Update on SO

[Dalece]

Well tonight before I left for work So asked me if what I was doing bad Crossdressing. And I said no. She then asked me if I would have consultation with her Pastor I said yes. She then said later that she couldn't handel it no more or somthing like that and she is leaving. I myself have had enuff since she did find out the way she did see thread SO KNows. I have been honest not hid anything she has asked me if I was going out on occasions and told her no and I didn't and when i DId go out I told her yes. And went out dressed. Well at a loss right now. I will go to her Pastor but to me that is like going into the trap. I need some advice and a hug. If she leaves well I don't know.

[marny]

I went to our family doctor with my wife at her request. That was early on a few years ago and it was very helpful. Our doctor is a woman and it became clear that our situation was new to her too. The discussion improved the situation for everyone! wether it is your pastor or your doctor, talking about it is the key. REally. is that not how you deal with the rest of your life? Marny :D

[Joy Carter]

You know she's saying she will leave because she's hurt. And maybe trying to hurt you, or trying to get you to stop, by saying she's leaving. It's a shock to her for sure. But you have to keep up the communication. Going to the pastor is OK, only if he doesn't take a side. I'd sit down with her and talk, when you both have a day off. Let her ask all the questions and you just answer honestly. You both have to know what the other is thinking. I'd do this before the pastoral visit.

But what do I know. I'm just a cross dresser. LoL:hugs:

[vivianann]

I am sorry you are having difficulty with your wife, anyway do you still love your wife, and does she still love you? I dont know if the meeting with her minister of hate will be productive for you, I think you will both leave there with more bad feelings, if you want to stay married you need to seek out a marriage councelor, that may be a way to maybe work out communication problems, and I would choose a female councelor that is cd friendly.
I know what you are going through, I tried giving up crossdressing, but all I get is depressed, because like you I am more comfortable in dresses than in pants, this crossdressing is a part of us. I am no longer married now, and I am free to be me now whether I am crossdressing or not. My heart goes out to you, I wish you the best Dalece, my prayers are with you.:hugs:

[melissacd]

Going to the Pastor is fine so long as that person can look at the situation objectively and treat this as a marital and not as a moral issue. If the Pastor starts trying to bring religion into the equation then you need to consider a different option for resolving this situation and getting communication flowing.

In my case it was not a religious or moral objection that she had, it was just that she did not, could not accept a man who had a feminine side. Once we established that her distaste for cross dressing was greater than her love for me it became easier to determine the next step which was to end the relationship.

Sometimes, despite all of your best efforts to fix the situation there is nothing to be done. If a person is not willing to meet you half way and listen to your truth then you are finished. Conversely you also have to be willing and open to listening to her perspective too, without judgment, because her view is as valid as is yours and you will hear things tat you don't want to hear. Just listen and make sure that you understand how she feels. This does not mean caving in to her, it means validating that you understand and appreciate her point of view and her feelings on the matter. You should expect no less from her as well.

If you can find a way to work it out between you then you move a step forward together each day. If you cannot, you accept that that is the case and agree together to move on towards separate lives.

The first step has to be a willingness on "both" sides to come up with a solution where everybody wins. You have to win and she has to win. By that I mean that it is a solution that both of you can be happy with. Anything less than that and the train will eventually fall off the tracks or one of you will be perpetually unhappy.

My 2 cents worth

Huggs
Melissa

[Joan Lea]

Dalece:

In my short time here I have noticed your many posts to others.

I am posting just to support you. I cannot advise you because I don't have the experience others have with their SO's. Mine is supportive.

Being a 60's girl I have a live and let live attitude. If it doesn't hurt anyone why not?

Good Luck girl go get them.

Joan Lea

[Amy Hepker]

Now a days a lot of Pasters know that CDing is not bad and that a lot of us do it. There are still a lot out there that will think you are nuts though. The best thing to do is not go with your SO to the Paster, go by yourself and talk to him or her yourself. Usually they will be on the up and up and not be against you if you go by yourself. This is also true if you go to a counselor.

