Evolution of relationships

[heidi99]

Since my divorce was final about 1 1/2 years ago, I've been doing some thinking about the state of relationships in America, and wanted some other CDers' opinions as well as those of any GG's that might want to weigh in. I'm hoping that my comments will sound objective and not bitter. As a matter of explaining my thoughts, I think it is important to state that my marriage ended because she violated my trust (by stealing from me); it didn't have anything to do with my dressing.

I haven't had that many relationships, but prior to the marital one, I had never told about my dressing. I decided I had to do it differently this time around, and told her about it within the first month after I had met her. I remain convinced that it is the best way to begin a relationship (giving the other person all the data so that they can make an informed decision.) There were warning signs about her less-than-honorable character that I chose to ignore, and I take responsibility for the (high-debt) situation I'm in.

So I've been examining why relationships (those with SO's) seem to be so important to me. For me (with a few exceptions), there seem to be reasonably close facsimilies for most positive aspects of relationships. And while I can remember some positive aspects I enjoyed during the marriage, the flood of negative crap I had to deal with kind of tips the scale and makes me wonder exactly WHY I need to be with someone. Or perhaps it is still too soon after my ordeal. I'm healing financially just fine, but I fear that the innocence she stole will take quite a bit longer to heal.

My biggest fear is that I am not alone in my wonderment. Relationships and marriage have been taking a beating for the past 35 years. The statistics about the divorce rate and the average length of marriages are quite worrisome. Over and over in ads on dating sites I see the phrase, "I don't NEED a ___, but would like someone..." Often, when a person no longer feels needed or appreciated, he usually doesn't hang around much longer. Could dressing perhaps be an attempt to help one feel better about not being needed/appreciated (kind of a do-for-myself attitude?) It certainly is easier to dress one's own body in attractive clothing that to ask the SO to dress up the way we want them to and run the risk of feeling guilty just for asking.

Does anyone else kind of feel this way? Hopefully I haven't offended anyone. If I have, it was truly unintentional.

Heidi99

[vivianann]

you hit the nail on the head, that is exactly what happened to me in my marriage, I was nieve, and she took advantage of it and destroyed me in everyway possible, and left me homeless and 150,000 in debt that I did not know about, it took me 5 yrs to get rid of those debts, I am now debt free and will never go into debt for anything. I am lonly now and I do miss having someone to talk to, but I would rather be alone than to be abused. I am afraid of entering into another marriage because I do not want to go through what I went through when I was married, I am a very kind and gentle person, and it has been to my disadvantage, because the mean peaple see an easy target. when someone comes off as too sweet to me I wonder what they are planning to do to me. that is how I see it. that is one of the reasons why I am choosing to live as a woman 24/7 while I am single so I wont have to fight that uphill battle after a marriage. I know the chances of finding a woman that will accept me as a feminine male is next to 0, but I am still hoping that will happen.

[docrobbysherry]

I had a similar situation to yours. Separated about 8 years, divorced for 3.
In that time, I've been very careful with who I've dated, and still been unhappy with the women! Especially the Americans!
It seems I have now become my own girlfriend. For many of the reasons u mention in your thread! I'm very worried about the consequences of what I'm doing. On the other hand, I've never been happier then I am now with a woman! And Sherry just gets better and better. This CDing is really a bizarre developement for me! And very addictive!
But I'm sure my situation is unique. I'm pretty sure!
RS

[vivianann]

Sherry, you have summed it up, vivian is like having a girlfriend that is a part of me. :hugs:

[Joni T]

I was married for 7 1/2 years the first time around. Cd'ing was not the reason for the divorce. She didn't know about it and I didn't know enough about it. Just had our 21st anniv last November with wife #2. Is it a happy marriage? In a nut shell.............NO. It's not a bad marriage, just not a happy one. It's more a marriage for convenience and economics. Sex is almost non-existant, passion is little. I had a birthday (#53) 2 days ago and I literally got nothing from my wife, not even a f***ing card. I told her that it was ok, just let me dress and go out a couple of evenings. Well I'm still stuck here in drab as well. She knows about the cd'ing and is ok with it. Supportive but not enthusiastic. Would I ever get married again if I wound up single for some reason? Absolutely NO F***ING WAY ! ! ! I really envy you single guys (oops......gals). I'd love to be able to dress whenever I wanted to and go out where/whenever I wanted. This may sound bad but if something happened to my wife I honestly don't think I'd miss her. Maybe that's just selfish on my part, maybe I'm tired of net being able to dress as often as I'd like, I just dunno. Please don't recommend counciling...........we tried that about 15 years ago and it didn't help much.
Anyway, the wife goes back to work on Wednesday and I on Thursday. Maybe I can convince her that I need to go out tomorrow night and again all day Wednesday. I doubt she'll go for it but I'm gonna' try anyway. Maybe I'm the one who's confused. If someone invented a pill that would make all these cd'ing urges and thoughts disappear I'd kill to be first in line to take the pill.
Well anyway, that's about all fo now. Thanks for letting me vent.
Luv You All,
Joni

[Mitch23]

I have a lovely wife who is strong sensible and loyal. Now there are aspects of our relationship that I would like to change but nothing is ever perfect and life is what you make of it.

I thought there was no way she would cope if she found out about my CD. Well she did and she has coped. Initially hated it but slowly mellowing and still loves me despite my 'kink'. Where it goes I dont know but there is no way I would want to go through life and be able to dress when I want but without her. So we have to compromise and make it work. And I've had no opportunity to dress for 2 weeks now because of the holidays - and i hate it and I'm grumpy and she doesnt understand but I know I'll get through it.

Mitch

[Sally24]

Every relationship is different. I've been married to my wife just shy of 30 years now. She's known about the dressing from the very beginning, although what my dressing entails has changed a great deal in the last few years. We are each others best friends and I couldn't imagine life without her. That being said, things are not perfect. She has problems with money that cause us difficulties off and on. And we have different personality issues that clash, but all these things are workable.

Human beings are social creatures and most of us need close contact with another to be able to express our emotions and needs. Not everyone has that desire. I think you will recover from this experience but life changes you and you can't go back to how you were before. Good Luck!

[Lisa Rose]

I wish I knew how to do multiple quotes because each of you have made very good points. Especially Vivian. A good friend told me once, "You have to learn to live with yourself before you can live with someone else."

After 2 marriages, first one 5 yrs, second one over 20 yrs, I'm finally 'learning to live with myself'. It's not easy at times and I would love to be in a loving relationship but living with myself has made me smarter, perhaps too cautious, but it's much easier than tolerating a bad relationship. Like Vivian said, I too have become my best friend.

[MJ]

=vivianann;1140652]you hit the nail on the head, that is exactly what happened to me in my marriage, I was nieve, and she took advantage of it and destroyed me in everyway possible, and left me homeless and 150,000 in debt that I did not know about, it took me 5 yrs to get rid of those debts, I am now debt free and will never go into debt for anything. I am lonly now and I do miss having someone to talk to, but I would rather be alone than to be abused. I am afraid of entering into another marriage because I do not want to go through what I went through when I was married, I am a very kind and gentle person, and it has been to my disadvantage, because the mean peaple see an easy target. when someone comes off as too sweet to me I wonder what they are planning to do to me. that is how I see it. that is one of the reasons why I am choosing to live as a woman 24/7 while I am single so I wont have to fight that uphill battle after a marriage. I know the chances of finding a woman that will accept me as a feminine male is next to 0, but I am still hoping that will happen.
i am like vivianann execpt the debt :-
i was married for 21.5 years and it was my feminine issues that ended the relationship .. but it the hurtful things she is doing now that hurts the most . i fear any type of a relationship now has i don't want to get hurt again or play these stupid games. but i fear being along is not an answer ..pittyful bunch ant we ..

i often wonder if we just ask our S.O to dress a certain way for us would we have started to dress our-self's .. i think we still would ..

[heidi99]

You know what? All of you that I've found here are pure gold!


you hit the nail on the head, that is exactly what happened to me in my marriage, I was nieve, and she took advantage of it and destroyed me in everyway possible, and left me homeless and 150,000 in debt that I did not know about, it took me 5 yrs to get rid of those debts, I am now debt free and will never go into debt for anything. I am lonly now and I do miss having someone to talk to, but I would rather be alone than to be abused. I am afraid of entering into another marriage because I do not want to go through what I went through when I was married, I am a very kind and gentle person, and it has been to my disadvantage, because the mean peaple see an easy target. when someone comes off as too sweet to me I wonder what they are planning to do to me. that is how I see it. that is one of the reasons why I am choosing to live as a woman 24/7 while I am single so I wont have to fight that uphill battle after a marriage. I know the chances of finding a woman that will accept me as a feminine male is next to 0, but I am still hoping that will happen.

Viv, you and I seem to be QUITE alike. The end of '09 will be when I am finally done paying off debts. I am hopeful, and do try to meet people, but the whole experience taught me to LISTEN to that little voice inside me. For 38 years I did so, and led a pretty quiet (and kind of lonely) existence. Wanting to believe in her and "make everyone else wrong" led to where I am now. No problem, I will survive and thrive. Also, I'll be sending you a PM here in a little while.


It seems I have now become my own girlfriend. For many of the reasons u mention in your thread! I'm very worried about the consequences of what I'm doing. On the other hand, I've never been happier then I am now with a woman! And Sherry just gets better and better. This CDing is really a bizarre developement for me! And very addictive!
But I'm sure my situation is unique. I'm pretty sure!

That very first sentence says so much. It is unfortunate that the way we choose to dress (and I find I don't dress that often even) can be a "deal-breaker" in a relationship. I've always told myself that, "Hey, you're not a killer or a rapist." Kind of translates into the question, "Isn't it better to have a honest and honorable friend who crossdresses rather than someone who presents a facade and harms when no one is watching?" As you say, I'm in a much better place now, and am having fun.


Thanks for letting me vent.

Joni, you can vent to me anytime. Makes one feel better sometimes. Kind of funny. I thought I would come back to this thread and find a bunch of mean things. We truly do have a great forum here.


And I've had no opportunity to dress for 2 weeks now because of the holidays - and i hate it and I'm grumpy and she doesnt understand but I know I'll get through it.

I'm sorry you haven't had a "release" during the holidays. I do know what you are talking about. Hang in there for this whacky season is almost over. :D


life changes you and you can't go back to how you were before.

Quite true! Changed for the better, I think. Has everyone seen/heard the brainwashing vid on youTube referred to on the forum? I like the part about becoming a better person. :happy:


After 2 marriages, first one 5 yrs, second one over 20 yrs, I'm finally 'learning to live with myself'. It's not easy at times and I would love to be in a loving relationship but living with myself has made me smarter, perhaps too cautious, but it's much easier than tolerating a bad relationship. Like Vivian said, I too have become my best friend.

We've gotten to drink from the chalise of freedom again, and the draught tastes great. :drink: Not sure where that analogy came from, but hopefully it fits.


i fear any type of a relationship now has i don't want to get hurt again or play these stupid games. but i fear being along is not an answer ..pittyful bunch ant we ..

I agree. The games are quite a waste of time, and can just bring a person way down. Heck, from the time I said my vows to the time I filed was only 3 1/2 months; the time it took to get free was exactly 1 year!!! Being alone sometimes is not fun. Sometimes I wonder what is going to happen when my parents are gone (THEY ARE THE BOMB, BTW!!!) I will survive, and have friends to pal around with! Keeping one's personal integrity can be isolating, but there are somethings that simply shouldn't be on the negotiating table. Hopefully, that made sense. Better alone, honest, and living an honorable life than with someone, unhappy, and maybe trading away some core values.


Thank you all for talking with me!!!

Heidi99

[suchacutie]

It seems to me that you've all said the same thing: a good marriage is built on mutual trust.

Since no human is perfect, every pair has their issues to work through. If both people are committed to further the relationship in the best way possible, it will work. If one partner is not in this mindset, there will be trouble. The trick is finding that trustworthy partner, and then to be trustworthy yourself.

My wife of 33+ years is my best friend, drab or drag. The relationship is different, and that's the way we like it!

With luck it will be at least another 33 years!

tina and him

[vivianann]

It seems to me that you've all said the same thing: a good marriage is built on mutual trust.

Since no human is perfect, every pair has their issues to work through. If both people are committed to further the relationship in the best way possible, it will work. If one partner is not in this mindset, there will be trouble. The trick is finding that trustworthy partner, and then to be trustworthy yourself.

My wife of 33+ years is my best friend, drab or drag. The relationship is different, and that's the way we like it!

With luck it will be at least another 33 years!

tina and him

I agree cutie, it is really hard to find an SO that will be trustworthy and committed to their spouse and marriage vows, I see that in both men and women today, I have always given my marriage my all, but I did not get the same committment in return. When I see a man and a woman work together through the bad times as well as the good times, I think to my self he is lucky to have her, and she is lucky to have him. I just wish I could find that one woman that will love me with all her heart, and be loyal to me, because I will do the same, and I will put her on a pedistal. You are the lucky one.

[Missy Anne]

Hello Heidi,

I have been there, and I believe that although we make a decent recovery in 1 to 2 years, it really takes about 5 years to fully recover from a divorce.

My advice is to get to know yourself and what you want/need in a partner. Then interview carefully and don't waste too much time with those who don't appear to be compatible. Also, I believe it takes about 5 years before you really know someone. Everyone has traits that they routinely hide, but those traits usually surface before 5 years are up.

I followed my own advice and found my most wonderful girl in the world. I can tell you that with the right partner, life doesn't get any better than this!!!

Missy Anne

[heidi99]

Hello Heidi,

I have been there, and I believe that although we make a decent recovery in 1 to 2 years, it really takes about 5 years to fully recover from a divorce.

My advice is to get to know yourself and what you want/need in a partner. Then interview carefully and don't waste too much time with those who don't appear to be compatible. Also, I believe it takes about 5 years before you really know someone. Everyone has traits that they routinely hide, but those traits usually surface before 5 years are up.

I followed my own advice and found my most wonderful girl in the world. I can tell you that with the right partner, life doesn't get any better than this!!!

Missy Anne

Very sage advice, Missy! Part of my mistake was moving too quickly in the beginning with her. Mustn't be in such a rush! :blink:

[Eugenie]

......

So I've been examining why relationships (those with SO's) seem to be so important to me.

......

Does anyone else kind of feel this way? Hopefully I haven't offended anyone. If I have, it was truly unintentional.

Heidi99

Attitudes when comfronted to solitude vary drastically from one person to the other. Even though I'm still living with my wife, she happens to go away on business trips quite often. I have a very hard time remaining alone. I seek the presence of a friend.

On the contrary, my wife enjoys the freedom of being alone, deciding just for herself what to do next hour...

Of course, I enjoy dressing while she isn't there but ironically, I think that I resent her being away...

I try to invite friends to visit me and that makes me feel a lot better...

I think that if I were to divorce I wouldn't stay alone for long... I couldn't...

:hugs:
Eugenie

[Josephine 1941]

Hi Heidi99,

We all have a little bit of the same problem. My 1st wife never new about my CDing until the very end and that was just I had a pair of high heels on Halloween . At 27 she told me that after our 2nd daughter that she was having her tubes tied an that if I wanted anymore kids to have them by someone else. This was after I had just built her a home yes she got the home only half I left my half to the girls. My second wife knew right from the start but it was one of the don't show and I won't complane. After 30 yrs she found a new boy friend an told me I had all these problems, so she was divorcing me. I got payed off an headed south. Well I now have a women that loves all of me, we arn't married but we are commited to one another, to old to go that route. She loves me as a women an I sit dressed as a women an listen to all of her problems. She has a best girl friend to talk too and we do all the things that girl friends do,shop, cook, clean and then she has the man to cry on my shoulder. We are both the same size in cloths an shoes she even bought me a wig that is the same color and style as her hair. We go out as sisters an dress alike, so far which is 1 1/2 yrs together it is great I have a couple of Cd friends that she loves and we have many straight friends that we go out with. I have found that in my older age the women are more open to a man wanting to dress in female cloths, they have been dressing in mens cloth for awhile. Maybe that is why she is so open to my CDing, I don't know but at this point in my life I have it made.


Josephine
:2c::2c::2c:

[heidi99]

...Well I now have a women that loves all of me, we arn't married but we are commited to one another, to old to go that route. She loves me as a women an I sit dressed as a women an listen to all of her problems. She has a best girl friend to talk too and we do all the things that girl friends do,shop, cook, clean and then she has the man to cry on my shoulder. We are both the same size in cloths an shoes she even bought me a wig that is the same color and style as her hair. We go out as sisters an dress alike, so far which is 1 1/2 yrs together it is great I have a couple of Cd friends that she loves and we have many straight friends that we go out with. I have found that in my older age the women are more open to a man wanting to dress in female cloths, they have been dressing in mens cloth for awhile. Maybe that is why she is so open to my CDing, I don't know but at this point in my life I have it made.

Hi, Josephine!
Sounds like you do have it great [now ;) ] I still try to keep faith that there is another lady out there for me, but the marriage thing is pretty questionable. Incidentally, the statement by the first wife about not having any more children seems characteristic of the balance of power/state of relationships today. It's become a much more take-it-or-leave it mentality. I was talking with a former gf yesterday and made the realization that it seems that the value system I was brought up with (don't take this as a complaint) is probably more suited to the way relationships were in the 40's and 50's than they are in the modern age. That doesn't mean men work, women don't. That means having some intestinal fortitude and working on issues when they come up, and basically having a better (more honorable) ethic than exists today. I know that is a generalization, but it feels true. So those of us that take honor so seriously must be very careful about the person we take as a partner.

Heidi99

[vineman]

Reading ones experence is kinda like reading most all. The same thing happened to me. My EX put me in dept over my head and left me holding the bag and left. I really loved her so and didn't fight her over it. I took it in the back pocket and the part of the body next to the back pocket. When she left she also took my heart and done it in, With all I lost I think losing my selfesteam was the biggest thing I gave up.

[KayHenderson]

Marriage #1 - foreign national brought from overseas...had two children, then decided to abandon all of us (9 years)

Marriage #2 - merged her three children with my two, hid bills and spent money, went back to her ex, leaving me holding the bag (less than a year)

Marriage #3 - merged her three children with my two, decided they had been better off without the responsibilities of marriage and filed for divorce, leaving me with all the bills (5 years)

Seven year break working my way through bankruptcy and raising my two children by myself - never even dated

Marriage #4 - friendship grew into love, told her about my crossdressing on our fifth anniversary, couldn't ask for a more wonderful and understanding life partner (18 years and going strong, without even one fight)

It's out there. Don't give up!

[Nadia-Maria]

Heidi, I have got an experience close to yours, with a very bad marriage to a woman who stole me and made still far worst in response to my (foolish) love and generosity.
2 decades ago, having lived alone for ages, I did not yet know how to select the right gf and I happened to marry almost the worst woman ever possible, who was attracted to my belongings and helpfulness and abused my credulity in her lies.

Now I am in a wonderful relation (5 yrs) with a pretty and smart GG, very honorable and ethic as well. However, no relation's perfect ... my SO can't bear seeing me dressed.
I came out to her only recently and she copes with the unexpected news the best way she can.

The bad news is the CD-urges get stronger with age. That's why I had to come out (having made the mistake not to tell it at the very beginning).

If I would wholly abandon myself to those urges, I would probably dress everyday instead of once or two times a week. In that case the need would probably happen someday to go outside enfemme, since having to undress is boring and sad. After going several times outside enfemme, the need would probably happen to *always* go outside enfemme. My male side would be then wholly internalized.

At the moment I am trying to restrain my dressing urges within certain limits, since my SO/GG can't bear the idea of looking at me dressed, and since I agree to do my best to please her.

I believe that we sometimes have to do choices in the life, and as a rule to get something (as for me, keeping a wonderful relation with my current SO) we have to give up something (as for me, my total liberty in my external image).

Hugs

Nadia

[heidi99]

Marriage #1 - foreign national brought from overseas...had two children, then decided to abandon all of us (9 years)

Marriage #2 - merged her three children with my two, hid bills and spent money, went back to her ex, leaving me holding the bag (less than a year)

Marriage #3 - merged her three children with my two, decided they had been better off without the responsibilities of marriage and filed for divorce, leaving me with all the bills (5 years)

Seven year break working my way through bankruptcy and raising my two children by myself - never even dated

Marriage #4 - friendship grew into love, told her about my crossdressing on our fifth anniversary, couldn't ask for a more wonderful and understanding life partner (18 years and going strong, without even one fight)

It's out there. Don't give up!

My goodness, Kay! I do have hope and faith. Just kind of hard sometimes, but I'm not lonely very often, and I do have a few friends that I know are pure gold inside. So until that one comes along, I'll continue to have fun.

Heidi99