The meaning of CD explained.

[Julie York]

I just had a light bulb moment.


Inspired by Marina Twelve , who posted something that most folk didn't quite get, but it was very good.....:thumbsup:


The reason we are all totally confused by trying to define who were are (CD,TS,TG etc etc) is because there are actually several sliding scales. And once you get your head round one idea you find yourself in a place you didn't expect or understand....and it doesn't fit any neat definition..because you jumped graphs somewhere along the way and didn't realise it.

Like.... (bear with me)

Say for example there was a sliding scale 1 to 10 of just dressing for fun.
1) steal/borrow underwear and get a thrill age 5.........10) Full fetish dress in fetish club


Then say there's a sliding scale of TS

1) steal/borrow clothing for a thrill age 5...................10) Full SRS

But there are several of those graphs with their own motivation from TS to humilation fetish to Cd to passing phase. And as you mature/get bored/explore, it's very likely you will cross from one sliding scale to another and even back again, and become confused as to where you are going and where you thought you were going.

They are all 'valid' and all Cd but it's a multidimensional medium with confusion caused by your motivation changing over time and jumping from one sliding scale to another.



Discuss. Extra marks are giving for showing your workings.etc:D

[trannie T]

When I was in seventh grade we had to diagram sentences. There was a line between noun and verb and angled lines below each for adjectives and adverbs. I got lost somewhere in the area of the adverb phrase. To diagram the gender identification scale would be an immense enterprise. Good luck to any that try.

[Wendy me]

you know scales charts were you fit in to me is pointless ..... well to me any way ... see before i got this whole dressing up thing i thought i was some kind of a weird freak show....then i accepted that it was OK to be a cross dresser ... my comfort place if i need to call me something .... then i thought could there be more to this than being a cd???.....could be......

i am a excessive compulsive compulsive person having found a comfort zone is a huge thing to just say this is me ..... this is who i am ..........for once just letting things be and not looking for a hidden thing ... not pushing the issue any more letting it be what it is is cool ...........for now any way............

[docrobbysherry]

For this thread. As a relatively newbie dresser, I have nothing to contribute.
But I'm extremely interested in posts from experienced members of the club.

I know I'm not going to go TS. I had that fantasy for years, but that one has passed. But where my dressing is likely to lead me next, is a total mystery to me!
RS

[Deborah Jane]

I dunno whether i,m coming or going on the sliding scale!! All i know is i like to dress up, so i do:p Does doing aerobics count as working out Julie?:tongueout

[Jaydee]

Julie,
I could imagine someone who's math ability is better than mine producing some multi-dimensional matrix of all the possible CD/TS/etc. variables. Since we come here, we probably fall somewhere in the matrix's universe. Where ever we found ourselves, our position would change over time. But, what would it prove. The important thing would be to accept who we are and where we fit in the universe.

Just my thoughts, but an interesting question.

Jaydee

[Angie G]

I never had a use for scales of any kind I just want to dress as often and as long as I can I'm a CD I love it it ok with my wife I'm going with the kiss thing Keep it simple stupid.
Angie

[shirley1]

well after being caught at 14 i spent the rest of my life living in the parental home fantasizing about being dressed i used to see a girl say i worked with and imagine i was wearing her clothes for a sexual thrill - now i live alone i dont dress as often as i could but when i do i love it - could this lead to more if i did start going out i think the answer is quite possibly - i think for some people there are certain limits to how far they will go but for others if could go all the way depending on your mindset how far along the scale you are feminine wise mentally and how happy you are as a person in yourself as a male in everyday life as well as whether you are married with kids - it is complicated in the world we live in doesnt have to be shouldnt be but it unfortunanately is so i dont think you can break it down on levels of how far anyone would go i think it depends on what is most important to a person in life ie gettin married having kids pleasing other people leaving you imprint on life ie procreating or just being happy in who you are - i'd settle for the later being happy within myself just seems more important to me now

[Maria2004]

Yep, welcome to the "forum"

":The reason we are all totally confused by trying to define who were are (CD,TS,TG etc etc) is because there are actually several sliding scales. And once you get your head round one idea you find yourself in a place you didn't expect or understand....and it doesn't fit any neat definition..because you jumped graphs somewhere along the way and didn't realise it."

PEACE!!!....out?

[sissystephanie]

If you have read enough psychology and sociology books, as I have over the years, there really is no need of a chart. The lines are pretty well defined.

A "True Crossdresser," which I am, dresses because he/she wants to appear as the other gender. A "Transgender" not only wants to appear as, but also wants to be the other gender, probably without SRS. A "Transexual" wants to live as and actually be the other gender by having SRS.

A lot of the ladies on this Forum refer to themselves as "Trannies." They may well be, as only they know the full extent of their desires. But I believe that most of them are really only "Crossdressers," who have no real desire to be a woman. That is what I am, a MAN who likes to wear feminine clothing. I have just about every type of feminine clothing you can name, except for party or wedding gowns. And I do wear it all. Often only at home, but a lot of times out in public. Tonight I went out to dinner wearing a sparkling gold knit top with ladies tight fitting leather pants. I also had on a bra (I am a Natural 40B), panties and camisole, and a pair of brown pumps with kitten heels. No makeup and no wig. Just a man in female clothing.:happy: to me, that is the epitome of a "Crossdresser."

Sissy/Stephanie

Girl on the outside, man underneath

[shirley1]

If you have read enough psychology and sociology books, as I have over the years, there really is no need of a chart. The lines are pretty well defined.

A "True Crossdresser," which I am, dresses because he/she wants to appear as the other gender. A "Transgender" not only wants to appear as, but also wants to be the other gender, probably without SRS. A "Transexual" wants to live as and actually be the other gender by having SRS.

A lot of the ladies on this Forum refer to themselves as "Trannies." They may well be, as only they know the full extent of their desires. But I believe that most of them are really only "Crossdressers," who have no real desire to be a woman. That is what I am, a MAN who likes to wear feminine clothing. I have just about every type of feminine clothing you can name, except for party or wedding gowns. And I do wear it all. Often only at home, but a lot of times out in public. Tonight I went out to dinner wearing a sparkling gold knit top with ladies tight fitting leather pants. I also had on a bra (I am a Natural 40B), panties and camisole, and a pair of brown pumps with kitten heels. No makeup and no wig. Just a man in female clothing.:happy: to me, that is the epitome of a "Crossdresser."

Sissy/Stephanie

Girl on the outside, man underneath

i live in england and i hate the word trannie or transvestite worse still but that maybe is an old fasioned word maybe termed differently over here - crossdresser i like that termilolagy a lot better sorry about my spellin u can tell us brits dont get the english lessons some of you get but you know what i dont really care right now whether i'm called anything i am what i am ! tv ts frieck sissy (sticks and stones will break your bones but names will never hurt you) old english saying

[1950sclothes]

I never stole clothes but I did borrow them quite a bit. I remember one of my sister's skirts was wearing out faster, because two people were wearing it.

That I did find funny. And yes, it started for me at 5 too. :)

[Carla Mel]

In fact Julie scales do exist. One I don't like is Dr Benjamin's:
http://www.genderpsychology.org/transsexual/benjamin_gd.html
sissystephanie "scale" is a good and much more simple.
But still there is a huge problem in "scaling". We assume they can be some "hierarquy", some advancment in the scale, when in fact there is no competiton, evolution or progress in transgender situations. Sometimes we don't know (or don't want to know) who/what we are, sometimes we struggle with circunstances to get what we need, but usually we are who we are and not exactly in a "scale".
Kisses
Carla

[Suzy Harrison]

No one is 100% male or 100% female and nothing is black or white, just shades of gray.

So when we try to put ourselves in a box ( TV/TS/TG or whatever ).... well it will never work. We are all unique - and we are changing all the time.

We're different to what we were 5 years ago and in 5 years time we'll be different from today.

