unacceptable?

[occdresser]

why are crossdressers so unaccepted? When you strike up a conversation with someone and the subject of crossdressing comes up you always get a cringe or a dirty look. I try not to say to much about it, except do you have a problem with that, and they then think you are a crossdresser. I just do not care anymore, I love to crossdress!

[Kate Simmons]

Well Hon, Like my old Pappy (Grandfather) used to say:" You can please some of the people some of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time but you can never please all of the people all of the time." Oh well, their loss really.:happy:

[Nigella]

why are crossdressers so unaccepted?

I'm accepted by the majority of people


When you strike up a conversation with someone and the subject of crossdressing comes up you always get a cringe or a dirty look.

Prior to going 24/7 the subject of crossdressing never once entered an off the cuff conversation.


I try not to say to much about it, except do you have a problem with that, and they then think you are a crossdresser.

When did you learn this amazing trick of being able to read what people think, and can anyone learn it?

[Amy Hepker]

Well, you are wanting to go places were only labled people go. That's right Labled, Gay, Homo, Queer, Fag, or any other thing people can come up with. Yet most of us are just normal people just wanting to be who we are inside ourselves or just trying to please ourselves without self destruction. These people either don't want to let on that they maybe a labled person or are threatened by our meer existance. Most women are not bothered by us as long as we are not there SOs or in their bathrooms. I don't like the way TV shows depict us, as life threatening beasts out to destroy people or hurt someone. Most of us would not hurt a fly and sure don't want to interupt others lives with our ways. We just want to be who we are.

[Shelly Preston]

I guess it all depends on the people you are chatting with at the time

you can never tell until they make comment

[Christina Louise]

... When you strike up a conversation with someone and the subject of crossdressing comes up ...

Do you begin conversations with "Hello, I'm a crossdresser." ?

[occdresser]

I'm accepted by the majority of people



Prior to going 24/7 the subject of crossdressing never once entered an off the cuff conversation.



When did you learn this amazing trick of being able to read what people think, and can anyone learn it? actually, after first meeting someone I do have a sixth sense of what they think:straightface:


Do you begin conversations with "Hello, I'm a crossdresser." ?
not quite, but dont you want to know what people think of a crossdresser?

[Nigella]

not quite, but dont you want to know what people think of a crossdresser?

Personally I don't. 99.9% of people I meet, will never have an impact on my life, they don't care what I think, so why should I care what they think?

[Ruth]

I think most of the answers have trivialized the original question. It's a big one, it concerns us all, and it's a hard one to understand or answer.
I think that the idea of men dressing as women strikes people on several different fronts at once, and the resulting confusion usually triggers a reflex response of distaste or fear. OK, not everybody goes this way, but it's a common reaction.
I would love to say I don't care, but I do. I am very sad that I cannot share my CDing with most people in my circle of acquaintance. It's an important part of me but it has to stay largely hidden because it is "unacceptable".

[occdresser]

I think most of the answers have trivialized the original question. It's a big one, it concerns us all, and it's a hard one to understand or answer.
I think that the idea of men dressing as women strikes people on several different fronts at once, and the resulting confusion usually triggers a reflex response of distaste or fear. OK, not everybody goes this way, but it's a common reaction.
I would love to say I don't care, but I do. I am very sad that I cannot share my CDing with most people in my circle of acquaintance. It's an important part of me but it has to stay largely hidden because it is "unacceptable".

this is a correct answer!

[MarinaTwelve200]

I think the hostility is directed at GAY people. It is in THAT area that we must concentrate our efforts against prejudice.

Of course, most of the general public thinks that CD=gay, so thats why WE catch flack from outsiders. Thats one of my pet peeves concerning CDing. Undeservenly having to to take crap from ignorant homophobes who dont know what Gay means.

Of course there is no justification to harrass gays either, but it is the hostility against gays that is often directed against us, so we find ourselves on the front lines against homophobia whether we are gay or not or sympathise with them or not.

[il.dso]

Yes, why is it so unacceptable?
I've wondered about this for a long time, also.
My crossdressing is harmless.
I dress in the privacy of my home.
I dress for many complex reasons, but
I don't think I'm hurting anyone else.
Yet, I keep it a secret as I don't believe it would
be tolerated or accepted. I'm so glad I found this
forum where my actions and feelings are respected!

[jennifer41356]

my :2c:, Women in history have always been considered 2nd class citizens, when a boy is growing up he is told not to be a sissy or he throws like a girl...I guess it could also be women are the "weaker " sex and being or acting fem is being weak

who knows...and who cares:D:D:D

[jaina]

why are crossdressers so unaccepted? When you strike up a conversation with someone and the subject of crossdressing comes up you always get a cringe or a dirty look. I try not to say to much about it, except do you have a problem with that, and they then think you are a crossdresser. I just do not care anymore, I love to crossdress!


Because most crossdressers are happy to treated like that. Many treat themselves like they are unacceptable by hiding, accepting horrible treatment in relationships and simply "not saying much about it".

[Nicki B]

I think that the idea of men dressing as women strikes people on several different fronts at once, and the resulting confusion usually triggers a reflex response of distaste or fear. OK, not everybody goes this way, but it's a common reaction.

Presumably because they've never knowingly met the reality?

Whenever I talk to people, they always seem interested and friendly, sometimes even fascinated...

You don't have to be 'passable', either - Miss Michaela Marbella (http://www.missmichaelamarbella.com/) always lights up the room and gets conversations going. :)

[lori m crawford]

why are crossdressers so unaccepted? When you strike up a conversation with someone and the subject of crossdressing comes up you always get a cringe or a dirty look. I try not to say to much about it, except do you have a problem with that, and they then think you are a crossdresser. I just do not care anymore, I love to crossdress!

i am just like you when some talk a bout crossdressing i feel some all over like thay know i gess it like going out the first time


actually, after first meeting someone I do have a sixth sense of what they think:straightface:


not quite, but dont you want to know what people think of a crossdresser?

my mom to look in a persons eyes first you can know a lot about them

[docrobbysherry]

I believe most people think CD's r perverts. This may be how we stack up in their minds:

Perverts molest young children of both sexes.
Perverts peek thru holes in ladies shower rooms walls.
Perverts have sex with under age youths, animals, and those of the same sex.
Perverts r men who dress like women.

I wished they thot of CDing as a stimulating hobby. Like collecting stamps, building model airplanes, or hunting quail. But, I don't think they will real soon!
RS

[crusadergirl]

I have talked with a few ppl about crossdressing but i'm not the one the started the conversation. They don't know the meaning of it at all. They almost always think your gay which doesn't really bother me that much.
Is it really unacceptable to be a cd? I really just think its all in your head.
B/c who really knows what everybody thinks on this subject.

[Nicola46]

Unfortunately this world is full of bigots. Its nice to know there are places like this to chat and make friends.

[Celeste]

I've wondered about this a lot to but I try not to let it bother me either.I think people are fearful of the unknown and things they just can't fathom.A CDER is a little more adventurous, inquisitive and welcoming of things they wish to learn more about.CDING is a wonderful experience for me, so I try to let the fear fade out of the picture.Isn't it true though that when you meet one of those unaccepting types,they usually have problems accepting many other challenges life throws at them.My question to those still in the dark is"exactly what is your reasoning behind being offended by those who cd"?

[Kate Simmons]

It's mostly based on blanket observations and mis-information. Only those who truely take the time to get to know people individually will understand that everyone is a unique person with different motivations for what they do.:happy:

[Dalece]

Why is it when a GG dresses as a man is acceptable? And why is it that you have girl pitchers that out do some males is acceptable and not called a butch or pervert or anything. I just don't understand the logic to what it is. I feel femine and love to wear a dress.

[Carly D.]

I've said this elsewhere but repeat it here.. I think that crossdressers are frowned upon because we tend to try to look like something we are not.. where gays are being accepted more all the time, in part because they don't look any different than anyone straight.. crossdressers tend to try to look like a woman and those who are serious about their "craft" even have fake identity cards (license. etc.) and names (allies) to prove they are women..

[Nicki B]

Why is it when a GG dresses as a man is acceptable?

Dalece, perhaps the women you refer to are not trying to be, or to be seen as, male - they just want the privileges of males?

Ask the F2Ms here if they feel wholly accepted? Ever hear of Brandon Teena (http://www.crimelibrary.com/classics4/brandon/)? :strugglin

[bimini1]

....how does one actively and perpetually cope with these negative attitudes of society. Its easy to say I don't care what they think but deep down inside I really do care what they think of me. Or what they'd think of me if they knew. I can put this out of mind but for only so long then it starts to creep back in the pix.

[AmandaM]

It's because crossdressers are rare (publicly anyway) in history and were usually on the outskirts of society. Hiding in the seedier parts of town, where the drunks, pervs, thieves, and hobos abound. The area of town full of liquor stores, peep shows, sexual degenerates, and houses of ill-repute. Yes Charlotte, there is a transvestite there, and he's a freak that loiters in the dimly-lit corridors and alleys. Why? Because that used to be the only "safe" place for crossdressers and society still believes this is the way it is, i.e., you're a transvestite, so this is your life. You are no better than a perv. You skulk the dark alleys looking for sex or some other ghastly habit. Of course, these people exist as well as CDers everywhere then too. But, if you were found out, they thought you belonged with the rest described above.

Hey, you asked!

[Brynna M]

Why is it when a GG dresses as a man is acceptable? And why is it that you have girl pitchers that out do some males is acceptable and not called a butch or pervert or anything. I just don't understand the logic to what it is. I feel femine and love to wear a dress.

I've though about this some and bluntly IMO women earned it. Past generations of women went through alot to not be treated as second class citizens and not be ridiculed when they decided to do something the wasn't feminine. And at times they still are.

For most men there is little problem with the gender role society hands them. Then there is no mass movement to change societies views so I think it will take a long time for any change. In all fairness some feminine things are more acceptable for men. sewing or knitting, Nursing, stay at home dad, are all examples but the things crossdressers want, clothing and apearance etc. hasn't made as much progress.

Also I agree with Nicki. People lash out (verbally or worse) when their reality is threatened. When what they think should be doesn't match up with what is, people who are insecure with themselves and their ability to deal with the world will try to marginalize or eliminate anyone who doesn't fit the mold of reality they feel safe in. (i'm indulging in a little armchair psychology but I think it fits)

It's all sad to varying degrees.

It's some solace to be accpeted here.


B

[Stargirl]

I recall that women rode horseback sidesaddle, because it wasn't "right" to ride with the "nether regions" affixed to the resulting vibrations ? hee hee. Heaven forbid Aunt Gertrude would feel something...never mind...oh those Victorians !
Bloomers. For bicycles, because skirts got caught in the bike chains...George Sand Dressed in Male clothing. I do believe that the Bohemians got away with a great deal. So did the flower Children. Then life seemed to become way too conservative. I am ready for another revolution. Humans seem stressed out a lot, to me. Crossdressing is a great way to de - stress. Creative, social. Harmless.

[deja true]

A couple of random thoughts on a couple of the many different points that have come up here:

1) NickiB, Michaela lights up the room because she is so over the top with her incredible style and presentation that she doesn't threaten anybody's sensibilities kinda like Dame Edna) . She's obviously not trying to pass. She's just having fun, as a caricature that everybody can laugh at and with. That's very funny and even hard-core straight people see that and appreciate the effort she puts into it.

It's the girls who pass and try to pass that scares the bejesus out of straight people. There's always a kind of sinister feel to someone in a disguise, whether it's a superhero with a mask or clowns (jeez, I hate clowns. I'm lookin' at you ghost of J.W.Gacy!) or a cross dressed man (or woman!). What are they hiding? And they're ALL hiding something, aren't they? Aren't we?

2) And Bimini: "It's easy to say I don't care what they think but deep down inside I really do care what they think of me...". This is the other point that grabbed me. This phrase probably applies to the vast majority of us, whether we're public with our dressing or not. If we really were afraid of the approbriation of others we just wouldn't do it! But we DO do it, despite the fear 'cos, I think we often feel superior to those who we know will not undrstand. We think we know something they don't know. We think we have better insights to both sexes and lots of other things, too. I recently read somewhere (sorry, can't remember where) that T-people averaged 10 IQ points higher than "normal" people. Ya know what? I believe it. Our belief in our own superiority makes us do the thing we fear, the risky thing, out of spite. Just because we can, so there!

Sorry I ramble a bit. It's late and I don't have my thinking shoes on...

Anyway, as always,

respect (for thinkers) and love

deja

[Eugenie]

I think the hostility is directed at GAY people. It is in THAT area that we must concentrate our efforts against prejudice.

Of course, most of the general public thinks that CD=gay, so thats why WE catch flack from outsiders. Thats one of my pet peeves concerning CDing. Undeservenly having to to take crap from ignorant homophobes who dont know what Gay means.

Of course there is no justification to harrass gays either, but it is the hostility against gays that is often directed against us, so we find ourselves on the front lines against homophobia whether we are gay or not or sympathise with them or not.

Indeed there is still a lot of prejudice against Gays, however after discussing with some of the LGBT advocates, they agreed that "Trans" people are even more subjects of discrimination than Gays, at least in our Western culture.

And what's worse is that crossdressers aren't even accepted in their own family...

If I take the exemple of my own family, when my daughter did her coming out as being a lesbian, she was perfectly accepted, including by her grand parents who were in their eighties... The whole family was very much accepting and welcomed her compagnon as a daughter in law.

I know for sure that if I did a coming out as a crossdreser I would be rejected by most of my family.

This comes back to the early question of that thread. Why is it that there are so many prejudices against crossdressers?

Perhaps because we transgress a code in a very visible way, especially when we go out "en femme".

Yet none of us are doing any arm to other people and if some do they should be judged by the same rules as other people, not because they are x-dressers. (It should be the same for gays, of course)

:hugs:
Eugenie

[Kate Simmons]

If for some strange and miraculous reason CDing or being TG became fashionable or popular tomorrow you would see all the "front runners" come out. They would go out of their way to tell everyone that "Sally" is their best friend and they have known "her" since childhood and always admired her. People are fickle, people go with the crowd and go with the perceptions of others. In short, people are lazy and don't take the time to find out for themselves what things are all about, so they depend on things like the news media to base their opinions on things and people. I shake my head every day when I listen to this stuff on TV, not just about our issues but about everything. I'm surprised we've survived as a race really.

Nothing substitutes for first hand information and getting to know for ourselves. This is true in terms of getting to know people as well. The very person who was beat up on the news last night may well be a humanitarian who saved the lives of countless people in his life. This is why I never take their word for anything and always find out for myself. Who is really watching our back? The answer may sometimes be surprising.:happy:

[Carly D.]

Actually if the subject of crossdressing were to come up in a casual conversation amongst male friends I would probably cringe myself because I'd wonder if these guys knew I did it, and were trying to get me to admit it.. and if it were with family I'd feel the same way.. with women I think it might be different.. I think, depending upon who it is, that I might could 'fees up to babbling in the fine art of crossdressing... if the mood was right...

[angelfire]

I have had a number of discussions on it, and I usually take 1 of 2 stances.

Stance 1: I basically don't comment unless necissary, and even when I do, its a "To each their own" attitude.

Stance 2: I go on a long and elaborate rant about how clothing itself is a foreign concept, and if we really wanted to be the way God intended, we would be naked. Clothing is a man-made device, and thus, it makes no difference what someone wears.

[Tamara Croft]

Of course, most of the general public thinks that CD=gay, so thats why WE catch flack from outsiders. Thats one of my pet peeves concerning CDing. Undeservenly having to to take crap from ignorant homophobes who dont know what Gay means.How so very true that is... mention anything about cd'ing in one of my irc chat channels and straight away people say.... oh that's just gay.... and start talking about tranny porn and ********... you can't imagine how bloody mad I get... and yes, I put them right, makes no difference... it's a big joke to some people :mad:

[charlie]

We all have to care about what society thinks about us or become hermits (then going out would not be as much fun). The general society sees us as totally weird, gay at best, and as Sherry said, perverts. I think the general society believes we are far worst and despicable then gay people. We are seen as both gay and somehow crazy. It is a really tough mountain to climb to ever be accepted. As Sal says, perhaps reducing the tension one person by one person at a time will work by getting to be friends with people.

[Jazzmine]

Do you think it relates to women being seen as sex objects in the male mind?

I know it's coarse thinking. On meeting a women the first thing men do is eye her up and down for attractiveness -come on guys you know you do!. (And probably vice versa for that matter).

So a male CD is emulating a sex object in the ordinary male perception. For whom? Well if he's dressed like that it must be another man. He MUST be GAY! :eek:

Oh dear, Wrong ... but sometimes right (depending on the CD) ...hell, how do we start explaining our femme inclinations from this starting point. :(

It just gets worse the more you talk! We cannot even agree why we do this. We cannot even have the same sexual preference. We like to hide. We like to go out and merge. We are in a fantasy world because reality denies us. We want SOs just to carry on as normal while we put our breasts on while saying we like being their husband! :straightface:

No wonder the world sees us as sicko's. And you wonder why we get strange reactions. :eek:

Freud said it all comes back to sex :D
But then as far as I know Freud was not a crossdresser ... :tongueout

Hugs Jazzmine

[cyle_elise]

why are crossdressers so unaccepted? When you strike up a conversation with someone and the subject of crossdressing comes up you always get a cringe or a dirty look. I try not to say to much about it, except do you have a problem with that, and they then think you are a crossdresser. I just do not care anymore, I love to crossdress!

burly men wearing women's clothing is a true definition of ironic, irony is funny, and so is "different." Like it or not you're a minority, and minorities have always been the subject of ridicule. Oh well, I've got you gals, so I get by.

[Sophie_C]

why are crossdressers so unaccepted? When you strike up a conversation with someone and the subject of crossdressing comes up you always get a cringe or a dirty look. I try not to say to much about it, except do you have a problem with that, and they then think you are a crossdresser. I just do not care anymore, I love to crossdress!

Gender roles are wired into our species for reproduction. Androgyny confuses that and messes with it.

Everything from hair texture, to jaw structure, to waist-hip ratio is wired into gender roles.

So, the less a woman conforms to such a role, the less she's attractive. And, the less attractive, the more it irks someone. And, a man coming off as a woman, in many many ways (well, the less passable she/he is) not fitting the role, therefore irking people more and more.

Essentially, it's natural for people to be bothered by it.

To ignore this fact is to ignore evolutionary psychology.

But, people often pretend like it's some chosen prejudice. It's not. It's wired into people. This is why i'm so tough on passing. The more girls pass, the more the prejudice goes away. It's the ONLY way. There's no way getting by what's naturally inherent in people.

The best you can ask for is for them to attempt to deny it by ignorance, and that doesn't ever work in the long run...