The final say on the "Gay" issue!

[DemonicDaughter]

I keep seeing these posts on here regarding whether or not a CDer is gay, what to respond when someone asks, how to handle it, so on and so forth!

First, you are only gay if you are sexually, emotionally, etc, attracted to the same sex all the time. Not when they dress a certain way. All. The. Time!

Second, everyone likes to feel beautiful/handsome. Being flirted with by someone of the same sex while you are dressed makes you feel beautiful/handsome. This does not mean you are gay or bi! It means you enjoy looking good and receiving a compliment!

Thirdly, there is nothing wrong with being gay or bi. There is something wrong with being constantly paranoid about it!

Those of us who are gay or bisexual do not question if we are straight. We know we aren't. So please, relax. If you aren't as defined above, you aren't gay.

That said...

If you really want to keep people guessing or to actually have a bit of fun with the endless "are you gay?" question from people, here's an idea:

When asked if you are gay (and you aren't), simply look at them and say...

Yes, I'm a lesbian/gay man (for our handsome FTM).

That should shut them up long enough for you to have a chuckle at their expense.

And honestly... with all the things CDers have to worry about, do you really need to add this unnecessary question to the list? You know that despite your answer, most people have already made up their minds when they ask you this question.

[Michelle-NC]

I do find it funny that quite a few on here have no problem with anyone knowing they are a CDer, and being questioned by that is no problem. However, let someone think they are gay is almost like the end of the world?

My feeling on it is pretty much the same as DD's...if you know you aren't, then that is all that matters...if you are, then you know that, and it doesn't matter either. As long as you are comfortable with yourself, that is what is important.

[deja true]

Well I like it, hun...

But ya know it'll never be the "final word". This stalking horse comes up every couple of weeks and keeps getting inserted in to unrelated threads, as well.

Some of it's because many of the hyper-enthusiastic new members don''t have the patience to read back through the archives a bit.

But some of it still comes from folks who've been around a while and can't get over their own insecurities.

Me? I just don't care what any boor who asks the question thinks. They're not the boss of me!

deja

[DemonicDaughter]

But ya know it'll never be the "final word".

I know it won't be, but I'm always hopeful to bring a few people to terms possibly. Or I'll just keep reposting to it to keep it fresh. :D lol

[Kate Simmons]

I value people for who they are DD and their pursuasion makes little difference. This need for labels thing drives me nutty. Usually if anyone asks me if I'm straight, gay or bi, my answer is:"Yes" or I ask them:"What do you think?". That usually is the end of it and nothing more is said.:)

[Nicki B]

Thirdly, there is nothing wrong with being gay or bi. There is something wrong with being constantly paranoid about it!

Yup..

But if I was one of the many people here who do so identify, I'd be getting pretty p...ed off? :sad:

The comment usually says most about the person who feels they need to say it?

[bEEb]

How bout? "Reasonable people do not casually discuss personal sexuality, regardless of their preferences"

[Anna the Dub]

Well, from my point of view, I really couldn't care less whether anyone thinks I am gay or not. To be honest, it's none of their business really, and they can assume what they want.

[SweetCaroline]

I guessing this is all because of the thread I started last night. I suppose I should clarify that I only brought it up because I get hit on a lot here and at sites like myspace and I get tired of explaining to men that I'm not interested. I'm very polite about, but can't help but feel a little embarrassed about it because I have to explain it to them. In a perfect society where cross dressers were better understood, I wouldn't have to explain.

That's pretty much my last thought on the issue as well. I was just curious about how straight CD men dealt with men hitting on them.

[CaptLex]

When asked if you are gay (and you aren't), simply look at them and say...

Yes, I'm a lesbian/gay man (for our handsome FTM).
So what do I say if I am? :raisedeyebrow:


I only brought it up because I get hit on a lot here and at sites like myspace and I get tired of explaining to men that I'm not interested. I'm very polite about, but can't help but feel a little embarrassed about it because I have to explain it to them.
Well I can understand that, I get tired of explaining to women that I'm not interested, but it goes with the territory, I guess. :p

[DemonicDaughter]

I guessing this is all because of the thread I started last night...

Actually, no, I hadn't read your thread yet, sorry. :( I posted this because in numerous threads its a subject that seems to continuously come up. There's nothing the matter with being curious or even questioning it from time to time. But some people here seem to go on and on about it. They don't understand how insulting it can be to those who are gay/bi because its not as simple as just finding someone of the same sex attractive. We love people, we want to date them, we want to have all the things anyone wants in a relationship. But to have some people go on about how they question their sexuality because they found another CD attractive or because they were flirted with by someone of the same sex, makes it sound as if that's all it takes to being gay/bi. Its not and I get a bit tired of reading it.

