Women and Other Strangers

[CaptLex]

Before I began questioning and transitioning, women generally treated me one of two ways: the girlier ones would usually avoid me (like I had some disease), and the butcher ones would usually come on to me (no surprise there). It's not true of all women, but that's the way it was about 90% of the time. Some of the girly ones did befriend me in situations where they got to know me after some time (like at work), but I always felt that we were from different planets, so I preferred to socialize with ones that were more interested in "real" issues that affect everyone (like unemployment and global warming) rather than the ones that only talked about things like whether their bag matched their shoes (not that I'm averse to those discussions generally, but I can't talk about that stuff exclusively). :rolleyes:

Lately, things seem to be changing and it's fine, but I don't quite know what to make of it. I guess I expected that things would always be the way they were, so it's thrown me for a loop a bit. Some butch women still flirt with me, but they're usually ones that know I'm trans (which doesn't really make sense to me). But now girlier women no longer scowl, move away or give me that "stay away from me" look. In fact, it seems that now I encounter very friendly ones on almost a daily basis. It amuses me but also confuses me. Are they flirting when they smile and say nice things? I don't know - I didn't get the manual that covers that chapter. :p

Men, on the other hand pretty much treat me the same as before - regardless of what type they are. Although the ones that know I'm trans tend to be friendlier now than before, but it's understandable. They weren't unfriendly before, but I'm sure they didn't think they had anything in common with a girl, or maybe they worried that their friendliness could be misconstrued, so they kept a distance. Now there are so many of them that make sure to greet me and ask me how things are going - which is very cool.

Anyway, I was just wondering if anyone who is now seen differently (whether because of transition or just passing most of the time) has noticed whether people treat them differently - especially women. :raisedeyebrow:

This question is open to all, of course.

[Felix]

Excellent topic Lex!!

Yes when I was obviously an everyday lesbian there were certain women where I worked that thought even though I was in a long term relationship, that I wanted to get into every woman knickers and isolated me because of that. The men in most part were fine with me. Never any problems there really. The newer female staff befriended me funnily enough and could be coincidence it coincided with me coming out in the dressing sense of the word and becoming more masculine and more myself. they are both girlie type tom boys if ya like one more girlie than the other. It's cos they are both sporty types I guess.
There is another woman though who is so hostile towards me infact this is the one who victimizes me. It started with a female teacher who has now left she was really bad to me and other members of staff supported me through this even told her to back off. Funny thing is the one who has been at me for 2 years was one of the ones who supported me. How the tables turn. I am very wary of all of them there. The men remain great.
On the scene it's always gay men who seem to be attracted to me as I have obviously become far too masculine for the lesbian population.They just avoid me, I feel shunned by my own community :sad: so onward. I have been confused slightly by the gay men but I have sorted that out now. I do think they are attractive but don't want sex with them lol. xx Felix :hugs:

[Kieron Andrew]

OK can i put a slight different spin on things?....

Lesbian women dont want to know whether they are butch or femme, i had many lesbian friends before i can out as trans and now they dont bother...(which is fine!)....its like cos i identified as lesbian before and now a straight man ive somehow betrayed them
Gay GM's find my whole wanting to transition fascinating so warm to me and want to know how im doing and stuff and where im at, they were friendly before but more so now..and even had a few try to tell me they would find me attractive once i start T lol.....
Straight GGs dont know what to make of it (the whole 'but dont you want children and all that stuff)they are generally polite but stand off (something i was oddly expecting from a GM)
Straight GMs there has been no change either way, i guess i'll always be female to them

[Stargirl]

It must be frustrating to many of you who are asked "Why don't you make up your mind?" I am certain that many people believe you are being "difficult" to get attention. You know, neurotic, confused. (OH sure.ha ha That's it) From what I can see, you are not confused. People who are uneasy with TS TG don't know how to "handle" the unusual aspects of the situation, and are often forced to examine his/her own gender challenges. That's a good thing for those of us who are different from the general status, but most people shy away from a look inside, and tend to forget the crushes THEY had during the teen years. I had crushes on boys and girls. Congratulate me. (takes a bow). You are all well adjusted, and I am learning so much from you. (takes a sip of wine)

[Kate Simmons]

Not really Lex, although I think it's mostly my own attitude and bearing that carries. I never treat anyone differently and expect the same. At work I get along well with everyone but especially the women. I think it's because they find me easy to talk to. Even so, I never give up on the guys. I make it a point to initiate conversations and always find a common ground with even the shyest ones.

On the TG scene it's pretty much the same. Some of my best friends are lesbians but I also have a lot of GG and gay friends as well who like me as both Sal and Rich. I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that I'm kind of a no nonsense person and have respect for everyone. Couple that with the fact that I don't take myself or the CDing that seriously and it's mostly about making it a fun thing and keeps me approachable. Mostly it makes me happy when I see others happy and having a good time. Works for me my friend.;):happy:

[ZenFrost]

I've never understood women, and I've always felt really awkward around the really femme gossip type ones. Even after living full time male I haven't really seen a change in how they act towards me (or don't act towards me :hmmm:). It might just be that they've always been picking up on my awkward vibe and still do so that's why they don't seem to like me. But that's okay 'cause I'm not really into girly girls.

[Felix]

Lol I like looking at girlie girls but I can't cope with the gossiping ones who whisper openly grrrrrrrrrr!!!! I have got a good friend though who is girlie lol all the boys like her no wonder she is tops xx Felix :o :hugs:

[mistunderstood]

I at lost with any girl wether girly or butch. I to missed the chapter on women in general. Like I do not know how to flirt.( Shame to say) or if a girl is flirting with me I seem to miss it till another person smacks me and says hey they are flirting with you.
Guess we need a Ann Landers of social grace in here.

[Kieron Andrew]

Ior if a girl is flirting with me I seem to miss it till another person smacks me and says hey they are flirting with you.LOL are sure you're not GM! :heehee:

[CaptLex]

LOL are sure you're not GM! :heehee:
But Aaron's got a good point 'cause I think I'm oblivious to flirting from straight GGs - it must be different from the way lesbians flirt, 'cause those I get right away (having seen it for decades). Or it could be that the straight women aren't flirting, just not seeing me as scary anymore, so they're friendlier. I have no idea. :idontknow:

The reason I've taken it as possible flirting is because they offer me things - from asking if they can throw something out for me to extra stuff in my take out order. And just two days ago, when I went out with Cai and his roommate to the planetarium, the young lady there gave me the student discount and told me not to worry about it - even though I told her I'm not a student (twice). But maybe they're just being nice . . . . right? :thinking:

It's just a new experience for me. :p

[Kieron Andrew]

But Aaron's got a good point 'cause I think I'm oblivious to flirting from straight GGs - it must be different from the way lesbians flirt, 'cause those I get right away (having seen it for decades). Or it could be that the straight women aren't flirting, just not seeing me as scary anymore, so they're friendlier. I have no idea. :idontknow:

The reason I've taken it as possible flirting is because they offer me things - from asking if they can throw something out for me to extra stuff in my take out order. And just two days ago, when I went out with Cai and his roommate to the planetarium, the young lady there gave me the student discount and told me not to worry about it - even though I told her I'm not a student (twice). But maybe they're just being nice . . . . right? :thinking:

It's just a new experience for me. :p

Sounds like you are unintentionally giving off a straight male vibe to all these ladies :heehee:, wanna go looking for girls when i come over :tongueout

[TeaPirateFox]

I get along with select groups of people, doesn't matter whether its lovely ladies or gentlemen.

Alot of the time, I do come off as a very girly/gay boy though. (For the sake of the Goddess, I did just dye my hair bright pink lol).

But I'm also flirty by nature. So if anyones flirting with me, I don't notice it. And I don't really look for it either.

The one thing I've noticed though is that a few women are growly (ie. The work incident from earlier) but that could also be homophobia.

Gentlemen, if they have a reaction, their hiding it from me.

I really only notice the reactions of the people I hang out with though, so I guess this is just a ramble.

[Felix]

OMG!!!! I must be giving off the gay male vibe stronger than I ever have done in my life. I have been told as ya now I'm the campest lesbian my mate has ever known :o I'm definately not giving off the lesbian vibes anymore I don't think :eek: or is that just my imagination!!!! I can do the flirting thing no probs but then I run a mile, prob because of everything thats happened :sad: xx Felix :hugs::hugs:

[Taylor105]

Here is how it is for me. First off I don't have any friends here yet. Real life ones. So I have no idea how I would be treated. But in stores when I'm checking girls out they usually smile and don't turn away. I love flirting. :) I pass a lot of the time until I speak. But that's another topic. My family is just now getting to the point where they are comfortable with me being a guy. That's cool. I have three online girlfriends. Two of them are bi and one is straight. They all know I am trans. So I suppose I would probably fit in the most with the bisexual genetic women. If my real life would be anything like my online life. I haven't hung out with any guys yet but I get the head nod and the "sup bro?" a lot. If they knew I was trans I have no idea what they would think. Having nightmare images of the hicks who killed Brandon Teena right now. :sad:

[CaptLex]

Sounds like you are unintentionally giving off a straight male vibe to all these ladies :heehee:, wanna go looking for girls when i come over :tongueout
Sure . . . I'll lure them and you reel 'em in. :heehee:

[Lisa Golightly]

The eyes say everything.

[CaptLex]

The eyes say everything.
Thanks, Lisa . . . I better look more carefully next time, then. :love:

[Cai]

Fromo what I can tell, most people out in public seem to be less friendly, but I don't know if that's because I come off as male or if I come off as scary butch.

One thing I have seen is that my friends' fiancés and boyfriends are friendlier to me now. Maybe they sense we have more in common or something.

[Leo Lane]

Before I began questioning and transitioning, women generally treated me one of two ways: the girlier ones would usually avoid me (like I had some disease), and the butcher ones would usually come on to me (no surprise there).

I only wish girly girls would avoid me. They always try to give me a makeover. No girly girl seems able to see me without wanting to rush over and push my hair out of my eyes.

[CaptLex]

Fromo what I can tell, most people out in public seem to be less friendly, but I don't know if that's because I come off as male or if I come off as scary butch.
You're too cute to be scary. :koc:

Another thing I've noticed is that women now automatically expect me to let them get on the bus before me (even if I'm ahead of them on the line), also on/off elevators and through doors. They just come out of nowhere and move to get in front of me. :blink:

[Kieron Andrew]

You're too cute to be scary. :koc:

Another thing I've noticed is that women now automatically expect me to let them get on the bus before me (even if I'm ahead of them on the line), also on/off elevators and through doors. They just come out of nowhere and move to get in front of me. :blink:

They are trying to make sure chivalry is not dead and that you are a gentleman....sorry but its a done thing in a man's world to let the lady go first lol, that one you will have to get used to lol

[CaptLex]

They are trying to make sure chivalry is not dead and that you are a gentleman....sorry but its a done thing in a man's world to let the lady go first lol

Not when there are 3 men on the line and 20 women - which means I won't get a seat on the loooooooong ride to work. Sorry, babe, not with my bad knee. :p

I never expected that kind of treatment when I lived as a female - just took my place on the bus depending on where I stood on the line.

[Kieron Andrew]

Not when there are 3 men on the line and 20 women - which means I won't get a seat on the loooooooong ride to work. Sorry, babe, not with my bad knee. :p

lol....meany!

[CaptLex]

lol....meany!
Alrighty then, I'll just give up my seat and sit on your lap. :tongueout

I don't mind the door/elevator stuff and I do give up my seat to elderly, disabled or babies, but dude . . . I need a seat on that long commute or I won't be able to walk. :sad:

[Kieron Andrew]

I need a seat on that long commute or I won't be able to walk. :sad:

yeah ok you're the exception to the rule you have a disability yourself :p

[Cai]

Another thing I've noticed is that women now automatically expect me to let them get on the bus before me (even if I'm ahead of them on the line), also on/off elevators and through doors. They just come out of nowhere and move to get in front of me. :blink:

Why do some people expect that? I know I never expected it; it always threw me off to have someone stop and let me through a door. What do elevator doors have to do with chivalry, anyway?

[CaptLex]

yeah ok you're the exception to the rule you have a disability yourself :p
Thanks . . . you know chivalry is not dead with me - it's just in pain. :p

[Felix]

Lol I must just be old fashioned I've always tended to let women go first but I will offer men now too :heehee: xx Felix :hugs:

[ZenFrost]

Thanks . . . you know chivalry is not dead with me - it's just in pain. :p

I think chivalry is a zombie, it died but came back. Sort of.

[MJ]

great post . i see the same thing but reverse you see the girlie girls tend to want to talk but i am at a loss for words something i wanted but now don't understand . and guys letting me on the bus first or the open door thing . the pigs honking there horn in there cars or the wolf whistle ..i get that .but i never got the transgendered manual so i just wing it .. and try to look understanding when in fact i don't have a clue

[CaptLex]

Why do some people expect that? I know I never expected it; it always threw me off to have someone stop and let me through a door. What do elevator doors have to do with chivalry, anyway?
I find that the guys who used to step back and motion me to get on an elevator or through a door first were usually of a "certain age" (which proves just how old Kieron is :heehee:), whereas younger guys (at least here where I live) don't usually do that. And to be honest, I always found that a bit condescending and patriarchal, not chivalrous or polite, when I lived as a female.

I've always held doors open for others regardless of gender and offered my seat to whoever needed it more than me regardless of gender too, so I don't get the elevator thing either, frankly (isn't it about equality?). Though if it means that much to someone, I don't have a problem letting them in first, but the idea of someone who has been waiting for the bus for two minutes expecting me to let them on first (even though I got there half an hour before her), I still don't think is fair. :rolleyes:

[Kieron Andrew]

(which proves just how old Kieron is :heehee:),:oi!! im younger than you just cos i might be older in spirit!! :slap:

[Emily Ann Brown]

CaptLex,

I want to get on the bus before you so you can get a good look at my arse as I assend the steps...GEESH, you REALLY didn't get EITHER manual did ya (GIGGLE GIGGLE).

You can come up to me and tell me your legs are bad and I'll sit on your lap. I am such a flirt.


Taylor,

I'm disappointed that you didn't mention me in there with your girlfriends. SIGH.


I feel much of this same concensus of confusion about how I'm treated and how others want to relate to me too. In general I think women relate to me as female whether I'm dressed so or not (must be my vibes). I never know when a woman is coming on to me in guy mode (well okay, she opens her blouse exposing her breasts, or sticks her tongue in my ear I do get that...GIGGLE GIGGLE) Guys seldom do anything but flirt when I'm me, and in drab mode I sense I don't fit in (their opinion). Probably some homophobic reaction.


Emily Ann

[Kieron Andrew]

CaptLex,

I want to get on the bus before you so you can get a good look at my arse as I assend the steps...GEESH, you REALLY didn't get EITHER manual did ya (GIGGLE GIGGLE).

You can come up to me and tell me your legs are bad and I'll sit on your lap. I am such a flirt.
Trouble is with that Emily he got the gay boys manual, not how to flirt with beautiful ladies manual :heehee:

[CaptLex]

CaptLex,

I want to get on the bus before you so you can get a good look at my arse as I assend the steps...GEESH, you REALLY didn't get EITHER manual did ya (GIGGLE GIGGLE).

You can come up to me and tell me your legs are bad and I'll sit on your lap. I am such a flirt.
I'm not falling for that, Emily Ann, they just want to grab a seat before they're all gone. :p Besides, Kieron's right, I operate from a different manual. ;) And if you sit on my lap you'll probably find yourself flying off at the first pothole. :heehee:


Trouble is with that Emily he got the gay boys manual, not how to flirt with beautiful ladies manual :heehee:
My lawyer, ladies and gents - always ready to explain for me. Just send me the bill, K. :^5:

[Kieron Andrew]

My lawyer, ladies and gents - always ready to explain for me. Just send me the bill, K. :^5:

im not sure you could afford me lol:heehee:

[CaptLex]

im not sure you could afford me lol:heehee:
Can I pay you in tequila, Oreos and Mountain Dew? :happy:

[Kieron Andrew]

Can I pay you in tequila, Oreos and Mountain Dew? :happy:Dang it! *mutters* he always knows how to hit my soft spot!

[Taylor105]

CaptLex,

I want to get on the bus before you so you can get a good look at my arse as I assend the steps...GEESH, you REALLY didn't get EITHER manual did ya (GIGGLE GIGGLE).

You can come up to me and tell me your legs are bad and I'll sit on your lap. I am such a flirt.


Taylor,

I'm disappointed that you didn't mention me in there with your girlfriends. SIGH.


I feel much of this same concensus of confusion about how I'm treated and how others want to relate to me too. In general I think women relate to me as female whether I'm dressed so or not (must be my vibes). I never know when a woman is coming on to me in guy mode (well okay, she opens her blouse exposing her breasts, or sticks her tongue in my ear I do get that...GIGGLE GIGGLE) Guys seldom do anything but flirt when I'm me, and in drab mode I sense I don't fit in (their opinion). Probably some homophobic reaction.


Emily Ann

Hey Emily,

I didn't name any names. What makes you think you aren't one of them? ;) :love: