Transwomen?

[O2B Barbara]

I am curious, and absolutely no disrespect here, as to why this part of the Forum is titled Male to Female Crossdressing and on the GG portion it is listed as Transmen? Wouldn't the MTF be Transwomen. Just curious where the term originates, its menaing and why the difference?

[Angie G]

I don't know but it's a good question hun. :hugs:
Angie

[EveMarie]

Why would anyone want to segregate?
I'm still trying to learn the acronyms of all the GG and TV TG etc.I know most but some still confuse me. Are we that lazy we can't spellout what we mean?

As far as I'm concerned anyone is welcomed here, why should there be a MTF or FTM separate forum? We're all transgengered to a point, and I would like to see and here from the "other" side of the fence once in a while.

[SirTrey]

The only transmen section I am seeing is for the FtM's.....so it's transmen because that's what we are, transgendered men.....we are not gg's....unless you're referring to something else that I am not aware of because I don't know what you mean by the gg section.

[docrobbysherry]

Why would anyone want to segregate?
I'm still trying to learn the acronyms of all the GG and TV TG etc.I know most but some still confuse me. Are we that lazy we can't spellout what we mean?

As far as I'm concerned anyone is welcomed here, why should there be a MTF or FTM separate forum? We're all transgengered to a point, and I would like to see and here from the "other" side of the fence once in a while.

I think they're organised by the ORIGINAL GENDER of the individuals. MALE to female, and FEMALE to male. The two r both TG, tru. But they seem to have quite different problems.
Would u be real interested in reading threads about FTMs shopping for men's clothes in drab? Ok, maybe 1 or 2, but 20, or 50? Don't think so. Just my opinion.

[Syr_SwitchyGQ]

Transmen are Female-to-Male (FtM) transgendered men. We are not cisgendered females (GGs) and we have our own section because we want to create and read threads on subjects pertinent to being FtM. The reason the Crossdressing forum is separated from the Transsexual forum is because they are obviously two different matters altogether. The Crossdressing forum is targeted at MtFs because there are plenty of MtF crossdressers, but not very many FtM crossdressers. Any FtM crossdressers that we have hang out in the Transmasculine section and/or the Boys' Clubhouse. MtF Transsexuals tend to hang out in the Transsexual forum with the FtM Transsexuals. That is the breakdown of this particular site, for anyone too new or oblivious to know.

[O2B Barbara]

Transmen are Female-to-Male (FtM) transgendered men. QUOTE]
[QUOTE=SirTrey;1266030]The only transmen section I am seeing is for the FtM's.....so it's transmen because that's what we are, transgendered men.....we are not gg's....unless you're referring to something else that I am not aware of because I don't know what you mean by the gg section.

There is absolutely no question in my mind as to the differrent sections in this forum, I am not oblivious to the reasoning. I am also understanding of the different needs presented by the various sections. TobiasGJ, You appeared to take offence to my reference to GG. If I offended you, please accept my apology as I meant no disrespect. Like it or not, most all of the people on this earth are born either female (GG) or male (GM). A genetic female crossdresser is just that, a female that prefers mens clothing and wishes to identify as male. A male crossdresser is the same, a genetic male that wishes to identify as female to some degree. The reason behind the crossdressing may not be the same for all as there are many influences in each of our individual lives. We are all born with traits defined by DNA, this may also be an influence to the crossdressing. Some crossdressers may eventually go the route of sexual reassignment.

Please understand that my question is not intended to offend anyone on this forum or anywhere else for that matter. I am curious as to why you , the ftm, identify using the term TRANSMEN. SirTrey states that "we are not gg's", does that mean that I can say that I am not a GM? I am merely looking for an explanation why a ftm crossdresser identifies as a transgendered man (transmen) and the same line of thnking is not applied to the mtf crossdresser? While I am not absolutely positive, I think that all crossdressers have the same situation. We all are born as either genetically male or female and have a desire/need to identify as the opposite sex. While the logistical problems may differ, we all have the same problem of wanting to identify differently than as genetically born and are not openly welcomed by society in large.

At the risk of being a bore and beating a thread to death, I am merely curious as to why we refer, on this forum, to the ftm crossdresser as transmen and do not apply the same reasoning to the mtf portion, hence transwomen? Please, no offence to anyone is intended in my question.

[Emily Ann Brown]

My turn to defend my brothers in the Transmen section....few GGs are crossdressers....usually they are transgendered, whereas M2F crossdressers are not a majority of transgendered individuals.

They have the right to call their section THE BLUE MEN if it makes them happy.


Emily Ann

[Daintre]

If you would look at the board more closely you would find that there is a section for MtoF crossdressers.

and a

Transsexual Forum
This forum is for those with the external genitalia and secondary sexual characteristics of one sex, but whose personal identification and psychosocial configuration is that of the opposite sex.

The Transmen chose the name for their section because it describes exactly what they are.

[ann stef]

Transmen is an easy slang word to pick up. Adjetive to nown for women words are less common. Consider congresswomen, bowwomen at archery ranges, repairwomen, etc. Trans, meaning cross over from , does describe it well.

[Kieron Andrew]

Barbara, We were given the right to rename our section because of all the mix ups newbies get with the mtf & ftm abbreviations and always thinking we were either MtF or GGs & to us it felt we were invisible, so we played around with a few terms and came up with Transmasculine (to encompass all those that identify as FtM at whatever part of that spectrum they maybe) and Transmen as a subsection....it clearly differentiates from the two groups MtF & FtM that way, you stated that the transmen section was on the GG portion of the board, it is not, it is a section of its own, the GGs have their private forum and the loved ones section

[amber 07]

I'm sorry O2B Barbara that there are so many thin-skinned individuals here. I understood your question completely on first reading. I think its a valid question. If they want to call themselves transmen, thats fine. On the other hand, calling a crossdresser a transwoman is a valid description, as far as I'm concerned. I don't think all the individuals in either group want to go thhrough SRS, eventhough a small minority do, and hence their forum for the truly transgendered. I mean no disrespect for any group, just be a little more tolerant of well meaning questions. Amber

[Lora Olivia]

I think you have to realize 1 thing is that only a very few people born with female genitalia crossdress as male in any significant quantity. The transmen section is mainly for those that identify as male. Now the MTF section contains a large portion of people born as men that identify as male but do like to dress and portray themselves as a woman sometimes.

[Kieron Andrew]

I think you have to realize 1 thing is that only a very few people born with female genitalia crossdress as male in any significant quantity. The transmen section is mainly for those that identify as male.

Lora, thank you...you actually get it, most of the FtMs here are either living full time as male or close to as possible, or on the way to transitioning fully...there are a few that live inbetween genders but they are emcompassed within the transman/transmasculine umbella, personally i think Transwomen emcompass' all too BtW just my opinion

[SirTrey]

I don't think all the individuals in either group want to go thhrough SRS, eventhough a small minority do
Wrong....Most every guy on the board wants two things or is DOING two things....One, take testosterone (I do, most guys on the board are at least considering it, if not trying or are on it) and chest surgery (which is very expensive and a lot can't afford it....I am having it in the fall).....If there was a good surgery that would fix our equipment in the genital area, we would have it...unfortunately, bottom surgery for ftm's is not as successful as it is for mtf's.....Ergo, by and large (to a great extent) wearing a tie or putting a packy in our shorts just doesn't cut it....Hence, we are TRANSMEN, not ftm crossdressers......(with a few rare exceptions)......and any transgendered person will tell you that transmen are MEN and transwomen are WOMEN....I am not thin skinned....not at all....I am trying to educate people who don't get it.....and I hope this helps....:)

[Lora Olivia]

You're welcome bro. You know I identify as bi-gendered and i really don't care what labels anyone else puts on me and I post in any section where I feel I have something of value to say and I am allowed in:)

[Kieron Andrew]

You're welcome bro. You know I identify as bi-gendered and i really don't care what labels anyone else puts on me and I post in any section where I feel I have something of value to say and I am allowed in:)

I'll give you a label....i think you are a sweet lady...

[kerrianna]

On the other hand, calling a crossdresser a transwoman is a valid description, as far as I'm concerned.

FYI Amber, Transwoman is a term more commonly used by MTF Transexuals, that is those who identify as entirely female and usually (but not always) transition to get their bodies and social status to match.

There are some basic groups here on this site as far as categories go.

The GGs (or FABS) are natal females, not transgendered. (cisgendered)
The Transmen are FTM Transexual (although that term isn't always used by everyone because some feel it has negative connotations and history) who identify as Male.
The Transwomen (who mainly identify that way here on an individual basis, most of them fall under the Transexual or MTF Transitioning/Safe Haven forums) are MTF Transexuals (again, not all like that term) who identify as Female.
And then there is by far the largest group, the MTF Crossdressers, who run a whole range of types and motivations. The one common characteristic of them is that they DON'T identify wholey as the opposite of their birth gender. Some consider themselves transgendered, some dress for fun, some feel it opens up a side of them that is more feminine, but at some level most if not all identify as male in some fashion. There are a few who are very inbetween or refuse to identify at all.

The main thing is respecting what people say about themselves.

How did I figure out who all these people are?

I read lots. I listened to them. I tried to understand where they are coming from. It takes awhile, but if you wander around and mingle and check things out it all starts making sense.

Except the staff.

They are impossible to figure out. I think they are an alien race out to enslave the world. :worried:

[Syr_SwitchyGQ]

TobiasGJ, You appeared to take offence to my reference to GG. If I offended you, please accept my apology as I meant no disrespect. Like it or not, most all of the people on this earth are born either female (GG) or male (GM).

Very true. Most people are born into one sex or the other. However, the way we specifically use the terms GG and GM are in reference to the vast majority of people who are cisgendered and comfortable in the gender that matches their birth sex and also the biological sex they were born as. This means that anyone transgender does not fit the label GG or GM.


A genetic female crossdresser is just that, a female that prefers mens clothing and wishes to identify as male. A male crossdresser is the same, a genetic male that wishes to identify as female to some degree. The reason behind the crossdressing may not be the same for all as there are many influences in each of our individual lives. We are all born with traits defined by DNA, this may also be an influence to the crossdressing.

NO.

I am not a crossdresser. I am not comfortable with the gender that accompanies my birth sex, and I am ALSO not comfortable in being my birth sex. That makes me transsexual. Which is a completely separate thing from crossdressing. The majority of the FtMs on this board are like me: transsexual or male-identified. Very few of us would consider ourselves women who like to wear men's clothes. Thus, we refer to our section as Transmasculine/Transmen, because at least 90% of us identify as male, regardless of our birth sex.


Some crossdressers may eventually go the route of sexual reassignment.

Nope. The definition of a Crossdresser is someone who primarily identifies as the sex into which they were born, but still likes to wear the clothes of the opposite sex. Thus, anyone who feels strongly enough about being female or male that they would have SRS surgery is Transsexual, NOT a Crossdresser.

[John]

Amber, if we seem thin-skined, it's because over the last weak or so we (the transmen of this bord) have found ourselves almost constently defending both our presence here and who and what we are.

You would not call a mtf transexual a man, it's ofencive. In the same way, callin us GGs is ofencive to us. I realise Barbra's coment was made in ignorence, but it was still inopropriate.

[Kieron Andrew]

Amber, if we seem thin-skined, it's because over the last week or so we (the transmen of this bord) have found ourselves almost constently defending both our presence here and who and what we are.
Ive seen us having to defend our prescence, plus who & what we are here for as long as ive been on the forum which is over 2yrs...I too think Barbara's comment wasnt made to harm, it was to educate herself which i actually commend, ive always said a stupid question is only an unasked one...its some of the responses after her initial post that could have been said with better care though

[O2B Barbara]

I feel compelled to make a last reply, at least on my part, to all the previous comments made to my original post. It is a bit difficult as I would like to address each and every post made to this thread. This would be a rather long reply and not totally positive.

In keeping with the original intent of my post I will simply say Thank You to all the positive and constructive comments.

[CaptLex]

It was a valid question, Barbara. Our section used to be called FtM Crossdressing once (and anyone who joined after it was changed wouldn't know that), but we felt that it wasn't an accurate representation of our group so we asked to have it changed.

The large majority of us don't consider ourselves female, and "transmasculine" means someone who is born female-bodied but feels that the term "female" doesn't accurately or entirely defines them. Not all FtMs are transsexual, but there are very few that are actual crossdressers. That's why the difference between our two sections.

As for comments of our being thin-skinned and not tolerant of questions (and this is not meant for you, Barbara) - it comes from the constant barrage of insensitive remarks we get day in and day out. As I said, yours was a valid question and we welcome questions from people who are really interested in learning, but we've definitely grown a bit defensive due to comments and questions from others who speak without thinking.

So if we jump to defend ourselves, then we need for others to be tolerant of us too - it works both ways.