same thing here in my city in Upstate NY., but on a limited much narrow minded view, and they were by popular Drag Queens that are regular performers at some clubs. One was quote in an interview in the paper as saying "CDs give me the willies". They cannot for the life of them understand why a non-gay man would want to wear womans clothes and makeup for pleasure and relaxation , and get some sexual gratification from it. They don't. With them its a job, they go backstage after finished a nights performance, change into drab and go home with their male lover. A job, a performance -thats it, no more. "what is this cross dressing thing all about bloke? I don't understand it?"

Conversely I am always welcomed by lesbians and FTM transmasuline folk. They have a better understanding it seems , even though it does not dwelve as deeply into our sexuality and gender as theirs. Some gay bars also seem to stop dead and have eyes turn at you when you walk in.... exit stage right!.
The world is a funny place , and we ourselves are considered to some "funny, odd" people, and that is why the discriminating treatment. :devil:
Move on I say.
Love :hugs:
Megan

[Genifer Teal]

This whole lowest common denominator - guilt by association thing can be carried further. It has everything to do with why ENDA may not pass. Employers fear having to let any employee who wants to wear a dress do so. It is one thing to let a passable TS dress appropriately in the office. What about the big hairy masculine guy who wants to do the same? It is not a matter of personal acceptance, it is societies accpetance on the whole. You could loose business because people don't want to deal with that individual. That is why so many are against it.

The same can be said for bathroom laws. NYC gives us the right to use the facility of the gender we represent. Should this give ANYONE the righ to throw on a wig and enter the ladies room? How do you write a law which distinguished between the two situations? It is a difficult world we live in. Our society is unforgivignng.

Gen

[kay_jessica]

..........

Society is harsh and unforgiving. The TS's deal with it every day. Some of us deal with it occasionaly, some never. I am not justifying this girls behavior. Hopefully I have given some insight as to where it comes from.

Gen

This is so true, and in my experiance on Friday, my world was turned upside down because of those exhibitionist, there behaviour, trying clothes that they weren't going to buy upset the management of my favorite store so much that ALL men dressed as women were barred from the dressing rooms. I pass very well normally, and my mind boggles as to what those 6 got up to to cause such a backlash.

Tamara, I'm sorry if I come across as an elitist. I am not, I'm just a TS trying to get on in life without being compromised. I have some good CD friends that I will go out with. One is a hard core goth, but what she and my other CD friends don't do is thrust their panties in the general publics faces.

[Tamara Croft]

Tamara, I'm sorry if I come across as an elitist. I am not, I'm just a TS trying to get on in life without being compromised. I have some good CD friends that I will go out with. One is a hard core goth, but what she and my other CD friends don't do is thrust their panties in the general publics faces.Please don't apologise to me for anything, we are who we are right? I come across as the forum Nazi admin... does it bother me? sometimes... but it's just an opinion... I'm still here right? I don't think anyone has the right to be showing their underwear in public, isn't that just indecent anyway? I also don't agree with people going in shops, trying on loads of clothes just for the thrill, especially when they rip the clothes and shove them back on the shelves/hangers etc.. I saw a lovely skirt once that I wanted to buy, sadly some moron had tried it on and broke the zip... instead of handing it in, they simply put it back on the hanger... could have been anyone... The point is, some people just do not know how to behave in public and they drag anyone down that is in their catergory so to speak.... such is life eh?

[Kate Simmons]

Gee, I must be doing something wrong here. I get along with everyone whether they are dressed like guy, girl or a giraffe (no, not Karen :heehee:). I've never been ashamed of my friends or being with anyone or associated with them regardless of how "good" or "bad" they look (hey, I'm not winning any beauty contests soon:rolleyes:) or how well they "pass". I'm just happy to see them out having fun being themselves. Call me a schmuck, call me old fashioned but never, ever call me late for lunch.:happy:

[jaina]

Has anyone else encountered such attitudes from the GBLT community? Aren't we all in this together? I guess this just proves my theory to be true, that CDs are still the MOST discriminated group. Yo can be gay or transsexual, and have federally protected rights, but none for being a CD. I was really, really disappointed to come across these attitudes from people that I would expect to empathize with "us".

"us" is often the problem

Part of this is that many CD's spend so much effort separating themselves from the GLBT community, and being VERY vocal about not being part of it, that it is only natural that rifts form. Don't blame gay and TS rights organisations for succeeding. learn from their methods and stop failing.

CD's want federally protected rights, but many simply will not help. Often actually hindering the rights process by supporting oganisations that are anti-GLBT. When you don't even expect rights in personal relationships its not surprising that you fail.

You can't expect to act like being CD is something that needs to be hidden and require permission AND expect federal support for it as a lifestyle. If you are treated like a second class citizen or discriminated against it is your fault for accepting , no not accepting, but welcoming that treatment.

[Wendy me]

Kay what shocks me here is of every one you insulted put down and trashed you say your sorry to Tamara....????? please forgive me for not finding your side in this ..... i know persons from all sides of the gender issues and can't ever say i ever met any one quite like you .....

i hold no one as better than the next one ... god love you with a thought process like yours some were out there some one that thinks like you is looking down their nose at you .... why would you even waste your time coming here with all these sub stranded people ...... or perhaps in some way thinking your better than a lot of our members makes you feel good ..... ???????....

my job here is to watch out for the good of this forum and for the good of it's members ... and that means thinking of them all as people and treating them all the same no matter what title they add to their name .......

you get offended ????? abought people trying on things in your fav. shop????? my dear i get offended by some one coming here to our house shitting on our floor and insulting our members ...... your disrespect for our members (of which you are ) is not very welcome .....if this is how you truly are in real life .... i am sad for you ... i find every person has something to offer and we all grow a bit having touched each other even for a short while.......

[Genifer Teal]

Society doesn't understand a man who is happy to be a man but wants to wear womens clothing. They see it as little more than a fetish. If someone is TS and wants to become a woman, it is still not easy to accept but at least they can apply some reason to the dressing. Gay guys don't get it. I had one approach me and ask if I want to be a woman, why just pretend? In some ways I understand them perceiving it as little more than a costume. Who am I trying to fool? Even harder to understand is how can I dress this way yet be attracted to women? I am certainly not dressing to attract women.

Gen

[Wendy me]

[QUOTE=kay_jessica;1123305]This is so true, and in my experiance on Friday, my world was turned upside down because of those exhibitionist, there behaviour, trying clothes that they weren't going to buy upset the management of my favorite store so much that ALL men dressed as women were barred from the dressing rooms. I pass very well normally, and my mind boggles as to what those 6 got up to to cause such a backlash.

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30857


" love going out and frequently do. I can be found browsing the shops of Oxford, Milton Keynes, Bicester Village, Reading and Luton among others. I love trying on expensive dresses , the assistants are very helpfull in helping to me decide which one suits me . Only wish I could afford to buy them"


so your OK to try on things as long as the sub standard CD'S don't do it as well ??????........Kay ?????? and could you tell me just what color is your kettle????? ...............

might turning your world upside down be a bit of a good thing ??? .........

[docrobbysherry]

I have read some very hypocritical and self rightious posts on this thread. Also some wonderful, loving, caring posts! U all know which classifications u fit in!
I have gotten some of this "attitude" aimed at me on this site! Many of u consider me a " second class CD". Why? Because I stay in the closet? Or my pics don't fit the norm and I enjoy showing them off too much? Or because I sometimes speak my mind? Well, if that's how u feel, the heck with u hypocrits! U "first class normal CD's"! Yeah, rite!
All I know is; I love to dress as Sherry, and I'm excited to show her off, and I was SO happy to find this site 3 months ago. Filled with sypathetic folks, (or so I thought)! Now, I'm NOT SURE!
RS

[Kate Simmons]

Well, for what it's worth RS, I think you are pretty cool myself. Not to mention I love all of your looks and outfits.:hugs::happy:

[Violetgray]

Hm.

Let's keep in mind that inappropriate exhibitionist behavior is not exclusive to CD's. There are many people when they hear transsexual immediately think of ******* prostitutes. Sure there are many, but does that reflect the TS community as a whole? Of course not.

And lets keep in mind that most TS are CDs first, we all start in male bodies, CD and TG. What that means is that when you look at a crossdressed male, you can't really assume that the person isn't TS. I personally know a post-op woman who, as a man, was as crazy and flamboyant as ever. She used to walk into the Rave clothing store as a man, and since men and women weren't allowed in the same dressing room, demanded to try on clothes and would do so while a long line of women formed waiting for this one person.

Kay, I think that that group of CD's you were talking about would piss me off too. (I am a cd also, mind you.) But they piss you off not because they are cd's, but rather because they are a**holes. Take the whole of the CD population into consideration. How many do you think never even leave the house? Of those that do, how many do you think would try to pass? So buttheads like your Friday group are really a small percentage.

As for the TS who was so rude to you, it just seems to me like the whole house slave/field slave elitism to me, and is wrong for the same reasons.

Oh and that TG's not being honest with each other comment? Dead on.

[Shelly Preston]

The point is the behaviour of of others affects all those who go out in the community

How many here have seen a sign on a doorway only three children allowed at any one time I know I have

This has happend because of the behavior of previous children entering the premises

This is why Kay could not enter her favourite store
Can you imagine if you turn up and get refused entry because of someone else you would not be happy ( for whatever reason )

As for the TS discrimination to CD's
Well unfortunately not everyone is as tolerant as we would like

[charllote34]

Shows you that in every aspect of society , evan in those that you think you will find solice and support there are those who will mess it up for everybody , what a eye opener this thread is .

[MarciManseau]

I had a troubling experience yesterday. On one of the web communities I'm active on, I saw the profile of a young (23 yr old) male to female transsexual from my home town. I sent her a simple greeting saying I grew up in her town and that I was a CD, telling her I would enjoy chatting and finding out what was new in my old hometown. Her response was quite ugly, saying she did not appreciate being associated with me, telling me I needed fashion advice, and that I was this that and the other for my :girly fantasies", and that I should not go out in public wearing "their" clothes....

I was shocked. I was only trying to say hello and strike up a conversation. What surprised me the most was the elitist attitude, the attitude that we (CDs) were somehow inferior to trans people. Its bad enough to feel discrimination from the general populations, but from people that we are suppose t feel something "in common" with... Geeze...

I was angry, hurt, and really confused. I did pull it together and write a response, simply stating that my intent was only social, and that I was sorry she felt so put off by me (a lowly CD) trying to be social. There were a lot of negative, nasty things I could of said, considering she thought herself a real lady (sorry,a real lady would have conducted herself with much more grace), but I decided not to shrink to her level. So much for the holiday spirit, huh?

Has anyone else encountered such attitudes from the GBLT community? Aren't we all in this together? I guess this just proves my theory to be true, that CDs are still the MOST discriminated group. Yo can be gay or transsexual, and have federally protected rights, but none for being a CD. I was really, really disappointed to come across these attitudes from people that I would expect to empathize with "us".

Don't let one bad apple get to you. This trans person thinks you're cute and I love the dress you're wearing in your avatar.

Hugs and just one lil kiss :D Marci :hugs:

[kerrianna]

Let me ask you all a question.

If the TS in her original reply to Alicia had turned her down politely and without personal attack, do you think Alicia would have felt that there was elitism and felt compelled to start this thread?

I can see the arguements from every side here as having some measure of validity for the person who is making them...but wouldn't this have been a non-issue if our young TS had a modicum of social skills and/or respect and compassion?

I thought this was more about rudeness than elitism.

Being honest ISN'T always the best policy. If we were ALL honest all the time here, there would be a lot more broken hearts and flaming...heck, this family would be torn asunder.

Live and let live.

Yes, other people are going to negatively impact your life, but that's what happens. You probably do it to other people without knowing it sometimes. There's often a way around things if you are being a kind and true person.

This is really about treating other people with respect and compassion.

[kristytv]

this whole thread makes me sick as i am a aspiring to be a ts , makes me still want to just be alone and not around anyone

[Julie York]

This thread is hilarious.

I always thought I was a CD, but I now it seems that if I could just dress nicely and pretend to be a convincing woman in public and not attract attention....... I'd be a TS.!!!!!!!

Amazing! Blue eyeshadow....CD. Brown eyeshadow....TS. It all makes sense now!


:D:D


In answer to the original thread starter.
Yes there is descrimination and snobbery and (in my opinion) it is because of the perception of whether you have a choice in your actions. If you have no choice then you were "born that way" and so that's o.k. You're a nice wholesome transexual facing the uphill battle of being accepted by society for who you really are.

If however, you have a choice to present yourself as female (or not).....then you are just a hairy panty pervert.

Hope that clears everything up.

:D

[charllote34]

Kristy, that is not the way some of us want you to feel If we cant be UNITED what chance do we have in the world ???

[Joanne f]

[QUOTE=kay_jessica;1123305]This is so true, and in my experiance on Friday, my world was turned upside down because of those exhibitionist, there behaviour, trying clothes that they weren't going to buy upset the management of my favorite store so much that ALL men dressed as women were barred from the dressing rooms. I pass very well normally, and my mind boggles as to what those 6 got up to to cause such a backlash.

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30857


" love going out and frequently do. I can be found browsing the shops of Oxford, Milton Keynes, Bicester Village, Reading and Luton among others. I love trying on expensive dresses , the assistants are very helpfull in helping to me decide which one suits me . Only wish I could afford to buy them"


so your OK to try on things as long as the sub standard CD'S don't do it as well ??????........Kay ?????? and could you tell me just what color is your kettle????? ...............

might turning your world upside down be a bit of a good thing ??? .........

Nice one Wendy Me lol

[barbra]

i dont know you wish i did,but,i am very sorry this happen to you,now that was very un-called for the way she did that to you.but you need to do like some of the other girls said brush it off and hold your head up and be happy for what you are and what you do.love at it like this you have more girls her that love you and want to help you,stand strong and hang on,we will rise up in front one day soon.one more thing you have a very merry happy holiday and take care of your love ones and you.may the force of love be with you.barbra.:happy:

[AmberTG]

Julie York, you always can find the bright side of these things, I must say! The eye shadow color thing, that is so true in a sarcastic way!:D Funny how people go by simple things like that when, as you tried to point out in your own way, it's so much more than that.
If someone is a "hairy panty fetishist", that's there own deal, and, sense we all have "skeletons in our closet", how can we point the finger and say "I'm better then you because I'm bla bla bla" As my son said to me, "we all have something"
It's much like freedom of speech, I may not like what you have to say, but I will defend your right to say it.

[Christine XX]

It's interesting to me that no one here blames the shop and their SA's for Kays bad experience? A store institutes a policy of being openly biased against TS's and this is OK? And in what's known to be a T* friendly town? I'd be tempted to contact those 20 or so local TS's and begin a letter writing campaign to their headquarters. Imagine if they wouldn't let any black women try on clothing because a few had come in with too much make-up on and smudged some dresses. Where is the outrage???

This stores policy is biased. They have driven a wedge between us, and we are falling for it, and throwing stones at each other instead of seeing the true enemy.

-Christine

[Shelly Preston]

It's interesting to me that no one here blames the shop and their SA's for Kays bad experience? A store institutes a policy of being openly biased against TS's and this is OK? And in what's known to be a T* friendly town? I'd be tempted to contact those 20 or so local TS's and begin a letter writing campaign to their headquarters. Imagine if they wouldn't let any black women try on clothing because a few had come in with too much make-up on and smudged some dresses. Where is the outrage???

This stores policy is biased. They have driven a wedge between us, and we are falling for it, and throwing stones at each other instead of seeing the true enemy.

-Christine

The store policy is based on the experience that have on certain days
Kay has already said she has had no problems if the past

Given proper behavior the shop would have no need to have this policy

[kay_jessica]

[QUOTE=Wendy me;1123382]

Nice one Wendy Me lol

Ah but I did go back and buy it and I wore it on Saturday.....

[Cindy N]

I think it even happens witin our own community depending on your level of CDing.

[Nicki B]

Does anyone really wear hairy panties? :strugglin


Seriously, to go back to the point of the thread, I'm aware in the UK of two groups of very young TSs who have made it their business to attack what they regard as TVs and late-transitioners, they have posted videos on youtube and hosted sites ridiculing well known people.

To me that says more about their own insecurities and unhappiness that it does about their 'victims'. Alicia, just feel sorry for her?

And Kay, as I've said hre before I know TSs who don't pass because of their body shape and live their lives in fear of getting beaten up because of it. You may just want to blend into being just another woman, be it needs to become acceptable everywhere to be seen as trans.. :idontknow:

Trying on clothes and leaving them marked is not something just confined to TVs?

[kay_jessica]

It's interesting to me that no one here blames the shop and their SA's for Kays bad experience? A store institutes a policy of being openly biased against TS's and this is OK? And in what's known to be a T* friendly town? I'd be tempted to contact those 20 or so local TS's and begin a letter writing campaign to their headquarters. Imagine if they wouldn't let any black women try on clothing because a few had come in with too much make-up on and smudged some dresses. Where is the outrage???

This stores policy is biased. They have driven a wedge between us, and we are falling for it, and throwing stones at each other instead of seeing the true enemy.

-Christine

No, I have spoken to the store manager (this after noon). She was very sympathetic. She confirmed that it was a temporary policy resulting from over £600 ($1200) worth of damaged ball gowns from a previous event. An that they weren't deliberately discriminating against transgendered. It was that this time of year they have a lot of "casual" staff and it was easier to instruct then to bar all men from trying on clothes. Apparently, she was made aware of my challenge to the SAs. To quote her, "I told them that in this case, she was almost certainly a transgendered person and would have been Ok". She told me to come back after xmas and the dress I wanted would be "available" in the sale.

[Marla S]

It's interesting to me that no one here blames the shop and their SA's for Kays bad experience? A store institutes a policy of being openly biased against TS's and this is OK?
No it's not ok.
But why should one blame a shop that just does what's done withing the TG community.

This is the shocking part.

As long as there is obviously a policy within the TG community openly biased against TG people, it should be allowed that the shop has one as well.
Same rights for everyone.

[Bethany_Anne_Fae]

Genifer Teal's post #44, just about sums it up for me.

I like having TG friends but it has hurt when some of them went on to transition and left me out of their lives. I know it was becuase I was a CDer only and I accept that but it still hurt.

These days I tend to do my outings by myself. I blend in just fine and enjoy myself in my freedom. Its very self centered of me, but I prefer it that way.

*hugs*
Zara

[SiobhanW]

hairy panty fetishist

Hairy panty fetishists! Those freaks? We fetish hairy panty wearers absolutely refuse to be associated with those people.

[kristytv]

Kristy, that is not the way some of us want you to feel If we cant be UNITED what chance do we have in the world ???
your absoluty right , doesnt change the outlook of some people though , if we cant as a group be united , we cant be to the community as well.

[GypsyKaren]

I'm not sure if it's safe for me to post here, because I'm a post-op and this sure looks like a TS hanging party to me...oh, I'm sorry, WE'RE the ones who are ALWAYS looking down on others, my mistake.

I fail to see how someone not wanting to talk with someone else is discrimination, and it's grossly unfair to attach the actions of one person to an entire community. People are people, everyone's entitled to their own feelings, it's a part of being human, and anyone expecting everyone else to be a Mother Teressa is very naive and in for a big disappointment.

I wish I had a dollar for every insult I get from ANY group of people, crossdressers included, should I then spit out a bunch of hate at everyone else, or judge them while I complain that they're judging me? People like that aren't worth my time or energy so I just move on with a smile on my face, maybe you should try that too.

And now if you'll excuse me, it's time for my noose fitting.

Karen Starlene :star:

[Marla S]

I'm not sure if it's safe for me to post here, because I'm a post-op and this sure looks like a TS hanging party to me...oh, I'm sorry, WE'RE the ones who are ALWAYS looking down on others, my mistake.
Probably we read different threads, can't find the ALWAYS.

[GypsyKaren]

Probably we read different threads, can't find the ALWAYS.

I see one complaint about one incident with one person, followed by a barrage of "yeah, those transsexuals", so yes, it fits.

In any event, the hostility in this thread is going to end immediately or it will be closed.

Karen Starlene :star:

[Julogden]

Hi Alicia,

She was very rude to you for no apparent reason. Sounds like she's probably very insecure with herself. Feel sorry for her, if you can.

And don't let it get to you, you're a good-looking woman.

I've met CD's like that too, so it's not just TS's. Come to think of it, you'll meet people like that in any group, T or not. Fortunately, people like that are a small minority.

On the other side of the argument, we all need to accept the fact that our behavior in public can affect others besides us, both for good and bad, so let's all try to make sure that we're behaving in a manner that commands respect when we're out in public. Let's save the hooker clothes for the privacy of home or for when we're in the company of like-minded people.:2c:

Carol

[Holly]

I see a lot of finger pointing going on here. Why do you suppose that is? Does anyone think that it may be because it is easier to blame others for what happens to us rather than take responsibility ourselves. I am so sorry that the OP's attempt at establishing contact with someone from the gender variant community was unsuccessful. But it happens. However, that is hardly cause to indict the entire TS community as anti-CD or elitist. And just because a few CD's caused someone some inconvenience in a store does not mean that all CD's are rude and inconsiderate. So I offer you an alternative... use your own influence within your own sphere. Adjust your own attitude and do not be so quick to judge another group. Invest some of your own time and try to gain an understanding of those who may see life differently from you. You may just find that there is a learning opportunity for yourself out there just waiting to happen.

[Wendy me]

thank you all for your thoughts and opinions ... as a admin here my job is to do what is right for the forum ... and also all it's members ..........there is no us/them in our forum we are together all different in ways but the same ... as understanding and accidence is why we are here support is a key thing we give and receive ... this thread will now be closed as we need to remember no one person or person's is better than the other .... we are family lets not let this do something we don't want .....