To pass or not to pass?

[Roberta Rain]

I see a lot of people talking about passing or not passing. I would love to be able to go out and just walk around in my everyday life as a girl/guy rather than having to appear as all guy or pass as a lady. I would like to wear a skirt, nail polish, and stubble, all on the same day. I'd just like to be able to be the guy in a skirt or the woman with a man's face and hands. Am I the only one here that really doesn't care about passing? I would almost rather not pass, because I want to be accepted for who I am, not for someone else. I'm just me... I live in a guy's body, but I have two natures. In a way, I feel half female. It seems normal to me. At some fundamental level, I've never been able to understand how everyone else could really want to be only half of themself. I guess it doesn't feel that way to them though. I don't see any problem with being somone in the middle. I like it. Dressed in the middle is where I honestly, genuinely want to be. Both individual natures, and both ways of dressing, male and female, are really just different ways of trying to bend the real me to fit in to one of the two socially known and accepted standards. I understand that some people live in a male body and feel no female aspect. I also understand that some people live in a male body and find it completely alien and unsuited to reflect any aspect of themself. Neither of these, however, fits me. The 'real' me is neither male or female. I am now, and have been all of my life, both. Does this ring any bells?

[TGMarla]

I would like to wear a skirt, nail polish, and stubble, all on the same day. I'd just like to be able to be the guy in a skirt or the woman with a man's face and hands.Well, you could probably pull that off with no problem. Just throw on a skirt and some nail polish, chuck the wig and makeup, and hoof it downtown.

On the other hand, you might wanna not. :D

[Patrice]

Complete Agreement, hehe. Nothing to add or contribute excep a heartfelt AMEN!

[Eva Marie]

Well stated argument, but why? To create an extreme analogy, perhaps at times you feel the desire to kill someone. You don't (do you?) because that action is just too far removed from the "norm" of our society and not worth the consequences. On the other hand, there's a time and place for everything, and someplace and some time you'll be accepted just "as you are". Try Burning Man.

[ChanDelle]

Good question and thought out. But...and there's always a but..I'd love to pass and blend in so my outside would match what I feel on the inside and not feel awkward and scrutinized. But (again) I think I can understand how you feel if we just can't pass.

For me, the point's not to decieve anyone, but to be who I think I really am...

ChanDelle

[docrobbysherry]

For me, the point's not to decieve anyone, but to be who I think I really am...
ChanDelle

I dress for an entirely different reason! Deception is a VERY important thing for me. Not to fool anyone else, just myself. The farther Sherry gets from Robert, the more I enjoy CDing.

I'm NOT aware of a " female aspect" of my personality. On the other hand, if I don't have one, what possessed me to put on those ladies things in the first place?
I guess we ALL have our CD demons, don't we?

[bridget thronton]

I tend to agree. When I am out, I wear skirts or skirt suits and don't worry about trying to pass. I have not had many negative experiences, but I don't dress in my hometown either.

[Linda-x]

Although I don't think that many of us pass 100%, at close scrutiny, I feel that every effort should be made to present ourselves well when in public. In the past when I have seen I bearded man in a dress, or some other 'fetish" type behavior and dress, I become very annoyed! My feeling is that serious CD/TG, people are being set back to the Jerry Springer image in the public eye !!!
I know I need to have the same tolerance as I expect it from the general public, but I do have limits. I was at a club the other night, and there were a couple of guy's dressed more in 'costume', acting very male. I felt they were mocking us crossdressing girls. Maybe I need to lighten up, but this is how I felt. I belong to a CD social group, that avocates trans. issues all the time, bringing dignity to us girls with there public speaking, and events. Androgynous dressing, if that what you are talking about, is a bit different, if done with common sense

[mikecd999]

Well I agree with Roberta Rain, I like being just a guy in a skirt. Although as my hair is now past my sholders I am mistaken as a female most of the time. I think we should be able to wear what we want, skirt, dress or jeans.
Roberta, if I lived in northwest ark I would spend more time in Eureka Springs, we go there a couple of times a year to the Enfem gathering. Seems no one there cares what you wear.
Mike:happy:

[sandra-leigh]

I feel that every effort should be made to present ourselves well when in public.


I respect that that is how you feel, but I do not feel the same way.


In the past when I have seen I bearded man in a dress, or some other 'fetish" type behavior and dress, I become very annoyed!

Butterfly Bill, a long-time member of this forum, often goes out as a bearded man in a dress. Personally, I consider him to be very brave for doing so.


My feeling is that serious CD/TG, people are being set back to the Jerry Springer image in the public eye !!!

And what is a "serious CD/TG" ? Am I somehow less serious about being CD/TG because I am willing to be seen as a CD/TG rather than buying into the idea that you can be a man or you can be a woman (if only in disquise), but you cannot be somewhere between? Or when I do it, am I instead more serious about pushing the generally-perceived boundaries and demonstrating that one can be "both" at the same time?

I am not sure what the "Jerry Springer" image is, but it is to be "clownish" or "trashy" then that is not me. Not that I don't like to dress "sexy" or in an ultra mini, or wear tight fitting clothes from time to time, but the great majority of the time that I go out, I go out in something that blends or something that "looks nice". I have a bit of the typical crossdressers' problem, of attracting a bit of attention because I look nicer for the situation than the average woman would, clothes a bit more expensive or a bit more "classic" than (for example) a typical woman would tend to wear to a suburban grocery store. Even at a club, I'm noticeable because the most common club-wear for women these days is a top and jeans or low-key pants, and I'm there in a dress or pant-suit or skirt. Not clownish or trashy: nice clothes worn with pride. With or without makeup and wig.


(You can't always predict what people will like -- I bought a top recently that is tailored to show off one's breasts (sort of pockets that they fit into); I bought it thinking of feeling nicely trashy wearing it, but I have had several women tell me that they like it.)

[Nicki B]

Linda - if you don't want people to judge you, perhaps you could try not to judge others? 'Cos that's what you're doing... :sad:

This world should be big enough for all our diversity - and if it learns to be, then no one has a problem? :)

[shirley1]

i think passing is more of an obsession or need for those of us who havnt really treaded the boards yet - you know wanting to go out for the first time but worried about how you look - peoples reaction - maybe those that go out a lot and realise passings no big deal realise its not that important after all - hope i get to that stage !

[mylilsecret8]

I'd just like to be able to be the guy in a skirt ... The 'real' me is neither male or female. I am now, and have been all of my life, both. Does this ring any bells?

I like to dress what I call the Tom Boy look where I am a mix of femme and boy. While I try to look very femminine and often wish I could pass better, I also enjoy being "a guy in a skirt". Maybe it is my exhibitionist side or the excitement I get from the taboo act of a guy wearing girls clothes but I really enjoy when genetic girls notice. I often look at pretty clothes online but never order them because I so enjoy going to the mall and telling the salesgirls I'm shopping for myself.

Because I can't completly pass I don't dress completely femme (dress, heels, wig, makeup) etc when I go to the mall and typically wear womens jeans, a top that is more uni sex so I don't stand out too much but up close people can see I'm a guy who is dressed a bit femme. Even if I go to a gay or open minded club or on halloween and dressed completely femme, I like being "discovered" that I am a guy dressed as a girl.

[Diane098]

I wouldnt say that I am trying to pass. I know that I never could. What I am doing is just being ME. I get tired of acting as a man. I wish that I could just be accepted as who I feel like instead of the act that I feel my life has become.

[debbeelee1]

I'm not passable unless it's very, very dark and the people around me are very, very drunk! I just like to get dressed and go out and have a good time as "a man in a dress"!:battingeyelashes:

[JoAnnDallas]

I already do some of what you want to do. Everyday I goto work wearing panites and a bra under my drab clothing, but I also have long acrlic nails with a light Pink Polish on them. I also wear flesh colored lipstick and sometimes I even add a little foundation and powder to the mix. I even color my eyebrows with a eyebrow pencil. No one notices any difference in me. many younger men do go out wearing fem clothing while at the same time presenting themselfs as male. I think it is called "Metrosexual look".
I once wore a ladies blouse, ladies slacks, and ladies shoes to the groecery store once. No one notice and I was called "Sir" many times.
There are men that WILL wear skirts, blouses, heels out but still present themselves as male. There are even websites for this mode. Do a seach for "Men in skirts". I am sure you can find these sites.

[Melissa A.]

Although I don't think that many of us pass 100%, at close scrutiny, I feel that every effort should be made to present ourselves well when in public. In the past when I have seen I bearded man in a dress, or some other 'fetish" type behavior and dress, I become very annoyed! My feeling is that serious CD/TG, people are being set back to the Jerry Springer image in the public eye !!!
I know I need to have the same tolerance as I expect it from the general public, but I do have limits. I was at a club the other night, and there were a couple of guy's dressed more in 'costume', acting very male. I felt they were mocking us crossdressing girls. Maybe I need to lighten up, but this is how I felt. I belong to a CD social group, that avocates trans. issues all the time, bringing dignity to us girls with there public speaking, and events. Androgynous dressing, if that what you are talking about, is a bit different, if done with common sense

I couldn't have said it better. Thanks, Linda. I know there's a wide spectrum out there, and I understand that we're all different. But speaking as someone who is closer to ts than cd, Dignity and respect is important to me. Being the woman inside you is entirely different from wanting to wear certain clothes. I have no problem with androgenous dressing. But if you want to wear a skirt and heels with stubble, be prepared for a negative reaction. I have been read on the street by people who just smile, or even tell me I look nice. But I'm presenting myself as totally female, as best I can. You don't have to pass, just present yourself a certain way. Many in society are becoming more and more accepting of cds and tgs. (many more aren't yet, I know!) But someone presenting themselves as a guy in a dress? I must admit, on some level, I'm not entirely comfortable with that, maybe because I think it affecte people's perceptions of me and my sisters.

Hugs,

Melissa:)

[Claudia Zylindrias]

I agree with most of you at one point or another. I have been both full en-fem and many times just a guy in a skirt and some make-up. While I will never pass at times I do enjoy "surendering" completely to my female side. While more often than not I just enjoy being me, who is quite androgynous.

Also thanks to media icons like Pete Wentz and other bands from the 80's to today. Also coupled with the fact that I live in the northeast. Most people don't even give me a second glance. With the exception of mid-teenaged girls, who want to talk to me. As long as we all behave in a considerate and positive manner reguardless of what we wear or do, their should be no problems.

I have even had discussion at Best Buy when I returned a game boy for my kid but I could not find the service warrenty. The manager remember me due to the fact that I wear a skirt or kilt every now and again. We spend talking for the next 10 min about the fact that he also owned a couple of kilts but didn't want to wear it out because his g/f kept trying to pull it up. In good fun of course. I haven't had any negative reactions at least not that I know of.

(FYI- I normally wear a skirt, nail polish, and eyeliner.)

[PatriciaT]

Hi Roberta,

You have broached a very difficult topic but I would like to deal with this sentence first as it really does strike a note with me:
“I would almost rather not pass, because I want to be accepted for who I am, not for someone else. I'm just me... I live in a guy's body, but I have two natures. In a way, I feel half female. It seems normal to me.”

This subject of “passing” comes up a lot. It seems to me that the majority of CDs realize that at best they can only pass some of the time but most of the time at some point they are read. Striving for passing is a good idea as it makes you aware of how you look. However or most of us passing on a regular basis is not possible. The goal we should strive for is the one you mention, being accepted for what you are, a male en femme, doing this to express the innate female aspect of a CD. This is attainable.
I have tried the androgynous approach and although it does work to some extent, a lot depends on how well you pull this off, how natural you look. In the end result, especially if you look a bit odd in the attire you chose, some of people will find this comical, strange, or even grotesque. Personally I found this unfulfilling as dressed this way I was neither expressing my male or female aspect completely but some kind of hybrid. I wasn’t comfortable being neither. I didn’t know what to make of myself and I think much of the rest of the world didn’t either.
I now find that dressing as a female, tastefully, and in a very feminine fashion works far better, even when I am read. This way of appearing, very feminine, even though I am still regarded as a “man in a dress” really seems to appeal to the GGs in particular and also to a lot of older women. Even a fair number of men seem not to be bothered by this. I guess the secret is to look non threatening. If you look good, and go with confidence, you stand a good chance of being accepted for what you are..

This comment also really rings bells with me:

“I also understand that some people live in a male body and find it completely alien and unsuited to reflect any aspect of themself. Neither of these, however, fits me. The 'real' me is neither male or female. I am now, and have been all of my life, both. Does this ring any bells?”

This is in effect a simple, but accurate of what a CD is, a male with both a male and female aspect. For 3-5% of the male population in the US at least this is normal therefore if it seems normal to you, then it is. Usually we need to express both aspects, but one at a time. I honestly prefer my female aspect and expressing that, but I cannot disassociate myself from my male aspect either.
It sounds to me that you fit the CD definition very well. How you express your two aspects is up to you. When I express my male aspect, I do this completely, the same with my female aspect. Mixing them seems to me like trying to mix oil and water. They are just too different. I find that doing one at a time is the most rewarding, fulfilling way, and the one which enables me to be accepted for what I am. You might too.

Patricia

[sandra-leigh]

But speaking as someone who is closer to ts than cd, Dignity and respect is important to me. Being the woman inside you is entirely different from wanting to wear certain clothes. [...] But someone presenting themselves as a guy in a dress? I must admit, on some level, I'm not entirely comfortable with that, maybe because I think it affecte people's perceptions of me and my sisters.


I have several times gone out and about in what was unquestionably a skirt and blouse (and noticeable but not exaggerated bust) in guy mode. I have a couple of times gone out in a plain dress (denim mid-knee) in guy mode. I did once go out in a definitely femme dress in guy mode, but not "about", just to a mostly-male club. I've gone out and about a few times in pant suits in guy mode.

How were reactions? Only one problem (early on) in several years (a guy followed me in his car, took some pictures of me, wanted to know if I wanted some "work" later that evening.) I've had more difficulties (none severe) fully dressed than in mixed gender.

Dignity and respect: when I flew home a couple of weeks ago, dressed in a long skirt and obvious woman's blouse, but no wig, I walked through the airports with lots of dignity and respect and a big smile -- and had no problem from anyone, not even a frown when I went into the mens washroom (a few times, nervous bladder).

A couple of days ago, as my wife and I prepared to go out to my CD club annual dinner, she asked why I always dressed like an executive, like someone in a board-room. Well, I don't always, but that should give you a good hint that what I'm wearing is respectable clothes, not something clownish or exaggerated or ****ty (well, not usually :devil: ). The respect and dignity of you and "your sisters" is not being damaged by my gender-bending. On the contrary: I find a lot of people respect me for openly crossdressing, and I have inadvertently become a minor ambassador for crossdressing, people remembering that I was a polite and pleasant person who looked good and was happy. In some cases I was the first known crossdressing customer that they had had, and they didn't expect to be comfortable with crossdressing, but now they are pleased to get other crossdressing customers.

[Blixa]

So well said, tess-leigh. I do the same thing myself and I love the whole exec look as well. And yes, i don't shave completely leaving stubble above and below my mouth. This way i never have to worry at all about passing (not that i would have to even if i did take it all off). Because i dress in a stylish and blendy manner with a positive attitude assuming acceptance, not only do i not get any negative reactions but quite the opposite, especially from GGs who make me feel as just one of the girls.

[StacyCD]

I am more concerned at being 'accepted' as my gender presentation than I am about fooling someone else that I am a woman. I try hard at makeup but upon inspection I'm always going to be a guy in a dress--I guess you know where I stand on passing. However, anyone who is different will stand out and be observed more closely. I remember back in the 80s seeing guys with pierced ears! Now with so many guys with pierced ears it doesn't get a second glance! A bald man wearing a dress and heels is going to stand out (at least most of the places I frequent) but what is more important is whether or not s/he is comfortable with who that are and that they are treated just like everyone else. It took me a long time to become comfortable with my fem-side and I'm still a bit nervous about being accepted/tolerated when I'm out dressed. So in the end it becomes two issues; one that is personal and the other that is societal. I have no insights on either except that society tends to be more accepting with time of differences.

[Joy Carter]

I may frump around the house in just a skirt and top. But I like to fully dress as a female out in public. But if you yourself wants to part dress, or bi-dress, I'd be more than supportive of you. Acceptance is what we here are all seeking here, is it not ?

[Florence Tidji]

I don't care about passing because I know I don't pass. It's better to be convinced that no CD is really passing and when you have understood that, then you can go out without any stress: you are not afraid people don't see you as a genetic girl because you know they won't!!!

The pictures may give the impression that some of us may pass but we are all choosing the right picture. Have you seen any topmodel in the street: it's usually far away from their pictures in the magazine. For us, it's the same: pictures may show a better illusion than we are in the reality... Unfortunately!!!

Well, follow my "theory": we know we don't pass so we can now all go out!!! Good luck to those who did not try yet: it's a fantastic experience...

[Jilmac]

Roberta, I have been a closet dresser most of my life and have just recently come out. When I was in the closet I sported a full beard (36 yrs continuous growth), and I was just a guy in a skirt. Since I've come out I have shaved my beard off but still have a very masculine looking face. To me, passing is how one presents herself in public, not how feminine she looks. I have seen some very masculine looking GGs wearing very feminine clothes and presenting themselves very well. I will always do the best I can to present myself in a feminine way whenever I'm en femme, but I know I'm not really fooling anybody into thinking I am actually a woman. I have so many masculine features such as hands, a visible tatoo, arm hair, and a baritone voice that are dead giveaways to my masculinity, so I would rather just be myself than try to "pass" as a female. Luv and :hugs: Jill

[Maria2004]

I think trying to "pass" does us more harm then good sometimes when out in public. It's often stated that most people won't notice us because they are busy with their own lives and concerns and if they do notice, it's easier to deal with and dismiss the obvious "oh look, a man in a dress, imagine that" (goes about business) then an ambiguity "hey look at that girl....wait a minute..." (scratches head). Though I dress "full out" I do so because I like the look, it makes me happy with no attempt at trying to pass, I've still ended up confusing people about exactly who and what I am until I get a chance to converse with them. One case in particular, I visited a group that claimed to open and tolerant of all orientations so I decided to check it out. I dressed (in this outfit) (http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p264/MariaAndres/cropped3z.jpg)and paid a visit. Overall I was warmly welcomed with one exception, a gentleman there was enraged at my presence, yet they were baffled. They had seen a lot of mixed mode dressers, that was accepted, but they had never seen a full out MtF CD before and didn't even know we existed. I continued to visit weekly and the person that had gotten so upset at my first visit, once he got to know me both femme and drab, and understood that I wasn't trying to trick anyone into thinking I was a RG, that it was part of who I am as a person, completely changed his attitude and apologized.


It's said over and over again here, it's not how we look or dress, but how we feel about ourselves. As Florence has also mentioned, for those of us that like to go out, it's so much less stressful to simply get over passing and get on with living. :love:

[Lucy Bright]

Hi Roberta,

When I express my male aspect, I do this completely, the same with my female aspect. Mixing them seems to me like trying to mix oil and water. They are just too different. I find that doing one at a time is the most rewarding, fulfilling way, and the one which enables me to be accepted for what I am. You might too.

Patricia

I think that must be the experience of many of us, because so many things in our society come 'pre-gendered' - not just clothes but words, tones of voice, gestures, attitudes, occupations, etc etc. Whatever you do, people (often including you) are all too ready to read it as male or female, and there just doesn't seem to be that much unclaimed territory - no-man's land? - in between.

That's the way society is, at the moment, but it's a source of constant anguish to many of us, because we can't recognize ourselves fully in either gender. If we want to change the situation we can do no better than follow Roberta's line (if I read it correctly) and make being TG into a positive statement rather than a kind of not-really-this-nor-that-neither equivocation.

Kisses,

Lucy

[Danicd]

Isn't this all just about feeling good about ourselves regardless what others percive us as? If it feels good do it as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else!

[shirley1]

maybe we all are too obsessed with this thing called passing - it is surely acceptance that is needed - what about the ts's that have to live their lives everyday unable to pass - theyre far braver than i will probably ever be - i've only just changed my stance on this mainly through meeting and talking to various people withi the tg scene - and i just think now we should just all try and help one another rather than just worrying about who can pass and who cant

i said this on another one of my posts that going out and feeling invisble is a great feeling - but think about it its never gonna do anything to change the way society is - if we could all go out and wear what we like without worrying about what peoples perceptions of us would be wouldnt it be just that little bit of a better world to live in !

[slamddoger]

in the mall you cant tail ho mail or femail what i think give us away is thath we get scared be in the mall. or are out fit dontsn mach or we got to much makup on or are wig dosnt not look good on us. . you just cant tail some of them look put togather and dont look scared

[Melissa A.]

Dignity and respect: when I flew home a couple of weeks ago, dressed in a long skirt and obvious woman's blouse, but no wig, I walked through the airports with lots of dignity and respect and a big smile -- and had no problem from anyone, not even a frown when I went into the mens washroom (a few times, nervous bladder).

respect and dignity of you and "your sisters" is not being damaged by my gender-bending. On the contrary: I find a lot of people respect me for openly crossdressing, and I have inadvertently become a minor ambassador for crossdressing, people remembering that I was a polite and pleasant person who looked good and was happy.

I believe you are right Tess,having reflected on this subject and your post, and I am sorry. All of us in the spectrum involving gender are sisters and brothers, and I momentarilly forgot that. Being critical of anyone over what they want to wear was wrong of me, and is the kind of view that causes all of us difficulties. Thanks for making me think about that. Perhaps what I meant to say, is that it's something I'M not comfortable doing, and maybe got a bit carried away. I still think there is a difference in motivation, there, and a fundamental difference in what we want. But that is, and should be just fine. If you can carry yourself with confidence and class every bit as much, if not more, as a "femme" cd or a tg like myself, More power to you. I apologise, and support you.

Hugs,

Melissa:)

[yms]

I've never tried what you are suggesting, going out dressed partially male and female. I go to one extreme or the other, but I don't pass at either extreme.

The other day I went to the gym (as a male). I have long hair and I wear a ski cap when I work out (it's cold in that place). What little facial hair I have is white now.

As I was walking out of the locker room a guy walked in and he stopped and turned and said, genuinely confused, "Woah, is this the ladies locker room?"

Sigh.

Gender-bending is the term, I think, what what you are describing, and I guess it's somewhat popular with today's youth.

[Roberta Rain]

Thank you for the responses. It sounds like, while a lot of other people out there are in the same quandry of being 'neither here nor there' and have come to like it, there are also quite a lot of people, even in the tg and cd communities that find a middle ground to be offensive. I guess if I were really worried about making everyone happy, I would just try real hard not to dress at all. As it is, I'm going to keep bending the rules. I think, for a lot of 'gender unusual' people, the path we take is governed by compromise. If I dress this way, and can't pass, will I be able to hold a job? If I dress that way, will I be found bleeding in a ditch? If I dress this other way, will my spouse leave me? If I behave in such and such a way, will all of my friends stop, look at me as if I'm an idiot, and then reject me? I guess that, fundamentally, who I am and what I do is a combination of positive character elements and motivations, aspects of who and what I am inside, and compromises that I make in order to live in this world. I will not be shoved in to being all male. I can't be all female. Even if I was able to pull it off, I think some aspects of me would still be uncontained and uncontainable. As it is, I just have to find a middle ground that the world can deal with and that I can feel whole with. I just gotta be me, an individual, just like everyone else.
Again, thanks for all the responses. It's nice to be able to, for the first time in 36 years, be able to talk to someone else about this stuff. As I've said before, outside of this list, I've never once had a conversation, knowingly, with another cross dresser. I always thought they only existed on obscure and sensationalistic TV shows. I never imagined that I would ever be able to network with others. It's nice to be able to dialogue and work some of this stuff out with frineds. Knowing your not alone is worth millions.
Knowing you are not alone beats the heck out of seeing yourself as a freak in a closet, going through self hatred and purging, never knowing what is wrong with you, never fitting in to your society, and knowing that there are substantial numbers of people out there that would literally kill you for just being yourself. Thanks, whether you agree with my viewpoints or not, for being here. I appreciate it.

[Roberta Rain]

Oh. and I forgot to say... I admire you all tremendously. Thanks from the bottom of my heart for every time you dress, every time you break the rules, every time you get 'read', and every time you don't. I admire and appreciate you all. You have paved and continue to pave the way for the rest of us so that we can just be ourselves.

[Billie Jean]

Although I don't think that many of us pass 100%, at close scrutiny, I feel that every effort should be made to present ourselves well when in public. In the past when I have seen I bearded man in a dress, or some other 'fetish" type behavior and dress, I become very annoyed! My feeling is that serious CD/TG, people are being set back to the Jerry Springer image in the public eye !!!
I know I need to have the same tolerance as I expect it from the general public, but I do have limits. I was at a club the other night, and there were a couple of guy's dressed more in 'costume', acting very male. I felt they were mocking us crossdressing girls. Maybe I need to lighten up, but this is how I felt. I belong to a CD social group, that avocates trans. issues all the time, bringing dignity to us girls with there public speaking, and events. Androgynous dressing, if that what you are talking about, is a bit different, if done with common senseWhat is wrong with a man wearing a dress, after all, women wear men's jeans and t shirts without any the less being thought of them. But if a man is in a dress he is automatically some kind of pervert even if the only thing he is guilty of wanting to be himself. Billie Jean

[Tammygirl]

Ladie,
I put my two cents in here. I have to agree that when in public we should coduct ourself as Ladies! Dressed age apropreate, and try to "PASS" as much as possible! I know I don't "PASS" all the time. For that matter neither do some real women "GG"! They someimes look like men themselfs! Anyway, I ahve been dressing and going out in public for many years now! I try to conduct meself appropreately!
As far as taking it serouly I do and so do most of the Ladie here! Or Why would we be talking about this subject in the first place!
But that's only my two cents worth! Now if you want $50.00 worth well honey let's talk on the phone! Because I will real fill a page!
Love

[notquitegirl]

Whenever I go out (and it's been too long now), I always present "half and half": undeniably male from the waist up, without bothering with a wig or makeup, and short skirt, pantyhose with shaved legs, and heels below. I've done this for years (off and on, unfortunately), all over the country, with minimal problems. I find when I'm "on" I wear skirts, heels, and hose daily, and 80% of people don't notice. Of those remaining, 80% don't care at all. Of those remaining, 95% simply ask questions or have positive comments. I can honestly count the number of negative reactions on one hand, and that includes being fully out to my apartment community for a year before moving out a few years back.

[Kierci]

Having been out in Russellville,clarksville,conway, little rock and chickendale in half mode I have not had any problems , maybe a few looks and giggles but nothing more than that. I'd say go for it and have a good time oh and dont forget to tell us about it when you get back, if you want when I get up that way (which I do often being a truck driver) PM me and we can arrange to get together and go shopping. :hugs: