Womb Transplants!

[White Neko]

Hey, sorry if this has already been discussed already (and I did search), or if this is the wrong forum....
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=415307&in_page_id=1770&in_page_id=1770&expand=true

And the abovely quoted webpage is refered to in this one
http://womensbioethics.blogspot.com/2006/11/ethics-and-potentials-of-womb.html

Womb transplants! A solution for MtF transexuals to carry children?! What do you bro's+sis's think :D

[Fi Fi Fiona]

Sounds a little dangerous, However, the rate technology is going, we should have this perfected by the end of the millenia :eek: (I wonder how long we have to wait) :cry:

Plus, think of what socieity would say. (a few outcrys would be imminent)

All in all, im friken excited :D :GD:

Just hope that it gets safer :sad:

[Joy Carter]

Sounds good to me. I'm well beyond the child bearing years. But you younger girls need to know, that your talking a Cesarean birth here.

[White Neko]

Sounds a little dangerous, However, the rate technology is going, we should have this perfected by the end of the millenia :eek: (I wonder how long we have to wait) :cry:

Its been done already, apparently - you gotta take some hefty powerful drugs in order to stop your body from rejecting the new organ..

However, I'm sure you'll need to have your own ovaries grown and ready for you.. I remember reading somewhere that males have dormant ovaries inside them, I hope that thats true and then it'll be easy to make them active :D

I hope many transgirls who want biological families with their males can get their wish :D I'm not sure of it myself..

[CaptLex]

I remember reading somewhere that males have dormant ovaries inside them, I hope that thats true and then it'll be easy to make them active :D
:eek:

Sounds like science fiction to me. :dry:

[roni]

Is this for real? Never thought much about having a baby (assuming I could not). Something to consider...

roni

[Cai]

However, I'm sure you'll need to have your own ovaries grown and ready for you.. I remember reading somewhere that males have dormant ovaries inside them, I hope that thats true and then it'll be easy to make them active :D

I'm pretty sure what you're thinking of is the fact that the testes start from the same cellular material as the ovaries. A fetus can develop male or female because the cells are the same. But once the cells develop, that's it - they can't go back.

[MJ]

way to risky for a gg let alone a trans-woman . the hormone risks are bad enough let alone plugging in a womb and then there are anti-rejection drugs . life is difficult enough

[White Neko]

Yea, anything to do with surgery is super-risky and shouldn't be taken lightly - but if any tgirl is thinking on having a biological family (stress on the biological term) then it don't seem so farfetched as you may think. Ask your doctor, he should know a lot more than I ever could :)

[Fi Fi Fiona]

I agree.
At the moment, the complications probably out-weigh the pros (thats my opinion)
Give it a few decades and we may be looking into this :daydreaming:

[Dalece]

Why not they have been transplanting kidneys, eyes , heart and other body parts for years. just could it work on a male to female transgender. It would be graet for the younger girls not an older one like me. Besides I would be in menapuse now:heehee:.

[battybattybats]

Its been done already, apparently - you gotta take some hefty powerful drugs in order to stop your body from rejecting the new organ..

However, I'm sure you'll need to have your own ovaries grown and ready for you.. I remember reading somewhere that males have dormant ovaries inside them, I hope that thats true and then it'll be easy to make them active :D

I hope many transgirls who want biological families with their males can get their wish :D I'm not sure of it myself..

Well there's been face transplants and hand transplants...

As for men with ovaries, there are intersex conditions that will cause that but it's not in most men.

[White Neko]

http://www.activateyourstemcells.com/Intro.asp?IFP=49&FPC=-54&FPV=&ad=24167&DL=134311&

In reference to what I was saying in an earlier post about stem cell research possibly making wombs for MtF transexuals, I have found a nice video that explains how stem cells work which is simple for everyone to understand :)

Note! Don't fall victim to the commercialism element of this vid, stem cells aren't a magical substance that super-enhances your body! They are simply cells that're natural to your body that has to potential to be pretty much every tissue possible to you. And I was merely suggesting that it may be possible to grow your own womb, which won't ever be rejected by your body, using this method..

[CaptLex]

stem cells aren't a magical substance that super-enhances your body! They are simply cells that're natural to your body that has to potential to be pretty much every tissue possible to you.
Does that mean we'd be able to grow our own willy? :raisedeyebrow:

[Cai]

Does that mean we'd be able to grow our own willy? :raisedeyebrow:

Maybe. Right now we don't have the technology to grow anything 3-dimensional, because of getting nutrients to the interior tissues. Skin grafts are as far as scientists have gotten (yes, I know about the human ear on the mouse, but that's different).

Theoretically, it would be possible to use stem cells to grow any human organ. It's just a matter of getting the technology. But non-rejected human organs are one of the holy grails of medicine right now, so I bet we'll see it in the next couple of decades.

[White Neko]

Does that mean we'd be able to grow our own willy? :raisedeyebrow:

Technically, yes. Im don't know what causes stem cells to transform into collections of several tissues which work together to perform a specific function (aka, an organ) but if it is some sort of chemical that the cells of the opposite sex give off, then I wonder if those can be injected and stem cells will collect at that region and build up....

But I dont know why it hasnt been done yet.. perhaps because nobody has ever had the need to pay interest in growing sex organs..

[DianaGomez]

However, I'm sure you'll need to have your own ovaries grown and ready for you.. I remember reading somewhere that males have dormant ovaries inside them, I hope that thats true and then it'll be easy to make them active
Whaaaattttttttttt???? I must have been asleep in those anatomy and physiology classes (and I took enough of them.) Dont think so.
The whole concept seems a little dificult. I would think a full ovary/fallopian tube/womb/vagina/vulva transplant may be just as possible as the womb (highly unlikely IMHO, but lets give it 50 years and see). I would be REAL interested in that now!
Or even much much better, the grow your own option. That would rock.

[Valeria]

Yes, non-intersexed males do NOT have "dormant" ovaries - they have testicles, which are homologous to ovaries (just as the penis is to the clitoris, and several other similar matchings).

I'd say the technology for growing the entire works from stem cells, and getting female primary sex organs from XY stem cells to boot, is still a *long* way from being ready.

Uterus transplant is more likely to be viable in the fairly near future, but if you've read about the plans for these procedures, it's not exactly a great solution.

The basic plan is to transplant a uterus, spend a few months getting the patient "stable", get her pregnant using in vitro fertilization and embryo implantation, and hope for the best. Then, as soon as the baby is ready to come out, do a combination c-section and removal of the transplanted uterus. It'd be too risky to leave the uterus in their long-term, with the patient's immune system severely compromised to prevent tissue rejection, so out it must come.

So 2 major invasive abdomen surgeries, lots of drugs, huge risks of infection, substantial risks to the baby, nasty recovery for the birth mom. Plus the extra difficulty of trying to externally control the endocrine system for a trans female (since she still wouldn't have working ovaries in this scenario). Almost certainly, there would be greater than normal risks for congenital defects.

Plus, insurance almost certainly wouldn't cover it for most people. Medical insurance does not normally cover most fertility treatments - if they won't pay for intrauterine insemination, you think they are going to cover this? Plus insurance companies hate "experimental" treatments - and I don't see this being non-experimental for trans female patients anytime soon. I also think this entire sequence of procedures and treatments would be ungodly expensive, so it'd help to be independently wealthy going into this.

So, umm, yeah...

[BTW, one of the first trans women to have a surgically-constructed vagina later died as a consequence of surgery to give her a womb. That was about 70 years ago, so trans females have been waiting a long time for surgeons to be able to perform this surgery...]

[White Neko]

Yes, non-intersexed males do NOT have "dormant" ovaries - they have testicles, which are homologous to ovaries (just as the penis is to the clitoris, and several other similar matchings).

I'd say the technology for growing the entire works from stem cells, and getting female primary sex organs from XY stem cells to boot, is still a *long* way from being ready.

Uterus transplant is more likely to be viable in the fairly near future, but if you've read about the plans for these procedures, it's not exactly a great solution.

The basic plan is to transplant a uterus, spend a few months getting the patient "stable", get her pregnant using in vitro fertilization and embryo implantation, and hope for the best. Then, as soon as the baby is ready to come out, do a combination c-section and removal of the transplanted uterus. It'd be too risky to leave the uterus in their long-term, with the patient's immune system severely compromised to prevent tissue rejection, so out it must come.

So 2 major invasive abdomen surgeries, lots of drugs, huge risks of infection, substantial risks to the baby, nasty recovery for the birth mom. Plus the extra difficulty of trying to externally control the endocrine system for a trans female (since she still wouldn't have working ovaries in this scenario). Almost certainly, there would be greater than normal risks for congenital defects.

Plus, insurance almost certainly wouldn't cover it for most people. Medical insurance does not normally cover most fertility treatments - if they won't pay for intrauterine insemination, you think they are going to cover this? Plus insurance companies hate "experimental" treatments - and I don't see this being non-experimental for trans female patients anytime soon. I also think this entire sequence of procedures and treatments would be ungodly expensive, so it'd help to be independently wealthy going into this.

So, umm, yeah...

[BTW, one of the first trans women to have a surgically-constructed vagina later died as a consequence of surgery to give her a womb. That was about 70 years ago, so trans females have been waiting a long time for surgeons to be able to perform this surgery...]

1 - I'm getting the impression from these most recent posts that people are cinsidering me as an idiot, when I'm merely speculating and putting forward ideas of discussion. You know, its how anything constructive is done, if you don't ever discuss anything in a structured manner like this, you're going to be dreaming the result for the rest of your life. I want real results, as I am sure that there are many timid tgirls who dream about it. Don't be one of those people who steps on peoples dreams and making them hate their bodies even more :'(

2 - I don't see the point in needing ovaries anymore, since us tgirls would be taking hornome suppliments anyways (which is due to the sole fact that males do not have active ovaries, as it is). Perhaps tgirls are at the advantage really, since they wouldnt be subject to menstrual cycles which are induced by periodic influx and outflux of particular hormones (possibly progesterone, I've heard that that was the thing that caused women problems on a monthly basis).

3 - I am quite confident in stem cell research, however, I have no idea how to make stem cells grow into female sex organs in male bodies, but as far as I'm aware, the body considers itself as actively one sex and dormantly the other, there should be room for possibility. I'm no expert at this! So if anyone is an expert in the human body, then please do enlighten me with your input (without getting too worked up about my apparent "blasphemous" ideas :))

4 - We have the NHS here

5 - Thats because that was 70 years ago, lol....

[sparks]

Is This Serious. Why are we even talking about this. Beside the Arnold Movie this really is kinda funny in sad way.

[Valeria]

I don't see the point in needing ovaries anymore, since us tgirls would be taking hornome suppliments anyways (which is due to the sole fact that males do not have active ovaries, as it is). Perhaps tgirls are at the advantage really, since they wouldnt be subject to menstrual cycles which are induced by periodic influx and outflux of particular hormones (possibly progesterone, I've heard that that was the thing that caused women problems on a monthly basis).
Part of the point of the menstrual cycle is to prepare the endometrium for potential implantation of a fertilized egg. It would be essential to duplicate this aspect of the menstrual cycle in any woman attempting to become pregnant, whether she has functional ovaries or not. This is obviously easier to do if she has working ovaries.

As for the function of ovaries in pregnancy, after the Graafian follicle releases the oocyte it is converted into the corpus luteum, which releases progesterone (and, to a lesser extent, estrogens and androgens) to maintain the endometrial layer while awaiting implantation. If implantation occurs, this structure remains active until the placenta takes over progesterone production. Obviously, this function could be maintained externally, but several hormone levels would have to be monitored very carefully to maintain hormones within the narrow ideal ranges.

BTW, the menstrual cycle is controlled by a complicated hormonal dance, involving estrogen, progesterone, follicle-stimulating hormone, and luteinizing hormone (and indirectly influenced by inhibin A, inhibin B, gonadotropin-releasing hormone, activin, and probably some other substances I'm forgetting). Prostaglandins and human chorionic gonadotropin also play a role. The actual shedding of the endrometrial layer is largely triggered by a reduction of progesterone (and the actual thickening is largely triggered by estrogen) - that may be what you are thinking of.

In a body without ovaries, it would probably be possible to ignore FSH and LH levels (and most of the signaling hormones) and just concentrate on estrogen and progesterone. You just have to be careful with these levels, since too high or too low can lead to abortion or birth defects.


We have the NHS here
Do they make a habit of funding extremely expensive and dangerous experimental elective surgeries?

[battybattybats]

Maybe. Right now we don't have the technology to grow anything 3-dimensional, because of getting nutrients to the interior tissues. Skin grafts are as far as scientists have gotten (yes, I know about the human ear on the mouse, but that's different).

Theoretically, it would be possible to use stem cells to grow any human organ. It's just a matter of getting the technology. But non-rejected human organs are one of the holy grails of medicine right now, so I bet we'll see it in the next couple of decades.

I thought they'd had serious successes with 3d tissue printing (With a modified inkjet printer no less!). From what I heard creating 3d structures that way was getting more and more feasible. Last I heard the problem was in getting the cells aligned properly. Eg for a heart the muscle cells didn't have the most efficient pattern of cells so the resultant tissue was weaker than a normal heart.

Biological breast implants certainly and grown penises perhaps too may be very close indeed. Making a womb on the other hand would be much more difficult because it's part of a series of systems with substantial interactions. Functional testes would be simpler yet still extremely challenging. But biological breast implants, penises etc should all be much more feasible in the forseeable future from what I've heard.

[Cai]

I thought they'd had serious successes with 3d tissue printing (With a modified inkjet printer no less!). From what I heard creating 3d structures that way was getting more and more feasible. Last I heard the problem was in getting the cells aligned properly. Eg for a heart the muscle cells didn't have the most efficient pattern of cells so the resultant tissue was weaker than a normal heart.

Biological breast implants certainly and grown penises perhaps too may be very close indeed. Making a womb on the other hand would be much more difficult because it's part of a series of systems with substantial interactions. Functional testes would be simpler yet still extremely challenging. But biological breast implants, penises etc should all be much more feasible in the forseeable future from what I've heard.

The major issue in three dimensions is blood and nutrient flow to the interior tissues. Scientists haven't quite figured out how to make it work.

I think you're right, though - breasts implants are probably very close (being just fat, glands, and skin - artificial ones would probably lack glands at first) and penii not far behind (functional to the point of intercourse but possibly not to bladder connection and definitely not to insemination). Wombs and other functional organs are way, way further off.

[Valeria]

Is This Serious. Why are we even talking about this. Beside the Arnold Movie this really is kinda funny in sad way.
I think it's unrealistic for any trans woman already of childbearing age to be too optimistic about medical technology advancing to the point where she'll personally be able to bear children.

But I don't find anything sad or funny about the topic. Lot of women want to have children - that includes trans females. This seems like a perfectly natural desire to me, and it will eventually be feasible (just maybe not in my lifetime). What do you think is funny about this?

[jex111]

I agree surgery is risky enough let alone the extra drugs needed

[Melanie85]

Does that mean we'd be able to grow our own willy? :raisedeyebrow:

You know, I'm surprised no one has yet been able to make a cybernetic willy attachment with sensors with electrodes attached to your fun bits.

[Niya W]

Great, next time some says my penis has a mind of its own, they will really mean it.

[surabhi singh]

I hope after reading this ,I don't have dream ,

" Hey mom I want a hug from yaa " :)

[christinac]

There was something in the paper about that here in Jacksonville Fl a few weeks ago, but I honestly didn't pay it a whole a lot of attention because there are so many children here in the USA that have no mother or father or family at all. We are talking thousands of children. The big problem is government idiotacracy that is labled bureaucracy.
I'm nearly forty years old and almost too old to considure carrying if it was possible, but it may be something for a younger person to considure durring the transformation.