You can't handle the truth

[Charlotte Cross]

Hello girls. You'll probably all hate me by the time you finish reading this post, but I can't take it any more.

I'm flabbergasted when one of you can't understand why you cannot pass in public as a woman.
I'm even more amazed at the amount of support you receive from other members here.

I know this is a support group, but where does fantasy end and reality begin?

Isn't it about time we all quit being so nice and try being a little more honest with our opinions?
Why is it that most everyone is is so afraid to hurt someone's feelings? Or is it that by you telling someone they look good when they really don't, it will make you feel better about yourself?

I would think that if you told someone the truth, they might think twice before going out and getting embarrassed, or beat up, or even worse.

Our hands, our feet and our shoulders are too big. Our faces are too square. We have no boobs, we have no arses, we have no hips and our knees are too knobby.
We certainly don't have the correct plumbing.

We're NOT women.

We're guys in dresses looking for an answer that does not exist.

[GypsyKaren]

Speak for yourself, because you're sure as hell not speaking for me.

Karen Starlene :star:

[deja true]

Indeed! Maybe we're dreaming, but truthfully, I don't think most of us really care. The thrill is as much in the chase as in the final win. Girls who know they can't pass either don't go out or only go out with friends. Girls who think they can eventually pass keep trying and trying and trying to get better at it. That's the prize, just being in the race!

I was a defeatist, too, for a long time. But now I'm back in the race. I don't care if I win. I just want to run! Try and catch me!

deja

[Michelle-NC]

Charlotte, I have seen quite a few girls on this site that could easily pass, and I have looked twice at some of their pictures, not even sure it was a guy in a dress. Can all of us? No..That is true, but your thinking is we all need to hide in the closet? That we will all get beaten up if we dare show our faces out in public? Sorry, and don't mean to offend, but that is exactly the closed minded thinking that sends most of over the edge. No one is asking you to send support to any of the girls who go out, but at the same time, no one should push them further into the closet. If you choose to hide in your closet, then that is fine. Your choice, just don't force your choice onto others.

[Bethany_Anne_Fae]

I disagree with the majority of the post for one thing...

You are lumping all of us into one solid category and that is something that simply cannot be applied to us as a whole.

Each of us is different
Each of us is at a different stage of what we do.
Each of us has different reasons for doing it.

Some want to blend right in with society and not be noticed. despite what you have written here, some of us actually DO. So what if some of us do not?? Its always someone else that does not understand who we are, why were here, and where we are going that has an "issue" with us.

Now, what I DO agree with is the honesty issue.

I've posted here about my personal take on people who ask me for my opinion, and that is... I will tell you truthfully and constructively, but don't give me grief if you don't appreciate the answer. Its really that simple.

Passing is a subjective issue. Even the best of us get read every so often. No one is perfect and I've seen real girls out there get pegged as men when they weren't. Its a cruel world and if one is going to put on the warpaint, the garb, and go out in public... one also needs to put on their BIG-GIRL Panties and roll with the punches.

My two cents, you're mileage may vary ;)

*hugs*

Zara

[Angela Burke]

Where does fantasy end and reality begin?
Well how about having a picture of yourself as an avatar and not some dead film star? That could be a start.

[Emily Ann Brown]

My mother taught me if I couldn't say something nice then don't say anything....so I'm not gonna reply to this!


Emily Ann

[breanna53]

Charlotte, I have seen quite a few girls on this site that could easily pass, and I have looked twice at some of their pictures, not even sure it was a guy in a dress. Can all of us? No..That is true, but your thinking is we all need to hide in the closet? That we will all get beaten up if we dare show our faces out in public? Sorry, and don't mean to offend, but that is exactly the closed minded thinking that sends most of over the edge. No one is asking you to send support to any of the girls who go out, but at the same time, no one should push them further into the closet. If you choose to hide in your closet, then that is fine. Your choice, just don't force your choice onto others.

Thanks Michelle, you have said most of what was on my mind after reading the post. Closed minded people that think everything should be thier way is the reason we have all the trouble in the world today. THEY should stay in the closet , and thats as nice as i can be :Angry3:

[TGMarla]

I've been told that I can pass. And I've looked at myself in pictures and in person and thought to myself that I can pass.....but really, I can't. At least I think I would never pass upon any close inspection. And it's frustrating at times. But this is the hand I'm dealt. When I first posted pictures on this site, I got a huge response from many friendly folks who told me that I was pretty! I'd never been told that before, and it felt good. Were they lying? Maybe a little, but I don't care. Their response did not push me out the door. They didn't fill me with a bunch of false illusions. But it made me feel accepted, wanted, feminine, and pretty. There's nothing wrong with that. I'll take that any day.

[Kate Simmons]

Well Charlotte, let me put it succinctly. How do you answer a question from a woman like:"Does this dress make me look fat?" While I will not out and out lie to my friends here, I nonetheless attempt to be tactful when they ask for advice appearance wise. I have a vested (no pun intended) interest here with my friends. While I realize that such a question from a genetic woman is a no win situation, the feelings of CD's is pretty much terra incognita, so it's best to tread lightly sometimes. Besides, I can't say much as I looked like something akin to the Devil's Grandma when I first started dressing. At least now I maybe look more like the Devil's sister, which has got to be an improvement.;):battingeyelashes::happy:

[Littlej10]

I love thge fantasy. We all have our own slice of hell but don't push it off onto others. Most of us who go out don't expect to pass, we are not stupid, just sympathetic.

Sorry, that was a bit strong.

[Brianna1]

I agree with Zara on the honesty issue and I do believe that we can offer each other support by constructive evaluation of others and that there is usually a way to help others to be better at dressing than they are currently achieving. I kinda thought that's why we were all here...to learn. Blindly saying you look great doesn't help. I for one would welcome people helping me to look better. I like the way I look in my clothes and will ask for advice when I want to move on to the next stage. That for me will be make up and wigs plus breast forms. Yes we have to accept that there will be people who recognise what we are doing if we go out in public and we need to be ready to take it in our stride if the reaction is negative. Most people are too busy with their own problems to care what you or I do. Being bitchy amongst ourselves is not the way forward but neither is the wrong kind of support.
Hugs,
Brianna

[MJ]

Our hands, our feet and our shoulders are too big. Our faces are too square. We have no boobs, we have no arses, we have no hips and our knees are too knobby.

We certainly don't have the correct plumbing.
We're NOT women.

We're guys in dresses looking for an answer that does not exist.

next time your at the mall take a good look around i can look just a good as the woman there and as confident as them ..

unless i get naked in public no one can tell what plumbing i have


My mother taught me if I couldn't say something nice then don't say anything....so I'm not gonna reply to this!
Emily Ann

My mum taught me the same thing ..

i Guess we have to try a little harder

[bEEb]

Awwwww....:eek: Sniff sniff... snivel ... ack.. choke...:sad:
bwaaaaa! :cry:

Now look what ya done! :confused2:

And I was certain that I was gonna win the Miss America pageant before my first social security check arives in "2015"

[Sheila]

Hello girls. You'll probably all hate me by the time you finish reading this post, but I can't take it any more.

I'm flabbergasted when one of you can't understand why you cannot pass in public as a woman.
I'm even more amazed at the amount of support you receive from other members here.

I know this is a support group, but where does fantasy end and reality begin?

Isn't it about time we all quit being so nice and try being a little more honest with our opinions?
Why is it that most everyone is is so afraid to hurt someone's feelings? Or is it that by you telling someone they look good when they really don't, it will make you feel better about yourself?

I would think that if you told someone the truth, they might think twice before going out and getting embarrassed, or beat up, or even worse.

Our hands, our feet and our shoulders are too big. Our faces are too square. We have no boobs, we have no arses, we have no hips and our knees are too knobby.
We certainly don't have the correct plumbing.

We're NOT women.

We're guys in dresses looking for an answer that does not exist.

Yup, you are probably right .................. this thread ain't gonna make you the most popular person around ............ but I for one appluad your stance is speaking honestly from your point of view .

Now't wrong in speaking the truth as you see it, though unless you sugar coat it sometimes until it is unrecognisable you tend to hurt others feelings.

Some of the anger directed at you in this thread I feel comes from the uncoated truth that dispels illusions.

Me I like the unsugared truth ............ know where I stand then .......

:hugs: cos I think by the time this thread is finished you are sure gonna need em :rolleyes:

[carolinebrookes]

Who decides what the truth of what we do is?

The truth is that most times any of us go out, we most probably are "read" at some point. Most times we are out we are also not "read" because when all said and done, no one really cares what for instance, I look like and unless they come up really close then they will most likely have no clue.

99% of trying to "pass" is about confidence and how we hold ourselves rather than how we look. Obviously if I were to go out and about sporting a beard and handlebar moustache whilst wearing a dress, then I may get looked at a little more often, but who is to say I can't do it if I want to?

