Crisis - Please Help.

[Kristi_Satin]

Hi all. Sorry this is a long post but I need help.

Im 41 and been dressing off and on since I was 20 or so. Not fully en femme at first but I guess its the same for many. I started to experiment with makeup about 8 or 9 years ago and there have been a few times when I have fully made myself up.
I do it for personal gratification (masturbation) and don't include anyone else although I do play "on line" and harbour some bi desires but dont feel I would truly ever act on them.

I have been married for 17 years and absolutley adore my wife.

About 5 years ago I was in crisis through quitting a job I loved through stress and being quite down, almost suicidal. During that rough period my wife and i communicated everything and it was then I confessed my crossdressing. I explained that I liked the feel of lingerie and satin and probably wasn't 100% truthful about makeup and en femme ect.

That night at her request, I put on a slip, stockings and heels and we made love and I thought she was ok with it as she said she loved me. But a few days later she said she didnt like it and so it was pushed in tothe background.

A couple of years ago she found some of my "stuff" hidden in the roof. Funny enought it was stuff I hadnt used for ages hence it was in the roof. She confronted me about it and I said truthfully I hadn't used it in ages but this was still not fully truthful. I really thought at this stage that she knew but "out of site out of mind".

A week ago she confronted me again with some clothing she had found and I didnt come fully clean with her as I was embarassed and find it hard to talk about it. But it became clear that this has been a major problem for her for 5 years. Over the last few days I have spoken to friends, none of which know (only one of hers know) and i have discussed it a little bit with her.

She tells me that she lost respect for me that night five years ago and doesnt like the fact I hid it and finds it "creepy" and says 99% of women would be turned off by it and she doesnt know how she has stayed with me.

Honestly our marriage is in crisis. I have discarded all my "stuff" as her love is more important than dressing.

I am quite distressed as I think this may be then end for us.

I suppose what I am asking is how do I earn back her respect? I mean I am so devastated by this and yes there a few other problems weve discussed but it appears this underliying issue is just magnifying all the little things.

I really need ANYONES opinion re this as I am living one minute to the next.

We've been married 17 years and I adore this woman and will do anything to fix whats broken but this is a major, major hurdle I feel can't be overcome.

Any help, PLEASE!!!

[Priscilla1018]

Hi Kristi,

When you first told your wife about your crossdressing did you two seriously discuss it? Did she have questions? The most obvious question that comes to mind is the Gay question,for some reason they all ask that.If you two did'nt discuss things openly at that time,I think that would be a good place to start.
You need to reassure her that she has nothing to fear,that she is not going to loose you.You have to explain that if you dress or not you still have a softer,kinder side of you and that the dressing is really just a way of expressing that side.I think we all have some feminine traits and some male traits.Even women have two sides,male and female.She has to know that both sides of you make up the man she married.This is how I explained it to my wife.
All of this discussion has to be non confrontational;no loud vioces,no verbal abuse,be gentle.Your wife is feeling betrayed somehow by finding your clothes.Evidently she was not all right with it when you thought she was.I think all you can do is to be totaly honest with her,let her know how much she means to you.
I wish you luck and I hope you two can make it work out.Keep me informed.

Love and Hugs,
Priscilla

[Kristi_Satin]

Thanks Priscilla.


We did discuss it a little and the gay thing came up.

He loosing me is not the issue. I feel I have lost her.

She keeps saying her life changed 5 years ago and she lost repect for me and from all accounts she has been miserable since.

So she has tried hard to kep it going and I fear it may be too late.

How do I regain her respect again? God I love this woman and I feel so bad I have done this to her.

[Priscilla1018]

The only way I know is to be totaly honest,and have a heart to heart talk with her.17 years is terrible to throw away.It may be too late but,you have to try.The only way I know to gain a persons trust is to be honest,respect is earned and not easilly given or it means nothing.
Would she be willing to find out more about crossdressing?She thinks 99% of women are turned off by it;that is not so,there are many women that are not.Just read the many posts here from GGs who have husbands who crossdress.Would she be willing to explore on the internet?Is she willing to read about us or even talk to us about it?
You have to try!You say she has other issues,are you willing to change what you are able to do?Is she willing to listen?

Love and Hugs,
Priscilla

[Krissi]

Kristi, I admit I don't know you're whole situation, but I feel that this is not you're wife's only issue. You're wife could be an exception, but it seems that the largest majority of women that find out about their husbands hobby are either outraged, accepting, or nagging about it. Her commenting that she lost respect for you 5 years ago, and that being the center of her argument makes me think that your crossdressing is an excuse for her to take out other frustrations on you.

I totally agree with Priscilla, you have to sit down and talk, be calm, rational and frank with her. You have to remember one thing though. You have to be true to yourself. No matter how much you love her, you can't cower before her trying to win her back. I'm not saying be tough and scream and argue with her, but you've got to get your own points in as well. My first one would be, if this is the big deal she's making of it, why has the 5 years gone by? I think outside of the gay issue (which may still be unsettled for her) her biggest deal is probably trust, not respect. If you held this back from her then what else are you lying about? Does she really know you? Those kind of things. The first thing that came to my mind was if she's felt like this for 5 years, why now? What's changed that she can't go on like this? You guys have to have an open dialog, and remember this won't be settled overnight.

Also definately don't buy into her own close minded thoughts about what women like. There are a lot of women that are very attracted to and turned on by a man dressed like a girl. Several of us here on this site are married to women just like that. Now granted every woman isn't into it, but there are a lot that are. I had dated 2 other women that were into me dressing before I met my wife.

I'd also be weary of talking to her friend that knows. Friends are notorious for telling one spouse one thing, and the other something else. If the friend wants to help, she can be present with both of you as you talk and help that way, so things don't get twisted in retelling.

The respect question still gets to me. Does she not respect you because you dress like a woman, or does she not respect you because you lied, or is it because you can't be upfront and open and talk to her about it? Respect is not about being a man, and being the stud that sweeps her off her feet and protects her. Respect has more to do with trust and admiration than it does with how you act as far as male/femme.

I know that some of my advice may not be what you want to hear. I know you want to do whatever, and change whatever to keep her, and that may work for a while, but it won't change your relationship in the long run. There is an issue here, I'm not sure what it is, but I can tell you its not 100% the crossdressing otherwise she would have bailed a long time ago. If you want to win her back, you've got to be the one that steps up. You've got to talk, to her, you can't be embarrassed. You have to own up to the things you've done, but you don't have to admit to things you didn't do just cause she thinks that's how CDs act.

I wish you all the best in this, I hope things work out well for you. Remember to be patient, and be strong. Respect tends to come when you face a daunting task head on, and make the best of the situation. Good luck!

[ChristineRenee]

If she has lost respect for you Kristi...I think it is more due to the fact that you have not been totally honest with her about your CD'ing that the actual CD'ing itself. Otherwise, maybe you need to look inside yourself at your own self-esteem here.

Understand that there is nothing inherently wrong about CD'ing, or being a CD, in and of itself. What does complicate the issue...particularly when it is introduced in a marital situation...is when one or both parties are not totally honest with the other about how they feel about it. Your wife apparently was not as comfortable with this as you had thought...maybe even as SHE might have initially thought. What is really needed here is for the both of you to sit down and talk this through...and as Priscilla said...openly, honestly, and without screaming and yelling or other theatrics. It is an important issue and potentially can be a very divisive one. And there is no reason for you to approach this from a defensive posture either. You are not on trial here. All you are doing is expressing a part of you that needs to be expressed. 99% of women would not accept this? Where does your wife get the data to support that?
Again...this is not the time for overreaction on either side, but rather a frank discussion of how this subject matter is going to be dealt in your marriage both right now and in the future.

I hope, for the sake of your marriage, that it is your lack of being totally honest about this, rather than the CD'ing itself, that is the real issue here with her. Again, only honest and open communication with her can ascertain whether this is the case or not. Reassuring her that you are not gay or that she is not going to lose her man is a very important consideration for your spouse too. But once again...she should not try to make you feel that you have done something wrong here by CD'ing. It can be worked out between the two of you...it doesn't have to be a barrier. But it will take a lot of patience, understanding, and educating her about CD'ing...and a whole lotta love along with it.

I wish for the two of you only the best and hope that together you can resolve this to your mutual benefit, and that your marriage will become stronger for having gone through it. Best of luck and keep us informed of how things are progressing.

Love,
Chrissie:)

[DonnaT]

She keeps saying her life changed 5 years ago and she lost repect for me and from all accounts she has been miserable since.

The reality is, sometimes, even when a wife knows, but has never seen her husband dressed up, she cannot accept it, ever.

You've already purged your stuff (all of it?) and there's not much else you can do except ask her what it will take to win back her respect.

It may be that there is nothing you can do, however. If she says that that is the case, then tell her you hate that your CDing has made her miserable, and if you'd of known this earlier, you would have tried stopping then.


That night at her request, I put on a slip, stockings and heels and we made love and I thought she was ok with it as she said she loved me. But a few days later she said she didnt like it and so it was pushed in tothe background.

I wonder if the fact that it appears that she initially liked it and enjoyed making love with you being dressed, she didn't overthink things and begin to doubt her own sexual orientation. She may have thought that this made her a lesbian, and hating that idea, pushed the blame onto your dressing.

I think some serious marriage counceling is in order with a good therapist. One that is familier with marrage conflicts involving CDing husbands.

If all else fails, then tell her that you are still deeply in love with her, but that you love her enough to let her go. Then get yourself some counceling to get past your grief, especially since you have felt suicidal before.

[StephanieCD]

that she lost respect for me that night five years ago and doesnt like the fact I hid it and finds it "creepy" and says 99% of women would be turned off by it and she doesnt know how she has stayed with me.

I heard the same thing once from my ex. She later told me in a confessional statement that it was out of personal frustration and feeling different that she said that - and to hurt me at the time because she felt hurt, too. She said that NO woman EVER would EVER be into anything like that and even if they did they were probably suffering from low self-esteem because they couldn't get a REAL man and would just take what they could get.

She was queen of hurtful statements.

Since she and I split I have told 3 girlfriends (well, 2.5) about my dressing - one was actually turned on by it and had wondered in the past but never had the guts to talk about it and they other, though reluctant is now more comfortable with it than I am.

I don't have any deep advice - just some words to show you that you're not alone. I'm guessing your wife feels hurt and possibly angry because she didn't "get what she ordered". My advice is make HER feelings the important thing right now, make it known, and confess everything when she's ready.

[Julie York]

I think the answers you have been getting are very good. I think Krissi's answer is about as accurate and helpful as anything I can come up with. I too was reading between the lines and it seems that the REAL problem is not totally about the CD stuff. There's something else bothering her.

And if she knows nothing at all about the subject you have an uphill struggle.

The one thing I can suggest is to get her to talk.....and talk and talk and talk..and I think you'll find that there is some underlying resentment going on about something you may not even be aware off. Trust? Lack of feeling loved? (which is silly given how you have said here how you feel.) But there is something else burning away.

Good luck anyway and let us know how it goes.

[Stephenie]

Kristi,

9 or 10 years ago I tried to let my wife know about my dressing by putting on some of her undeis and making love to her. Her reaction was not good so i need not tell her about dressing since age 11 and we did not talk about it until a couple of days ago. She told me that on that night she felt her world crumble, that she felt alone in the world. She said that didn't look at me the same and doesn't know why she stayed with me except that she really loves me. Well since I told her the whole thing from beginning to end she was at first hurt that I didn't tell her sooner (24yrs Married) and is now more open to discussion and I think/hope that we can work things out and be happy. i think that she might already she a change in our relaitionship. We when shopping last night(not for me) and I spent the whole time with her and talking about the kids clothes and hers. At dinner she asked me to sit at the same side of the booth as her. I felt great. It was the first night out shopping in years that we didn't fight about something.
I really think that talk is the only answer but the truth must be told and if you aren't sure that you will stop forever than tell her up front.

Hope this can help.

[melissacd]

Kristi,

Here is another thread with similar topic items and you may get some ideas here as well.

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6991

Hugs
Melissa Eh!

[Kristi_Satin]

Hi girls. Look its all been wonderful advice.


I do think sh is not "informed" and I printed out an artical last night and have copied all of your posts and printed them out and I will offer them too her including MY post.

That way she can see I am TRYING to be honest.

Yes there are other issues as well I think and I think the reason as to why NOW is because she found some of stuff a week ago. Well she found ALL of my stuff.

I'll let you know.

Thank you so much.

[Krissi]

Thank you Julie for what you said, that was very kind of you. It took me forever to submit that post. I wanted to be supportive, but also felt that Kristi is in a dangerous position. Kristi has self worth too, and can't sacrifice herself just to please her wife. StephanieCD brings up a great point about saying hurtful things. That's probably her defense mechanism just like being embarrased and clamming up seems to be Kristi's. Donna is right, I hope these folks can sit down with a good councilor and work things out.

[eileen1969]

Losing one that you love is a very painful experience....and there are many reasons why this happens very often. The truth shall set you free, for myself that did hurt. My CD ing did effect our relationship at the time we were together and still does today. We are separated and have been for sometime, I wished her well in her life! when, I came out fully free, she told me good for you....When the time I met her, she could not even so much as say hi and disregarded my feminine self. Shannon, the mother of our children...is her name with all do respect. To make a very long story short! I let her go and still to this very day! I by no means have any kind of relationship with her.
We never had a good relationship to begin with and I honestly believe that if no couple has this with themselves? how can another person love another without conditions, perceptions, and expectations. My simple thought, a lot of people do, is complicate love! Love is Love~it does not ask to be added to anything or anyone. It does not hurt~people do! to love oneself... and by doing this, set love free and the possiblities are endless. Does anyone in this great world we share know unconditional love? I DO!.... ;)

[Elysia]

I agree with Krissi and the others here, but I would emphasize that when people are frustrated and afraid they can lash out and say things which are quite extreme; things that don’t fully reflect the full range of their feelings over time. You must appreciate the level of discomfort that this discovery must have created for your wife.

No one likes to have their preconceived notion of how the world works shattered, especially in a way that hits so close to home. My guess is that your wife managed to compartmentalize her feelings about your cross-dressing and has really not thought that much about it during the last 5 years. If she’d been experiencing, on a consistent basis, the level of distress that’s evident in her recent statements, things would have come to a head long before now.

Take your time but don’t let things lapse back into denial. Be patient with her. Try to understand how disorientating this divergence from the generally expected path can be. You’ve had years to ponder the meaning of your desires and I’d bet being a cross-dresser has been a source of fear and frustration for you too.

I’ll echo the advice so many have given, talk about it, listen, listen, listen, get it all out, be patient and kind, treat her with respect, treat yourself with respect, don’t react in anger and don’t have despair. You’re on the ride now, it’s going to be scary, but it might just take you somewhere wonderful.

Also, seek some advice from the GG’s here. They know better than any of us cross-dressers what it’s like to be on the other end of this kind of situation.

[º’~\_…trace GG…_/~’º]

kristi,

if your wife isn't ready/willing/able to talk to you about this, then i suggest asking her to write you a letter. tell her to be frank and completely honest about how she is feeling right now and where she thinks things are going. you do the same. you write down what you want her to know.

then, find a time to exchange your letters and read them. it may give your wife some points to focus on and gve her some starting points for any questions she has about you.

it is going to be a painful process, and by it's very nature, it's going to be very hurtful to you both. it can feel like the end of the world when you're confronted with something like this. you need to be careful that for every step that you take out of the closet, we gg's don't take a step in.

remember that, although a little respect may have been lost, the love hasn't gone. if she wasn't prepared to find a solution, she'd have been long gone by now.

you've got a tough job ahead of you, but i wish you luck my friend. be strong.

[Melissa A.]

Hi Kristi,

I've heard those words before and I understand how much they hurt. The advice you have gotten here is so thoughtful and supportive that I don't know what else to add. But I do want to offer support.

I know that you adore your wife, and after 17 years, are understandabley very scared. Judging by what she has said, I don't know if she will ever understand, or make an attempt. As Donna said, some people simply never will. Fear, ignorance, and social conditioning are strong influences over a lifetime. Even for crossdressers. Many of us who are or have been married have believed our intolerant partners when they told us we were wrong to do what we do. Took me years to really believe there was nothing wrong with dressing.

I too, urge you to try to expose her, tactfully, to education and information. But what she has said is so ignorant and mean, I think you have your work cut out for you. But I guess you have no choice but to try. You don't deserve to be miserable when your'e not doing anything really wrong. What about her friend? Is she somewhat supportive of your position? And you can try this site, if she will look. There are some excellent threads on this subject, as well as the GG forum.

I wish you the best of luck, honey, as I have been there. I hope things improve. PM me anytime if you want.

Hugs,

Melissa :)

[Holly]

Kristi,

Do you see a pattern here? Communication. Honesty. Trust. These are the issues you will need to deal with. CDing is the symptom, not the cause of your martial problems. You are going to have to allow yourself to be more vunerable to your wife than you have ever been before. Lay it ALL out, but do it with sensitivity and compassion. You must be prepared to share every desire, every feeling, every compulsion you have ever experienced with her.

If your love for one another is truely the foundation of your marriage, your union will survive. But be prepared to change at least one thing about yourself... and that is your willingness to commit your entire being into her care. Be honest here... you have shown a lack of trust in HER by not sharing an important part of yourself wirh her. Can you even begin to imagine how that must have made her feel?

You can do this! Love her for who she is... your soul mate. Reassure her that your love for her is complete and unchanged. Fully and totally commit your heart into her care. Trust that she will love and protect you. You really have nothing to lose and EVERYTHING to gain.

Just one more thing... don't make any promises you cant keep. If you feel that you can't stop CDing, don't tell her you will. Remember, it's not the CDing that is wrong.

Please do let us know how things work out.

[Tamara Croft]

Oh Kristi.... what can I say. From a GG's perspective I can understand how your wife is feeling. I felt like that before I decided to do some research on why my partner is a crossdresser. I had no one to talk to about it, no family, friends... I felt completely isolated and more in the closet than her. I think it's all about your wife understanding why you crossdress and trying to make her understand that there is nothing wrong with it.... The fact that 99% of GG's probably feel the way she does imo is inaccurate... My advice to you is, get your wife some information regarding crossdressers.... she needs to see facts and try to understand 'why'. It took me 6 years to accept my partner is a crossdresser... but I educated myself and I'm glad I did.

Tamara x

[StephanieCD]

Oh Kristi.... what can I say. From a GG's perspective I can understand how your wife is feeling. I felt like that before I decided to do some research on why my partner is a crossdresser. I had no one to talk to about it, no family, friends... I felt completely isolated and more in the closet than her. I think it's all about your wife understanding why you crossdress and trying to make her understand that there is nothing wrong with it.... The fact that 99% of GG's probably feel the way she does imo is inaccurate... My advice to you is, get your wife some information regarding crossdressers.... she needs to see facts and try to understand 'why'. It took me 6 years to accept my partner is a crossdresser... but I educated myself and I'm glad I did.

Tamara x


If there is any post you should print and give to your wife it's that one.

Also - long shot but perhaps offering her a choice of volunteers to email and ask questions might be nice. My ex (we didn't separate because of it - no worries) found a lot of comfort in a forum for GGs at the Tri-ess website - she said talking to other wives helped. But she also said asking questions of other random CDs on the forums helped her get a window on 'reality' - that she probably already knows at least a couple of guys that do it and are so hidden she'd never know... even after she said "I could just tell" - "couldn't tell about ME, then, could you hun?"

I volunteer my personal email if your wife wants to ask questions or talk to someone about it. All conversations would be kept private - even from you, for your sake.

I doubt she'll take me up on it, but it'd be a pleasure to help. PM me if she's interested.

[Tamara Croft]

If there is any post you should print and give to your wife it's that one.
Thank You Stephanie :D

Just to add, I will also offer my email address if your wife would like someone to talk to. Just send me a PM.

Tamara x

[Tristen Cox]

There's some great advice in here. I really do hope this works out for you Kristi. Moving on with my post, you need to chose what direction you are going to take. Drop the CDing altogether and work things out with her, or hide it and work things out and try to gain her understanding of that side at a later time. There's no doubt this is stressing you out so first thing find yourself a bit of relaxation to think. This situation is not easy but no matter what the result you want to be at your fullest to sort it out. If you're bound and determined to hold on at any cost and giving up Cding is the solution, just do it. Tell her how much she means to you, how crazy this has made you to think you could lose someone who is so deep in your heart. If you look hard enough inside you will see what she wants from you and what you must do to hold on. Sometimes we just don't want to see the answer even if it's infront of our face. Be prepared for the result either way. *hugs*

[Dana]

I sold cars for a living ~ for about six months! Talk about "smoke and illussion!"

Going into a marriage, being a crossdresser, without telling the wife before hand, and even years after the fact, is a lot like false advertising! When yo go into a realtionship, you've got to be up-front and honest about who and what you are as a person, as an individual, as a man!

The majority of women, are not out looking for a relationship that has a perchance for dressing up in women's clothes, jewelry, makeup, and acting and being girly! They're just not!

They might be accepting, tolerant, even enjoy it it, in so long as its not "their" man!

The majority of women are atttacted to me ~ for whatever reason and they want a man who acts, dresses, behaves, walks and talks like a man ~ even with all the negative of "traditional" males!

So when a CD goes into a relationship with a "traditionally normal" woman, and presents himself as a traditionally "normal" man, only to find out later, ofthentimes much later that what she thiough she was getting isn't in fact what she thought she was gotten, the damn of emotions breaks! She fells ripped off and betrayed, having been made a fool! And, NOONE likes being played for a fool! Just like NOONE likes being ripped off!

The traditional roles gets confusing, especially if you're more successful at protraying a woman, than she, a naturally born female is!

From painful experience, this is what she's telling you!

She's tried to get this around her head and she can't! For five years she's tried to get this around and into her head, and accept it and she can't! She can't accept it! Doesn't make you wrong! Doesn't make her wrong! Just the way the it is! A lot of the reason that she can't accept it, is because of up-teen years of cultural and societial condintioning ~ the same reason many of us have so much difficulty accepting who and what we are!

And, you , we, us aren't just going up against what we been taught, what we've been taught and conditioned to think, perceive, and understand about what it means to be male and female, a man and a woman ~ we're going up againist thousands of years of societial and cultural conditioining!

Crossdressing in and of itself? There's nothing wrong with it! Women are more freeer to cross gender boundaries, than men are! At least in American society! While for men, those boundaries are very strict, and ridgid! Even in American society!

The term "Tomboy" is a lexicon of the American vocabulary, while the male version of it ~ the version that applies to men who are straight, heterosexual ~ but who have femininie attributes are "sissy" or "effeminate male!" None of which care a positive connotation! While the term "Tomboy" does indeed have a positive connotation!

I'm not going to sit here and play "Dr. Phil" with you! I'm not qualified to do so!

But, I will say this! I would recommend that you and her get into counseling about this! If she won't go, then go yourself! Why? Not because you're distrubed, mentally ill, nor any of the routine descriptions from "normal" people use to describe crossdressers! But, because it time to find out who and what you are, as a an individual and as a person! Its time to reconcile some things! Its time to come to peace with some things and issues in your life, THIS being one of them! (THIS meaning your problems with your wife ~ all of them ~ to include crossdessing)

People say that other people exsist upon a spectrum of exsistence ~ different strokes for different folks! The truth is, its not that simple! People actually are much more multi-dimensional than that! Its more like a 3 dimensional matrix! Thus one CD can say they're straight, while another can say they're Bi, while another can say they're gay! A TS can say they pre-op, post-op, or non-op!

In our society, we all want to belive that they're are ABSOLUTES, when in fact they are no absolutes! Any given male is apt to be just as femininie as any naturally born female, and the reverse is true!

But, we tend to want to veiw things in black and white! Absolutes! The fact of the matter is that there's a lot of gray in between!

Your wife says she's lost all respect for you. You're asking how to get it back? You can't! At least not the respect that she had for you before she discovered you were CD! The dynamics has changed. The rules of the game have changed! Before you might could have called it checkers, now its chess! Not the same game! Similar! But, not the same!

As I see it, what you've got to do is get real! And, you've got to get real now! And, the first person you'v got to get real is not with her, but with yourself!

And the first thing that you've got to get real about is accepting the fact that you're different from your stereotypical male! You just are! Just as I am!Just as most of us on this board are! We always have been, and we always will be! That's just cold hard, fact and reality hitting you in the face!

Will you always be drawn to feminiine things, and finery! Yes! Can you un-eqiivocallly quit! Yes! One day at a time for the rest of your life! Like quitting drinking, quitting smoking, giving up drugs! Should you decided to go this route, for the sake of your marriage, for the sake of your relationship, for the sake of your wife, everyday for the rest of your life, you're going to have to get out of bed, and say to yourself, "Today! I'm not going to wear panties! Today! I'm not going to get dressesd in women's (whatever)

The rub of it is that, you've got to go out there in the world! You're going to have to go to the department store, , you're going to find yourself walking past or through the "women's" section, and its going to drive you crazy! You're going to come across women, and see what they're wearing, and you're going to think, "Damn! I wished I could wear that!"

And it could be jewelery, makeup, ear rings, clothes! And, its going to drive you crazy!

And, then living with a woman, seeing her go through her beauty routine, getting dressed for work! Or whatever! Folding and putting away the laundry!

Me? I can't do it! I've tried! Through 12 years of marriage, and six and a half with another GG! I've not been in a serious relationship for seven years, for many reason other than CD'ing! But, I know that when I do get with another GG, its only a matter of time, before I'm giving her money or some other excuse to get out of the house, so I can get into her clothes, makeup, jewelry! That's me! That's a part of who and what I am! That's what I am!
Its taken me a many a year to understand that!

I made an earlier post here, and I got spanked for "if its just about whanking off while wearing women's clothes" then its for all the wrong reasons! You know what? They were right!

God Bless You and Yours!

[michelle-jean]

hi kristi:michelle-jean:yes it can be fixed.just be honest with her.sit down and let her know in a calm manner that this is apart of you.that you are not gay just because you want to show a softer side of you.if she thinks you are gay. i am bi and i was honest with my wife and i am a cd lady and i like it,love it,want it and need it all to make up all of the human that i am.(and let me say gay people are human to and straight people are human to)we are what we are just be HONEST.

[Kristi_Satin]

Hi Guys.

All not going too well. My emotions are up and down and at the moment I'm feeling the affects of a couple of sleeping pills to get me to seleep.

Spent 45 minutes on the suicide line yesterday. Well it worked. Im here.

Couple of updates. She is withdrwainf touch and there is something else there. She read the posts and said I edited them and picked the good ones.

One thn is I mentioned the time I dressed that it was at her reques. She argues it wasn't and that I forced it.

I am not handling this at all.

[Sophie Haworth]

Prayers and thoughts are with you both during this very tough time.

Sophie.

[Like2BAspen]

I have found from dating and marriage that when a woman looses respect for you you can NEVER get it back. NEVER. While you are still talking try to work something out. The BIGGEST question is do the two of you have children. If not Then split your stuff and go your separate ways. If you have children that will be very tough. Depending on there age you have to explain it to them so your soon to be ex can not hold it over your head. Woman can be a pain and most can't be trusted with this kind of thing. If you can't work it out It will come up in court. I am lucky that I never trusted my ex with my secret. My divorce was hard enough., without throwing that into the mix. Don't trust lawyers. If you need help filing papers PM aspen I will help A lawyer will only take your money. I have become very good at paperwork w/ legal matters I can help save you alot of money I have family members that are lawyers and help with advice and info on legal matters. You can never get her respect back. why kill yourself trying. She probably laughs and makes jokes about you with her friends. Why subject yourself to that you deserve better

[Tamara Croft]

Don't trust lawyers. If you need help filing papers PM aspen I will help A lawyer will only take your money. I have become very good at paperwork w/ legal matters I can help save you alot of money I have family members that are lawyers and help with advice and info on legal matters. You can never get her respect back. why kill yourself trying. She probably laughs and makes jokes about you with her friends. Why subject yourself to that you deserve better

Don't trust lawyers, but trust the members of your family that are lawyers???

The last part of your post was harsh.... she asked for advice on how to regain her wifes respect, not divorce advice... please don't put thoughts into her mind on what you 'assume' her wife is doing. Respect is earned and can be earned again... never say never....

[Julie York]

I have found from dating and marriage that when a woman looses respect for you you can NEVER get it back. NEVER. While you are still talking try to work something out. The BIGGEST question is do the two of you have children. If not Then split your stuff and go your separate ways. If you have children that will be very tough. Depending on there age you have to explain it to them so your soon to be ex can not hold it over your head. Woman can be a pain and most can't be trusted with this kind of thing. If you can't work it out It will come up in court. I am lucky that I never trusted my ex with my secret. My divorce was hard enough., without throwing that into the mix. Don't trust lawyers. If you need help filing papers PM aspen I will help A lawyer will only take your money. I have become very good at paperwork w/ legal matters I can help save you alot of money I have family members that are lawyers and help with advice and info on legal matters. You can never get her respect back. why kill yourself trying. She probably laughs and makes jokes about you with her friends. Why subject yourself to that you deserve better

That's got to be the most misplaced, unfeeling, bloody STUPID posts I have seen on this forum! And there's been plenty.

Are you crazy Aspen!?

This is someone with serious problems and you're chasing the ambulance!

This is someone who is severely depressed and you're saying, collect your stuff and get out while you can "She probably laughs and makes jokes about you with her friends".

What are you going to do next? Offer a rope with a noose?

You are one serious head case Aspen, and if that offends either you or anyone else then PM me off this thread and I'll tell you what I really think!

[Cathe TV]

It happens to be a sad comment on life, but in some respects Aspen is absolutely correct.

Discounting the few GG's who are supportive and understanding - and make no mistake they are FEW and far between - the majority of women have a real double standard when it comes to respect and forgiveness. Women in general are very quick to hit a man with the "no respect" tag where they are concerned, and very slow with the opposite where their husband is concerned. Whereas they expect to be forgiven immediately when they are unfaithful or hide a questionable past - they are not quick to forgive their mate if HE crosses the line. Any psychologist will tell you that.

I don't agree with everything Aspen said, but I understand her bitterness having gone through a bad divorce and dealing with an obviously nasty woman.

Badmouthing her is easy if you have never been in her heels.

[Kristi_Satin]

I gave her that las couple of posts and she read them but was dissmissive.


Tamara i sent you a message with her email.

Aspen is probably right but everything is friendly for now.

But 2 sleeping pills is only getting me 4 hours sleep. Ihavent eaten anythin in five days.

I have to work today and the thought of leaving the hous is killing me.

I dont want to be llike this. We have marriage counselling on wednesday and i know there is no magic wand.

But i told her she had a closed mind and wouldn't listen to anyone especially about cding. And i think thats a prob. Yeah there are other issues to but I don't know hat the are. I want to at least try.

Look everytone, she has told me she has been "dissastisfied" for 5 years. If I can't reconcile things I at least was to try and get her mind right and try and repair the five years of hurt i caused her.

[Julie York]

(This was a thread started by someone desperately unhappy who needs help and support about their particular problem.)

I hope despite the negatives that it's been helpful.

[Tamara Croft]

I don't agree with everything Aspen said, but I understand her bitterness having gone through a bad divorce and dealing with an obviously nasty woman.
Exactly... her bitterness... just because her issues weren't resolved amicably, doesn't mean someone elses can't. This thread isn't about Aspen, this is about Kristi asking how to regain trust... not to flame her wife without even knowing all the facts.

Kristi I'll check my email when I get home :)

[Kristi_Satin]

Hi.

A wonderful session with my psychologist today. I saw this woman 5 years ago when I had issues re stress. I didnt tell her about being a CD then.

Today I went through all the issues obviously from my point of view but as unbiased as what I could and throughout she said there were issues and maybe my wife didnt wan't to reconcile.

But I wanted honest advice.
So I bit the bullett and told her I had something that no one knew and I built it up and said i was embarrased and sad and thought shed would loose respect for me and I tolder her I was a crossdresser.

Well the look on her face and the response from her was absolutley amazing.

Bascially she changed her whole tack and said, "Is that all, my heavens, this can be fixed"

I fell like such a weight has been lifted off of my shoulders. She assured me that I wasn't sick that I wasn't a pervert that it was private and hurt no one and un informed people need to educate themselves before the make opinions.

So I told her I think my wife has had issue with the fact she cant tell anyone or confide in anyone and I basically agreed that if it helps fix my wife then she can tell anyone she wants and then its my problem and not hers.

Now you may think thats self destructive but we'll just take each step.

I gave her this link this morning. Havent spoken to her yet. She still thinks I edited the responses so I wanted her to see I hadn't, although some of you (including me) should use spell check lol.

I don't know where we are going but it may be as you have all said that there are other issues, I dont know. But she has said this is the basis of all the probs. So I don't know.

Thank you all so much.

[Krissi]

Kristi,

I'm glad to hear that you have seen some one and some of the pressure has eased on you. I was very worried about you. I had a cousin who committed suicide at the age of 18 and can be very sensitive on that subject. No matter what happens, just take it day by day. Remember that you are important in this as well. Keep your head up.

[Kristi_Satin]

Thanks Krissi, but its gone down hill again although I'm not that desperate at presetn.


We discused it last night and my god the woman is closed her mind so tight. No matter what information i give her she has her own ideas and ideal. She thinks most of these posts have said your wives couldnt stand it but she has not picked out any of the postitives in anything.

I fear she has closed her heart completely.

She said she tried to tell me that she didnt like it 5 years ago and has said it since. She said she has tried to put it out of her mind. But she said whenever she tried I said it was embarrassing and don't want to talk about it. She is right, I did, like most others probably would, but that doesnt make it right on my part.

I told her that not once did she confront me and say we need to talk about this. Had she then maybe I would have tried to come to terms and sit with her but honestly, given her approach at present I feel it would have been no use.

I still don't know if this is the full issue but getting info from her is like extracting teeth. I understand that she won't open up to me as I am the problem and i do kind of keep pestering her for what the issues are.

But she tells me she is strong and independant now but there is just no emotion. She got a little angry last night but thats the first time in a few days that she has shown ANY emotion other than indifference.

I guess the biggest obstacle I can't overcome is just the total withdrawal of physical contact. I understand sex isnt gunna happen but I mean she does not inititate a hug or a touch and while we sit together on the couch its like she is recoiled away from me and frightened she will or I will encroach on her side. If I move towards her there is this unconconcious movement away by her.

We used to be in a ver touchy -feely relationship with lots of cuddles and "I love you" and kisses and geneuine (so I thought) love. But there is nothing there and its like I have a live in housekeeper who shares my bed nut nothing else.

I didn't think that if we seperated that it would be anything but amicable and we would stay friends but I honestly can't see that happening. I was sort of on top of the world yesterday but now I feel so angry that she has not at all considered the shame and fear I have fealt in trying to hide my crossdressing for the past 20 odd years. I undertand her feelings of loss of respect and "it giving her the creeps" and "not liking it" I truly do, but I have feelings to.

So I can see the direction this is taking and I told her this morning that although she feels strong, she is keping me around until she is strong enough and thinks she can survive without me and them Im out. I feel she wants her cake and eat it too.

[Julie York]

I'm no expert but even I can spot this...

Your wife is deeply hurt. It may have nothing at all to do with what you think the issues are. And no-one, when they are feeling hurt and sensitive, wants physical contact unless they feel protected by that contact. Not a hug from anyone.

You're both hurting. You're both sensitive and hurting. And yet every now and then you slip a word or phrase in that shows she does care for you. She is just hurting badly and has withdrawn like people do when they feel bad.

Put the whole CD thing aside for now and find out what the real issue is. She maybe doesn't know anything it all (CD stuff) about the harmlessness of it, (I mean it's just like playing halloween in private for heavens sakes!) or what it is all about, and so if you keep bringing it up when she is not inclined to listen, you're just rubbing salt in the wound.

Put the CD thing aside, and talk talk talk.



That's my tuppenyworth.

I wish you both well.

[Krissi]

Kristi,

I'm soo sorry to hear how things have turned on you. Just remember the feeling you had when you left the therapist. Keep some happy thoughts. There is nothing wrong with you. You have a hobby she doesn't like, that's it. There is nothing different than if you were a smoker and she didn't like that. Don't let her guilt you into hanging around or doing something you don't want to do.

Honestly when I read your post there the one thing that kept running through my head was selfish. She is all about herself, and to a certain extent that is good, but you are making an effort to meet her and she is blowing it off. I have a quick story for you that happened to one of my clients. I'm in insurance and this happened to one of my insureds, it has nothing to do with crossdressing, but reminded me a lot of your situation.

I have a "couple" insured, we'll call him Jim and her Lois. They're not married but have lived together for years. Lois calls in to tell me she has moved, and to change her address. I do that, and then she stops paying for her insurance. A week or so later, Jim stops in to pay the insurance that has cancelled and to ask about coverages on his truck. It seems someone has slashed his tires and done some other things like that. As we sit and talk to Jim, it seems Lois, who is in her 40s has moved in with some 20ish girls and is partying everynight, quit her job and stuck him with the bills. He was about to lose his house, his truck was uninsured, and she was having her friends play pranks on his truck and house. Very messy stuff. Well it wasn't a month later that Jim calls to add her to his policies. She came knocking on his door at 3 in the morning begging him to take her back. He did, and footed the bill for her to live at home for 3 months while she looked for a job. He thinks things are okay, she gets a job and leaves him again, thankfully this time everything is already in his name and he's not stuck like he was before.

I tell you this because your wife in a way reminds me of "Lois" She has a man that will do anything for her, is willing to change and accept things, yet all she can think about is having a good time herself. I can understand your wife being creeped out and I can see where she may need some space to deal with things, but if she is just using you to get on her feet so she can dump you while you're trying to make it up to her, then that isn't fair to you, her, or anyone. If she's so gung ho to leave, then make sure she knows where the door is. Don't get stuck like that guy was, protect yourself, emotionally and phsycially. Keep trying to get her to talk, but don't be pushy. I know when my wife and I get in fights, she won't even look at me, it hurts and I know what you're going through is way worse, but sometimes giving her space, and being a presance from a distance is the only way to go. And by all means, keep talking to us.

[Kristi_Satin]

You are right and Im acting wrong in many instances but I havent been here before and and I just don't know what is right.


Re recently refinanced the house and built a garage (within the last 2 months) and ok, the garage was to replace the carport I didnt build (took me 7 years to get 6 brick pillars built) And I asked her this morning about this. She said last night when I told her I had said to the psych that I feel like its been happeneing for 2 or 3 weeks ( I did also say the warning signs were there, I can see them now) but my wife said to me its been happeneing for ages.

Ok so why did you allow us or me or whatever to do things that looked like we were making even more of a committment? You could have said, hey lets hand back a bit, I wann think about this. Maybe she did, and I missed it, I dont know. You know I feel like she has lied to ME!!
:mad:

[DonnaT]

The issues you are trying to uncover may come out when you and your wife go to marriage counselling on Wednesday.

Print out all the posts to your thread and take them with you. Discuss them with the therapist. You might even give them to your marriage counselling therapist tomorrow so he/she can be prepared for what is to come.

Kristi, please note that there is nothing, NOTHING, worth committing suicide over. If she has already lost respect for you and is unattached emotionally, then killing yourself will not cause her any grief. She will only have the satisfaction of 'winning'.

There have been members of this and other similar forums that have gone through what you are, and survived. One is getting married this month to a very supporting lady. Others may have taken several tries, but have found someone that is accepting and knows that the love their CDing partner offers can't be beat. And yet others have found a freedom to dress when they like, and love it.

Hopefully, you and your wife can work things out, and return to how things used to be, but if not, then note that life does go on, and sometimes it improves.

[Holly]

Krissi,

I so sorry that things aren't better. But sometimes you just have to invoke the Serenity Prayer... God grant me the courage to change the things I can, accept the things I can't and the wisdom to know the difference between the two. You are holding out the olive branch. It will be up to your wife to reach out and take it. Sadly, nothing you can do will force her to take that step.

You must be satisfied that you have owned up to your own shortcomings (no shame, we ALL have them... including her) and now it is wholly up to her to respond. You should also be comforted that you have taken the high road and acted rationally and responsibly. Be available to your wife, but don't beg. You are a human being worthy of respect and consideration. If she won't discuss the REAL issues with you, then there is really very little more that you can do. Remember what I said a few days ago? Your crossdressing IS NOT THE ISSUE, it's a symptom. Under no circumstances should you allow her to devalue your life! While it may be appropriate for you to regret the way you have handled some things in the past, please don't ever regret WHO you are.

[Crystal_sub]

Kristi, I'm sorry to say this to you.
And ladies, I thought and thought over and over whether to say this or not. Please understand that it takes me lots of courage to say this opposite point of view.
I think you have already lost your wife. She won't be your loving, darling your other self any more. Once this thing happened and even she doesn't get it in your point of view, it's over. You two might live together as up to now, but it will be different. sorry.
Some thing I'd like to point out is that you seem thinking as a MAN who only considers himself and wants everyone to understand him and tells everyone to follow him. We just say we know she got hurt...But how much do we know? Some case study and Tamara's understanding will the only research we can do so far. We actually don't know her real feelings.
Another thing I really want to tell you is that....
The truth is your wife doesn't like your CDing or even she won't understand whoever's CDing. THEN, What are you doing here? Try to convince what? Do you want her to believe that you're not going to CD anymore while you're still hanging around CD's?

As an oriental person, I would do this if I were you.
1. Dump anything away regarding and making her believe you're CDing. Try hard to find everything.
2. Delete anything related to CDing from your computer.
3. Try to forget you're Kristi
4. Write down what you have done through 1 to 3.
5. Tell her FIRMLY that you're sorry what happened for those years and those won't happen again giving her 4. Don't try to remind her what happened. This will make her upset even more. Just tell her "what happened".
6. Behave yourself and Act you're a Man of the house.

Sorry again, but I'm not directing you anywhere. I really hope you two would live happily.

[Melissa A.]

Hi Kristi,

Geez, hon, you don't deserve this. You seem to be the only one trying. I think a therapist can help, but only if she wants them to. Holly's words were so wise, and really hit home with me,(I experienced a mildly traumatic experience this weekend, one I will share in a thread, but this is about you, not me), and should for you, too. Don't let anyone devalue who you are!! I kind of hate to say this, cause I know you are trying, and are hurting, but when all is said and done, especially after your therapy session this week, which I suspect will be more of the same: Some people's respect is not worth fighting(or begging) for. Respect yourself. Love yourself. Try to believe that being a cd (whether active or not) doesn't lessen the real person you are at all. I'm not telling you to stop trying to save your relationship, but to do it with the dignity you deserve.

Hugs,

Melissa :)

[MelissaAndProudOfIt]

Well firstly I am single, though I can fully understand, as much as a single person can in your dilemma. There are two things to be dealt with, you bi feelings for one, and your dressing to follow.

Re your feelings as far as I am concerned Bi, Gay or Straight I too say we are all human. To deny our feelings to others is one thing, but self denial can be much more hurtful. Each and everyone of ourselves should love ourselves for what and who we are, regardless of sexual preference. After all we cannot be held responsible for our feelings.

Re your dressing and your wife.. Ok this matter can be recovered, but please remember this.. You yourself took years to come to terms albeit to a degree about your dressing, so patience, tact and understanding with her perspective might be a plus... all's not lost I am sure, she was shocked this is true.. but time can be a great healer... you both have loads of love for each other anyhow, so lets hope that that light gets going and starts getting brighter again. Just be honest, caring and loving as much as you can, but please be aware of things from her perspective too. So long as you do that I am sure things will come back together for you. Just talk when the time feels right, and give her personal space too.... It will take time...... after all it took you time to realise what your feelings were, so you can't expect her to come to terms with it inside of 24 hrs... Remember Faith, Love and Honesty goes an incredibly long way.... I wish you all the luck in the world...

[Elysia]

Kristi, I feel I should point out that a very small amount of time has past. I’m sure it feels like an eternity but really it’s only been three days. You will get through this and you will be ok, but it will take time. Remember, you are a precious person, you bring to the world gifts that only you can bring, you carry burdens that only you can carry, you are needed and you are loved. This is equally true of your wife. There’s no way to know how things will turn out, but if you are honest with yourself and others and you are kind to yourself and others, then you will be ok. You will have many ups and downs as this plays out; don’t let them throw you off. Make sure you eat and try to get some sleep. Here’s a trick that works for me. When it’s all so overwhelming, stop trying to see into the future and just focus on doing the next right thing, small things, one after another… take a calming breath, go make a sandwich.

[Kristi_Satin]

Well todays the day we have counselling together and i cant help feel that ive just gotten out of our marriage bed for the last time.


I feel a steely determination in her that she wants to purge herself of me.

We went into the city yester day and walked around and it fealt uncomfortable. I tried to hold her hand and i know she didnt like it. She wouldn't meet my gaze but when she did i fealt something in her eyes but it wasn't love.

This may be the wrong forum as it may be that the issue isnt crossdressing but that she simply does not love me any more.

If so, I have lost something so wonderful.

[Melissa A.]

I wish you luck, Kristi, in your counseling today. I hope you get everything out of it that you can.

Maybe you have lost something wonderful, maybe not. Time will tell. One thing I can say, is that right NOW it is not something wonderful. And right now, she is not all that wonderful, either. And that is not all your fault. I'm not there, and maybe don't know every detail, but it seems to me that holding your hand is an honor that she doesn't really deserve right now. I know its hard not to be true to your feelings, but showing an ice cold person neediness is probably not in your best interest, either when it comes to saving the relationship, or your currently fragile self esteem.

If this relationship is to be saved, it needs to be on terms that work for BOTH of you, not just her. Your self-worth, dignity, and happiness are just as important as hers. Whatever happens, please remember that.

I wish you all the strength and luck in the world, Kristi. My PM box is always open, if you ever just need a shoulder, or an ear.

Hugs,

Melissa :)

[º’~\_…trace GG…_/~’º]

You yourself took years to come to terms albeit to a degree about your dressing, so patience, tact and understanding with her perspective might be a plus...

this is the most sensible thing i've read in this thread.

it took you years to come to terms with yourself, so it follows that it will take your wife some time.

i know it feels like she is deserting you emotionally, but imagine for a minute what she must be feeling. those feelings of betrayal you're feeling, she has them tenfold. she won't look you in the eye because she's afraid of who she might see there.

your wife isn't ready to deal with this yet and certainly isn't ready to be hurried along to understand. the only feeling i can equate it too is being dumped. first there is the pitiful 'why me? what did i do to deserve this?' feeling, then there is the 'oh woe is me' sad time and this is followed by a really angry phase before any kind of terms can be reached.

i know you feel like you've already lost her, but understand that she feels like she has lost you too and more than that, that she doesn't even know who you are, what motivates you or what is going on in your head.

i *do* think that this might resolve itself in a positive way (depending on how your counselling goes today), but i think you need to give your wife some space to come to terms with things in her own time.

be ready to answer questions and try with all of your might to carry on showing her that you still love her. give it your best shot.

i hope everything works out for you *hug*

[Melissa A.]

Wait a minute. I'm all for being patient and understand that the news that you are married to a crossdresser can be a shock. I have said before that care, patience and affection is called for in these situations.

But Kristi's wife has known for five years. I'm not saying that she has an obligation to be enthusiastically on board, but being icey cold and non communicative, after all this time, is just plain wrong, in my opinion.

Hugs,

Melissa :)

[Tristen Cox]

Well todays the day we have counselling together and i cant help feel that ive just gotten out of our marriage bed for the last time.


I feel a steely determination in her that she wants to purge herself of me.

We went into the city yester day and walked around and it fealt uncomfortable. I tried to hold her hand and i know she didnt like it. She wouldn't meet my gaze but when she did i fealt something in her eyes but it wasn't love.

This may be the wrong forum as it may be that the issue isnt crossdressing but that she simply does not love me any more.

If so, I have lost something so wonderful.
Wrong forum? I think not. We're always here for support. I'm going to be honest with you. Sounds like she has let this kill her feelings over time. Right now she seems to be realizing it as well as you. It is not your fault, although it's not really hers either.

Things don't get bottled up for years without doing some kind of damage :( I am truely sorry.

[PaulaJeanette]

Kristi,

Oh, how my heart goes out to you and your wife. I am in a similar situation and can only begin to understand your trepidation. It is good that you've found a therapist that can provide you supportive advice to guide you through this crisis.

As I've written in another thread, I am about to embark down the road of disclosure regarding my 57 years of a crossdresser's life. I will be educating my wife as well as myself as we attack this issue together. At this point, I can only hope my wife does not hold deep resentments (whether for me, my crossdressing, or other reasons) for which we can never recover.

Be strong and believe you can make it through...for this too shall pass.

Paula J.

[º’~\_…trace GG…_/~’º]

But Kristi's wife has known for five years. I'm not saying that she has an obligation to be enthusiastically on board, but being icey cold and non communicative, after all this time, is just plain wrong, in my opinion.

it hasn't exactly been a worry-free 5 years though, has it?

she found out 5 years ago and it obviously hit her hard. she tried to go along with it but couldn't hack it. when she found the clothes a while later, she was still angry - did she know that the cding was still happening?

my point is that if it had just been a case of 'i'm a cd, let's deal with it' all those years ago, then her behaviour would be considered very unreasonable now.

it wasn't that straight forward however, there were quite a few untruths and not-quite-truths tangled into the 'reveal' to try to ease the immediate situation.

i'm not trying to be callous here, i hope my comments didn't come across that way. i'm simply trying to give kristi a little insight into how hard it may be for a gg in this situation, just as you are giving your insight into the cd side of things.

[Selina]

Hi Kristi,

I think Melissa A. is making a lot of sense.

Stop thinking of yourself as 'the problem', because you're not. You're you, and if CDing is part of you, then it's part of you. It's not as if you decided to do it in order to get at her. And in all probability, it's not something you can ever stop doing.

I understand the shame and embarrassment that often goes along with CDing (been there - haven't we all?), but please don't let anyone (especially yourself) tell you that what you do is wrong, because it just isn't.

But hang on, if there's nothing wrong with it - why are (many of us, at least at first) embarrassed about it? Well look at it this way - would you be embarrassed if nobody else was bothered in the slightest whether you CD'ed? Probably not. But you'd still be doing the same thing... So (for me at least, and I'm assuming the same applies to others), it's not embarrassing because it's 'wrong' (it isn't), it's embarrassing because of the way people who don't understand it will react. And I think that those 'people who don't understand it' include ourselves at first, which doesn't help our case one bit.

It sounds to me that part of your problem is that you don't feel comfortable with your CDing yourself yet, and this makes me worry that you are going to incorrectly feel that it is you that is to blame and that you are doing wrong.

I think that the only real argument she can make is that you haven't been completely truthful and open to her. And that's a fair point. But you can apologise for not telling her, and explain why you didn't tell her.

But don't apologise for being a CD, any more than you would apologise for anything else about yourself that you didn't choose, but which is a part of you.

I really hope you can save your marriage, but don't do it at the cost of denying yourself. I hope that your session goes/went well today.

Keep talking...

Hugs, Selina.

[Melissa A.]

Hi Trace,

Maybe you are right. I certainly hold alot of stock in a GG point of view. And I'm not saying Kristi shouldn't still be patient, and give her space to work this through. But she is also dealing with a wife, as far as I can tell, who is being exceedingly cold and not trying very hard, to the extent that she accused Kristi of editing the posts here.

You didn't sound callous, and another point of view is always welcome. I suppose the answer lies somewhere in between, and you have given me stuff to think about. I guess it hasnt been a worry free five years. I hope they find their way succesfully.

Sorry, Kristi, to talk about you like you aren't here. Just trying to help.

Hugs,

Melissa :)

[Kristi_Satin2]

Sorry everyone. This is me again. I'm at work and couldn't remember my password and dont have access to the email the password was sent to.

I just have a point that I'm going to raise today at conselling (amoung about a million) although I want her to talk as its about her too.

But she keeps saying that 99% of woman in her position would leave. I argued about what facts I've been given and what you have said here. So she said if she asked EVERY woman she knows what they would do if their husband was a crossdresser, all of them would say it creeped them out or thay would leave or both or whatever.

I told her it was unfair to use a hypothetical (although I do).

But my point is, ok, ask all your friends what would they do if there husband is a crossdresser. But also you have to ask them all, "Do you know IF your husband is a cross dresser?" Obviously all will say NO.

What I am saying is you cant use a hypothetical because how many womaen actually DONT KNOW??? So they cant say how they would react until it actually affects them.

Shit, when I talk to other guys about some of the things thathave happened they all say the same thing. "Yeah I know its hard. Change the locks man, screw her? " Now thats not all of them. But they arent in my position and if they were they would give different answers.

I would'nt totally agree that she has been cold, although I may have indicated that. But I'll go to touch her and there feels like there a hesitation there but she certainly wont initiate any touching and sitting oun the couch she cant get fare enough away from me it seems. However the other night when I came home from the psych and did try to avoid her as I thought that is what she wanted and she told me off as she said I deliberately avoided her?????? :(

Look I have asked to read these posts and have sent her the link but if she does or doesnt I dont know.

But MIA if you do read this, and I truly hope you do, know that I love you with every essence of my being. You have given me life and every ounce of me is committed to you. Please dont prejudge me on this alone. And if there ARE other issues, no matter how big or painful, talk to me, lets work through them and try to regain some of what we had.

If not, if we cant claw back any ground, at least let me help you be happy with yourself. :(

[º’~\_…trace GG…_/~’º]

But she keeps saying that 99% of woman in her position would leave. I argued about what facts I've been given and what you have said here. So she said if she asked EVERY woman she knows what they would do if their husband was a crossdresser, all of them would say it creeped them out or thay would leave or both or whatever.

how many gg's are there here that disprove this?

i am one and i know of at least a handful of others that have found out in a similar way that your wife did.

sure, it may have freaked us out a little, but we were committed to making an already loving relationship better and so turned up here and tried to learn more.

blind panic and denial just doesn't work.

i hope your wife does come and read the comments here. i think there's a pretty good variety of comments that show just how uncertain it all is. it's one of those things that takes some things that can't be measured: sensitivity and time.

best wishes kristi and to mia too.

[Kristi_Satin2]

how many gg's are there here that disprove this?

i am one and i know of at least a handful of others that have found out in a similar way that your wife did.


best wishes kristi and to mia too.


WOW. Another GG. Thank you so much.

I can't belive the support and even some of the negative stuff, which is still constructive. I am finding myself checking this forum regulary and even have it open at work which I have NEVER done, hence having to re register.

[Melissa A.]

Kristi, you are, if nothing else, a tremendously sincere and loving individual. I hope she sees that in you, and you two find your way.

And I do hope she has come here and read the comments. We are here whenever you need us. I wish you all the best.

Hugs,

Melissa :)

[Kristi_Satin2]

Sorry to labour the point but this is an outlet for me if nothing else.
But at the end of conversations theres always an "I love you" Its habit, I know and I usually say it first although if I don't she always throws it in but there s a sort of "OK then, I love you" just to get him off the phone.

This is splitting hairs but I still feel she is doing alot to "humour" me and ensure that I don't do anything silly.

She has said she doesnt know what to say in case it upsets me. Shit, seeing a mother and a pram upsets me. If someone asks me, "you right mate" I fall apart. I mean "I" dont know what upsets me. I've just asked her to be honest. Even that scares me for I feel if she is honest, whatever she tells me will shock and destroy me, but it may enlighten and fill me with joy. Who knows.

I don't.

[Holly]

Kristi,

Please remember this one thing... this is NOT at all about winning or losing. It is ALL about loving and commitment and honor... putting the needs of your partner above your own... with an understanding that it is a two way street! I assume that when you both were married, certain commitments (vows, if you will) were made to one another... for better or worse, in sickness or in health, for richer or for poorer, 'til death do you part. Sound familiar? Now, either the TWO of you meant those things, or you didn't. And if you did, a detour will not alter your destination.

There can be no ME in a marriage, only a WE. Neither partner of the couple can demand that things be one way or another. Ultimatims cannot be part of a functioning maritial relationship. You know that, and in her heart, Mia knows this, too. Maybe it's time the two of you reflect on just what it was that drew you to one another in the first place, when you were so helplessly and hopelessly and desperately in love with one another. It just might put the current situation in a different light. Just a thought...

[melissacd]

Kristi,

I am sorry that I have not posted sooner than this, but I am here now.

In reading your posts I feel like I am living what happened to me 8 years ago. At that time my wife found out, accidentally, that I cross dressed, she freaked out.

She cried, she felt betrayed, she threw out all my stuff, she told me to stop, she would not look at me or talk to me or touch me. She was disgusted by me. She was dazed and confused. I found all sorts of information to give her to help her understand, I was open to going to therapy or couples counseling, I was willing to show her websites, find SO's of other cross dressers for her to talk to. I wrote her a letter pouring my heart and soul out to her. She would have none of it. Her mind was completely closed on the matter.

She told me to stop cross dressing...and I did. For at least a year after that she would barely talk to me, she would barely touch me, she did not treat me lovingly at all. I continued not to cross dress and we never spoke about it. Whenever a show would come on TV that had any hit of cross dressing in it she would freak out.

Over time, she has come back to me in the sense that she shows affection, we make love again, although much less than we did. She is now on anti-depressants because it still bothers her to this day...and still we never discuss the matter.

After a number of years I started, in hiding, cross dressing again. She almost caught me and so I threw everything out and stopped cross dressing again. The closest I get to cross dressing these days is related to this online forum.

We are still together and it is still not discussed and there is still no closure.

She still professes to love me and yet I am pretty certain if I brought the subject up again, she would freak out.

During this 8 years, I have tried without success to repress my cross dressing urges to the point where I am unhappy much of the time and have great feelings of resentment towards her. I find now that although she wants to make love I have little interest in it anymore. I cannot perform very well and I know why. She asks if something is wrong and I make up some lame excuse. She knows I am full of shit, but she never digs deeper because she knows what I will say is wrong. So we avoid discussing it and it festers.

I have fallen out of love and lost respect for her. It took reading things on this forum and 8 years of pain to come to the realization that this is something that needs to be resolved. I can never have a good relationship with her if I cannot get past this. I know that I will not stop being a cross dresser so if I cannot find a way to get her to accept this then for all intents and purposes my marriage is over. It has taken me eight hard years to realize this.

I say all this because I am pretty sure that if you don't deal with this now, while the wounds are fresh that you will live a very troubled life. You are a cross dresser. There is nothing wrong with that. She needs to apprecaiate that too.

I can understand that she is feeling betrayed, scared, disgusted and so much more, but if she truelly loves you then she needs to learn to accept all of who you are. You are still the loving, caring cuddly person she knew before she found this out.

Now this does not mean forcing it down her throat. This will take a lot of time for her to come to grips with, just don't sell yourself short. Don't make the mistake that I made 8 years ago.

My advice, as painful as this may be, is:

- make sure she understands how much you love her and how much you want to have her in your life, because it sounds like you do
- be open to all of her questions and answer them honestly, however, make it clear that you are a cross dresser, will always be a cross dresser, that you are still the same person, that you cannot change who you are, always show her that you love her
- agree to ground rules on your cross dressing, there are lots of good websites that talk about how to set ground rules, but those ground rules must make both of you feel comfortable, if she does not want to participate, know about it, see you dressed up, that is fine, but she has to accept that you are who you are and you will cross dress in private or perhaps at a cross dressers group meeting - what she cannot demand is that you stop, cause it does not work
- if she is open to it then let her talk to significant others of other cross dressers, let her go to meetings to ask questions and feel this out

You may be lucky and she may eventually, with enough love, information and open mindedness come around to accept it, who knows, maybe even embrace it. I believe, that something like this can be an opportunity to make your relationship deeper, richer, more fulfilling. The opposite can be true if you repress who you are - some day you will learn to hate her for it.

She may never come around. That is a possibility you must accept. She may totally reject it...then you must choose. Trust me when I say, if you choose to turm your back on who you are it will haunt you. I know, I am living this right now.

I have written this as much for you as for me. I am looking at this situation and trying to determine my own plan of how to move this 8 year old unresolved issue back onto the table.

I wish you all the best and hope for a positive outcome.

Hugs
Melissa

[Kristi_Satin2]

Melissa, thank you for your openess and honesty.

I feel she has closed her heart. I tolder the other night after the psych that I was comfortable finally as the psych assured me I wasnt sick or perverted. But she has closed her mind to it I feel.

While I hear what everyone says that I can't stop I feel two things.

If I love her so deeply it should be easy to give it up.

However, if she love me (which at the moment I doubt) she will accept it and at least try to get over it.

But I also feel she has TRIED to get over it in her own way without support and has badly crashed and burned and now I am the one paying.

I am about to leave work and go to the counsellor. I'd made some notes but left them at home so will have to follow my heart.

I am truly truly truly scared.

[Holly]

Kristi,

Don't be scared! Be confident in who you are. You are a caring, compassionate, loving individual. You have much to offer ANYONE. Please let us lnow how it goes.

[melissacd]

Melissa, thank you for your openess and honesty.

I feel she has closed her heart. I tolder the other night after the psych that I was comfortable finally as the psych assured me I wasnt sick or perverted. But she has closed her mind to it I feel.

While I hear what everyone says that I can't stop I feel two things.

If I love her so deeply it should be easy to give it up.

However, if she love me (which at the moment I doubt) she will accept it and at least try to get over it.

But I also feel she has TRIED to get over it in her own way without support and has badly crashed and burned and now I am the one paying.

I am about to leave work and go to the counsellor. I'd made some notes but left them at home so will have to follow my heart.

I am truly truly truly scared.


I can appreciate that you are scared. This is a very scary thing to go through.

Even though you love her, it will never be easy to give it up, so I suggest that you don't. You will regret it if you do. I hate to sound crass, but you should not have to give up your soul to be with your soulmate. You must be true to who you are. Trust me that you will resent her for asking you to give up cross dressing in return for her love...and by the way, your love will never be the same again once she has put conditions on it. That is a very important consideration.

On the other point, give her time to get over it. This will not happen quickly. Just be patient with her, be firm about who you are, but be patient with her and allow her to get used to the idea. She is going through her own process right now. Be supportive, just don't give up on who you are. It is a tough balancing act, but for the first time in my life I have realized that too.

Hang in there...

Hugs
Melissa - sister in troubled times

[Elysia]

I think it’s interesting that your wife is stressing the idea of ‘what 99% of women would do.’ I think she’s wrong about that but I have no basis for my belief other than the knowledge that my wife hasn’t left me and that there seem to be a fair number of others that contribute here who are both happily married and open with their spouses about their cross-dressing.

What 99% of women would do should be irrelevant, but of course it’s not. What other people think, or what we think others will think, is important to us all. If I didn’t care about what people think, I’d wear a dress to work, but I’m not going to.

Perhaps, one of Mia’s concerns is that your cross-dressing will expose both of you to the effects of prejudices that are unfortunately quite real. This was a concern for my wife. She was fine with me cross-dressing but was obviously relieved when I told her I was quite happy to confine myself to the privacy of our home. I think she would be worried if I, for example, decided to wear a dress to work. There are extended family members and some friends of ours who might react negatively if they knew, I don’t know that for sure, but there's no point in taking that risk. My point here is that what I do in this regard will affect us both and I need to consider that.

For me cross-dressing is a way to express who I am, if I try to repress that part of me, it will find other, less controlled, ways to express. So accepting and appreciating cross-dressing has been a health way to be me. Mia’s concern maybe that if she accepts your cross-dressing she could be opening a flood gate of uncontrollable debauchery that will eventual sweep her life, as she knows it, away. That sounds melodramatic but fear thinks this way. If she were reassured that this is not the case, that cross-dressing is a health method of self expression and that conscious acceptance is a way to avoid melodramatic out picturing, then she might feel differently about it.

When we repress things, pressure builds up and things leak out in strange ways. We sense the intensity of this pressure and wonder what would happen if we just let it all out; will it be like Pandora’s Box? When we finally do let it out there is an initial shockwave but without continued repression, pressure does not continue to build. We do not, it turns out, find ourselves dealing with an uncontrollable force. Instead we find the whole system is more balanced.

I hope that analogy made sense. My point is, that a SO can sense the intensity of that pressure and can be afraid of its consequences. Let her know this is about getting balanced.

Anyway… if you feel that you can limit yourself to expressing in the privacy of your home—I sense from your postings that you can—make sure you tell her that.

I hope this works out well for you and Mia. I read hope between the lines. If she was dead set against working things out, she wouldn’t bother with counseling and she wouldn’t be getting upset about you ‘avoiding her.’

[Krissi]

It's time for her to put this 99% of women thing to rest. She can ask all the friends she wants, even if they are into it, they are not going to tell the truth. No one is honest to friends about their fetishes, from anything as simple as spankings to crossdressing. Not to mention what kind of friends did she ask the question to? My wife and I have several friends that are very big in the baptist church (as a lot of folks in Texas are), ask them what they think and they are of course going to grill you on the wrongs of it all (no matter what they do at home).

Its funny how she can't respect you for not telling her and crossdressing in the first place, but my question to you is how can you respect her when she is hiding her feelings from you? She has other issues with you, but uses this as her excuse because it's easy. It's embarrassing to you, she sees that everytime the conversation starts.

Several of the girls here that have been through this, and have been offering great advice. Kristi, I think you've come a long way just these past few days. I was very worried about you last week, but you seem to be getting stronger as time goes by. I know there are good days and bad days. I just hope you guys get a good start in the session today.

Good luck, I'm thinking about you!

[Holly]

Kristie, hon, what's going on?

[MelissaAndProudOfIt]

Hiya kristi ,

Sorry to learn that things haven't improved much yet, though as i have already said, it has taken years for you to come to terms with your dressing. If she has any love for you, which she must have as she married you. Give her some space not just a week or two, Don't forget you both have pent up feelings at the moment, give it time and I really am sure she will miss being so close to you... things will improve, but they will take time. Just remember this also, whatever time it does take, it will be quicker than you yourself took too I am sure.. Patience is most definently the virtue here.

I am sorry to learn of what you're going through, I sincerely hope and pray that things will work out at the end of the day.. not today! but very soon. Time is a great healer....

I don't know where you live, however if you live in the UK have you tried contacting R.E.L.A.T.E marriage guidance.. and similar associations... they have people that can provide invaluable advice, worth a try.


Take Care

Wish you both well

Melissa :)

[Krissi]

Has anyone heard how the big counselling session went?

[Kristi_Satin]

She admitted there is another man. I have just been released from a mental hospital where I was an involuntary patient.


Sprroy to have waisted all you time.

However, so many people now know I am crossdresser and I am no longer so ashamed.

[DonnaT]

Wow, that really sucks. Here you are trying hard to work things out and here she is limiting your CDing while at the same time seeing someone else.

You've nothing to be ashamed of. Can't say the same for her though.

Her loss Kristi.

You didn't waste anyone's time, that's for sure. That is what we are here for, support.

Keep your wits about you and don't let it get you down, please. If you feel depressed, don't be afraid to let it out here.

[Tristen Cox]

I'm so sorry you had to go through all that to find out, but you didn't waste our time or yours. Every word counts. Like Donna said we're all here to offer support, anytime day or night. I'm glad you're feeling up to posting. Thank you for letting us know what happened.

[Dana]

Because this is going to be a long one!

I went through the same thing, the only variation being that I was career military. With fourteen years in at the time that it went down! Not just career military, but "elite" career military, (one of the many ways that I've tried denying my femninie side!)

I to voluntarly checked myself into a military pysch ward. Because I was just as much homicidial as I was sucidial!

Crossdressing was an issue, as it was in my last long term relationship.

Went through the divorce, the bankruptcy, the alienation of the children, all of that! The worse was yet to come! Years and years of depression and alcholism. Was up to a fifth a day! The depression has lasted for years!

That was 15 years ago!

Retired from the military! (Thank God!) and now I'm back out here in civilian la~la land! Got a good job! I like the people that I work with and for! Its low stress, no stress, I like my job! Between it and my military retirement and benefits, I'm doing as good or as well as I've ever done!

I'm not where I want nor need to be at in my life, but I've got the horse and buggy out of the ditch and back on the road!

After my divorce, I re-bounded into another realtionship with another "traditional" gal for six and half-years! It ended, because she too couldn't tote the note on my crossdressing!

Basically, all I accomplished by getting involved with her, was to post-pone the inevetiable!

She and I broke up seven years ago! I haven't been in a relationship with another woman since.

Until I meet Brenda! One night in a drunken stuppor, I walked in where she worked and walked up to her (after having known her for two or three years) walked up to her, grabbed her, and kissed the Hell out her!

In a more sober momnet, I pushed her away, and then I told her my secert! And, she loves it! I'm the first CD that she's ever meet or been with and loves it! And wants to take it to the next level!

They are women out there! Who not only can accept, but who are enthuastic about not so much femininity in men, but finding men who have softer, more emotional, more giving, sides, and if CD'ing is part of that package so be it!

Because I was career military, and was trying to save my career and my retirement, (worth about half a million dollars), I hung myself on a lover's cross through the divorce, and gave the ex everything, with the sitpulation that she wavier any and all rights to my military benefits! The rest she could have!

What, I'm trying to say here is there is live after divorce! There's no shortage of women! The place is covered up with them! And, just as there are all kinds of races of people, there are kinds of types of women! Some are intolerant of CD'ing! Some are tolerant, although albiet barely! Some are totally accepting! Some are even enthuastic! If for nothing else, life is very, and I do mean very diverse! This is not the end!

There can be no doubt the end of a long term relationship, let alone marriage is hard! All day hard! Espeically, when you truly and deeply love that person!


But from personal experience I can tell you, there's NO woman nor JOB worth being a drunk or a drug addict, nor KILLING yourself over! And, there's NO woman worth going to prision over, for having killed her lover!

This is what you need right now!

1. A really good counselor, who is schooled in transgendered issues! Not all of them are!

2. A really good lawyer! And, for him or her to be a good lawyer, you've got to lay it all out! The good! The bad! And the ugly! (Apply the same to the counselor!)

Having spent the last 15 years drinking, I would really, really recommend that you stay in counseling! In the end you'll find that there's nothing wrong with you, nor that you're NOT a pervert! Whatever occurs in the privacy of your home, between two consenting adults isn't wrong! And, its not any business of the state, nor the law!

Most crossdressers are heterosexuals, which in the end means that all they are is the male equivalent of "Tom-boys" nothing more and nothing less!

A lot of your wife's objecitions to your being a cross dresser, againist homosexuality, againist bi-sexuality and the "TABOO" of it is the consequence of 5,000 or 10,000 years of Western Civilization socialization and culturalization! Nothing more and nothing less!

Alot or people want to quote the King James version of the Bible, while not realizing that the Catholic Bible has, ( I believe) six more books than than the King James Bible. They don't even know about the Council of Constainaple where even more books were excluded, and don't even get started on the Gnostic Gospels! Without getting up and diving into my libary, (yes I have one) I believe it was the Book of James, (the half-brother of Christ) that said a man could not enter the Kingdom of Heaven unless he had been a woman, and a woman a man!" (Hints of re-incarnation)

I'm concerned about you! And, I care! I've been there! PROTECT YOURSELF!

KNOW THIS!!!!!! THERE IS LIFE!!!!! AND THERE IS HAPPINESS ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THIS! I KNOW! I SURVIED IT! I WENT THROUGH IT! I'VE WALED THROUGH THE FLAMES AND THE COALS OF IT!!!!

No! I'm not in a relationship! No, I'm not married! No! I'm not living with anyone! But you know what? I can finally be me! I can shave my legs, paint my toenails, wear makeup! I can wear women's intimates, and wear women's clothes! I can take a bubble bath, and be and get all girly-girly if I want, and I want to! I can go shopping! I can be be me! And if anyone has a problem with that, then that's what it is ~ they're problem!

And, I'm not going into another relationship without being straigh up honest about myself and who and what I am! This is me, this is what I am, and this is what I want and need in my life!

I'm part girl! That doesn't make me a bad person, it makes me a better person, and if you've got a problem with that, then that's what it is!!!!! Your problem! Not mine!

I think that what you need to get wrapped around your head is this ~ You're a good and decent human being! You try to do and be the right thing! In most things and in all things! You're trying to do right by your wife, and you're trying to do right by your marriage,and by your marriage vows!

Part of the issues is her conception of reality about what it means to male and female! To be husband and wife! About what her role is and what her perceived role of you, as her husband is!

What's mind-boggling about all of this is, women's lib advocates have been screeming for years that they're much, much more than just the sum total of their parts! Well, that works both ways! I'm much, much more than just a penis, and an Mr. Fix-it!

Me? I don't have ALL of the answers to the questions! Me? I don't have all the solutions to all the problems? I'm not McGiver, I just can't wip out my Swiss Army knife and solve all the world's problems in 60 minutes! I just can't!

I know a lot of things about a lot of things! But, I don't know it all! I'm still learning! I'm still growing!

A big part of my crossdressing, begin with, .......................trying to understand women! "To know one,............become one!" I triied on my sister's panties! And, I like the feel of nylon! I liked it! I just like it! Is that so wrong?

I liked the cut! I liked the feel! I liked the lace! I liked the color! I liked the texture!

That lead to other things! Candles! Rommance! Songs!

That lead to AMBIANCE!

Being a CD hasn't made me less of a Man, its made more a human being!

WE care!

I care!

Stay in touch!

[Krissi]

Kristi, sweetie I am soo sorry that you had to go through all of this. Don't think for one moment that you wasted any of our times. We were here for YOU, not her. I would gladly spend all day long helping someone in trouble like you and not consider one second wasted.

Now you know what's going on, don't listen to her BS about Crossdressing being the reason. She cheated, no matter how she felt about you, she crossed that line on her own, don't let her blame that on you.

Keep your head up, take time for yourself, and please stay in touch. We look forward to hearing from you.

[Selina]

Kristi,
Sorry to hear the news - at least you know know what's really been going on now.

Just wanted to add my voice to those letting you know that in no way have you wasted anyone's time here. You asked for help, so we tried to provide it. No problem. Us girls have got to stick together and help each other where we can. Please keep in touch with us - we're all supporting you.

Have a big virtual hug from the other side of the planet from me.

Selina.

P.S. Dana: Very good post.

[Holly]

Kristie,

A waste of time? No way! When one of us hurt, we all hurt. You have the knowledge that you have taken the high road. It is your wife who has commited the ultimate deception... infidelity. I hope you will take to hert the advise Dana gave you... it's rock solid. Find a counselor who understands YOUR issues and an attorney to protect yourself. I would add one more... Check in with us here often. You will not find a greater source of support than you will find right here. We know what you are and we love you for it. Baby steps, girlfriend. Start taking them. Before you know it, you'll have your full stride back. And we'll help you every step of the way!

[Kristi_Satin]

Hi everyone.


Well got released from the psych ward yesterday. I did a few silly things a called a few people that I shouldnt have but my mum and my mother in law and my sister know im a crosdresser and they said "Big Deal"

Another bout of marriage counselling today and im afraid I think all is loat. I think she has been telling everyone its over but IM NOT GETTING IT, I dont know.

she has told me she is not leaving me for another man but its symantecs really. SAYS SHE HAS FALLEN out of love for me and its just coincidence that he comes along.

She has told me so many things over the pas few days that I have or havent done and it appears my greatest crime was that I loved her too much. Plain and simple. What she saw as smothering I saw as protecting, that sort of thing.

Anyway, this other guy is married 20 years with 3 kids and tells her he is gunna leave is wife for her. Sorry, but isnt that the second biggest lie after "its only a wart, I promise?"

I may have lost her forever, I dont know We are having a brak for a week or two but I feel that only gives the other guy more time to get his hooks in. I mean while I was in a psych ward, she admitted kissing him at work. What a cow.

Anyway. I feel she is headed for a very big fall when this guy pounds her a few times and decides he isnt leaving his wife after all. and guess who will have to pick up the peices? Well not this little black duck.

She has destroyed me and removed any faith or trust i ever had in anyone. I adore the wmoman but my heart will only split into so manhy peices.

Sorry to vent. I thought I was a good husband and my life has been a lie.

I love you Mia. Do you still love me? Truly? Has he left his wife yet? Lets takes bets everyone.

[Krissi]

Kristi,

I have a very good friend that is having the, "I'll leave my wife for you" game being played to her right now. She is recently divorced, was looking for passion and fell for one of her best friends hubby. No he's stringing her along, and she's getting in catfights with her friend that she's known for years. I don't know how often the I'll leave my wife for you actually works out, but I bet you it fails a lot closer to 99% of the time than her thought of 99% of the women hate crossdressers.

Your wife is a selfish idiot, the more and more she does, the more she proves it to you. She's doing what any cheater does, blames the spouse for a lack of passion, respect, whatever excuse they want and uses that excuse to justify their indescretions. Now all we're waiting on is her to come back in a few weeks when it's clear even to her that she's being played and gives you the old standby...."It didn't mean anything." I read an interesting article on cheating a few weeks ago and one of the main points was the It didn't mean anything line is a load of BS. It means they were willing to risk everything thats supposedly important to them for something that was meaningless. I wish I knew where that article was, I'd link you to it, it was very insightful.

I think it's funny all the people who are saying big deal about your being a crossdresser. That was obviously the card she was using to isolate you and turn everyone against you. I'm glad to see while they may not support you (I don't know from what you said) it doesn't appear that they are ridiculing you either.

Soo, continue the therapy, spend some time on you. Doing things you like, I know its hard not to think of her, just make sure you remember yourself in all of this and who you are and who you want to be.

[DonnaT]

Kristi

Here's a web site that might be of interest: http://www.infidelity.com/home/homepage.htm

[Wendy me]

call old fashon say what you might but a lot of things could be fixed if people stuck to no dateing while your marryed ....

[Melissa A.]

Kristi, All of us here have you in our hearts. I said before-it doesn't seem to me that you deserve this, not over crossdressing.Like your much more sensible relatives said, "big deal!"

I know your heart is breaking, and it's a terrible, lonely feeling. But you are not alone. You have us here, your therapist, and obviously other relatives who don't think you have done anything terribley wrong. Hang on to that. You also have the knowledge that there are literally millions like you who have been through similar circumstances before. You are anything but alone.

Please don't blame yourself for someone else's actions. Your spouse needs to know that infidelity is not even in the same category as crossdessing. Unfortunately, I believe that the only way to let her know that is to let her know, as much as it may hurt, that you need to take care of yourself now, and don't have time for her games. I know, honey, that that is easier said than done. It is hard to let go. But if anyone has given you reason, she has.

I thought that in this day and age, the only way to end up in a psychiatric center involuntarilly was to commit a crime, or hurt or threaten to hurt someone or yourself. If you do not want to discuss it, I understand. But I also want to add that nothing, and especially no one, is worth hurting yourself over. You deserve to be happy, and alive. I sense in your words that you have a sense about your crossdressing that is pretty healthy, ie; you know it isn't wrong or dangerous or illegal, and hurts no one. You can't control how others react to things, just love yourself and try to believe that you are worthy of other's love. Don't give up, sister, we care.

My thoughts are with you.

Hugs,

Melissa :)

[Sigrid]

Sorry to vent. I thought I was a good husband and my life has been a lie.

I haven't seen anything posted here to indicate that you were anything but a good husband. This isn't about you or you're CD'ing, it's only about her infidelity. I agree with Krissie in that she just used your CD'ing to rationalize her indescretions.

Hopefully, you'll find the worst is now behind you. Yeah, there still going to be alot of hurt and resentment, but I think you can control that now you better understand the root of the problem. You have begun to establish a good network of support here, with your therapist and it sounds like you've got a supporting mother. We're all here for you.

best wishes,

~Sigrid

[Kristi_Satin2]

Thanks for all your support. Here is all the guff.

I have told you she confronted me with some of my stuff and told me she didnt love me the same. Ok we have discussed that. But why my snooping and suspicion?

A few weeks ago I sensed something was wrong. Dont know but I did. I figured she had found some of my clothes and was upset so I pushed and pushed, you know, "whats wrong" And got the "nothing" answer.

By chance I checked my phone bill. Dont normally give it a second glance but noticed a local and a mobile number recurring.

I rang one of them to be answered by a male. I thought this strange.
When I confronted her about the mobile she said she didnt know who the mobile number was.

I finally confronted her about the phone number and she said it was a guy at work she had been calling "just to talk". Like an idiot i believed her but still wasnt sure.

The calls kept appearing.

So I called the guy and spoke to him calmly and he said he was married )20 years) and from my wife I gained that they had 3 kids. I asked the guy to "back off" as we were going to counselling. I also said that if it didnt work out for us and they ended up together well then it was for the right reasons and not behind everyones back.

I finally put to her in couselling that she had feelings for this guy and she said yes. I asked if she loved him and she said yes.

End result? 5 days as a mental patient for me.

Prior to being admitted, I asked her a lot of questions telling her she couldnt hurt me any more so may as well be truthfull.

Thats when she told me that he had said he loved her. That they had kissed but no sex. I asked her about receipts for lingerie and a new outfit I found and she admitted they had planned a night in a motel although now she says that probably wont happen. I asked if he was going to leave his wife and she said he had said that he will.

She has also admitted that she has kissed him in the back office at work and also kissed him while I was in hospital.

Now at the moment, Im in a single motel room, (paid for by my employer), I have promised not to contact her for a week and she will only let me see the kids if someone else is there.


I don't kniow what legal proceedings she is planning. Lots I bet.

But she is now free to do what she will.

But theres the story.

Whoes the idiot??? I guess me.

[Krissi]

Sweetie, don't sulk around. You are not an idiot. You didn't do anything wrong. I had an uncle that I was very fond of, his motto was "F$&K em, I didn't take em to raise" When the stress and everything starts getting to you, and it will in a motel trust me, just remember that phrase. She's made her decision, you've fought valiantly for her. Some of the steps you've gone through would make most women fall for you. Just keep the tought that she's not going to end up with him in the back of your mind, mark my words it won't happen.

You have options yourself. My evil side is dying to tell you to rat out the guy to his wife. Oohh how things hit the fan when a wife finds out things like that. My evil side also wants to tell everyone about her lil infidelity, yeah crossdressing can be embarrasing, but so can the "Scarlet A" Wow I'm so mad at her for you right now I can't come up with any good advice, just my lil evil tid-bits. I'm sure some of the other girls will have more rational options for you.

I'll end with what I'm always saying. Relax, take it slow, and make sure you take care of yourself.

[Kristi_Satin2]

Hi everyone.

Look. I appreciate all comments and help I really do, but sometimes the best thing to do it go with your heart.

I love this woman with my very essence and I cant just give up.

I received legal advice today that I should return to the house. I said shove it in your bum. I made a commitment to my wife that I would leave her be for a while and thats what UI will do. I would rather gamble my financial future on the possibility of a second chance with this woman.

Sound silly but she assures me there has been no sex with the other guy and she is thinking of everthing, of us and I feel a new hope. Maybe very very premature but my god there is hope and I will grasp it and run with it.

Look, this may come back to bite me in the bum. She may have made her decision already and Im not part of it but just that glimmer of hope has lifted my spirits immensely.

I want the chance to court her again to show her what I can do, to build on what we have and make us strong again. While this may make her be repulsed, I have never, ever wanted to make love to a woman as much as I do her right now.

I think she is readin these posts but truly I am not writing to impress her, its what I feel.


Talking to her tonight I fealt that half our probblem if not all our probolem is no communication. So many things I wanted and want to say but just thought they're would be time tomorrow.

I am not religious but I pray to whatever god there is to grant me strength and help her find me in her heart.

It maybe false hope but hey, ill enjoy it while I can and it fells 500% better than the last week.

[Dragster]

Good luck Kristi, I hope you two can work this out. I know I'd feel the same about my wife (of 35 years) if I were in the same situation. Keep us up to date with developments.

Tony

[Elysia]

You are unquestionably in a difficult situation. I hope things work out well for you. Based on what you have told us now, it seems she has been manipulating the cross-dressing issue.

My reasoning mind tells me that there is nothing wrong with cross-dressing. There are plenty of people who have told me there is nothing wrong with cross-dressing; a counselor, a minister, all the wonderful people on this site, and most importantly my wife. Yet despite this, I still maintain a small reservoir of shame.

If someone were to recognize this and were to manipulate it; were to take advantage of it to hide their misdeeds; were to deliberately cause me pain just so that I’d be defensive and distracted… well let’s say, I’d have a hard time thinking fondly of them.

You have not been wasting our time, nor, I think, yours. Painful though it might be, you are moving through a time that calls for growth; in the long run, the outcome might well be good. Please let us know how you are doing. We are thinking about you and hoping things will work out well for you.

[DonnaT]

Very commendable Kristi, and I wish you good luck.

Note that even after you forgive her for her infidelity, there will remain the issue of her lack of respect for you for being a CD. In order for the relationship to continue, and to work out, she's going to have to come to grips with this issue. You know you can't quit, so she's going to need to understand that. It might take a good marriage councelor to get her to see that.

[Clare]

Holy S.....t, Kristi Satin, this is too close to home for me.

Although there is no other man that helped wreck our relationship, some of the things you wrote in last post seem too familair for my liking. Not identical mind you, but very similiar to my sitiuation. No cd/tv was involved in our split.

I loved my wife so much, i bought her everything she did and didn't want, gave her the best possible life i could offer to her, but it seems it wasn't enough.

I was on the phone to my stepson today and in my depressed state, i said i might commit suicide because I have nothing left - no wife, no 3yr boy, no furniture, no car and i'm about to lose my job! I think he took it very seriously because there is history of suicide in my family - my youngest brother 7 years ago. Within about 10 mins my Dad was on the phone trying to talk me out of it! My dad is too old to be getting frights like that at his age - I promised I wouldn't kill myself - besides, as I said to him, suicide is illegal!

It all came about because I was cleaning out my wifes closet and I could smell the scent of her clothes and makeup that lingers after things are removed. The familiar scents sent me into a spin and I broke down crying and wondering what else I could do.

Sorry to hijack your thread, but I know what you're going through - because I am too at the moment.

Hang in there kiddo - i'm lookin out for ya!

Christine

[Kristi_Satin]

Hi everyone.
Well I confronted her today as I fealt as though she had my life in her hands as I beleived she was making a decision about us. (Hopefully is was to be for us to try) But alas, the decision had already been made only I just didnt hear it the 4 times she previously told me.

We have split amicably although that hardly seems the right word as I am still very much in love, but she claims she has fallen out of love with me, (although the other guy didnt help.) But he seems decent though and it appears he HAS left his wife and has good intentions.

But I have lost my soulmate. The best thing that EVER happended to me and the realisation has just hit me in the cold hard light of 3.20 in the morning.

We are going to stay friends. How can you not with someone that has shared your innermost best and worst secrets, whose body you know just oh so perfectly inch by inch, whose smell calms you and whose presences enligtens your very soul.

She assures me she remained faithful and I beleive her so no infedelity needs to be forgiven.

I can't help think that maybe, just maybe I should have fought just a little bit harder and maybe I have given up too easily.

But the woman glowed today when finally she realised I was letting her free. She spoke of this new guy with a passion and it is obvious she has strong feelings...but for him and not I. So perhaps the fight was already lost

She has lost a great deal of weight due to the stress of it all (as have I) and she looked a million dollars when she went out the door to work tonight.

I am profoundly sad and yet am happy that the one I adore I have set free to be happy. That tells me that I was tuly, and deeply, in love.

I am no angel and I have definately made my mistakes, but I was blessed to have met, to have loved, and to have shared so much with this woman who it seemed I just did not fully appreciate until she had slipped through my fingers.

If any of you share a love half as deep as I shared you too should feel blessed.

They say it is better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.

FROGSHIT!

There is no cure for the pain I fell right now.

Mia, I hope you read this as it is as much a public declaration (although in a limited forum) as it is to you.

I have, do and always will love you with every ounce of my being. But you were a captured bird and I could but claim you for a fleeting moment. I have set you free through the strength of my love.

Be happy, be strong, and above all, be YOU.

Thank you all.

[DonnaT]

Sorry it didn't work out Kristi.

Stay strong and remain healthy.

I know you are going to go through a grieving process, and one of the steps usually include anger, so be forwarned and try to control it when it occurs.

BIG HUG

[Kristi_Satin]

I'm starting to regret this. I havent slept a wink and keep thinking I should have fought harder.

God it hurts so much.

I still want to be freinds and wont change our plans but my god it is so painful right now.

[Clare]

I admire your extreme effort to sustain your relationship. However, sometimes no matter how hard you try, these types of situations can only be resolved in the most difficult manner.

In the immediate future, you may blame yourself, blame your wife, wonder what you could have done differently, have mood swings, try to re-establish contact with your wife, and the like.

Stay near to your family - parents, bro/sis, and your closest friends for support at this difficult time.

Have faith that over time you will get over the grief and start to re-establish yourself in a new direction.

Its what i'm trying to do since my split up with my wife two weeks ago. I received an email from my wife via my stepson yesterday, saying once she and my 3yr old son are established interstate, she is willing to have joint counselling with me in order to find common ground for getting back together (which has given me a straw to clutch at), so there may be a future even when i thought is over.

Try to maintain a positive view on your life as it is now and in the future.

Christine.

[Kristi_Satin2]

All sounds good and I am doing all that but this other guy she has strong feelings for and it is really clouding her judgment and I dont think she can see that. I am truly afraid for her and it is a bbig wide world out there with three kids to look after.

[Stlalice]

Kristi,

There is nothing easy or painless about the situation that you are in. That said, the old line about how time is the cure to all problems has some truth. If you continue in therapy and work out your feelings and issues you WILL emerge as a stronger and better person. Come a future time when you find a new S/O you will have the strength to be honest with her from day one of the relationship. In the meantime I would suggest that you contact the International Foundation for Gender Education at www.ifge.org . Through thier quarterly magazine Transgender Tapestry and their bookstore you will find many materials that will be useful to educate both yourself and a potential S/O. They serve the entire spectrum of the TG/TS community and the staff is all TS and/or TG who have been there and done that. Also if you are not totally soured on organized religon I would recomend that you look up the the Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches at www.mccchurch.org . I would be willing to bet that there is one near you and they provide an excellent source of support and understanding. This I know from personal experience. Hang in there girl - I know times are tough - but in the end you will be a better person. :) :)

[Krissi]

I'm soo sorry to hear how things have ended for you. I know you have to be aching inside. Just keep your head up and remember you have other people in this world that love and care for you. It's going to hurt for a long time, but that pain will ease and life will bloom for you again.

[Andrea]

Losing someone you really love hurts like nothing on Earth. I lost a woman i really loved (and have never replaced) to a guy who said he was her 'friend' but was secretly working away at her to split us up.

When we fell out he would call her, offer sympath etc. As has been said 'putting the knife in'

I feel so sorry for Kristi, I've been there, done that. No kids though or house, but it seems Kristi is being punished for something which was not his fault. Life is not fair. :(

All I can say is time is a great healer, I still feel for this woman, now married to 'that man' but you MUST move on or your life will seem pointless. I know it hurts and it will do for ages, but you WILL survive, I promise.

Hold on tight to your family and ride the waves, there is a shore on the other side and a life there for you.

Take care matey.
Andrea XXX

[polished]

Kristi,

I’m sad to hear of your current situation, I'm not going to tell you to seek counselling or anything else, you've heard it all already and while it may have helped coming to terms with what has happened this is going to be a long drawn out process.

17 years having loved the same person and the fruit of that love in your 3 kids is impossible to brush away; this same realisation must come to your wife also. We all worry as to how our partners will react when the closet door is throw open either by choice or being found out, but all GG's out there need to realise that the clothing be it feminine or masculine does not a person make. If your wife reads this then she needs to realise that the person you are today is the same person she fell in love with all those years ago, and yes while it maybe hard to understand that you enjoy expressing a side of yourself which may not be seen as being the norm, that doesn't change who you are inside. Whether us men like if or not there is a softer side to us, we express it in many different ways - expression of who you are and what you feel is not a crime so don't beat yourself up. Nature intended for the human race to evolve, to adapt and to experiment - if everyone looked the same, did the same job, lived in the same style house, and drove the same type motor - you get the drift... Because you, I and 99% of the people who come to this place express ourselves differently to how others perceive us does not mean we are criminals. I would say not to give up the fight, everything happens for a reason. If you wife can look past the book cover and remember back to when you first started dating, your first kiss, your wedding day, the joy of the birth of your first child and those subsequent - every time she looks at you is a reminder of all the pluses she's had in her life and if she is willing to sacrifice all of that and the knowledge of the wonderful person you are then she will always be missing the part of her which made her complete for 17 years.
Cross dressing is not an illness in fact if anything it is often a blessing in disguise, so what if you like to wear a dress or put on some makeup, paint your nails, you harm no-one. Cross dressing for many men is a way of relaxing and being comfortable with who you are, and helps to relieve the daily stress and pressure we all face.
It pains me to say it but in this life when some GG’s stick by men who abuse them for years all in the name of love then I'm at a complete loss when it comes to your situation.
I wish you well and hope that both you and your good wife come to terms with this challenge and don't give up.

[christine h]

dear kristi,
We, my ggfriend and I have been reading your problems that you are facing at the moment and she has some advice for you and your wive. You may find this helps as she is a psychtherapist and she will type this now as i'm to slow.

Hello, I have read most of your cries for help in your relationship, and speaking from experience as Christine's partner, I can empathise with your predicament and that of your wife.
It seems that she has known for quite a long time now and I imagine there is another issue underlying all this distancing from you. Maybe as one member suggested, perhaps leave the fact that you cd out of the equation and ask her how she really feels about you as a person and herself.
It feels as though you have lost some of your self esteem and by visiting your psychotherapist weekly will help you to gain some confidence in dealing with the issue of your relationship in a good way.
I imagine your are feeling quite angry with something too and that you need to explore that with your therapist.
I wonder if by her locking you out of the relationship she is using it as an excuse for other issues, maybe from her past that she needs to talk to someone about (not involved with either of you) possibly another therapist.
As you are going to couple counselling together, that sounds positive! but maybe she needs to see her alone as well, and you too.
Hope this helps
Best wishes

[christine h]

Dear Kristi,
Were sorry to hear the latest I should have read on I do apologise. Now that its in the open its seems as your cding must have been a red herring, but was used to make her guilt-free (been there got the teeshirt).
Now you can move on you are worthwile human being and deserve to be here and be happy just remember you are not along. You are going to have to be strong in the coming months for what may happen (I have a rough idea).Please keep up your therapy you will be glad you did.
best wishes christine and gg

[Kristi_Satin2]

Perhaps thos of who who have faced what I do can relate to what I write. This will be my last post. (No I won't do anything silly)

All words are original. There is no copied text. I thank you all for your posts and will check them regularly. But I have nothing left to say. Please read on.



Looking out the window its like I am wearing polarised glasses that filter out part of the brightness. Every aspect of life seems dull and pointless. I look to the west and see the sun setting and it’s not as bright as it could be. The sun seems to mock me as though it wants to finish another day further away from when I was happy. The air tastes different and feels different in my lungs. Each breathe an effort. This constant knot in my stomach, I force each mouthful of food down and struggle to keep it there. My legs don’t always seem to want to go where I want them to and my vision often plays tricks.

I’ve never been a dreamer, one that looks too far in the future although I’ve never seized the day. But I sit and dream of you coming through the door, any door, and opening your arms to smother me with a hold that is water on a fire. To sooth my heart with words that meld the shattered pieces together like moist clay. .

To feel your touch again is to feel the purest of water, to taste your lips to taste the sweetest of all tastes. Your smell so familiar so calming. Oh how I long for just a hint in the air.

To remember every line of your face and retrace them all with the finger of my mind. Every pore of your skin, every hair on your head and to think it once loved me is to truly be in agony. To remember the sound of your breath next to me at night, to feel the warmth of you body next to mine, the knowledge you were there, to reach across and place my hand on you just to reassure myself it was all real.

I find myself reaching out at night in the brief painful moments between sleep and conciousness and find your not there. I don’t wake in fright but wake in horror when I realise you're not there.

If only.

How I have dreamt and wished and hoped and prayed. Why have I lost what was so perfect? The woman to who I pledged my soul, my very being.

Each breath I take is now in vain. I struggle for direction not knowing where I am headed and know that surely each day will be even more difficult and bring even more distance between us, between the memory.

But everyone says I will survive and it will get easier.

I don’t want it too.

I don’t want to forget, I don’t want to fall out of love, I don’t want to ever not love you. I can’t. The pain is an agony, and pain I had never thought possible. Is this what love does? Then it is the foulest of all beasts and yet the sweetest of all victories.

How can there be such highs and yet such lows in life. How can emotions be so strong? To feel, to touch, to smell, to hear, to taste and see are all tangible. Yet this, nothingness I feel has no boundary, no rules to follow, no laws to obey. And it overwhelms all other senses to rule and command my every movement and thought and wish. To direct me to a pointless existence and lead me to conclusions and places so dark my mind cannot comprehend any product of it.

The searing agony of love is one I fear I shall never repeat. Like going along a dark tunnel so far that no light appears in either direction and I don’t know whether to go back or forward. I went in too far, too deep, and now I am lost without direction.

There’s so many clichés written of love, of pain, of loss of hurt. None capture the true depth of loss. The loss of the "edge" of every thing. Each song on the radio torments and haunts me and is seemingly written for me, about me, describing me. So I don’t listen, but there’s so much I can’t do. I can’t watch TV, I can’t read, work, eat or sleep. All things remind me of times of togetherness of happiness, of love. That seems to exist no more, and will never again.

They say "never say never."

I’ll never say "ever".

[KewTnCurvy GG]

Uhhhhhhh, wtf?
hugs
kew

[Clare]

I couldn't have said it better.

So much of what you say is the way i feel also at the moment. I have had the same physical and mental reactions you have experienced, not to mention the roller coaster days of hope and despair.

However, I truly believe you will come through this with a new sense of trust and faith in human nature - just give it time.

I hope it is NOT your last post, we will always be here to offer any support you may need, whatever the issue.

Hugs and kisses to a sister who needs all the special attention she can get. Take care.

Christine

[Krissi]

Kristi,

The raw emotion you've poured out to us really gets to me. I hope you hang around and get back to posting. I bet when the dust settles there is a bright, witty person waiting to get back in touch with the world.

I'll leave you today with a couple of lines from two great Country songs that I grew up with. They remind me of the two ways you can deal with a love gone bad.

"He stopped loving her today. They placed a wreath upon his door. And soon they'll carry him away. He stopped loving her...today." George Jones

"And life's better left to chance, I could have missed the pain, but I'd had missed the, dance." Garth Brooks

Good luck, and God bless

[Tristen Cox]

Kristi so much of what you have spoken touches very deeply. Such a love in your heart and yet so much pain in losing it. Equal in both aspects. I pray that some comfort finds you. That it eases the hell you feel. Words are just not enough for what I would like to say. I do hope that you will at least stay with us and take part in the little friendships we create here. You will never be alone, we can promise you that.

All of my best.

[DonnaT]

Kristi, I hope you gave that to your wife to read. If not, you should.