[jessielee]

dear Dalece,
my sweet girl, i hug you right now and am so sad.
you've been given better advice already than i can offer.
except that much of the pastor's degree of religious vs. marital counseling will depend on how open or liberal the church is.
a conservative or xscripturally founded minister wil simply quote Deuteronomy 22:5 and that's the end of it, even though women wear mens clothed all the tinme now, even to church, and good hermeneutics neer basis en entire doctine on only one verse. if i Corinthians 6:9 comes up, "effeminate" does not connotate what we do,most of us, but does address homosexuality.
need to look it up in the Greek.
i know that in a similar circumstance, it it comes to that, i would have to choose between dressing and my family, plain and simple. i would choose family, but i've always been an internalizing shrinking violet.
you have offered so much love and support to your sisters here.
i am so sorry you are being strangled, or so it seems to me.
i pray for your comfort and for your openness and love to be rewarded.
and i pray for your peace.
sending you another great big hug,
love,
jessie

[SherriePall]

I'll just second what jessielee wrote. In addition to the scripture on crossdressing (which has been interpreted to mean forbidding men to enter the women's quarters by dressing as one or that men were not supposed to skip out on their warrior duties by dressing or that women were not supposed to fight by putting on men's armor), there are others following it about mixed fibers, rooftops, etc.
Hope all goes well for you and your SO.

[jessielee]

Sherrie,
you just made a lot of sense, re. context, what the resriction was really for!
thank you so much! you're too modest to be frightened by it!
love,
jessie

[Angie G]

I don't have any answers that I know will really help Just don't get talked into something that will make you unhappy. That will not do you or your wife any good. and I hope all works out for both of you. :hugs:
Angie

[Holly]

...She then said later that she couldn't handel it no more or somthing like that and she is leaving...Dalece, this is kind of important. I think you need to understand exactly what your wife is thinking. Hone, please sit your wife down and talk to her. Allow her to get her feelings out on to the table. Listen to what she has to say. And then tell her how you feel... how important to you she is but that it is also important that you explore this part of your life; that you must discover this dimension of yourself.

As has been said over and over again in this forum, is it the actual CDing that your SO is objecting to or is it the lying and deceit that has upset her. You both need to understand exactly what the problem is before you can together work out the solution. Best wishes, honey.

[TxKimberly]

Dalece,

I'm so sorry that things are hard for you and your wife. Some woman seem to handle it, while others have a hard time. How long has your wife known? I think that often they need some time to let things settle and to work them through in their minds. Initially I think it must be a hell of a shock, but perhaps she will still come to realize that you are still you, you have always been this way, and that this has always been a part of you - perhaps even the part of you that is responsible for traits about you that she likes.
I wish you the very best,
Kim

[Annie D]

Daleece, I too am sorry for your predicament. We all wish that our SO's had the same amount of understanding and compassion for our crossdressing. I agree with those who have said that it is very important for the third party to be a facilitator and not be judgemental. What I read in your post is that your are going to HER pastor and not yours. Do you think it might be a good idea to suggest to have the pastor recommend someone who neither of you know?

With any relationship, there is a great need for compromise. What are the two extremes to the stance both of you have taken? You: Crossdress as much as you want.....SO: Never crossdress again. What is in the middle? Is there anything that you can live with? We all know that giving up crossdressing is really only temporary and sooner or later you will begin again.

As others have suggested, you need to listen to what she is saying and what she means when she says it. As we all have learned sometimes what we say is not what we mean. Are the words that she is saying her own? Does she have a close friend or relative who might be giving her ideas about permanently leaving and get out of a "bad" relationship?

I don't have anything to advise but I support you and want you to consider some things that have not be mentioned.

Love and hugs and good luck!

[Dalece]

There are a lot of questions to answer so i will try. First she ignores me does not say anything when she is in this mood it does no good to try and talk with her. SHe has gotten over angry over little things before stupid stuff and holds a grudge for days. Second you have to read my first post SO KNows and how she did what she did being sneaky and under handed. Third there are things in my life that not enven the forum knows about me where most of my life I have been miserable. Not being able to let my self out until recently and a few times in the past I believe she knew. I mean that I dressed. Those who would love to talk to me I would greatly apriciate that. It is to long to write here. Fourth since I have been out of the closet I'm happier and friends how know me from being shut down to where I'm free and out notice a big difference. Fifth, She was taken some things of mine in the past that she did not approve of and cut them up and left them. for me to find the only thing was for me to do was bear the pain. No fighting back. This was not just cd Clothes but other things. SIxth She has left me before when I was sationed in Arizonia, My neighbor said that she took her to the airport and asked my if I knew. I didn't. She took the kids with her. Some reason because I don't remeber. Seventh. I don't know if there is a family member or someone else saying anything if it is it mite be from her church. Eighth, I cannot and will not go back into that shell of being hurt by what I do, See third. If any of you sisters want to talk to me one on one please let me know I'm hurt and need a hug. Please leave me a private message. Sorry this is long.

[Genifer Teal]

Here is some text on the bible issue. I saved it long ago so I don't fully remember what it says. Maybe some will find it helpful. It may or may not be in our favor. It will give you an idea of what your pastor might wish to talk about.

http://www.whosoever.org/v3i3/deut.html

Gen

[Joy Carter]

Where here for you. :hugs:

[Brynna M]

From reading this post and some of your previous ones Is sounds like you are both very hurt and its fueling you reacctions. It hurts to be rejected by someone you want to love you. There is no way around that is sucks. Don't go back to hiding part of you(but be willing to make concessions for your relationship). You have as much a right to be happy as she does.

She is taking it out on you and you seem to be lashing out here. Venting your feelings is good but in the process of getting your feelings out try to reframe them in a productive way. She may be doing petty things but can you understand it from her perspective? Is there a way to talk to her and fix that. It may involve a fight and you have to be ready to fight if thats the only way she'll really communicate. Some how you have to really talk.

From what you've said about her church I don't think talking to her pastor will help you two come closer. The pastor does not seem the type to find middle ground for the two of you. But there may still be value in going if only to show that you respect your wifes point of view even if you don't agree with it.

Everything has a price. Even happiness. This rough patch is the storm you have to go through. You'll deide what you need to be happy and what concessions you are willing to make and on the otherside you will be a more complete person.

Good luck. May you have all the strength you need. <HUUUUUGGGGG!>

B.

[harmony]

my marriage ended when my ex gave me a clear choice-be what she wanted me to be(cding was only a small part of this)or beeing myself.living a lie for the rest of my life was no option!
we parted more or less amically since we realised our time together was over.she remarried a long time ago and i have been a happy bachelor for 24 years.
i dont want to talk you into leaving!!!but to resist change for the sake of convenience has only misery in store.whereas the right kind of change will open many doors you didnt know existed and taking a little risk every now and then opens the door for opportunity and the advancement of your SELF.

[Christinedreamer]

Numerous mentions have been made about Deuteronomy and its prohibitions against cross gender dressing. Some pastors/priests bring this to the front in any discourse on the idea.

While attendiing an MCC church in Los Angeles our pastor posited the folowing concepts:

The Ten Commandments were the only laws given by God to man. Political and religious "leaders" composed all the others and they were based on customs and traditions of that time and we used to control and or educate the masses. Some were practical and had to do with physical health issues and food prep. Others were distilled versions of long invloved texts and traditions whose original meaning and intent have been so clouded and distorted as to be almost unrecognizable.

In addtion, those who put forth one "rule" from Deuteronomy to discourage our particular endeavor must also enforce all the other prohibitions as they all contain the same admonition: to do so is an abomination unto God. They cannot pick and choose for if they do then all the rules lose any sense of Divine displeasure.

It may be helpful to have a copy of the original Hebrew translated text when discussing this with a pastor so he/she can be eductaed in an unbiased and unedited version of the original law. That way he/she can see that you are not crossdressing for the purposes listed. This ntranslation and explanation by Rabbinical scholrsa is avaialble on line.

Enjoy our "difference"

Christine

[MAJESTYK]

Dalece, I'm sorry that she wasn't strong enough to deal with it and bugged out. I'm sure things will work out for the better and best of luck to you. My wife also says that she will keep you in her Heart.

[stevenholley 49]

Well tonight before I left for work So asked me if what I was doing bad Crossdressing. And I said no. She then asked me if I would have consultation with her Pastor I said yes. She then said later that she couldn't handel it no more or somthing like that and she is leaving. I myself have had enuff since she did find out the way she did see thread SO KNows. I have been honest not hid anything she has asked me if I was going out on occasions and told her no and I didn't and when i DId go out I told her yes. And went out dressed. Well at a loss right now. I will go to her Pastor but to me that is like going into the trap. I need some advice and a hug. If she leaves well I don't know.

She is no true friend to you at all.

[jessielee]

dear Dalece,
received your pm, thank you, with ohters, i am here for you.
gently disagree with Christine, there were many other things recorded as beng directly from God to humans, but its besides the point. as Sherrie pointed out, there were many prohibitions on many things that neither we nor others are under any longer in this dispensation. of course, if one submits him or herself to the law, the whole law, its an entirely different matter.
i am a deeply flawed person but i do not feel hyprocritical at all thinking of you while in church today and considering grace vs. the law.
and i found input i am about to pm you.
but this is abut your SO and about dressing and, it is to be hoped, solutions.
my dear girl. a neutral mediator does sound like the best bet, especially since cding is only a part of the picture. such a counselor wil hear all of your issues, both of yours, and, i pray, advise you with knowledge where we here are largely in the dark
all my very sincere best wishes, dear.
a big hug,
jessie

[AKAMichelle]

I bought this book to help me understand crossdressing in biblical terms. I have to be honest that's I haven't finished reading the book yet. So I am not an expert at the arguments.

Book's Name: Ambi-Gendered: God's Special Gift

Hope this will help you figure out what to do.

[Sally2005]

I was thinking, don't do it, but then I thought, do it and do other stuff too. Get several other opinions too. Sounds like the wrong question to ask is about CDing though...It is more rooted in the past events you listed. She may be just using your CDing as an excuse to deflect personal fault of her own. You have to get her to look at her own issues and poor communications with you rather than telling someone else (you) what you should or should not be doing. Best of luck.

[Suzy Harrison]

Hi Dalece

The thing that's strikes me odd is that she want's you to visit her Pastor - What's he got to do with your private life ?! - Unless of course her Pastor often comes around to your house and asks you for your thoughts concerning his own personal intimate problems.

Sounds like a set up to me - almost as if she already knows what his view will be - and then suddenly you're in the minority.

[vivianann]

I agree with Suzy about the minister and your wife ganging up on you.

[Emily Ann Brown]

Okay...time for the ex-minister to pop in.

Sis, I look at all the stuff in your past and this to me seems like a long standing issue of unhappiness for both of you. Whether the dressing is all it is or not I cannot tell, but I bet you can if you calmly stop and think back to the first time there was tension in your marriage and slowly walk forward from then to now. Whatever the ACTUAL issue is, that is what needs to be addressed. If it isn't actually crossdressing then it won't help to fire the artillery there or try to apply ointment to that area. You have told me before she clams up and stays mad....a nonpartial third person may help break through this.

Now, as to her wanting you to go to see HER pastor. I'd bet my money on a "2 on 1" situation. She wants her minister to point out your error. Been there done that on other issues (as the minister). Suggest a secular marriage counsellor as an option. If she won't at least discuss that route then this has become a "holy war" in her mind. Been there done that as the infidel (giggle giggle).

Deu.22:5 is a verse set in a group of verses giving instructions on how to treat your neighbor and please God. Explanations previously offered fit within that framework. Dressing to gain an advantage of any kind is deceit and I hope we can all agree is not an acceptable thing to do to another. Conservative pastors usually ignore the first part of that verse which instructs women not to crossdress either. They play word games and say things like "well pants made for women are not MENS pants so it's okay." GIGGLE GIGGLE. Whatever. A woman was not allowed in the inner courtyard of the temple. It was said that such an act would bring God's wrath on all the people....this fits in better with the instructions on how to treat your neighbors.....would you want your neighbor to do something that would bring disaster on you an innocent bystander??? I bet not.

Dear, you know I am asking my God to give you peace and comfort in the middle of your storm. I'm here if you need a shoulder to rest on.

Emily Ann

[Di]

The ladies are giving you great advice. I agree have a back up plan.....I would go with her to the Pastor because it shows you are trying but if the Pastor is not open minded and starts trying to bring religion into the equation then you need to have a back up plan.....find someone else you both can talk to. Best wishes:hugs: