Food for thought.

[Hana22]

I've been around here for a few days now and I have noticed alot of threads about people feeling akward or scared about going out in public dressed. It's sort of odd for open minded people to worry about such things as passing or being exposed. Also being harassed and laughed at seems to be a common complaint.

I'm a younger CDer at age 22 and I have to say that you all are being entirely too worried about the whole thing. I've been exposed and even yelled at and even lost good friends over my habbit but I don't directly hide it from anyone. I don't have a problem dealing with this kind of thing because it happens regardless of how you are dressed anyways. I've been steped on beaten up and harassed all while in male mode also. If you go out in public regardless of dress you are taking a risk. Dressing as a girl in certain places may hold more of a risk but that is true to all things. In other words go to a GWAR concert and expect to be stepped on, go to the supermarket as a girl expect an older man or women to cause you trouble. On the other hand dressed as a girl or at least wearing a skirt at the GWAR concert most would probably not notice or care. It's all relative. I find most people or situations fall into three catagories.

1. Simply doesn't care. These are the people too self absorbed and careless that they wouldn't notice you unless you smacked them in the forehead. Also in this category are the accepting people that will be your friend. These people are cool.

2. Those that are as scared of you as you are of them. These are the elderly couple who realize what you are and run away. These can be rather funny to watch but don't bother them or give chase.

3. The ones that feel it is their right and livelyhood to police the entire world on what they feel is decent and none decent. These ones will find something to get into regardless of the situation. They purpsoefully look for a cause or a rant or a dangerous situation to get into because their lives are very boring and they feel the need to spice it up at your expense. These people should be avoided but beware they will find a way to get into something with someone regardless of your evasion skills and manor of dress.

I've noticed the demograph here appears to be males who are thirty and over. I'm younger as I said and I feel that some of you are sort of behind the times. I went to school with four open crossdressers and who knows how many gays and bis. I currently work with two crossdressers and about five gay people. I "read" men in public all the time but never say anything. I think the world is changing for the better and I hope those of you posting these "I got harassed" threads don't let a few bad apples ruin it for you. The world is full of bad people and they are bad no matter what way you are dressed.

[Nikki A.]

Some of what you say may be true. People don't always notice or care. BUT for those of us who are older and have families that depend on us, being open about it could cost us our jobs, and trouble for those who are dear to us.
If I was your age now, and not with a family depending on me I may feel as you do. As for myself I really don't care what others think about me dressing but I have to be discreet to protect my family.

[shirley1]

i think the problem for me and a lot of people is the fact theyre still i the closet - if my few friends and small family knew i wouldnt give a damn what people on the streets said or thought - but when your in the closet you have that extra burden that your betraying people close to you at least thats i how i feel - i have been targeted by yobs (young teenagers boys mainly) just being in male mode so you can forgive me for wondering what backlash i'd get if i was wearing a dress - but like i said for me its the fact that knowone knows about my cding and to go out and get a slandering from people on top of that would would just send my paraonia levels soaring - put it another way if i walk down the road dressed as i normally am and get grief off anyone i can tell people ie friends and family about it for moral support - but if i get it going out dressed and still in the closet how the hell can i mention it to anyone i know - you are totally isolated in what you are doing and then live in fear of people close to you finding out - its a catch 22 situation !

[Stephenie S]

I think the point of the first post was that most people just don't care what you wear. This is something I have been trying to get across since I joined this forum. Most people JUST DON'T CARE.

Those of us who have actually gone out and experienced this have found that 99.9% of the fear you have is all in your head. Go where you want, do what you want, dress how you want. It's a free country, as we are wont to say.

If you dress with some degree of appropriatness, with some degree of good taste, if you comport yourself with dignity and grace, people won't see you at all. Those that do will leave you alone because they 1.) don't care, 2.) are too busy with their own life, 3.) are too polite to make a fuss.

Stay away from danger areas like bars or anywhere alcohol and testosterone are rampant. Don't go anywhere you wouldn't want your sister or mother to go alone, don't go out alone after dark, and you will be fine.

Really it's kind of egotistical of you to think that how YOU dress is that important to the rest of the world. You aren't that important. Get over yourself.

Lovies,
Stephenie

[shirley1]

I think the point of the first post was that most people just don't care what you wear. This is something I have been trying to get across since I joined this forum. Most people JUST DON'T CARE.

Those of us who have actually gone out and experienced this have found that 99.9% of the fear you have is all in your head. Go where you want, do what you want, dress how you want. It's a free country, as we are wont to say.

If you dress with some degree of appropriatness, with some degree of good taste, if you comport yourself with dignity and grace, people won't see you at all. Those that do will leave you alone because they 1.) don't care, 2.) are too busy with their own life, 3.) are too polite to make a fuss.

Stay away from danger areas like bars or anywhere alcohol and testosterone are rampant. Don't go anywhere you wouldn't want your sister or mother to go alone, don't go out alone after dark, and you will be fine.

Really it's kind of egotistical of you to think that how YOU dress is that important to the rest of the world. You aren't that important. Get over yourself.

Lovies,
Stephenie


i dont want to take over anothers thread but as someone who hasnt been out dressed yet what is appropriate dress ? most of the clothes i have are aimed at 20 somethings but i am 30 something - i could go out dressed as a nun and probably have no problems passing but that wouldnt be dressing the way i want to look - if its a free country why couldnt you wear anything that anyone wears regarldless of age culture ect - i think thats the problem for a lot of cds including myself you dont really know whats appropriate

[Samantha43]

When I was in my early 20's, I was much more bold than I am now. There was much less to lose. I am now in my mid 40's, have a wife, kids and a good job. Being a husband and father makes you think a little differently. There are more important things in life than just "me" now. Instead of just effecting me alone, it effects my wife and kids. I would hate for my kids to be harrased at school for something I did. You know how cruel kids can be.

Many of us dads are well known and respected in our communities. We coach youth sports, are Scout leaders, are church leaders and are very involved with our kids, their peers and their schools. How do you think parents would react knowing their kid's coach is a cross dresser?

If I was to go out and be seen by someone I know, the consequenses would be terrible for my family.

I remember being young and bold. Now I am old and wise. In an ideal world, people would not be judgemental. In the real world, they are.

:2c:

[Hana22]

I've seen some CDers that didn't even come close to passing. Wear what you like and have fun. Most peope won't bother you. I've gone everywhere dressed as a girl and my style tends to be very very loud. I've never had anyone do anything that was directly related to me being a man in girls clothes. If I go into a supermarket in my typical gothic mode of dress people will stare not because I am a man in girls clothes but because I am diffrent then the norm. Most won't notice I am a man and if they suspect me they will fear I am really just a manly girl and will not openly confront me for fear of being rude and beyond the norm themselves.

For those of you that dress on the conservative side they won't see you at all. Honestly how often do you go into a place in public and stare at someone enough to notice what they are? More often then not you only see their backs or a glimpse of their faces because you did not go there to watch them. Also people are ugly as sin. I've seen women with stronger beards then mine, girls with more hair on their arms then me, girls with broader shoulders and deeper voices and rougher skin then mine, six packs, unibrows, the list goes on. All real girls and no one said anything to them. I've seen men wearing pink tutus and leather hats, an elderly man that forgot his pants, old ladies without their dentures, the list goes on. The world is a diverse place and most people won't think twice or even care as to what gender you really are.

My point is if you can and if your able go out and have a good time. Don't let people scare you into a closet. Everyone else in the world has a right to express their own style of dress and so do we!

[Roberta Marie]

[QUOTE=Hana22;1135456]I've been around here for a few days now and I have noticed alot of threads about people feeling akward or scared about going out in public dressed. It's sort of odd for open minded people to worry about such things as passing or being exposed. Also being harassed and laughed at seems to be a common complaint.

I'm a younger CDer at age 22 and I have to say that you all are being entirely too worried about the whole thing.


Hana,

In so many ways, I admire and I'm envious of your generation. When I was your age, we would talk about our parents' "hangups". I have told my kids (some older than you, some younger than you) that I am proud of them for doing things that I never would have dreamed of because of my "hangups".

I cannot speak for others of my generation, although I suspect that my hangups are not much different from others. I recently came out of the closet to my wife after 30 years of marriage. One of the things that she told me after coming out to her was that if I had come out to her earlier in our marriage, she would have been much less accepting.

After spending so long in the isolation of the closet, many of the fears, whether justified or not, linger. Even though my brain tells me that this is who I am, my subconsious says "freak". When my brain says that I have nothing to be ashamed of, my subconsious says "hide". When my brain says walk proud, my subconsious "disgusting".

Many of us do have some legitimate fears, though, brought about by the hangups of those that we work for and with. Many of our employers are of our generation or the generation before ours, that would not understand our crossdressing. Coming all of the way out of the closet could cause us to lose jobs and income.

Bobbi

[Jamie14]

Interesting ideas, I tell you being in your 30's changes things- more responsibility, usually family with kids, serious career, etc. It's great to be cavalier about things but it's not always reasonable in terms of risk. I have been out several times and only had one negative experience- didn't let it stop me from going bck out there- but I'm cautious.

BYW, isn't GWAR one of those crazy, wild bands most people have never heard of? I had a roomie once i think tht listened to them. Wearing a skirt is okay at a GWAR concert? Probably not one of my skirts:happy:...Jamie

[Hana22]

I made this thread to encourage those that can come out to come out. Not really to debate reasons for hiding it. When I was first coming out I needed some coaxing. Luckily I had a very good friend that went out with me my first few times. She told me to hold her hand and no matter what anyone did she would be there with me. I've seen a few people here that looked like they could use that help also. Since I can't go and hold these peoples hands I made the above to make them feel better about it.

P.S. GWAR is a crazy band and yes a skirt there worked fine for me.

[Jennifer Brooks]

Yep! Being older and having a family changes everything. My job is also an issue. If people in my family (Mom and siblings) knew, it would really change all my accomplishments. If I was younger (20's), things would be a lot different and I would do what I wanted. I can't now and that is probably why I am in the closet (Probably? LOL!). I'm happy that you posted your thoughts on this topic. Many of us older CDers wish we had the freedom as you do but we don't. Keep posting girl! Hugs and Kisses..................:<3:

[sandra-leigh]

Many of us dads are well known and respected in our communities. We coach youth sports, are Scout leaders, are church leaders and are very involved with our kids, their peers and their schools. How do you think parents would react knowing their kid's coach is a cross dresser?


Kid's coach being a crossdresser wouldn't necessarily be a problem in itself, but it would give that one extra piece of camel's-back straw to the parent who thought you weren't making little Johny or Suzie enough of a star. Kids sports seems to magnify the chips on a lot of parents' shoulders... When it comes to kids sports, being fair-minded, sportsman-like, polite, a good teacher, talented, able to see potential... can all become irrelevant to the parent who wants his/her kid to be the next sports wonder of the world.


On the other hand, in the USA, kid's scout-leader being a crossdresser is likely to get you tossed out of Scouts pronto, for being a "bad moral influence", even if every single kid and parent signed a petition asking that you be kept on. Scouting USA is a private organization, practically immune from anti-discrimination laws, courts have ruled several times. It's different in Canada: anti-discrimination laws apply to private organizations unless they can prove that the variety of discrimination is germane to their existence (e.g., you get your religion classes taught by a member of your religion), so there are openly gay scout and girl-guide leaders in Canada, and it doesn't seem to have done any harm (Scouting Canada didn't even try to block the integration, and have said a few times that it is a complete non-issue with them.)

Churches... I was going to make a joke or two but there's too much risk of someone or other complaining about me stereotyping :(

[Sandra]

Many of us dads are well known and respected in our communities. We coach youth sports, are Scout leaders, are church leaders and are very involved with our kids, their peers and their schools. How do you think parents would react knowing their kid's coach is a cross dresser?

If I was to go out and be seen by someone I know, the consequenses would be terrible for my family.





My SO helps out at a local Brownie unit and has had know problems from the parents at all.

Are you 100&#37; sure about the consequenses if you was seen? We was concerned as to what the reaction would be, we've had one couple not bother with us any more so obviously they weren't real freinds in the first place.


You can get out into the real world and have know problems Nigella has been 24/7 for the past 3 years she was 43 when this happened, we have a good circle of friends and what family know are ok with her. As for the work situation she presented as a cder for the interview and got the job.


I know this is easy to say as we have already gone through this and came out the other end but, a lot of fear is in the mind of the person themselves, and if they can just let go a little then they can enjoy being a cder a little more in the open.

[kay_jessica]

i dont want to take over anothers thread but as someone who hasnt been out dressed yet what is appropriate dress ? most of the clothes i have are aimed at 20 somethings but i am 30 something - i could go out dressed as a nun and probably have no problems passing but that wouldnt be dressing the way i want to look - if its a free country why couldnt you wear anything that anyone wears regarldless of age culture ect - i think thats the problem for a lot of cds including myself you dont really know whats appropriate

You have to apply a little common sense and intelligence as to what is appropriate. We have as males seen a 40/50f year old woman dressed up to the nines in 20/30 fashion and referred to them as mutton dressed as lambs and WE LAUGH. Those ARE GGs. The point is and it does not take a lot of commons sense to seen this, that if you as a 30 year old bloke go out in 20s clubbing fashion whilst shopping in a mal YOU ARE GOING TO BE LAUGHED AT. Are you blind, just walk down a mal an seen what most people are wearing for that type of activity. Having said that you can wear what you like at an LGBT club and most won't care about you as a person, they might deride your dress sense if you go in wearing a Basque dress 3 sizes to small for you that you are falling out of. But that is just one of the gross things one has to put up with in a LGBT club.

Hugs

Kay

[Mitch23]

I have two friends who are real girls who fall into the category of inappropriate dress. one wears a long fur coat, jet black dyed hair and lots of eye makeup, the other has a slightly boyish appearance and wears lots of heavy makeup. Both receive abuse and are often called trannies or drag queens

mitch

[Joanne f]

Most people that don`t come out or go out have a very good reason for it and they care about those reasons, wife's ,family, jobs,where you live all play a part in it, it is all to easy to say i do it therefore so can you everybody's situation is different but in the long run it is people like you that will make it easier for all to do it one day i hope.

joanne

[Nicole Erin]

BYW, isn't GWAR one of those crazy, wild bands most people have never heard of? I had a roomie once i think tht listened to them. Wearing a skirt is okay at a GWAR concert? Probably not one of my skirts:happy:...Jamie

At a GWAR concert, you could go stark naked if you wanted, no one would notice cause no one else would be there. GWAR would just be happy for the one ticket they did sell. They suck really bad and are about 15 years outdated. :rolleyes:

ANYways - my reason for less boldness is I have a kid and would not want him harassed at school. Also, if I get read, yeah people might laugh but what bothers me is people's retarded questions about why I do this. Before my kid was in school yeah I didn't care and would pretty much go wherever dressed.

My wife and I have crappy jobs so even if either of us were fired, it would not be hard to replace our jobs. Our crappy jobs wouldn't care if I was in a dress on my own time.

As far as age and acceptance, there just isn't any correlation. There are older and younger people who hate or accept CD's. Make no mistake, age doesn't matter.

[Hana22]

Here is something else to consider. What if little john's father Bill does it too? The world is changing. I work with a lady who's birth name is Beau but she goes by Molly. No one asks and no one cares. One of my friends has a mom and a mom (both real females). She doesn't think twice about it and neither does anyone else. She leads a perfectly normal life and I even found acceptance from her family where I didn't with mine. The world isn't what it use to be. Things like this are getting less and less tabu everyday and if we hide and refuse to push the envelope we will cease the wonderful change.

Basically what you have to determine is just how important this is to you. For me it's who I am and I can't stop being that. Having said that I realize children for me is out of the question.

It kind of sounds like alot of you may use CDing as an outlet for the expectations society has of you. Example Bill the scout leader a.k.a. super dad leads a scout troop, votes every year, goes to all of his childrens school events, washes the truck every other weekend, and so on. When no one is looking Bill is tired of conforming and decides to wear his wifes clothes one day as a way to rebel. It makes him feel good so he keeps doing it. Getting more attached to it but, not so much to being a woman but attached to doing the "wrong" thing. This is all purely theoretical and not directed at anyone specific but, it could hold some water for some of the closet CDers out there.

If you do want to go out and you do not want anything bad to happen maybe consider traveling one town over? To a bigger place, if you are seen just deny it. Even going a few towns over is doable. I'm about an hour from my states capital which is a big city. It's entirely doable to on a day off drive there change into Hana go out have a good time and go back home. If someone sees you claim it wasn't you. If you worried someone may see your car leave then get a friend to go spend the day with you and drive. There are ways to fit CDing into your life if you truely want to go out.

In a town a few hours away all made up and pretty do you really think someone is gonna get a good enough veiw of you to expose you? If so you should really wear more makeup :D


At a GWAR concert, you could go stark naked if you wanted, no one would notice cause no one else would be there. GWAR would just be happy for the one ticket they did sell. They suck really bad and are about 15 years outdated. :rolleyes:


Then why do they keep selling out the Va beach amphitheater everytime they show up?:love:

[Nicole Erin]

Then why do they keep selling out the Va beach amphitheater everytime they show up?:love:

Well since the state of VA is about 15 - 20 years behind the rest of the world, they are right in time with with the outdated GWAR ;)

An yways Hana22, we all do say thanks for the encouragement :) It is true that people have more freedom to self-express. I imagine say 40 or so years ago it must have been REALLY rough for GLBT.

Someday maybe our grandchildren will have next to no concern for what one wears.

Oh and yeah - no matter what someone wears or does, someone else will have a problem with it. I still can't get over these morons who let their pants sag.

[MarciManseau]

I was far more harrassed and abused before I went full time because I looked like a "Faggot, girly man, sissy..." You know the list. Now some of the macho types that felt they had to make comments, hold doors for me or smile at me.

A lot depends on how you look as a woman, how you behave, and how you react if people look at you and wonder.


Hugs, Marci :hugs: