Fear

[Niya W]

This might be a bit of a different question. Have you every had a fear about being around men ?

in my teenage years through early adult years I aways felt uncompilable around men. I never quiet got the hang of male gestures. The whole male bonding was awkward for me. Because of how I acted I was thought of as gay. That didn't bother me but the fear of what other guys would do if they thought I was gay. I dont know if this was a rational fear, but I was scare because I acted different, I was different. Just a shy 5'6" 130 fem acting boy. Heard a lot of homophobic remarks and worked with guys that couldn't understand any thing other than what they grew up with.

[tgirlinva]

Hi Niya,

Most definitely. I grew up actually having a crush on most jocks. I was always part of the geek squad and I wasn't much of a target. But there were rumors about me being gay, etc. However, I somehow always attracted girls and would always be able to connect with them. So during the dances, proms, etc. I would always be able to find a date. So it sort of confused most straight men. Some probably thought I was bi, I'm not sure. Nobody really ever came up to me and asked me if I was gay. But I completely know what you're talking about. Men do interact in a very weird, yet attractive way. I guess that's the way I like my men, macho and masculine. But as a guy, I never could replicate that in order to get close to them. Again, most guys that ever came near me came for homework answers, so.... But had I not been the geek of the school, I probably would've been stoned and flagged as the "gay" one.

[AmberTG]

Oh ya, been there, done that, got the mental scars to prove it.

[Sally2005]

Ya, the stereotypical gym teacher/jock type scare me. Some men spend way too much time telling others how much of a man they are and that bugs me. People are people and it scares me when too much focus is put on only one dimension. The refeshing part is that a lot of time it is just talk...and most men don't actually believe what they are saying, it is the ones who believe in it that scare me.

[Dalece]

Ninya Sister I'm with you, Most of my life younger years. I was picked on and when I enlisted in the Navy. My femine gestures got me into trouble. thought I was gay. Also had the problem had small breasts at time. Great now but bigger. The other s would try and fondel them. Have a lot of bad memories from that. There are other things they did to me I can't mention here.

[Scotty]

I never cared for the macho thing. I never fit into those groups.

I always did personal competitions, martial arts, racing etc but never did much with guy team sports. Co-ed team sports yes :)

[Megan (VA)]

I have felt afraid in groups of men, especially when they are drinking, getting rowdy, etc. I can also say that I have never felt 100% comfortable with a straight man. I always feel a tension there, and it isn't always sexual. It's probably because I have trouble identifying and relating with them and always have.

[Melanie85]

There was a brief period of 1-2 weeks were I could have been described as the stereotypical man-hatin' feminist dyke... but that was because I felt particularily powerless at the time and hated all oppressors.. I hated whitey alot too, even if I am white.
Didn't help I didn't like my own maleness

(Sidenote: At one point I realized I identified with so many things that were oppressed I no longer said 'woe is me, I am bisexual' 'polyamorous people are so oppressed', but 'hey, at least I'm white', 'phew, good thing I know not poverty and my parents have enough to help pay University')

last time I worked with an all-male environment I felt really weird and did some horrible things... I was acting macho to fit in - keyword on acting here. I wasn't myself. I didn't know why I was like this at the time.

FtMs take note: Macho-type behaviour is for retarded males only. Don't be a retard. In fact, feminists have done a good job of destroying the female equivalent of exaggerated narrow female gender-roles. Something needs to be done to the male equivalent which also oppresses all men. (some male feminist are doing it but are drowned in a sea of fake masculinists that seem to care more about whining about the evils of feminism rather than fixing Men's problems) If only there existed guys that were able to realize for sure how retarded and self-oppressive some of that machismo really is... guys that knew a great deal about overcoming gender role indoctrination, feminism/anti-sexism, and fear of being different... Hmmm... if only...

Wow.... that was a huge digression... perhaps I should address this in the transmasculine forums under a proper thread? Naahhhhh I'm soo lazy today

Other than that, as far as I know I don't feel uncomfortable around men.

Random link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VS95eIKOyCE

[Ibuki_Warpetal]

I have always been afraid to touch males. I also don't like to look them in the eyes. I just have an aversion towards them. I've fought it at times, and some of my friends and family I am comfortable with but for the most part I do have an irrational aversion.
I think it's my own unique brew of homophobia. Like you, people thought I was gay, despite having a great affinity for the opposite sex. Knowing this I detached myself more from male bonding rituals.
Having no real father figure played a part in this behaviour as well, I'm sure.

Even today I was just chillin at my buds place watching TV, and he has a tendency to shift around and he often bumps me with his foot or something and I instinctively jerk away.
I think it's a homophobic reaction despite the fact I'm actually readjusting my sexuality towards bisexualism. Weird huh?

[CaptLex]

FtMs take note: Macho-type behaviour is for retarded males only.
Tell me something I don't know, Melanie. ;)


If only there existed guys that were able to realize for sure how retarded and self-oppressive some of that machismo really is... guys that knew a great deal about overcoming gender role indoctrination, feminism/anti-sexism, and fear of being different... Hmmm... if only...
Maybe they're already here? :raisedeyebrow:


Wow.... that was a huge digression... perhaps I should address this in the transmasculine forums under a proper thread?
Might liven up the place - it's been kinda quiet there lately. :heehee:


Other than that, as far as I know I don't feel uncomfortable around men.
Psst, Melanie, I don't bite . . . too hard. :tongueout

[Melanie85]

Maybe they're already here? :raisedeyebrow:


Where? And how could they truly know how it feels like to be an oppressed woman in a sexist world?

How could they possibly understand how sexism also invisibly harms males themselves from an objective spectator's point of view while simultaneously being a part of said social group of 'male'?



Psst, Melanie, I don't bite . . . too hard. :tongueout:

I actually don't understand that one. I think you need to go easy on the rum.

EDIT:
Ohhh silly me... didn't see the 'I'! okay *moves in closer* wow, you have small feet *giggles and runs awaaaayy* :heehee:

Say, have you been Drinking and Sailing? :naughty

And what's this Honorary Canadian by Marriage business?

[CaptLex]

Where? And how could they truly know how it feels like to be an oppressed woman in a sexist world?

How could they possibly understand how sexism also invisibly harms males themselves from an objective spectator's point of view while simultaneously being a part of said social group of 'male'?
I was talking about transmen (in general, of course), not necessarily GMs. As a man who was born female, grew up female, lived as a female and was treated as one for most of my life, I think I have a pretty good idea just how sexist society generally is, and how oppressed women are. There are lots of well-meaning people, but nothing beats actual "been there, done that" experience, right?


I actually don't understand that one. I think you need to go easy on the rum.

EDIT:
Ohhh silly me... didn't see the 'I'! okay *moves in closer* wow, you have small feet *giggles and runs awaaaayy* :heehee:
Haha . . . I think you need to go easier on the rum. And you're right, I do have small feet - that's why I'm so stealthy. :winkp:


Say, have you been Drinking and Sailing? :naughty
Mostly drinking, I leave the sailing to our Navigator, Aethen . . . which is why we're always circling the Jersey Turnpike. :heehee:


And what's this Honorary Canadian by Marriage business?
Long story short: I just got back from a honeymoon in Paris, where I eloped with the ship's Logmaster - a Canadian. It's a marriage of convenience, designed to make me an honorary Canadian citizen. Did I lose you? :tongue:

[John]

Reversing the question, I actually had quite the fear of the overly feminin, pritty-and-pink type girls when I was growing up... They where meen. Violently meen.

[Ibuki_Warpetal]

That's what I was thinking because he wants me to move in with him but wow I really hope not. He's... blech and :witsend: and :wall: and :yawn:.

He makes me want to stab babies.

[Joy Carter]

Till I was nine, I had plenty of fear of my mother's live-in. He would do things just out of meanness. I didn't know how much I feared him, till he showed up at the house a year after the split. I think he had allot to do with why, I didn't seem get along with my male peers. Since I have matured, things have gotten better. Were I used to be nervous around others in my peer group. I just felt I never measured up to what was expected of a male.

[Melanie85]

I was talking about transmen (in general, of course), not necessarily GMs. As a man who was born female, grew up female, lived as a female and was treated as one for most of my life, I think I have a pretty good idea just how sexist society generally is, and how oppressed women are. There are lots of well-meaning people, but nothing beats actual "been there, done that" experience, right?

I was being sarcastic/ironic/funny, sillihead! Amazing what a lack of emoticons can do.... 'scuse my emoticonal laziness

Just for fun, what are the biggest problems you think women and men are facing?


Haha . . . I think you need to go easier on the rum. And you're right, I do have small feet - that's why I'm so stealthy. :winkp:
Oh great, a ninja pirate!
And no I don't drink that vile and disgusting drink which turns even the most respectable men into complete scoundrels, but rum does make for flashy signal flares



Mostly drinking, I leave the sailing to our Navigator, Aethen . . . which is why we're always circling the Jersey Turnpike. :heehee:
tsk tsk tsk tsk


Long story short: I just got back from a honeymoon in Paris, where I eloped with the ship's Logmaster - a Canadian. It's a marriage of convenience, designed to make me an honorary Canadian citizen. Did I lose you? :tongue:

:eek: You're.... one of US? We're doomed! Just kidding! :heehee:
Perhaps now you could join the Sasketchewan Pirates and raid the Prairies... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvs9ctCen2E)
Yayness dual citizenship and marriages for all!

[CaptLex]

I was being sarcastic/ironic/funny, sillihead! Amazing what a lack of emoticons can do.... 'scuse my emoticonal laziness
Now you tell me :p . . . must be some of that Canadian humor. Oh sorry, "humour" - I'm still learning. :tongueout


Just for fun, what are the biggest problems you think women and men are facing?
Can you be more specific? With each other? The world in general? Due to being TG? :raisedeyebrow:


And no I don't drink that vile and disgusting drink which turns even the most respectable men into complete scoundrels, but rum does make for flashy signal flares
So that's why the rum's always gone :thinking: . . . Melanie's here, hide the rum!!! :tongue:


:eek: You're.... one of US? We're doomed! Just kidding! :heehee:

mvs9ctCen2E

Perhaps now you could join the Sasketchewan Pirates and raid the Prairies...
Yayness dual citizenship and marriages for all!
That was cool! I like how the music and the movie scenes go well together. :thumbsup: Hope you don't mind, but I changed the link a bit so it's got YouTube tags (makes it easier, I think).

Back on topic for a sec: I guess I've always had a healthy fear of oppressors, bullies, etc. and those mainly tend to be men, so I can see the connection (though I've dealt with my share of bullying/intimidating females, so I know it's not an exclusively male thing). But somehow I learned to put on a brave face whenever I felt the most fear.

I suppose I have my father to thank for that - he was the biggest bully I knew growing up and I refused to let him see me cower in his presence like everyone else did. :straightface: And now when I think back on how I foolishly refused to back down to any man in the past, it's a miracle I didn't get hurt physically - probably 'cause they saw me as a "weak" female, eh? :strugglin

[Melanie85]

Can you be more specific? With each other? The world in general? Due to being TG? :raisedeyebrow:


So that's why the rum's always gone :thinking: . . . Melanie's here, hide the rum!!! :tongue:


With each other. For example I figure men get pegged as aggressive, un-nurturing, incapable of being victims of sexism.
And women, well we all know the sexes aren't treated equally and they have a lot of things going against them but I wonder now that you get treated as a guy and used to get treated as a woman what are the biggest disadvantages/prejudices people had against you in girlmode?
(this would make an interesting thread.............)


...and you can't hide that rum forever!


I suppose I have my father to thank for that - he was the biggest bully I knew growing up and I refused to let him see me cower in his presence like everyone else did. And now when I think back on how I foolishly refused to back down to any man in the past, it's a miracle I didn't get hurt physically - probably 'cause they saw me as a "weak" female, eh?

No I'd think it was the opposite, they were looking for a weak person found a strong one.
My dad was verbally/emotionally abusive to us... one day I sort of realized he didn't deserve my respect, lost it and told him some nasty things, and stopped caring about his expectations. Now he's sort of changed a bit. Anyways he's an asshole when he lashes out impulsively... I just tune him out now

[CaptLex]

With each other. For example I figure men get pegged as aggressive, un-nurturing, incapable of being victims of sexism.
Which I disagree with, actually. I know and have known pacifist GMs and nurturing GMs who are excellent sons, spouses, fathers, etc. Just as I've met women who mistreat their spouses and relatives, take advantage of friends and have no business being mothers. I think people are just people and I don't like generalizations based on gender or anything else. :straightface:


And women, well we all know the sexes aren't treated equally and they have a lot of things going against them but I wonder now that you get treated as a guy and used to get treated as a woman what are the biggest disadvantages/prejudices people had against you in girlmode?
(this would make an interesting thread.............)
Oh good question. Well, when I lived as a female I absolutely hated being treated like a delicate china doll that would break with any physical exertion or like someone incapable of understanding complicated topics of conversation. I really lost it if men referred to me as a "girl" (rather than woman) or tried to put their hands on me. :Angry3: It's amazing how free men are with hugs, kisses, arms around the shoulder or hands on the lower back - stuff they wouldn't do to other guys. :doh:

I also resented if women assumed that I liked the same things they did or shared the same goals just 'cause they thought all women should think the same way. The limited mentality of anyone frustrates me - but how dare I upset their perfect idea of what a woman should be or want, right? :eek:

So I guess you can say stereotypes really annoy me. And I feel pretty much the same way now that I live as a guy. People still assume things about me that aren't true because that's the way guys are supposed to be. :p Some things are amusing to me, though . . . like how people would insist I enter an elevator first before and now they all jump in front of me. That's ridiculous - if someone is elderly, carries a child or is disabled they should go first, but to expect a man or woman to go first or last based solely on gender is just stupid.

I guess I'm saying I'm for equality for everyone and stereotypes create hindrances. Did I answer your question? :raisedeyebrow:


...and you can't hide that rum forever!
You don't need to see my identification . . . these aren't the droids you're looking for . . . " :tongueout


No I'd think it was the opposite, they were looking for a weak person found a strong one.
You could be right - I always assumed people didn't try to knock my block off 'cause they didn't want to hit a girl. :idontknow:


My dad was verbally/emotionally abusive to us... one day I sort of realized he didn't deserve my respect, lost it and told him some nasty things, and stopped caring about his expectations. Now he's sort of changed a bit. Anyways he's an asshole when he lashes out impulsively... I just tune him out now
Your dad sounds a lot like my dad - except mine hasn't changed. :hugs:

[MJ]

me too men tend to scare me . never did the male bonding thing .. and would find some good hiding places at break times and run home after school
and now i am full time ..well i would walk a mile out of my way to avoid guys

[Scotty]

That's what I was thinking because he wants me to move in with him but wow I really hope not. He's... blech and :witsend: and :wall: and :yawn:.

He makes me want to stab babies.

But if you meet a guy you like you won't feel that way...

Think you'll feel the real thing!!

You're hot too btw :)

[Nicole Erin]

I try to hate everyone equally.

But yeah guys are kinda gross. The thing that bothers me about men is most of them are SO insecure about their masculinity. The poor things try so hard to be a manly man and they end up acting ridiculous.

I

[Ibuki_Warpetal]

But if you meet a guy you like you won't feel that way...

Think you'll feel the real thing!!

You're hot too btw :)

You're right, I wouldn't, but I'm totally shallow in that regard. I'm pretty turned off by masculinity so "a guy I like" would need to look and act somewhat feminine, otherwise he gets my sub-zero Alaskan shoulder, lol.

Aw thanks ^.^; I know I still have a ways to go. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/|Z|Ryuken/emotes/icon_sweatdrop.gif

[Melanie85]

Which I disagree with, actually. I know and have known pacifist GMs and nurturing GMs who are excellent sons, spouses, fathers, etc. Just as I've met women who mistreat their spouses and relatives, take advantage of friends and have no business being mothers. I think people are just people and I don't like generalizations based on gender or anything else. :straightface:


Of course that's what I am saying. Stereotypes are evil.


Oh good question. Well, when I lived as a female I absolutely hated being treated like a delicate china doll that would break with any physical exertion or like someone incapable of understanding complicated topics of conversation. I really lost it if men referred to me as a "girl" (rather than woman) or tried to put their hands on me. It's amazing how free men are with hugs, kisses, arms around the shoulder or hands on the lower back - stuff they wouldn't do to other guys.

I also resented if women assumed that I liked the same things they did or shared the same goals just 'cause they thought all women should think the same way. The limited mentality of anyone frustrates me - but how dare I upset their perfect idea of what a woman should be or want, right?

So I guess you can say stereotypes really annoy me. And I feel pretty much the same way now that I live as a guy. People still assume things about me that aren't true because that's the way guys are supposed to be. Some things are amusing to me, though . . . like how people would insist I enter an elevator first before and now they all jump in front of me. That's ridiculous - if someone is elderly, carries a child or is disabled they should go first, but to expect a man or woman to go first or last based solely on gender is just stupid.

I guess I'm saying I'm for equality for everyone and stereotypes create hindrances. Did I answer your question?
Yes. I guessed the whole "women are weak, dumb"-type underestimating your intelligence. People touching you and stuff? eww... And don't they know you're just looking to steal their rum? :D


You don't need to see my identification . . . these aren't the droids you're looking for . . . "


:thumbsup: *forcegrip*


You could be right - I always assumed people didn't try to knock my block off 'cause they didn't want to hit a girl.

Actually that makes a lot of sense too. Especially if you were more feminine-looking. Hitting a girl (in public anyway) is a mortal sin. (And here's another stereotype/sexist double standard: male-on-male violence, not as bad as violence is always frowned upon but if it occurs men are supposed to take it like men)


Your dad sounds a lot like my dad - except mine hasn't changed.

Mine's in complete denial of our past (most abusers are in denial/have selective amnesia about their abuses; I've even experience this that one time I snapped - I barely remember what I said except at one point I told him something to the effect of if he died tomorrow I'd be glad... my snapping is also something that happens to some verbal abuse victims, those lucky enough to realize they don't deserve the abuse and finally stand up against their abusers), so much so some things he says sometimes piss me off and keep me from bonding with him as much