What's in it for you?

[Kate Simmons]

Many of us here (or so I read) make elaborate preparations to engage in this passtime. We spend a great deal of time getting our clothes together, doing the makeup, shaving, waxing, plucking, primping, preening and what not. Some of us have "CD standards" for ourselves (and possibly others) when we go by to "pass", some even take it down to a gnat's a** and have check lists and point systems to rate it. Some of us spend a great deal of time going out with our CD sisters or going to group meetings and get togethers or if we don't go out sometimes take a lot of pictures, many times to the chagrin and frustration of our loved ones who may think the time could be better well spent in family pursuits and I cannot necessarily argue against that.

I sometimes wonder just what is the point of it all and what is behind putting so much effort into this? As crossdressers we know we are men and that isn't going to change any time soon and for the most part we have no desire to transition. These are things I had to consider, especially after a few years after coming "out" because it seemed I was on an endless treadmill at times and there really didn't seem to be any practical value to it to be quite honest.

I can't deny who I am and I'm a practical man at heart. I originally thought it was the idea of looking and feeling feminine and "cute". Just how much is "cute" worth though? "Cute" and a couple of bucks will get me a cup of coffee, not to mention my wallet was hurting. I began to feel there better be more of a "payoff" than being "cute", so began looking at what I was really trying to accomplish with all of this. To be perfectly honest, most of us don't know unless we think about it, we just know it feels "right."

I began to really look at my motivation for doing this and if it was really worth the price I paid to enjoy it. What I discovered is that I was getting in touch with my deep feelings, feelings I had previously thought were forbidden for me to express as a man and feelings I could only express en femme because in that way I was free to do so. This gave me the ability to freely interact with others, especially those who accepted me. The real "payoff" for me was real freedom to express my feelings and by opening up I began to get to know others with a new level of tolerance and understanding. After quite a bit of effort and introspection, I was able to express my feelings in either mode.

All in all I pulled a potential disaster out of the dregs of defeat and used it in a positive way as a value added learning experience. I have new faith in people as a result. The ball is in our court with this. Ultimately how we are viewed as individuals and as a community is up to us and we get out of it what we put into it. What is the real value to us? Only we can answer that.:happy:

[Shadeauxmarie]

I watched Tootsie again the other day. At the end, Dustin Hoffman had learned that the best part of his "manhood" was his femmeness.

It's a shame "we" sometimes have to wear an article of clothing to express this.

[deja true]

It starts to worry me a little sometimes that so many of the posts I've seen in my short time here are about the obsession with the clothes and buying them (Check out the sticky 'Look What I Just Bought' or whatever it's called. ) Six dresses at a time? 10 pairs of pantyhose because they were on sale? 4 bras I don't need just because I could?
And the compulsion to buy something every time I pass the Payless or FashionBug or whatever? That's kind of scary. Especially if the poster also has the responsibilities of family, parenthood, career.

What you're talking about Sal, I think, is your emergence from the 'Pink Fog', a concept I fully comprehend. All the girls say the 'fog' comes and goes, but it looks like you've come out of it for good with your 'selfhood' altered permanently in the best way possible.

Some here are searching for that. Most, I think, are not. Or won't because the pleasures of the 'fog' are so seductive. Or can't because they're still stuck in the teen-age like euphoria of their first realization that they weren't alone and perverted. (I like and subscribe to the theory bandied about here that when we stop denying ourselves and first come out, no matter what physical age we are, our femme minds are going through a sort of 'puberty'. So a 40 year old newly self-realized tranny can only really think in terms of being a hot-bodied cheerleader or Hooters girl. If we're lucky, we pass through that 'puberty' stage and eventually start to think closer to our real age. Some do it faster than others, some stall out occasionally. A few never do. That's not to say that we shouldn't like to go out and party and revel in the thrill of shopping for new clothes. It's just that the 'fog' makes us obsessive/compulsives about dressing and passing and 'being one of the girls'. )

I read an archived thread yesterday, somewhere way back about page 500 something, by someone who had just come to the same conclusion; that they were getting too wrapped up in the girl life and needed a break. It was making her ignore her job duties, her family responsibilities. She was asking for advice on how to go about reining herself in and finding a balance between her needed femme life and her required man life . Very few symapathetic replies to an obviously conflicted and worried girl. Eventually she sadly said good bye and signed off. Checking her profile, there are no posts after that date. I worry about her. Was she able to find that balance? Is she back with a new, more mature persona. I hope so.

It would be great if we could all get where you are, Sal. Many of us hope to. That's why we search out and read all your posts. There are some GGs and Transwomen and transmen that I also follow. (It's like following your favorite columnist in the NY Times, you know?) All these thoughful and introspective threads have helped me enormously in the search for a 'singularity' of being me, rather than the split personality that so many believe themselves to be (and take for granted that there is no other way).

God bless you, Salandra. I hope She looks after us all as well as she has you.

respect & love

deja

Sorry if I've wandered al ittle off topic, but that's how the confused mind works.

[Shelly67]

I agree to perhaps becoming a little too wired into being enfemme . Can it develo9pe into an obsession ? Sometimes after going back to my male side it really has left me feeling confused , nearly blurting things out , without thinking of whose company I were in . makes me wonder.After having felt all the stress of day to day life drift away once I,ve transformed , is it all too much when I eventually go back to drab . Makes me feel like I,ve just came home from a relaxing holiday , and facing up to rejoining the rat race . Strange .
I wouldn,t however stop dressing . I may have to curb my spending mind . I,ve more clothes than my lovely wife at present - and the wardrobe is growing every week .
Perhaps I need a hobby - golf maybe ...lol ?

In short what do I get out of it . Being me I suppose ,but in the end hating going back and putting all my female things away , however looking foward to the next time with great anticipation.

[TGMarla]

There is a part of my personality that enjoys "being" female. I give that part of me the outlet it needs by dressing the part. I like looking this way, and I often get off on it, too. But transition is not in my future, and I have to watch it so that the ol' "Pink Fog" doesn't whine at me too much. Keeping it in check is always necessary, seldom enjoyable, and an almost constant struggle.

I don't need to get in touch with inner feminine feelings. I'm already aware of them, and I'm comfortable with them in both modes.

Bottom line, I dress because I like to, and I need the femme time to scratch the itch that's almost always there.

Like I said. I like looking this way, and I like the way looking this way makes me feel.

[Kate Simmons]

In spite of everything that has happened in connection with my development of myself, I still enjoy my femme side as much as I enjoy my guy side, so don't take this as a "downer" or of possible "things to come". Nothing is inevitable really and a lot depends on us. I do, however, have a new perspective on things. It seems that once I did make the decision to "come out" and really experience this as much as possible, I went through the different "stages" in a relatively short time.

I went through the euphoric "teenage" period and was really enjoying being a girl as much as I could conceive of anyway. Then something strange happened, I started to become "mature", not unlike women do and even though most of the experiences were one sided for the most part, the feelings followed through nonetheless, with even some of my friends accommodating some of my needs and feelings. This was a more realistic virtual reality in a way and this all brought me up to speed to where I am today not unlike what Captain Picard went through in a short time in the episode of STTNG entitled "The inner light" wherin he lived the life of another person of a dead civilization. This is what I'm alluding to when I say we make our own "reality". It's as real to us as we make it and it was no less so in this respect for me.

The value of the whole experience to me cannot be under stated. It's not so much whether we are this or that but finding out what we are capable of as a person by experiencing different feelings and emotions, sometimes actually living them to the extent possible. I feel it has been worth the effort and while self exploration is not for everyone, I could do no less in connection with myself and I felt what I knew was meaningless unless I knew who I was. Talents and capabilities are fine and good but unless you really know yourself, they are merely window dressings and we prove who we really are by the way we use them.:happy:

[Nicki B]

It's a shame "we" sometimes have to wear an article of clothing to express this.

A friend of mine said to me some years ago 'It's such a shame we have to put a disguise on, just to be ourselves?'


(She's since survived depression and then being very close to a 7/7 bomb in a Tube train, and still thinks it's worth it, so it's a very deep need?)

[Nicki B]

I feel it has been worth the effort and while self exploration is not for everyone, I could do no less in connection with myself and I felt what I knew was meaningless unless I knew who I was. Talents and capabilities are fine and good but unless you really know yourself, they are merely window dressings and we prove who we really are by the way we use them.:happy:

Sal, so often now, you sound bitter-sweet, as if you feel you've reached an impasse? :hmmm:

Surely once you've managed to find yourself, the best thing you can do is what you are doing now - helping others to find themselves? :)

Note to mods - this isn't a multi-quote because a) Sal posted while I was writing the first and b) I think they are totally separate points?

[Kate Simmons]

Not so much bitter sweet Nicki as it is anti-climactic. It's somewhat disquieting to see others struggling with things sometimes when the answer is truely right in front of us. We get so "tied up" sometimes in things that we just don't take the time to listen to ourselves and our feelings. It's not shooting rockets to the moon , it's mostly just taking the time to stop, take a breath and smell the coffee. It's about self awareness really and if just one person can be helped to understand that, it is time well spent.:happy:

[deja true]

"...It's about self awareness really and if just one person can be helped to understand that, it is time well spent."


That's a realistic goal, Sal. If you tried to get everybody to think, you'd be frustrated as hell. Ain't gonna happen!

"Self awareness? Huh! All that psychology stuff is for collitch guys and them damn Noo Yawk city fags. Ahm happy jus' being me with Mabel and the dawgs!"

You've no doubt helped more than just one. Thinking people here like you and Nicki and Lex and few more are the real treasures in this fun house.

deja

[Kate Simmons]

Yup and weez all pirates too. Come on the Genderquest and join the fun me hearties.:happy:

[deja true]

We likes the rum and plunder (especially the lacey things), but the search for virgins to despoil is getting harder and harder...


Aaaaaarrrghhh!

[Nicki B]

We likes the rum and plunder (especially the lacey things), but the search for virgins to despoil is getting harder and harder...

Don't you find your lippy all comes off, on the cutlass? I do... :hmmm:

[Deborah Jane]

I guess that at the moment i,m still in the pink fog stage. But by coming here and chatting and listening to everyone else i,m starting to learn more about it.
Right now it,s still about the clothes, the makeup and the newness of acceptance after years of "self denial". I,m still learning who i am and what i want from all this.
In the long term i hope to discover the "real me".

[Kate Simmons]

I just wanted to point out that self discovery doesn't have to be all somber and serious either. I've always had and still have one hell of a good time.;):battingeyelashes:

[Alice B]

T.G Marla pretty well says it for me. Not something I need to do, but something I enjoy when I can. I do have to be careful about letting it get out of control.

[MJ]

[QUOTE=Salandra;1201967]
I began to really look at my motivation for doing this and if it was really worth the price I paid to enjoy it. What I discovered is that I was getting in touch with my deep feelings, feelings I had previously thought were forbidden for me to express as a man and feelings I could only express en femme because in that way I was free to do so. This gave me the ability to freely interact with others, especially those who accepted me. The real "payoff" for me was real freedom to express my feelings and by opening up I began to get to know others with a new level of tolerance and understanding. After quite a bit of effort and introspection, I was able to express my feelings in either mode.

From a ts point of view it was being able to express my true-self. as a guy i did not fit in anywhere . like watching a hockey game from the side lines when i so wanted to be in the game. i could not relate to the guys and as a guy i could not fit in with the girls .. for me the pay off is quite amazing as now i am full time i am one of the girls now i have found my place . now i can communicate with the woman and feel as one. and i also feel more comfortable around my "guy " friends my comfort level is way better . you may not understand that but 4 years ago life was not worth living as i could not stay living as "Paul " but now mj is content despite life's little hick up's ..
but for me as many here fear, it cost me dearly a wonderful wife of 21 years my children , job , some family and friends .. a high price to pay . if only i was true to myself from the start . thank you ...

[Deborah Jane]

I just wanted to point out that self discovery doesn't have to be all somber and serious either. I've always had and still have one hell of a good time.;):battingeyelashes:

I,m definatily having fun Sal. I really love being Debs!!:D

[Patrice]

Wow, the level of the wisdom I find here still surprises me and I cant say why, I thought Id lost that shock after reading a few of Salandras other posts :)

This thread hits a little closer to home than most in here and also illuminates to me a basic difference in my own case. I seem to be coming at this a little more sideways than the majority, the crossdressing has always been just an ancillary tool to me at its most basic level, not a 'be all and end all obsession' it appears to be to some. I can fully understand how you can lose yourself in it and hit 'rock bottom' though, and only then start to seriously question why and wonder where its all going. But I entered my search with self-knowledge and realization of my true identity as my primary goal. I was plain lost before ever slipping on skirt one, I saw the 'pink fog' on the navigation charts but my course was plotted in a different direction altogether.

There are many forms of Enlightenment, Buddha found his and urged us all to find ours (working on it). It just seems so apparent to me that Salandra has gotten there ahead of us and is jacking up the candlepower on the lighthouse:)

[TSchapes]

Be careful what you pretend to be, because you are what you pretend to be

-Kurt Vonnegut Jr.

I love that line. This goes for anything we pretend to be, a good father, a good son, a good husband, a good friend...

Sal, I think what this comes down to is one of balance. How do we balance between dressing and family? How do we balance what we spend on our "hobby" and what we spend on everything else? And since the nature of our activities tends to bring guilt and shame (due to a multitude of reasons), it seems like finding that balance is made all the harder.

But the fun and the joy is in the journey, not the goal. Because the goals we make for ourselves is fleeting. As soon as we reach a goal, we find another.

Practicality has it's place, but to be ruled by that is just as awful as being taken over by your urges.

And balance is in the eye of the beholder. What looks careless and capricious to us may be staid and untenable to others.

A lovely and thought provoking post Sal,

Love Tracy

[Kate Simmons]

Tracy is correct when she mentioned goals. I was quite enthralled for about three hours yesterday watching a PBS series about World War II. This was the first show that they ever made with color footage shot by American servicemen. They knew they had a war to win against tyranny and they went from one objective to the next to accomplish that, often at great cost but the prize was freedom.

Our "war" is not much different in the respect that we fight against prejudice and mis-information. All the boys and girls here in this community are shining examples of honesty and integrity at the most basic level and all we are asking is to be treated like the real people we are. Part of that is understanding who we are. Many of us here have fought the fine fight and continue to do so.

No conflict is ever really won by commanders or military might. It is won by the fighting spirit of the ordinary reluctant heroes who believe in themselves and what they are fighting for. Knowing who we are is a huge step in that goal and by expressing that in a realistic way others are won over, one step at a time, one heart at a time. This is the real deal and is well worth the effort but it does require courage. That courage is the courage to be ourselves, nothing more or less.:happy:

[waspookie6]

Threads like these are what have helped both my DH and I 'grow' at an almost alarming rate - we were a bit of a stagnant pond before he came out, to both of us. I'll always read and re-read these gems to better understand life overall.

The truly amazing factor is we realized what brought us together initially were the many parts, like facets on a diamond, that make us shine. We both began a lot of searching, finding out some almost reverse things many of what you go through to find our "inner shine" come out again. Maybe it isn't in reverse, maybe it is the same for us all.

He was the manly man every woman went to with to talk about problems in their lives - the big shoulder. Wives will come to him at conferences and confide personal things they won't to anyone else. Public speaking is his forte', he never has to use an outline or notes and everyone can follow. Also a great teacher of computer basics and project management, it became part of his job description.
I was the tomboy. Race cars, build houses, cuss like a sailor (ok, a very drunk Marine), manage the finances, own at least one business at any given time. A problem solver so to speak, people know I'm always open to call and get an answer to just about any issue they are trying to navigate. Consumer Advocate for anyone.

Can you see where the conflict can come in? Can you see where we compliment each other? Whatever the situation, we knew if the other was better at it and step back keeping their back.

We forgot that part. Coming here and counseling has helped him find out what dressing meant for and to him, for me it's been a reminder I'm a gg and can still be a caring one at that. We have re-discovered who we are and why we have been incorporating his dressing in our lives - and my not being a tomboy 24/7 as well. It is balance both deep inner selves that can't help but to extend outwards. The amusing part to this is we enjoy not waking up to the same person all the time, it avoids what we now term "rut relationship".
I know that can be unsettling to many couples but to be clear, it isn't chaotic it's just a twist in the day that makes things more interesting.

This has been a journey for both of us and it isn't over yet. I still have some limits at this time, he watches out for pink fog banks. He is more comfortable with who he is no matter what he's wearing, something that seemed clouded all his life. I'm feeling more female than I have for a very long time, something I needed to be whole again.

We also know we will change again in the future as circumstances like retirement come up. At least we have this now to help in the future, how to redefine who we are and incorporate that as well when need be. As Salandra mentioned, it isn't rocket science. It's humans being. :happy:

[Sheila]

Sal and everyone else,
you have given me much needed hope, following our bad few days,after reading this thread, maybe just maybe M can reach a point of balnce and calmness with all this.

:hugs:to you all

Jess

[TxKimberly]

That is a really awesome question. As you describe, I spend a lot of time and effort for this. In addition to the time and effort to get ready each time I go out, I epilate my arms and legs once every week or two. I used to wax my chest, but apparently almost a decade of doing that has killed the majority of the hair I used to have there (Thank Goodness). The point being, yes I've spent a lot of time and effort, and enured a good amount of pain for it, and why? What do I get out of it that is worth what I'm putting in to it?
I really don't have a good solid answer other than It makes me happy and makes me feel complete. Most of my life I feel like the ugly caterpillar and every once in a while, for just a few hours, I get to be a pretty butterfly. That really is all there is to it.

[Eugenie]

I'm just addicted :tongueout No rationale...

Like many here, I spend far too much money, time and above all attention to my "femme side"...

While I will rush through department stores when I go for men clothes, I can spend hours browsing through the women section of department stores...

And you, you are right, it isn't really a good return on investment :heehee:

Since I'm not living "en femme" 24/7, I get to use my women clothes rather little time during the week...

Oh well..........

:hugs:
Eugenie

[RobertaFermina]

By putting myself into a different box, I realize that I was in a box in the first place...and I don't really need another box to be who I am...even if it is gift-wrapped.

So now that I'm enlightened, Great!....when's my next outing !?

:rose: Roberta :rose: