a question for MtF CDers

[secretlypsycho]

just out of interest, what do you think femininity is, and/or what does being feminine/female actually mean in your view?? as a gg, I am just curious to know what it means from your perspective... :D

[GailTulane]

SP, for sure I associate the cliche soft, sweet, pretty, cute etc., with femininity, but my real feelings are best expressed by a previous post that might be helpful:

Some Thoughts
I originally began this as a reply to the role-playing post, but when I saw where it went, I thought that it might warrant a separate thread.
For me, there is no role playing here. This has been a deep part of me from a very young age. This is who I am, and I am never as truly comfortable as I am when I am expressing myself as a woman.
But something occurs to me that I have never really seen expressed: I do not necessarily believe that what I feel and call femme actually corresponds to what genetic women think and feel. Perhaps these "femme" feelings are unique to certain people born male, and no one, male or female, not in the same boat can truly identify. I am not out as myself to anyone who knows me as a male, and the only non-*T people I have spoken with, other than on the net, are men and women working in or patronizing clubs or bars that I go to dressed. That being said, thus far, the only true empathy I have found is with *T girls on various places on the spectrum.
So, apart from feeling that, for me personally, there is no question of role-playing, and that this is how I most comfortably identify, I question whether there is actually any role to play, because even a genetic woman is not exactly the person that I am expressing, not because of the obvious fact that I can not duplicate a GG, but because the very deep feelings that I am expressing are are not ones that are necessarily felt by and are truly characteristic of genetic women.
This could also be the reason why the vast majority of wives can't relate to their husbands' dressing; i.e., because the "femme" expressions of their husbands do not correspond to their innate and undeniable knowledge of what it means to be biologically female. No matter how the man looks or acts, every fiber of their being tells them that this is not female.
Anyway, those are a few thoughts of mine--I would love to hear what others think.
Warmly,
Gail

[Alisa]

Hi Anna,
This is a question that gets alot of play around here. I think the latest thread was started by Salandra under the title "Feeling Femme?". Here's the link:

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75544

...and of course my take on the subject.


Hi Salandra,

I think you know exactly what it means when its said “they feel really feminine” as I think we all do! We are conditioned from birth with that understanding of what it means to be male and female and how to behave appropriately. We are, after all, social beings and strive to conform to socially acceptable behavior for the role we are born to physically.

When we “dress” and present as a woman, we are released from those ingrained standards and are able to show emotion, express our feelings, etc and “feel really feminine.” The freedom to express ourselves; express our feelings is a direct result of the image of the feminine that we present. I’d even go so far as to say that the feeling of “wanting to attract the male of the species when dressed” that is often expressed by CD’s is a direct result of the way we are conditioned to behave (i.e. look like a girl => must attract a boy).

I’d argue that presenting as a woman does give you the freedom to express emotion and otherwise express your feelings whereas the male role, as currently defined by society, gives little opportunity for such expression.

My thoughts on the subject.

Love,
Alisa

Like I said, this is one of those topics that is discussed frequently and from a lot of different angles. You'll probably find that there are as many opinions about the subjects as there are girls on this forum.

Love,
Alisa

[Deborah Jane]

This is a hard question to answer. I don,t know how it feels to feel feminine as at the end of the day i,m a guy, but i don,t really know how i should feel as a guy either because i love being girly sometimes. For me personally being able to be "Debs" whenever i like makes me feel happy and complete. Not feminine, not masculine, just me!!

[Joy Carter]

One girl here defines what we do as "feeling pretty." I think that term keeps the GG's from being rubbed the wrong way.

[Kate Simmons]

Hi Hon, Being feminine can never really be quantified. It can , however, be qualified. While most of us, myself included, really don't know what it's like to be "feminine", we can nonetheless offer a close estimation based on our observation of the women that we know. Femininity in women is inborn and inherent and much admired by us sometimes stodgy guys, the physical beauty being part of it. We also admire the other traits though which is the natural ability for interpersonal skills and appreciation of others and family values which men have of course but which are "downplayed" because of our supposed role in society.CDing is sometimes a vehicle employed to get in touch with those feelings whether consciously or not.

Bottom line that many of us can fulfill our male role with no problem but we feel something is missing and that is the "special" feeling you all have of being feminine and whether you gals really have that "feeling" or not, we think you do and it's something to be desired and treasured. While it may seem like a somewhat bizarre way to emulate someone, it is a lot better than internalizing it and turning something we do not understand into rage and becoming a person that is abusive or harmful to others.

So, even if we really do not understand what being "feminine" is, what it implies is somewhat positive to many of us and that seems to be the motivation as I understand it.:happy:

[barbra]

for me its joy,happyness and the feeling of beying free of all the headacts of this world.i wish everday i was female.just my 2cents.:happy:

[Bravesoul]

Well,I now what masculinity is, so what every in left must be feminine.LOL. Just kidding. I like many not sure I know what it truley is. I did ask my wife that a while ago, and she did not give an answer that made any sences to me. I thought it would be anything pretty,cute and soft, but not sure.

[Angie G]

My thoughts are soft, , and dainty, with a delicate look :hugs:
Angie

[deja true]

WOW! Salandra has really hit it that nail on the head for me. I had to read her post twice to absorb it. That girl must be a philosophy professor somewhere. Her posts on every topic that I've read have been so insightful and well put that I look forward to seeing her icon pop up in any thread.

This post of hers should be put on a sticky in the FAB forum! It's wisdom could go a long way in explaining to reluctant SO's that their men are still men and still THEIR men and indeed that, in many cases, their desire to dress is actually a complement to their wives feminine qualities and natures. (Gosh, I made myself a little misty, there!)

As for me, I obviously agree with her insight. My reverence for the female is physically expressed by my desire, my need to dress in feminine clothes. What's lacking in my born male life, the softness of attitude, the ability to care for someone else tenderly, the ability to show emotion openly (I always cry at weddings and funerals and sad movies) and other "feminine" traits seems really only available to me when I dress. I can't begin to describe the flood of emotions I get when I shed the cotton and wool of baggy,dreary male clothes for the softness and physical caress of nylon and jersey and silk and cashmere. (I like my shoes a little tight though. It's a thing about surrendering control, I think!)

As I've written in another post, I also think there's a bit of physiology involved, as well. The pleasurable feeling of the clothes and the surrender release a hormone in the brain that goes directly to the pleasure center. Endorphins are released when we do anything we like a lot or sense anything that gives us pleasure. Orgasm is a flood of endorphins. It's felt more in the brain than anywhere else, isn't it? For some playing football does it, for others it's fighting or painting or fishing or baking a perfect angel food cake. What ever has given us pleasure in the past, we will go back to. We're drawn there inexorably. Pleasure seeking is an addiction just like those other chemical addictions, smoking and drinking.

As a kid I didn't want to fight or play football or mess with engines. I liked reading and cooking and talking and singing and going to museums and a host of what were considered "not so manly" pursuits. I also liked the feeling of my mother's soft touch and gentle manner. and the polite and couteous ways of the women and girls around me. I became acculturated to the sensitive not the macho. I still feel that way, but I forced myself to project the role that was expected of me. I became a man outside and kept my (embarassing) feminine self inside. I learned how to become "handy" and somewhat bluff and cynical and somewhat confrontational. That's how I live publicly. But I manage my exterior maleness by escaping sometimes to my interior femaleness. And even though I do take pleasure in some "manly'" pursuits, my real pleasure comes from knowing that inside is the feminine half that makes me a whole human being, not just a caricature of a man. (Damn, i'm crying aagin).

Thanks for this cathartic opportunity. I've never expressed my feelings about this painful/pleasurable dichotomy so openly ever before. This Forum seems to have become my therapist for some reason.

I stop now, but, no doubt have more to say (if I can only stop crying!)

Respect and love

deja

(no editing for spelling this time, sorry about any noticed errors...)

[Celeste]

This is a difficult question.I'm sure I'll never really know but would only like to.I believe it means possessing quality's that most men are surely unaware of.A few of the traits I feel are paramount in being femme are sensitivity, empathy,ability to be soft in mannerisms,gestures and movement.Of coarse some men are able to exhibit these quality's,I've just noted them more in women.In short I think it's about what most men cannot or will not try to posses or convey.The list could be endless.For me dressing is only an attempt to "identify" and not a replacement for a gg.In a way it really is like asking," what was it like on Venus".It's a great question though because everyones idea of femininity is different.I'm anxious to see others responses.

[switcheralso]

It is an individual feeling...Based on what you have as a support system...It can run the range of feeling smutty to having someone take care of you that is strong.

[Kate Simmons]

I have to add something I was thinking about in regard to this. While it is never my intention to mock women or be a caricature of them by doing what I do, there is somewhat of a feeling I have when I'm Sal that seems somewhat genuine. It is a feeling that there is some kind of energy at work when I do this. I think of it as a "place" which is somewhat intangible that we draw these feelings from. It's not role playing so much as it is a feeling and is a little hard to explain and it's just something of perhaps an anthropomorphic nature that we can tap into. Not only does this help with self validation but with the overall feeling as well and can be projected by our appearance and actions. We don't necessarily have to understand it to feel it.

Women , on the one hand, naturally access and use this feminine "force" as a matter of consequnce because of who they are and it is rarely noticed because it is just there and part of the original package. Men, on the other hand, need to work for these feelings and that is kind of a personal reward when we accomplish it. As much as SO's appreciate their partner and his male attributes, it really ain't easy being a guy sometimes and we sometimes need a break from all of that. When you watch some of the commercials nowadays and they show a family scenerio, the guy is often portrayed as a clueless fop with the wife and even the kids being smarter than he is. Small wonder guys try to get away from that image. While we all know that it is total nonsense, programming from the media is somewhat subliminal and the image remains even if we consciously deny it.

As human beings we all portray both femininity and masculinity to a certain degree. The more in touch we are with our feelings overall, the better person we become. How we accomplish that will depend on the person really.:happy:

[deja true]

Yay! I knew Sal would have somehting else to say to you (and all of us) ,Secretly....

If you go through the member list, or click on the icons you see in threads, you'll see that the vast,vast majority of us only want to emulate (or sometimes be) real, multi-dimensional women. Not that many want to publicly be ****s or baby girls or bound and humiliated. Sure most of us think of that stuff from time to time, but so do real women. Remember when you went to that Halloween party as the stripper? Remember that time in college when you got drunk and danced on the bar showing your panties to all the frat boys? We know you're not really like that all the time, but each of those little moments of personal freedom on your behalf showed a smidgeon of a repressed part of your personality. Mostly, you're the normal, caring woman that all men admire. Those little flings of abandonment were fun, weren't they? And they didn't screw up your life or hurt anyone else, really, did they?

That's all we are. Mostly normal guys that happen to have a few more layers to the onions of our personalities than other guys. It's actually a good thing. We can probably understand you a little better and be a more sensitive man for you than that beer-belly guy on the sofa, belching and demanding a sammich at half time.

Relate to your man the way your relate to your girlfriends when they have an issue. You try to help them with love and compassion. Just because your new girlfriend has a penis, doesn't mean he doesn't need the same thing.

As I said before, he's still a man. He's still YOUR man. And he loves you. Indeed, you probably love him, too, or you wouldn't be here asking tough questions from "weirdos" you don't know from Adam (or Eve).

Tell us what you think? We wanna be your girlfriends, too.

Respect (for sure) & Love

deja

[TGMarla]

In keeping with the theme that all of us have both masculine and feminine traits within us to begin with, I feel that anything can grow if given the right nutrition. I'm a man, and I have some parts of my personality that are feminine, and are very attracted to that which we term as feminine. When I dress up, and complete my transformation to appear as a woman, I nurture and feed that which is feminine within me.

I don't agree that we, as men, cannot truly appreciate or feel femininity. We can, but with the understanding that it has been suppressed and tempered by our masculinity for a great part of our lives. One of the aspects of crossdressing that I enjoy most is the release of that which is feminine within myself.

So if you want to know what femininity, or "being" female is, look inside yourself. As a woman, that should be simple. But if you're a man, let go of the stereotypes that have been force-fed you all your life, and look again with a more revealing eye. It's there, if you want to find it. And if you wish to, you can nurture it.

[Glenda]

I didn't crossdress until I was 45. In all of the years before I crossdressed for the first time, I was still the same person that I am now. I loved sitting on the kitchen counter and talking to my mother as she prepared the meal. I loved sitting with her, my aunt, my grandmother and their friends when they were socializing. I spent most of the time outside with my brothers enjoying being a boy, but I cherish the times I shared the feminine perspective of life. I did it a lot more than my brothers. Long before I even knew that there were crossdressers. Those times are part of what defines me as a man.

My whole life, I have had women and girls tell me they wished their husbands or boyfriends were as easy to talk to as I was. The first time I crossdressed I was very reluctant but had agreed to go to Halloween as Mrs. Doubtfire while my date was going as Ross Perot. I was not comfortable doing it and was extremely apprehensive. When my girlfriend finished putting on my make-up and placed the wig on my head she stepped back and looked at me in the mirror. She said, "My God Glenda, you are a woman!" Never in my lifetime had I or anyone else referred to me as Glenda. I was Glen. I couldn't believe it. I was staring in the mirror at a side of me I had never even acknowledged but had always known was in me. Suddenly things made a lot of sense. That night, at every party we went to, everyone told me how natural I looked. It wasn't exactly Mrs. Doubtfire, but there was a really good guy that everyone knew who looked really good as a woman.

So what is feminine about us? For me, it is just a part of who I am.

[docrobbysherry]

As youngsters, we were tot exactly what the differences between the sexes was.

Boys r: Snakes and snails and puppydog tails.

Girls r: Sugar and spice and everything nice.

And it was completely clear to me until puberty. Since then, I don't have a clue about the makeup of women. Except what I like and don't like about them! I guess that's the femininity?
RS

[Sherri CD]

"I’d argue that presenting as a woman does give you the freedom to express emotion and otherwise express your feelings whereas the male role, as currently defined by society, gives little opportunity for such expression."

Very well said Alisa......my thoughts exactly.:love:

Sherri CD

[Jilmac]

Dear SP, I can only speak for myself but to me femininity is'nt as much physical characteristics than it is a state of mind. For as long as I can remember, I have beenable to show my emotions. In the male realm I was always being told to "suck it up" whenever there was strife or misfortune. I have always had a gentile touch, a warm carress, a compassionate ear, and an understanding of natural beauty. Being raised with three older sisters, I was taught to give respect and dignity to girls, and it has always been easier for me to interact with females than males.

From a physical standpoint, I have always thought of myself as an "ugly duckling" and wanted to make my physical appearance more eye appealing. (I was teased a lot about my looks as a teen ager). When I was seven years old, a cousin dared me to wear panties and a dress. I was scared witless that I would be teased, but I did it, and when I felt the silkiness of the panties against my skin and saw myself in the dress, a peacefulness came over me which is difficult to explain. (State of mind again).

I hope I have been able to explain my feelings of femininity and I hope that you as a GG can understand why I feel that way. I know that my feminine feelings will never go away and my dressing is my expression of those feelings. I thoroughly enjoy the time I can be en femme, but I also have obligations as a male. This is my :2c:. Luv and :hugs: Jill

[Victoria Anne]

On its face it is a simple question however it is an extremely difficult question.
I have never been one for sports or really any masculine ideal , save for a brief affection for drag racing , my uncle being a three time worlds champion had a bit to do with that. I have never been able to fit in well with the guys but fit in rather well with the girls. Is dressing femininty ... no but it certainly is an expresssion of feelings that on some level defy description. The ability to be soft , understanding , compassionate and to express emotion through tears and touch are a intergral part of who I am and in itself descriptive of me. I put on the airs for my male dominated role in society but it is a farce . The shor awnser for your question i I don't know , I know how I feel though it is not woman it to is not man , I am Viccy.

[SweetCaroline]

For me, hard to say, but lately it's become a means of expressing myself and feelings that have been suppressed as a male. Before coming out I was very quiet, introverted and withdrawn. I lacked self esteem and had no clue how to interact with people.

Since letting "Caroline" free, even in my male clothes I smile more, I'm friendlier, I walk prouder and more gracefully, and over all have more confidence that I did when I was hiding in the closet. I've learned how to show physical affection toward my friends without having to feel like it's "gay" or fearing it relates to some sort of sexual feeling. Something that women do all the time, but men rarely do.

I don't think there is any human personality trait that can be defined as either masculine or feminine. I've never considered myself very "masculine" to begin with. I'm just happier identifying myself as feminine.

I hope that gives you some insight to my feelings.

[ElleCD]

I make a distinction between feminine and female. I am not female but i like to dress in a way (including use of make up) that is feminine rather than masculine but which (for obvious reasons) society associates with the female.

[Alana65]

In keeping with the theme that all of us have both masculine and feminine traits within us to begin with, I feel that anything can grow if given the right nutrition. I'm a man, and I have some parts of my personality that are feminine, and are very attracted to that which we term as feminine. When I dress up, and complete my transformation to appear as a woman, I nurture and feed that which is feminine within me.

I don't agree that we, as men, cannot truly appreciate or feel femininity. We can, but with the understanding that it has been suppressed and tempered by our masculinity for a great part of our lives. One of the aspects of crossdressing that I enjoy most is the release of that which is feminine within myself.

So if you want to know what femininity, or "being" female is, look inside yourself. As a woman, that should be simple. But if you're a man, let go of the stereotypes that have been force-fed you all your life, and look again with a more revealing eye. It's there, if you want to find it. And if you wish to, you can nurture it.

Marla,

You put into words what I could not. My feelings exactly.

:hugs:

Alana

[Jacqui]

I, like deja true, agree that Sal's posts (#7 & #15) were excellent and insightful.

So much so that they should have been preceeded by,
"Come, closer, Grasshopper..."

[Lorna]

In my case, I have concluded that I crossdress for mainly physical reasons: I like how it feels to wear the clothes but I don't pretend to know what it is like to be a woman. I don't think I am particularly feminine in my emotions or my interests, though I do tend towards a non-aggressive attitude in general. My dressing does not include make-up or wigs, both of which I would certainly need to stand any chance of actually looking like a woman. There have been times when I wished I could be convincing enough to venture out, but not really because I wanted to pretend to be a woman: rather it was because I would love to be able to do all the things a woman might typically do (walking down the street, shopping, getting on the bus, having lunch in a restaurant, etc) and to feel what it's like to do those things in a variety of different outfits.

That must all sound strange and boring to the many folk here who make such a wonderful job of looking feminine and living a female lifestyle. I suppose we're all different.

[bgirl]

I had to think awhile here. For me feeling feminine is facing all the feelings I was afraid to feel either as a man or more accuratly, my perception of what society thinks a man should be. My peers included. My self included.

When I dress, I want to express on the outside what I feel on the inside. And when I look in the mirror and see a man in a dress., then its about how it makes me feel on the inside.

Somehow I feel complete. I can just be who I am.
As a benifit of crossdressing, I don't always have to dress to feel that way, although usually I do. But as I result I have become more tollerant, accepting, kinder and more gentle. Now those might not be just feminine traits but they are things I have denied myself from fully exploring because I was to busy being a hard ass construction worker. As I have accepted my other self, I have softened some and it turns out I really like pink!!!!!

[Farrah]

Feminine to me is soft and delicate. I usually try to imitate my mother and other close women in my life.

[Mary Morgan]

To me being femininie is as important as wanting to look feminine and every bit as elusive. To me being feminine means being gentle, nurturing, loving, slow to anger, selfless, thoughtful. Beautiful inside first.

[Jennifer Brooks]

Being soft and sensitive.