I can understand wanting to know the best way to handle answering the question and can even understand a bit of the "am I?" from time to time. But when it seems as if they are insulted to be asked... I get upset.


So what do I say if I am? :raisedeyebrow:

Then say the same thing as above only mean it or tell them its none of their business. :)

[CaptLex]

I can understand wanting to know the best way to handle answering the question and can even understand a bit of the "am I?" from time to time. But when it seems as if they are insulted to be asked... I get upset.
Ditto . . . :thumbsup:


Then say the same thing as above only mean it or tell them its none of their business. :)
I was just messin' with you, DD. :koc:

Actually, most people are surprised (and sometimes unconvinced) when I tell them I'm into guys. There are a lot of us who are attracted to men, but it seems they all believe the myth that transmen were all previously lesbians . . . not that there's anything wrong with that. ;)

[DemonicDaughter]

I was just messin' with you, DD. :koc:

Actually, most people are surprised (and sometimes unconvinced) when I tell them I'm into guys. There are a lot of us who are attracted to men, but it seems they all believe the myth that transmen were all previously lesbians . . . not that there's anything wrong with that. ;)

I know. Its so sad that people HAVE to put labels on everything and HAVE to act like they know the truth and you (collectively speaking) are in denial.

I just find it amazing that society demands these "gender roles" on everyone and if you don't adhere to them then you must be gay/bi. Its ridiculous and all it does is make things more confusing for those who do experience non-mainstream urges. :(

[Kieron Andrew]

god if i got worried everytime a gay man hit on me, i'd have no one hitting on me lol....(well almost lol)

I mean what era do we live in that people STILL think its wrong to have same sex relationships, dont get it! never will

and the ones that bash those for doing so, im sorry they need to seriously take a look at themselves and get a life, my motto is 'try it you might like it', if you dont,so be it, but dont expect everyone else to be the sames you, and dont look down on people just because they choose to identify as gay, there was nothing wrong with being gay 50 years ago )even though people thought there was) and there is nothing wrong with it now!

[CaptLex]

god if i got worried everytime a gay man hit on me, i'd have no one hitting on me lol....
Plus you would have slapped me by now. :heehee: :koc:

Oh wait . . . you do slap me! :tongue:

[Kayla Shadows]

Yep.You either are or you arent..and either way it shouldnt be anything to stress over.Just be who you are.Have fun with the life you have been given and leave the worrying for the major issues.

[darla_g]

I tried to follow this thread .... i really did , but i am really confused now .. LOL aren't we having fun?

[Jilmac]

I have gay friends who have seen Jill and know she's straight. If I am asked by someone who has met Jill for the first time, I simply tell them that if Jill was a GG she would be a lesbian. I don't know if that's an adequate answer to your question of gay but it's my:2c: Luv and :hugs: Jill

[obsessedwithpantyhose]

we are not lables,,,WE are human beings.... :D

[Eugenie]

Thanks for the initial post when you started this thread. It is the most adequate I've read so far on this subject.

You said it much better that I tried to say it several times. :thumbsup:

:hugs:
Eugenie

[EDNA]

Yes! You can call me Gay, but when I started Crossdressing and Men were having sex with me. I was known as an Entertainer. I was told at a young age. That I would never name the Persons. That I had been or going to be with. I was never to perform as a Male and have sex with any other Males or Females. In which only Adult Males and Females. Would be Allowed to have sex with me.

So I an happy to say. In the 40s,50s,60, and part of the 70s. Many Males and Females have had sex with me. I have been filmed. By Adult Film Makers. While being the main Subject and my body used as a Sex Toy.

Then from the Mid 70s. Men still had sex with me and still have been Filmed.
[For thier own uses.] At all Male, all Female and mixed Sex parties and Bondage parties. In which I had a all of wonderful thing done to my Body.
I still enjoy going the Sex parties. Wheneven I am asked. As there is nothing wrong in being Gay and Having other Males and Females. Using Ones Body as thier Sex Toy.

[Rachaelb64]

Gay? Yes at the moment I'm a happy person :heehee:

Being gay and a crossdresser is one problem.

Being straight (me) and crossdresser is another.

Oh for a quite simple life :daydreaming:

[gennee]

It's kind of amazing that with all the junk we go through from straight society that they are so interested in our gender/sexuality.

Gennee


:straightface:

[TxKimberly]

You know, that was so well said that all I can add is my support for the comment. Live is too short to sweat the insignificant stuff.

[CharleneCD]

And honestly... with all the things CDers have to worry about, do you really need to add this unnecessary question to the list? You know that despite your answer, most people have already made up their minds when they ask you this question.

Unfortunately until there is some good re-education of the general public this question will always come up. In their eyes CD = GAY. And even those with no attraction to men buy into this crap. We are already dealing with the stigma of being CD and the thought we might also be gay, becomes a bit much.

Yes the last was a bit broad, and doesnt reflect everyones experience, but it was to make a point. And its all a bunch of crap anyhow. What does it matter that we are gay or CD. It is who we are. The problem is closed minded hypocites who will wave the flag for freedom, but not hesitate to make those who are different from them into second class citizens. Until that changes, the question will still be asked.

[docrobbysherry]

Ok, everyone seem to agree we shouldn't give a rat's behind out the "real" world, what we r, or call ourselves. But, what about here?

I've read a large number of posts from CDs who say they r straight, unless they r dressed. Then a man MITE look good to them!

Maybe the "gay", "bi" thing keeps coming up here, because a number of us r either in denial, or still working out what we actually r?

[Annie D]

As a result of reading all the posts from my original posting, I am no longer concerned to be thought of as gay. As a male, I have always been a loner and have come to realize that the people around me have to accept me as I am. I cannot control what they think of me as a person and if I accept who I am then why should I care what they are thinking? As a result, why should I feel any different as a crossdresser. I want to be noticed when I am in male mode and I really want to be noticed when I am in female mode and I don't care if it is a male or a female who is doing the noticing. I want to be seen as an attractive women.

The feelings about sexual preference surface when we come out to friends and family that we crossdress. They may want to know about our sexual orientation. When we are out as a female, who cares?

If I have ever offended any of you with a comment or post about my homo/hetero/bi/androgonous sexual preference, I apologize. In closing, may I say to everyone, " I love being a girl!" and "Viva la difference!"

[DemonicDaughter]

Ok, everyone seem to agree we shouldn't give a rat's behind out the "real" world, what we r, or call ourselves. But, what about here?

I've read a large number of posts from CDs who say they r straight, unless they r dressed. Then a man MITE look good to them!

Maybe the "gay", "bi" thing keeps coming up here, because a number of us r either in denial, or still working out what we actually r?

I addressed this in the original post. Seeing as how most CDers identify as feeling both masculine AND feminine, it is easy to see how either sex can appear attractive. BUT when someone is gay or bi you are ALWAYS attracted to the same sex, NOT just when you or they are dressed.

And yes, it is possible for some to be in denial or working out who they really are. But why admit an attraction at all if you are truly in denial? And if you are working out who you are, then why not just state you are curious? Why the question of being gay or not? Why sound insulted by the suggestion?

This post isn't about those that truly are gay, bi or curious. Its about those that feel the need to adamantly deny being gay and thus over-professing their heterosexuality as if being considered gay is such a horrid thing.

So I just posted in an effort to help those that question it constantly and give them a bit of ease of mind.

[Stargirl]

I wonder how many straight men/women have caught themselves staring at another guy/girl, and felt something ? Would they consciously admit to themselves "Oh my. I just felt something for that guy/girl" or would the "rapid response thought police" come in, and erace the moment ? I know what it's like to look at people of any sex, and feel something. And some of them weren't classically attractive. But something attracted me. Animal magnetism ? Intellect ? I hate to over analyse, but it's good to ask myself questions, and find that I am not the only one who ponders such things. And so far, no "penalty police" either, carting me off to the dreaded "original thought jail".

[Nicki B]

This post isn't about those that truly are gay, bi or curious. Its about those that feel the need to adamantly deny being gay and thus over-professing their heterosexuality as if being considered gay is such a horrid thing.

So I just posted in an effort to help those that question it constantly and give them a bit of ease of mind.

DD, I applaud your intention...


Unfortunately until there is some good re-education of the general public this question will always come up. In their eyes CD = GAY. And even those with no attraction to men buy into this crap. We are already dealing with the stigma of being CD and the thought we might also be gay, becomes a bit much.

Unfortunately that attitude seems pretty common? :rolleyes:

[secretlypsycho]

First, you are only gay if you are sexually, emotionally, etc, attracted to the same sex all the time. Not when they dress a certain way. All. The. Time!

Yup, fair enough, sounds pretty reasonable.

BUT, where I come unstuck with it is this - imo, you are not 'straight' if you are a MTF CDer who is sexually attracted to men while dressed. Changing your clothes and putting on some makeup doesn't change who you are or absolve responsibility for your actions - it's still you. And if you are attracted to men, want to or do have sex with other men when CDing, then you are not heterosexual.

Don't get me wrong, I have no issue whatsoever with other people's sexuality, and I really don't care whether anyone here is gay/straight/lesbian/bisexual or something else altogether (well, except my husband, lol :heehee:). I don't care whether you feel the need to label your sexuality or just "be". But it annoys the crap outta me to read posts along the lines of what I've mentioned above. CDing does not absolve personal responsibility, and you are still responsible for your actions regardless of what you're wearing.

:2c:

[Pandora]

The question does seem like one for the ages, and through confronting my own reality recently I feel less confused than ever. I mentioned a fw times in posts that I was straight hetero and I would like to point out that was not meant in any way shape or form to be a putdown towards Gay/Bi people. I have a strict live and let live attitude and don't feel the need to dole out hate anywhere. Being new to the forum I just thought it was typical to state where your preferences lie, but if that's not the case then I must apoligize if I've offended anyone. I really have a hope for the future that all people will be able to get along better.

Interesting note. A few months ago I saw a documentary about the history of sex (can't remember where) and it mentioned somethng about the labeling of sexual preference as somewhat of a new phenomenon dating to the early 20th cent. Before then people weren't labeled as this or that, just the sexual acts themselves. (pretty sure about that, it's been awhile since I saw it so don't quote me.) I'm not saying I agree or disagree but it's interesting how human thinking is dependant on what we are taught by society.

Love for all! :hugs:

[Pink Person]

I am not gay, unless you count being in love with myself. Then I am totally gay (for me).

Sometimes, I like to tell people that I am 20% gay. I used to be 10% gay, but I'm twice as queer as I used to be.

Seriously, I have some sexual experience with both men and women and am open to being seduced by either but my preferred partners are female.

I guess this makes me primarily heterosexual, but I'm not a flag waving straight person.

Demonic Daughter, I love your posts and am playing with you a bit with my response. I hope you don't mind.

Pink

[Rachel Morley]

Second, everyone likes to feel beautiful/handsome. Being flirted with by someone of the same sex while you are dressed makes you feel beautiful/handsome. This does not mean you are gay or bi! It means you enjoy looking good and receiving a compliment!

Hi DD,

I know what you mean. Just relax and quit being worried about what people might be thinking about you. Have confidence in what you know for yourself to be true.

There are two people at our Sacramento TG group who, when attending events in drab, often greet me with a close hug and a kiss on the cheek. Sometimes at gay bars I also get other CDers touch my thigh and be very friendly toward me. Do I worry or panic that "some thing's going on"? ... no ... I just smile relax and as you say "enjoy feeling good and receiving a compliment" :) If it ever goes too far, I just remind them that I'm married and 100% monogamous. :tongueout

[kerrianna]

And if you are attracted to men, want to or do have sex with other men when CDing, then you are not heterosexual.



...unless you identify as female and consider yourself a hetero female.

But, yeah, in the case you mentioned you are at least bi-curious. I would imagine lots of CDers are at least curious or open minded once they've come to peace with what they do, because it is a form of crossing gender lines and that can open up your perceptions quite a bit.


DD, I really liked the way you worded your OP. :hugs:


And Lex, if you would QUIT being so handsome and dashing and courageous and sexy, maybe us girls would quit hitting on you. Like you said, comes with the territory... of being a hunky pirate captain! purrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. :daydreaming:

[docrobbysherry]

I wonder how many straight men/women have caught themselves staring at another guy/girl, and felt something ? Would they consciously admit to themselves "Oh my. I just felt something for that guy/girl" or would the "rapid response thought police" come in, and erace the moment ? I know what it's like to look at people of any sex, and feel something. And some of them weren't classically attractive. But something attracted me.

I thot I was straight, until this was pointed out to me:

1. I'm sexually nuts about Sherry, who is really a man, me.
2. I've seen pics of some very convincing and sexy CDs, and I was attracted to them.

The fact that any man's unit, including mine, is a deal killer for me, doesn't change my initial attraction. Just as SG pointed out in her post. So, I mess around with Sherry, maybe I would with another certain CD. I just wouldn't go near 3rd base! So what does that make me?

Semi-hetero? Upper half of their bodies-gay? A designated hitter who brings in a pinch runner to go to 3rd? Who knows, I don't!

Who brot this up in the first place? Oh, yeah, DD. THank u!

[JoAnnDallas]

I am sure that some of the customers in my nail salon have taken one look at me and thought, "Gay Guy". IMHO, it is a natural conclusion when you look at how a lot of us was brought up. Any male that would walk into a nail salon, wearing a Pink t-shirt, White shorts, open toe sandels, get a pedicure, have his toe nails polished Bright Red, then get a manicure and have pale Pink polish put on his nails, and then get his eyebrows waxed, HAS to be GAY. It is a gut reaction.
I once had a customer sitting in the chair next to me comment that she thought it was great that a Gay male would take care of his feet and hands. I chuckled and told her I was not Gay, I was a TransGendered. All of a sudden her entire attitude toward me changed. It was like I was a long lost Girlfriend she had not seen in a long time.

[Megan (VA)]

I might as well wade in too. I am bisexual - regardless of what gender I am presenting myself as I am attracted to both men and women, depending of course on the men and women.

Personally, I prefer men physically. In other words if you put me at a beach I am more likely to have my head turned by an attractive guy than by an attractive woman. But, I am more easily able to form emotional bonds, which can sometimes lead to sex, with women.

Why do people wonder if CDs are gay? I see it this way. The majority of GGs in the world are interested exclusively in men. CDs are emulating GGs so people either assume or else wonder whether that extends into their sexual tastes as well. Assuming it, I feel, shows ignorance of the spectrum of human sexuality but I also feel that wondering about it seems reasonable. Given my unique perspective I wonder about the sexual orientation of anyone I find attractive. Don't we all do that?

[SarahHall]

I am so glad that I have become comfortable with my crossdressing and having discovered that I enjoy sex with men I am now very comfortable with being gay or bi sexual I guess is a better description for myself.

[jessielee]

i'm a lesbian!!
so glad there's nothing wrong with me!
back to work,
weeeeeeee!
(it riles them to believe that we perceive the web they weave...)
giggles,
jessie

[DemonicDaughter]

I am not gay, unless you count being in love with myself. Then I am totally gay (for me).

Sometimes, I like to tell people that I am 20% gay. I used to be 10% gay, but I'm twice as queer as I used to be.

Seriously, I have some sexual experience with both men and women and am open to being seduced by either but my preferred partners are female.

I guess this makes me primarily heterosexual, but I'm not a flag waving straight person.

Demonic Daughter, I love your posts and am playing with you a bit with my response. I hope you don't mind.

Pink

And I love when you do. :D


Hi DD,

I know what you mean. Just relax and quit being worried about what people might be thinking about you. Have confidence in what you know for yourself to be true.

There are two people at our Sacramento TG group who, when attending events in drab, often greet me with a close hug and a kiss on the cheek. Sometimes at gay bars I also get other CDers touch my thigh and be very friendly toward me. Do I worry or panic that "some thing's going on"? ... no ... I just smile relax and as you say "enjoy feeling good and receiving a compliment" :) If it ever goes too far, I just remind them that I'm married and 100% monogamous. :tongueout


...unless you identify as female and consider yourself a hetero female.

But, yeah, in the case you mentioned you are at least bi-curious. I would imagine lots of CDers are at least curious or open minded once they've come to peace with what they do, because it is a form of crossing gender lines and that can open up your perceptions quite a bit.


DD, I really liked the way you worded your OP. :hugs:


And Lex, if you would QUIT being so handsome and dashing and courageous and sexy, maybe us girls would quit hitting on you. Like you said, comes with the territory... of being a hunky pirate captain! purrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. :daydreaming:

Thank you both. Its not my intention to have a "one size fits all" sort of answer but its interesting to see so many over-emphasizing their sexuality. Its okay to be curious. Its okay to question the sexuality. Its okay to want to find out for yourself.

What's not okay is to act like its the worst thing in the world if someone thinks you are gay.


I thot I was straight, until this was pointed out to me:

1. I'm sexually nuts about Sherry, who is really a man, me.
2. I've seen pics of some very convincing and sexy CDs, and I was attracted to them.

The fact that any man's unit, including mine, is a deal killer for me, doesn't change my initial attraction. Just as SG pointed out in her post. So, I mess around with Sherry, maybe I would with another certain CD. I just wouldn't go near 3rd base! So what does that make me?

Semi-hetero? Upper half of their bodies-gay? A designated hitter who brings in a pinch runner to go to 3rd? Who knows, I don't!

Who brot this up in the first place? Oh, yeah, DD. THank u!

LOL! I would definitely put you in the curious to "I wanna play" category! :) And there is nothing wrong with it. As I said, I believe in exploring one's feelings, thoughts and emotions. And I love that you can admit what you find attractive. That really is the key to understanding your own sexuality. But the endless threads debating how to respond, if CDers are, so on and so forth where the implication that being gay is a "bad" thing just proves that many don't realize who they are characterizing being gay just as many characterize being CD.

[CaptLex]

And Lex, if you would QUIT being so handsome and dashing and courageous and sexy, maybe us girls would quit hitting on you. Like you said, comes with the territory... of being a hunky pirate captain! purrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. :daydreaming:
Sweet talker! :love: :kiss:

[Alicia_lynn419]

i used to worry a lot when I was younger if being a CD made me gay. Now I know it doesn't. If anything I like to think of myself as "hetroflexible"

[loki_uk]

I think some people get the wrong end of the stick, like most CD'ers I'm about as straight as they come but it just gets a bit more cloudy when gender comes into it....am I bi gendered hmm possibly

[Nicki B]

I mentioned a fw times in posts that I was straight hetero and I would like to point out that was not meant in any way shape or form to be a putdown towards Gay/Bi people.

Pandora, consider how you might feel if other people kept saying 'but of course, I'm NOT a CDer' - particularly when some of them juxtapose it with something else that was a big deal - wouldn't you wonder just why they harped on about it?

Particularly if no one had first asked? Doesn't it sorta speak most of their worries and fears... Why should being gay or bi be worrying, or fearsome? :strugglin

It's the reactions some exhibit to that possibility which appear so to me.

[deja true]

"If anything I like to think of myself as "hetroflexible""

Alicia! This is great! Hope you didn't copyright it, 'cos I'm gonna borrow and spread it around..

This needs to go the "Urban Dictionary", too.

respect & love (for expanding the language),

deja

[angelfire]

I'd have to probably identify myself as curious. Never done anything with a guy, but the more I allow myself to think about it, the less I am opposed to trying it.

[DemonicDaughter]

Pandora, consider how you might feel if other people kept saying 'but of course, I'm NOT a CDer' - particularly when some of them juxtapose it with something else that was a big deal - wouldn't you wonder just why they harped on about it?

Particularly if no one had first asked? Doesn't it sorta speak most of their worries and fears... Why should being gay or bi be worrying, or fearsome? :strugglin

It's the reactions some exhibit to that possibility which appear so to me.

And that is exactly my point! Well put hun!

I love how some responded to this post with HAVING to include they were straight or heterosexual (or in two cases, hetroflexible, lol). This statement implies that they feel the need to make sure NO ONE mistakes them for being gay.

Though you may not say it directly, this is like saying, "hey, my wife wears a dress like that, but I sure as hell would never wear women's clothing!" How does that make you feel? Like the person saying such a statement thinks wearing women's clothing somehow would make him less of a person? That's exactly how it feels when people, who were never asked for their sexual orientation, feel the need to profess it before or directly after making a statement anyone might even remotely associate with being gay or bi.

[Pandora]

Pandora, consider how you might feel if other people kept saying 'but of course, I'm NOT a CDer' - particularly when some of them juxtapose it with something else that was a big deal - wouldn't you wonder just why they harped on about it?

Particularly if no one had first asked? Doesn't it sorta speak most of their worries and fears... Why should being gay or bi be worrying, or fearsome? :strugglin

It's the reactions some exhibit to that possibility which appear so to me.


I agree Nicki, That's why I wrote what I wrote. I'm pretty new to the forums and didn't really know what to expect here and really just thought it was something talked about freely but looking back though maybe I sounded touchy about it or something. Like I should throw in the Seinfeld "not that there's anything wrong with it" .

In my much younger years a long time ago I actually did look down on gay people a bit, even while secretly dressing. But as time wore on and I opened up more and actually got to know some gay people personally I realized what great human beings they are and how there really isn't anything wrong with being who you are. Sometimes that's not so easy to figure out when society sets up certain "norms" that are to be accepted. Especially hard when you're young and want to fit in. With age comes wisdom right?

:hugs:

[Nicki B]

With age comes wisdom right?

If only age came with something... :rolleyes:

Pandora, please DON'T take my comments personally - at least you were brave enough to say what you thought - and to apologise?

I was really trying to use your words to get to others? :hugs:

xx

[Pandora]

If only age came with something... :rolleyes:

Pandora, please DON'T take my comments personally - at least you were brave enough to say what you thought - and to apologise?

I was really trying to use your words to get to others? :hugs:

xx

Nicki,
No worries whatsoever honey. I'm grateful for all the candid comments on these forums. The one thing I really want to take away from all this is to learn and grow as a person. And I can only do that by listening to you and so many others like you in here that have so many great thoughts to offer. One thing I have learned about accepting who I am is that I couldn't do that until I learned acceptance of all others, regardless of who they were.

Love and kisses! :hugs:
Pandora

[Valeria]

How bout? "Reasonable people do not casually discuss personal sexuality, regardless of their preferences"
That might be nice, but if I had a dollar for everytime someone asked me "so what does your husband do?" or "does your husband help you much with the baby?", or volunteered some detail about their boyfriend or fiancee or husband, I'd be a wealthy woman. Straight people discuss their sexuality all the time. They discuss mine too - they just assume I'm straight. :sad:

[Valeria]

When asked if you are gay (and you aren't), simply look at them and say...

Yes, I'm a lesbian/gay man (for our handsome FTM).

That should shut them up long enough for you to have a chuckle at their expense.
I know that you and Lex have already discussed this, and I know that you mean well, and I agree completely with the spirit of your post.

But FWIW, I'm not certain I'd be pleased with people who don't share my orientation (or possibly even my gender) coopting part of my identity for a "prank" - even when they've been provoked with a question they find tiresome.

[battybattybats]

That might be nice, but if I had a dollar for everytime someone asked me "so what does your husband do?" or "does your husband help you much with the baby?", or volunteered some detail about their boyfriend or fiancee or husband, I'd be a wealthy woman. Straight people discuss their sexuality all the time. They discuss mine too - they just assume I'm straight. :sad:

Public casual discussion of sexuality was an important part of womens liberation. I don't see why it can't be the same for everyone else. Heterosexuality is everywhere. Billboards, product packaging. It's not just magazines and tv it is everywhere. It's so ubiquitous most straight people don't notice. Straight people hold hands in public all the time, kiss in public, lots of things.

The only way anyone else will be seen as equal and normal is if they too are public so much and so often that everyone else just gets used to it. The answer to peoples discomfort with homosexuality, heteronormative assumptions etc is more casual and public discussion of sexuality not less.

[DemonicDaughter]

I know that you and Lex have already discussed this, and I know that you mean well, and I agree completely with the spirit of your post.

But FWIW, I'm not certain I'd be pleased with people who don't share my orientation (or possibly even my gender) coopting part of my identity for a "prank" - even when they've been provoked with a question they find tiresome.

Well, technically, its not a "prank". If society is going to define a man as someone wearing "such and such" and having "masculine" features, then any FTM in here can call themselves a man without batting an eye. And seeing as society wants so desperately to label any masculine female as being gay, then in a sense, its feasible. A "man" finding a male attractive is considered gay. Just as a "girl" finding a woman attractive would be the same thing.

As long as we draw lines in the sand to separate us from other each other, we are going to continue to have to defend our liberties. I'm not insulted if anyone, gay, straight, bi or otherwise, professes to be any sexual orientation, truthful or not. You can claim to be a pink and purple polka dotted, glow in the dark, blow up sheep for all I care.

I am insulted not that someone feels the need to state a sexual preference, but that it is done so to the degree of separating themselves from another group because of stereotypes, fears, labels, stigmas, etc.

What gets me the most is this site is a community of individuals of all walks of life, the entire spectrum of the human race in gender, background, lifestyles, incomes, race, ethnicities, educations, etc... YET to HAVE to ensure that NO ONE mistakes you (collectively) for being gay or bi, in THIS community of accepting, loving, understanding and wonderful group of people is not only unnecessary, but completely irrelevant.

[Sandi jo]

I had to work most of the day then I woke up to this thread,I wish I had been home to discuss this in real time.I really don't care what anyone thinks or says about me.Why would we care if someone thought we were different,just by dressing different by default we are different but we are not all the same so in truth we are all different from each other,am I making any sense?It just upsets me that we have to but labels on everything.Let me wake up and I'll be clearer about this

[deja true]

"...One thing I have learned about accepting who I am is that I couldn't do that until I learned acceptance of all others, regardless of who they were. " - Pandora

This is the most important lesson I ever learned here. And I wish everyone else would learn it, too.

I'll say I'm tired of all this labelling argument, but I guess we have to keep doing it to keep re-inforcing the message.

deja


But I swear to god, I will never,ever consider doing it with a pink and purple dotted, blow-up sheep. Unless they're 100% straight, like me. Sort of....

[DemonicDaughter]

But I swear to god, I will never,ever consider doing it with a pink and purple dotted, blow-up sheep. Unless they're 100% straight, like me. Sort of....

*Puts on a pink and purple dotted, blow-up sheep costume* :D How firm are you on that "100%"? Any leeway? I'm about 50%, is that acceptable?

[deja true]

Okay, that's the hottest dotted sheep I've ever seen. I guess the 100% is negotiable. But ...but...I'm on top, okay?

[DemonicDaughter]

Okay, that's the hottest dotted sheep I've ever seen. I guess the 100% is negotiable. But ...but...I'm on top, okay?

The whole time? Can't I be on top some of the time? PLEASE :battingeyelashes:

[deja true]

Welllll, okay!..I guess everything's negotiable, isn't it?

[DemonicDaughter]

Welllll, okay!..I guess everything's negotiable, isn't it?

And isn't that really a point of this post? LOL!

[Sandi jo]

If its ok I want to be on the bottom sometimes

[DemonicDaughter]

If its ok I want to be on the bottom sometimes

Woo hoo!!!! We're making a CD/DD sammich! :GD:

[Leo Lane]

Thinking about sexuality, and of course lots of other things, in rigid binary ways is just something that humans do. Unless you are unusually reflective, or have had experiences that have made you think, you subscribe more or less to your society's system of thinking about this, that and the other. I'm sure most of us make crude oversimplifying generalisations about other things and people of which we have less personal experience than we do of cross-dressing and transgenderism.

Nowadays, the system works like this: what is feminine is attracted to what is masculine and vice versa. Therefore a guy who does girly things, or a girl who does guy things, must be gay -- it doesn't make sense otherwise! Once upon a time in Greece the system was different: Plato, in The Symposium, writes that like is drawn to like, so men who fancy handsome youths are more masculine than men who fancy young women!

[DemonicDaughter]

Thinking about sexuality, and of course lots of other things, in rigid binary ways is just something that humans do. Unless you are unusually reflective, or have had experiences that have made you think, you subscribe more or less to your society's system of thinking about this, that and the other. I'm sure most of us make crude oversimplifying generalisations about other things and people of which we have less personal experience than we do of cross-dressing and transgenderism.

Nowadays, the system works like this: what is feminine is attracted to what is masculine and vice versa. Therefore a guy who does girly things, or a girl who does guy things, must be gay -- it doesn't make sense otherwise! Once upon a time in Greece the system was different: Plato, in The Symposium, writes that like is drawn to like, so men who fancy handsome youths are more masculine than men who fancy young women!

Very nicely put. Though I agree that almost everyone makes general assumptions regarding sexuality, that isn't really the issue. What is the issue, is that with so many here questioning their sexuality while making statements still professing heterosexuality shows the true conflict most CDers must face at one point or another. Yet so few actually come to grips with the reality of their own statements. They say, "I'm not gay but... I find other CDers in dress attractive! What does this mean?!" It means you found something feminine attractive. End. Of. Story.

It is insulting to have people assume your sexual orientation based on stereotypical assumptions. It is tiring to read a thread that has nothing to do with sexuality and see a post that reads, "I'm straight, yet [fill in the blank]" or "I do/think/say/want/fantasize/wonder/flirt/joke/whatever [fill in the stereotypical "gay" assumption]... am I really gay?" No. You just allow society to dictate your responses to things.

Again, for a community filled with individuals that do not live in a mainstream lifestyle, to have these assumptions and statements made seem just as hypocritical as what anyone outside this lifestyle would say regarding CDers.

We do not need to keep dividing the human race until everyone is in their own little category! Who really gives a rats anything if you are gay or not? You know you are/aren't. You're partner knows you are/aren't. Who after that matters? If someone else came up to you and insisted you were or weren't you would most likely think their opinion doesn't matter anyhow. So why does it here?