Job application. Do I or don't I

[MonaSmith]

Hi all,

OK, so I am sitting here with a job application form in front of me and I'm after a few opinions.

The job is a permanent position in the Home Office, where I am currently working as agency staff. The job itself isn't a problem, I have been doing it for just over a year, the problem is the application form.

As part of the Equal opportunities scheme there is a little questionaire in the back, the usual, race, religion, age, gender thing. There is also a little box headed GENDER IDENTITY and under it it says "If you identify as transexual or transgender (in that you have effected a permanent change of gender identity) or as an intersex, which group do you identify with?" Then there are three tick boxes: Transexual, Transgender, Intersex.

As some of you know, I am out to a few, if not most (office gossip spreads fast where I work), people at work, including my manager and her manager. I wear mascara on a daily basis (which I thought was quite subtle and unnoticed until yesterday, but that's another story) and always have my nails painted, and quite frankly am not exactly masculine in my mannerisms.

So do I tick the box, and make it official? I don't think that it will make any difference to my job prospects as the Government is very (over?) sensitive to 'diversity issues'. I'm just not sure about the "in that you have effected a permanent change" bit. What the hell does that mean? I pluck my eyebrows but they do keep trying to grow back!!! Do I have to chop something off to be transgendered?

Any ideas, thoughts, insults, jokes (you know that you want to Julie) to help a girl out?

Thanks

Mona xx.

[Tristen Cox]

I would say intersex(I think). "in that you have effected a permanent change" sounds like they mean are you post op and had your physical body altered permanently. Being truthful you can't really say that you have done that yet. Just my thoughts on the issue. Yeah I know shut up Tristen ;)

[obsessedwithpantyhose]

Mona i think u should check the box that follows how ur heart thinks and feels :D

[Stephanie Brooks]

I'm just not sure about the "in that you have effected a permanent change" bit. What the hell does that mean? I pluck my eyebrows but they do keep trying to grow back!!! Do I have to chop something off to be transgendered?

Hi Mona!

IANAL... or in this case, IANAB...

[I Am Not A Lawyer/Barrister]

In the US, this could imply that you are genetically of one sex but have legally changed your gender to that opposite your biological sex. For the transsexual, this would probably be in a transitioning period. For a transgender (transgenderist), there is no physical change forthcoming.

My guess is that unless you will be working as a woman and expect to be fully treated as a woman - as in using the women's rest room / loo / toilet - you probably shouldn't check the box.

You could contact your human resources people and ask them.

Just my thoughts. Hope this helps!

[MonaSmith]

Hi girls, thanks for the input.

The terminology might be different over there, but here I think intersexed means actual genetic crossgendering (like XY women), I'm not certain though.

It is indeed a puzzler. I mean I am transgendered by MY definition of the term, but I'm not sure if I am by theirs?

Mona xx.

[SissyPanties]

I think I would agree with Stephanie. I probably wouldn't check anything. Of course, you could always ask human resources. If you plan to go to work crossdressed, I would definitely ask. They could fire you if they think you lied on this section of the form.

[tgirlkari]

I think it would be best to go to the Human resources dept and ask them. If you wear mascara and painted nails in a office they already know dear.

[Stephanie Brooks]

I didn't even address intersex as I figured that was pretty well understood. Oops!

Here's a link to the Intersex Society of America, fwiw:

http://www.isna.org/

Again I think the intersex "option" on the form is to clarify an individual's gender to the organization.

[Stephanie Brooks]

On "transgender", I don't know how it is in the UK, but probably 8 - 10 years ago in the US some individuals identified as "transgenderist". These were people who wanted to live in the gender opposite their sex WITHOUT having SRS. It was a legal status. It was and is a confusing term, given that "transgender" is typically used to denote all transgendered people, and the other terms denote subsets.

http://www.firelily.com/gender/gianna/transgenderists.html

[Mia001]

Hi,

I don't think they want to know if you wear makeup or nail polish. I think they areasking if you on the road to becoming a woman. Have you been taking hormones, living as a woman, had surgery to change your gender? That kind of thing.

If you've started down that road it would probably be best to tick the box and tell them. If you haven't started down that road or don't intend to then no.

Mascara and nail polish aren't permanent. That's not what they're asking for. I don't think they care if you cross dress at home. If you intend to dress as a woman at work then that's another matter.

Hope this helps,

Mark.

[MonaSmith]

Thanks girls,

I have pretty much decided to talk to my manager about it on Monday to ask her opinion, but I was just trying to get it straight in my head.

Stephanie, thanks for all the info, it is a lot more complicated than I thought.

Marko, I am just starting out on the road, I'm not sure how far I am going to take it yet, but I know that I am not just in it for the 'weekend dressing' It will get more obvious as I progress. the nails and mascara are just small, comfortable steps, I have strides to take before I have finished.

Mona xx

[Sharon]

Mona,
I think your decision to speak to your manager is a good one. You may also want to discuss this with the head of the Human Resources Dept. Since you're already open about yourself at your job, it should be relatively painles to at least inquire about this.
Good luck and I wish all the best for you!

[Wendy me]

i would say inter sexed , but ask them to be shure.... nouthing is ever just easy is it?????????

[carolynhcd]

Given that you think that the Government might be overly concerned with diversity, I think you should tick the box that most guarantees your FUTURE freedom. It shouldn't then matter what you choose to progress to, as no one can dictate how fast any transition should be. In the meantime, it would allow you to wear anything you fancied without worry of repercussions and to use whichever loo was appropriate to your choice of dress that day. I wish you all the best Mona; you are one pretty girl.

[MonaSmith]

Thank you all for your comments and support, I really do appreciate it.

I'm going to play it by ear I think. I am inclined to tick the transgender box, as that is what I am, and it would, as carolyn says (thank you hon), cover me for whatever I decide in the future. Why can't this stuff be more black and white? If I'm not sure what I am/where I am going, how are they supposed to legislate to prevent discrimination against me? We are all in a very confused state.

Mona. xx.

[Mandy Salamander]

Mona, I do believe you're making the right decision, I only wish I could have that decision to make, if I were outed at work, would be in more ways than one. I dress 90% time out of office but don't really know how far I'll go, I'd check transgendered box with pride if only given choice, but is wise to consult others, get opinions first. Also please see thread I'll be leaving soon about job, I've also had a situation and would like to know what others think.

[Jeannie9]

Hello Mona,

If you are part of a union I would strongly recommend that you talk with a shop steward to find out more about EE (Employment Equity) and how it applies in your workplace i.e. disclosure, recourse etc...

If you are a member I'm positive that you will get that answer that you are looking for.

Good luck,

Jeannie

[Sweet Jeanette]

Yeah!-------I have a thought!---Do you want the job?------If so, then LIE LIKE HELL!-------Go with the flow!---Do you like to eat?, ---& pay the mortgage, and the car payment,--(have a house, and a car to drive?)-----"feed your kiddies?---etc?------Then feed the employers what they want to hear!---NOT, what you think is right!----Weather you know it or not, the workplace is STILL ruled by males, and their male values!---Discrimination is STILL rampant out there!---I dont care HOW MANY laws have been passed!!!----Do this, and you will SURVIVE!---To give in to your ideals, and to put them on paper, is only another way to cut your own throat!------I KNOW!----I have BEEN there!--------And, ---I Survive!----------Pardon me.--- guess I am too crass, in my own thinking! :)

[Stephanie Brooks]

Yeah!-------I have a thought!---Do you want the job?------If so, then LIE LIKE HELL!-------Go with the flow!---Do you like to eat?, ---& pay the mortgage, and the car payment,--(have a house, and a car to drive?)-----"feed your kiddies?---etc?------Then feed the employers what they want to hear!---NOT, what you think is right!----Weather you know it or not, the workplace is STILL ruled by males, and their male values!---Discrimination is STILL rampant out there!---I dont care HOW MANY laws have been passed!!!----Do this, and you will SURVIVE!---To give in to your ideals, and to put them on paper, is only another way to cut your own throat!------I KNOW!----I have BEEN there!--------And, ---I Survive!----------Pardon me.--- guess I am too crass, in my own thinking! :)
That sounds like selling out to me. It sounds as if you've got some issues. For that I'm sorry. While the world has problems, it's a pretty good place overall.

It also sounds as if you may not have noticed a few things she said. It would appear she's actually fine with the job. Also, the application seems to be inclusive of gender issues; it seems non-discriminatory. Her dilemma is in how to respond.

From Mona's posts here, in other threads, and on another forum site, I'd guess she's doing quite well. She works in an office where she can be accepted while being somewhat androgynous. She's not being oppressed, at least from what I gather.

Frankly, my guess is that the application process for which she has a question is mostly a formality. The gender question - I suspect - is designed to allow for the accommodation of any special needs. It probably also serves to count the number of people who are being accommodated for gender related issues.

[Cathe TV]

I'm afraid I find myself disagreeing with almost everyone. I personally cannot think of a single good thing that would come from even considering checking ANY of the available boxes. Your private life is your business. Consider the possible risks of electing to make your CDing known, as far as security clearences, etc.

I would not worry now about what you "eventually" may decide, e.g. transitioning or SRS. All in good time. And what if you DON'T go further? You are already exposed. What people think they know doesn't mean a thing.

Don't do it.

[Holly]

Mona, I so admire your courage and your conviction. I think you are wise to seek guidance, although seeing someone in HR would be an option I would take a closer look at. Monday should be a rather exciting day for you!

[Elysia]

I’m inclined to agree with Cathe. I think it is wise to be cautions. This is information that once given is out of your hands and it is hard to know what will become of it. It may be different in the UK but here I think checking such a box could be a liability. I can not envision a realistic scenario in which you could be taken to task for not checking a box. Discretion is the better part of valor.

[MonaSmith]

Hi again girls,

I'm sorry that I am not answering individual posts but I am getting a lot more responses than I thought that I would (thank you for that).

I will try and answer a few of the points raised though.

I outed myself at work, on purpose, so that I could express myself more freely and not have to worry about 'letting anything slip'. The anti decrimination laws over here are very, very strongly enforced in the Home Office, it is an advantage to be out at work as it protects me from any discrimination. The HO even have an in-house support group for the transgendered which is accessable to everyone on their intranet. I am NOT going to lose my job over being transgendered.

I'm not part of the union there, as I am currently agency staff, but I am friends with someone on the union board and she has stated that if I had any problems she would go in to bat for me.

Hot Lust walking: Lying on an application form WILL get me fired, being transgendered won't. Being dishonest about who/what I am is not something that I will do anymore. Discrimination is not tolerated in the UK Government for fear of scandal and negative press, they are very hot on it. I'm sorry if your experiences have been different, but I'm not in that position.

Stephanie, again thank you, you've hit the nail firmly on the head. This is about the wording of the form, not about coming out or staying hidden. I am already out/coming out at work.

A lot of you seem to think that I am exposing myself to discrimination by checking the box. I am transgendered, should I go back to hiding it? Tell everyone it was a silly joke and get back in my closet? I might not take it any further, which I doubt, but I will always be transgendered. Isn't this another, admittedly very small and safe, step in the right direction?

I really do appreciate the concern, and I value all the input that you have given me so far.

Thank you

Mona xx.

[Julie York]

I don't think you need to tick any box. It isn't as if you are doing anything that requires a consideration of whether you are transgendered or not...right now. And in the future, should you wish to 'take it further' I am sure you can officially declare yourself AFTER you've got the job and settled in.

(I couldn't think of anything funny. I'll get you next time! :D )



Mascara story? Tell us the mascara story.

[MonaSmith]

Hi Julie,

My thinking is that if I do tick the box, and declare it officially, it gives me a better level of protection at work. It sounds a bit mercenary, I know, but it would give me some 'evidence' of my transgenderism, rather than just word of mouth from my friends and collegues. It would be a purely selfish decision on my part. It was just the way that it was worded that has thrown me a bit.

I'll speak to my manager tomorrow about it and let you all know what happens.

As to the mascara story, it's nothing too amazing. I have been wearing it for a few weeks now, at first quite subtley, but as time goes by, less and less so. Nobody has mentioned it, even among the people that I am not out to. I haven't even noticed any double-takes or curious looks. I suppose it was a bit disappointing really, lol. Anyway, on Friday one of my GG friends emailed me a silly 'how well do you know your friend' questionaire thing. You each have to answer the questions on it, and then swap back and compare. On one of the questions, "Does your friend have any special talents?", she wrote 'putting on mascara so well with those long nails'. It just made my day, is all. She also put that a good nickname for me would be Miss thang, that if we were stranded on a desert Island I would bring my make-up bag, and we both put that our favourite memory of each other was when I showed her my Mona pic for the first time. She also seemed to think that my middle name was Maria, lol.

Mona xx.

[Deidra Cowen]

Good luck with your decision Mona...judging by your posts here I get the idea you are one sharp girl! :cool:

[MonaSmith]

Good luck with your decision Mona...judging by your posts here I get the idea you are one sharp girl! :cool: Thank you Deirdra,

I'm not so sharp, I just talk a lot (once I get going), and as they say in the Army, bullshit baffles brains. ;)

Mona xx.

[Mia001]

Hi,

I think you may have answered the question in your reply to me.

"I am just starting out on the road, I'm not sure how far I am going to take it yet, but I know that I am not just in it for the 'weekend dressing' It will get more obvious as I progress".

It sounds as though you should tick the box and quote yourself if there's a space for more info. They've asked and it applies to you so that would give them an honest answer.

They're taking some kind of positive action at least (for whatever reason, genuine or political). They're making some kind of effort at least and it gives you an opportunity to be yourslef at work. Why not?

Mark.

[DonnaT]

Hi Mona,

"If you identify as transexual or transgender (in that you have effected a permanent change of gender identity) or as an intersex, which group do you identify with?"
You are definitely not intersex (having genitalia of both sexes). Nor have you effected a permanant change in gender identity. That is, you are not portraying a woman (Mona) all the time.

Note that if you checked yes, and there was a dress code, then you could probably be required to dress in your identified gender. You could also probably be required to use the ladies restroom.

As long as management has no problems with your wearing makeup, nailpolish, etc, then there should be no need to check any of the boxes.

Now, if you wanted to dress enfemme, you might want to check transgender.

I like y'alls anti-discrimination policies :D

[MonaSmith]

Thank you Marko, I appreciate your point of view and help.

Donna, I had no intention of ticking intersex, I know enough about that to know that it doesn't apply to me. There is no dress code for the job, so I don't think that I would be 'forced' to dress in female clothes for work, more's the pity, lol. The management are fine so far with the way I look/act at work, but I was just trying to think ahead, who knows what my next step will be or what I will start wearing?

The anti-discimination policies are pretty full on, but I find that 'positive discrimination' is sometimes just as bad as 'negative discrimination'. Having said that, if being a tranny gets me special treatment, I'm going to use it for everything that it's worth, lol.

Mona xx.

[Sweet Jeanette]

Mona------Im sorry to say this, but I have found, in my lifetime, that lying about yourself, in "anything", in order to get ahead, is the way to go!---Maybe your society is different from mine, and they tolerate more, but in mine, even though a lot has changed in 40 years, ------the old attidudes are STILL there!-----They will never change,--not down at the basic level, that is!!!----Apparently, you have never been homeless, or had to find food out of a dumpster.----I have!-----All,---the result of being HONEST with society, weather at a job interview, or anything else.----All it takes, is doing 1-(one) wrong thing, when your a kid, and it will haunt you for the rest of your life!---I have found that moving away & starting a new life, and lying, is the only way to get ahead, and live a (half-decent) life!---And, to be a low-profile type person!--------I know all this sounds very cruddy, but, with me, thats the way it is.---All this started in 1967, ------38 years ago!-----And goes to this day, and beyond!------I surely hope your society IS different!--------I read the others posts, and know that you sort of-already have the job, I wish the best for you.-----Im sorry;---I think I run on too much about myself!-----(Probably just a bit of self-pity creeping in)------Anyway,---Be Careful!

[Elysia]

Mona, you sound like an intelligent person who understands the environment in which you operated and have put a lot of thought into what to do. So, I won’t presume to give advice… I mean any more uninformed advice. What ever you decide I wish the best for you and salute your bravery.

Something that struck me is the tendency of those of us in the US to sound the words of caution. I’m afraid that our environment is less tolerant than your's.
Maybe other would like to comment on the different levels of acceptance in their respective environments… is there already a tread that deals with that?

Hot Lust walking, I understand what you’re saying and I’m wondering which continent you are on.

[Sweet Jeanette]

Mona, you sound like an intelligent person who understands the environment in which you operated and have put a lot of thought into what to do. So, I won’t presume to give advice… I mean any more uninformed advice. What ever you decide I wish the best for you and salute your bravery.

Something that struck me is the tendency of those of us in the US to sound the words of caution. I’m afraid that our environment is less tolerant than your's.
Maybe other would like to comment on the different levels of acceptance in their respective environments… is there already a tread that deals with that?

Hot Lust walking, I understand what you’re saying and I’m wondering which continent you are on.

Same as you.---In the USA---But surrounded by rednecks,-no-necks, and dim-thinkers!------Ugggh!-------Here is the-more info part;---Unfortunately, the "dim-thinkers own most of this town, due in part to cattle, and oil.---Easy, old money, in this part of the country!---This town is anti-progressive.---The city fathers want to "preserve" the town, as it is!---No new Walmart distribution center, no autombile assembly plants, ---things like this!---Nothing that would breathe new life into this town, and give young people jobs!---As a result, our young people graduate High School, and go elsewhere to get jobs, along with their famlies. These purposals have already been nixed by our "fine" city fathers, in the past. The town is dieing, and I cant move, as I am locked into a decent job for at least 10 more years, till retirement.------Like I said,---"Dim Thinkers"!--------Not to mention the attitude on CDs, or Gays!-----Ha!------What a laugh!!!---Around here, if you come out, a bullet or a rope is waiting for you!!!---This is NO joke!---It is REAL!---And, it will happen at night, when no one sees, and if they do;------nothing will be done about it!------Ohhh, what a "fun life" we lead here.

[MonaSmith]

Hi all, thanks for the continuing opinions.

Well, I spoke to my manager today, and we discussed the problem at length. My manager, Pauline, went and discussed it with her manager, and the general concensus was that it would be fine for me to tick the 'transgender' box, and that they would back me if that was what I wanted to do. I talked at length to Pauline, and she said that if she was in my position, that she wouldn't tick any of the boxes, as it is nobody elses business to know. The funny thing is that there are sections for race, religion, gender, age, disability and sexual orientation, and all of those sections have a 'Prefer not to say' box to tick. The gender identity section is the only bit which doesn't have the opt out option, instead the whole section is optional.

I still haven't decided what I should do, but I need to send the application in by the end of the week, so I will make up my mind soon. I'll let you know what I decide. Thank you all again for your help, it has given me a lot to think about.

Hot Lust Walking, I'm sorry that your life has been the way it is, I can understand why you react the way you do. I have been in bad positions throughout my life too, but I refuse to let it keep me down. I am 34 and have only just started to get my life on track, the last year has been the best one that I can remember, and I put it all down to just being myself as much as I can. Lying now would be a betrayal to all the things that I have accomplised in the last 13 months. You say that it worked for you but you don't sound too happy. I am happy. If I get the job I will be happier, but if I don't then I won't be any worse off that I am now. I hope that things improve for you, I really do, but I think that you have to make good things happen and I can't see how you can build good things on a foundation of deceit and lies.

Mona xx.

[Sweet Jeanette]

Im glad that your people think more progressively, than the ones I have run into.--You must be doing something "right", along with the atmosphere you live in and work in.---I am probably just too hard-assed!------And,-No, it hasen't totally worked for me, and I am not happy in the position I am in, and I am too old for jobhunting, and most of the time, my job is easy; only now and then does it get complicated.---It is a "safe" place for a older person that is not rehirable, to stay, but I do not like it.-----I look at it as though it is a prison sentence, and I will be released, at retirement.------or sooner.-----(Light at the end of the tunnel?)-----Anyway, good luck. I wish you well! :)

[DonnaT]

Eeny-meeny-miny-mo, I pick this very one :D

[MonaSmith]

Eeny-meeny-miny-mo, I pick this very one :DLol Donna, it might just come to that.

I spoke to my sister earlier about it. She seemed to think that I should tick the box. In her usual practical way, she thinks that it could be to my advantage, and that hopefully that they are looking to fill some sort of quota of transgendered people, lol.

I'm pretty sure I am going to tick it. I have to send it off tomorrow so I will let you know the final, gripping outcome.

Love Mona xx.

[Sigrid]

Mona,

I didn't really have a definite answer for you (still don't). It really depends on their motivation for asking.

I was talking to a loan agent just this morning. She asked a number of routine questions, then said "you don't have to answer these next two questions; What is your race? What is your gender?". I asked why they bothered to put those questions on the application if they didn't require an answer? She explained that they (the lender) are required by Federal law to at least ask. She said that the Fed uses the information to ensure fair lending practices within the industry.

You're very bright, that's all that should matter.

~Sigrid

[MonaSmith]

Mona,

I didn't really have a definite answer for you (still don't). It really depends on their motivation for asking. It seems that it is for 'diversity monitoring' purposes, in their own words "in order to meet our statutory obligations and to make sure our HR processess are fair for all staff".

Thanks Sigrid,

The saga continues.

Mona xx.

[MonaSmith]

Hiya all,

First I want to thank everyone for their comments and thoughts, it was very enlightening and helpful. Thank you all very much.

Ok so the decision was made, the application has been posted, and my fingers are crossed, which is my excuse for any dodgy spelling.

After much pondering and soul searching I made my decision. I ticked the transgender box and for good measure the bi-sexual box too, I mean, in for a penny, in for a pound.

So there you have it. The end of my dilema and the start of my path on the Home Office career ladder. I'll let you all know what happens next, It should be a few weeks until I hear if I have an interview or not. Then I'll have to decide what to wear. Are flats or heels more professional? ;)

Thanks yet again girls,

Love

Mona xx.

[Stephanie Brooks]

Congratulations! Hope it goes well, Mona.

Flats or heels? Either can be professional. A classic pump can be just fine. You could probably go up to 3"; higher and you'd probably go out of the "professional" category, unless you're petite. Flats should probably also be classically styled.

[MonaSmith]

Hi girls,


Just a quick update, I have heard back and I have my interview next Tuesday. I am absolutely bricking it, but In a week the worst part will be over. I'll let you know how I get on.

Love Mona xx.

[Stephanie Brooks]

Woot woot!!!!! Good luck Mona. Just go and be yourself. You'll do fine!

[MonaSmith]

Thank you honey, but how much of 'myself' should I be? :)

Mona xx.

[Lady Jayne]

Mona, Good luck for tuesday although I don't think you will need it, if you've been doing the job for a year they obviously think your up to it.

xxx Jayne

[MonaSmith]

Mona, Good luck for tuesday although I don't think you will need it, if you've been doing the job for a year they obviously think your up to it.

xxx JayneThank you Jayne, there are a lot of equally experienced people going for it too, so I am not going to get my hopes up too much, but you never know.

Mona xx.

[Stephanie Brooks]

Thank you honey, but how much of 'myself' should I be? :)

Mona xx.
You know, when I wrote my response, I wasn't even thinking about outward appearances. They're interested in seeing if you can do the job, and my sense would be that you want to see if the job is right for you.

Being yourself in this case meant being true to what's inside you.

On your application you've indicated both transgender and bi-sexual boxes. I assume you'll dress professionally, whether en femme, en homme, or androgynously. As long as you don't look as a tart, appearance, gender, and orientation issues will be good for the first two minutes. The rest of the time is what's inside you.

For them: Can you do the job? What kind of a person are you? Will you be able to get along with others in the office? Will you be a disruption to the office? Will you fit in?

For you: Can you do the job? Does it satisfy your needs? Do they seem to be friendly, or does something seem wrong? Are the interviewers decent people? Are they mostly indifferent to your gender and orientation issues? Is their focus in the interview on the job and you as a potential employee, or are they abnormally fixated on how you're dressed? Would you like to see these people evey workday?

In closing, I'll repeat what I said before. Just go and be yourself. You'll do fine!

[susanmaid]

I am sure you will do well. Who knows what you will be asked but one question that is frequently posed is 'what do you cosider your strengths and weaknesses to be'

You might care to think about this.It can be damning for a number of cadidates.

Best wishes, keep us all informed. Susanmaid

[MonaSmith]

Thanks girls, I appreciate the input.

I'm sure that it will be okay, I mean even if I don't get it, I'll be no worse off than I am now, and who knows what will happen if I do get the job.

I'll keep you informed how it all goes.

Thanks again,

Mona xx.

[Tristen Cox]

Best of luck to you Mona :flirt:





http://img68.echo.cx/img68/8863/eyes8ip.gif

[MonaSmith]

Thank you honey, I really appreciate that.

Love Mona xx.

[jo_ann]

gendertalk covered this issue. the host once lied on a job app, and she didn't get the job because they found out she lied "anyone can google a name these days". it's a touchy issue and there really isn't a 100% answer.

[MonaSmith]

Hiya, sorry to be resurrecting the thread yet again, but I just wanted to update you all.

Today I had my interview!!!! I was dressed up smart, which for me is a very uncomfortable thing, boys clothes are rubbish!!! I wore a nice pink tie, which made me feel a bit better, but I was very self-conscious. I toned the make-up right down to just a hint of mascara and painted my nails with clear varnish. Apart from my over-plucked eyebrows I could easily be mistaken for a man. :D

The interview itself was mercifully short and, luckily, quite sweet. I was 'done' by two ladies who were very nice, laughed at my jokes and asked me easy questions that I could actually answer. I was a bit dry in the mouth but managed to talk away quite happily. I think it went well. I certainly feel happy about the way it all went. I will probably find out if I got it at the end of the month, when I do find out, good or bad, I'll let you all know.

Thank you for your help getting me through all this I appreciate all the kind words and de-stressing that I've received since, well since joining the forum really.

Thank you

Mona xx.

[Stephanie Brooks]

Hi Mona!

Sounds as if things went very well. Yes, time will tell. Good luck and hope you get an offer!

*BIG WARM HUGGLES*

[Linda-x]

Sounds like you did just fine. Now get back to being Mona !!!

[MonaSmith]

Thanks Stephanie,

The worst bit is over (from my point of view), so now it is in the hands of fate (crosses fingers, touches wood, avoids stepping on the cracks in the pavement).

Love Mona xx.

[MonaSmith]

Sounds like you did just fine. Now get back to being Mona !!!Lol, way ahead of you Linda, as soon as I got home,the boy stuff was gone. The pink tie was nice but not nice enough!! Back in my cropped trousers and fitted t-shirt and feeling much better, thank you, and I am feeling a lot less stressed out than I have been for the past week or so.

Love Mona xx.

[Priscilla1018]

Hi Mona,

Sounds like things went well and you can dress how you wish now.We'll be keeping our fingers crossed for you also.

[MonaSmith]

Thank you Priscilla, I appreciate that. :)

Love Mona xx.

[Julie York]

Pink tie?

You did wear red shoes right. After all you taught me. Or should it be pink shoes?


I forget.

[MonaSmith]

Pink tie?

You did wear red shoes right. After all you taught me. Or should it be pink shoes?


I forget.Honey, you match your shoes to your legs, so it is black shoes and trousers, NO RED!!!!!! White shirt, pink tie, it's not rocket science.

Love Mona x.

[Julie York]

Oh god.
So NOW I have to find pale white hairy shoes?


Is there no end to it.

[MonaSmith]

Oh god.
So NOW I have to find pale white hairy shoes?


Is there no end to it.Lol, you know what I mean silly girl, and anyway ewwwwwwwwwwww hairy legs!!!!!!!!!

Mona x.

[DonnaT]

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/23_29_107v.gif Good luck Mona, though I'm sure you don't need it.

[Tristen Cox]

Hiya, sorry to be resurrecting the thread yet again, but I just wanted to update you all.

Today I had my interview!!!! I was dressed up smart, which for me is a very uncomfortable thing, boys clothes are rubbish!!! I wore a nice pink tie, which made me feel a bit better, but I was very self-conscious. I toned the make-up right down to just a hint of mascara and painted my nails with clear varnish. Apart from my over-plucked eyebrows I could easily be mistaken for a man. :D

The interview itself was mercifully short and, luckily, quite sweet. I was 'done' by two ladies who were very nice, laughed at my jokes and asked me easy questions that I could actually answer. I was a bit dry in the mouth but managed to talk away quite happily. I think it went well. I certainly feel happy about the way it all went. I will probably find out if I got it at the end of the month, when I do find out, good or bad, I'll let you all know.

Thank you for your help getting me through all this I appreciate all the kind words and de-stressing that I've received since, well since joining the forum really.

Thank you

Mona xx.
Sounds good so far. Let us know when you get it. Notice I said when ;)

[Ibuki_Warpetal]

I think it's frickin awesome that it even asks that.
I've never heard of that on an app.

[Holly]

Mona

No matter how the interview comes out, I'm sure that you'll make the best pf it. Hey, I have an idea... WE could hire you as our manager in charge of style and class!

[susanmaid]

I can well underarestand you are feeling less stressed;now you can relax a bit and be yourself. Take care and let us know the outcome in due course.Best wishes Susanmaid

[Mia001]

Hi Mona,

Firstly, good luck.

If the two women were chatting and joking with you then you obviously had a rapport with them straight away which is excellent. It sounds like you were a good candidate and they'll probably remember you as being open and friendly.

Fingers crossed for you.

Mark.

[MonaSmith]

Hiya,

Thank you Donna, I'll take all the extra help I can get at the moment :D

Tristen, I wish I had half of your confidence, thanks honey.

Ibuki (can I call you Ibuki?) It came as a shock to me too, but It can only mean that we're heading in the right direction, right?

Ahhh, so sweet, thank you loads Holly. :p

Susanmaid, I am almost back to my normal silly self, thank you.

Hi Marko, thank you for the good luck wish. I have spoken to a few others that had interviews for the same positions and I seem to be the most positive about it, I think that I was lucky to get the interviewers that I did, I usually click with women much faster than with men, can't think why, and I think that it helped me to relax and be myself a bit more, if that is a good thing!!

I'll keep you all informed as I hear stuff.

Thank you all

Mona xx.

[Rachel_740]

Hi all,

OK, so I am sitting here with a job application form in front of me and I'm after a few opinions.

The job is a permanent position in the Home Office, where I am currently working as agency staff. The job itself isn't a problem, I have been doing it for just over a year, the problem is the application form.

As part of the Equal opportunities scheme there is a little questionaire in the back, the usual, race, religion, age, gender thing. There is also a little box headed GENDER IDENTITY and under it it says "If you identify as transexual or transgender (in that you have effected a permanent change of gender identity) or as an intersex, which group do you identify with?" Then there are three tick boxes: Transexual, Transgender, Intersex.

As some of you know, I am out to a few, if not most (office gossip spreads fast where I work), people at work, including my manager and her manager. I wear mascara on a daily basis (which I thought was quite subtle and unnoticed until yesterday, but that's another story) and always have my nails painted, and quite frankly am not exactly masculine in my mannerisms.

So do I tick the box, and make it official? I don't think that it will make any difference to my job prospects as the Government is very (over?) sensitive to 'diversity issues'. I'm just not sure about the "in that you have effected a permanent change" bit. What the hell does that mean? I pluck my eyebrows but they do keep trying to grow back!!! Do I have to chop something off to be transgendered?

Any ideas, thoughts, insults, jokes (you know that you want to Julie) to help a girl out?

Thanks

Mona xx.

Mona,

I would read the permanent change bit as you HAVE transitioned.

Knowing the way society and our legal system here in the UK is getting like, you would probably be very well advised to tick the box because you will probably make it to the top in a matter of a year or two, cos they'll be scared that you'll take them to a tribunal then the eurpean court of human rights if you don't make the top!!!!!!!

Forever the optimist ;)

Anne

[MonaSmith]

Mona,

I would read the permanent change bit as you HAVE transitioned.

Knowing the way society and our legal system here in the UK is getting like, you would probably be very well advised to tick the box because you will probably make it to the top in a matter of a year or two, cos they'll be scared that you'll take them to a tribunal then the eurpean court of human rights if you don't make the top!!!!!!!

Forever the optimist ;)

AnneThe box is ticked, the dice are thrown. I hope that you are right honey :D . I wonder if I could go all the way up to Queen?

Mona xx.

[MonaSmith]

Hi again ladies,

Had a lousy, miserable day at work today, so much so that my manager practically ordered me to go home early, and told me to go shopping on the way home and buy myself something pretty to cheer myself up (I'm wearing my new earings as I type this). When I got home I found a letter. It reads:

"Thank you for attending an interview for the above post. I am very pleased to inform you that you have been recommended for the appointment. This is subject to the satisfactory completion of the pre-appointment enquiries which will be undertaken by the Immigration and Nationality Directorate (IND)

Your application details have now been passed to the IND. They will be in touch with you as soon as possible, to confirm whether they are able to offer you employment."

There you go then, another step closer to my goal, WORLD DOMINATION!!!!! MWAHAHA HAHAHA(breath)HAHAHAHA!!!!!

Love Mona xx

[Stephanie Brooks]

Whoa whoa whoa!!!!!!!!!! Yay Mona!!!!!!! Congratulations!!!!!!!!!

Enjoy the weekend.

[Julie]

Congratulations Mona this is wonderful news I hope all the final details are completed quickly.

Must be something in the air as I too had a rotten day at work, my employers though are not the type to say take the rest of the day off. :mad:

~Julie~

[Sharon]

Very cool, Mona! Congratulations, but I'll continue to keep my fingers crossed for you. :)

[MonaSmith]

Thank you Stephanie and Julie, I'm not quite there yet but it is soooo close that I can taste it, still not over the final hurdle yet though.

My fingers are cramping as they've been crossed so long.

mona xx.

[MonaSmith]

Very cool, Mona! Congratulations, but I'll continue to keep my fingers crossed for you. :)Thank you Sharon, I still need a little bit more luck, so keep them crossed for me a bit longer :D

Mona xx

[Tamara Croft]

There you go then, another step closer to my goal, WORLD DOMINATION!!!!! MWAHAHA HAHAHA(breath)HAHAHAHA!!!!!

Can't you just taste the evilness in that laugh :evilbegon Congrats to you sweetie :D I hope you get over that final hurdle......

...and STOP doing that with your fingers!!!!!!!!! oh wait.... wrong thread :p

[MonaSmith]

Can't you just taste the evilness in that laugh :evilbegon Congrats to you sweetie :D I hope you get over that final hurdle......

...and STOP doing that with your fingers!!!!!!!!! oh wait.... wrong thread :p Thank you my honey,

EVIL??? ME???? Takes one to know one sweetie.

Yes, yes, bad for the circulation, but crossing your fingers looks sooooo femme!!! :rolleyes:

Love Mona x.

[Tristen Cox]

Good, excellent news. I'm glad it's going good so far. I'll cross my fingers, hell I'll just go crossdress for you. Maybe that will help? :strugglin

[Stephanie Brooks]

Good, excellent news. I'm glad it's going good so far. I'll cross my fingers, hell I'll just go crossdress for you. Maybe that will help? :strugglin
Good idea! Maybe if we all crossdress, it will help. And you know, if it doesn't help, well, we'll have fun anyway. :D

[MonaSmith]

Thanks Tristen,

Yeah, it certainly couldn't hurt to try. I suggest a mass crossdress for luck, I'm free on Sunday, anyone else? Lol.

Mona xx.

[JocelynG]

I will be dressing Sunday Mona so I'll support ya

[MonaSmith]

I will be dressing Sunday Mona so I'll support yathank you Joycediane, lol, maybe I should get some badges made or something? :D

Mona xx

[Tristen Cox]

Sunday it tis' :D

[Priscilla1018]

Congratulations Mona.I am sure you will make it girl,and Sunday it is. :clap:

[Julie York]

I'm working on your false documents as fast as I can!!!!!!!!


Stop PMing me!!!!!


I've hacked the computer. They'll fall for it. Trust me!....

[Julie York]

Oh crap.
I just put your new profile into the International Nechrophiliac Directory.


DON'T PANIC!!

I'll get it right.

[MonaSmith]

Thank you girls,

Hmmm, Julie, maybe I'd be better off without the help?

Thank you all for keeping your dressing crossed for me on Sunday :D

Mona xx.

[Julie York]

Huh!
You try to help out a friend by innocently hacking a computer and entering false personal history...and all you get is abuse.


Oh by the way....Your C.I.A. file is hilarious!!!! You look very cute as a blond......Franchesca!......And actually I know how to shift dodgey Euros so maybe we can do a deal. (Andro Romanov says Hi btw.)

[MonaSmith]

Oh, fine!!

Way to blow a cover Julie, if that is your real name? I'll have to abandon my life as a crossdressing Civil Servant now and start anew in the seedy nightclubs of Prague as an exotic dancer or cabaret singer. Actually, that doesn't sound too bad. :D

Mona x

(stay away from Andro, he cannot be trusted!!! He has a habit of HIJACKING things!!!)

[Julie York]

I would never hijack your thread. (very sorry)

Congratulations on the new job and I do hope it all goes well.










(Moscow Pete says Hi.)

(Camp Natasha wants her wig back.)

(There's a contract out on you in Oslo.)

(FBI Freddie went native nudge nudge.)

[eileen1969]

Hi all,

OK, so I am sitting here with a job application form in front of me and I'm after a few opinions.

The job is a permanent position in the Home Office, where I am currently working as agency staff. The job itself isn't a problem, I have been doing it for just over a year, the problem is the application form.

As part of the Equal opportunities scheme there is a little questionaire in the back, the usual, race, religion, age, gender thing. There is also a little box headed GENDER IDENTITY and under it it says "If you identify as transexual or transgender (in that you have effected a permanent change of gender identity) or as an intersex, which group do you identify with?" Then there are three tick boxes: Transexual, Transgender, Intersex.

just check box ufo! I'm an alien does that matter to you! ;)

As some of you know, I am out to a few, if not most (office gossip spreads fast where I work), people at work, including my manager and her manager. I wear mascara on a daily basis (which I thought was quite subtle and unnoticed until yesterday, but that's another story) and always have my nails painted, and quite frankly am not exactly masculine in my mannerisms.

So do I tick the box, and make it official? I don't think that it will make any difference to my job prospects as the Government is very (over?) sensitive to 'diversity issues'. I'm just not sure about the "in that you have effected a permanent change" bit. What the hell does that mean? I pluck my eyebrows but they do keep trying to grow back!!! Do I have to chop something off to be transgendered?

Any ideas, thoughts, insults, jokes (you know that you want to Julie) to help a girl out?

Thanks

Mona xx.



Just tell them "yup~ I am an alien and check box- ufo! unidentied-female-ohhh!

[MonaSmith]

S'okay honey,

you can hijack it as much as you like, as long as you are having fun. :)

I haven't got the job quite yet though, it could all still go tits-up. :(

Mona x.

[MonaSmith]

Just tell them "yup~ I am an alien and check box- ufo! unidentied-female-ohhh!Lol, I wouldn't be surprised if they had an 'Alien' box to tick, diversity is their big thing at the moment and they don't want to exclude people on the grounds of their planet of birth!!!

Mona xx.

[susanmaid]

Mona, I am delighted to hear your news. My warmest congaulations .I'd dearly love to take you out and buy you something as a little present.I shall really dress in some of my best on Sunday -soft and silky. Hugs Susan xxxxx

[MonaSmith]

Hi there Susan,

Thank you for that, I appreciate it.

I'm a pretty self-sufficient, independant kinda gal though, so no need to take me on a shopping spree, thanks anyway honey.

Mona xx.

[MonaSmith]

Hello,

Once again I am resurrecting this thread, but for the last time I promise:).

Okay so after months of sitting around waiting, I finally have a end to my story, well an end and a beginning really. I have been accepted into the job and start on Monday 24th Oct. I get to stay in the same department, doing the same work, with all my friends. After waiting for months, hearing nothing at all, I got a phonecall and an email out of the blue asking me to start. I had to make sure that my employment agency were okay with it, and they were very cool about the short notice, and so I left work on Friday and a temp and I go back in on Monday as permanent staff.

I can't tell you what a difference this will make to my life. it gives me the stability and security that I have always needed, and gives me a safe place to be while I slowly but surely 'change' and experiment with who I want to be.

I want to thank you all for your support, I had a few dodgy moments there, but my friends came through for me, as always, and kept me positive and hopeful, which is a fairly new thing for me, so thank you, you know who you are and what you did for me :D.

Mona xx

[Adrianne]

mona all the best.

Adrianne.

[Sharon]

Wow, that's wonderful news, Mona. Congratulations and good luck to you.:)

[Katiegirl]

Good luck MonaSmith I hope it works out well for you.

:)

Mind of a Woman, Body of a Man, Life is a Bitch

[KatieZ]

Congratulations Mona

Glad to hear it all worked out.

Hugs

[Holly]

Mona it couldn't happen to a nicer girl! Best wishes in your "new" position.

[Lauren_T]

Hello,

Once again I am resurrecting this thread, but for the last time I promise.
Not a bit of it! Fascinatin', it is... Wouldn't have known your backstory if you hadn't!


I want to thank you all for your support, I had a few dodgy moments there, but my friends came through for me, as always, and kept me positive and hopeful, which is a fairly new thing for me, so thank you, you know who you are and what you did for me.

Mona xxOh, poo... so Julie hacked HMG's computers... anyone could'a done the same... :eek: :p

In all seriousness, though: Fan-tastic! English liberalism and tolerance (no matter how over-the-top it can be at times) comes through again and delivers up another happy ending / beginning...:balloons: :clap: :cheer:

[Rachel Morley]

Congratulations Mona! This is so cool! As you said, you now have the chance to explore your gender identity without the fear of losing your job. Awesome!

Take care

[Odette30UK GG]

This is taken from a web site

'What Intersex Is
2. Intersexed people, to whom the term “hermaphrodites” also refers, are people whose physical sexual differentiation at birth is not typical. This may be the case at the level of the chromosomal pattern of the person, it may be evident in the internal structures of reproduction, in the make-up of the sex-glands, in the balance of sex-hormones, or in the structure of the external sex-organs. In many but not all cases, the external sex organs are ambiguous. There are only two checkboxes, “male” and “female”, in most Western-based legal frameworks, only one of which can be ticked off
however ambiguous the sexual anatomy. Although a sex description as male or as female is generally given to intersexed infants at or some time after birth, the experience of intersexed activists shows that the gender assignation is often arbitrary and is at best a judicious guess at the optimal gender of rearing which may be proven wrong in time.'

If you want to read the full bill on this:
Engender - Intersex (http://www.engender.org.za/publications/judicialmatters.html)
It does go into more detail.

Hope this helps

Hugs
Odette
XxxxxX

[MonaSmith]

Hi all,

Thanks so much girls, I thought that I would just quietly bookend my thread with the outcome of my odyssey into the world of govermental employment (emphasis on the mental!!), but your lovely comments are much appreciated.

Hopefully now my real fun starts!!

Love Mona xx