Passing Vs. Acceptance

[victoriamwilliams1]

I have seen a few threads on passing and it got me thinking. Are we looking to pass as women? or are we seeking acceptance? or could it be both?

My Story

I am very tall towering in at close to 7ft in heels! I now shop about 60% of the time for my clothing and other items en fem. One outing in particular that got me thinking about this was on Sunday, I had planned on going out during the after noon so I polished my toes and clear coated my hands so I could add color later. What I did not plan on was my wife wanting to hang out with me (not known to her, and she saw the sex change program on Discovery health and was glad I had no gender ID problems:eek:!)

Well I did what every blue blooded American cross dressing man does who wife does not know, I put on my socks and kept them on all day in fact until the next afternoon when the house was clear!

End of the side bar:

While out on Sunday evening I had to do some shopping for a top to go with 3 of my new skirts so breaking my rule of no late nights out I did one starting at 10:30 pm, My first stop was in Ann Arbor, Michigan at Meijers to see if they had and good tops and I had no real reaction while out and this built this girl up! So I ended up buying some more pantyhose and a diet soda. Next store was K-Mart 24 hours in Southgate, Michigan; no top found however I did need some make up remover so I asked the sale associate on the floor in my best trying to be fem voice where they where located at, she directed me to the location.

At the location would someone tell me why the SA at that location triggered the alarm!:eek: I held my cool as another woman was in the makeup department with me and again no major reactions. The SA who directed me said "A Lady was looking for makeup remover" This was the second time in my last two outings I was refered too and accepted as a woman. I waited for the cashier to cash me out when to my car stopped for gas and was going to get another drink for work in the morning at one gas station but changed my mind because a hip hop brotha pulled up and he may have either been nice, been rude, or ask for my number!

Thats why this has gotten me wondering about what are we really looking for I know for me I am looking for acceptance more than passing.

What I had on shopping

http://photos1.hi5.com/0025/624/870/I0qxG.624870-02.jpg

[PatriciaT]

I have seen a few threads on passing and it got me thinking. Are we looking to pass as women? or are we seeking acceptance? or could it be both?

Hi Victoria

This topic has come up before and will appear again. Every CD wil have to answer it based on her physical makeup. Given your size, you may well have difficulty passing at times, athough your pictures show that at a glance you could well pass as female at times too.
As I have mentioned in previous postings, we should have passing as our ultimate goal even though this is at best attainable only on occasion. For example, we might go to a store and pass the first time with the sales clerk but how about the third or fourth time? If we do our best to aim at passing we will automatically look our best. If we set a lesser goal, we might not look as good and could look a bit comical. That is to be avoided at all costs.
This is the key element. If we are dressed well, even people who read us are likely to be impressed and accept us as a CD. I know longer worry about passing but am very much concerned about acceptance, the achievable goal for the vast majority of us. Even when we think we have passed on a certain occasion, how can we be really sure what the other person is thinking, what's in his heart? He may well be pretending. With acceptance it's a little easier to know. A kind glance or smile, or an admiring look is a good indication of acceptance. This is especially true of GGs who are more likely to accept us.
Back to your photographs. You look good, and the impression you give is very feminine and better than that of a lot of GGs in their androgynous jeans and slacks. Acceptance should be no problem.
To answer your question in a very general sense, we should be looking to pass but seeking acceptance, at the very least.

All the very best. :2c:

Patricia

[Julogden]

Hi Victoria,

Good for you dear, I'm 6'5" in my bare feet, and over the years have put on too much weight, couldn't pass if my life depended on it. I've almost never had the nerve to go out in the general public, so I'm impressed by your determination and courage, I know how difficult it is to step out.

I'd be happy for acceptance, and actually would prefer that at this point. If we pass, people aren't going to get used to the idea of us being among them. In order for the non-TG public to realize that we're just people too, we need to let them know we're here and let them see that we're just going about our business, same as them.:2c:

Carol:hugs:

[PatriciaT]

I'd be happy for acceptance, and actually would prefer that at this point. If we pass, people aren't going to get used to the idea of us being among them. In order for the non-TG public to realize that we're just people too, we need to let them know we're here and let them see that we're just going about our business, same as them.:2c:

Hi Carol,

You said it! This is a favorite topic with me. We have to get them used to the idea thatb we are normal people going about nornal business, just as they are. Passing of course will not let us do this which is why I place such great importance on acceptance.

All the best,

Patricia :straightface:

[vivianann]

I agree I want acceptance also, and it is a great feeling when peaple are very accepting. You look lovely in that outfit.

[Glenda]

Passing is what we do when we visit a store, restaurant, club, etc., want to remain anonomous and not be recognized as a man dressed as a girl. Some of us can be very good at applying make-up and presenting as female and may or may not be recognized as male. Acceptance is what we get when we visit friends or frequent an establishment we normally attend in male mode and are accepted for the person we are even when en femme. Our friends know we're not women but can accept us. That doesn't mean we will always be recognized immediately for who we are. I've had friends not recognize me even when I'm sitting at a table next to theirs for a couple of hours. Priceless.

[Amy Hepker]

It is all up to the you as to what you are wanting to do or what makes you feel right in this world. For some it is not passing, but to be a female as much as we can. for others it could be acceptance. For others it is to satisfy a need to dress whether or not we are accepted. For smoe it is sexual and for some it is natural.

[Dalece]

Hi Victoria For me it is a little bit of both passing and being accepted for who I am. That is a great out fit.:thumbsup:

[yms]

Thanks, Victoria, for an interesting post. And thanks for being out there. You are making the world a little more tolerant for the rest of us.

I guess I'm one of those people who is skeptical when a CDer claims that no one knew she was a man. It's possible, I suppose, but in my mind not very likely.

I'm the opposite of you. I'm five-foot-five and I weight 125lbs on a bad day. And while I may not get a lot of stares when I'm in Macy's, I do get a few. And when I start interacting with people - well, I'm not fooling anyone.


I think it makes sense to equate the words "passing" and "acceptance." I get a lot of acceptance. But then there's the question of whether I am being accepted as a woman or as a crossdresser. If someone mistakes me for a woman, that's not the same as acceptance.

I feel it would be unfair to ask people to accept me as woman for two or three evenings a week. I think that would be insulting to women, and I have heard women complain about this. Being a woman isn't something you put on and take off. It's something you spend your whole life doing. I think transsexuals go up against this when they get hit with the "born woman" requirement. To me, when someone decides to live the rest of their life as a woman, then the question of being accepted as a woman becomes important.


I've often wondered if the need to feel we are passing (fooling) comes from a lack of self-acceptance.

[Vicky_Scot]

IMO if it was a basic choice between passing or acceptance, then I would have to choose acceptance then that would include everyone.

Where if passing was the choice that would only include a minority.

Xx Vicky xX

[melissacd]

I feel that if we can get comfortable with presenting ourselves in the best and most confident light possible (and so long as we are not harassed by anyone) then being accepted as a part of the landscape is a wonderful achievement.

I for one do not believe that I am a woman inside nor do I profess that I will ever know what it is to be a woman, so while being mistaken for a woman would be a great ego boost I can live with being accepted as who I am, a male to female cross dresser.

[Carly D.]

I think it is acceptance for me at over ninety-five percent to around five for passing..

[Kate-May]

Oh, I wish that all societies could just accept all people for who they were.

In our case we are judged by some misguided souls by the clothes we wear and not for who we are. I have absolutely no chance whatsoever of passing and I don't have the courage to tell anyone about my crossdressing, so, therefore ,I can never be accepted.
I am full of admiration for those sisters who have the courage of their convictions and are open about their prefered dress style.

[MJ]

my wife wanting to hang out with me (not known to her, and she saw the sex change program on Discovery health and was glad I had no gender ID problems:eek:!)

Well I did what every blue blooded American cross dressing man does who wife does not know, I put on my socks and kept them on all day in fact until the next afternoon when the house was clear!

AND you had the prefect chance to set the Record striate ...but you put your socks on :brolleyes:

[victoriamwilliams1]

AND you had the prefect chance to set the Record striate ...but you put your socks on :brolleyes:

Yeah, I know. I have set the record straight about that issue before with her and I lost then! so I did not bring it up this time when the show came on.

[Maria2004]

Yay! My Fav topic once again :battingeyelashes: Passing or Acceptance? I'm not looking for either, just grooving on this incredible joy in being able to be myself. When out dressed I get mamed and sired, whatever, even the people calling me sir aren't trying to be disrespectful just calling it the way they see it and I respect that. Sometimes I go out in DRAB with my dressed up sisters, last time they asked me what name they should call me, Maria or my male name? I said sure you can call me Maria you can call me Fred, doesn't matter to me, it's part of my identity now.

If passing matters to you then I accept that, you look great in your pics.:love:

[Butterfly Bill]

I absolutely disagree with what Patricia T has said.

I am unashamedly a man when I am out and about in feminine attire, and I pick out stuff that looks good on my male figure. Most people don't think I look comical, on the contrary I sometimes get compliments on how good items look om me. I seek and in many places succeed in getting acceptance, one that is not based on continuing to maintain an illusion.

People who want to pass want to perpetuate the very rigid sex roles that oppress us all.

[Bridget Fitzgerald]

Acceptance would suffice

[Nicki B]

Well first, we've got to agree what we mean by passing - because some of us define it very differently? To me 'passing' means being believed to be a natal female.


I'm sorry Patricia, but I disagree with you, too...


Every CD wil have to answer it based on her physical makeup.

No - they first have to ask themselves do they want to be accepted as a trans-person, or do they want to 'hide'?


As I have mentioned in previous postings, we should have passing as our ultimate goal even though this is at best attainable only on occasion.

I really couldn't disagree more?

Our ultimate goal ought to be that society should accept everyone for who they are, regardless of how well they fit into stereotypes - and we won't convince anyone else until we can accept each other, first?

[Sonia Kiss]

Hello Victoria,

You know I'm a fan of yours and I think you're beautiful. Staying on topic though, I also like this issue of passing and accecptance. The questions you asked here are good ones:


I have seen a few threads on passing and it got me thinking. Are we looking to pass as women? or are we seeking acceptance? or could it be both?

...

The answers are different for each of us. It's good for each of us to think about this stuff and answer for ourselves, and we learn so much by listening to each other's answers.

For me, yes, both. But only with lots of explanation.

Pass as a female since birth even in extended conversation with strangers? I've pulled this off a few times and sure, it's flattering, thrilling, good for the ego. It does feel a bit like deception. It does come with a little nervousness about being suddenly read or discovered. It does nothing to further acceptance. So, it's never actually a goal of mine. What I want for my appearance though, when I want to make myself look "good", happens to be rather consistent with what many females since birth want for themselves. Shock and surprise, huh?

Acceptance now, acceptance as a first-class person and member of society in cases where people either know or observe that I am gender variant? Yes, of course I want to be accepted. And in contrast to passing, this is a goal that I persue for myself. I do this in a number of ways. First of all, I go out in public "being myself" and hold my head up and expect acceptance as the standard of good behavior by people I meet, even though "being myself" often doesn't include using all the tricks I know to make myself as passable as I can. Secondly, I recognize that I have the power to shape society. This happens in some tiny way every time I interact with someone who knows I am gender variant. It happens when people read my online journal. It happens when I participate in trans politics.

If I can philosophize here though, I can merge these concepts of passing and acceptance. I have recently found in myself that I can self-identify as a woman. I accept this. I accept myself as a woman. To do this I had to look inside myself and be critical. Do I recognize what I see as a woman? I found the answer was yes. That is, looking inside, I pass for myself as a woman. My ideal now, is that others see this in me. When they talk to me, get to know me on any level beyond my appearance, I want them to spontaneously recognize me as a woman. I want to pass for them as woman inside. I want them to accept this.

Bleh. Ok, on proof reading this before pressing send? Let me pull my little TS nose out of the clouds and confess my personal style. My favorite style is blending. I love it when I can dash out the door with minimal fuss and primping and still walk down the street and not get too many double takes and stares. Yep, my body and face and willingness to conform to gender stereotypes allow me do this most of the time. Your milage may vary. I don't pass well at all. I'm pretty sure that almost all people who give me a more than a second's glance detect that I am not female since birth. I'm ok with that. I feel accepted...enough.

[Deborah Jane]

Being able to pass would be nice.
Being accepted as myself with no problems would be even better.
I won,t ever be a woman, but i,ll always be a crossdresser!!

[victoriamwilliams1]

I love how the response for this turned out. I think the key is to just be yourself and not conform to the norms that people believe.