Why Can People Not Be Honest On Here?

[Vicky_Scot]

I know I will upset a few good number of people on here, but I for one speak my mind and if that is not your cup of tea then I do not apologise. If you want me to sugar coat my views or responses to post then sorry that won't happen.

I certainly see it on most forums regarding the TG community but it seems prevalent on here.

A poster posts a pic of themself and asks what other forum members think.

Why do so many people say "you look great" or "you are hot" or "you pass" etc etc when it is obviously not the case. They look terrible but still people persist telling them the above which IMO is actually does more harm than telling them they look terrible or they need to look at changing this or that aspect of their dressing.

What on earth is the achievment in telling someone a lie and have them believe they look great and or they can pass. The only thing that will achieve is that person thinking everything is great and they go out and get abuse, insults etc because they look terrible.

If you really want to help someone, tell them the truth............they deserve that.

So before you unleash your response, at least take a few minutes and think about what I am saying and maybe your response will be different.

Xx Vicky xX

[Christine Kelly]

I agree with you to an extent.
Those I do not find attractive, I just do not comment on.
But, still, why should the fact that they are not attractive to
me, deter them from going out?
Besides,I have seen plenty of women out there wearing clothes that, all I could say is: 'What the hell was she thinking when she got dressed this morning?'
I believe that all of us should have the opportunity to have a little fun at least once in our lives. And if going out or being dressed gives you a thrill that you have been dreaming about all your life, then I say: more power to ya!:)

[LACD]

I agree with Skirt Lover and the other post. I know I will never be able to pass as a woman, but I still love to dress. I won't post a picture and ask for others opinions for just the reasons Skirt Lover mentioned. I have someone here at home whose opinions matter very much to me. My wife helps me shop and is now starting to help me with make-up. She used to be ambivalent about make-up, but now she is starting to like it almost as much as I do. I guess what I am saying is that I have a really good critic right here at home. I hope one day to get the courage to go out fully dressed before I leave this world.

[veronicagirl]

....which is why I don't have a picture here. I know what I appear as. My dressing is personal and just for me. It's the softness of some items, the tightness of others, the bouncing of others. It's the scent of perfume, lipstick on my coffee mug, the heaviness of dangle earrings and attempting to do things with long fingernails. I am, who I am, and that won't change. I won't tell anyone they look like a man in a dress. And for those who really look sensual and feminine..... I'm jealous.

[bEEb]

Well put sis. Those are the feelings exactly.

[JackieS]

Though I agree that it does a disservice when you aren't candid, it is important to remember that everyone has their own tastes and styles. Being critical of someone for their choices in clothes is not helpful. Constructive criticism is. For example, if you suggest a hair style that might be more flattering to a person's face shape, or tips on improving make-up techniques, that would be welcomed by everyone, I am sure.

Just telling someone they look terrible, will only get them upset and less likely to experiment in the future.

[Sophia KT]

To be frank, I don't much care if I 'pass' as anything other than a transvestite. To be the best tranny I can be is my aim; the world can make it's own mind up but needn't bother telling me about it.

You are right though, we shouldn't lie to each other. But if we want to get on we might have to oil the wheels a bit. In any case you might like someone and become blind to their defects [the eye of the beholder, etc].

Praps well meaning encouragement should be treated as that only.

Sophia XX

[deja true]

Yeah, Lover, I gotta agree with the rest, especially JackieS.

Constructive criticism is the best thing we can do for others.

But public humiliation will only make an unsure person feel worse and maybe hurt worse than it should.

I think a lot of deeper criticism can go on, but it might be best if it were in PMs.

Face it, honey...We all started out as dogs, right?

But a few kind words helped us keep on to the goal. And that's a goal that none of us will ever really reach to our ultimate satisfaction, I think.

Bless you for your candor, but don't forget the thing about catching more flies with honey than vinegar. M..kay?

[Tamara Croft]

Don't you think some people have enough crap in their lives without having to come here and read how 'honest' you've all been how they look? Let's get real shall we eh? People don't come here to be told they look like crap, they come here to share, to make new friends, to have a laugh etc... and so what if some don't dress up to your standards, or have their makeup perfect, who are you to come here and tell us we shouldn't be telling them they look great? I think you are out of line and I love the way you posted this then logged off.... I'll tell you straight, you're a bloody coward doing that :Angry3:

[Daintre]

If you have some constructive criticism to make and it has been asked for, then be honest and give it. I have posted only a few pictures of myself because I know what I look like. We are asked to share our femme selves with our fellow members, I for one would never pass, but I would rather have someone tell me what I am doing wrong in a friendly way rather than them being negative.

[TGMarla]

The first time I ever posted any pics here, I was told by many of the ladies here that I was pretty. Let me tell you, that felt good. I'd never been told by anyone before ever that I was pretty. They migt have been lying through their teeth, but it made me feel good in a way that I had never felt before.

I do okay in my pics. I know that. But polish it up as I may, I am still always going to look, for the most part, like a guy dressed up like a woman, nothing more. You can tell me I pass all you want to, but the truth is, were I to go out walking, everyone would see a guy in a dress. It's just the way it is. But at lest I can post my pics here, and a handful of people will be kind enough to tell me I'm pretty. And that means a lot to me, because it's not going to happen otherwise.

So to those of you who have been nice enough to "lie" to me, thank you.

[Littlej10]

I think we all know what we look like and can lie to ourselves a little. Being what we are is difficult enough and everyone who comes here and exposes themselves to our appraisal should be given encouragement to continue with the life and gentle guidance from those more experienced to improve their pleasure. It can be difficult and lonely "out there" and although simple over emphasised comments aren't really helpful with the posters image they can give a great deal of pleasure and are unlikely to send a total "dog" out on a raving exhibitionist spree.

[Kate Simmons]

To be honest, it's a matter of perspective to me. I try to glean what a person is saying from the context. It makes me feel good when folks have the courage to post to begin with. We come here to share our feelings and adventures with like minded folks. If I have constructive advice, I usually send it by PM. Really, I do not see "pretty" or "ugly" per se but the beauty of the person's soul that shines through, which to me is the most important thing.

[GypsyKaren]

This topic comes up every now and then, and I can never understand why. Does it really bother you this much that people are trying to be nice or kind to someone else? What's the big deal? Try worrying about your own self and what you say to people, how others choose to answer a question is none of your concern.

Karen Starlene :star:

[Deborah Jane]

The first time I ever posted any pics here, I was told by many of the ladies here that I was pretty. Let me tell you, that felt good. I'd never been told by anyone before ever that I was pretty. They migt have been lying through their teeth, but it made me feel good in a way that I had never felt before.

I do okay in my pics. I know that. But polish it up as I may, I am still always going to look, for the most part, like a guy dressed up like a woman, nothing more. You can tell me I pass all you want to, but the truth is, were I to go out walking, everyone would see a guy in a dress. It's just the way it is. But at lest I can post my pics here, and a handful of people will be kind enough to tell me I'm pretty. And that means a lot to me, because it's not going to happen otherwise.

So to those of you who have been nice enough to "lie" to me, thank you.

Nicely said Marla...
Thats exactly how i feel, i just didn,t know how to say it.

[Ayame]

There are many good points in the thread but how I feel is that these forums are like a support group. A lot of people come here to kill time however we all came here for the same reason at first.

Telling someone they look ugly is not a kind thing to do and this is coming from an arrogant kid who has had posts about what he does not like. I for one would never have the balls to make a post regarding ones looks. However if your gonna say anything just tell them something like "I love that shirt but you would look so much hotter with black eyeliner :daydreaming:" Right there I said something that would not of been a lie that sounded nice and would of gave the person a tip in a positive way.

These forums attract all sorts of people from all sorts of backgrounds and reasons for cross dressing. It really comes down to we are each others support.

[TSchapes]

I understand what you are saying. I think it depends on the poster and how they ask for help. If they want specifics I have no problem telling them. I try and take a mentoring type of role. Plus, people may take a look at my avatar and pictures and say, my god why is she advising me, she's hideous, not my style or age. I like to build from one's strengths and tell them how they may add to what they are doing. My experience is limited to indoors and my own photo shoots. I have not been out in public for some 20 odd years. So for me to advise on what would "pass" and what would not "pass" is a guess on my part.

Also keep in mind, that if I were one of the real lookers on this board, and came down hard on some of these girls, it would make me look so stuck on myself that people would have me kicked off.

In addition, I don't think people take the time to check a person's past posts to see where they may be coming from before commenting on them.

I believe if we come from a point of view that when we help the other girls on this board we help ourselves. Because if we attack the people here, it looks like we're afraid of how they reflect on us. And personally, I can only be responsible for myself and how I look and act.

Here's my response to one of the girls on the board. I stand by everything I said, and I would love to take this gal under my wing and get her looking hot like I know she could be.

My Post (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79485)

Here to help, Tracy

[Suzy Harrison]

Sometimes all someone may be asking for (and needs) is some encouragement ~ and armed with that they can progess a little further.

While it doesn't help to say someone looks fantastic if they really don't, it's better to offer some encouraging advice by mentioning the good points and also to give encouragement to rectify any short comings.


:hugs:Suzy

[TxKimberly]

I'm with Suzy and Tamara,

People don't come here to get depressed, they come here for support and encouragement. If they ask "How do I look?" I think it is appropriate to try and find something positive to say. Now if they ask for advice, and I have something reasonably intelligent to say, I'll offer it. Something like "Does this look good on me?" or "Should I do this or that?"

[battybattybats]

Firstly there is always room for diplomacy, being blunt isn't necessarily more honest, sometimes it's just being cruel. The exact same message can be conveyed tactfully, constructively rather than destructively.

And another reason?

Look at the Tg suicide rate! lots of emotionally vulnerable people desperate for acceptance, isolated, lonely, feeling rejected, filled with inner tensions.

There is no merit in crushing fragile people, especially when such devestating consequences could follow.

People can still look great when they aren't passing. And what do women expect when they ask 'does my bum look big in this?'

You don't have to honestly say yes or dishonestly say no, you can always say something like 'that other piece works better on you'. Still true, not ego crushing.

Applying the same consideration to CDs isn't dishonest, just conscientious.

[tamarav]

Everyday in real life women (genetic, actual, born that way, etc.) come to see me and ask how they can look better. My job is to make a professional assessment that won't totally destroy their ego but be honest enough to think about some changes.

The same thing happens when one of my sisters (from this forum or local club, a TV, CD, TS, whatever label they assign themselves) and ask me the same question in a different way. "Do you think I look pretty (beautiful, sexy)?" Most can tell by the amount of time that I take to answer their question what I and my GG co-workers think, it is obvious we are either trying to be diplomatic or we can't think of a single positive thing to say. (Not in every case but in a few) Many times if I am dumbstruck one of my co-workers will jump in with a "wow, that is a nice dress, or those boots are cool".

All humans (myself included) seem to see things different when we look in the mirror. We are all looking for verification of what we see and are merely asking if our own view is realistic.

I always make positive remarks on the pictures that our sisters post simply because of the unbelievable size of their gonads to even post pictures. How many of us would never even think of posting? I for one appreciate seeing how others approach their appearance and their presentation, just as I do for every GG that comes in the salon. At least they are making an effort to improve and we (I) are there to be supportive and honest without destroying them.

Some GG have come into the salon looking to be "made over" to look like a woman because they do not see themselves as an attractive or desirable woman. Most are moldable and they feel that the end product is a positive, just as our sisters must feel. I certainly look for approval of every change I make because I don't want to go backward and I want to keep improving. How can you learn without making mistakes?

Your sis,

Tami

[Jenny Beth]

I've seen this topic pop up a few times over the years and isn't it odd that those who are most critical of how someone looks don't have the courage to post photos of themselves?

Sorry but I'm just being honest....:Angry3:

[Deborah Jane]

[QUOTE=Jenny Beth;1267359]I've seen this topic pop up a few times over the years and isn't it odd that those who are most critical of how someone looks don't have the courage to post photos of themselves? ...:Angry3/QUOTE]

Yeah i,ve noticed that too...:Angry3:
Bloody cowards thats why
After what they say, they don,t have the courage to be judged themselves!!!

[Nicole Erin]

As people know, a photo may not be accurate anyways.

I tend to think that some of the ones who pass overly well might have altered the photos. Part of it maybe jealousy but also, if someone passes THAT well, they are probably not going to risk that by posting photos on CD/TS sites where basically anyone can see...

When I see a photo of a CD/TS who doesn't look that great, I always think "Well at least she is honest".

[Tommie T.]

I so wish that I could pass and am envious of those of you that can and truly are beautiful women-but I realize that so much of being TG and a cd is in our minds that I accept the reality of it.In my mind when dressed I AM A Woman and this fulfills a need that I don't understand but have learned to accept.Whether or not someone else thinks I look good is of little importance.Most of the gurls on this site really seem to be caring and understanding and that is good enough for me.

[angelfire]

Personally, I don't believe lying is the best option, but at the same time I wouldn't want to hurt someone. If I have nothing positive to say, I simply won't say anything. No lying, and no harm done.

Or, alternatively, I will try to find something positive to say. Perhaps they are not passable, but they may have a great figure, or great legs, or did a fantastic job on their make-up. I will try to focus on saying something positive. I don't want to compromise my morals by lying, but at the same time, I am not out to discourage or insult anyone, since that accomplishes nothing. I am still fairly inexperienced, so I generally don't have any advice to give anyway.

[suspender]

I took the few minutes you asked for and tend to agree with most. This site is for escapism for many. Support and empathy are paramount. As one adminstrator has said, you took off pretty quickly after posting, which indicates you didnt want to see the immediate response. What does this suggest if you openly admit that the post isnt most peoples' cup of tea? Who cares what people look like (and most look very good)? It is their feelings that means most to them. Step back for a minute yourself and ask; how does what I am posting make others feel? Are you a researcher, and if not, if it means that much, put some imagery of yourself up front, you never know - someone may actually say you look ok. This community is about acceptance of each other where (IMO in your words), looks shouldnt play a big part.

[TxKimberly]

. . . isn't it odd that those who are most critical of how someone looks don't have the courage to post photos of themselves? . . .


Bloody cowards thats why . . .

All right ladies, y'all are running the risk of being Catty here. Remember, she didn't slam anyone, she asked an honest and valid question. She did not belittle or put herself above others, she just asked if we might be doing them a disservice by not being blunt.

Hmmm . . . you know I spend so damn much time here these days I oughtta ask for a moderator job! lol

[sandra-leigh]

I know I will upset a few good number of people on here, but I for one speak my mind and if that is not your cup of tea then I do not apologise. If you want me to sugar coat my views or responses to post then sorry that won't happen.


Oh, look, someone who was too lazy or thoughtless to look through past postings to find the thread that this topic was covered in detail about a month ago. Or maybe the problem was that that previous thread wasn't "*me* *me* *me*" enough and nothing else would do but to start her own new thread instead of following up on someone else's. How gauche. I might wonder whether gauche is typical for her, but her posting doesn't have enough originality or eloquence to motivate me to bother to take even a few minutes to review her previous postings.

... Just speaking my mind, and if that isn't your cup of tea, then dry those tears, dearie, and remember that we would be doing you no kindness by softening the truth.

[Raquel June]

I know I will upset a few good number of people on here, but I for one speak my mind and if that is not your cup of tea then I do not apologise.

Comments like this are usually a sign that you're an a__hole. A lot of people talk like that -- "Hey, I just tell the truth. Some people can't handle it." The truth is that you're rude and offensive. When people react badly to you, it's not because they "can't handle" how "honest" you are. It's because you're caustic. So when someone starts a conversation that way, I'm prepared to ignore them.





If you want me to sugar coat my views or responses to post then sorry that won't happen.

...

Why do so many people say "you look great" or "you are hot" or "you pass" etc etc when it is obviously not the case. They look terrible but still people persist telling them the above which IMO is actually does more harm than telling them they look terrible or they need to look at changing this or that aspect of their dressing.

I see what you're getting at and I agree with you, but it's not quite that bad. When someone posts pics and says, "What do you think?" about half the time you'll get at least one extremely honest and somewhat negative response.

You have to read between the lines, too. Look at those positive responses. How many of them are really saying, "You look great," or, "You look hot"? Usually when people post bad pics, the responses are more like, "Looks like you had fun!" or, "Nice smile!" or, "Love the skirt!" Some of those comments strike me as patronizing, and they would make me feel at least as bad as if someone just said, "Ouch! You've got some stuff to work on!"




What on earth is the achievment in telling someone a lie and have them believe they look great and or they can pass. The only thing that will achieve is that person thinking everything is great and they go out and get abuse, insults etc because they look terrible.

Well, that's true ... but let's step back a second. Think of the hottest girls on this board. How many of them could really pass? You don't know because you haven't seen them in person. You haven't seen them walking around. You haven't heard them talk. There are a lot of girls who do look great, but would still usually get read very quickly if only because they're 6 feet tall ... people will notice them, then on closer inspection will see that they take bigger steps, have bigger hands, etc.

I just don't think many people honestly think they pass, so you're not going to hurt someone telling them that (although I wouldn't lie to someone about it).



Back to the heart of your post, though... I do wish more people would be more honest with there responses. People say that with constructive criticism you should say something positive, then say one negative thing in a nice way, then come up with something else positive. I don't think that's really necessary. If someone's telling you to be honest with them and tell them what you think, you should be totally honest. You should still say things in a nice way, though. And it does hurt if someone tears you down without saying a single positive thing, so you've gotta find something encouraging to say.




To be frank, I don't much care if I 'pass' as anything other than a transvestite. To be the best tranny I can be is my aim

That's pretty much how I feel. I think that's how a lot of people feel, actually. If everybody was just trying to pass, they'd all be wearing fairly boring clothes.



I agree with most of what everybody's saying here, esp. TGMarla and Batty.




I've seen this topic pop up a few times over the years and isn't it odd that those who are most critical of how someone looks don't have the courage to post photos of themselves?

Sorry but I'm just being honest....:Angry3:

Well, it does kinda seem like she's saying, "You all look terrible! Look at me! I know I look terrible so I don't post any pics!" That's a pretty angry and depressing place to be.

But I don't think that's totally true. I think she has a legitimate point and was just lacking tact. I've found it a little frustrating at times; I'll basically say, "Hey, I know I look terrible! Does anybody have any advice to help me out?" and it can be hard to get honest feedback when you really want it.

[Kimberleighann]

I think that every one needs to be honest, but they need to remember that you can be nice even when they have some thing negative to say. It took me a long time to go full time. I had a lot of people tell me that I would pass. But many more told me that I would never pass. I have been living full time for a little over 7 years and have not worried about it any more. I have seen many GG's that look more like men then some of the members. I have seen members that make me feel like a man all over again. In the end it matters what you think about your self. But every one needs to be honest but gentle with their coments.

Kimberleigh Ann

[Jenny Beth]

All right ladies, y'all are running the risk of being Catty here. Remember, she didn't slam anyone, she asked an honest and valid question. She did not belittle or put herself above others, she just asked if we might be doing them a disservice by not being blunt.

Hmmm . . . you know I spend so damn much time here these days I oughtta ask for a moderator job! lol



I agree she didn't slam anyone in particular. The point I'm trying to make is she has no idea what it's like for those of us who have posted pics. The majority of us know we don't look like fashion models but beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If someone says you look good even with a five o'clock shadow then one has to believe their words came from heart.

[Joy Carter]

All right ladies, y'all are running the risk of being Catty here. Remember, she didn't slam anyone, she asked an honest and valid question. She did not belittle or put herself above others, she just asked if we might be doing them a disservice by not being blunt.

Hmmm . . . you know I spend so damn much time here these days I oughtta ask for a moderator job! lol

Yeah, I vote to make Kimberly # one moderator. :D

[Julie York]

Yeah, I vote to make Kimberly # one moderator. :D


Oh god not someone else I have to be nice to.

[sandra-leigh]

You have to read between the lines, too. Look at those positive responses. How many of them are really saying, "You look great," or, "You look hot"? Usually when people post bad pics, the responses are more like, "Looks like you had fun!" or, "Nice smile!" or, "Love the skirt!"


LOL. In my case, people seem to adopt the "discretion is the better part of valour" approach, and post few responses at all. If I had more shame, I would read through those lack of lines. But I dress for myself, not for pictures, and if y'all have crushed my dreams of being immediately recognized as the next Naomi Campbell :daydreaming:, then I comfort myself by remembering that Naomi has a boat-load of problems I wouldn't wish on a dog.

[Rachel Morley]

Why do so many people say "you look great" or "you are hot" or "you pass" etc etc when it is obviously not the case. They look terrible but still people persist telling them the above which IMO is actually does more harm than telling them they look terrible or they need to look at changing this or that aspect of their dressing.
This forum is supposed to be about "support" not bashing people for not having a "good look". There are people on here who look absolutely awesome and there are people who do not. What is the point in saying something not nice about how a person looks? Wouldn't it be better to show some feminine qualities of compassion, encouragement, and nurturing and try to say something supportive? When you are trying to look and feel your prettiest, no woman likes to be told her bum looks big in this ... or even worse that she looks like crap from her sisters on a support forum. CDs are no different.

[Celeste]

I think if someone is a work in progress it would be rather cold to shatter that with something crippling.There is a way to be nice and still get your point across it just takes a little more time and tact.Who's is it ,to be judge,jury and executioner anyway.Wouldn't it be horrible to think that you had discouraged someone in such a way that they wouldn't try harder, or even ever again.

[Claire3]

Ive had so much support from you girls sice i joined,its been amazing.I used to phone the samaritans,a voluntary organisation to help the suicidal and people with real life problems.Ive posted several pics,aprehensively,worried that someone would say im ugly,i dont think i am.Im happy with Claire.I wont pass out on the street,i will to me at home.Guess at least ive gained the courage to submit a pic.Thankyou.For the threadbearer,forget your name and avatar:Angry3:

[TSchapes]

Wouldn't it be better to show some feminine qualities of compassion, encouragement, and nurturing and try to say something supportive?

One of the most endearing thing about women is their need for inclusion, that everybody is on the same team.

Thank you Rachel.

Love, Tracy

[Sandra]

Constructive criticism never hurt anyone eg " this might look a bit better" " or how about trying this, to see how it looks"

I don't think it's right to say " omg you look awful" or " well you could do better"

A lot of people post pics here to gain confidence and slamming them down will do know good.

[Eugenie]

Well...

Receiving messages of encouragement is really nice. But when one reads so many similar messages about pictures that are indeed showing dramatically tragic images of some who obviously would need son advice and support, then it become difficult to believe the compliments that are sent on the picture galery commentaries.

One other problem with such overly positive messages, if one believes them, is that they are really morale boosters... When the messages are justified, this isn't a problem. But when, out of lack of courage, no one was able to tell a sister that she needs to "slightly modify her style", that sister may be at risk to go out in public in confidence and face an even more cruel reality check than if it had been done in a friendly environment such as crossdressers.com... I know that I have personnaly chickened out several times when seeing a really terrible picture and prefered to abstain from making a comment.

It doesn't mean that comments have to be nasty ones... There should be ways to gently tell that yes we recognize that this person is doing a good attempt but that she isn't there yet. Saying "Well, you know, I've been there too... You have a good start, but there are things that would put you into trouble in the way you dres/makeup yourself..."

I am sure many of us here seek advice in order to improve their feminine look.

We are looking for gentle but honest comments, comments that will enable us to make progress in our overall "femme" look.

:hugs:
Eugenie

[trannie T]

I wish someone out there would lie through their teeth and say how good I look. The kindest words I've received so far is one post saying that I look pretty nice . . . for a muskox.

[Julie York]

The thing to bear in mind is that no-one posts a picture without either trying hard to look their best, editing 100 bad photos to pick out the one they dare post, or they're very inexperienced and genuinely making an effort even if it isn't very good.

They may look terrible or down right embarrassing, but even I, with my rather satirical approach wouldn't knock someone for being bad at looking like a woman (unless I thought they were taking the piss). It's not an easy trick to pull off, after all.

Having said that, it is unkind to be gushing and over enthusiastic about the possibility of being taken seriously and genuinely going unnoticed in the real world. It could lead that person into a very horrible situation.


Trannie T. Your avatar looks like a spirit with joy in its soul.

[Raquel June]

I wish someone out there would lie through their teeth and say how good I look. The kindest words I've received so far is one post saying that I look pretty nice . . . for a muskox.

I personally called you "cute" and "the best looking 60-year-old CD I've seen."

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1164345&postcount=8

BUSTED!
:tongueout

[MentalMercury]

I know I'm throwing a twig in the fire at this point but...

We are aware of what constructive criticism is, but you could have let us know how you feel without telling us that you think some of us look terrible. Practice what you preach right?

Maybe if a CD biker gang rolls through here you can go join that if you want to go be one bad gal and 'tell it stright'

[Vicky_Scot]

Don't you think some people have enough crap in their lives without having to come here and read how 'honest' you've all been how they look? Let's get real shall we eh? People don't come here to be told they look like crap, they come here to share, to make new friends, to have a laugh etc... and so what if some don't dress up to your standards, or have their makeup perfect, who are you to come here and tell us we shouldn't be telling them they look great? I think you are out of line and I love the way you posted this then logged off.... I'll tell you straight, you're a bloody coward doing that :Angry3:


Well lets see, I am a coward..........whatever.

I posted my OP then had to go out but if you see that as being cowardly then you have that choice.

I am not coming on here to tell anyone anything. I asked the question

Why Can People Not Be Honest On Here?

Note the word why.


I've seen this topic pop up a few times over the years and isn't it odd that those who are most critical of how someone looks don't have the courage to post photos of themselves?

Sorry but I'm just being honest....:Angry3:

Sorry to dissappoint but my pic was up in my avatar for months and months and please tell me why you state I am most critical. And if you took the time to check the link in my signature you could see my picture so I am not hiding away as you suggest.


Oh, look, someone who was too lazy or thoughtless to look through past postings to find the thread that this topic was covered in detail about a month ago. Or maybe the problem was that that previous thread wasn't "*me* *me* *me*" enough and nothing else would do but to start her own new thread instead of following up on someone else's. How gauche. I might wonder whether gauche is typical for her, but her posting doesn't have enough originality or eloquence to motivate me to bother to take even a few minutes to review her previous postings.

... Just speaking my mind, and if that isn't your cup of tea, then dry those tears, dearie, and remember that we would be doing you no kindness by softening the truth.

So you go and check to see if the topic you were going to post about was covered a month a go.........................I do not think so girlfriend.

Don't flatter yourself dearie, I do not think I will be wasting any tears over your response.

At the end of the day I asked a question and got a response. Most think I am cruel, insensitive, a coward, lazy, offensive etc etc etc but I would rather have that than no response at all.

But I still find it scary that so many on here still think that misleading, deceiving and lieing to someone about how they look is more acceptable than telling them the truth.

BTW if you read my post I did mention being helpful



Why do so many people say "you look great" or "you are hot" or "you pass" etc etc when it is obviously not the case. They look terrible but still people persist telling them the above which IMO is actually does more harm than telling them they look terrible or they need to look at changing this or that aspect of their dressing.


Well I better get off now or is that being cowardly..............:heehee:

[jessicapetite]

its nice to express yourself as you want.

i just want to feeel as feminine as possible.

Long hair, nice feminine curves, high heal schoes, long silky pink skirt, make-up, beautiful long hair, nail varnish, masacra, in short....

I just want to feel and be a girl ... nice feminine shape....

[Nicole Erin]

There is a major flaw with what you said here -


At the end of the day I asked a question and got a response.

OK, first of all, it was at 5:45 AM when you made this post so it was the beginning of the day. See -
http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1267207&postcount=1

Now personally, I am not bothered by the fact that you asked why some are not honest, but it was not at the end of the day....

:heehee:

[Vicky_Scot]

There is a major flaw with what you said here -



OK, first of all, it was at 5:45 AM when you made this post so it was the beginning of the day. See -
http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1267207&postcount=1

Now personally, I am not bothered by the fact that you asked why some are not honest, but it was not at the end of the day....

:heehee:

I made my original post at 12.45pm UK time.

Oh "At the end of the day" is just a figure of speech.

Good try but no cigar.

[sandra-leigh]

So you go and check to see if the topic you were going to post about was covered a month a go.........................I do not think so girlfriend.


The topic has come up and been dealt with at length several times. You have been a member since mid 2006; unless you are a hunt-and-peck reader of a few random postings here and there, and not bothering to show up for 5 months at a time, it would have been difficult to miss.

And, by the way, Yes, when I have specific questions, I do use the forum search and have a look at what has transpired before. I do my research -- to the point where my boss has told me a number of times to be less thorough.


At the end of the day I asked a question and got a response. Most think I am cruel, insensitive, a coward, lazy, offensive etc etc etc but I would rather have that than no response at all.

Posting with the primary interest of provoking a response has a name in online communities. That name is "Troll".

[Sophia KT]

I'm no mod. [in fact I'm quite new] but this is getting a little tense.

I think we should pat ourselves on the back for the torrent of supportive feelings and have done with it.

It was a good point and brought out the best in people.

:daydreaming:
Sophia XX

[DemonicDaughter]

I had a conversation a short while ago with someone on this forum. They sent me pictures of themselves. They looked okay, not my taste but fine. Would I say they'd "pass" no. And they didn't ask me if I thought they would. If they had, I would have been politely honest.

Here's the funny thing. They honestly feel that they are the one's who should be giving advice to other CDers because "so many need help". But to me, a GG, I would have spotted them a mile away. Why? Because they still needed a lot of help too.

"Honesty" coming from someone who isn't even honest with themselves is only going to lead to hurt feelings and bad tempers.

Besides... when I HAVE seen someone be honest on here, I often read the original poster defending themselves. Seems some people don't really want honesty.

[KateSpade83]

I do like honesty, and everyone's taste in clothes is different and I realize some people just don't like the stuff you buy. So in my picture posts, I put polls and I always give the option for - "I don't like your outfit." And it doesn't hurt me one bit that people don't like my outfit. Rather, I get important feedback from honest polling about the desirability of my outfits, and it's real good to know how people liked my expensive St John outfits! And then I wanna know if people think my face is ugly, because no one has ever said I was beautiful! - But I can handle that because I think I'm not photogenic and I look great in real life to pass shopping as a woman 95% of the time. And men have given me looks! - So I wear a ring!

Their was a member who went out for the first time, then posted his outfit and asked for honest opinions. And it was really good to rip him apart for the worst top I've ever seen, plus a terrible wig! In this case, real good honest criticism really helps!

And then often I see pic threads were some people just wear terrible or boring outfits and get a lot of positive comments. And I just wanna say the outfit stinks. - What would moderators do to that? Best I did was say it's not my style. And then it makes me wonder why some member post themselves in skirt suit not as good as mine but get way more positive feedback. I'm the biggest skirt suit lover here and I've made a big collection of the best skirt suits, especially high end St John ones!

[jessielee]

dear Vicky,
enjoying opening up the proverbial can of worms, eh?
yes, it has been covered before. but good discourse can always keep old topics lively! but is it civil? uplifting? or simply honest as another's expense?
brutally? pridefully?
have enjoyed reading responses where completely honest but not all encompassing tact is espoused.
please, friends, say the truth to each other here. but why be hurtful?
some have said "don't say she passes if she doesn't, best to just remain silent;" my usual tactic. however, struggling souls often really want to know if they have a chance of ever looking beautiful.
first, yes, you do
but not in a universal way perhaps.
i can't pass.
maybe someday, know what areas need to be worked on.
and many of you can; God bless you!
and the rest of us are somewhere in between
kind of like GGs regarding modern or popular standards of beauty.
some things can be worked on and some just can't, no question of "femininity" or passing here.
we are all so different.
and we share so much.
girls, please, be nice to each other,
and,
be honest without being mean.
we are all works in progress.
it is a good place for being humble.
call me idealistic,
jessie

[docrobbysherry]

There r some closet dressers here, like me. Many who will NEVER go out dressed. Our ONLY feedback is from THIS WEBSITE!
My female persona is all smoke and mirrors, but that's who I am as a CD.

I'm admitting I'm a coward. I don't go out, and I haven't posted any pics without masks.

THE BRAVE GURLS, WHO DO POST PICS OF MEN IN DRESSES HERE, SHOULD BE REWARDED, not punished! Bless their courage and forthriteness!

IF U CAN'T SAY SOMETHING NICE, DON"T SAY ANYTHING AT ALL!

[Joy Carter]

I think Vicky's thread is right on. We should give advice where it's due, and compliment where it's appropriate. She's said nothing wrong.

[Samantha B L]

I understand Vicky's thinking in that you shouldn't lie and also that there are times when pretending that you don't notice what's a little awkward about the emporor/empress's new clothes can get tiresome. And that goes for lots of things in life in general. But I also think that this forum is a place for all of the members and not just a place for those who look like fashion models. Of course,there's nothing the matter with looking like a fashion model. But for those of us who don't look like fashion models but still manage to look just fine,I think the fair and reasonable thing is to take an easy angle with eachother in critiquing the pics and be freindly and easygoing.

Like I said there's nothing wrong with looking like a fashion model. I don't look like one but I'm gonna keep tryin'. But in apraising the pictures that people submit to the forum we should be apreciative and not too blunt and harsh. If things got too brash there would be lots of bitter arguments all over the forum and the forum would lose it's popularity

[Jodie_Lynn]

Yeah, Lover, I gotta agree with the rest, especially JackieS.

Constructive criticism is the best thing we can do for others.

But public humiliation will only make an unsure person feel worse and maybe hurt worse than it should.

I think a lot of deeper criticism can go on, but it might be best if it were in PMs.

Face it, honey...We all started out as dogs, right?

But a few kind words helped us keep on to the goal. And that's a goal that none of us will ever really reach to our ultimate satisfaction, I think.

Bless you for your candor, but don't forget the thing about catching more flies with honey than vinegar. M..kay?

Bravo!

While I can agree that honesty is the best policy, I don't think folk here need to be verbally slammed.
That being said, if I knew someone in R/L, and they asked my opinion of their appearance before they were to head out on the town, I might find a way to perhaps dissuade them, if I thought that they might risk being made fool of in public.

Emotions are very tricky: One's "honest opinion", might be very hurtful to someone else.

[victoriamwilliams1]

I agree with you, I think we are afraid to hurt ones feelings and I think this is also a trait of femininity that eve some GG's will say you look great when in reality they think you look bad. Even with men this too exist. It is a new problem being we are now in a litigation/P.C. society and people are afraid to speak there minds openly.

I know at times I want to say things like, "You go out the house like that", "Its called a razor or layer your hose with those legs" and other thoughts are "They call them long skirts! Get one today"

Believe it or not I and my wife who does not know of the fem me say things like this even about GG's we see in public.

[Lora Olivia]

I am going to apologize to everyone, including you Kate, in advance for this post but I am making a point of this and your post kinda got my cat claws out.

Point is Beauty is really on the inside. No one is perfect. To each his own and opinions are like a***holes most everyone has one.


And it was really good to rip him apart for the worst top I've ever seen, plus a terrible wig! In this case, real good honest criticism really helps!!

So then for me to say, "that lipstick makes your face look like a monkey's butt and for god sakes kill half the wooly worms that are riding on your brows," would be ok?


And then it makes me wonder why some member post themselves in skirt suit not as good as mine but get way more positive feedback. I'm the biggest skirt suit lover here and I've made a big collection of the best skirt suits, especially high end St John ones!

Its not about the money you spend on the clothes Kate, it is the person in them that counts.

[sissystephanie]

I have seen some pictures on this Forum of what I would consider to be pretty girls. Are they real, how do I know? Photoshop, or any other photo editing program, can work wonders.

But real or not, it is not for me or anyone else to tell them they are ugly! If you really do think they are ugly, then IM them and tell them why you think so. That is, if you have the courage to do so! Posting a new thread like yours and then immediately signing off doesn't say much for your courage!

BTW, I don't post a full picture because I know I am not "pretty." Nor can I pass, now that my dear wife has passed away. She did my makeup and wig so I could, and did, pass!

One more thing. Your Tag line about Choice is incorrect. It is true for TRANSEXUALS, but not for Crossdressers. Many of us made the conscience choice to dress, just because we like to. I am not a transgender, or a transsexual. I am a crossdresser, nothing more, and that was not decided in the womb!

Sissy/Stephanie

Girl on the outside, but man underneath!

[DemonicDaughter]

...
Their was a member who went out for the first time, then posted his outfit and asked for honest opinions. And it was really good to rip him apart for the worst top I've ever seen, plus a terrible wig! In this case, real good honest criticism really helps!
...

You know, there is a difference in offering honest criticism and then offering your opinion. Its the worst top YOU'VE ever seen but obviously they liked it. You didn't offer criticism, you offered your opinion. And how did your "ripping" them apart "really help"?

Tact, is an art that should be used when offering any advice or opinion.

See, that was advice as tact is always a good thing to have. But my opinion is that you lack that. I offered both in my post on your thread and it was done with tact.

And this IS a support site, so being SUPPORTIVE is sort of the idea.

[Ayame]

And this IS a support site, so being SUPPORTIVE is sort of the idea.

I agree thats the reason why everyone is on these forums either to get support or to give it. I've noticed something on these forums there are three types of people after they got the support they need from this site. The first type once they get the support they need they share support with others. The second type once they get the support they need they leave the site and stop using it. Last but not least the third type once they get the support and they are feeling good about themselves they feel the need to belittle others that came here for the same reason they came here for.

[crusadergirl]

Ive seen this topic before i thought it was from the same person i guess i was wrong. I understand being honest but hurting others feelings i just can't do. I don't know if that makes me a coward. I try my best to be honest about the pics ppl post. A true superheroine never hurts others.

[vanessatevesti]

Although I appreciate people being honest to me I think that it's very hard to judge someone here based on their pictures, for instance passing as a woman is not about looking pretty, it's all about attitude, I've seen a lot of "ugly" girls (GG's) but never said to myself "this girl is so ugly, she must be a crossdresser", and I've seen beautiful TG's and instantly "read" them. That's because the "ugly" girls have the confidence of being what they are, real girls.
I once met a CD that wasn't what you would call pretty, she didn't care about it and went out anyways, she was so confident that most people thought she was just an ugly woman (but she passed!!) and she was so happy!:D
What would've happen if someone had told her she'd better stay home? It would´ve been a waste!

Besides, I think effort should be rewarded and for some just posting a pic is a huge step and that in itself is beautiful...

[Pandora]

Vicky, this is definetely a thought provoking post, and I wouldn't even begin to pretend I have all the answers, but here is my :2c: anyway. This is not an attack on you btw, I do see where you're coming from.

First off, to say someone "looks hot" and to say "you pass" means different things. Sometimes I see pics of CDers that couldn't pass but still look hot. Not sure what it is that makes them look hot but does it matter? Can't just being ourselves be hot? Can't we accept new standards of beauty?

Secondly. and speaking strictly to CDs here and (sorry) excluding GGs and TS, we are all trying to present as something we are not. Men dressing as women (or vice-versa). Keeping that in mind, I think it's important to reiterate what others have already stated, that this is a place for support. For some it's the only place in society we can go for support. If we want brutal honesty we only need to open our front doors and walk out into the world. We don't share so many feelings of self doubt or self loathing for no reason at all. It comes from the world around us.

It's more than likely that there is an overabundance of polite comments here because when we leave coments for others we are really commenting on ourselves and who we are.

[Nadia-Maria]

It's more than likely that there is an overabundance of polite comments here because when we leave coments for others we are really commenting on ourselves and who we are.

I love your point here Pandora. You made it !!

Hugs

Nadia

[Amy Hepker]

I am as truthful as I can be. I hope I do not affend others about the pics, but think about it, why dress if your not happy about dressing, Smile and show how much you like wearing these wonderful clothes. To me a smile in the pics really shows the real you. If you don't have very good teeth like myself, you can still smile without showing teeth.

I do give my honest opinion on questions, and I try to do it without hurting someones feelings. We are a family here and a very special family, I will be open and honest.

We all need to work together for our family.

[Megan (VA)]

This is a thought provoking thread. It provoked me to try a little experiment over in the Pictures and Video Forum in a thread labeled "Honesty." My feelings on the whole subject of passing are there.

I'm happy to see such a lively discussion!

[Nicki B]

Ugliness comes from inside, IMHO..

[Fiona K]

Honest comment is one thing, malicious comment is unacceptable, especially from those who don't take the plunge and post pics.

We do, as others have noted, take enough stick in the media and from fundamentalists of all kinds, we don't need to do it to each other.

[brawearingbimbo]

Soooo form now on if you want a "HONEST" opinion ask for it and you may get it (more than you want?). If all you want is to be pumped up just ask for "FLUFF" comments (makes you fell better?). I think everyone here is honest but I don't think they want to hurt anyone which is fine. You should not go out of your way to be brutally honest, that should be left for a face to face meeting where you can really see where both of you are comming from.
I think some of you were too hard on Skirt Lover for signing off so fast. I know I don't post and then sit around waiting for responses. I don't have that much time, don't some of you have other things to do? Somebady (correct spelling) mentioned that this had been brought up before, if you go by that standard there would never be any new posts as I believe it has all been covered before at least once if not a hundred times. And no, I do not read every single post or responce, I pick and chose the ones that look interesting. If you have time to read them all you must of taken the Evelyn Wood school of speed reading. Like I said before I just don't have that kind of time. I may not stay on line enough to get any responces so don't get mad at me please, but you can be "Honest" if you like.

[JaytoJillian]

Ugliness comes from inside, IMHO..

Ditto!

[Megan (VA)]

Ugliness comes from inside, IMHO..

Absolutely.

So does femininity.

[ggtracy]

Beauty is always in the eye of the beholder. On another thread, we talked about how hard it is to take a good picture so judging someone harshly based on a photo alone wouldn't be fair. I personally find a confident and happy person very attractive. if you are happy with how you look and what you are wearing, then your true beauty shines through.

[Nicole Erin]

I guess all one can do is offer ways to improve. If nothing else, it gives a person hope and direction. :)

Now onto another serious topic -

I know I will upset a few good number of people on here, but I for one speak my mind and if that is not your can of cola then I do not apologise. If you want me to use artificial sweetener to coat my views or responses to post then sorry that won't happen. It costs too much.

I certainly see it on most forums regarding the soda drinking community but it seems prevalent on here.

A poster posts a pic of themself drinking a Coke and asks what other forum members think.

Why do so many people say "It tastes great" or "it is chilled" or "you pass too much gas after drinking a pepsi" etc etc when it is obviously not the case. They look silly holding that red can but still people persist telling them the above which IMO is actually does more harm than telling them it tastes gross or they need to look at changing what brand of soda they drink.

What on earth is the achievment in telling someone a lie and have them believe they look great holding that can of coke. The only thing that will achieve is that person thinking everything tastes great and they go out and get abuse, insults etc because they chose coke over pepsi.

If you really want to help someone, send them a voucher for a can of pepsi............ they deserve that. Unless you are one of those who goes out of your way for the great taste of RC, then no one cares what you think. :heehee:

So before you unleash your response, at least take a few minutes and think about what I am saying and maybe your response will be different. And please, DON'T obey your thirst cause sprite also sucks, but that is a whole nuther thread. :heehee:

Erin, proud Pepsi drinker.

[Nadia-Maria]

From her avatar, I would rate Skirt Lover as exceedingly gorgeous, very pretty, very feminine and very hot. On her portrait she is very pretty too.

If you don't agree with me, do as myself. Tell her a lie ! :-)

Kisses

Nadia

[Sophia KT]

I guess all one can do is offer ways to improve. If nothing else, it gives a person hope and direction. :)

Now onto another serious topic -

I know I will upset a few good number of people on here, but I for one speak my mind and if that is not your can of cola then I do not apologise. If you want me to use artificial sweetener to coat my views or responses to post then sorry that won't happen. It costs too much.

I certainly see it on most forums regarding the soda drinking community but it seems prevalent on here.

A poster posts a pic of themself drinking a Coke and asks what other forum members think.

Why do so many people say "It tastes great" or "it is chilled" or "you pass too much gas after drinking a pepsi" etc etc when it is obviously not the case. They look silly holding that red can but still people persist telling them the above which IMO is actually does more harm than telling them it tastes gross or they need to look at changing what brand of soda they drink.

What on earth is the achievment in telling someone a lie and have them believe they look great holding that can of coke. The only thing that will achieve is that person thinking everything tastes great and they go out and get abuse, insults etc because they chose coke over pepsi.

If you really want to help someone, send them a voucher for a can of pepsi............ they deserve that. Unless you are one of those who goes out of your way for the great taste of RC, then no one cares what you think. :heehee:

So before you unleash your response, at least take a few minutes and think about what I am saying and maybe your response will be different. And please, DON'T obey your thirst cause sprite also sucks, but that is a whole nuther thread. :heehee:

Erin, proud Pepsi drinker.


This is beating about the bush though isn't it, or do you work in advertizing?

Sophia

[waspookie6]

Vicki, I think this crosses to everyone who asks this on the site, not just FTM.

The ONE thing that supercedes anything in a picture is the smile and sparkle in the eyes - if you see how happy the person looks no matter what they are wearing, that is sheer beauty to me.

No need to sugar coat or post disparaging remarks.
2¢

[Sarah Ellis]

I've refrained on commenting up until now.

We are all human and deserve respect.

I suppose you could say we are all beautiful in a way as we are the children of God and that makes us all equal. There are some out there, however, who can be rather harsh on others though and really put them down. This is really not necessary in any society. No matter who you are, do you think anyone deserves to be left feeling alienated by disparaging comments?

It hurts deeply, I should know, and can have long lasting psychological scars.

Be kind to one another please, for beauty is not a mask on the outside but comes from the heart within. If one is made to feel good then they will look good.

Have respect.


Thankyou, Satin


aka: Sarah Estella

[MentalMercury]

Erin, proud Pepsi drinker.

I just laughed SO hard at that :) the whole thing, not just that part of the quote

[Julie York]

I'm waiting for the FtM photo thread. "Do I pass?"

It would be good to get things in perspective.

[KateSpade83]

You know, there is a difference in offering honest criticism and then offering your opinion. Its the worst top YOU'VE ever seen but obviously they liked it. You didn't offer criticism, you offered your opinion. And how did your "ripping" them apart "really help"?

Tact, is an art that should be used when offering any advice or opinion.

See, that was advice as tact is always a good thing to have. But my opinion is that you lack that. I offered both in my post on your thread and it was done with tact.

And this IS a support site, so being SUPPORTIVE is sort of the idea.

Well, you and Lora Olivia misunderstand me again. I can't properly defend myself because the thread is lost in the Picture Section. But this member asked for honest opinions on how to improve his look, and he posted what he wore his first time out. To me, he looked like a big disaster, so honest rip him apart comments would really help him improve his look. And he wanted these comments to improve his look!

And as for judging me on the inside, you all misunderstand me as an SSDI felon crook materialistic lowlife, and you've really got the wrong opinions of me. To defend myself would take lots of explaining.

[Nicki B]

I'm waiting for the FtM photo thread. "Do I pass?"

It would be good to get things in perspective.

Perhaps they've got more sense? :rolleyes:


To me, he looked like a big disaster, so honest rip him apart comments would really help him improve his look.

Perhaps it's the language you used... If you are going to offer advice on someone's look, you might suggest options you think would work better for what they're wearing - but you shouldn't criticise them, because they can't change who they are (and may not want to)?

It would be good to just offer an opinion, in the hope of helping someone look their best - not trying to make them feel like dirt? That usually means telling them what works - and letting them work out from what you didn't say what doesn't? And - who is to say your opinion is right? :)

[Nicole Erin]

I'm waiting for the FtM photo thread. "Do I pass?"

It would be good to get things in perspective.


It is true that some FTM's don't pass, but for whatever reason they can get away with it better.
Even if an FTM is read on the spot, if he tells people he is a man, no one questions it, they just assume he is a feminine looking guy.

And it is kind of strange how FTM's don't bitch and moan about "passing" like we MTF's do, Myself included.

[DemonicDaughter]

Well, you and Lora Olivia misunderstand me again....

I think if I asked advice on my appearance, I would consider statements like, "I think you would look better with short hair," would be taken a hell of a lot better than, "That is the worst haircut I've ever seen!"

MY POINT is that stating something without tact ISN'T going to help. Its going to sound catty, its going to put the person on the defense and its going to make them not want to post a pic again in fear of the same sort of statements.

But saying something as if you genuinely want to help, and not just enjoying ripping someone apart because it feels good to you, requires tact. And those sort of statements make the biggest impressions. THOSE sort of statements genuinely help.

As far as defending yourself, there is no need. Though I've read previous statements by you, even if I hadn't, I think you stating that it made YOU feel good to RIP someone else apart speaks volumes on your tactfulness.

[jennifer41356]

one can be honest and not be cruel, i will tell someone they look nice and maybe offer some advice on trying to look better..
Some folks want some reassurance and you can say, hey nice outfit or nice shoes and still make them feel ok about themselves without lying to them....

This is why when i post pics of myself it si because I want to show a new outfit...I feel good about the way i look , but when i first started , I would have liked to have had some positive support this board can provide:2c::love:

[CaptLex]

Even if an FTM is read on the spot, if he tells people he is a man, no one questions it, they just assume he is a feminine looking guy.
I wish . . . :p


And it is kind of strange how FTM's don't bitch and moan about "passing" like we MTF's do, Myself included.
You mean you've never heard me rant about constantly being called "ma'am" (lucky you)? :raisedeyebrow:

I wouldn't mind if it were once in a while, but if I shave my beard off, it happens way too often . . . so I can never shave again. :straightface:

[teresa jeen]

we all know billy in a beard doesnt work.but if she puts forth the effort that it takes now days to pass shouldnt she be applauded? I am positive most "girls" look a lot better than me,duh, but i admire their courage for being so outgoing. I myself couldnt do it.We have enough sterss with-out being labeled on our own site!! If you cant come to the plate then shut up.(im gonna get in trouble for this)

[Vicky_Scot]

I guess all one can do is offer ways to improve. If nothing else, it gives a person hope and direction. :)

Now onto another serious topic -

I know I will upset a few good number of people on here, but I for one speak my mind and if that is not your can of cola then I do not apologise. If you want me to use artificial sweetener to coat my views or responses to post then sorry that won't happen. It costs too much.

I certainly see it on most forums regarding the soda drinking community but it seems prevalent on here.

A poster posts a pic of themself drinking a Coke and asks what other forum members think.

Why do so many people say "It tastes great" or "it is chilled" or "you pass too much gas after drinking a pepsi" etc etc when it is obviously not the case. They look silly holding that red can but still people persist telling them the above which IMO is actually does more harm than telling them it tastes gross or they need to look at changing what brand of soda they drink.

What on earth is the achievment in telling someone a lie and have them believe they look great holding that can of coke. The only thing that will achieve is that person thinking everything tastes great and they go out and get abuse, insults etc because they chose coke over pepsi.

If you really want to help someone, send them a voucher for a can of pepsi............ they deserve that. Unless you are one of those who goes out of your way for the great taste of RC, then no one cares what you think. :heehee:

So before you unleash your response, at least take a few minutes and think about what I am saying and maybe your response will be different. And please, DON'T obey your thirst cause sprite also sucks, but that is a whole nuther thread. :heehee:

Erin, proud Pepsi drinker.

Very droll indeed.

[Vicky_Scot]

From her avatar, I would rate Skirt Lover as exceedingly gorgeous, very pretty, very feminine and very hot. On her portrait she is very pretty too.

If you don't agree with me, do as myself. Tell her a lie ! :-)

Kisses

Nadia

I have read the responses on here and have taken on board what you have all said.

I will like to start with your avatar Nadia and state that your outfit looks fab but just a bit of advice hon...........try wearing a bra dearie, your boobs are way to low and are being held up by the waistband of your skirt.

Now is that better.

[tricia_uktv]

Crikey, this is entertaining. Might be an idea for some here to check out the forums of ggs. There is some cattiness but plenty of encouragement too. btw any forum I go into I go in as tricia_uktv so I'm not trying to hoodwink anyone (not that I could).

I think we need to be very careful with first-timers who have been so brave just to get a picture out here.

I don't really agree with Skirt Lover but she is entitled to her opinion and its certainly led to a lively thread.

Now, should i post a photo :)

[Vicky_Scot]

Crikey, this is entertaining. Might be an idea for some here to check out the forums of ggs. There is some cattiness but plenty of encouragement too. btw any forum I go into I go in as tricia_uktv so I'm not trying to hoodwink anyone (not that I could).

I think we need to be very careful with first-timers who have been so brave just to get a picture out here.

I don't really agree with Skirt Lover but she is entitled to her opinion and its certainly led to a lively thread.

Now, should i post a photo :)

I would really like to see where in the OP do I ask anyone to agree with me.

I was just asking the question.

Amazing that it is not ok to dare tell anyone the truth about how they look but it seems acceptable to abuse and call a member names for asking a simple question.

I think that may come under the heading of "double standards".

Seems this forum is full of that.

[iwearstockings]

I agree with you that sometimes when you read the threads you can see that some people reply in a super positive way no matter what. If you watch pop idol you can see that Paula Abdul will try to see the positive in any act no matter how out of tune they are, where as Simon Cowell will be brutally frank at the risk of offence. This forum is more of a support network to help people explore themselves in a safe and non judgemental environment. Its not a beauty contest or who can pass the best.
We share the same passions in varying degrees. I think I look great dressed up but i couldn't pass in a million years. I can live with that. I have been TG clubs dressed in PVC dress and thighboots and looked at the CD's who come along wearing floral dresses and think well that would'nt do it for me, but it does it for them, so good for them.
JMHO:)

[Nadia-Maria]

try wearing a bra dearie, your boobs are way to low and are being held up by the waistband of your skirt.


I go on loving wearing my beautiful pending boobs and knowing that the rudest person of the forum don't like them will make my pleasure even huger !:battingeyelashes:

Kisses to all girls here but one.:heehee:

Nadia

[Fiona K]

It would be good to just offer an opinion, in the hope of helping someone look their best - not trying to make them feel like dirt? That usually means telling them what works - and letting them work out from what you didn't say what doesn't? And - who is to say your opinion is right? :)

Exactly.

[Vicky_Scot]

I go on loving wearing my beautiful pending boobs and knowing that the rudest person of the forum don't like them will make my pleasure even huger !:battingeyelashes:

Kisses to all girls here but one.:heehee:

Nadia

Well you keep dangling your boobs at waist height honey....if thats what you like you go for it.

I really hope that you and some others do not get to hard a landing when you fall off your high horse.

You call me the rudest person on this forum............well I am devasted.

Move on dear and do not let the door hit you on the way out.

[Julie York]

You call me the rudest person on this forum............well I am devasted.

Me too dammit!








(I'm keeping the trophy anyway. Buy your own.)


:D

[Vicky_Scot]

Me too dammit!








(I'm keeping the trophy anyway. Buy your own.)


:D

OMG....................I just get an award and you want to steal it from me.

Julie you are a breath of fresh air..............someone with a sense of numour. :love:

[GypsyKaren]

I am closing this thread because of it's insulting tone and "she said, she said" bickering.

Karen Starlene :star: