The Media

[karla2016]

Why that is the Media takes more seriously the FTM colleagues when they interview
Them than us MTF? When someone sees a FTM persona they see him as a medical condition.
When they see us they see us as freaks.

[Kieron Andrew]

I dont think that is strictly true, ive seen some VERY good MtF media programs.....there are certainly more programs centred round MtFs than FtMs thats for sure

[Fi Fi Fiona]

I think she means Media in general (Newpapers etc). Really, i could never hope to understand what goes in the heads of others. Thats the kicker of being individuals. Everyone has their opinon. It just so happenes that the people who have a strong negitive opinions are in strong public places. If they were Objective, that would be great. Not choosing a side but just doing a story. Oh well. Mabe some day.

Maybe they associate MTF with a sexual desire? Who knows really. But there are more programs and articles on MTFs, Mabe if you proportioned them out, they may be even in slanderous media?

I keep rambling :3
Love *Fiona*

[deja true]

Wellllll...... more stories about M2Fs for sure, but you gotta admit that, in general, M2Fs stand out a lot more in the public arena. Not girls like most of us here, we don't wanna stand out really. But think of all the tranny clubs, female impersonators, drag this and drag that on tv game shows and talk shows, and dj's in clubs. M2Fs are just more publicly visible to the 'normal' public.

How 'bout the thousands of tranny porn and ******* web sites?. There's no gettin' away from M2Fs (especially the sleazy kind). A google image search for anything will eventually pull up a chick with d*ck pic. It's so in your face you just can't avoid it.

It's this kind of exposure that makes all CDs look sleazy and perverse. So even stories about regular people who transition from male to female are often tainted with that reality.

Ever see any F2M porn? Me neither. The F2M experience and public presentation has not been tainted with anything like that. The recent NY Times aricle is a good example. A serious article with lots of info on transmale issues, especially how it relates to the higher education experience. Most articles about M2Fs will inevitably have pictures of drag queens in sequinned gowns and dwell on the sexual aspect of the transition. F2M articles deal more in depth with gender issues, not sexuality issues.

I've leave this here.

Anyone else can run with this ball if they want.

deja

[Kieron Andrew]

Ever see any F2M porn? Me neither.

I have...look up Buck Angel :heehee: oh and dont post it here lol

[deja true]

Golly, Kieron, don't let that out! F2M stoies will start to look like M2F stories.

[Kieron Andrew]

Golly, Kieron, don't let that out! F2M stoies will start to look like M2F stories.

:heehee: Buck is a proud 'out' porn actor who elected not to have phalloplasty....well known amongst transmen, ok he does do some adovacy too :heehee:

[Tamara Croft]

I have...look up Buck Angel :heehee: oh and dont post it here lolhttp://www.buckangel.com

I'll post it then :) Now, no drooling :heehee:

[Anna the Dub]

Perhaps it is the inherent sexism in the media. The media is mainly patriarchal, and most men have severe difficulty getting their head around the idea of becoming female, and having their most treasured pieces of their body removed. (I know this for a fact, my male colleagues are perfectly fine with my desire for transition and are mainly supportive, but they were all, to a man, absolutely horrified when I had an orchiedectomy. I took great delight in describing the operation to them, as I had it done under a local). They just can't understand how someone could do this to themselves. Now, the FtMs. Well, I would think that they could possibly understand this, as they are men themselves, perhaps they can understand the desire to be one. So they treat us MtFs as some sort of freak, and FtMs as something requiring some sort of understanding.

[GypsyKaren]

I think it's just a case of the media latching on to someone they feel will be good copy, not which side of the spectrum they represent.

Karen Starlene :star:

[Kieron Andrew]

I think it's just a case of the media latching on to someone they feel will be good copy, not which side of the spectrum they represent.

i agree, that was my point! good stories sell no matter the subject

[CaptLex]

Why that is the Media takes more seriously the FTM colleagues when they interview Them than us MTF?
You mean when they bother to include at all? :raisedeyebrow:


When someone sees a FTM persona they see him as a medical condition. When they see us they see us as freaks.
Sometimes . . . but sometimes they see us as girls playing at being boys. We get questions about why we "want" to be a boy (especially if one looks attractive as a female :rolleyes:), which indicates that they think we're kidding around. In fact, we just are what we are - we're not aspiring to be something different.

[Vaerise]

Maybe its the portrayal of MtF..

Most "uneducated" people are led to believe that MtFs don't lead productive lives. They see MtF as ******* pornstars or prostitutes.

MtF crossdressing has always been considered a deviant behavior.

Thats my take on it..

[Cai]

However, once an FtM has been on T a while that more or less disappears forever. For some MtF’s it never does.

Where are you getting your information? It doesn't matter how long you've been transitioning, if someone is determined to see you as pretending or playing dress-up, they'll still see it. And not all FtMs pass, even with top surgery and T.

[Vaerise]

Read:

http://www.juliaserano.com/outside.html#skirtchasers

Crossdressing is a whole separate issue, this is the transsexual forum.

"uneducated" people will lump them in the same category.

[Stephanie Anne]

Any smart media executive will sell what will get people to watch. "normal" trans people don't sell ratings. Secretly having an affair with your sister's husband and him finding you you have a wee-wee on maury pauvich sells.

As far as crossdressing being a sperate issue... No, it's not. Conducting one's self i the manner of the opposite sex is everyone's business whether crossdresser, transgender or just androgynous.

I think 99% of us just want to live a life no longer in shame. Those 1% who crave the spotlight often tend to take us 10 steps backward for every 5 forward.

I know I just want my piece of pie ala mode without having to have everyone watch me eat it

[Kieron Andrew]

once you've been on T long enough you can just disappear off the radar.

not always...its not good to generalize...i know Transmen who havent been so lucky and still get seen as nothing more than Transman, granted its rare but it does still happen

[Kieron Andrew]

Still these people are quite few in number compared to MtF's. If you still want to argue that I think you just being difficult.

no not arguing that the numbers are few in comparison at all, i did say granted its rare....but it does happen thats all....some with all the will in the world and genetics just dont get so lucky for their voices to drop alot and facial hair hit & miss, its not always a clear cut case is all i was saying

[Valeria]

no not arguing that the numbers are few in comparison at all, i did say granted its rare....but it does happen thats all....some with all the will in the world and genetics just dont get so lucky for their voices to drop alot and facial hair hit & miss, its not always a clear cut case is all i was saying
You know, technically, I don't see why an FTM couldn't have partial Androgen Insensitivity (which would be a mean trick).

I had negligible facial hair myself, totally in a female pattern, after a lot more than 2 years of testosterone. I have a friend with mild AIS who had more facial hair than me, but her voice hardly dropped at all. My voice did drop some, but I had almost none of the other male secondary sexual characteristics - which is why I got called "miss" about half the time by strangers *before* I started HRT or had any other physical mods performed.

If I can go through my entire puberty on T and still get called "miss" a lot by strangers, when I was in total andro mode (no makeup, jewelry, clothing, or other overt external female indicators), I don't see any reason why it couldn't happen to a trans male.

Of course, it'll probably be pretty rare (about as rare as it is in the XY population)...

[Dalece]

To me it seems the media puts more on the Drag Queen or the porno type ********. First thing to remeber is that sex sells. For us that are more ladies than the above. we are going to observed as sick or what ever. As for F2M I don't know I know a few and they do look quit hansome.

[GypsyKaren]

As far as crossdressing being a sperate issue... No, it's not. Conducting one's self i the manner of the opposite sex is everyone's business whether crossdresser, transgender or just androgynous.

Nothing against crossdressers, but please don't lump me into the same category, I'm nothing like them at all.

One thing I would like to add, I think it's great that FtMs are finally getting their due, it's about time.

Karen Starlene :star:

[CaptLex]

I have yet to meet such a case. All the guys I've met who have been on T more than 2 years blend completely.
Allow me to introduce myself, then. :wave:


Once you have facial hair and your voice drops it's hard not to be taken as a guy usually. This is assuming the person is binding or has had top surgery. Still these people are quite few in number compared to MtF's.
I don't know how many FtMs you know, as compared to MtFs, but this seems like a broad generalization to me. As I'm sure you know, depending on many factors, hormones will have different effects on different people. It's been my experience that what you say is generally true of guys that start T while they're still young, but it takes a lot longer for things to change on older guys like me.


If you still want to argue that I think you just being difficult.
Do you think that everyone who disagrees with you is just being difficult (I noticed you called Cai and Kieron that)? If so, I guess you can call me difficult too. :p

[Tristan]

Why are you being difficult?

Yes, people who know can be problematic for both FtM's and MtF's...

However, for others who don't know, once you've been on T long enough you can just disappear off the radar. It's NOT that simple for MtF's.

It's unfair to make that categorization. There are trans women who transition extremely well and you can't tell they are trans even in the nude. Not to be lewd, but I doubt you could say the same about very many trans men if you saw them in the buff. The t may help for most after a couple years not be mistaken for female, but it's not a given, it's not a guarantee. I don't think it should be a competition either. We are all trans and we all are fighting the same fight for rights.

[Kieron Andrew]

IThere are trans women who transition extremely well and you can't tell they are trans even in the nude.

You know i went away and thought about this i can safely say i know a number of MtF who have NOT had facial surgery, who pass VERY well as GGs, and as you say Post Op you wouldnt know it wasnt the real McCoy

[Vaerise]

Hehe while we don't wish to be lump together.. The media will as long as it makes their story more sensational. They will exploit everything that they can

[Miss Tessa]

Because us MTF's are women, and historically, women have been oppressed and persecuted all throughout time.

In addition to that, men in entertainment and the ones who are the consumers of the entertainment think a "man" in a dress is funny for some reason. That is a very sort way to say it.

It's sooooo ridiculous, but I SO hope all TS's become at least as excepted and UNDERSTOOD scientifically by the average population in the near future that many more will come out rather than commiting SUICIDE like the 40% statistic who don't transition says they do. And we might just get more respect and be taken seriously and LOVED by our families.

[Miss Tessa]

OH! and yes, in the media it's always Drag Queens, CD hookers, TS hookers, and ******* trash.

They give alot of people a bad name. Personally, I think they should be free too but don't LUMP them in with serious TS women.

Sensation and ratings is what it's all about. What they can make money off of.


I HATE when on my favourite cartoons like Simpsons, Family Guy, etc, they say things like "transvestite" or even something ignorant like "PRE-OP transvestite". No such thang. Only TS's get SRS at least in America.

I have been called a Transvestite and I hate it. I'm a TS. not some guy who puts on women's clothes and jacks off.

[Sharon]

I have been called a Transvestite and I hate it. I'm a TS. not some guy who puts on women's clothes and jacks off.

Do you know that you have just insulted a great number of members?

[Nicki B]

I had negligible facial hair myself, totally in a female pattern, after a lot more than 2 years of testosterone. I have a friend with mild AIS who had more facial hair than me, but her voice hardly dropped at all. My voice did drop some, but I had almost none of the other male secondary sexual characteristics - which is why I got called "miss" about half the time by strangers *before* I started HRT or had any other physical mods performed.

Have you ever had your chromosomes tested? I've known at least three girls who had surgery and discovered at least partially formed ovaries were present?


Nothing against crossdressers, but please don't lump me into the same category, I'm nothing like them at all.

I do wonder how many you actually know. :sad:

[Valeria]

Have you ever had your chromosomes tested? I've known at least three girls who had surgery and discovered at least partially formed ovaries were present?
I was diagnosed with mild AIS. I don't mention it often, because it's not all that relevant. A lot of intersexed people like to stress how different they are from "those trans people", but I don't see as how it made much difference in my life. I was an adult before I was even diagnosed. Also, not everyone really agrees that MAIS counts as intersexed, and I don't really care to debate it.

As far as I'm concerned, if you were assigned to one gender, initially socialized for that gender, rejected that gender, and eventually transitioned, then it doesn't much matter how "normal" your body was initially. I think that all trans folk are probably neurologically intersexed anyway.

Part of why I don't normally bring it up is that I like to assert that it's possible for trans females to transition, be happy, get gendered as female consistently, and be completely free of dysphoria - and I've had people that knew tell me "well you don't count - you're intersexed, so you are a special case". The only ways in which I'm "special" are that I was able to save a lot of money on hair removal, and I didn't really need hormones to get gendered correctly under most circumstances (though hormones did end up helping me more than I expected).

[privateperks]

I was diagnosed with mild AIS. I don't mention it often, because it's not all that relevant. A lot of intersexed people like to stress how different they are from "those trans people", but I don't see as how it made much difference in my life. I was an adult before I was even diagnosed. Also, not everyone really agrees that MAIS counts as intersexed, and I don't really care to debate it.

Just wanted to reply to something you said - I'm intersexed and you're right. A lot of intersexed peeps want nothing to do with trans peeps or trans issues. But I think some of that comes from the way intersexed kids often get raised. If you're diagnosed at birth, parents - and they mean well don't they? - go overboard at times. If I played with my brother's toys I would get told off/cussed/spanked. Now, my family may have gone overboard in their reactions but I know that a more moderate version (removing toys, forced gender conforming dressing, etc.) prevails in a great many families with intersexed children. Gender becomes a not so subtle overtone to your entire childhood and I think you can become sensitive to it at an earlier age than other people. Does it relate to being trans? Well, that's harder to say. I don't always feel as though I fit in here with the transguys because medically we don't have entirely the same concerns - but you know what, they've welcomed me with open arms and are totally willing to sit back, offer encouragement and a shoulder when needed while I try to work out who I am. That's not always the reaction I've gotten from other sections of the LGBT community.

Back to the topic at hand in a way - intersexed people also get a bit of a shitty deal in that respect - 'science projects and freak shows' seem to be the majority of our representations in the media aided and abetted by the medical profession. People like me, who wind up 'confused' about our gender become the bogeyman, used to scare the parents of other intersexed kids into forced gender conformation plans. And then there's the porn angle. I got no problem with porn, if people are happy, over the age of consent, and don't feel as though they are being exploited - good luck to them, it ain't any of my business. BUT I do wish people would think before flinging the term '*******' around in a derogatory manner- if you've ever had it directed against you it can be pretty hurtful.

Just rambling.

[Nicki B]

I think that all trans folk are probably neurologically intersexed anyway.

I think there's more than a possibility... :D


A lot of intersexed peeps want nothing to do with trans peeps or trans issues. But I think some of that comes from the way intersexed kids often get raised. If you're diagnosed at birth, parents - and they mean well don't they? - go overboard at times. If I played with my brother's toys I would get told off/cussed/spanked. Now, my family may have gone overboard in their reactions but I know that a more moderate version (removing toys, forced gender conforming dressing, etc.) prevails in a great many families with intersexed children. Gender becomes a not so subtle overtone to your entire childhood and I think you can become sensitive to it at an earlier age than other people. Does it relate to being trans?

I think many of us who would identify as trans would recognise all the above expectations/reactions... :strugglin

[privateperks]

I think many of us who would identify as trans would recognise all the above expectations/reactions... :strugglin

Undoubtedly. We all have a lot in common with each other if we just take the time to look for it. I've lived all over the place and come to the conclusion that people, no matter their personal circumstances or opinions are pretty much the same when you get right down to it. :)