SO knows

[Dalece]

Well I guess I'm out of the closet now. Was confronted by SO, She found out by snopping in my closets and dresser draws and also followed me to the club I go to. She has seen the pictures of me Dressed. We had a talk this Am and she has been going to her Pastor for consultation. I told her the truth that I'm happier dressed as a female and have an inner peace in me She dosen't know what to do next only that according to her and her pastor my sole has a black hole init and I'm being lead down a path by satin. My Children know along with my father in law, one brother inlaw and some of the people at her work. She seemed quit sible about the situation. And did not know if she could accept this right now but as her being a Christian devorce is not an option. The question of Sex came up and was honest and truthful with her. Even though we have not been intimate for 10 yrs. Some my falt some hers and the medications I'm on makes it useless anyway. But she brings up the Bible a lot, I don't belong to her church and I don't feel comfortable around the people at get togethers I have gone to, This is because of past experiencies, with her church in Maryland and other expirencies I have had. I told her that I was going to continue to CD. She kind of excepted that. But my concerns are Is there any of us that go to church on Sunday and is excepted on what they are. Like above I have been more or less to say been chastized or given the third degree on why I'm not a Christian in there eyes. Was raised as a Roman Catholic. So in the past was shunned and ignored. But the truth is out I have to see what goes on next. If she feels that way then why dosen't she get on my son and his girlfriend about being adultris on having sex out of wed lock ? She Also told me not to use her jewelry, makeup and sorts, Have my own. She did Ask me to forgive her for snopping and going thru my things. I don't know yet on that myself. Because if I was to go in her dresser drawers or things it would be the third degree again like I just robbed the 1St National Bank. ANd I don't go thru her things and snop. I'm Sorry this is long But I have to open my Heart On how I feel right know kind of relieved but confused any help or suggestions.

[sandra-leigh]

My Children know along with my father in law, one brother inlaw and some of the people at her work.

Could you clarify whether you told them or she told them?


She seemed quit sible about the situation.

I don't think I get the word there. "Civil" perhaps? If so, I personally wouldn't consider being told that I had "a black hole in my soul" and was being lead on by Satan to be "civil"... I guess it could depend on the tone it was said in.

We can't really comment here on the theology -- religious discussions are not permitted in public here (too many big arguments arose.)


But my concerns are Is there any of us that go to church on Sunday and is excepted on what they are.

I do not recall whom at the moment, but at least one person has posted indicating that they are welcome in their church, which they attend dressed; I seem to recall it wasn't even one of the churches that makes a point of being open to everyone. So there is some acceptance at some churches, but I have no information on how much acceptance there is in various denominations.

[jazmine]

Wow! I don't know what to say......Religion seems to complicate things sometimes. Being raise Catholic, and going to a Catholic private school for 12 years, and studying almost all the major religions of the world(thanks to my highschool's liberal priest)....I was left with the revelation that most religions seem to only complicate life. It's like they try to spell out the world in black & white terms. So.. satan is leading you down a path with this crossdressing thing?..... and I guess that means God's not down with a guy enjoying dressing up like a woman? ...huh.... Needless to say, I don't think it works like this. At least I don't want to believe that my creator operates like this. You know, my mom thinks along the same lines as your wife. She's pretty into her religion, and takes everything that is taught from the bible, as being true. She would completely flip out and throw holy water on me if she found out about my girl side. I don't look down on her because of that,,,,,,,,I guess it's just a reflection of the times she grew up in. She listens to my beliefs and philosophies that I talk about...and she replies with" I can't believe your father and I wasted all that money with sending you to a Catholic school!" I probably will never get through to her on my beliefs , but I guess she has her beliefs, and I have mine. I really hope that your wife relies a little less on scripture and what the pastor says(shame on him).....and decides to sit down with you and have a heart to heart,,,and maybe somehow muster through all this,,,and come to a solution that works for the both of you. If your willing to listen to her, and she's willing to listen to you....maybe you can meet each other halfway? Everyone in my wife's and my family marvel at our relationship. They like put us up on a pedelstal with the way we get along. When they ask what our secret is,,,,we say the usuals(love,trust,respect...ect) but then we say, above all,,learning to tolerate the other. At that point, everyone goes..."ah man! that's awful!,,,,,,that's not romantic or fairytale like!......" ... and we go "no , but it works" There's things that make me crawl under my skin when it comes to my wife, like her messiness, leaving cupboard doors open, crumbing stuff on the floor...her messy car...ect and there's probably a million things that aggrevate her when it comes to me.......my pokeyness, anal compulsive behavoir, me cleaning up after her and moving her stuff, my love of pantyhose and wanting her to wear them......the list goes on! We joke about these things to each other, try to compromise a middle ground, then just move on and tolerate our differences. Maybe you and your wife can sit down and go over this, and reach some kind of agreement? Then maybe you can tolerate her love for church and religion, and she can tolerate your crossdressing? Please don't take me the wrong way,I don't want to speak with authority here like I know anything , because ...I've only been with her for about 4 years. That's nothing. Some people here have been with their SO's for 20,30,40 or more years...and know a whole heck of a lot more about relationships then I do. My wife has some medical issues too. Issues that I think would strain or completely annihilate today's young couple's marriage. But we plow through it and deal. I hope the best for you. I probably wasn't much help. It's just that I get so sad when I see religion get used the wrong way. Please let us know what happens.

[shenangovalleygal]

dalece i know how you feel. my girlfriend is a bible-humping christian too republican to boot which make things a tad bit difficult to talk sense into. krissy knows about my fem side and gave me some rules like no picking her up at work while enfemme, no going to sunday service enfemme (i rarely go unless im staying at her or her parents house), no dressing in front of the families (halloweens the exception), etc... i cn only do it in her house or my house when my moms not htere. i never had the 'pleasure' of going to catholic school, my mother put a stop to that. being raised irish-german catholic and protestant, my upbringing was none too pleasant. if my parents knew i wouldnt be here today typing this. when i told krissy, she didnt get what i was saying so i had to spell it out for her. she has a couple tg friends in her town. one of them used to belong to her church and they banned him from going there enfemme. and to think christians are supposed to open-armed people. hate the sin but love the sinner? what the f--- is that supposed to mean? come on now, lets get real on this s---. if youre not going to accept us the way we truly are then why the f--- are we even together. having kids can and will make things difficult.

this is my opinion and im sticking to it.

[Joy Carter]

Just keep the communication going. She sounds like she has a lot of incomplete information, that you need to fill in the blanks.
My lovely wife did the snooping thing too before she said anything. I have never been hard to talk to. I know I should have told her. But there are a multiple reason for why we don't tell them.

[Daintre]

I think I would tell the minister to get a life and read up on cross dressing and Transgenderism. Seems to me he is an uninformed soul. I find it funny that these people influence many parishioners, but they do not know the subject at all.

[Kate Simmons]

I have attented the Metropolitan Community Church on occasion. They welcome the LGBT community and for the most part I was accepted for who I was. I'm not a church goer per se, even though I consider myself a spiritual person.

As far as your SO, I guess you'll just have to see how things work out. These feelings and everything that goes along with them are tough to deal with sometimes Hon. I'm hoping things work out for you.:happy:

[Dalece]

First she told them my children that is, and your right my spelling is bad. It is civil. Being bought up as a catholic I went to public Schools just raised for that way. I Agree with all of you you help my a lot. And it does my heart good to here from all of you. If I ever get to a CD event And some of you are ther Please Bring the tissues. Because I'd be very emotional meeting all of you. That is from my heart.:love:

[Maid Barbara]

[QUOTE=I'm being lead down a path by satin. [/QUOTE]

Aren't we all!

[DawnL]

I am sorry that your wife and others feel that way. I feel that we are all going to meet our maker some day and the first thing he/she is going to ask us in NOT "what style of dress do you prefer?" No one has a right to tell you whether or not your soul has a black mark on it. What happened to love thy neighbor?

[vivianann]

Hi Dalece, I am sorry that you are going through this heart ache with your wife and her minister of hate. I study religion and am active in my religion, and I do not find it anywhere that it is a sin to wear womens clothing, clothing is a man made garment that has been segregated to men and women by man. There is no such thing as a black hole in your soul, that is a term used by preachers to scare you into compliance. Jesus loves us all and I believe he will be merciful if we do his work and believe in him as our savior.
We will not go to hell because we like to wear a dress while we are here on this earth. I choose not to wear a dress when I go to church, but I will not be offended if someone does as long as they are wearing a dress or skirt that does not reveal too much flesh.
I had a preacher tell me that I was blasphemouse and going to hell because I disagreed with him about where babies that die go to outer darkness if they are not baptized I do not believe that, I believe that those babies souls will be saved in heaven with jesus. To the moderators I am sorry if this is too much religion for the forum, I just dont mean to cause a problem if someone disagrees I wont argue about it. It just breaks my heart when peaple are abused by preachers.

[Soulless&Shallow]

I don't think your wife telling everybody is fair, first of all your CDing is your business. Telling your children, and in-laws isn't fair but telling extreme outsiders such as the people she works with is unbelievably unfair.

I understand her need to get counsel from somebody her pastor, or a immediate family member is acceptable if discussed in confidence. However I don't believe running around telling people blindly was her best approach. For her and especially you.

I have experienced nearly the same thing with my ex-wife, I was very upset that she had discussed my CDing with just about everybody. Once we were divorced I didn't care I wasn't especially close with her family and some of her friends I couldn't stand. The best part of our divorce was ridding myself of these loathsome people. I do miss her but it was a bad marriage and we were both unhappy.

As for religion a lot of times with christianity anything that christians don't understand they call something the devil's work or the act of Satan. To me it seems like paranoid delusions. You can't always explain complex situations off as the work of Satan. To me it seems like a cheap cop out for lack of understanding. However I'm not a religious person so I don't place a lot of stock into any religion no offense to those that do.

[Edwina]

[quote=I'm being lead down a path by satin. [/QUOTE]

So that's why it is described as the slippery slope...... :tongueout


Dear Dalece
I am so sorry you have been outed in this way. I know only to well the type of pastor you mention, I had one ruin what I thought was an idilic relationship, only it wasn't about cross dressing. (Something about uneven hitching of different types of bests if I recall. )
The plus side is that you no longer have to hide things from her.
I hope things go well for you from now on.

:love:

Edwina

[Suzy Harrison]

Hi Dalece - I'm so sorry you're having a difficult time at the moment and truly hope that things work out for you.

What really gets me (I'm on my soapbox now, sorry honey) - is the religious side of things. When a Pastor or the church, or a rep of any religion starts to tell us how to run our lives I really see red.

I believe in a God - but what I don't believe in are the religious groups, whether it's Catholic, Christian, Islamic or whatever - When self appointed chiefs of the churches tell you to live life their way or you will burn in hell or whatever - who put them in charge anyway?

These groups are just out to control people. As far as I'm concerned if you are a good and kind person, then you don't need to go to church, you don't have to say "Allah is great" or "Hail Mary" or "Our father".

I'm sorry to go on but these religious nuts upset me a little.

So it's a shame your wife has to be told by a third party (the pastor) what she should do.

I hope things work out okay for the both of you.

love Suzy :hugs:

[Carol A]

Vivianann,

Sweetheart for what it's worthy my wifes believes very much the way you do about the souls of babies. :hugs:

[Mary Morgan]

Dalece, give this some time to settle down. Your answers will come. Try to be understanding even if it isn't being reciprocated. As for religion, it doesn't complicate things, it people the who use it as a sword who complicate things. When the dust settles, you will find that not having the secret is a good thing. Try not to push too hard, or to be too inflexible wit hyour wife. Compromise. Congratulations.

[TerriM]

First let me tell you how sorry I feel for you. I truly hope you and your wife can work things out. Over 25yrs ago (we are married 36) I told my wife about Terri. She had found a woman's name and # in my wallet and I had to tell her. She was getting money for the paperboy.
My wife is a devout Catholic. I am also catholic but very rarely go to church. But I believe. She asked me if I wanted to talk to the priest. I said I would talk to anyone she wanted. The priest was a truly holy man. He told me that I was not a sinner. He told me that this was something between my wife and I and he told me that Jesus loved me. Those words has stayed with me. They also stayed with my wife. She still wants no part of my femme side. But we work things out.
Yours Terri

[sandra-leigh]

I'm a bit uncomfortable with the anti-religious tone of a number of the replies. Those who are religious know they cannot speak up here and give alternative perspectives, as such discussions are not permitted in the main forums here.

It is tricky because obviously religion is an important facet of Dalece's experience, but I would suggest that to the extent that your reply might be primarily about the religious aspect, that the reply would probably better be sent as a PM.

No, I'm not a moderator or anything like that, but the current situation is not fair to those on the other side of the discussion -- and there are a lot of other aspects that can be discussed publicly, such as Breach of Trust, "outing", marriage without intimacy, and so on.

[Mitch23]

I am a believer too and I am firmly of the conclusion that my God loves me unconditionally and doesn't give a fig what clothing i choose to wear. Most of the crud we get thrown at us is based on an incomplete understanding of deuteronomy 22:5. my wife was of this view but has had to rethink. I think there will be some more detailed advice and guidance in the archives somewhere. I have not 'come out' in my local church but i am confident that if i do, i will be treated with love and understanding rather than judgement and condemnation

mitch

[TxKimberly]

Hi Dalece - I'm so sorry you're having a difficult time at the moment and truly hope that things work out for you.

What really gets me . . .

Suzy pretty much took the words outta my mouth. The hard thing about the religious angle is that you can not argue your case. Well, you can, but usually the folks who try to use religion for their club aren't going to bother listening. Mind you, I have nothing against religion and am not slamming it. I think there are a few lines in the Bible that imply that CDing is bad, but if someone wants to use this, they have no right to pick and choose what they will and will not enforce. I once saw a list of archaic "rules" that are in the bible that the very vast majority of us would consider silly these days. I don't recall a single item on it at the moment, but it made it clear that the there are a LOT of rules in the Bible that people now consider silly, choose to ignore, or consider not relevant 2000 years later.
I think we all know the difference between being a good and decent person and in being something else. There are men out there that hurt and abuse their wives and their children. There are people out there that think nothing of stealing or cheating from others to get ahead. Your going to have to work REAL hard to convince me that God is mad at me because I like beautiful things and clothes.

[Mitch23]

couldn't have put it better myself kimberley. And I've noticed that we are neck and neck on 1198 posts each ... until now ...

mitch

[Violetgray]

LoL I'm sorry but the idea of the devil leading you down this path is funny to me..

"Hmm.. the downfall of mankind.. I shall give them war, and drugs, and murder, and hatred, and bigotry, and genocide... and crossdressing, let's not forget crossdressing!

[debbeelee1]

Good luck Dalace. Hope you can work things out. At least she knows now and you can go from there!

[serinalynn]

I crossdress because I like to. MY wife tollerates it(no help from her though) and we have discussed it frequently. She says I have to many womens clothes. she tells me when there is a sale at my fav store and says its OK to buy something. (go figure)

I personally think the Bible is 2000 years out of date. Its the only book I know of that hasen't had a major revision or update in 1500-1800 years. Some religious smarties feel that the teachings of God still apply now as they did 2000 years ago. (I don't think so) But who am I to say, I'm just a guy who like to crossdress.Those of us who crossdressed before the internet may have done it alone and I'd bet very few of us 30 years ago had some one close who felt the same way we did back then about crossdressing. But, since the Internet we all sisters in crossdresssing and that why this forum got started, so we all had a place to come and discuss our experiences intelligently in an open and friendly forum. Seriously i'd bet that 2000 years ago there were no gay men, no lesbian women and no crossdressers. look at where we are 2000 years later. Maybe 500 years from now everyone will be dresssing as women.

I'am also a guy who very seldom goes to church, That said, I still believe in God, I am a Christian and was raised as a Christian by very church going parents. I also feel that not all pastors/priests have the best interests of their parishioners in mind. ( personal opinion).

Thanks Kimberly for your post#20 in this thread. I believe I may feel the same way you do about things.

[MJ]

Dalece.
I am so sorry this is happing to you . just for the record you are doing nothing wrong . :hugs: i do hope things work out ok for you

[SheilaM]

You have been married for quite a few years to this lady but apparently haven't spent a whole lot of time talking to each other. You have so many fundamental issues besides crossdressing that need ironing out if you wish this relationship to be fulfilling. I urge you and your wife to seek counseling with a NEUTRAL professional, you both desparately need to come to grips with the point of view and values held by each of you. It is going to take some time, it is going to cost some money, it may or may not be worth it to you. I wish you luck. This is not an "I win, you lose" situation.

[suchacutie]

1) please, see a professional who is outside of this current controversy, but one who understands the issues and has dealt with them before...He/she needs to get the hundreds of issues out in the open. There has been some serious damage done to the relationship and I'm not sure it will hold together without some professional help.

2) I am Roman Catholic. There is no commandment that says what gender I shall project. God knows all about my plumbing and it's no one else's business. No one has ever asked if my underwear is male or female based. Everyone in church is full of their own agenda to bother with my eye lashes, or eyebrows, or my moisturizer, or my nail polish, for that matter.

3) I am concerned that you wife will continue to attempt to "break" you of this in more and more agressive ways. Please be careful and alert and I hope she eventually comes to see that she is doing a disservice to her god, and needs to considered just how my she is "sinning" with her arrogance, plotting, scheming, and specific hurt directed toward you!

imho.

tina

[sandra-leigh]

Seriously i'd bet that 2000 years ago there were no gay men, no lesbian women and no crossdressers.

Historically you are wrong on all three points.

http://www.lulu.com/content/1064498

Crossdressing in Context, vol. 3: Transgender History & Geography

by G. G. Bolich, Ph.D.


Crossdressing is known to date back at least 15 centuries before Christ

[Brynna M]

I have no great wisdom to offer but I feel for your situation. It really does sound like a nightmare.

My personal opinion is that the problem is not your wife's religion it is that your wife has handled things very badly. She talked to too many people except you and doesn't seem to be trying to understand you or your feelings. I'm not involved in your situation but that's the impression that I get from your story.

I hope that this is a chance for both you and your wife to grow, and find a happier place for the two of you. We do eventually wake up from nightmares

Good luck and all my best wishes and my prayers for your happiness.

B

[Nicole Erin]

... And it does my heart good to here from all of you. If I ever get to a CD event And some of you are ther Please Bring the tissues. Because I'd be very emotional meeting all of you. That is from my heart.:love: :hugs: There sis. It would be cool to meet you RL too.

Well, religion. Here is how it is around our home -

Myself, I don't follow any religion. I kinda-sorta believe certain things but I don't let it effect my life. I doubt the higher power cares about my garments.

My Wife - Her religion, a common one [won't say what] is not about hating or hellfire & damnation. She believes strongly in her faith but her faith is not a hateful one. Even when she has been rude about my CD'ing, she never says crap about how it is against the bible.

My Son - Well, since religious beliefs are quite personal, I have decided I will not try to convince him one way or another. He needs to decide on his own as he learns different things. I do not impose my beliefs on anyone.

[Dalece]

I will keep an update on what goes on. all of you Ilove very much, and Now you all better bring a case of tissues to an event. I'm lost on words to say all of you mean a great deal to me.

[MAJESTYK]

Dalece, I hope all goes well after this, in fact I hope it just gets better. And, even though it isnt my "Book" , my favorite quote from it is " Judge not, lest ye be judged".
All the best and keep us posted of course. It may only be a cyber shoulder, but you can cry on it none the less.

[melissaK]

My heart goes out to you. I concur with many who believe your are among the uninformed (wife & pastor in particular). Whether these people will chose to stay in your world, or let you stay in theirs, is not likely to be answered swiftly.

I think it bodes well for your own long term well being that you had the sense to tell your wife you will not stop CDing, and that you have not escalated the matter by snooping back. You display self awareness, truthfulness, and respect of others. With your steadying example, maybe she can handle the truth and learn respect of others.

hugs,
'lissa

[Cindi Johnson]

Well, at least now I know who to blame for my TG leanings: Satan!!! (Or perhaps more accurately, whom to thank for the enjoyment I experience when I crossdress.)

Ultimately, we all choose what to believe in this life. We can't choose what facts to believe, at least not with any integrity, as facts are facts; they are verifiable. But, there are no verifiable facts which support ANY religion. None! So, you and your wife can choose what you care to believe or not believe when it comes to a God. But I think she is being dishonest with herself and with you by swatting you with her bible, so to speak.

Many women choose to leave their partners for many reasons, including crossdressing. In my opinion, those that pull out the bible or the koran to justify it are merely attempting to convince themselves and others that they were righteous to leave the relationship. They know very well that without the "holy" book on their side, many in our western societies might well view them as more than a bit petty to leave their partner because of his occasional desire to crossdress.

Best of luck with a bad situation,

Cindi Johnson

[kathy001]

A long long time ago in a galaxy far far away i was confessing my long list of sins during a confessional. When finally finished, whew, the priest said none of what i confessed conflicted with the 10 Commandments and more or less scolded me for taking up his time as there was a long line of people waiting.

Last i looked, no where in the Ten Commandments does it say:
"Thou shalt not wear the clothes of the opposite sex"

[megan163]

...Everyone in my wife's and my family marvel at our relationship. They like put us up on a pedelstal with the way we get along. When they ask what our secret is,,,,we say the usuals(love,trust,respect...ect) but then we say, above all,,learning to tolerate the other. At that point, everyone goes..."ah man! that's awful!,,,,,,that's not romantic or fairytale like!......" ... and we go "no , but it works"

Wow! It seems so simple and intuitive. I'm not being facetious, it really is like that. I totally relate and concur with your comments Jazmine. I too am product of Catholic schools and still practicing. I have my moments of guilt and shame but have come to accept myself and my little peculiar penchant for dressing. Reading your post was funny because I have same situation with my wife - she is messy, leaves dirty laundry on floor, pots and spills on stovetop, papers everywhere, cupboards open, etc. - and I just need to accept it. She is beginning to accept my CDing more as well. What's the alternative? Going nuts and futile fighting. We can't change who we are. Dalece, I would talk with my wife about patience, understanding, and unconditional love - ostensibly, virtues of all religions. Shame on the pastor for painting CDing as an evil vice. It only seems illicit at times because we're forced to go around sneaking for opportunities to express ourselves - hide it from spouse, friends, co-workers. Why?! I would much rather dress with support of my wife. Step back for a minute, take slow but well-reasoned approach with your wife. You always can count on the support of your gurls here.
Hugz,
Megan

[sandra-leigh]

I have same situation with my wife - she is messy, leaves dirty laundry on floor, pots and spills on stovetop, papers everywhere, cupboards open, etc. - and I just need to accept it.

Shoes on the stairs, where they can be tripped over... Keeping old food in the fridge for a decade even though we run out of room there ("No, I'm going to use it!")... Leaving socks on the floor... Oh wait, those are my socks :o