A Point to ponder

[Vanessac48]

There isn't a right or wrong answer to all this, but I guess this thought passed through my mind, and wanted to hear some thoughts on it. Some CD's are married, with a wide variety of feelings by their wife, if they know about it, from very accepting, to outright divorce material, and everything inbetween. So here is my question. What if we as a crossdresser, had a wife, girlfriend, significant other, etc. that was exactly like us, but loved wearing men's clothes, cologne, cut there hair butch short, let their body hair grow, put on a fake bulge, and wore either a fake beard, mustache or both? then they wanted us to sleep with them like that, or go out with them. How would you feel? We expect women to understand, and I'll answer this question from my own feelings. If I had a wife/girlfriend,etc. that did that, I'd not be too accepting. it would be very strange to me, so I guess I'm the pot calling the kettle black so to speak. Just being blantantly honest here. Before I asked myself this question, I asked another, why would it be so hard for a woman to understand? When I put the shoe on the other foot, I guess I answered that question myself, at least how it pertains to me. It just helps me understand another's point of view. I would just find it difficult kissing a wife with a beard, men's cologne, etc, but I think in some respects, I would expect a woman to kiss me when I am wearing fake boobs, perfume, lipstick and eyeliner. Maybe as men, we have the lesbian fantasy, so this seems more normal, than for us to be putting our arms around another apparent man, because we love femininity. Your thoughts?

[bEEb]

A bisexual bears dream? :heehee:

[MsJanGG]

this is very interesting... In some ways having Michelle come out as a more dominant partner in our relationship has helped her understand more about me. I am not a girly girl that loves dresses and makeup all the time. I am more comfy when I pull on a pair of jeans and a teeshirt. It has helped "him" accept me for more of who I really am. I can certainly doll up and we went thru a phase of "him" wanting me to "dress up" for him... but the more "she" came out and she saw that I truly accepted her for her, well it helped him accept me for who I am. So not totally your question but thought it was in the ballpark??

[CaptLex]

Your thoughts?
I think that we can't help being attracted to whatever we're attracted to . . . which also means that we can't fault others if they're not attracted to us. :strugglin

[DemonicDaughter]

Beautifully illustrated point!

Though we all have our brands of kink, some people do not find the same sex attractive. And in that sense, I find a CDer pushing sex in dress on their SO extremely hypocritical. I understand for many its a fantasy but it isn't always one of an SO.

Yet...

There is a bit about many CDers personality that makes their coming out not exactly a complete shock (yes, there are exceptions to every rule including this one, hear me out before igniting the flame-throwers). Its not that they do anything to indicate they wear women's clothing, many hide it extremely well. But some often have a more "feminine" personality or mannerisms. I've heard numerous times that many were asked if they were gay even when the person had no clue they cross-dressed simply because they had a "softer" personality or were more sensitive.

In this sense, many CDers coming out isn't really so much a shock personality wise, but more of a "you lied to me all this time" surprise. That's the biggest key difference with those that accept and those that tolerate and those that do neither.

This is where many say, "I haven't changed anything but my clothes" and they would be right.

So yes, though a lot of MtF CDers wouldn't particularly enjoy their SO's being opposite the woman they love, it also is the personality that makes the biggest difference. There are days when I'm a complete fem and days I'm a complete butch. I am both masculine and feminine. My SO loves me that way. Just as I love her being more feminine. That's who she is. In her case, it would just be the clothing that changed, not her personality.

Okay, ignite the flamethrowers if you still feel the need. :hiding:

[Kate Simmons]

There is no "one size fits all" answer to this question and never will be. It basically comes down to the individual people involved and their feelings on things and for each other and their overall acceptance level.

[BethCD]

Vanessa, Great post! I went through the same thought process and it helps me to restrain my CDing for my wifes sake.
While she is very tolerant, it is possible to see too much of Beth. :2c:

[Rachaelb64]

A little role reversal?

Personally I don't know how I would feel, prpbably accept her cus I do tend go by how people treat me rather than whether they are; gay (male/female), transexual, bi, straight, white, black, male ,female etc........

But it would be interesting to be on the 'other side' so speak an experience it from a different angle.........:2c:

[Megan (VA)]

If she made what I found to be an attractive man I would have no trouble with it at all. I have found some FTMs to be quite hot actually.

[jaina]

There isn't a right or wrong answer to all this, but I guess this thought passed through my mind, and wanted to hear some thoughts on it. Some CD's are married, with a wide variety of feelings by their wife, if they know about it, from very accepting, to outright divorce material, and everything inbetween. So here is my question. What if we as a crossdresser, had a wife, girlfriend, significant other, etc. that was exactly like us, but loved wearing men's clothes, cologne, cut there hair butch short, let their body hair grow, put on a fake bulge, and wore either a fake beard, mustache or both? then they wanted us to sleep with them like that, or go out with them. How would you feel? We expect women to understand, and I'll answer this question from my own feelings. If I had a wife/girlfriend,etc. that did that, I'd not be too accepting. it would be very strange to me, so I guess I'm the pot calling the kettle black so to speak. Just being blantantly honest here. Before I asked myself this question, I asked another, why would it be so hard for a woman to understand? When I put the shoe on the other foot, I guess I answered that question myself, at least how it pertains to me. It just helps me understand another's point of view. I would just find it difficult kissing a wife with a beard, men's cologne, etc, but I think in some respects, I would expect a woman to kiss me when I am wearing fake boobs, perfume, lipstick and eyeliner. Maybe as men, we have the lesbian fantasy, so this seems more normal, than for us to be putting our arms around another apparent man, because we love femininity. Your thoughts?


This point is often brought up to justify controlling CDing or justifying a belittling atitude toward a CDing partner. The fact is either partner has full rights to their own body. You can't control it even if you find it unatractive.

[ColleenW]

Of course a lot of what you've described GG's can and do, do now without any complaint from society. It has always seemed to me unfair that GG's can dress and act as men do but it's looked down upon when men do the same.

[DemonicDaughter]

Of course a lot of what you've described GG's can and do, do now without any complaint from society. It has always seemed to me unfair that GG's can dress and act as men do but it's looked down upon when men do the same.

Okay, that statement is about to be flamed! You can't say this! Take one look in the FtM forum and you'd understand its just as hard for them as it is for you! And if its "oh so accepted" that GGs can wear whatever they want, why was that gothic couple beaten to death just last week!? Why are their people beating other people because of their clothes!!! Making such general statements is really insulting.

No one group has it any easier than another! We ALL have our own problems to face! Making such statements only causes animosity and further separates people in this forums!

[jaina]

Of course a lot of what you've described GG's can and do, do now without any complaint from society. It has always seemed to me unfair that GG's can dress and act as men do but it's looked down upon when men do the same.

Admiting it is not popular here, but like those that actually go out, admiting it is one small step toward helping remove that imbalance.

[Jilmac]

Speaking only for myself, When I married my wife I took a vow to love honor and cherish. Throughout the 26 years of my marriage I gave her unconditional love and that meant accepting whatever eccentricities she may have had. Even though she knew about my dressing, she found it difficult to accept but she never stopped loving me. I think if she had wanted to crossdress as you described, I probably would have had a difficult time accepting it but I would have still loved her just as much.

My wife had a lot of hang ups and confusion that kept her from accepting my femme side and consequentally, I was forced to hide my dressing from her. She is probably watching me from the great beyond and going tsk tsk as I type this reply wearing my grey mini and pink knit top, but I have a SO now who knows all about Jill and doesn't have a problem with my dressing so I no longer have to hide. I realize if the shoe hd been on the other foot, I may have had questions, confusion, and hang ups too. Luv and :hugs: Jill

[StefanieWA]

My wife and I had some issues sometime ago which almost lead to divorce one aspect of our relationship was that she was very manly in appearance, at the point where we trying to sort things out I pushed on her the dress / make up issue, I now realise that we are all individuals and feel comfy in what ever we wear and we accept them for that. it was 8 months later that I came out to her some 12 months later, I think subconciously I was transfering my own secret desires to dress on to her don't know but anyway, as far as the beard thank goodness she hates beards....

Stefanie

[danielle_from_cal]

This question has crossed my mind before. It's one of the reasons I have not let my wife know about my crossdressing. I am married to a very feminine woman. She loves her fashion and makeup and so do I. If she were to tell me one day that she wanted to be a man (especially a hairy one), we would have to prepare to part. Now, if she wanted to be a man but dress as a woman, that might be something I could figure out a way to deal with.

On the other hand (and this is far from realistic), if I could become a beautiful woman and she could become a handsome man, maybe staying together would be something to consider. I mean, I would have to have a hole on the slippery side (if you know what I mean) and real boobs. If all this were to happen, I could deal with it. Otherwise, I am out of there.

[bimini1]

I once went with a girl who I thought was trans. She would constantly complain about being female and often said she would like to come back in another life and be a pro athlete. Unfortunately it was at a time when my self hate was high. She was a stage actress and had to play a male role in this play once and I was so attracted to her. Oh the possibilities if we weren't so afraid of my femme self. If I could do it over again I would have def tried to expound upon that for sure! I often wonder about her.

[cinderellaman]

As MTF crossdressers, we would have to accept. It would be hypocritical not to. I'm sure I'd have problems at first (like my wife had) but I would accept that it is a part of her that she needs to express. I could give her tips like she gives me now.

[crusadergirl]

That would bother me at first. I'm not really in to girls looking like guys but i could learn to live with it if it was my gf. I see that comment alot about GG's can wear what they want and no one cares. I don't believe that statement is all true. Just b/c you don't hear ppl talking about it don't mean ppl accept it.
Girls can dress the way they want and so can everybody else.

[Brianna1]

I found quite strange feelings when I went to view the Rogues gallery as I said in a previous thread but despite that I would have to be fair to a SO if I were in the situation described here. I do understand why a GG would have the feelings they often do.
After years with support from my ex wife, I entered an alternative lifestyle because she wanted to do that and I wanted to learn about it too. There were other reasons why I did it. What I found was a group of people who because of their own nature were extremely supportive of my CDing. I made a lot of friends that are still my friends. I am certainly grateful to them and can see the value in what came my way even though we split up in the end. My answer is that I would reciprocate the support I was getting, you never know where it can lead you!! :)

[O2B Barbara]

My wife is quite supportive and understanding of my need to dress. If she were to come to me and say that she had deisres to dress as a man, how could I do less than return the consideration?

[Lucy Bright]

And if its "oh so accepted" that GGs can wear whatever they want, why was that gothic couple beaten to death just last week!? Why are their people beating other people because of their clothes!!!

I know this is a bit off topic, but your bringing up that terrible case reminds me of something I've been thinking about the last few days. The BBC keep referring to the victim as being "dressed as a goth" rather than just as "a goth". I keep doing a double take at that, rather as if they'd said she was "dressed as a woman." They weren't on their way to a costume party, being a goth was part of who she was, and her clothing choices expressed that, so why this attempt to put a wedge in between who presented as being and who she really was? I don't think the BBC were deliberately trying to put her down, but it's strange - and of course it rang a loud transgender bell in my own head.

Kisses,

Lucy

[Lucy Bright]

My wife is quite supportive and understanding of my need to dress. If she were to come to me and say that she had deisres to dress as a man, how could I do less than return the consideration?

Quite right.

Kisses,

Lucy

[Nicki B]

The BBC keep referring to the victim as being "dressed as a goth" rather than just as "a goth". I keep doing a double take at that, rather as if they'd said she was "dressed as a woman."

Perhaps it is that, like all of us, FTMs, MTFs, SOs - first and foremost she was a person? :strugglin

[Angie G]

Fine she I mean he can go to work and I'll stay home. as far as added parts go as long as they don't get in the way.:hugs:
Angie

[Lucy Bright]

Perhaps it is that, like all of us, FTMs, MTFs, SOs - first and foremost she was a person? :confused_

Well yes, absolutely - and I don't think the BBC was being dismissive at all, but it did make me think about what was implied by their choice to use that "dressed as a" phrase.

For example, If I saw the phrase "the victim was dressed as a policeman" or "the victim was dressed as a woman" in a newspaper report I would infer that the victim wasn't really a policeman (or a woman). So when I see "dressed as a goth" it makes me wonder, does that imply "not a goth in fact"? And that confuses me, because "being a goth" in large part is about choosing to present oneself to the world as a goth.

It's trivial in this case (compared to the horrific nature of what happened to that poor woman), but it pinpointed a wider confusion I have about gender, what's "real", what's not, and where presentation and (self-)perception come into it. It comes of trying to read Judith Butler...

[Nicki B]

Lucy,

I think, in that particular case, there has been a very widespread revulsion to the facts of the case as they came out?

When policemen and women are killed (Broadwater? Leeds?) the media tend to concentrate on their name, to personalise it and try to get empathy - IMHO, that's the same as was being done here?


The person I feel saddest for is her BF - he seems unable to accept that she stayed, to defend him - she gave her life to protect him, knowingly? He needs to get on and lead the life she gave hers for - there is no greater love?

[Lucy Bright]

The person I feel saddest for is her BF - he seems unable to accept that she stayed, to defend him - she gave her life to protect him, knowingly? He needs to get on and lead the life she gave hers for - there is no greater love?

I agree. Hopefully that'll be more possible for him now her murderers have been convicted.

Kisses,

L

[DemonicDaughter]

Lucy & Nicki,

One of the things that I always found interesting is most of the "goths" I know, never actually call themselves gothic. Most of us are just being ourselves and if its considered gothic, fine. But I do completely see your points of view.

I think its why I get so annoyed at the "ggs can wear whatever they want and no one bats an eye". Puh-lease! We've been fighting for CENTURIES to wear what we like and its STILL complained about!

Like I said, no one group has it any easier, just different problems.

[Nicki B]

I agree. Hopefully that'll be more possible for him now her murderers have been convicted.

I hope so. I think atm he's too wrapped up in he was trying to give his life for her.. :sad:

[avery99]

i found this to be a profound and insight question, and in addition the replies, while crossing a gamut of experience and opinion, generally realistic and fair.

the short answer, it seems to me, is that if a person must reach for their own nature (such as m2f or exploring femininity), then that person must respect the consequences of whether their own nature will be accepted or not. there is plenty of evidence to suggest that repression is unhealthy and a bottleneck to growth, but in pushing through to the other side, it is possible that ones partner may not be able to accept. thus, compassion for the partner is in order.

[paulaluvssz8]

I was just thinking about this same matter the other day. I have tried to put myself into her shoes. So to speak. Yeah but they don't fit. LOL. Well anyway. And as I thought about it I would have a problem with her all hairy and stuff. One thing is for sure I'm not into kissing on a hairy face and body and things. So I would not expect her to want to go against what her sexual preference is. I would love for her to be accepting and want to support me in a way that I could explore my femm side and if sex happened with her while I am dressed. i guess that it would be kinda strange for her and myself. But we would chalk it up for another thing we have tried in our sex life together. I will not push it on her and cause her to have to deal with those emotions. I have caused enough in our marriage. Not as far a cheating or nothing but Paula has been tough on her. :doh: