Why Don't Crossdressers Make Progress?

[Jamie001]

In the past 10 years there has been so much in the new about gay rights and gay pride marches. Gay folks are really making great strides and are much more readily accepted by society. Why isn't the same happening for crossdressers? Crossdressers are never in the news and when they are, it is always in a negative light. :Angry3:

[noname]

Probably several reasons. Foremost I would say the media. They like to cover stories about the guy trying to bras or something, usually the seedy stuff. The media also likes to cover stories about cd in general, usually negative. For example. "Man pulled over wearing a halter top and high heels." A combination of the weirdo to being mocked. When was the last time you heard about a women getting pulled over wearing jeans and tennis shoes?

Then there is the separation in the cd community. The causal wear jeans to sandals guy, certainly doesn't want to be lumped in the guys who are wearing bras and breast forms.

I'd love to see the cd community get more active politically. But even more than that, I don't wish it was a "cd" thing. It should be an everybody thing. Do you hear from womens cd groups they have the right to wear pants? Certainly not.

[trannie T]

There are a lot more lesbians and gays that are out than crossdressers who are out. The majority of us are locked in the dark recesses of our closets.

You can take action:
Contact your local, state and federal legislators and ask them to support transgender rights.
Stand up for transgender rights in your workplace. It is not necessary to out yourself by standing up against discrimination.
If you are out, be a positive role model.

Most Pride events include transgendered people, find out when your local Pride event is and participate.

Remember, if you do not choose to stand up for your rights don't expect anyone else to.

[crusadergirl]

There are a lot more lesbians and gays that are out than crossdressers who are out. The majority of us are locked in the dark recesses of our closets.

You can take action:
Contact your local, state and federal legislators and ask them to support transgender rights.
Stand up for transgender rights in your workplace. It is not necessary to out yourself by standing up against discrimination.
If you are out, be a positive role model.

Most Pride events include transgendered people, find out when your local Pride event is and participate.

Remember, if you do not choose to stand up for your rights don't expect anyone else to.
I agree with what you said if you do nothing then nothing will ever change.

[Jamie M]

i think it's very easy to focus on the current state of affairs and forget how much progress has already been made by our sisters that have gone before us. You only need read the stories of those growing up in the the post war era and later to see that it wasn't uncommon for us to be 'treated' by doctors for our condition with utterly barbaric methods such as electric shock and so forth. Whilst we still have a long way to go before we reach the levels of public acceptance that the gay and lesbian movement has reached we must also understand the pain and effort that they have put in to get to where they are now.

It doesn't help either that , as has already been said , there are so many sub groups within the TG umbrella that we virtually have no unity identity on which to campaign. We fight and bicker within ourselves and present so many different identities that if we have trouble understanding ourselves the average joe member of public has even less chance of doing so.

Society and it's perspective of us is changing and i think this thread (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81410) only shows too well . it may not be where we wish is to be and it never will be unless we are willing to go out there and fight for the advances that gay right movement have rightfully achieved

[Joanne f]

I think that all of the above post`s are about right, the thing is that if you are gay then that is it "you are gay" but if you are a cross dresser then that can mean so many different things and i think that is where the problem lies, the diversity of cross dressing is are own enemy the man in the skirt doe`s not want to be classed the same as the man who go`s 24/7 and vice averse but what they should all realise is that they will all help one another in the long run.


joanne

[Vicky_Scot]

The problem is that how can members of the TG community come out and shout for their rights in the public domain when the majority of them are hiding it from their own partners/spouses and family.

[Amy Hepker]

Mostly the general public puts us in the Gay group. They think that because we dress like females that we want to be with males, which is not the case with most CDers. We are heterosexual and this is the point that many people out there do not know.

I agree we need to be recongnised as being different from Gays and so called normal people. But bad publicity is what we get most of the time.

Like was mentioned earlier, most CDers are still in the closet and haver not come out yet and are afraid to do so. If it were not for this forum many of us would still be unknown. Many of us would think that we were the only ones who felt the way we do. Thank GOD for this forum.

We could use some fresh Ideas about how to show the world we are here and most of us are not GAY! As a matter of fact many of us have normal lives in the so called real world. Doctor, Lawyers, Truck Drivers, Racers, We are everywhere, but not ready to come out yet as we would probably get the wrong reaction.

[yms]

The problem is that how can members of the TG community come out and shout for their rights in the public domain when the majority of them are hiding it from their own partners/spouses and family.

Very true. It is a closeted community.

I am a crossdresser who does the full transformation thing - wig, makeup, breast forms etc - and I go out in public that way, and to be honest, I don't feel I have much in common with a man who only wears women's underwear under his male clothing. Yet we are both labeled crossdressers. I don't see how my needs dove-tail with someone like that.

I don't think crossdressers are ready to be politically active. I think we have to be socially active and that means being visible. Politicians no longer seem willing to stick their necks out for small segments of their constituencies (even Barny Frank couldn't support the TG community).

What I have noticed over the past dozen years or so is that the transgender community seems to wait for other people - Oprah, Phil, whatever - to tell our stories for us, rather than tell our own stories ourselves. Then we sit around and complain about how no one understands.

Oh great, now you've got me started!




Like was mentioned earlier, most CDers are still in the closet and haver not come out yet and are afraid to do so. If it were not for this forum many of us would still be unknown. Many of us would think that we were the only ones who felt the way we do. Thank GOD for this forum.




Amy, I agree with you, but this proves the the original claim of this thread - nothing has changed much. Twelve years ago I thought I was the only one.

[Kate Simmons]

It's mostly an individual thing by nature. Folks will get "involved" only when and if they are ready to.

[tricia_uktv]

Amy, I agree with you, but this proves the the original claim of this thread - nothing has changed much. Twelve years ago I thought I was the only one.

Yvonne, yes but now you know differently. With the help of the Internet more and more of us are coming out and more and more becomming active. Still not enough to tilt the balance but improving day by day. Rome wasn't built in a day and it will be a long, long struggle - but I genuinely think things are improving - particularly the greater tolerence of the young.

[Fab Karen]

We could use some fresh Ideas about how to show the world we are here and most of us are not GAY!

MANY would be a better word. And why is it so important for the world to hear you say you're not gay?
If you want to be seen, step outside your home.

[Dalece]

It seems to me many religius groups also label us a gay and throw readings in our faces.

[KayR]

When Eddie Izzard became famous, I was hopeful that his CDing would be a catalyst to new thinking on behalf of the drab majority.
Sadly, it looks as though he has now become a total straight. He famously used to wear glamourous nail polish whatever he was doing - television shows, standup gigs etc., but even that has gone. Sacrificed on the altar of commercial success. Ah well.....

[CaptLex]

Do you hear from womens cd groups they have the right to wear pants?
There are "women cd groups"? Where? :raisedeyebrow:


MANY would be a better word. And why is it so important for the world to hear you say you're not gay?
If you want to be seen, step outside your home.
You took the words right outta my mouth, Karen. :thumbsup:


When Eddie Izzard became famous, I was hopeful that his CDing would be a catalyst to new thinking on behalf of the drab majority.
Sadly, it looks as though he has now become a total straight. He famously used to wear glamourous nail polish whatever he was doing - television shows, standup gigs etc., but even that has gone. Sacrificed on the altar of commercial success. Ah well.....
But doesn't Eddie have the right to NOT dress if he so desires? He's not the poster child for the CD community. Anyone who wants equality should get out there and speak up and not depend on others to do it for them. People who live in glass houses and all that. :p

[frenchie]

I think that the media views cross dressers as some kind of weird part of our varied society and yet people who are openly gay can operate as normal and have the protection from the very same media.It does'nt seem fair and though i have no axe to grind with gay people, I found when my wife and i realised that i liked to dress en femme,at first I had to explain that it wasn't a gay thing,and that was her initial fear that she was losing her husband.Thankfully she was very understanding.
Why is it so bad that a guy who wants to wear a dress is looked upon as someone strange,while a woman can wear a mans suit and still look very sexy and be accepted?
Well I could go on and on ,but I expect you all feel a similar way,
Thanks Gina( Still trying todecide between Gina and Gena)

[RikkiOfLA]

If we look at the gay community as a model for how our community might evolve, two events really focused them.

1. Stonewall, when the police tried to bust yet another gay club, to enforce the old "sodomy" statutes. The gays fought back, at first physically, then in the streets, in the press, and in the courts. It really unified the gay community, and henceforth they would unite under the single banner word "gay" rather than the subcommunities of "leather", "drag", and so on. Within a few months, for example, there was an unofficial "gay dress code" which almost all gays were wearing--polo shirt, short hair, chinos or jeans, regardless of subcommunity. This was part of a move to make daily appearance more mainstream. Sodomy laws were challenged and overturned, employment discrimination was replaced with employment rights guarantees, and so on.

2. The AIDS epidemic. The Religious Right tried to capitalize it as "The Gay Disease." Instead the gay community united once again to spearhead funding for research to find the cure. Millions of dollars were raised, and medical advances happened. The gay community turned the popular perception of them from "the spreaders of disease" to "the people who saved us from an epidemic" and won huge popular support in the process.

I'm not trying to ask for the negative, but only to comment that we need to be willing to unite as a community and to turn negative events into positive ones and publicize that.

Blessings,
Rikki

[Maria2004]

There are "women cd groups"? Where? :raisedeyebrow:

I was very surprised and delighted to find out there are, here is a quote from an article in the Winter 2007 edition of the "The Mirror" by Jayme Fay a MtF CD.

"I was recently a contestant in the 2007 Ms. Transgender Beauty Pageant of Houston. Sorry I didn't win but I had a lot of fun. This was really a Unity type event. All of the different groups in the Houston area were involved. Our escorts for the ball gown event were from S.T.A.G.(Some Transgenders Are Guys). It was interesting meeting female crossdressers as guys. They were great."

There was also a pic in the article showing Jayme and her FtM escort together. Pretty awesome IMO.:)

[battybattybats]

Crossdressers, Drag Queens etc were at the heart of the Stonewall Riots. One of the laws used to arrest people was about wearing clothes of the opposite gender! The first punch is attributed by some to have been thrown by a transexual.

And before that there was the Compton Cafeteria riot!

Somewhere though the transgender component got largely forgotten.

Often movements need 1 or more of the following:

A) A charismatic and inspiring leader.
B) A general mood of rebellion and change that inspires people broadly,a grassroots groundswell or popularity of activism as 'cool' or worthwhile.
C) A feeling of being cheated or of great injustice, often this comes surprisingly not when things are at their worst but when they are getting better but then fail to reach the foreseen levels or take a retrograde step

Though I think it was the rise of positive portrayels of gays in the entertainment media rather than just as tragic figures that gained gay people more acceptance.

[CaptLex]

"Our escorts for the ball gown event were from S.T.A.G.(Some Transgenders Are Guys). It was interesting meeting female crossdressers as guys. They were great."
Transguys, yes, but do they actually identify as crossdressers or as transmen? It's been my experience that very few transguys consider themselves crossdressers (not that there's anything wrong with that). :winkp:

[Maria2004]

Transguys, yes, but do they actually identify as crossdressers or as transmen? :winkp:

I don't know, I took it as they identified as crossdressers, but that's an interesting question. I'll look into it some more, I'd like to know the same thing.:Peace:

Update: Ah well, your right, they're not crossdressers after all. It was nice for a little while anyway to think there were brothers who were actually sisters who had formed a group, I'll just have to keep looking.:cool:

[Carly D.]

I do think we are looked upon as being weird.. that everyone thinks we should be shamed, and made to feel ashamed.. I usually run for the bathroom or the bedroom when the doorbell rings unexpectedly.. and that has to do with how I feel dressed in whatever mode I am in.. as far as how I would like to feel when dressed, I'd like to feel like I'm not a pervert.. that I am the same person weather dressed up or in regular male mode clothing...

[DemonicDaughter]

Not so long ago, gay/lesbians/bis were all in the closet just as much and many still are. Its a frightening experience to know you'll be hated for who you are (as you all are very well aware). But it was the act of coming out of that proverbial closet that really started to make the changes needed in society.

The fear of what GLB meant really started to fade more and more as "normal" people announced their sexuality.

Same would hold true for crossdressers.

It is the showing that you aren't a walking threat/virus/pervert or anything else negative (well... no more than the average person, lol) that will make the greatest impact on society over time. Its educating the masses that will ever make any of this acceptable behavior in any society.

[Joanne f]

There are "women cd groups"? Where? :raisedeyebrow:


You took the words right outta my mouth, Karen. :thumbsup:


Anyone who wants equality should get out there and speak up and not depend on others to do it for them. People who live in glass houses and all that. :p

I have tried that in a bigger way than you know but it back fired on me and i paid a very heavy price for it so that doe`s not always work for the individual


joanne

[JoAnnDallas]

We have come a long ways if you look over the last 50 years.

1950's

Cding was illegal in many states.
No discrimination protection anywhere
Getting beat up for being a CD was common and NOT against the law.
Most CDer were deep in the closet.
Never talked about on TV or media.
No SRS/FFS

TODAY

CDing is now legal in all states
Many states and cities have anti-discrimination laws that protect us.
Getting beat up for being a CD is NOW against the law.
With the invention of the Internet, more CDers are coming out of the closet.
Hardly a week does not go by that there is some form of media or TV exposure to CD/TSing.
SRS/FFS common today.

If I had gone out in public fully dress back then, I am sure someone would have pointed me out. Today even if someone does notice, they usually keep to themselves and/or done care.

So we have gain a lot over the last 50 years.

[Vicky_Scot]

The thing is being gay or lesbian or bisexual is about sexuality.

Being TG is about gender.

Sexuality and gender are two different issues, but that's a post for another day.

If the TG community really want to try and make a point it should be that we are not part of the gay community. We are tagged onto the end of the gay scene because "society" does not know where else to put us and because"society" assumes that we are gay.

[CaptLex]

I have tried that in a bigger way than you know but it back fired on me and i paid a very heavy price for it so that doe`s not always work for the individual

joanne
Nothing worth having is ever easy - in fact, it often comes with a heavy price. History is full of stories of hard-won freedoms: women's right to vote, the Stonewall riots, the civil rights movement, etc.

Joanne, I'm not saying you personally should sacrifice your life, family, security, etc. I was speaking in general of those who want equal rights but want them at the expense of someone else's activities.

[Ibuki_Warpetal]

This is silly. The same people who accept gays accept us as well. The same people who cannot accept us also cannot accept gays.

Maybe my world is different from yours?

[Kimberley]

I really dont know why the Gay/Lesbian thing has to enter into this. The only real connection we have with them is that they preceeded us in gaining their rights and "acceptance" such as it is depending on where you are.

Now, there is a huge difference between a gay man wearing a Brooks Bros. suit sitting in a boardroom than there is a guy wearing heels and a Donna Karan suit at the same table. The same holds true in any aspect of public life. There is a credibility question that is raised. Someone who is gay does not wear a tee shirt proclaiming it so the perception of others is quite normal unless s/he is out and there are prejudices at play.

THAT is what has to be overcome; prejudices founded in ignorance, the same as the gays had to overcome it. Only when the public at large could see they were no threat did things ease up for them.

Still there are a lot of "right of center" elements that are in this ignorance group and no amount of advertising is going to change the fire and brimstone of Sunday mornings.

Sacrifices have to be made for sure and there are people who have made them; the trouble is no one in the law making community is listening. That is where the first steps have to be made and so far they are unsteady at best.

:hugs:
Kimberley

[Steveo]

hello, two things really, is it not the case that gay's are generaly seen to have a medical problem, there for not their fault, so a modicum of acceptance. but a man in womens clothing is his choice there for a pervert. apolagees. one more thing as to acceptance im reading some books from the victorian eara, letters sent to papers, that suggest a wide spread theatrical life style for crossdressers but that was over a centery ago so no i don't beleave we have moved on at the rate that should now have our comunity at least accepted,

[Sophia KT]

This thread is hardly started and there are already the signs of fragmentation over sexuality, etc.


The problem is that where we are accepted in law we are not in general life [so in word only]; we are left to get on with it, each fighting the same battle and the same pain over and over [individually].

Until there is an MP [or congress person, is it?] who is a tv then we will have no real influence. It's fine for someone to say 'I support the.....yada yada...blah' but unless they are one of us they don't know anything.



This site is a godsend though:sb:.

Sophia

[Melanie R]

Jayme Fay is like our adopted daughter. A beautiful person who we believe will win the 2008 Ms. Transgender Beauty Pageant of Houston. This past Saturday night she attended her first Houston Transgender Unity Banquet. She was on cloud nine. This years 16th annual Houston Transgender Unity Banquet broke all the records in attendance as the largest single city TG event in the US with over 100 large and small companies such as Shell Oil and Chase providing financial support for the banquet and sending representatives from their companies. Through their financial support we were able to raise over $12,000 for the Peggy Rudd TG Scholarship Fund (named in honor of my wife' ), for our Pride Parade participation and other annual activities. The Comptroller and future mayor of Houston presented a proclamation from the City of Houston proclaiming April 26 as Houston Transgender Unity Day. There were four Houston councilmen in attendance and one judge. Jenny Boylan (author of She's Not There) was our fabulous key note speaker. Jenny and our other visitors from the major TG activists groups in the country were in awe by what we have accomplish over the last 16 years in Houston. Yes, it can be done but it takes dedication, working together and a lot of time. We challenge other cities in the US to follow our lead.

Hugs,

Melanie


I was very surprised and delighted to find out there are, here is a quote from an article in the Winter 2007 edition of the "The Mirror" by Jayme Fay a MtF CD.

"I was recently a contestant in the 2007 Ms. Transgender Beauty Pageant of Houston. Sorry I didn't win but I had a lot of fun. This was really a Unity type event. All of the different groups in the Houston area were involved. Our escorts for the ball gown event were from S.T.A.G.(Some Transgenders Are Guys). It was interesting meeting female crossdressers as guys. They were great."

There was also a pic in the article showing Jayme and her FtM escort together. Pretty awesome IMO.:)

[TSchapes]

I've joined our GLBT support group at work. I've joined as a "Straight Allies" for now. We are a small group, out of a large corporation, there were maybe 15 of us at the last meeting. There are many more that belong to this group. I know of one TS in the group and she had SRS 30 years ago. She and I have had many discussions because just the two of us have different agendas.

Still after all these years she says HR still thinks Sexual Orientation & Gender Identity are lifestyles. Like, I like to go to my yacht on the weekends kind of lifestyle, as if it's a choice! Sexual Orientation & Gender Identity are woven together whether we like it or not. She's been fighting for health rights that still aren't covered after all these years. We don't have gender protection language in our HR manual like we do gay protection. And yet, there are still gays at work that fear coming out. We actually hold the meetings off site for this reason.

Now her question to me was, what do you want (in so many words)? Because with us, since we are changelings, people don't know how we want to be treated.

Her example: So Tracy, you show up at work on Mondays and Tuesdays and Wednesdays & Thursdays you are drab, and since it's Casual Friday, you come in something androgynous. How should people threat you? Are you going to change names? Do you wish to be treated as a women when you are dressed as such? Which bathroom will you use? What if people snicker now and we have this gender protection language, are you going to sue these insensitive people?

Now I know I said I wish to be treated with respect, but do you see what others may see? And in this outlandish case, does the company now have to have third sex bathrooms? Because now it's a matter of accommodation. This is what they are afraid of. What do we have to do now to accommodate this group of people, will it never end?

And to be honest, I told her all I want at this time, is if the information of my CDing became common knowledge through no direct action of myself. That I would be protected from being fired. Plan and simple. I have no desire to dress as Tracy at work (OK maybe Halloween, but like that's different!) and I don't want to put in everyones face either. I think it would be nice sometimes if everybody knew and therefore understood me a little better and not hate me for it.

So do you see? I don't know what I want. Many girls here couldn't make a list of requirements and agree on them. So certainly trying to put anything in legal type language would be a nightmare.

One, last note, the media does treat us badly. But do we write or call them and tell them it is not appropriate? If we don't start standing up on this point, it's going to be harder to establish all the others.

-Tracy

[Fiona K]

We can be our own worst enemies sometimes- well, not quite as the red-neck with a 12 gauge is probably our worst enemy- but you know what I mean.

We do tend to get hung up on lables, whether we should be added to the LGB acronym or not and sometimes real homophobia expressed from within our ranks.

The LGBT community is generally a safe place for us, they understand persecution, we share some of the bumps in the road but in terms of acceptance we're 50 years behind.

This could be because Trans = Pervert in so many minds. We live in a world where even in Western "Liberal" Democracies the "Trans Panic" defence is still trotted out when a straight guy kills a trans-woman. Not if, when.

Also the confusion about what Trans means (which includes the whole sexuality thing) can be played out in our own heads and is just as confusing to LGB folks as so-called straights.

I've spent quite a few evenings attempting to explain to Lesbian and Gay folks that I don't fancy blokes, at all, in no way ever....... honest. And no I don't protest too much.

How do I explain that I feel feminine 100% of the time but not 100% feminine? Or that I have no intention of transitioning, not just because I'm too much of a coward.

The understanding of GRS is so dreadful too- the very thought threatens our patriarchal society, horrifies many feminists as they think guys are muscling in on their patch and sends the religious fundamentalists in to a blind rage.

What we need is to get beyond the questions to the point where it is only the nuts working to de-homo sheep that actually care what causes homosexuality or Trans-ness. Acceptance that it's real, not a threat and not going to go away.

That there's no cure because we ain't sick.

All this means we have a mountain to climb, but I've got my boots (with nice heels) on and am at the foot hills just now, maybe I'll see us get to base camp before I die? I hope so, for all our sakes.

[jaina]

The problem is that how can members of the TG community come out and shout for their rights in the public domain when the majority of them are hiding it from their own partners/spouses and family.

This is the reason.
People need to get out and stop hiding, only then will things change.

[gennee]

There are a lot more lesbians and gays that are out than crossdressers who are out. The majority of us are locked in the dark recesses of our closets.

You can take action:
Contact your local, state and federal legislators and ask them to support transgender rights.
Stand up for transgender rights in your workplace. It is not necessary to out yourself by standing up against discrimination.
If you are out, be a positive role model.

Most Pride events include transgendered people, find out when your local Pride event is and participate.

Remember, if you do not choose to stand up for your rights don't expect anyone else to.

I agree with you, Trannie. Not enough of us are out there. I've been out in public many times and didn't out myself. I'm not afraid of being out in public. I marched in the vets parade twice and I was dressed. I try to be positive model because there may be someone who may be struggling or trying understand what we are about.

Gennee

:)

[KimberlyS]

Jamie, IMHO you said the big reason.


.... pride marches

They gays showed their numbers and many many many came out. When we start seeing TG/CD rallies and marches and a lot more CD's and TG's come out in the public eye we will see some action and change happen. But many of us have families and if they are like myself they are afraid of the affects of coming out on our family. Look how long it is taking Susan (steve) to get a job after being fired from Largo. Along with loosing a family setting to live in.

[Sophia KT]

Referring to Melanie R, TSchapes, and Fiona K

It is so good that someone, somewhere is having a 'tg day' and that it is supported by people in power.

Law/health and safety are hardly going to help us: legal langage is only 1/2 what is sensibly expressable and needs the boot for wasting time [IMO].

We have a mountain to climb alright, but tvs are as inevitable as global warming [which the've only just, barely accepted].


Sophia

[Nicki B]

I think the idea of a 'critical mass' is useful.. Until GLB folk discovered just how many of them there were, they stayed closeted and fought amongst themselves?

The only way we can make this change is by being willing to stand out and let others know we are here - on the internet and in real life..


Slowly, we are getting there. Attitudes have changed, IME. But, if you just hide in your closet, what right have you to complain that someone else isn't changing things for you? :strugglin

[SweetCaroline]

We have come a long ways if you look over the last 50 years.

1950's

Cding was illegal in many states.
No discrimination protection anywhere
Getting beat up for being a CD was common and NOT against the law.
Most CDer were deep in the closet.
Never talked about on TV or media.
No SRS/FFS

TODAY

CDing is now legal in all states
Many states and cities have anti-discrimination laws that protect us.
Getting beat up for being a CD is NOW against the law.
With the invention of the Internet, more CDers are coming out of the closet.
Hardly a week does not go by that there is some form of media or TV exposure to CD/TSing.
SRS/FFS common today.

If I had gone out in public fully dress back then, I am sure someone would have pointed me out. Today even if someone does notice, they usually keep to themselves and/or done care.

So we have gain a lot over the last 50 years.

Word Sister! :hugs:

We have a longways come, but still have a long ways to go.

Unfortunataly, it may also have a lot to do with region. Boston or San Francisco are very different from the Mid-west, or the South. And that's just the united states.

I think if we are going to be accepted, as gays and lesbians are now becoming, than we need to do nothing more than to be out there, and in the open, no matter where we live.

Shine on you crazy diamonds.:love:

[harmony]

i live in a small town of 8000 or so.
i am well known here-buisness owner(restaurant) chamber of commerce etc.
a few yea rs ago i decided to come out to the public.i went to restaurants artgaleries bars clubs public and private parties.
always tastefully dressed i got to talk to many people about cding and gaining understanding and respect.

[Genifer Teal]

Closeted CDs are not jumping out to say here I am - take it or leave it. For the most part, they are stay ing in the closet. Progress is being made with the younger gereation. In some ways it is just like another way to be. It is not seen as a big deal. Not that everyone likes it and accepts it, just that it exists, so what. Older generations are so set in there ways it would be difficult to convert enough of them to a new level of acceptance. It is best to leave things as they are. I believe natural progression take its course. In due time we will still be seen as different but maybe not so wierd as some think now.

Gen

[Ibuki_Warpetal]

i live in a small town of 8000 or so.
i am well known here-buisness owner(restaurant) chamber of commerce etc.
a few yea rs ago i decided to come out to the public.i went to restaurants artgaleries bars clubs public and private parties.
always tastefully dressed i got to talk to many people about cding and gaining understanding and respect.
That's pretty easy to believe. I haven't really experienced any prejudice, even from internet trolls.
The worst people seem to be the women who feel their lifestyle is threatened. Most guys don't care. They giggle amongst themselves, but hell they do that for just about anything. It's normal behavior. I feel as if most transgenders see themselves as something special and think the world somehow treats them different. I don't see evidence of that. No amount of marching is going to make people like you if they aren't already open-minded. :straightface:

At this point, what progress is to be made exactly? You want crossdressing astronauts? Transsexual president?

[barfra]

Hello my youngest son is 21 years old and he told me at the new year that he is GAY, he came out to me i was the last one to no in the family i love my son and i always will to the day that die this is not about him, this is about cumming out all the crossdressers that are in the closet should come out no one is going to kill you are they, they are not going hack of your arms ore legs, OK you may loose some friends but they are not you real friends are they your real friend would not walk away from you, i am going to come out to my family because i don't see what is so wrong with wearing women's clothing, i think all crossdressers in all parts of the world should get together we should make a stand and tell the rest of the world that wee are here and wee are here to stay, you can accept us and if you don't we don't care. I would love to see a crossdresser parade once a year in every city in the world just like there are Gay parade in other parts of the world, to all you lades out there what do you think + i would love to see all crossdressers with there partners out in a crossdressing parade . Frances

[crusadergirl]

I thought this was about cross dressers making progress not gays. You all keep saying its a gender not a sexual thing but your not getting to the point.
For the most part ppl do accept us. The media no one cares about what they say its mostly entertainment. Don't worry about labels and live your lives.

[Ibuki_Warpetal]

It's not really about just crossdressers or gays, that's kinda self-centered. It's about breaking taboo and challenging the status quo.

This is what we do.
This is what gays do.
This is what a lot of other semi-related people-types do.

This is what people have a problem with.

This is what needs to change.

[Melinda G]

Actually we have made progress. It's no longer against the law. I've been stopped a couple times while dressed, and nothing was said, and I wasn't asked to step out of the car. I can remember a time when it was illegal.

Part of the problem is in our own minds. Gays strut around in public, and don't seem to care who knows they are gay, while many of us, are afraid to step foot out of the house. This board is filled with posts from people who are afraid to step out of the house, for fear of being seen. To be fair, most gays don't have wives to worry about, and their familys probably know about them. But only when we quit worrying about what others think, and just go out, dressed as we want to, will we make any true progress. And for most of us, there will always be that fear of being perceived as gay.

[Satrana]

We will never make progress until we sort out ourselves first, until we clear away all the myths and misconceptions which we carry inside our heads. It is our lack of belief in ourselves that holds back progress. Nobody will take us seriously if we lack the self-confidence to stand our ground and demand our rights.

So when the time comes when a new generation of CDs grow up without shame and guilt, without confusion about their gender and sexuality, and without believing that they are in any way different from anyone else then, and only then, will CDs break out of our self-imposed exile.

[Fiona K]

It's not really about just crossdressers or gays, that's kinda self-centered. It's about breaking taboo and challenging the status quo.

This is what we do.
This is what gays do.
This is what a lot of other semi-related people-types do.

This is what people have a problem with.

This is what needs to change.

Absolutely, gender/ sexuality are irrelevant, we have shared experiences and many of the same attitudes are the ones we need to change.

[cemab4y]

I don't know. Maybe people are just fed up with "victims". Everybody wants to be thought of as a victim. Personally, I have nothing against gays/lesbians, they should be congratulated for the progress that has been made, and is being made.

[Joy Carter]

There was a thread recently, about what price have you paid for being a CD. I for one can tell you, that it only took a rumour from one, for me to be harassed by many till I retired. The price is heavy for many if us. Loss of family, friends and job. The one's who have found acceptance are rare in my observation.

And one more thing. Wasn't there some political action going on here in the states, involving GBLT groups, and were we not kicked to the curb, because we would have made it tougher for GBL's to get there initiative through ?

[Jamie S.]

I don't know if it's been mentioned, but I think some of it ironically has to do with what some of us consider to be pro-gay/transgender media. Movies like Hedwig and the Angry Inch and Precilla Queen of the Desert, and many others, while they can be good, paint the community as being weirdos or at the very lease mentally unbalanced. Some of us would just like to live what we consider to be our normal lives without the flamboyant stuff. It's understandable that someone seeing Agent Smith from the Matrix in full drag would think "wow, is this what being transgendered is?" and not accept the idea as willingly as seeing what most of us look like. Just normal people.

Personally, growing up in the 90's, the transgendered media I saw made me ashamed of the way I felt about myself. For a long time I tried to supress who I am. So while some may say "well at least the films address our cause", I ask myself at what price this exposure comes at.

We have made strides and will continue to do so, but as long as some films and shows keep painting us as over the top, flamboyant weirdos, we're going to still be looked upon as just that.

Anywho, it's 7 am and I'm running on empty from working on college finals stuff all night, so apologies for the rambling.

-jamie

[wishonastar]

and wish to stay that way.

The drag queens get the attention and that is not the image most CD'ers want.

Most CD'ers are heterosexual and many if not most are married, their wives do not know and if they did it would end the marriage, job and family!

So it is much more complicated than just CD'ing.

[jaina]

And one more thing. Wasn't there some political action going on here in the states, involving GBLT groups, and were we not kicked to the curb, because we would have made it tougher for GBL's to get there initiative through ?


Yes.

It really was a "win something" or "win nothing" scenerio.
The gay community has exended a hand to transgender and crossdressers over and over again, often only encountering hate and homophobia. The perfect cant be allowed to be the enemy of the good.

Remember this when you go to a gay club for the safe atmosphere on friday, but support anti-gay stances on sunday morning and vote against gay issues on tuesday. Transgendered and Crossdressers really need to start jumping in and fighting the fight. They can't sit it out and expect the gay community to get bloody and always hand them their rights on a platter.

If you assume that this forum is a valid cross section of TG/CDs, Most won't even stand up for equal rights in their own personal relationships nevermind the workplace or government agencies. So why should the gay community risk losing even one fight simply to carry such dead weight with them? If you want TG/Cd equal rights stop hiding and get them, don't blame the gay community for leaving you behind.

I present as a female in the real world every day and fight for my rights. Who can say the same thing?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[KeriB]

Unfortunately, when you have HRC throwing TG's under the bus to get a much watered-down national ENDA passed, along with Rep. Barney Frank and Sen. Ted Kennedy jumping ship, well it makes it all that much harder. Although these issues relate more to TG/TS folk, the TG language does relate to crossdressers and protections.

Sadly, most people will be much more sympathetic and understanding if you were gay versus being transgendered - simply the facts of where we are in the fight at this time.

[Seville]

...while a woman can wear a mans suit and still look very sexy and be accepted?

All the Olive Garden restaurants that I'm familiar with
have waitresses wearing mens white shirts, dark long ties
and pants...and nobody bats an eye...and yes, they still look
sexy and feminine. Oh Well...

[LoriTG]

Another thing is that when you are gay you usually don't change what you wear. You don't stick out like some transgendered people.

[Seville]

...no one is going to kill you are they, they are not going hack of your arms ore legs...
As soon as I read this, I thought about Matthew murdered on the
barb wire fence in Wyoming. Call me a coward, but I like living.

[CaptLex]

All the Olive Garden restaurants that I'm familiar with
have waitresses wearing mens white shirts, dark long ties
and pants...and nobody bats an eye...and yes, they still look
sexy and feminine. Oh Well...
That's why nobody bats an eye - 'cause they still look female and are still attractive to all those who are attracted to women. But if they didn't look "sexy and feminine", you can be sure they'd be harassed too.

[Ibuki_Warpetal]

But if they didn't look "sexy and feminine", you can be sure they'd be harassed too.

I disagree. A cute face is a cute face. A woman could wear a stack of bricks, and if she has as cute face nobody will care, though they might question her fashion sense.
What you are comparing is as if a man had to wear female attire to work, yet somehow managed to look handsome and masculine. People would stare for a bit but go about their business because they assume the man is probably psycholigically sound.

Whether a person is harrassed or not really depends on their demeanor and how they present themself and whether a second party feels threatened or mystified the person.

[shirley1]

because you are all in the closet - stuck in there wondering what the world will think of you - worrying about wives/girlfriends why did you get married if you thought you were tv ? i never did i just knew i would end up nicking my girlfriends stuff ! it amazes me just how many tvs think the answer is fight it then turn around and ask a stupid question like this ! why because you are too ruled by masculinity to ever be recognised as anything else ! gay people are proud of who they are !! most trannies are not youll never win - i will caus i have accepted myself finally - takes time to get there though !

[Nicki B]

Closeted CDs are not jumping out to say here I am - take it or leave it. For the most part, they are stay ing in the closet.

Isn't that primarily because of fear, whether or not that is reasonable? :idontknow:


I disagree. A cute face is a cute face. A woman could wear a stack of bricks, and if she has as cute face nobody will care, though they might question her fashion sense.
What you are comparing is as if a man had to wear female attire to work, yet somehow managed to look handsome and masculine. People would stare for a bit but go about their business because they assume the man is probably psycholigically sound.

Surely the difference is, these women are not trying to be men? :strugglin

[Ibuki_Warpetal]

Surely the difference is, these women are not trying to be men? :strugglin

That's exactly my point. People don't think that they are "trying to be something they are not", just because they are wearing a suit-like uniform.

People have a problem with people "being things they aren't supposed to be". Best example I can think of is "wiggers", blanket term for white kids who "act black". Pretty much everyone who doesn't appreciate urban culture associates being a "wigger" as neolithic. They actually get more hate than we do.

[Satrana]

I agree Ibuki

CDs wont progress so long as they are fixated on passing which at the end of the day is simply trying to deceive people that you are an actual GG. People don't like being deceived, they automatically assume the worst about the other person. It is a fun experience for us, but not for them. People feel scared and angry when they are uncertain of another person's intentions.

Passing may score maximum points on escapism, feeling the ultimate feminine feelings, and perfecting a project etc, but we lose sight on how a lay-person is going to interpret our behavior. Even if they are liberal and open-minded, they will still perceive us to be weird and different because this is not normal human behavior to deceive to this degree.

[CaptLex]

I disagree. A cute face is a cute face. A woman could wear a stack of bricks, and if she has as cute face nobody will care, though they might question her fashion sense.
I was talking about females or female-bodied people who don't dress cute and sexy (cute face notwithstanding), and are harassed either mildly by friends, family and peers, or more violently by people who feel threatened (as you mentioned) because they want them to dress or present more feminine.

There are plenty of cute-as-a-button transguys and butch lesbians who go through incessant teasing and harassment because they won't just give in and please their parents, for example, because they won't wear a skirt or grow out their hair or wear makeup.


Whether a person is harrassed or not really depends on their demeanor and how they present themself and whether a second party feels threatened or mystified the person.
The demeanor doesn't guarantee anything, but I agree that it will happen if someone feels threatened (and/or revulsed).

[JoAnnDallas]

Joy Carter.........sound like you have a perfect case of "Sexual discrimination" that you could have brought against you company. Here in Dallas, TX the city passed anti-discrimination law that protect T-Girls in the work place and in public. If it were to happen to me, I would walk into the HR department and flat them them that I was going to file suit about it. I would see a scramble to prevent me from filing the suit. Most companies will bend over backwards not to be suied for "Sexual Harrasment" even if the company, ciry, or state does not cover T-Girls. Harrasment is illegal regaurdless of the content.

[kristine239]

I have read all of the posts in this thread and I think some of you may not be aware of whats going on.

The main reason is in my IMHO, you are not out in the greater community. Most of you need to attend an active group in your area, but especially attend many of the conferences such as Southern Comfort, Be All, IFGE and more. You will find that many organizations are active in the human rights movement. The progress that you have seen has been the result of a few and needs to be continued by the "many." When was the last time you talked to a legislater concerning your rights and beliefs? Probably never! When was the last time you attended a conference to find out how you can make a difference? Many voices DO create change and you all need to be heard.

So much for my "soap box" for today. The word is change is created by the many, not just a few. :2c:

[JoAnnDallas]

kristine239.....Your so right. Reading about the Dallas Law, I found it took almost all the TG groups together here in Dallas to get the Mayor to agree to add protection for the TG. In fact it took almost to the dealine to get the law changed to add the protection for TG people.
My Tri-Ess chapter does out-reach. I hope to be able to help in this. They have held sminars for local police and Fire Departments, Colleges, and even High Schools. They even attended the Pride March and had a booth at the Pride Fest last year.

[Jamie001]

The problem is that most CDs cower in the closet. If you don't acknowledge and accept yourself, then how can you expect other folks to acknowledge and accept you. If you remain closeted, this will never change and progress will never be made.



I have read all of the posts in this thread and I think some of you may not be aware of whats going on.

The main reason is in my IMHO, you are not out in the greater community. Most of you need to attend an active group in your area, but especially attend many of the conferences such as Southern Comfort, Be All, IFGE and more. You will find that many organizations are active in the human rights movement. The progress that you have seen has been the result of a few and needs to be continued by the "many." When was the last time you talked to a legislater concerning your rights and beliefs? Probably never! When was the last time you attended a conference to find out how you can make a difference? Many voices DO create change and you all need to be heard.

So much for my "soap box" for today. The word is change is created by the many, not just a few. :2c:

[Sallee]

that is your feeling that you and only you have to overcome it. It is our own embarrassment to deal with. That is not to say that alot of us don't have it and we have to over come it too. But mostly it is an individual thing

For the most part I think we have made some progress at least for the going out and about CD and TS people do get noticed but generally folks don't care. Now that maybe a little different in an office setting where some one may be transitioning Being a TS is a hard to hide and it may result in discrimination. People do have a hard time with it on a personal level. It is kind of like a very flaming gay man. If you are in peoples faces they will be offended.

[MsJoann]

It's true that the general public is tolerant of gay people. They are accepted in our society due to the great strides whch were made regarding gay rights and also their presence in the media and politics.
I don't think there is anyone these days who don't know what the rainbow colors represent.
However, I still cringe when I see how the media represents us. We are presented to be a two-legged freak show..and why is it that the cameras always seem to capture a less desirable looking crossdresser? (usually cop shows).
The mentality of most is still stuck in an old mindset... "John by day, Janet by night". How many times have you seen that one on television?
It may not be ignorance but I think it is a lack of understanding and a need for education.
There are still many, many people who despise gays and transgender people. I think understanding will be prevalent with time, maybe not within our lives.
I am delighted though when I do see us in the media in a positive light. I set my own personal strides each day by wearing what I want to wear...even a little makeup! It's my life!

[shirley1]

maybe where you live plays a part i dont know - i live in england and all i can go on is the fact i didnt get any probs being out en femme the other day cant wait for the next time - maybe i am one of the lucky ones - i dont think i could be read - so if you look the part you know you are not doing anything to help the cause of transgendered people - still i dont care i just want to do what i want to do - my aim has always been to see if i can pass as a genetic female - and i'll find out a lot more form now on as i start to go out more - but seroiusly the only way cders will make steps forward to becoming accepted in everyday life is to just go out there and do it !! women will love it a guy thats in touch with his feminine side, have more in common with ggs it stands to reason to me - gay people were in the closet once but i guess the difference is they knew what they wanted - same as women did with equal rights as men - do cders know what they want ? thats whats bothering me !!

[Melinda G]

Hmmm. After reading all the posts, I'm left wondering what exactly are we seeking? You want to dress up and go out. Do it. Nothing is going to happen to you, if you use a little common sense. If you go out late at night in a bad area, you might get beat up and robbed. But you would probably get beat up and robbed dressed as a guy, in the same area, late at night.
If somebody "makes you", so what. Assault is still a crime, no matter what you are wearing. If somebody makes you, you might hear a few snickers or remarks, but not likely. But even gays put up with that. It's not a perfect world, and never will be.
In most cases, if you look reasonably passable, and conduct yourself appropriately, you will have no problems. If you can't stand an occasional stare, I guess you better stay home. No laws are ever going to eliminate that.

[michelle64]

Hmmm. After reading all the posts, I'm left wondering what exactly are we seeking? You want to dress up and go out. Do it. Nothing is going to happen to you, if you use a little common sense. If you go out late at night in a bad area, you might get beat up and robbed. But you would probably get beat up and robbed dressed as a guy, in the same area, late at night.
If somebody "makes you", so what. Assault is still a crime, no matter what you are wearing. If somebody makes you, you might hear a few snickers or remarks, but not likely. But even gays put up with that. It's not a perfect world, and never will be.
In most cases, if you look reasonably passable, and conduct yourself appropriately, you will have no problems. If you can't stand an occasional stare, I guess you better stay home. No laws are ever going to eliminate that.

i agree...learn how to dress and act and you will not have a problem...going into gay bars in the seedy parts of the city will catch up with you..its not that your dressed..its the fact your in a bad part of town and just left a gay bar....i will withhold any replies to any same sex activities..even though i have dressed for years my views on that lifestyle are not favorable.

[vivianann]

We need to just get dressed and get out in public, however we need to dress in a presentable manner, age and size appropriate, since I have started dressing in public I have had positive experiences, and peaple seem to be curious, and have questions of why we dress in womens clothing. Yes there are some jerks out there, who cares, I have run into a couple of jerks, and I am not afraid to kick their ass if needs be. I know it is difficult for most of us to announce we like to wear dresses, but we need to get public exposure, and assert our rights to wear womens clohing, and try not looking like freaks.
We need to assert our rights to wear womens clothing, we have rights to wear what we want as long as we show descency, we dont need any special protection, we just need to come out of the closet.

[Joy Carter]

Joy Carter.........sound like you have a perfect case of "Sexual discrimination" that you could have brought against you company. Here in Dallas, TX the city passed anti-discrimination law that protect T-Girls in the work place and in public. If it were to happen to me, I would walk into the HR department and flat them them that I was going to file suit about it. I would see a scramble to prevent me from filing the suit. Most companies will bend over back wards not to be sued for "Sexual Harassment" even if the company, ciry, or state does not cover T-Girls. Harassment is illegal regardless of the content.


Not in Ohio. In fact after three years of being harassed at all levels, including by the department head. I went to HR and the head boss. Things got worse from there, even though I was promised something would be done. I was told that the whole thing was my fault in the first place. Maybe I ought to write a book.

[battybattybats]

Hmmm. After reading all the posts, I'm left wondering what exactly are we seeking? You want to dress up and go out. Do it. Nothing is going to happen to you, if you use a little common sense. If you go out late at night in a bad area, you might get beat up and robbed. But you would probably get beat up and robbed dressed as a guy, in the same area, late at night.
If somebody "makes you", so what. Assault is still a crime, no matter what you are wearing. If somebody makes you, you might hear a few snickers or remarks, but not likely. But even gays put up with that. It's not a perfect world, and never will be.
In most cases, if you look reasonably passable, and conduct yourself appropriately, you will have no problems. If you can't stand an occasional stare, I guess you better stay home. No laws are ever going to eliminate that.

What are we seeking? Maybe we should first ask, 'what should we be seeking'.

Lets see... (In no particular order of importance)

Adding gender expresion to any hate crime legislation (Don't start a debate about whether there should be hate crime legislation please, thats a seperate issue. The fact is that where there is such legislation religion is usually covered but gender expression often isn't. Abolishing the lot may be your preferance but where/while it does exist gender expression should be included!)

Employment protection for gender expression especially for transexuals or in home life. People have been fired simply because someone discovered they crossdress at home or when going out even when that has no effect whatsoever at work. People have been fired for transitioning.

Programs to stamp out phobic bullying and violence at schools and in the broader community. There has been enough murders and it's time something was done about it. The number of trans people murdered already this year is absolutely horrific!

Quality support systems to lower the collosal suicide rate amongst transgender people.

Help for oppressed transgender people in other countries. Crossdressers risk abusive prison or execution in some countries!

In countries with public health services ensuring hormones, srs etc are all appropriatly covered.

Transgender people are dissproportionately homeless, this needs to be addressed.

A significant number of trans people around the world are forced into prostitution because of employment discrimination. No matter peoples views on the criminality or regulation of prostitution, providing help for those who want out of it so they have other employment options should be in the list.

Thats a few off the top of my head. Any other suggestions?

[Sally24]

I have to disagree that we aren't making any progress. I don't see that many stories in the news, but sometimes that is a good thing. In New England we are going loud and strong. We have 3 or 4 very active groups. One even meets in a pretty low key restarant and they love them there! I've gone out with a number of girls 2 or 3 of us at a time to malls and stores in the daylight and not had any problems here. Many of us are passable but not all of the time. I think the more people recognize us, the easier it is for us to be out and about.

[LA CINDY LOVE]

I love what Genifer and Jamie said we have more Cd's still in the closet then Cd's who go out and that is so true. As for making progress we have made on our own,........ none the progress that we have is from the fight that the gay community has done, we Cd's are still fighting about pass.


LA CINDY LOVE

[battybattybats]

none the progress that we have is from the fight that the gay community has done, we Cd's are still fighting about pass.

Without the gay communities support crossdressing would still be illegal in many countries!

There have been very good supportive allies for transgender people amongst the gay community.

With their help many discriminations have been overturned. When certain members of the gay rights movement abandoned us the greatest proportion of LGBT groups sided with us!

The gay community is not our enemy but our ally. Sure there are transphobics amongst them just as there are homophobics amongst us. Still the fact is that the gay community has indeed won us progress.

I think we need to get better organised. I think we need to create more safe spaces for people to be free to dress in, anonymously (CD masquerade parties anyone?) for those deeply closeted to help slowly draw people out of the closet.

I think we need ways to make some degree of activism a part of the crossdressing experience. Get CD online stores to donate a small percentage of profit of certain items to TG causes and encourage people to support them. Build strong inclusive tolerant communities in regional centres to help more people have a place to go, people to support them as they come out. Get people to volunteer time as well as money to help things like trans friendly homeless shelters.

Caring, nurturing, giving, supporting, all traditionally feminine qualities. So lets bring them into part of our crossdressing experience for the benefit of ourselves and the community.

[RikkiOfLA]

There have been very good supportive allies for transgender people amongst the gay community.

I think we need to get better organised.

I think we need ways to make some degree of activism a part of the crossdressing experience.

I agree! Well said, sister!

Blessings,
Rikki Chunn

[Kimmie]

In Washington DC you will find many congressional staffers in their 20's, not so much in their 30's. The energy and blind passion needed to engage in political activism is often found amongst the youth. People become more synical with politics as they get older.

Caught cross-dressing can be political suicide for any college aged kid interested in a future run for office. But this is not as damaging for the behind the scenes guys and lobbiests. The real movers, shakers and money makers.

Lets face it cross dressing can be very expensive and can be quite intimidating. Might I suggest creating scolarships for makeovers and trips en femme for college age CD's who have an interest in experimenting with a political carrear REGARDLESS OF PARTY AFFILIATION and at any level. Local state, or federal, with the intent to infilitrate the system, and offering a network of business contacts for them, in case they were to be discovered and would need a financial safety net.

[victoriamwilliams1]

My .02 cents!

As stated, it is hard to place us in the minds of the people and it gets kind of confusing. Now if Oprah covers our community then mind could change if it is covered correctly.

[Vivian Best]

I think part of our problem with society is that we have too much to loose! When you say you could loose your family and job if it's found out you are a CDr...that my friends is a large price to pay!

The gays and lesbeins didn't get recognized over night. It took decades and decades. Who among us has the fortitude to step out and say I'm a CDr and I feel good about it and here is what people like me do. We are not perverts, molesters, sexual deviates we are just men that prefers women's clothing. We feel we have a right to choose to dress the way we want. As does any other citizen of this world.

Things like that are going to have to happen over and over and over again until it is assimilated in to the consciousness of everyone that there is nothing to fear from us. We are normal just like everyone else. Who will our champion be?

[KateSpade83]

They made it illegal to discriminate against gays in Illinois, but I still got discriminated at Pentair. 5 months into the contract to perm job they said they wanted to make me permanent but the buyout was expensive. Then they find out "I'm gay" [only crossdress] and then they restructure me out of my job. And if I sued I could be blacklisted, but my recruiter was good to me and I didn't want to offend him.

Now I look for jobs nationwide instead of the discriminatory ones in Chicago. Lost many jobs in Chicago when they found out, and I typically run into a low life factory worker who wants to bring me down with gay gossip. That's why my current NASA job is awesome! No factory workers here, and actually they have one employee who had a sex change to be female. Maybe Gov jobs are protected?

[Jamie001]

To answer the question in your last sentence, "who will our champion be?".

There is one and only one answer. If we are to make any progress it has to be "OURSELVES". We have to get the heck out of the closet and be proud of who we are and what we wear. Until then, we will not make much progress.

Also, we need to realize that most of the fear is in our own minds. Another thing is that if we loose any friends, then they were never real friends to begin with and we are much better off without them!!

:2c: Jamie



I think part of our problem with society is that we have too much to loose! When you say you could loose your family and job if it's found out you are a CDr...that my friends is a large price to pay!

The gays and lesbeins didn't get recognized over night. It took decades and decades. Who among us has the fortitude to step out and say I'm a CDr and I feel good about it and here is what people like me do. We are not perverts, molesters, sexual deviates we are just men that prefers women's clothing. We feel we have a right to choose to dress the way we want. As does any other citizen of this world.

Things like that are going to have to happen over and over and over again until it is assimilated in to the consciousness of everyone that there is nothing to fear from us. We are normal just like everyone else. Who will our champion be?

[JoAnnDallas]

Reading about the anti-discrimination law that was passed back in 2001 here in Dallas, TX. I found that it was the GLB community that fought the hardest and loudest to get the T community included in the final draft of the law. If the Dallas T community had tried just on their own, it would not have happened. The GLB community is very good to us here in DFW.

[CaptLex]

Now if Oprah covers our community then mind could change if it is covered correctly.
That's what I thought when she had the pregnant transman on, but all that did was stir up a hornet's nest of hatred with her viewers. :doh:

[Kimberly Kael]

I see many of the obvious reasons have been raised and discussed, and I can't disagree with any of them. While we have benefited tremendously from the collective GLBT movement there's simply no way we can stay out of sight and hope someone else will fight for the kind of recognition and rights we deserve. We got a free ride this far at someone else's risk and while their sacrifice has brought us this far it's time to do our piece and not forget the debt of gratitude we owe.

Quite simply: more of us need to be out giving society a positive impression of what it means to be transgendered (feel free to pick your favorite term, just avoid the infighting over what exactly they mean and who gets to use what terms.) I've never felt the activist bug before in my life but I feel very strongly about this issue. I've gone from being afraid to really explore my own identity to being out in public in about two years, and I've started outing myself to more and more people I know. It was scary at first but I don't regret a single step so far. Ideally I'd like to be out at work though I'm not setting a timeline for taking that step just yet.

I think one of the challenges we face is that while many gay / lesbian couples had to out themselves to be in public together, TG/CDers face no such hurdles. In fact most of our SOs would probably see being outed as limiting their social opportunities, not expanding them ... and that's presuming your SO knows in the first place! So in this case I believe activism begins at home. If we can't find a way to talk to our partners and build acceptance there, how do we think we'll get society at large to do so?

[battybattybats]

All we have gained could be lost
http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1286028&posted=1#post1286028

I guess there is a new thing for the list i made in my earlier post.

Now we have to fight to keep what we have gained. To keep the options of SRS and hormones.

We now may have to fight for our very feminity and masculinity.

[JoAnnDallas]

My Tri-Ess chapter is doing thier part. We do out-reach at the local colleges, Police and Fire Departments on Transgendered issues. Also we can now get a Texas State ID card with our fem picture on it. Thus I can have my Texas DL with my drab picture and a seperate offcial ID card with my fem picture on it. Can come in handy when traveling en fem, going thru TSA at the airport, checking into a Hotel, entering a casino, and anywhere you need to show offical ID. Not bad price either, since I am 60. It would only cost me $5 and good for rest of my life.

[karla2016]

with you. I have posted a similar thought here on the subject. I dream about a Utopia place where men can wear anything they want without being judged by society. I only have bought clothes from my VS catalogue lately and I have been questioned by friends: Is that a blouse? is that a ladies sweater? is that a female jeans? and they are atonished when I answered them: Yes it is!

[battybattybats]

I'm thinking that what could be really useful is a guide for crossdressers, how to make a difference.

From how to be safer when out, how to come out etc through to how to fight for progress.

My guess is that the average crossdresser is oblivious to many of the issues that effect them and their sisters/brothers nor how to do anything about it.

It could help build community, help make the lives of CDs easier and better and help build the strength and numbers of neccessary activism.

[Kate Simmons]

I agree with what you say in principle Batty but no one is really that altruistic. With mixed agendas and human emotions being what they are, it's very tough to get a group of people organized for a common goal and be totally agreeable on how to proceed. Believe me, I know.

[battybattybats]

I agree with what you say in principle Batty but no one is really that altruistic. With mixed agendas and human emotions being what they are, it's very tough to get a group of people organized for a common goal and be totally agreeable on how to proceed. Believe me, I know.

Those who hate transgender people manage to. Enough to make it hard for us to obtain our rights and tio ensure we keep having to protect them once we get them.

Plenty of people are altruistic (there's been some fascinating studies on it in behavioural psych circles). We may not be able to get everyone together but we might get enough.

There was an interesting article on the radio this morning that altruistic people are healthier, live longer and suffer less depression. Good enough reason as any for us to be more altruistic.

Besides, a lot of us are trauamatised and feel isolated because of the discrimination we have faced. Building ourselves into a more diverse and tolerant community is exactly part of the broader healing we need precisely because it's hard for us because of what we've bee through.

[Joann0830]

I have to say even thou we are not in the limelight of the newspaper, We have made a considerable push in the right direction. Look at the many bills that have been passed inregards to men wearing womans clothes. Look at all of the organizations that we belong too and how many there are and still growing. Also the establishments that have opened the doors to a great many Cross dressing organizations. My Tri Ess group here in New Jersey, we have a store that allows us to shop at a special time so that those who would like to keep their secret. We even have a Wig store that makes a special trip for us and allows us to shop in privacy and also helps us in picking out a style that will suit the person. We even have a church minister come and talk to us and also contacts have been made in hotel chains where we can have our meetings and dont forget our Fashion shows and junkets to places wher we can just be who we really are. There is a club in New York City called Lips which is not in a back room, its right out in the main frame and is on the internet if you would like to see for yourself that has great entertainment by of course some of the most talented CDMs I have ever seen. I guess this is my way of saying we have advanced and I am happy that we are not in the news as we are like everyone and the newspapers like to post the bad things which mean we are not bad. I am sorry if I became Long winded but we have traveled far on the venture of being accepeted. To All you Ladies here and to the founder of this website Thank You for bringing us closer to being reckonized. Love to All you Special Ladies and the supportive Spouses Joann0830 :battingeyelashes::heehee::love:

BTW read some of the posts here from Ladies who prove that we are going places from how to protect ourselves to the Best stores to shop.

[RockerTerri]

Uuurgh...I dont know what to say or how to say it, so i am going to try my best. I am TS, and have known so for years. I am single, i am still in college, i am moving across the country specifically so i can avoid a lot of the issues many TS face, such as worry at work or while out, that someone will see you, discover you, and that your career/marriage/whatever will suffer as a result. I plan to attend school, get a job, get my driver's license, all as Terri. In one crescendo of action, i plan to at last, begin to resolve the pain and grief and angst i have felt for years.

And a lot of us do not have that option. While the life many TS have may not be the life they want, they have things to lose, and those things can well be jeopardized by unwanted publicity. The life they have may not be perfect, but the risk that they may take by striving for their goals may be worse than the rewards. It certainly shouldnt be that way, and unity, publicity, fair representation in the media, are all things we need to make changes happen. Unfortunately, doing this requires people to take risks that many dont want to take....so we have a vicious circle.

If given a chance, would i make my voice heard? I dont know....lets say that all goes as i hope it will, and that i, after going fulltime, or after SRS, have a career, a group of dear friends...a relationship? Would i risk all of that, once i attain it? I dont know. Its easy to say "yeah, i will stand up and fight" right now, because i have nothing to lose atm. In the same vein, if i do attain such a goal, i would want to do everything in my power to ensure other people have the same opportunity. What to DO?

We all know what the right thing to do is. Its just much scarier to do it, than it is to talk about it. We all have different levels of motivation, different drives. If anyone has any ideas, i am all ears.

[emmicd]

Crossdressing for most is done in secret and most crossdressers live "normal" lives with the exception of having a strong desire to dress in female clothes.

Not many publically display this desire.

The only crossdressers that I see in public if they indeed are crossdressers are a small percentage of rockstars.

[battybattybats]

If given a chance, would i make my voice heard? I dont know....lets say that all goes as i hope it will, and that i, after going fulltime, or after SRS, have a career, a group of dear friends...a relationship? Would i risk all of that, once i attain it? I dont know. Its easy to say "yeah, i will stand up and fight" right now, because i have nothing to lose atm. In the same vein, if i do attain such a goal, i would want to do everything in my power to ensure other people have the same opportunity. What to DO?

We all know what the right thing to do is. Its just much scarier to do it, than it is to talk about it. We all have different levels of motivation, different drives. If anyone has any ideas, i am all ears.

Just as those of us completely in the closet there are still ways to help. Donating to advocate groups, signing petitions, everything a non-trans ally or closeted CD can do.

People being out helps, but if you feel you can't do that once you transition there are still ways to help others.. they call it 'going stealth' to leave your trans history behind, so be a women Ninja, a stealth warrior who fights for whats right in secret. :)

[JoAnnDallas]

I have a copy of "How to be a Trans Ally". Don't remember where I got it from, but if anyone would like a copy, PM me with your email address and I will send you a copy.

[kymmieLorain]

I agree that we need to have more rights. the right to wear what ever we want. It is about choices. We have the right to choose were we live, what car we drive, what we eat. Etc but what about our right to wear what we want be it a suit and tie or a dress and heels.
I went to a program at a local community collage where members or Triess discussed CDing. it was quite informative. It may be a start having CD awarness programs to teach the public about CDing.

Kymmie

[Jilmac]

Probably several reasons. Foremost I would say the media. They like to cover stories about the guy trying to bras or something, usually the seedy stuff. The media also likes to cover stories about cd in general, usually negative. For example. "Man pulled over wearing a halter top and high heels." A combination of the weirdo to being mocked. When was the last time you heard about a women getting pulled over wearing jeans and tennis shoes?

Then there is the separation in the cd community. The causal wear jeans to sandals guy, certainly doesn't want to be lumped in the guys who are wearing bras and breast forms.

I'd love to see the cd community get more active politically. But even more than that, I don't wish it was a "cd" thing. It should be an everybody thing. Do you hear from womens cd groups they have the right to wear pants? Certainly not.
I think noname is right about media coverage. A lot of the stories I have seen on the news have focused on the negative aspects of tgism. Also, programs like Jerry Springer which promote sensationalism and buffoonery do nothing to help our cause, or be recognized as real people. When non tg's see these news reports or the sensational programs, most of them can only see us as wierdos or worse yet, perverts.

In Milwaukee, one of the first public festivals is Pridefest. It is held on the shore of Lake Michigan at a dedicated site for all public and ethnic festivals, and welcoms anybody from the LGBT community. The local newspaper has covered Pridefest in the past, and has published photos along with positive stories on some of the tg's in attendance. I have gay and lesbian friends and relatives who have invited me to attend this year's Pridefest. I will consider it an honor and pleasure to attend as Jill and be welcomed as a sister. Luv and :hugs: Jill

[rickie121x]

Implicit in what I have read in this thread: First, there has indeed been a lot of progress. Second, if that progress is slower than that of other subgroups, it is because we ourselves - in the general sense, not those special strong individuals - are so ashamed of our affectation that we are responsible for it continuing to be remain in the shadows of acceptability.

It takes courage and fortitude to bring a minority, be it racial, physical, intellectual, or sexual to the mainstream. That mainstream, motivated by, prejudice, ignorance, and fear is conservative, preservationist, and very powerful.

It will be awhile... I fear, a long while.

Rickie

[flacindycd]

Most major media and society think if you like panties and bras you are some kind of PERVERT!!!
They keep hammering that home...so automatically we are thought of as such...its so darned fustrating!!!!!!!!!
At least thats my take for what its worth.

[LA CINDY LOVE]

For a marred or straight CD to come out of the closet and tell the world he is a cross dresser is a very big risk not only for him but for his family and his job.

The talk around the water cooler at work is hey did you hear about Bob he is gay he like to wear Lady's cloth I bet you he has on some pants and a bra now ( laughing), or you do not get that promotion at work because they now you are cross dresser.\

And what are your Friends wife are saying at the P.T.A meeting did you hear about Nancy husband Bob he is a cross dresser I guess they can know go shopping and wear the same cloths.....I wounder who going to wear the pants in house now ( laughing).

And guess who kids going to have a tough time at school I can hear the kids singing now your daddy wears a dress your daddy wear dress your daddy wears a dress.

Do you still feel it is worth the risk to come.

LA CINDY LOVE

[Jamie001]

It is worth the risk, otherwise progress will never be made. We need to get out there and be proud of who and what we are!



For a marred or straight CD to come out of the closet and tell the world he is a cross dresser is a very big risk not only for him but for his family and his job.

The talk around the water cooler at work is hey did you hear about Bob he is gay he like to wear Lady's cloth I bet you he has on some pants and a bra now ( laughing), or you do not get that promotion at work because they now you are cross dresser.\

And what are your Friends wife are saying at the P.T.A meeting did you hear about Nancy husband Bob he is a cross dresser I guess they can know go shopping and wear the same cloths.....I wounder who going to wear the pants in house now ( laughing).

And guess who kids going to have a tough time at school I can hear the kids singing now your daddy wears a dress your daddy wear dress your daddy wears a dress.

Do you still feel it is worth the risk to come.

LA CINDY LOVE

[Valeria]

Transguys, yes, but do they actually identify as crossdressers or as transmen? It's been my experience that very few transguys consider themselves crossdressers (not that there's anything wrong with that). :winkp:
All true, but FWIW some drag kings consider themselves butch women, not trans guys.

[Valeria]

The thing is being gay or lesbian or bisexual is about sexuality.

Being TG is about gender.
Being LGBT is about not being heteronormative.

Gender expression, gender identity, and sexual orientation are all separate elements, and thus being a crossdresser differs from being a trans person or being gay.

But we *all* transgress against society's unwritten rules about gender roles and gendered behavior, and that is why some of them hate us. This is why we are natural allies, and I think it's best to never lose sight of this.

[CaptLex]

All true, but FWIW some drag kings consider themselves butch women, not trans guys.
Maybe Maria was referring to Drag Kings, but she didn't say that so I don't know. :idontknow:

[KarenCDFL]

I guess it is the outward appearance.

Gay men and women still look like men and women.

And CD's well thats the issue.

There is an old story about a group of scientists who dyed a monkey green and put it back with the group he was born and lived with.

The rest of the group attacked him and tried to tear him apart for looking different.

I guess humans are not much better.

[CLARRISA]

I wish there was some kind of femme day thing where its like you'd feel the odd one out if never dressed up..can you imagine it "look at him, he's still wearing mens clothes what an idiot, doesn't he know its femme day."..It would be so nice just to go out dressed without this awesome dread feeling of being "caught out"