So just enjoy the ride and don't worry if you don't fix into a box - we're all far too complicated for that.

:hugs:

[Carla Mel]

You are right, but unfortunatly if we want to have some kind of exchange with a language (and then trying to exchange some ideas and thoughts) we need classifications, and definitions.
You know, if we were speaking about monkeys, and birds, even if there are lot of different kind (and even probably each one is unique) we still will define some "specie", so we can use words with some meaning and speak about monkeys or birds.
It's hard to think we are being classified, or putted in a box, yes, but it is for a good cause: speaking about crossdressing.
Kisses
Carla

[Eugenie]

They are all 'valid' and all Cd but it's a multidimensional medium with confusion caused by your motivation changing over time and jumping from one sliding scale to another.
Thank you for this contribution, that's how I feel too...

I think that we have enough discrimination from te outside world (Non CD/TV/TX, etc.)

We should all accept other ways of being "en femme" even if the other person has a different style, goal, perception than ours of x-dressing.

:hugs:
Eugenie

[Ruth]

I don't buy the idea of scales because it implies that there is some kind of dimension to it all. And I don't believe it. We are each who we are.
If you imagine a distance apart on a scale that we may occupy, from one another, or from some "goal" like sex reassignment, then you create a whole lot of unnecessary tensions, jealousies, feelings of inadequacy, or competition. You could manufacture a lot of problems that we have, for the moment, escaped by merely CDing in our own way.

[Veronica 1]

I could see it as a pump curve chart where the horsepower and pump determine how much water is moved at what efficiency. As we take our baby steps from mom's panties to buying our own, learning skills in make-up and hair styles, building a wardrobe that not only feels but looks good, gaining confidence in our abilities we gain horsepower. This keeps the curve going uphill. Some of us only want or can go so far so we run out of power and our curve flattens out. Some of us just keep gaining power until SRS. After that, it is just water under the bridge.

[tiffanyanne_69]

No one is 100% male or 100% female and nothing is black or white, just shades of gray.

So when we try to put ourselves in a box ( TV/TS/TG or whatever ).... well it will never work. We are all unique - and we are changing all the time.

We're different to what we were 5 years ago and in 5 years time we'll be different from today.

So just enjoy the ride and don't worry if you don't fix into a box - we're all far too complicated for that.

:hugs:

You hit the nail on the head Suzy . . . and that response is almost identical to mine in another related thread http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73598&page=2

and you're right, Carla Mel, there is nothing wrong with broad labels . . . my problem is that some people take these way too literally and rigid . . . there is not such thing as 100% man or 100% woman, everyone (and not just us here) is somewhere in the middle of that huge sliding scale.

Embrace and enjoy the beauty of grey.

[MarinaTwelve200]

Yes, there are multiple "sliding scales" one for each condition that motivates CDing. At one level it is not all that complicated, there are likely less than 10 of them (Thrill seeking, Fetish, TS, etc.) But we have two problems First of all we might be on TWO or more scales, like I am on the "escapist" scale with a bit of the S/M scale thrown in.

The second problem is that we are on the inside looking out, and from this POV several of the "scales" or "conditions" may look alike or are easily confused with each other. Very strong urges and emotions DRIVE the CD inpulse. And these are often strong enough to cloud our thinking or self observation---For example does one REALLY "want to be a girl" (as in TS) or is being a girl the only way one knows how to get a certian "Thrill"?---and "Wants" to be a girl for THAT reason instead?----Two drastically different underlying drivers, but very hard to differentiate from a personal POV. It takes a lot of detailed self anyalisis combined with a knowledge of the several options available. ie. If you dont know about any other causes for CD save for TS or gayness, for example, any you KNOW you aint one of them, then total confusion can be the result.

Its important to know all the options is any self analysis is to be successful.

Also when you use a term (TG, TS, etc) be sure to DEFINE it for your readers and listeners---what YOU say it is, so everyone is on the same page. Labels DO help us think and communicate, but we have to let others know what we MEAN by those we use. Remember, we cannot THINK about a concept and draw any conclusions if we DONT have a NAME(label) for it--thats just the way the brain works.

[Deanna2]

I'm not confused. The clothes I have are mine and I like to wear them.

[robin247]

Very interesting thoughts on crossdressing.

[Carla Mel]

Marina Twelve: "For example does one REALLY "want to be a girl" (as in TS) or is being a girl the only way one knows how to get a certian "Thrill"?---and "Wants" to be a girl for THAT reason instead?----Two drastically different underlying drivers, but very hard to differentiate from a personal POV"


Your image makes me remember the steak story in "the Matrix". The Judas of the movie don't care eating a perfect steak even if it is not a real steak, as soon as the steak-eating episode in his mind and experience is perfect.
You are right from an external point of view you can make the difference between the real steak and the dreamed steak, you can even divide the will to be a girl and be thrilled, and the thrill making you look after dressing as a girl.
But as in the egg vs hen story, and as in the steak story, the fact that from a personal POV there is no possibility to determine what is the cause and what is the effect, in thrill vs dressing, does not matter.
To say that they are two drastically different drivers, is the same thing that to say the artificial steak is diferent from the real one, or that it makes a difference if the hen comes first vs if the egg comes first: The only "drastic" difference is FROM AN EXTERNAL observer POW.
And if there is NO difference from an internal point of view, do you think it is a "problem" for a cd not to know if she dress and get thrilled (dress cause, thrill consequence) or dress because of the thrill (thrill cause, dress consequence).
Perhaps it is better for us to "confuse" the begining and the end and not see the difference, or the relation cause/effect between dressing and thrill, and perhaps when we confuse it, it is not because we don't have the ability to have an external POW on ourselves, but because it makes the life easier to live. As for Judas eating the steak, it is easier just to eat the steak and ignore if it's real.

Kisses
Carla

[Valeria]

Marina Twelve: "For example does one REALLY "want to be a girl" (as in TS) or is being a girl the only way one knows how to get a certian "Thrill"?---and "Wants" to be a girl for THAT reason instead?----Two drastically different underlying drivers, but very hard to differentiate from a personal POV"

You are right from an external point of view you can make the difference between the real steak and the dreamed steak, you can even divide the will to be a girl and be thrilled, and the thrill making you look after dressing as a girl.
But as in the egg vs hen story, and as in the steak story, the fact that from a personal POV there is no possibility to determine what is the cause and what is the effect, in thrill vs dressing, does not matter.
You are assuming that receiving a "thrill" is part of the experience in both cases (either you dress to get a thrill, or you dress for other reasons and get thrilled anyway). I don't believe Marina is making that assumption (nor should she). She is differentiating between someone that wants to be a girl, and someone that wants the thrills they can get from impersonating a girl.

I don't receive any "thrill" from pulling on a t-shirt or sweater and jeans (which is how I most commonly dress) - it's just my clothing, which I wear to keep me warm, and because people will stare at me otherwise.

[Carla Mel]

You are assuming that receiving a "thrill" is part of the experience in both cases (either you dress to get a thrill, or you dress for other reasons and get thrilled anyway). I don't believe Marina is making that assumption (nor should she). She is differentiating between someone that wants to be a girl, and someone that wants the thrills they can get from impersonating a girl.

I don't receive any "thrill" from pulling on a t-shirt or sweater and jeans (which is how I most commonly dress) - it's just my clothing, which I wear to keep me warm, and because people will stare at me otherwise.

I understood Marina makes both diferences.
First she makes diferences between diferent reasons of cd, for example having a thrill, or fetish, or escape etc....
And then she makes a second difference once you think about the reason why you crossdress, in your case not the thrill but something else, "being warm", are you warm because you cd or do you cd to have warm. In the case of somebody having the thrill, does she has the thril because she cd or does she cd because of the thrill, in the case of a fetishist, has she the fetishist arousal because she cd or does she cd to have a fetichist arousal etc etc...
I personnally think there is a big deal in differentiating the cause and the effect, that my statement, and then about the different reasons to cd, yours, mine, fetichist "warm", thrill whatever, it can of course allow anybody to "classify" cd in different types, but I personnally think we are so different. Marina spoke about "scales" and even said we can be in differnt scales, or moving, so is it possible to define "classes" or cd? I understand you probably are a different cd, but I think we have much in common (i'm assuming you are a cd).
Kisses
Carla

[Valeria]

I personnally think there is a big deal in differentiating the cause and the effect, that my statement, and then about the different reasons to cd, yours, mine, fetichist "warm", thrill whatever, it can of course allow anybody to "classify" cd in different types, but I personnally think we are so different. Marina spoke about "scales" and even said we can be in differnt scales, or moving, so is it possible to define "classes" or cd? I understand you probably are a different cd, but I think we have much in common (i'm assuming you are a cd).
I'm a post-op trans woman - everything from my birth certificate to my driver's license says female, and all of my professors, classmates, and coworkers (and most of my friends) just think I'm a normal woman (albeit a lesbian one). I wear women's clothing because that's what women do. For me, crossdressing would be wearing men's clothing, and while I do have some gender-neutral (i.e. "men's") t-shirts, that doesn't really count.

So no, I wouldn't personally consider myself a crossdresser (though some people who belong to this forum would label me as such).

[shirley1]

Yes, there are multiple "sliding scales" one for each condition that motivates CDing. At one level it is not all that complicated, there are likely less than 10 of them (Thrill seeking, Fetish, TS, etc.) But we have two problems First of all we might be on TWO or more scales, like I am on the "escapist" scale with a bit of the S/M scale thrown in.

The second problem is that we are on the inside looking out, and from this POV several of the "scales" or "conditions" may look alike or are easily confused with each other. Very strong urges and emotions DRIVE the CD inpulse. And these are often strong enough to cloud our thinking or self observation---For example does one REALLY "want to be a girl" (as in TS) or is being a girl the only way one knows how to get a certian "Thrill"?---and "Wants" to be a girl for THAT reason instead?----Two drastically different underlying drivers, but very hard to differentiate from a personal POV. It takes a lot of detailed self anyalisis combined with a knowledge of the several options available. ie. If you dont know about any other causes for CD save for TS or gayness, for example, any you KNOW you aint one of them, then total confusion can be the result.

Its important to know all the options is any self analysis is to be successful.

Also when you use a term (TG, TS, etc) be sure to DEFINE it for your readers and listeners---what YOU say it is, so everyone is on the same page. Labels DO help us think and communicate, but we have to let others know what we MEAN by those we use. Remember, we cannot THINK about a concept and draw any conclusions if we DONT have a NAME(label) for it--thats just the way the brain works.


i tell you what it does my head in ! i have sat in a bar about 5 years ago having booked an appointment with a gender clinic looking around at women who i've always been attracted too thinking i could be one of you in a few years time - 3 days before the the appointment backed out ! 5 years on i am fairly sure i am not ts but thats how confused you can get ! the problem to me now seems quite simple - there are some people in society that do quite obviously need to change gender - but for most of us ie cds its society thats the problem - womem can pretty much dress how they want to within reason ie masculine or feminine - but men cant unless you are totally brave like some of you are on here i am not ! - look forget anything else and just tell me this why is the no female equivalent of a transvestite - in england its the same thing as a crossdresser - its quite simple the way i see it women can wear male clothes in everyday life so - you therefore cannot call a majority of any amount of people anything ie label them - the majority is classed as normality - but for us guys its different a guy wanting or needing to dress femininely is unusual - therefore you need a name for it - their has to be something in it ie given the same freedom as women would we even need a forum like this !

[kym2004]

The human mind i think has always tried to define all of its surroudings in the simplest and most absolute of terms, mostly due to social pressures. It wants to make everthing black and white. When it is faced with a situation that is not absolute it has a tendencie to make up labels that will form absolutes. Like all good computors this creates a conflict of logic. This is of course just my very basics thoughts on the matter.