It's a matter of perspective...

[Alandra]

I know this particular post is complicated by the fact that it's PERFECTLY OK for women to dress like men to almost whatever extent they want. Up to & including military camo... sometimes it infuriates me.

BUT! My wife pitched this to me and it gave me no small amount of perspective...

Imagine your wife / girlfriend is into CD from HER perspective. She wants to do breast binding. She wants a short haircut. She wants a motorcycle & lots of chrome. She wants to wear boxers to bed. Maybe, just maybe she wants to pursue hormone therapy etc, etc, etc...

How would you feel? What would your next step be? How would you react?

Would you embrace it with open arms? Would you feel betrayed like many GGs do on this forum? "I started a relationship with a woman and dammit I want a woman in my life?"

I know it's easy to read posts from the MtoF perspective & say, "Yeah, she just doesn't understand! What's her problem, anyways? Can't she see that's the way he IS and wants to BE!?" But I tell you... my wife gave me this scenario, and said "Breast binding" and something in me instantly protested. I don't know if I'd be into it.

And I appreciate my understanding, participating, supportive wife just that much more.

I welcome any & all responses from the Tgirls out there... this really made me think.

[O2B Barbara]

My wife is totally supportive within limits. She has no problem with my wanting to pass in public. She supports the lipstick & wigs, breat forms and so on. She is not supportive of hormone therapy, breast implants or a sex change. If she were to wish to make the same journey that I am taking, how could I not support her needs and help her in any way I could?

[Kate Simmons]

Well yes Alandra, it is a lot about perspective somewhat but it is also about our purpose for doing it to begin with. There is no one reason and what it boils down to, especially between a couple is understanding those reasons and the feelings that go along with them. It really is an individual issue with most of us that needs to be considered on a case to case basis. I can't say my reasons for crossdressing and having the need to present as a woman are the same as some of my friends here. That is where the understanding of the motivations and feelings comes in and that is how I feel it is for most of us. It may look kind of ludicrous, silly or shocking up front but there are usually many deep feelings involved that drive it. Trying to understand those feelings is the key, especially in a close relationship.:)

[victoriamwilliams1]

I know of a story on Real People many moons ago about a husband who became the wife and the wife became the husband. I think that if both sides are TS/TG it would not be a problem.

Part two:

If the Husband is in the closet and the wife says she wants to be a man! I think its time for him to come out and say he dress as a woman.

Part Three:

Shock! If I was not a TG/CD, however it is hard to answer this.

This is more common than the public thinks do to the fact that FtM's though it is not always easy for them, they tend to blend in faster that MtF as MtF's. I am quite sure that some husband is finding out that his wife wants to be one of the boys today.

[RobynP]

She wants to do breast binding. She wants a short haircut. She wants a motorcycle & lots of chrome. She wants to wear boxers to bed. Maybe, just maybe she wants to pursue hormone therapy etc, etc, etc...

And she wants you to call her "Steve" instead of "Stephanie" especially in bed... And she wants to go out crossdressed with you to a local bar a shoot a few games of pool with you while maybe trying to see if any of the ladies there would treat her like a man...



How would you feel? What would your next step be? How would you react?

Would you embrace it with open arms? Would you feel betrayed like many GGs do on this forum? "I started a relationship with a woman and dammit I want a woman in my life?"


Let's add another part to the scenario... Let's say this lady's husband is NOT TG, CD, TV, etc. And then he finds crossdressers.com hoping to find some information, some advice, and some support. Surely he would find this with many if not most of the GGs here. But what about support from any of the men here?

I don't want to stray too far off topic but, in general, I think our response would be different than those not T*...

Definitely lots of stuff to think about here!

Peace,
Robyn P.

[Stargirl]

I was thinking about something last night along the same lines. My reaction would probably be based upon my own evolution and expectations. Perhaps at 40 my reaction would have been different from 80. If I had a lover who announced that he wanted to be "as female as possible including hormones, or full op," I would have to ask myself what part of him meant the most to me. Am I in love with an image, or a substance ? Is my love now unconditional ? Will I lose him altogether, and is that going to happen anyway, no matter what I say or do ? Or can we adapt, somehow ?

Should I play the role of the "little woman who tries to talk him out of it, just to make society happy?" Do I panic ? And that would do what, exactly ? Burn calories ? Make me feel a fear of abandonment ? I would have to trust his judgement. In time, our relationship would endure, or not. But, I would certainly learn a lot about myself in the process. And if he/she became a happier person, I could share that happiness, hopefully, at least along emotional lines, or within an enduring friendship. It's very hard to throw certain people out of our lives. That's just the way it is for some of us.

[Tammy298]

Ok, if we really want to look at "crossdressing" from an interesting and very real perspective, what about men's and women's fashions, and how they've evolved during the last century. Except for kilts, western man (I.E. North America & Europe) has for the most part, worn some sort of pants or shorts, and shirts. Maybe a coat, vest and/or tie are added, but not much more.
Now where have women's fashions gone? Dresses, all sorts of dresses; long, short, full, fitted, plain or frilly. The same goes for skirts and blouses. But, it didn't end there. No, many women wanted to be accepted in a "man's society". So they started to wear shorts and even pants. Ok, they call them "slacks", well then, so do men!
My point is, that women have been crossdressing for the last half a century! So why can't a man wear a dress and be accepted?
The same can be said for shoes, makeup and hairstyles.
A lot of women wear jeans, sweatshirts or T-shirt and tennis shoes. So do guys. Just walk around any mall or grocery stor.
So, if a woman can decide whether to wear a dress or pants, why can't a man?

[gennee]

Your wife makes a good point, Alandra. I haven't really thought about it. FTM's do have a harder time but they seem to have an easier time blending into society, if I'm understanding it correctly.

Gennee

:)

[Alandra]

Ok, if we really want to look at "crossdressing"
My point is, that women have been crossdressing for the last half a century! So why can't a man wear a dress and be accepted?
The same can be said for shoes, makeup and hairstyles.
A lot of women wear jeans, sweatshirts or T-shirt and tennis shoes. So do guys. Just walk around any mall or grocery stor.
So, if a woman can decide whether to wear a dress or pants, why can't a man?

Tammy: Addressed in m original post. You have missed the spirit thereof. Go back & read it again. Then post.
"Thank you for your coopetation"
-Ace Ventrua-

[TGMarla]

I agree with your wife, Alandra. I openly admit that I wouldn't like it if my wife did this. And as a heterosexual couple, she is as repelled by the thought of intimacy with women as I am with men. I know this, and I don't crossdress in front of her. She surely wouldn't like it, and frankly, I don't blame her.

Those of you with accepting spouses (err...SOs) don't know what treasures you have in your lives. It is almost impossible to truly know another right down to his or her soul. But if I could make it so that my wife truly knew me that deeply, I would have her know that there is a significant part of me that longs to be female. Another part of me is content the way I am. But I do not have any desire to go through transition. Thus, I will stay my wife's husband, and be the best husband that I can to her. I will love her and be there for her. I will also persue my feminine endeavors on my own time, keeping it away from her, and allow her to continue without this in her life. She has a right to this. I didn't tell her about this before we were married. It wasn't in the deal.

So yeah, I understand just what the whole objection is. Crossdressing and female emulation is not abhorrent to me at all. I enjoy it a great deal. In fact, after these many years, it is something that I need to have in my life. I don't see it going away. But it is rather abhorrent to her, whether I like it or not, and as her husband, I need to respect that.

[Joanne f]

If you want people to accept the way you want to be then you have to accept others for the way they want to be , how can you expect to have your freedom of choose if you will not allow others to have theirs.


joanne

[jessielee]

that person is still there.
even as we are, perhaps moreso.
it is unquestionably a stretch. but no more than the stretch we ask of them.
just think of the women past who passed as men and have been applauded in the history books as pushing for rights, autonomy and career opportunity.
we seek litttle different, expressing our inner being.
if your SO is honestly curious, the FtM section here provides much food for thought both for her and for me.
infinite diversity in infinite combinations,
jessie

[VeronicaH]

Wow! Tough question. I would accept her wishes as she has accepted mine..although the breast binding would be very hard.

[Sandi jo]

I've thought about this and it keeps the pink fog in check

[Daphne7]

well ladies, i am the wife.
the scenario i posed was purely hypothetical. To set the record straight: I am happily married to him and not interested in breast binding or cross-dressing FtoM.

As it has been noted many times: women have blown the top off the container for fashion freedom. Wearing pants and jeans is perfectly acceptable for women. On that topic i have little to say except that public acceptance came about due to practicality. There are many physical motions that are limited when wearing certain "female" clothing styles. This however is not the subject being discussed.

The whole point of my hypothetical question was for him to put himself in my shoes by exactly reversing our situation.
To set the stage carefully:
I have no CDing desires. I am a girl, i don't feel compelled to dress like a man, have a beard, have male genitalia, or any number of other commonly associated male characteristics.
Then BAM! suddenly he tells me that he likes wearing women's underwear and the CDing can of worms opens.
The Scenario:
What if HE had no CDing tendencies to dress like a girl and I was the one to BAM! suddenly tell him that i liked wearing a strap-on with men's underwear under my regular clothes and open the CDing can of worms.

How would he deal with it?

*Note: In this scenario i am not talking about gender identity issues. That is different can of worms.

Obviously it generated a lot of thought on his part. We have discussed it on several occasions. We have come a long way since he opened up to me that he CDs. And everyday I'm glad he told me.

But how would YOU deal with it? If you were a man who had no CDing tendencies and suddenly you find out that your female partner has this unexplainable desire/urge to dress like a man (and all the other desires/tendencies that go along with CDing)

I always knew how i would react to a male partner that was violent towards me or cheated on me, but i had never thought about how i would react to a male partner that was a CDer. It never occurred to me that it would be a situation that would crop up in my life. So i was overwhelmed at first with the magnitude of what he said.

It is difficult to wrap your mind around finding yourself in the situation of being with a partner that CDs when that wasn't something you signed up when you got together with the person. If you're able to successfully suspend your CDing mindset and really put yourself in the nonCDer's shoes then you'll gain a new perspective.
To have my CDing hubby be able to truly relate to me on my terms as a nonCDer was extremely helpful. After all he is asking me to relate to him as a CDer.

[Alice B]

I think your wife makes a very good argument and should make us be a little more accepting from our perspective as to what we wish for or demand from our wife or SO. We all deal with different levels of acceptance. The problem could be that we read what others have in acceptance that some of us do not have, thus try to push a bit too hard for the next level. I find myself wishing for that or trying to push it. I think maybe it is time to back off a bit and be more patient. Thanks for the post.:hugs:

[Daphne7]

Alice B, you hit on a very important point- that not every nonCDer is the same.

NonCDer's are just like CDer's. We all come from different childhood families and have a vast array of experiences that shape us to become who we are each moment. Just as no CDer is the same, it also holds true for nonCDer's. NonCDer's are not the same either.

it isn't always easy to be a nonCDer and accept a CDing partner.
BUT
sometimes it is easy to be a nonCDer and accept a CDing partner.

Heck, often it is hard for the CDer to accept being a CDer!


to have a CDing partner suspend their CDing issues and think about what it is like for the nonCDing partner is an important step to communicating.

[Julie York]

I'd ask her to unblock the sink and take the rubbish out while she was at it.

[Daphne7]

that's not what this is about and you know it. Julie.

by the way: i do my fair share of mowing the lawn and shoveling snow. Just the same as he does "girl chores".
In my world day to day living is split more equally between the genders than what you may believe. i don't think either gender gets the short end of the stick anymore and i am tired of people who continue to perpetuate the idea that they are a victim because of their gender, race or age.

[Julie York]

that's not what this is about and you know it. Julie.

by the way: i do my fair share of mowing the lawn and shoveling snow. Just the same as he does "girl chores".
In my world day to day living is split more equally between the genders than what you may believe. i don't think either gender gets the short end of the stick anymore and i am tired of people who continue to perpetuate the idea that they are a victim because of their gender, race or age.


Clue:.......":D"

[JackieS]

Those of us who have had marriages breakdown over this issue often lament that what we do is not harmful to others, and that what our wives had was a package that was far better than a lot of women get with a non TG husband. The point I think we miss is the perspective to see the situation from the other person's shoes. Daphne, this scenario goes along way to illustrating what that perspective can look like. For myself, I look at people for who they are not for what they look like. I find myself drawn to both women and men based on how we interact, intellectually, emotionally and physically. If that person wants to present themselves in a specific way that is not the norm, so be it. I believe my wife loved a perception of me, not who I really am, which is why it was so easy for her to fall out of love. I will not fall into the same trap. Who I am is so innately intertwined with my CDing that to try to separate them is folly. I believe that would be the same for a woman who wanted to present as a man.

[Daphne7]

JackieS- i agree on many levels.
But i also see that when two people marry and the nonCDer has no idea that the other person is a CDer that it can be a sign of a HUGE lack of trust in the relationship to begin with. In that case a rough time or breakup is not all that surprising.

In our thoughts people project themselves into the future. We all envision possible selves. When getting married we all think of what our marriage is going to be like and how it will intertwine with our life as a whole. A nonCDer who has little to no exposure to the CDing world would not envision possible selves with a CDing partner. The possibility just does not occur to them.

Then when the nonCDer finds that their partner CDs they have no notion of how to deal with it at first. Their whole marriage and therefore entire future arrangements are thrown into limbo. Do I accept? Can I accept? What hardships will there be? How far into this is the CDer? Can the CDer not CD? What will our family, friends, co-workers think? How will I deal with losing long-time friends or having people spread nasty rumors? Do i even care what others think? And that's the tip of the iceberg.

There are a zillion questions. There is going to be a an uncomfortable period of time while the couple tries to answer all the questions and fashion a new equilibrium of roles and expectations within the relationship.

Some nonCDers are not ready or willing to give up their ideas of the possible self they could be and therefore having a CDing partner is not going to work for them, no matter how much they love each other. Love wants the best for the other person. If both people want the best for each other and ackwnoledge that the nonCDer would be happier with another nonCDer and the CDer would be happier if allowed to CD then separation is the likely route.

Thankfully, though i never envisioned it, I am ready and willing to see a possible self for me with my CDing partner (now that i know about the CDing). But originally i was not looking for a CDer when we got together. Life just sort of happened and this is part of who my partner is. I choose to see the positives and work through any negatives when they crop up. Now that we've reestablished equilibrium our lives haven't changed much. There are just some new activities that we enjoy together.