From what I have seen on this site since joining, A good slice of the girls around would, the majority of times, be able to go out and enjoy themselves without "Being beaten up". I don't think that there is anyone round here silly enough to say that they would "pass" all of the time, but we sure will give it a damn good try!

As for telling someone that they look good. Would you honestly tell your wife she looked horrid in that new dress she so obviously likes? A very brave man would do so! Diplomacy rules and sometimes you have to be a little more understanding.
I know that if someone from here mails me to say that I look good in a picture I have posted, then I take it with a pinch of salt as I know that I shall NEVER look like a gg. In the same vein, if someone mails me and tells me that I look dreadful then I also take that with a pinch of salt as I know that I am not too ugly when scrubbed up! lol

Can I handle the truth? I'd say I have a firly good handle on it and know my own limitations.

Interesting post by the way.

[Suzy Harrison]

I guess she's talking about me ....

[Stacye Rose]

Someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed today.

Charlotte,
While some of the things you say are indeed the unsugared truth. much of your post sounds like negativity directed at the universe in general and yourself in particular.Yes, in many cases our hands, feet, arms etc. are too large, however, you miss the point. What we look like is less important than how we feel.

I can speak only for myself but it's in the trying that the challenge exists. I don't care if I pass when I dress at home. I enjoy the process of crossdressing: I love the smell of the make-up, the feel of the clothing, the sound of my heels on the floor, the smile on my face when i twirl my skirt in the mirror.These are the pleasures I get from crossdressing.
When I do go out in public the same pleasures exist in an altered way. If I pass so much the better, if I don't at least I looked good and had a good time trying.

As usual my wonderful sisters respond with love, friendlyness, love, and acceptance. Thanks as always Girls.:2c:

[annekathleen]

REALITY CHECK!

I love this site!
I love to dress like a woman!
I'll never pass as a woman!!
I'm still a man!

[Lisa Golightly]

I would think that if you told someone the truth, they might think twice before going out and getting embarrassed, or beat up, or even worse.

So you'd prefer it if our people hid away like some kind of third class citizen circling the drain too afraid to open the curtains? What's so great about that? It's wrong to project your personal fears on the rest of us.


Our hands, our feet and our shoulders are too big. Our faces are too square. We have no boobs, we have no arses, we have no hips and our knees are too knobby.

Speak for yourself Darling!


We certainly don't have the correct plumbing.

So what? You tell my brain that's all there is to it...



We're NOT women.

We're guys in dresses looking for an answer that does not exist.

I like to think there is more to being a woman than mere plumbing... Ever try reading the Wasp Factory?

[StacyCD]

There are about as many reasons for crossdressing as there are crossdressers! It's very hard to generalize about something that is so poorly understood.

Each person dresses for different reasons and the reasons may change throughout our lives. For some, they can move through the world and be mistaken as gg. For some, it may be a pure fantasy never to see the light of day. For others, it may be to just have a wider choice in clothing. But as for passing, walk around Walmart and you'll quickly see a number of women who look very manly! So if upon close inspection someone sees me as a man in a dress (which I am), as long as they treat me appropriately, I don't care what they see! I dress for myself.

[Daintre]

So you are looking for the unsugared truth. lets start with why you wear frocks, from what I got from a previous thread you wrote.

"I have dressed prior to puberty, but since I became of age, I realized the sexual satisfaction I achieved and still do. I am approaching 60, and it still turns me on. My motivation, first and foremost, is the sexual rush I get from dressing, and feeling those silks and satins against my body, imagining that I am a submissive and beautiful female, ready to be taken and ravished."

For you dressing is mainly sexual which is only one of many reasons why we dress, because we all don't get off sexually by dressing does not diminish why we dress. Some of us pass and it is important to those who do. Me I don't pass, however I did still go out with friends. If I ask for advice I would appreciate getting a post which was honest but above all one which will give me positive criticism..not a negative slap in the face.

My responses are honest, that does not mean they are negative, I try and be as positive as possible, after all this is a support group.

[windycissy]

Sweetheart, you just can't generalize like that...like most things in nature, it's a bell-shaped curve: on either ends of the curve are those who are drop-dead passable or hopeless, and in the middle are the rest, who might be able to pull it off with the right makeup, clothes and bearing.

[Angela Burke]

Oh Charlotte!
You've certainly put a pigeon amongst the cats!
"I think this one will run and and run."

[Bethany_Anne_Fae]

Makes me wonder though...

Is it just me or does it seem like there have been a lot of angry people posting in here lately?

Zara

[MaidInCan]

Charlotte, honey, I think you created the hornet's nest you wanted to. Was this just to mask your true feelings and insecurities about being a cd and showing your femininity. Maybe you have had some bad experiences but there are girls on this site, as you've seen and heard, who have had positive experiences. Men, too, can go out and get beaten up-that's the nature of today's society-there is always a risk but to those that risk go the rewards. Just lighten up a little, read more, and appreciate the girls here by showing your support. Thanks for bringing out the comments so that the rest of us girls can benefit.:hugs:

[kimberly ann487]

This has to be the best thread I've read in the short time since joining. I love a good controversy. Everything that has been said has made me stop and think. I have all the doubts and dreams expressed myself. I feel less alone than ever. Keep it going girls.:happy::hugs:
:love:KIM

[Charleen]

C'mon, is this really Mr. "We're men dammit" Scissors under a different name?

[Wickanne GG]

Hello girls.....Our hands, our feet and our shoulders are too big. Our faces are too square. We have no boobs, we have no arses, we have no hips and our knees are too knobby....

Let me get my calculator working here....you just described 39% of the GGs/FAB I know. I almost fall into that description but I have breast and arse...lots of it lately :D


We're guys in dresses looking for an answer that does not exist.

Prehaps it's an aswer that "does not exist" for you or you haven't found it yet.

I am with Jess…I like the “the unsugared truth ............ know where I stand then ....”

:love:
Wickanne

[Nicki B]

Hello girls. You'll probably all hate me by the time you finish reading this post, but I can't take it any more.

....

We're NOT women.

We're guys in dresses looking for an answer that does not exist.


All I hear is pain, Charlotte... :sad:

I think what you're really talking about is yourself - and you want us to beat up on you, to help with the guilt you feel?


Well, I'm not going to - I think you need help more than anything, so you can see if that fantasy can be made to come true? :hmmm:

[docrobbysherry]

Sherry has gotten some sweet and/or positive comments, and some negative ones on this site. In most cases I felt they were "constructive and supportive".

Both types were generally honest, which I appreciated. The "brutal" ones, not so much!
U can temper your comments, still getting your point accross, without insulting the other person!

And Charlotte, my cute butt's real and all mine! Ha!
RS

[Janet Bern]

I am 6'3. I am 65. That being said. I have yet to ever notice any cds in malls. Being is there are many of us around and go to malls shopping enfemme I can assume that they all blend. When you are trying to be a woman at 6'3 and 65 year old thats when it becomes a BIG challenge to blend
Janet

[Kate Simmons]

I think the old poem says it well:

"What are little boys made of , made of
What are little boys made of?"

"Piggens and pails and little puppy tails
and that's what little boys are made of."

"What are little girls made of, made of
What are little girls made of?"

"Sugar and spice and everything nice
and that's what little girls are made of."

It's said you can't make a silk purse out a sow's ear but many of us give it our best shot Hon and that's what makes all the difference.:happy:

[Shelly Preston]

You cant handle the truth

I think most of us are all to aware of the truth especially if we ask the right question
We may not pass but we might look ok in a pic and it can be flattering to hear you look nice but looking nice and passing are not the same

If I want an answer to how I look I will ask people I trust to give me the honest truth

You are questioning the honest of the members here I think you have to realise what is happenning

Some will say get dressed up and go for it because that the attitude they have irrespective of how you look. Others will be more cautious

As long as we know how to take the advice we will be ok

So yes we can handle the truth

[joann426]

boy there is alot af angery people here but all i can say is

bought a outfit at wallmart20$
went out for dinner 28$

being a crossdresser priceless

[Mitch23]

there is no chance that I can survive anything more than a casual glance from a distance. certainly not in the close up zone and definitely not when i speak. Do I care? Not a fig. I present as a guy in a frock and that is what I am.

mitch

[JessieB]

A bit of honesty for Charlotte -- I don't condemn you for what you've said, but there's nothing terribly original about your opinion. You sound just like so many others who let their negative presumptions cage them, whose "knowledge" is all paranoid opinion and no experience. If you did have the courage to step out, you would discover what the rest of us have ...

... which is, as long as you exercise good judgment, it's okay to be a guy in a dress. IMO, 95% of us don't pass, but you know what? It doesn't matter. What does matter is that you feel good about yourself, that you make an effort to be as attractive as you can, and use some common sense in your outings.

Here's what I think about you -- you've been playing around with dressing most of your life, and something inside your femme self is just dying to get out of your lonely cell and interact with other people, experience a bit of the world as Charlotte.

So instead of channeling all of your energy in suppressing your desire and persuading yourself that you can't do something, try using this forum and other resources to learn how to take the next step in feminine expression and experience.

[Kieron Andrew]

C'mon, is this really Mr. "We're men dammit" Scissors under a different name?

i had the same thought

[Chickhe]

Charlotte, I would like honesty when I eventually post my picture, but I don't want to be hurt either so how about I ask to be judged if that is what I want?

Besides, where is your image? How's about we all provide you input, maybe you can pass with some help.

[karynspanties]

Suzy.....don't worry about whether she is talking about you. I know I made some rough comments on the other thread...but I was just being honest. As far as this thread is concerned....yes I am a man dressed as a woman....and darn proud of it. Have I been read out in public? Yes......Do I care or let it stop me from being me? No way. Will I go out again knowing I will be read? Darn tootin' cowboy! No if only someone was close by.....I would hit them with my purse!!:D

[KandisTX]

The answer here is quite simple. If you want to pass, try dressing more age appropriate. Hell, I'm a 40 year old and I know damned good and well if I put on a micro mini skirt and a tight midriff top I sure as hell am not going to pass as a female. BUT on the other hand, if I put on a nice skirt, blouse, hose and heels combo and do my make-up and hair right, and present myself, carry myself, and make sure my actions and movements are appropriate to my desired gender presentation then the odds are I will "pass".

No, not very many of us are blessed with a smaller frame that can pass easier, we just have to work a little harder at it. I'm 6 ft tall weigh 220 lbs and in male mode, I look like the stereotypical biker. Does that or anything else stop me from going out dressed? HELL NO.

I can see that you have some issues, and that's fine we all have issues of one sort or another, but you cannot judge ALL of us with such ignorant blanke statements. We are not all the same. Hell, I make a better looking woman than some GG/FABs I know.

Kandis:love:

[Bobby Anne]

Smart girl!
The rest are all delusional.
Welcome to the world of reality.
Get a gander at some of those who disagree with you tooo.

Teee heeee

[Tamara Croft]

C'mon, is this really Mr. "We're men dammit" Scissors under a different name?No, that was Stapler - http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44593 - and he was from Australia ;)

And wow, what a thread.... you want complete honesty Charlotte to your question? seriously? from me? think you're ready for what I'm about to say to you? I think you're a nasty little bitch... oh sorry, make that b*****d... because like you said, you're just a man in a dress. I think you have just insulted the majority of this board, infact, I know you have... seriously... get a clue already, if you're just going to post here and be mean, well you aren't going to reach 50 posts, I can guarantee you that...

And Bobby Anne, you're just as bad, stirring the pot...

Seriously, grow up!!!

[Charleen]

No, that was Stapler - http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44593 - and he was from Australia ;)

I was being facitious:D. I knew it's name was some sort of desk accessory!
Love ya, mean it, Lily

[Deborah Jane]

Charlotte!!..We know we,re men dressed up, we ain,t stupid:Angry3: I don,t know what your trying to achieve with this post, we,re all here to support and help each other...If you want to be a twat thats your choice:tongueout. BTW I don,t go out coz i know i don,t pass, but if i did go out and someone did try assaulting me they,d get a VERY nasty shock!! I think a lot of us here are quite capable of taking on and beating bigotted jerks!!....

Just lighten up a bit will you!!

[LindaTS]

Let me say this about our situation. I agree that I'm not the prettiest woman around but I look as good, or sometimes better, than some females so I get along fairly well in the outside world. No boobs? Wanna bet? Some of us have them although it's usally not very cheap to get them. At least we have part of the right plumbing and if our situations were a little different some of us could have ALL the right plumbing. There, I said my piece.

[shannonsilk]

you know, sometimes when I go out enfemme People seem to be on to the fact that something is wrong. But then this week I went in the men's room wearing all guy clothes and not particularly clean shaven and 2 guys were standing right by the door and they say something like you don't want to come in here. They had shocked expressions. They were standing in the hall and I could hear them saying was that a guy. One of them came back in to check whilst I was standing at the urinal. So big hands, square faces, facial hair-no problem.

[Di]

All I can say is wow..........Your Perception is Your Reality.
Don't lump everyone into your reality. This post upset me....but then I realize....................... this must be the way you see yourself.

[Paige.]

Why should it matter to you one way or the other, whether someone can pass in public as a woman or not? And why should it personally flabbergast you that someone else is upset and doesn’t understand? You “can’t take it any more.” What is that about? Is it your own insecurities?

I hope I am one of those “other members” that offers support, in my own little way. And it pleases me that you are amazed. I speak only for myself here not for any other girl or any other member.

I wonder why is it that when someone steps out of line, out of the norm as defined by society in general, there's a rush to get him back in, instead of an interest in where he is going. I think it's always difficult when you have the weight of expectations pulling you back into a rut you think it's time to step out of - any kind of rut. More so when it's got to do with a subject that people have hangups about, like sexuality. People feel comfortable when they know what to expect from the others in their lives, and when something unexpected happens, it makes them revise their worldview to a greater or lesser extent. After all, if they were wrong about you, what secrets are the rest of their friends/family keeping?

If my girlfriend told me she was a lesbian or that she was pregnant I would have to do some re-thinking. But if she knows I am patient and love her regardless, she can step out of her safe little box and her worldview will get adjusted. It's just so scary, not knowing how everybody is going to react. Perhaps you have been fortunate and have never been scared in your life but it helps to have people to talk to who know what you're going through, or at least who are solidly supportive no matter what, and that is partly why people come here. I hope you have or can find people like that to stand by you whenever you need it.

Fantasy ends and reality begins exactly where any individual draws the boundaries for themselves. If you change your thoughts you can change your world by moving your boundaries. I applaud you greatly for having the temerity and the plumbing to voice your opinion at the risk of being stoned to death, but on the other hand attitudes like yours smack of a lack of understanding.

Yes, you are guys in dresses and a large percentage of you are never going to pass. A lot of women barely make the grade themselves. How many billions are spent by women on botox, breast augmentation and liposuction in their attempt to be a better looking female? Be honest with her and she will terminate you as though you were a praying mantis.

I think there are multiple answers, not for me, but for you. I have my answer. To me you are guys in dresses and you are NOT women as you say. Answers for you will depend on what questions are asked, where you stand as an individual and how open you are.

I respectfully disagree with you about your plumbing. You do have the correct kind.

Paige

[MarciManseau]

IMHO, I feel Charlotte has a valid point. I've commented before that I'm not sure it's fair to others to say, "Oh, you look great!" when at times, they don't. A few times I've said you do look nice, but with shorter hair, different shoes, etc, you'd look much nicer.

That's how Julie has helped me over the years, refiining my 'look' with constructive criticism, not negative comments. If I ask her how do I look in a certain pair of pants, she might say I look fine, but you'd look totally hot in that cute red skirt we bought last week.

Maybe from now on if someone posts a pic and asks, "How do I look?" they might also add, "and please be honest. I really want helpful comments, not just compliments." :2c: :2c:


Hugs, Marci :hugs:

[KimberlyS]

Charlotte, while there is truth to your post you are generalizing a bit much. Yes some push the reality versus fantasy point on a line. And I am sure many here could use a wakeup call or slap upside the head. Yes some over encourage. But for the most part those here tell it like it is and in a nice way.

I know I am a guy and always will be. I know that I do not pass at 25 or more yards. But sometimes I am treated at a woman would be. Yes that makes me feel good but not my goal. I just want to be treated as a person. I also know society is more accepting than many many CD/TG's think it is. I have been told some of my out and about stories are fantasy and make believe. If they were I was sleep walking and sometimes with my wife.

For the most part things here and everywhere on the internet need to be taken with a bit of common sense. And I will not go into who has that and who doesn't. Everything here does not relate to everyone that is here. Only a very small part of what is on this site may relate to you directly. We are all very different in our likes, needs, wants and many other ways. Learn from this site but do not take every thing as the gospel truth. While some of the unbelievable and believable things may not be true, many are true both the believable ones and unbelievable ones.

Much of our reality is within our own heads. :2c:

kimberlys-cd
joe in a skirt

[staxscd]

while there are a few of us that have feminie traits and can "pass" and genuinely look good in a dress, the majority of us are and can admit that we are just guys in a dress and thats where we like to be and where we fit.
personally i do it to relax and unwind,
On the odd occasion where i go all out i do my best to look convincing, and i know im not maybe 60% at best.
The trouble with this board is that there are members who do thier best and are looking for encouragement and support which is fine, but to tell a member who is possibly looking for encouragement to venture out into the twisted world out there that they look great when really they are only 60% there is cruel in itself and could possibly do more damage than good.

just my two cents worth , and not looking to pick a fight.

remember support doesnt meen always being nice:2c:

[Tamara Croft]

I was being facitious:D. I knew it's name was some sort of desk accessory!
Love ya, mean it, LilyI meant... no it's not the same person... although it sure could be :rolleyes:

[Lisa Gerrie]

To the original poster...

I think you are completely missing the point. I've been lurking here for over a year and it seems to me that for most of us, passing isn't something we do, it's something we aspire to. For some mysterious reason, it's an internal goal.

For me personally the whole things is visual. When I look in the full-length mirror, the closer I am to "passing" -- the fewer flaws I see -- the happier I am. I have no idea why! It just is, and apparently it always will be. I never go out in public, but appearing female to myself makes me feel good.

Look, not one human soul on Earth can truly control what Turns Us On. We are animals, imprinted in our youths, and after puberty we really have no choice. It's visceral, it just happens. We either go with the flow, or resist and usually fail.

So similar souls gather in places like this board, and we encourage each other. We tell each other that we have nice legs, or whatever. What is it about that that upsets you?

[Tamara Croft]

Well I just went on a hunt looking for Charlottes pictures... and guess what.... THERE ARE NONE!!! So, how dare YOU CHARLOTTE, infact... why do you have a female name?? you're a man in a dress?? so wtf... the more I read this thread, the more you've seriously pissed me off... and even more so, because you don't even have the damn balls to come back online and see what you've done... only one more thing to say about you :loser:

nuff said!!!

[Celeste]

Whats so horribly wrong with someone giving their all, in an attempt to pass,even when they don't or never will.Why does this offend you so?Are you about ready to crack or something.Is this like "Falling down".Why are you here if you feel this way?Just who are you, that you feel the right to pass judgment on others irregardless of where they stand in the spectrum of passing.Maybe you should stick with taking candy from kids or something.

[Deborah Jane]

Are you the same Charlotte Church who posted a thread entitled Playboy Magazine on 1-12-2008 ?...Part of your opening statement said...Quote.."I am not here to judge but to learn"..Unquote..Whassup..You fancy yourself as a judge now then??
Grow up..Get a life and leave others to enjoy theirs!! If you can,t handle forums like this, why join??

[Marcie Sexton]

Charolette, what you say is true. sure the vast majority will/won't pass in public, however, for what ever reason we choose, we have chosen to fight the good fight...Strive to becomepublic presentable...

While I have never been called the brightest light on the tree, I also know for various reasons, I'll always have problems passing publicly, height being the biggest hurdle. BUT...it is always good to hear a good word spoken in your support. This not only goes for us trying to be the woman in us, but for any thing...It does feel good whenyou've given your best at work and the boss says "well done", or helping out at the house with the S.O.

So yea it may very well be true, and yes those of us who won't pass know it, but hey give it a break...

How does the saying go?

Throw the dog a bone...isn't it so much more fun to feel good about yourself knowing you've tried and it shows by your "friends" <?> acknowledging so...


Me too Debra Jane, me too...well said...

after all those that live in glass houses wouldn't dare throw rocks would they ?

[Emily Ann Brown]

Thank you Charlotte.....you accomplished something.....you got Anne Ahnimus to quit lurking and do her first post...and a very good one too Anne!


Emily Ann

[RobertaFermina]

Charlotte,


First of all EVERY ONE OF US should read the STICKY on "Safety". No matter how good we look, we are prey to the sicker element that lurks about out there!


You seem to be bringing a masculine perspective to a feminine issue.

"Do I look Fat ?"

If you are a man with an S.O. you know it is the third rail of spousal/partner relations.

The question is as much "Do you love me and want to be seen with me ?" or "Are we OK?" or "Are you still madly in love with me" as it is "Does my apparent girth exceed scientific BMI guidlines?".

So when someone asks "how do I look", they really have to give permission for a technical or unbiased-aesthetic response.

We are in relationship with each other and feelings DO matter !

Moreover, some girls are going out regardless, why send them forth with lowered self esteem, when looks are not important when it comes to forging relationships ?

And again, some girls are NEVER going out, so why leave them sequestered in their rooms feeling ugly and hopeless (from exaggerating simple unbiased responses) ?

Then there's the girls who ASK FOR IT, "tell me REALLY", just like when a partner asks me "REALLY", I have to assess if she really means it, before I take her at her word. So when I really think I have a bona-fide "Tell me Really" it is a GREAT OPPORTUNITY to give someone accurate feedback. I love it when I get that request !

Even then, it is humane to mix criticism with positive reinforcement of the possibility of improvement.

Then there's the girls who ask for feedback when (#!*&#37;%%%$$$-It!) they KNOW they look AWESOME! I HATE THEM...because I love them so much for setting an example of what we all might accomplish when we decide to go for it!

I know my answer is as clear as mud, and that is par for the course in human relations.

Have a Great Day, Charlotte !

:rose: Roberta :rose:


P.S. the answer to "Do I look Fat?" is....."Honey, I'm going to have to beat back the other men/(girls?) with a stick when I have a beauty like you on my arm !". Even if she thinks I'm lying, she knows she can depend on my devotion, affection, and protection *in addition* to her own self-confidence and charm.

[kerrianna]

Charlotte, what was your motivation for starting this thread in the first place?

Are you still so immature as to think you can change people by speaking your mind? Do you really think everybody in the world is so thick that they don't know what's going on and you are bound to open their eyes and show them the truth?

How's that been working for you in your life?


You seriously misjudged the people on this site and I think you owe them an apology.

By judging others you do not define them, you define yourself. And Charlotte, honey, you have quite sadly defined yourself by going ahead and starting this negative thread.

[Lisa Gerrie]

Thank you, Emily Ann.

[Sandra]

I agree honest opinoins should be given but you've just lumped everyone together, well I for one give an honest opinion, if I think that they would look better by trying something different then I will say so but it is only a suggestion.

As for ""We're NOT women" yes your right your not, accept for the TS's and I would imagine that those few words have upset a lot of them.

[KelliBennett]

Our hands, our feet and our shoulders are too big. Our faces are too square. We have no boobs, we have no arses, we have no hips and our knees are too knobby.

I guess I should talk to my small hands, small feet about how they don't fit on a woman's body.

Not to mention the ass and hips I do have. People are shocked to learn I am not padded down there.

Seriously I am not perfect, few people really are, but there are real girls who have a more manly shape then I do.

For whatever reason, hormone imbalance, extra chromozone. Some pass better then others. I once met a girl who had transitioned after puberty you would never know she wasn't a genetic girl. I was fooled.

Generalizations like this are why bigotry and discrimination exist. Don't judge everyone lest ye be judged yourself.

Besides I always prefer to hear constructive opinions. It has to this day helped me look better.

[Carly D.]

Wow.. What a slap in the head.. ok not really to me, because I have said it before that I could pass in a dark ally and the person I was trying to fool was legally blind... but I agree that there are some (a lot actually) that don't pass and seem to be here to ask if they do and are looking for encouragement to go out dressed up, even though there's just no way they can pass.. I wear for the fact that I just like the way it feels to have pantyhose on my legs and high heels on my feet...

[Sheila]

Much of our reality is within our own heads. :2c:
kimberlys-cd
joe in a skirt

Kimberley ,

Thankyou,
that said it all ................... and not just for CD's but for each and everyone of us who aspire to be the best we can be at whatever we attempt ...sometimes we need that reality check though, lest we begin to believe in our own reality.

[Jennaie]

Charlotte, if your wife or girlfriend were to ask you if her pants made her butt look big, what would your answer be? When she ask you if she looks good enough to go out for dinner, how do you respond? Are you always honest with her?

You see, it's very difficult for me to critique someone without fearing hurting their feelings. In the case of your wife or girlfriend, she could easily end up crying, being angry with you and guess what? your eating alone, or worse, sleeping alone.

It's not much different here, I care about others feelings and I don't want to hurt someone else's feelings. So I do the best I can to offer them suggestions without being cruel.

As for passing, (meaning, not being clocked as a male) well, it takes a tremendous amount of work and sometimes that won't even get it done. I saw many days when I walked out of my apartment and looked into the sun with a mirror in front of my face and said, "sorry, thats not a woman, you can't go out today".

As a person who needs to pass to go out in public, I know exactly what it takes, but it took years for me to learn it.

Ladies, if passing is imperative to your going out, don't give up. Learn makeup, be so good at it that you marvel the girls at the mac counter. Study the women at the mall, emulate them.

I totally disagree with you Charlotte that most of us can't pass. Those of us who are cd may be nothing more than men in dresses, but that does not mean we are incapable of passing.

To those of you who say, "passing is not important, Don't worry about passing, passing is overrated", I would much rather hear you say, "For me, passing is not that important", and understand that for the person who desperately feels the need to pass, it's important to them, it's more important to them than you realize.

Charlotte, sometimes it's hard to understand why we compliment others or say nothing when perhaps we should honestly be telling them what faults we see, but then, why is it that I can walk around for over 2 hours in a mall only to finally come across someone who smiles and says, dude, your fly is open. :lol: Are we any different?

[Kieron Andrew]

just a thought, maybe Charlotte made this thread to get the reaction we are all giving? this way she's still getting attention?

[Sandygal]

Thank you Charlette. I do enjoy this site, but sometimes it starts to get to sweet. You can really tell the crossdressers from the ones that have taken a step further on. The claws really come out. I understand what you are saying and I think I know what you want to hear. Example...Someone sends in a picture of themselves and ask us our opinions. Right away people write back how great you look. But one person writes back and says you look nice, but try to smile, cover your beard a little better and maybe tone down the eyeliner. I think thats the person who is really helping. Everyone else just tells you how wonderfull you look, which is nice, but its not helping you further your dreams.

[Margot]

You're all too kind to Charlotte and wasted too many key strokes.
Just tell "HIM" to get stuffed!!!:tongueout
Margot

[MarciManseau]

Thank you Charlette. I do enjoy this site, but sometimes it starts to get to sweet. You can really tell the crossdressers from the ones that have taken a step further on. The claws really come out. I understand what you are saying and I think I know what you want to hear. Example...Someone sends in a picture of themselves and ask us our opinions. Right away people write back how great you look. But one person writes back and says you look nice, but try to smile, cover your beard a little better and maybe tone down the eyeliner. I think thats the person who is really helping. Everyone else just tells you how wonderfull you look, which is nice, but its not helping you further your dreams.

EXACTLY :2c: In my humble opinion exactly!


Hugs, Marci :hugs::hugs:

[Nicki B]

All I hear is pain, Charlotte... :sad:

I think what you're really talking about is yourself - and you want us to beat up on you, to help with the guilt you feel?


Well, I'm not going to - I think you need help more than anything, so you can see if that fantasy can be made to come true? :hmmm:

Well..... I didn't, but sadly, everybody else did. :(

Looks like you got your wish, kiddo. Does it really feel any better, now? :rolleyes:

[Shelly Preston]

I think thats the person who is really helping. Everyone else just tells you how wonderfull you look, which is nice, but its not helping you further your dreams.


Hi Sandygal

Sorry but I have to disagree

This is primarily a support site and a lot of the time some need to be told they look nice

Thats a big difference from being told you are passable

[Sheila]

Hi Sandygal


This is primarily a support site and a lot of the time some need to be told they look nice



Shelley then try being a GG ... and holding a different viewpoint .... To Charlotte Cross I have felt like saying in the words of old Gentlman Jim " welcome to my world"...............

[AmandaM]

<<Our hands, our feet and our shoulders are too big. Our faces are too square. We have no boobs, we have no arses, we have no hips and our knees are too knobby....>>

Well, if I looked like Hulk Hogan I wouldn't dress either! Maybe you should find a different hobby?

[Nigella]

"You'll never be sorry for what you don't say " is Charlottes Signature

I bet she will be sorry for what she did day. :devil:

[jennifer41356]

All this coming from someone who wont post a picture, I think most of the gals hear look very good as women. Take a look around there are women who look manly. At the store i work, there is a lady there who looks very manly and one of the women in my Dept said that this gal looked like a man, she has broad shoulders and sort of manly hands and yet she is a woman and is treated thusly

The key is to be yourself, be confident and enjoy the ride, there are many places one can go and not be passable and still dress like a woman:2c:


Our hands, our feet and our shoulders are too big. Our faces are too square. We have no boobs, we have no arses, we have no hips and our knees are too knobby.
We certainly don't have the correct plumbing.

We're NOT women.

We're guys in dresses looking for an answer that does not exist.

Speak for yourself:mad:

[Amy07]

Great post, Charlotte! Breaks up the monatony here, too. And you are not the first to make those comments. We all like to dress to whatever level we want to, including going out or not. Depends on you, where you live, and how far you want to go. I don't want to see anybody get hurt, so I suggest caution to girls who say it is time to go out to a club or to Walmart. I like your spirit and you avatar!

[HalloweenDragon]

:devil:I don't hate you!:devil:

Seriously, I have no problem with your opinion. And you have every right to your opinion. Just never single anyone out. I know a couple of CD's that should NEVER venture out without the proper gender covering them. I have much love for them, I think they are sexy as hell, but "society" and religion does not accept us.

If I shave my face clean, I am mistaken for a woman even in mens clothing. I had a guy ask if I was a dyke, and refused to believe I was a man until I proved it.

I do not go out in public in drag too much (of course I mean without my usual covering clothes). When I do I am like a ninja in the shadows. I have stripped down and run around, but if anyone comes near me I am gone! Driving down the street dressed up is fun also.

I'm new to the community, I noticed no one using the word "drag". I love it, I love gothic, and stipper type stuff. I always jokingly call my clothes my "****" clothes! When I'm asked about how I like to look I say "Like a ****!" My name here is my birthday and year, but I like the play on words. I hope no one gets offended by it, cuz I love it! :tongueout

[meg_dc_00]

The self loathing of Charlotte and Bobby Ann is terribly obvious, I feel sorry for them both. Both seem preoccupied on how they might be perceived when dressed.

I'm way too tall to ever pass, but everytime I've gone out it's been ridiculously fun. If you want to meet a hot woman, go out to a laid-back gay bar en femme and they'll accost you with attention.

Both Charlotte and Bobby Ann are intentionally being trouble makers due to their conflicted feelings, but it makes things a little more interesting around here, to have two "Puck"s in our cyber Real-World...lol...

[Angie G]

Well some can and do pass and others are having fun trying so let them and me have our Fantasy's it don;t hurt :hugs:
Angie

[TxKimberly]

Wow - four pages of responses already! No question you riled up plenty of people.
You know there is a line that must be walked if you care to be part of society. You must try to be kind and try to be honest, and sometimes these DO conflict. As someone else pointed out, you are in the "Does this dress make me look fat?" sort of catch 22, but this time we are not talking about a dress, we are talking about a human being with feelings. No, we are not going to look at each other here and say "Girl, you are UUUUGGGGLLLLYYY!". Again, your speaking of a human being here, not a dress.
Now if someone is thinking of walking through a Military/biker/skin head/<Insert your ultra macho group here> dressed and asks you "Gee, do you think I can pass well enough?" then maybe you need to try and figure out how to tell her as softly as possible "No dear, I think you should reconsider".
But regardless of the situation or the person, you don't trot up to them and say "Your fat, old, ugly, have a beard and a square jaw, huge shoulders, and you ought to hide in a closet!"
That would be rude, cruel, and heartless, wouldn't it?
Another thing I would caution you against is ever saying that ANYTHING applies to all. This is a lesson I have learned myself here. NOTHING applies to EVERYONE. To say that NONE can pass is either showing profound ignorance, or a clear intent to be mean.
I have personally met Tgirls that were drop dead gorgeous and we all know of celbrities like Tula. Tula made was a (James) Bond girl - don't tell me she didn't pass. She was living the dream until someone familiar with her history outed her. There are any Tgirls that pass, but I would guess that as they ARE passing, they are probably happily living their lives out in the world instead of visiting Tfriendly clubs or Internet forums.
You know I started this post off thinking "mad, nah she didn't make me mad," but the more I think about it the madder I'm getting. I think your post was heartless. If YOU are upset that your not a Barbie Doll (I'm pissed as hell that I'm not) then fine come in here and yell like the rest of us when we feel low, but to walk in and be mean to everyone here was uncalled for.

[Rachel Morley]

Our hands, our feet and our shoulders are too big. Our faces are too square.
Speak for yourself! My hands are smaller than my wife's, I take a US women's size 8 shoe (UK size 6) and my shoulders only look slightly bigger because I have no hips ... but HELLO ... ever heard of padding? ... that goes for boobs too. Oh, and you might have knobby knees but mine are fairly normal looking.

We certainly don't have the correct plumbing.
What's that got to do with being a crossdresser?


We're NOT women. ... We're guys in dresses looking for an answer that does not exist.Ah ... now we're getting the crux of the issue. You might be looking for an answer that doesn't exist but most of us here already have the answer. We are what we are ... people who like to dress and feel comfortable with themselves by expressing a gender that is not "all one" or "all of another". Ok, so it happens to be "non-mainstream" but while we all try to look as good as we can (passable?) it's not the "be-all" or "end-all" of being a crossdresser.

I like Windy's take on things:

Sweetheart, you just can't generalize like that ...like most things in nature, it's a bell-shaped curve: on either ends of the curve are those who are drop-dead passable or hopeless, and in the middle are the rest, who might be able to pull it off with the right makeup, clothes and bearing.

[shirley1]

i dont know if i could pass i do think there is a difference between being passible and looking good dressed as a women - i know i look good dressed but passing is a different kettle of fish - i have small hands slim phsique (cant spell !) tall for a girl but not incredibly tall at 5ft 10inches - and dont have a particulary prominent adams apple - but i have a deep voice and a large nose for a girl - other cders who saw me once at a house visit event said i would pass - i am going to a tg meeting this monday evening (cant wait) saw a girl on a bus this morning and i have virtually the same clothing as she was wearing - i think i could pass but for me the biggest problem is confidence i will probably shit myself the first time as i lack confidence in myself at the best of times anyway and have been known to suffer from anxiouty and panic attacks - but its something i want to do if only once (go out in public dressed) how many people on here that havnt been out just wonder what its like to walk down a street dressed people seeing you particulary women wonderin what its like - to see a girl dressed just like you - what a thrill it would be to see a girl wearing the same skirt as you walkin past you - now i really need to calm down !

[Kathy Renee]

Charlotte,

You say “You can’t handle the truth” – Well sweetheart, virtually every crossdresser in this forum has handled the ultimate truth of accepting themselves for who they are…a crossdresser. What you mention in your post is minutia compared to accepting and handling this truth.

I have not posted any pictures because in my 50 years of CDing, I have never had a picture taken. As soon as I do have a picture, I will post it and ask, “How do I look?” I will be giddy doing this and reading the responses. Fantasy, maybe, but in my dual world of male/female, it is my reality. It has been my experience in the male world that just as much fantasy exits. In rural Louisiana where I was raised, the male, biggest bad**s, proud-to-be-stupid mentality was the male reality. I think this male reality is in truth, a crocked up male fantasy. So Charlotte, you tell me what is real and what is fantasy.

You say - “We're guys in dresses looking for an answer that does not exist.” – I may be a male in a dress but I have feelings that are very much different than when I am in my male life. I accept these feelings as the expression of my feminine self. For me, accepting the fact that I was a crossdresser was my answer and everything else has been icing on the cake.

[LilSissyStevie]

Our hands, our feet and our shoulders are too big. Our faces are too square. We have no boobs, we have no arses, we have no hips and our knees are too knobby.

If you're just talking about me, you're correct. Thank you for being so kind as to not mention that I'm also old, bald, flabby, hirsute and butt ugly. You see, I can handle the truth and I love every minute of it.


We certainly don't have the correct plumbing.

There I must disagree. My plumbing is what makes me a crossdresser.


We're NOT women.

Nor would I like to be one.


We're guys in dresses looking for an answer that does not exist.

But what is the question?

[Sandygal]

Wow Amanda, are you saying someone big like Hulk Hogan shouldn't dress and who says he can't. I'm as big as Hulk Hogan and I love to dress. You kinda sound like the head cheerleader who thinks she is better than everyone else. Don't get snippy Amanda,I'm just trying to ruffle your panties. Oh noooo!Mr.Bill, I hope this doesn't cost me two demerits.

Ok, I think this thread has been burned, beaten and stomped into the ground. Lets get back to the important questions. What color panty goes best with red wine?

[secretlypsycho]

and I must say I'm surprised at how angry, defensive & reactive many of the posts are!! sure, #1 was making some pretty sweeping generalisations and of course they're not going to apply to every individual here, but then they're not supposed to (hence the whole "general" part, not each person specifically). Maybe there's some posting "history" that I'm unaware of as a newbie, but I tend to take each post on face value anyway, even in forums where I've been a member for a long time and feel like I know people. Anyway, I have some random thoughts that have cropped up while I've been reading....

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that I do agree with part of what #1 says in some way at least. I do think that SOME CDers must have rose tinted glasses on when they look in the mirror if they can't see that they don't look like a woman and wouldn't "pass" in public. And I don't think that telling them they do look "passable" is in any way helpful or the right thing to do if it simply isn't true. (and I did say SOME - not all, but SOME, okay??). And of course, the comments in #1 were clearly aimed at those who are attempting to "pass" to go out in public and those who are less than honest in their responses to them, not those who don't care either way if they "pass" or not (regardless of whether they're leaving the house).

I dunno - If people are posting photos and looking simply for an ego-boost or to be told they look nice, then maybe they should say so... post a photo with the question "do I look nice?" or "don't I look great", but if they're really looking for genuine feedback or opinions or advice then perhaps "what do you think?" is more appropriate???

As for the number of responses comparing it to women asking their partner "do I look fat in this" um, well I would very much hope my husband would give me an honest answer were I to ask this question or a similar one - I'm not looking for him to lie to me, or to tell me what he thinks I want to hear, I'm asking his opinion and want the truth. I would be absolutely devastated if I went out in public looking ridiculous because he'd lied to me and said it looked okay (and I'd probably be absolutely furious with him too!). I have no desire to look ridiculous or be a laughing stock personally. Which is why I ask his opinion in the first place - not to receive some misplaced ego-boosting!

I was also rather bemused by the comments that #1 hasn't even posted a photo - well so what? does a photo now make someone's posts or opinions more or less valid? I can think of a lot of perfectly valid reasons for choosing not to post photos online personally!

I see #1 has copped a lot of flack for being negative. Well, maybe it was a bit - but a lot is in the mind of the reader and how you interpret the written words.... and even if it was negative, so?? we don't all have to be happy CD cheerleaders all the time you know, and we all have off days, where things get to us.... you don't even want to get me started on what irrirates me some days, rofl! And where some people are more naturally diplomatic, tactful or tend to "sugar-coat" things, others are naturally more blunt, to the point and brutally honest. Can't please everyone all the time! I must admit, I did LOL at the amateur psychologists and their "you sound like you have issues" responses - why can it not just be as simple as what is posted? Why can't #1 have just reached that "I can't stand it anymore" point and told it how he sees it?

[JaytoJillian]

Ok, I think this thread has been burned, beaten and stomped into the ground. Lets get back to the important questions. What color panty goes best with red wine?

Yay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Cherry Lynn]

Charlotte really livened things up around here.

[Sallee]

I think I pass but Charlolette is right we can pass some of the time with some people all of the time with some people but we can't pass all the time with all the people. But who cares are we having a good time? Usually.
Like I read some here some where It is all about the trip nut the arrival.

[Dalece]

Good post I feel there are a lot of real GG s in this world can't pass either and some of us look better than they do. I say a GG that was twice the size of me. But it is a race a game a hobbie or what ever. We all have are nitch in this world and for us if it is to CD than more power to us. Panties that don't show the re wine stains.

[camera_laura]

Speak for yourself, because you're sure as hell not speaking for me.

Karen Starlene :star:

While I may not pass (yet), that dosen't stop me from trying to be 'all that I can be' (Chicago someday).

And above all, it doesn't stop me from enjoying 'being my feminine me'


REALITY CHECK!

I love this site!
I love to dress like a woman!
I'll never pass as a woman!!
I'm still a man!

#1 - AMEN
AMEN
Well, duh!
Damn glad!

[Susan.]

I think you are generalizing way too much. You and I are both ex-marines and think a lot alike but are still different. I'm jealous of your home situation, while you seem to be questioning it. Just remember that we are all different. There are not two people here that are alike.

You use, "Hello girls". I don't use that phrase or similar ones like hugs, kisses or ladies, etc. I guess because I think of myself as a man in a dress.

I guess I haven't been reading the threads about anyone being flabbergasted about not being able to pass. While I'm sure they have existed, I don't think that is a big topic here. It is more like, I wish I could pass... I wish I could too, but I ain't holding my breathe.

Support is what this place is about. So you shouldn't be amazed. I find myself only giving true compliments. So personally, I'm not very supportive, unlike most of the gracious people here. But we are all different.

In the picture forum, if someone asks replies to be honest, mine are. If someone asks to be kind, then I am. I don't think anyone here is really delusional. We know are flaws. Luckily, not many here are as self-conscious as you and me. I consider that to be one of my greatest weaknesses.

We are all different, but we are here because we share one thing in common.

[crusadergirl]

Can i handle the truth hell yeah. I do think your wrong on acouple of things you have said. One thing my hands aren't to big i don't know about my hipps are my face i believe i can pass for the most part. Now thats if i want to pass. I have got some bad comments on here before none so far about how i look but i really didn't ask.
You should tell the truth of how others look but you don't have to be really mean to them. If i don't like someones look i don't post anything at all are even if i do like it still i may say nothing. B/c i can't comment on every pic or post that is on here. As for a man in a dress i really don't see myself as one i'm just me soon to be girlprodigy are nothing at all.

[heidi99]

Wow, some folks just seem to thrive on controntation. No matter how many times Mom told you that the stove was hot, just had to touch it anyway.

I've seen a lot of opinions on this thread about remaining honest but trying to give constructive criticism. I tell the truth when I post, and try to find something positive to say. If I can't find anything positive, ta-da, I don't post anything.

I almost wrote that it is part of assuming a feminine role, but I have to correct myself. Part of being a good PERSON is practicing civility and trying to bring the very best out of our fellow human beings.

If we stop starting ugly threads, perhaps the world will eventually be a better place. Not saying debate is a bad thing, but whacking the hornet's nest because it is there is a bit foolhardy unless one accepts the fact that one is gonna get stung. :2c:

[Shelly67]

Oh well , tell you what this post may be the truth , but I,d have a great more respect if you,d post a pic of yourself for all of us to judge . We arent cruel , judgemental or scornful . If everyone was as considerate then perhaps the world would be a better place .

People in glass houses shouldnt throw stones .

[sandra-leigh]

I do think that SOME CDers must have rose tinted glasses on when they look in the mirror if they can't see that they don't look like a woman and wouldn't "pass" in public. And I don't think that telling them they do look "passable" is in any way helpful or the right thing to do if it simply isn't true. (and I did say SOME - not all, but SOME, okay??).

Do I "pass"?

- a number of people who have met me as a guy have had no difficulty recognizing me en femme, including some at a distance in a dark bar

- cab drivers tend to call me "sir" even when I am en femme

- at the GLBT club I go to sometimes, several people have spoken to me, obviously having recognized that I am a guy

- I do not get "Ma'm"'d very much

Tentative conclusion: NO, I must be fairly easy to "read"

Do I pass?

- When I am en femme, very few people on the street or in the bus or in the mall give me a second glance -- or even a first glance, for that matter: most people do not even focus on me.

- When people do give me a second glance on the street, it tends to be when I am wearing something more attractive than the average jeans-and-a-top -- i.e., people's attention is attracted by a nice presentation. I have yet to notice any of those people get annoyed or upset or disgusted or what-not as would not be unexpected if they had looked over and decided that I was a guy

- So far I've only noticed one stare (and it was a long one -- from a woman I've seen around a couple of times, always frowning)

- I have had sincere compliments about my legs and butt (including from one person who I'm fairly sure did not read me... perhaps because he never saw my face)

- I have been told that I make a "beautiful woman" (by someone I did not know), and told I look good (by several people I know a bit but who would likely not have said anything if I didn't look nice)

Refined conclusion: I might not "pass" (in the sense of being accepted as a woman even by most people I interact with) -- but I am "passable" (in the sense that my female presentation is good enough not to attract the much attention from people I do not interact with.)

Even the people who recognize that I am a guy seldom care, or if they do, they often encourage me (well, the women anyhow.)

It depends what one's goals are: to be female enough to "fool" people who are interacting with you? To be female enough to pass muster as female to those who are paying moderate attention to your appearance (attention perhaps attracted by you appearing to be an attractive female)? To be female enough not to draw attention? To feel good about what one is doing?

Me? It varies. Usually, I'm in it to feel good about what I'm doing (in which case I might not care at all if I'm read, or might {like tonight} dress in noticeably female clothes while still being obviously male). Sometimes I'm happy just to "blend", looking female enough to be ignored. I have never much attempted to "fool" people I am interacting with, and doing so is not a noticeably strong impulse for me. But myself, I think I would like to be able to dress well and look attractive enough to get admiring looks and have passers-by turn away thinking I was good-looking and/or had good taste.


My suspicion is that many people on the forum aspire to roughly the same goal as I, that the mindset we have is not "I'd be happy for nearly everyone to think I was Female, even if they thought I was plain or even downright unattractive"; instead the mindset we have is more "I'd be pretty happy for a noticeable number of people to think I was an attractive female, even if the majority of people just basically left me alone or treated me decently if they noticed I was a guy". It doesn't bother me to be "read" if I am treated decently enough -- but I aspire to turn a few heads. (I must admit, though, that I do not aspire that strongly enough to spend much time in front of the mirror practicing makeup or getting the right eyebrow shape, etc..)

[Joy Carter]

You go right ahead Charlott and state the way you feel. I'd not be the one to not support you, and how you think. But that's why we all are here, right ?:D

[sillyfish]

Well first off i do it for the fun of it, not so that i can become a girl or whatnot because you're right, we are all men. If we were all women then we wouldnt be here on this website, we would be out there doing something other than this with our lives. So consider the nature of this website thoroughly.

And there are some of us who can pass, believe it or not. I've gone from being dressed as a boy to being dressed as a girl to my friends and they did not even recognize me. My friend even gave me a hug and introduced herself to me as if i was a completely different person (at that point she screamed and freaked out becuase she had no idea that i was me)
So yeah, some of us have an ability to pass and other dont, its just what we do is something we enjoy and thats all it really comes down too. If you dont enjoy it you probably shouldnt do it.

[Celeste]

I wanted to add one more item.If one says to another CD "you look good" well then, isn't that their interpretation and aren't we entitled to that.I mean if what I see in my minds eye is beauty, and I say that,shouldn't that stand alone as my interpretation not to be scrutinized.I guess what burned me the most about the original post was that it seemed to place "passing " in an either "you do or you don't" category.My idea of passing is always changing and everyone has their own unique ability's and quality to admire so it seemed rather narrow minded to just say you pass or you don't.It does suggest to all the people who are really trying hard to just give it up.It's the learning and growing with this that makes it fun and I wouldn't want to miss that "striving" part.

[Nicki B]

It seems a shame, to me, that so many people are taking this solely about themselves - surely we as trans need to fight against self-obsession?

To me it seems plain that this thread is about the fears and self-loathing of the person starting it.. She needed some sympathy, not everyone just putting the boot in? :sad:


Edit - But I see she's reading the thread - I wonder if she'll come back and comment? :hmmm:

[Tracy_Victoria]

Hello girls. You'll probably all hate me by the time you finish reading this post, but I can't take it any more.

I'm flabbergasted when one of you can't understand why you cannot pass in public as a woman.
I'm even more amazed at the amount of support you receive from other members here.

I know this is a support group, but where does fantasy end and reality begin?

Isn't it about time we all quit being so nice and try being a little more honest with our opinions?
Why is it that most everyone is is so afraid to hurt someone's feelings? Or is it that by you telling someone they look good when they really don't, it will make you feel better about yourself?

I would think that if you told someone the truth, they might think twice before going out and getting embarrassed, or beat up, or even worse.

Our hands, our feet and our shoulders are too big. Our faces are too square. We have no boobs, we have no arses, we have no hips and our knees are too knobby.
We certainly don't have the correct plumbing.

We're NOT women.

We're guys in dresses looking for an answer that does not exist.

ooohhhh!

What a post got to have my :2c: with this one.

Okay Charlotte firstly nice thought prevoking post. Also very honest. However as a race we tend not to be as honest as we should, ie you would never tell a good friend who have just spent £100 (£200) bucks on a hair cut, wig, new dress, that basically it look b@@@@@ aweful. you may be truthful, but most would not be hurtful.

Personally I think there is to much blowing smoke on all sites, and I personally don't agree with the "oh you look wonderful brigade" if they don't! not only is it not trueful, it can be dangerous, certainly if someone is told they can pass with ease and they clearly can't.

However for those that can't, there are those that can!


Our hands, our feet and our shoulders are too big. Our faces are too square. We have no boobs, we have no arses, we have no hips and our knees are too knobby.
We certainly don't have the correct plumbing.

We're NOT women..

A general assumsion like this is very wrong, there are manly woman, and feminine men, and each in each others clothes can and do pass!

ie in my own case I have passed out endless times, I have very small hands, I have a big arse, I use the right clothes to hide the male bums, and fake bits to enhance the feminine ones, and there are a lot of girls out there that dress and pass a lot easier than me.

Personally I don't think you can say yes I can pass, or no I can't! we all have good and bad days, and some can do this with ease, I've meet and seen woman I wouldhave judged to have been very, very masculine, and yet, there female, so just saying we don't have the right bits doesn't mean we can't pass, the secret is to create doubt as to your real gender role, and enchance and create a fem illusion over that of your masculine self.

[Colleentg]

OMG! It takes one to know one - that's what my mom used to say! The pot calling the kettle black! Speak ONLY for yourself. Do not include everyone else who might fit your problem. If life is so bad for you, stay indoors, the rest of us aren't labeled as you picture yourself! I doubt no one here put you down, you have no right to put anyone else down. There are some who don't expect to pass, and there are some who do pass quite well. Not everyone fits into the same category. Some work very hard to look good, some just have it, it doesn't matter. Leave my girls alone!

Yes, I love to argue to win!

[LACD]

You may be right. I look on this sight and to me I see some really good looking ladies. Some, as mentioned, can pass quite easily, others like me probably have a harder time looking feminine. All I know is that when I go shopping I watch women and I see all sizes and sorts. Some are quite feminine while some look like they can hold their own with just about any man. Where I live a lot of women used to help on the boats and skining during trapping season. They are still ladies. I know I'll never pass as a GG, but I try my best to look good. My size works against me(6' 250lbs), but I see a lot of plus size GG's and the ones that have good taste in clohes are the ones I try to find like clothes. All I know is that my wife tells me how I look and she is particular about clothing. She reall helps me find good styles and really good bargains. I guess I'm making some kind of sense here, I just think we all havedifferent reasons for CD'ing so we all have different views. I think we are all in here for the same reason, so we all should be truthful, but we also should help each other.

[Bobby Anne]

Great post!
Really brought the rats outta the attic.
In the end though, it was much ado about nothing.
For me dressing used to be an obsessive thing; striving to look good and passing was an important issue. Nowadays its about feeling good and feminine
as I intermittently choose. Once again girls I state, it does fade given enough time. In the mean time do be very careful about your actions. Loosing family , friends and a job are not worth it. It's not them it is you!
Nothing wrong with being closeted. Going to a club is just a bigger closet too.
Walking The Mall seems to be the mode for passing.
Try walking a bad neighborhood if you think you really pass, thats the supreme challlenge.

[Tree GG]

I have to agree with the poster that it's amazing how many are taking personal offense to this thread. One piece of advice I rec'd along the line was "Get over yourself". Good advice for all.

What does offend me is the number of times I read "Many GG don't pass..." in this thread. WTF? Don't pass what? How can you not pass by just being who you are - what the genetic lottery bestowed on you? Don't pass the arbitrary beauty line set by a man in a dress who's been fantasizing about being what he sees in catalogs and glamour mags? That's offensive, superficial and shallow. :mad:

If anyone wants to CD, you go. If you're happy, not hurting anyone, feel good about yourself, and respectful of other's feeling I'll hold the door for you and wish you a nice day. I don't really care if you reach 'pass' on someone's beauty scale. I interpret Charlotte's thread as asking for a reality check. I know a few CDs that refuse to come to this site because of all the 'fantasy' threads out there. His exact words were "It gives us all a bad name". Now that's their opinion and they act accordingly (by not participating in this community).

[Bethany_Anne_Fae]

I have to agree with the poster that it's amazing how many are taking personal offense to this thread. One piece of advice I rec'd along the line was "Get over yourself". Good advice for all.

I know a few CDs that refuse to come to this site because of all the 'fantasy' threads out there. His exact words were "It gives us all a bad name". Now that's their opinion and they act accordingly (by not participating in this community).

So is one to infer youd rather not have us post here at all? Or that the CDs [I]you[I] know are too good to come here based on "fantasy threads". Sounds like they are a bit shallow themselves.

Now, as for the "reality break" yes, I agree completely. We could all do with a good old "get over yourself" moment every now and then.

There are too many shallow and resrntful peopl ein the world to deal with and we really don't need to add any more of them here.

Zara

[Ruth]

I love this thread because it brought out a lot of reaction. But Charlotte obviously has a lot of anger and resentment about CDing. When she says: "Our hands, our feet and our shoulders are too big. Our faces are too square. We have no boobs, we have no arses, we have no hips and our knees are too knobby." she has to be talking about her(him)self, not anybody else here, because how would she know?
I won't go on about my beautiful body (he he) but I can achieve a feminine look by observing that much of the point of dressing up is to make the best of what you have - accentuate what you want people to see, and conceal what you want to hide.
We are just imitating GGs in this. Many of us (perhaps not all of us) can make a fair go at resembling a woman when we are dressed up and made up. We're not going to look like film stars or supermodels, but most women don't either.
And we can be positive about this, and strive to look as good as we can, or we can be negative, and just say it can't be done.

[Tamara Croft]

But Charlotte obviously has a lot of anger and resentment about CDing. When she says: "Our hands, our feet and our shoulders are too big. Our faces are too square. We have no boobs, we have no arses, we have no hips and our knees are too knobby." she has to be talking about her(him)self, not anybody else here, because how would she know?Then instead of saying 'our' and 'we' he should have said 'mine' and 'I'... instead of lumping everyone else into his own self hating boat. If you want support on this forum, this isn't the right way to go about it is it? You can't sit there and write something like that and not expect a reaction to it. And he's even been back to this thread reading it and not bothered replying... so was it just posted to piss people off or not?

Oh and I'm referring to him as 'he' because as he stated... he's a man dammit...

[docrobbysherry]

I've been a member here long enough to know that there r a lot of closet, fetish, and/or fantasy CD's, like myself here. The members that resent us, need to move over to the, "guys-who-live-their-whole-life-as-women.com".
We r like the original crossdresssers, the way it was started 100's of years ago, after all.
RS

[Tracy_Victoria]

Then instead of saying 'our' and 'we' he should have said 'mine' and 'I'... instead of lumping everyone else into his own self hating boat. If you want support on this forum, this isn't the right way to go about it is it? You can't sit there and write something like that and not expect a reaction to it. And he's even been back to this thread reading it and not bothered replying... so was it just posted to piss people off or not?

Oh and I'm referring to him as 'he' because as he stated... he's a man dammit...

Very True.

Also is this post more through frustration. The thing I find most annoying is that the avitar of this person is the pictures of a very beautiful young lady. Well sorry we can't all be swans, however I'm just happy I can swim in the pond!

I still think we should ban real picture images that are not our own! Cartoon are fine we can see the person for what they wish to be Masks shows us the real poster be they hidden for what ever reason, sexual or security, and I don't have a problem with pictures of legs or no heads. but images of other Real woman you could never be. I still don't get.

:2c: :2c: :2c: :2c: :2c: :2c: :2c: :2c: :2c: :2c:

[MJ]

[QUOTE=Tree GG;1176696]
What does offend me is the number of times I read "Many GG don't pass..." in this thread. WTF? Don't pass what? How can you not pass by just being who you are - what the genetic lottery bestowed on you? Don't pass the arbitrary beauty line set by a man in a dress who's been fantasizing about being what he sees in catalogs and glamour mags? That's offensive, superficial and shallow. :mad:
If anyone wants to CD, you go. If you're happy, not hurting anyone, feel good about yourself, and respectful of other's feeling I'll hold the door for you and wish you a nice day.

Respect for all Tree is right from my point of view just for the record i do so enjoy talking with and getting Valued advice from our gg members we must be careful what we say .. is it any wonder most of our gg members won't post in here . with comments like * i pass better than a gg * Many gg Don't pass !!! * etc , etc ..
it hurts there feelings maybe we cd'r should get in touch with our feminine feeling too... then we will understand ...

so i ask you if a gg don't pass but is treated as a gg how did she do it .. maybe it's not about passing at all ..

Charlotte's was trying to be real .. just a poor choice of words . lets have a big group hugg and move on

[Amy Hepker]

I have seen some pretty bad looking GGs in my time, so I think a lot of the girls here look great. Yes, We are guys in female clothes, but we can be who we want to be and dress the way we want. If people cannot accept us then that's there problem. The way I see it if you use the right makeup in the right way you can look just as good as the average GG out there, I did not say the best looking GG. There are some here that do standout and look fabulious and they are so lucky, there are many here that have the body too, even though they are still male. I will not say to anyone that they do not pass, that is all in how you present yourself as to whether you pass or not. I have seen GGs out there that I swore up and down they were guys but were in fact GGs. I think we are who we are on the inside and the way we look on the outside should reflect who we are on the inside, not what we have to do to please the rest of the world. If you feel pretty and think you are pretty then you are no matter what anyone else says. I know it would be hard for me to do the so called Pass, but as long as I am happy that is all that matters.

For many, many years I thought I was the only one out there to be a guy and want to dress as a girl, but I have found out through books like Variations and other sex books that I am not the only one and when I found this forum and all the wonderful people here, that put me on the right path to my own happiness and well being. I can now be who I want at any time and that is up to me. I can do my makeup pretty good and the only thing that really bothers me is my facial hair, if I had the money I would get it taken off permently. There is a lot to passing as a female besides just the look, your mannerisms, your posture, your walk, your talk, ect, ect. Ya, you are right there are many here that may not look to convincing, but I know that if they are here they will continue their quest to be who they are inside and maybe they will develope on the outside to look as good as the average GG.

[Bobby Anne]

I love this thread because it brought out a lot of reaction. But Charlotte obviously has a lot of anger and resentment about CDing. When she says: "Our hands, our feet and our shoulders are too big. Our faces are too square. We have no boobs, we have no arses, we have no hips and our knees are too knobby." she has to be talking about her(him)self, not anybody else here, because how would she know?
I won't go on about my beautiful body (he he) but I can achieve a feminine look by observing that much of the point of dressing up is to make the best of what you have - accentuate what you want people to see, and conceal what you want to hide.
We are just imitating GGs in this. Many of us (perhaps not all of us) can make a fair go at resembling a woman when we are dressed up and made up. We're not going to look like film stars or supermodels, but most women don't either.
And we can be positive about this, and strive to look as good as we can, or we can be negative, and just say it can't be done.

Ohh contrair.

I believe Charolette is a tough journalist not afraid to ask cutting questions.
Our own Katie Kouric or Barbara Walters so to speak

[Vieja]

I really don't think you believe most of what you wrote. I think you just wanted to stir the pot and see what kind of a reaction you would get. You succeeded probably better than you expected in the reactions you got. Since I can never pass none of what you wrote really bothers me and I still love the feeling I get when I am dressed.

Vieja

[Tamara Croft]

Rather than members carry on getting upset over this thread, I'm going to close it until Charlotte can be bothered to post a reply. I think it is really rude that someone should come online and not even bother replying to their own thread, makes one think that HE really did post it to be a spiteful, vindictive person and that, will NOT be tollerated.

End of thread for now :mad: